27 Jun 2004 21:19:38
Padz
Swinging moorings

Just about to move boat onto swinger on medway which I have'nt done
before. Any top tips?? I've got ring ontop of buoy shackled with
monel siezing wire into large galv swivle to 2 lines with
thimbles - boat. Lines have reinforced pvc sleeve where they
go through twin bow roller. I thought of adding a steel wire rope
loop to the buoy to making picking up easier with a boathook/carbine
hook onto a line round a block at bow back to cockpit as I do a lot of
singlehanding.
Any tips / potential problems??

TIA

Paddy


27 Jun 2004 22:59:04
Steve Firth
Re: Swinging moorings

Padz <[email protected] > wrote:

> Any tips / potential problems??

I'd make one of the mooring lines longer than the other so that the
longer one becomes a safety line (i.e. it's not under load unless the
other line parts).

When mooring single handed, you may find it easier to make fast to the
buoy temporarily using a line from a stern cleat. It's a piece of cake
to thread a line through the eye on the buoy and make it fast. You then
have all the time in the world to sort out your mooring lines.

--
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28 Jun 2004 07:26:34
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <1gg2a14.1gdhqdx16va0swN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk >, Steve Firth
<[email protected] > writes
>Padz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Any tips / potential problems??
>
>I'd make one of the mooring lines longer than the other so that the
>longer one becomes a safety line (i.e. it's not under load unless the
>other line parts).
>
>When mooring single handed, you may find it easier to make fast to the
>buoy temporarily using a line from a stern cleat. It's a piece of cake
>to thread a line through the eye on the buoy and make it fast. You then
>have all the time in the world to sort out your mooring lines.
>

I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.

Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
crew.

As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
chain below the buoy.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


28 Jun 2004 08:40:16
Duncan Heenan
Re: Swinging moorings


"Keith" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In message <1gg2a14.1gdhqdx16va0swN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> <[email protected]> writes
> >Padz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Any tips / potential problems??
> >
> >I'd make one of the mooring lines longer than the other so that the
> >longer one becomes a safety line (i.e. it's not under load unless the
> >other line parts).
> >
> >When mooring single handed, you may find it easier to make fast to the
> >buoy temporarily using a line from a stern cleat. It's a piece of cake
> >to thread a line through the eye on the buoy and make it fast. You then
> >have all the time in the world to sort out your mooring lines.
> >
>
> I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
> leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
> the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
> bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
> over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
> motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
> backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>
> Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
> crew.
>
> As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
> chain below the buoy.
> --
> Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd

It does suffer the danger of the line fouling the propeller if things go
wrong. I usually get by with a Bosco boat hook/line which is designed for
single or short handed use.




28 Jun 2004 10:25:43
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, Duncan Heenan
<[email protected] > writes
>"Keith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> >
>>
>> I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
>> leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
>> the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
>> bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
>> over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
>> motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
>> backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>>
>> Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
>> crew.
>>
>> As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>> chain below the buoy.
>
>It does suffer the danger of the line fouling the propeller if things go
>wrong.

This is true.

Good idea to make the loop too short to reach the prop (if one uses the
bow cleats).
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


28 Jun 2004 12:55:26
Tim W
Re: Swinging moorings


"Padz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Just about to move boat onto swinger ... Any top tips... ring ...ontop of
...shackled ...
> thimbles ...pvc ... picking up ...
> Any tips / potential problems??
>
Sometimes moorings clearly marked 'swinging' are used by couples not fully
participating in the lifestyle. Before you go on board another boat
unsuitably dressed or even undressed make sure that your neighbours really
are swingers. This can save a lot of embarassment.

Tim W




28 Jun 2004 14:25:05
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Keith <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>chain below the buoy.
>--

I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
and just above a swivel.

I had problems because the boat tends to sail around the buoy, so the
lines could get wrapped around the chain. - a number of turns over a
period. When wind and chop came up, the lines didn't always unwrap
themselves. I got out there once after a bad blow and found that the
chain had chewed the lines noticably.

Now I have the chain coming up through the buoy, with two lines
spliced onto the swivel.
One swivel, one shackle, chain through the buoy.

I used to have the safety line a number of meters longer than the main
line, with the slack lightly stitched into a flat loop. The theory was
that if conditions were bad enough to chafe though chafing gear and
line, then the safety line might benefit from more scope and more
stretch. (I had the sea room).
The theoretical benefit was outweighed by the day-to-day
practicalities of handling the loop of slack. If both lines were not
kept together there was a danger (in the case of my mooring location
anyway) of the buoy going between them one or more times, ensuring
that the lines stayed firmly wrapped around the chain. :)

So now the safety line is just marginally longer than the main line.
Brian




28 Jun 2004 15:44:25
Mike
Re: Swinging moorings

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected] >
wrote:


>
>I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
>leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
>the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
>bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
>over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
>motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
>backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>
>Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
>crew.
>

I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.

Another option (depending on your boat) is to reverse up the the buoy
and pick it up from the stern and then sort out the final mooring in a
nice relaxed fasion after a cup of tea or whatever your preferred
drink is!

Mike


28 Jun 2004 17:44:50
PyroJames
Re: Swinging moorings

Mike <[email protected]*nospam*.net.com > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> >I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
> >leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
> >the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
> >bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
> >over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
> >motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
> >backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
> >
> >Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
> >crew.
> >
>
> I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
> quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
> that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
> drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.
>

While I agree that this is an easy option, I don't really like it at all.
Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat speed
and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow? It takes more
practice and boat control but it will benefit you in the end. It is quicker,
it looks smart, it can give you a great deal of satisfaction, and it also
means that when the shit hits the fan for real, you will have a better feel
for the way your boat behaves and a better ability to put it exactly where
you want it.


--
PyroJames
Where I like, when I like, in whatever I like to wear.




28 Jun 2004 18:25:14
Peter Verdon
Re: Swinging moorings

Brian Walsh wrote:
> Keith <[email protected]> wrote:

>>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>>chain below the buoy.

> I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
> and just above a swivel. I had problems because the boat tends to sail
> around the buoy, so the lines could get wrapped around the chain.

Yup. Aren't mooring buoys supposed to have a solid bar (or the chain itself)
come up through the plastic to the ring on top? If so, there doesn't seem
much advantage to attaching the mooring lines below the buoy.

Pete


28 Jun 2004 20:19:45
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, Brian Walsh
<[email protected] > writes
>Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>>chain below the buoy.
>>--
>
>I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
>and just above a swivel.
>
A swivel on the buoy chain?.... Good God!.. what are river authorities
coming to..? Nelson would turn in his grave..

>I had problems because the boat tends to sail around the buoy, so the
>lines could get wrapped around the chain. - a number of turns over a
>period. When wind and chop came up, the lines didn't always unwrap
>themselves. I got out there once after a bad blow and found that the
>chain had chewed the lines noticably.
>
Why? Had you too little slack on the safety line?

Given 3ft of slack on your <safety > line (and allowing the wind/tide to
spin the boat clockwise on every tide.. allow for 3/4inch radius chain
mooring the buoy.. pie arse squired..)... err, where's me calc...

I presumed the OP was looking for advice on a regularly-used mooring.
Did I read it wrong?

>Now I have the chain coming up through the buoy, with two lines
>spliced onto the swivel.
>One swivel, one shackle, chain through the buoy.
>
This sounds, to me, an awful lot of work dragging chains out of murky
depths.

Anchor - > chain -> buoy -> moor. One line on buoy. One safety line on
chain below buoy.

Why do you anchor- > chain-> buoy-> chain -> swivel -> shackle -> moor?
Blurry pub's closing and, with my lot, I'd have mutinying crew on
board..

>I used to have the safety line a number of meters longer than the main
>line, with the slack lightly stitched into a flat loop. The theory was
>that if conditions were bad enough to chafe though chafing gear and
>line, then the safety line might benefit from more scope and more
>stretch. (I had the sea room).

For what lengths of time did you leave your boat without visit? And was
the slack on the safety rope a 'multiple'? Or some other formula? I'd be
interested in feedback on this.

>The theoretical benefit was outweighed by the day-to-day
>practicalities of handling the loop of slack. If both lines were not
>kept together there was a danger (in the case of my mooring location
>anyway) of the buoy going between them one or more times, ensuring
>that the lines stayed firmly wrapped around the chain. :)
>
Erk! Cut the buoy off.. I've got this great set of Kamasa bolt croppers
going cheap.. guaranteed.. good torque, little action.. a wine voucher
from Majestic if you can make them work...

>So now the safety line is just marginally longer than the main line.

<applause >

(Thread drift) - Anyone experienced the RYA chart plotter offer yet?
Early days, I appreciate... only launched in March... sounds remarkably
cheap but I've concerns about upgrade costs every year.. should I stay
with the Euronav scenario?

--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


28 Jun 2004 19:50:15
Barret Bonden
Re: Swinging moorings

no boat hooks to pick up the mooring; use a pickup stick instead ; 3 feet of
fiberlass rod or wood in a float; below the float are weights, and a point
of attachment to lines running back to the top of the mooring float... I
have three feet or so of line with a brass clip hanging from the pick up
stick; this loops thru bowlines on the mooring lines .... I sail up to the
mooring , grab the pickup stick (which is high enough to be at hand level
from the boat) and the rest is easy ..


"Padz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Just about to move boat onto swinger on medway which I have'nt done
> before. Any top tips?? I've got ring ontop of buoy shackled with
> monel siezing wire into large galv swivle to 2 lines with
> thimbles - boat. Lines have reinforced pvc sleeve where they
> go through twin bow roller. I thought of adding a steel wire rope
> loop to the buoy to making picking up easier with a boathook/carbine
> hook onto a line round a block at bow back to cockpit as I do a lot of
> singlehanding.
> Any tips / potential problems??
>
> TIA
>
> Paddy




28 Jun 2004 16:33:53
Dave Skolnick
Re: Swinging moorings

PyroJames wrote:
> Mike <[email protected]*nospam*.net.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat speed
> and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow? It takes more
> practice and boat control but it will benefit you in the end. It is quicker,
> it looks smart, it can give you a great deal of satisfaction, and it also
> means that when the shit hits the fan for real, you will have a better feel
> for the way your boat behaves and a better ability to put it exactly where
> you want it.

I tend to agree, even single-handed. With someone on the bow I try to
put the bowsprit just to one side of the mooring, head to wind. Alone, I
stop a bit ("1 bit = 1.467m" <grin >) past the mooring with the boat
oriented so the bow blows off toward the mooring; that gives me time to
wander up with a boat hook and retrieve the pendant.

dave
--
-----
news_bucket e-mail address goes to a blackhole. Sorry. Send e-mail to
"respond" at the same domain.



28 Jun 2004 21:32:31
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, PyroJames
<[email protected] > writes
>Mike <[email protected]*nospam*.net.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >I recommend the loop method.
>>
>> I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
>> quite a few times -
>
>While I agree that this is an easy option, I don't really like it at all.
>Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat speed
>and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow?

Because what you propound is not the safest option, nor does it give
crew confidence in their own capabilities and experience.

'Gracefulness' has no part in safe, competent skippering. Nor does
taking an unnecessary risk, missing your mark and thumping into some
poor unsuspecting classic which has been lovingly restored over the past
xxx years..

You want gracefulness? The word is conspicuously absent from the RYA
manuals.
Mebbe lessons from Jane Torvil...?

>It takes more
>practice and boat control but it will benefit you in the end. It is quicker,
>it looks smart, it can give you a great deal of satisfaction, and it also
>means that when the shit hits the fan for real, you will have a better feel
>for the way your boat behaves and a better ability to put it exactly where
>you want it.
>

And b*ggers the crew when you're flat out with seasickness. Or a broken
arm. Or a thousand other seemingly insignificant matters which leave you
incapacitated and them, mere shadows in the aura of your greatness, at a
total loss.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


28 Jun 2004 20:23:45
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, Peter Verdon
<[email protected] > writes
>Brian Walsh wrote:
>> Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>>>chain below the buoy.
>
>> I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
>> and just above a swivel. I had problems because the boat tends to sail
>> around the buoy, so the lines could get wrapped around the chain.
>
>Yup. Aren't mooring buoys supposed to have a solid bar (or the chain itself)
>come up through the plastic to the ring on top? If so, there doesn't seem
>much advantage to attaching the mooring lines below the buoy.
>
If they are meant to do this I wish someone would tell the East Coast
harbour authorities..
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


28 Jun 2004 21:13:37
John Wilson
Re: Swinging moorings

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:44:50 +0100, "PyroJames"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>Mike <[email protected]*nospam*.net.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
>> >leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
>> >the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
>> >bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
>> >over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
>> >motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
>> >backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>> >
>> >Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
>> >crew.
>> >
>>
>> I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
>> quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
>> that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
>> drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.
>>
>
>While I agree that this is an easy option, I don't really like it at all.
>Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat speed
>and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow? It takes more
>practice and boat control but it will benefit you in the end. It is quicker,
>it looks smart, it can give you a great deal of satisfaction, and it also
>means that when the shit hits the fan for real, you will have a better feel
>for the way your boat behaves and a better ability to put it exactly where
>you want it.

I agree the described method is a bit iffy....

On some (quite many) modern (ie handles like #@*#) boats stern-to
pickup is virtuially the only option singlehanded in any real wind.
The bow blows off long long before you stop. The same boats however
usually steer very well astern, especially into wind. Motor up to the
mooring from downwind, in astern, and stop when it's just on your
quarter



>PyroJames
>Where I like, when I like, in whatever I like to wear.
>
>

John Wilson
jwilsonNO*[email protected]
Remove characters from e-mail address to reply
www.yachtsnet.co.uk - full service online yacht
brokerage with full details and multiple photos
of all boats. Free classified adverts for small
boats and genuinely useful marine links.


28 Jun 2004 22:24:00
Padz
Re: Swinging moorings

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:55:26 +0100, "Tim W"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Padz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> Just about to move boat onto swinger ... Any top tips... ring ...ontop of
>...shackled ...
>> thimbles ...pvc ... picking up ...
>> Any tips / potential problems??
>>
>Sometimes moorings clearly marked 'swinging' are used by couples not fully
>participating in the lifestyle. Before you go on board another boat
>unsuitably dressed or even undressed make sure that your neighbours really
>are swingers. This can save a lot of embarassment.
>
>Tim W
>
What, you mean there's more than one definition of swinging?? Oh
bugger, after all the mags I've read & god knows how many times that
Louis Theroux video's been played. I'm not even married or anything
but i just thought everyone would converge on the biggest cat and
throw boatkeys in the middle & no-one would notice me sneaking in.
Arithmatic doesn't quite add up but well, you don't always think these
things through, do you.
On the plus side if i was married I'd never get away with a pile of
rope around living room and house smelling of burnt plastic from that
so handy solderer/hot knife rope cutter from maplins. Anyone know a
good website on how to splice multibraid?? One I've just did looks
much too much like arthritus too trust my boat with.

Ta

Paddy




28 Jun 2004 22:05:12
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Peter Verdon <[email protected] > wrote:

>Brian Walsh wrote:
>> Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>>>chain below the buoy.
>
>> I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
>> and just above a swivel. I had problems because the boat tends to sail
>> around the buoy, so the lines could get wrapped around the chain.
>
>Yup. Aren't mooring buoys supposed to have a solid bar (or the chain itself)
>come up through the plastic to the ring on top? If so, there doesn't seem
>much advantage to attaching the mooring lines below the buoy.
>

As I wrote earlier, I now have the lines above the buoy.
I'm doing this not because someone "that's the way it's supposed to
be" but because that's the way that turned out to work best in my
circumstances.

My mooring is exposed than most in my area, so when I first considered
how to set it up I went for overkill. I found a number of US-based
websites that described mooring in extreme-weather exposed coastal
areas.
We don't get a huge number of hurricanes in Ireland (joke) but I
thought that some elements of designs that considered them might be
worth considering.
The purpose of attaching the line below the buoy is that when a surge
occurs, the buoy is pulled under the water earlier than it would be if
it were in direct line. This is meant to add some 'springiness' to the
whole mooring.
Ther's a diagram of the type of arrangement at
http://www.apg.army.mil/SIBO/mooring/mr1view.htm

Perhaps this consideration is why Keith posted :
"As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to
the chain below the buoy." ?



As it happened, the very sort of thing described in
http://www.apg.army.mil/SIBO/mooring/moorpage.htm
happened to me in practice:-

"Since the SIBO moorings are in tidal waters, next to a channel, there
is a current which reverses 4 times a day on the average.
Combine this with varying wind directions, and a moored boat will
usually work its way around the mooring, wrapping the mooring lines
around the chain. If you are unlucky, each line may wrap around in
opposite directions! "

Duh!
Opposite directions. Oh yes. Been there, got the tee-shirt.


So now I take the lines from above the buoy :)



Brian





28 Jun 2004 22:05:26
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Keith <[email protected] > wrote:

>In message <[email protected]>, Brian Walsh
><[email protected]> writes
>>Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>As a matter of principle I always attach my (longer) safety line to the
>>>chain below the buoy.
>>>--
>>
>>I started out with both main and safety lines attached below the buoy,
>>and just above a swivel.
>>
>A swivel on the buoy chain?.... Good God!.. what are river authorities
>coming to..? Nelson would turn in his grave..
>

River? River?
Ya big girl's blouse ya!

When I wrote 'exposed' I meant exposed to a few miles of Southerly
fetch on the SW coast of Ireland. ;)


>>I had problems because the boat tends to sail around the buoy, so the
>>lines could get wrapped around the chain. - a number of turns over a
>>period. When wind and chop came up, the lines didn't always unwrap
>>themselves. I got out there once after a bad blow and found that the
>>chain had chewed the lines noticably.
>>
>Why? Had you too little slack on the safety line?
>
Nope. Because the wrapping happened before the blow set in - and
because the lines were longer than you'd find on a crowded river
mooring.


>Given 3ft of slack on your <safety> line (and allowing the wind/tide to
>spin the boat clockwise on every tide.. allow for 3/4inch radius chain
>mooring the buoy.. pie arse squired..)... err, where's me calc...
>
Yer still in big girl's blouse river mode.
The boat sails all over the place. Wind, tide, eddies, you name it.
See my followup to Peter Verdon's post.

>I presumed the OP was looking for advice on a regularly-used mooring.
>Did I read it wrong?
>
You read his right.
You read mine wrong. Depending on how the butterflies were flapping in
Asia, one day of sailing on the mooring could be enough to produce
some really artistic wrapping.

I can see the mooring from my house. If I'm not sailing on a regular
basis, then it's because it would be suicidal to try and board
something that's dancing like a dolphin in the waves - assuming that I
didn't drown trying to row out to it.

If things look like getting really bad, I can move it to shelter.
There will come a day when the realisation of 'getting really bad'
will come too late.- In which case it's worth considering designing
the mooring for extreme conditions.
A forecast is only someone's best guess.


Brian




28 Jun 2004 23:21:17
Sandy Morton
Re: Swinging moorings

In article <[email protected] >,
Barret Bonden <[email protected] > wrote:
> no boat hooks to pick up the mooring; use a pickup stick instead ;
> 3 feet of fiberlass rod or wood in a float; below the float are
> weights, and a point of attachment to lines running back to the top
> of the mooring float... I have three feet or so of line with a
> brass clip hanging from the pick up stick; this loops thru
> bowlines on the mooring lines .... I sail up to the mooring , grab
> the pickup stick (which is high enough to be at hand level from the
> boat) and the rest is easy ..

We have used a similar arrangement for the last 20 years - works
first time every time and is easy to use if single handed.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net


29 Jun 2004 00:38:24
Peter Verdon
Re: Swinging moorings

Brian Walsh wrote:

> The purpose of attaching the line below the buoy is that when a surge
> occurs, the buoy is pulled under the water earlier than it would be if
> it were in direct line. This is meant to add some 'springiness'

That doesn't seem right to me. If the buoy is in line with the cable, it
would be pulled under with it, earlier than if it were bobbing up above
that line.

Pete


29 Jun 2004 01:02:36
Steve Firth
Re: Swinging moorings

Mike <[email protected]*nospam*.net.com > wrote:

> Another option (depending on your boat) is to reverse up the the buoy
> and pick it up from the stern and then sort out the final mooring in a
> nice relaxed fasion after a cup of tea or whatever your preferred
> drink is!

Oi! I said that!

--
Having problems understanding usenet? Or do you simply need help but
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29 Jun 2004 01:02:37
Steve Firth
Re: Swinging moorings

PyroJames <[email protected] > wrote:

> While I agree that this is an easy option, I don't really like it at all.
> Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat speed
> and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow?

Why not come to position where the buoy is just off the stern by the
helmsman's seat? Then you can lean over and pick up the line at the
stern or thread a line through the eye as I said earlier. This is nice
and easy to do and much, much easier than having to reach down from the
bow (that's a long way to the water on my boat, the stern is much closer
to the oggin.)

--
Having problems understanding usenet? Or do you simply need help but
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29 Jun 2004 06:57:30
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, Brian Walsh
<[email protected] > writes
>Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>
>>A swivel on the buoy chain?.... Good God!.. what are river authorities
>>coming to..? Nelson would turn in his grave..
>
>River? River?
>Ya big girl's blouse ya!
>
<g >

>When I wrote 'exposed' I meant exposed to a few miles of Southerly
>fetch on the SW coast of Ireland. ;)
>
Begorrah...
>
>>>I had problems because the boat tends to sail around the buoy, so the
>>>lines could get wrapped around the chain. - a number of turns over a
>>>period. When wind and chop came up, the lines didn't always unwrap
>>>themselves. I got out there once after a bad blow and found that the
>>>chain had chewed the lines noticably.
>>>
>>Why? Had you too little slack on the safety line?
>>
>Nope. Because the wrapping happened before the blow set in - and
>because the lines were longer than you'd find on a crowded river
>mooring.
>
Hmm... a glimmer of understanding dawns..

>
<...snip... >
>
>If things look like getting really bad, I can move it to shelter.
>There will come a day when the realisation of 'getting really bad'
>will come too late.- In which case it's worth considering designing
>the mooring for extreme conditions.
>A forecast is only someone's best guess.
>
>
Is this your own - private - mooring ?
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


29 Jun 2004 08:58:21
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Keith <[email protected] > wrote:

>>
>>If things look like getting really bad, I can move it to shelter.
>>There will come a day when the realisation of 'getting really bad'
>>will come too late.- In which case it's worth considering designing
>>the mooring for extreme conditions.
>>A forecast is only someone's best guess.
>>
>>
>Is this your own - private - mooring ?
>--

Yes, so I have great scope (!) for 'creativity'.


Brian



29 Jun 2004 08:58:26
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Peter Verdon <[email protected] > wrote:

>Brian Walsh wrote:
>
>> The purpose of attaching the line below the buoy is that when a surge
>> occurs, the buoy is pulled under the water earlier than it would be if
>> it were in direct line. This is meant to add some 'springiness'
>
>That doesn't seem right to me. If the buoy is in line with the cable, it
>would be pulled under with it, earlier than if it were bobbing up above
>that line.
>
>Pete


As I understood the arrangement it develops a reverse catenary near
the top of the anchor to boat chain/line. The effect is only
significant when you have a long line (or storm pennant as the US
sites called it).
The buoy gets pulled under before the wole chain/line becomes close to
bar-taut. This dampens (so to speak) the action.


Someone else can do the maths with carenaries, chain weights, scope
and bouy bouyancy. It's all academic to me now as I take the lines
from the top.


Brian



29 Jun 2004 09:41:20
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

Keith <[email protected] > wrote:

-snip-
>>Now I have the chain coming up through the buoy, with two lines
>>spliced onto the swivel.
>>One swivel, one shackle, chain through the buoy.
>>
>This sounds, to me, an awful lot of work dragging chains out of murky
>depths.
>
>Anchor -> chain -> buoy -> moor. One line on buoy. One safety line on
>chain below buoy.
>
>Why do you anchor-> chain-> buoy-> chain -> swivel -> shackle -> moor?
>Blurry pub's closing and, with my lot, I'd have mutinying crew on
>board..
>

I see your misunderstanding.

The lines are permanantly (annually) spliced into the mooring.
The complete list is:
Anchor - > shackle -> bottom chain -> shackles -> top chain through
buoy - > shackle -> swivel (two which the two lines are spliced)

The lines are picked up, from between the mooring buoy and the punt
(high visibility pickup buoy) and stuck on the cleats. It's as fast at
it can be.

The pickup has to be clean in particular when there's a strong onshore
wind at low springs :)


Question:
Why do _you_ attach the safety line below the buoy?
How far below?
Is this just in case something metal above that point breaks? Or is it
for dampening purposes as I used to have my setup?


Brian



29 Jun 2004 12:28:07
PyroJames
Re: Swinging moorings


Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1gg3rt6.1kbo28d43tnxvN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> PyroJames <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > While I agree that this is an easy option, I don't really like it at
all.
> > Why not do the more gracefull and professional pick up of judging boat
speed
> > and position and come to a stop with the bouy under the bow?
>
> Why not come to position where the buoy is just off the stern by the
> helmsman's seat? Then you can lean over and pick up the line at the
> stern or thread a line through the eye as I said earlier. This is nice
> and easy to do and much, much easier than having to reach down from the
> bow (that's a long way to the water on my boat, the stern is much closer
> to the oggin.)

Because in any breeze or tide you then have to work the boat around
broadside to the tide or wind and the loads are far more than are safe. You
are left with the only option of running a line from the bow to stern and
then letting the boat drop back by a good boat length and then hauling
forwards again. It take time, and in anything of a blow, it's hard work,
especially single handed.


--
PyroJames
I used to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learnt to swim.




30 Jun 2004 01:31:12
Steve Firth
Re: Swinging moorings

PyroJames <[email protected] > wrote:

> Because in any breeze or tide you then have to work the boat around
> broadside to the tide or wind and the loads are far more than are safe. You
> are left with the only option of running a line from the bow to stern and
> then letting the boat drop back by a good boat length and then hauling
> forwards again. It take time, and in anything of a blow, it's hard work,
> especially single handed.

How odd, I simply pick up one of the mooring lines, walk it forward and
drop it over a cleat then let go the stern line. Piece of cake in any
state of wind and tide.

Whereas your preferred method means having to leave the helm, leg it to
the bow then reach down from a height to grab a line before the boat
drifts too far away to do so. I think my way is a tad safer.

--
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30 Jun 2004 06:22:52
Keith
Re: Swinging moorings

In message <[email protected] >, Brian Walsh
<[email protected] > writes
>Keith <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>Why do you anchor-> chain-> buoy-> chain -> swivel -> shackle -> moor?
>>Blurry pub's closing and, with my lot, I'd have mutinying crew on
>>board..
>>
>
>I see your misunderstanding.
>
>The lines are permanantly (annually) spliced into the mooring.
>The complete list is:
>Anchor -> shackle -> bottom chain -> shackles -> top chain through
>buoy -> shackle -> swivel (two which the two lines are spliced)
>
>
>Question:
>Why do _you_ attach the safety line below the buoy?

Because the plastic eyes on top/underneath the buoy are the weakest link
in the system. Should the top eye give way I would be drifting down the
river. Should the bottom eye give way I would suffer the same fate, if
my safety line was attached to the buoy.

>How far below?

About three - five links.

>Is this just in case something metal above that point breaks? Or is it
>for dampening purposes as I used to have my setup?
>
As you rightly state, the river scenario is unlikely to demand the
damping effects that your coastal situation demands. I do it merely for
safety. Belt and braces.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


30 Jun 2004 11:01:49
Alex Nichol
Re: Swinging moorings

Padz wrote:

>Just about to move boat onto swinger on medway which I have'nt done
>before. Any top tips?? I've got ring ontop of buoy shackled with
>monel siezing wire into large galv swivle to 2 lines with
>thimbles - boat.

The way we did it, after several experiments, with a Contessa 32 was:

Chain from swivel on buoy, ending in a loop that would conveniently
drop over foredeck cleat (or bitts or whatever)

A few feet of lightish line from the loop to a floating pickup buoy
with handle that could be caught by boothook

And then a length of anchorplait nylon - stretchy - attached to the
chain to form a bight from just outside the stem down to near the
buoy, so that one actually rode to that with the chain as reserve.
This very effectively gets rid of the snatch when wind against tide
makes things rough. But don't bring such a line over the bow to a
cleat or it will chafe through in nothing flat.

It doees depend a bit on just how leads are designed at and near the
stem


--
Alex Nichol
Bournemouth, U.K.
[email protected]


01 Jul 2004 10:49:59
PyroJames
Re: Swinging moorings


Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1gg635q.yoien09f4pw6N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> PyroJames <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Because in any breeze or tide you then have to work the boat around
> > broadside to the tide or wind and the loads are far more than are safe.
You
> > are left with the only option of running a line from the bow to stern
and
> > then letting the boat drop back by a good boat length and then hauling
> > forwards again. It take time, and in anything of a blow, it's hard work,
> > especially single handed.
>
> How odd, I simply pick up one of the mooring lines, walk it forward and
> drop it over a cleat then let go the stern line. Piece of cake in any
> state of wind and tide.
>
This could only be the case if your second mooring line that you take to the
bow is at least a boat's length longer than the line you have connected at
the stern. That must give you one hell of a swinging circle! Or, the wind
and tide at you mooring is very much less than at mine.

> Whereas your preferred method means having to leave the helm, leg it to
> the bow then reach down from a height to grab a line before the boat
> drifts too far away to do so. I think my way is a tad safer.

It will deoend on the boat to some extent. DW is heavy, and long keeled so
her hold her way and line to the mooring and I move forward while she has
the last of her way on. The mooring line comes on board as I run up the
slack on the line, and then is snubbed off to stop the boat. Drop the loop
over the mooring cleats and all is finished. No spinning on the spot on long
lines, no transfering load from one to another, no dragging a mooring line
up the side deck and passing it around the shrouds. :)


--
PyroJames
If you haven't been thrown out of at least two "Royal" clubs you're not
real sailor.




01 Jul 2004 19:53:49
Ian Johnston
Re: Swinging moorings

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:32:31 UTC, Keith <[email protected] >
wrote:

: You want gracefulness? The word is conspicuously absent from the RYA
: manuals.

Skill. Seamanship. Boathandling ability.

Anyone who cannot make at least a reasonable attempt at rounding up to
a mooring should take lessons.

Ian


02 Jul 2004 10:05:03
Simon Brooke
Re: Swinging moorings

in message <[email protected] >, Mike
('[email protected]*nospam*.net.com') wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
>>leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
>>the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured
>>any bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw
>>this loop over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the
>>'allelujah' motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind
>>floats you backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>>
>>Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
>>crew.
>
> I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
> quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
> that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
> drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.

You must be _completely_ _mad_, and I don't want anyone doing that
anywhere near my mooring. In three knots of tideway it *will* roll over
the top of the bouy, and you'll come drifting back on the boat downtide
of you completely out of control. If you can't pick up your buoy with
your boat hook with the boat stopped first time every time, pay the
extra for a marina berth.

To approach under sail, come up downwind of your mooring with an
appropriate amount of sail set. At the appropriate moment judging wind
and tide, luff up, pick up the boathook, walk forward and pick up the
buoy. If because of weather conditions or wind-against-tide or whatever
else you are not confident of your ability to do this, approach under
motor.

To approach under motor, come up downtide of your mooring, match boat
speed to the speed of the tide so you know at exactly what revs you can
hold station, and then increase revs to something considerably less
than walking pace over the ground. At the appropriate moment put the
motor into neutral, pick up the boathook, walk forward, pick up the
buoy.

Don't ask an inexperienced crew (if you have one) to try to pick up your
mooring, do it yourself.

And if you can't do this reliably, make yourself up a practice buoy with
a little dinghy anchor, some rope and a buoy like _your_ mooring buoy,
take it off somewhere well away from other people's boats, and
practice, practice, practice in different weather and different states
of tide until you can.

My mooring is in a pretty tight packed trot in a fast tideway. I sail a
twenty six foot catamaran, which is not the most manouverable boat in
the world. I usually sail single handed. If I can do it, so can you.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'graveyards are full of indispensable people'



02 Jul 2004 11:48:27
Hugo 'NOx' Tyson
Re: Swinging moorings


[email protected] (Toad of Toad Hall) writes:
> "Steve Brassett" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I've just done Day Skipper, and we did quite a lot of tying
> > up to swinging moorings.
>
> Potential skippers need to be *taught* to tie up to a mooring? Isn't it
> obvious?

Not necessarily. But the examiner needs to *confirm* that they can tie up
to a mooring, no matter how obvious it is.

All I mean is "X is on the syllabus" only implies X is examined, not
necessarily taught in any or all cases.

- Huge


02 Jul 2004 11:57:55
PyroJames
Re: Swinging moorings


Simon Brooke <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> in message <[email protected]>, Mike
> ('[email protected]*nospam*.net.com') wrote:
>

> > I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
> > quite a few times
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As Simon shows below, he and I use boat handling skills to to do clean
simple opick up _every_ time we go sailing. There is a big difference to
doing it now and then when you stop somewhere other than a marina. Yes it
does take a lot of practice, but it is a far superior method, whatever the
RYA say.

> You must be _completely_ _mad_, and I don't want anyone doing that
> anywhere near my mooring. In three knots of tideway it *will* roll over
> the top of the bouy, and you'll come drifting back on the boat downtide
> of you completely out of control. If you can't pick up your buoy with
> your boat hook with the boat stopped first time every time, pay the
> extra for a marina berth.

I agree, because if you miss with your " 'allelujah' motion", you are then
drifting from the bouy in the same manner that Simon or I might be if we
miss, but you have a big bight of rope floating in the water, which you
either have to spend time retriving, or leave in there to wrap around your
prop as you try to sort things out.


--
PyroJames
Surround yourself with all you own ,
Work your fingers to the bone ,
And happiness evades you still .





02 Jul 2004 11:02:50
Ian Johnston
Re: Swinging moorings

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 10:05:03 UTC, Simon Brooke <[email protected] >
wrote:

: You must be _completely_ _mad_, and I don't want anyone doing that
: anywhere near my mooring.

I am not sure if I quite understand what these loopers are talking
about, but if they are really suggesting lassooing the buoy then I
don't thiink I have heard quite such a stupid sailing suggestion for
some time.

Dangerous (let's have lots of sinking rope loops floating around near
the propellor, shall we), complicated (what's so bleeding complicated
about "grab pick up buoy, retrieve mooring, drop over cleat") and
unwise (I've used many moorings where the buoy is only attached to the
mooring by a light line). It sounds like a sort of fudge for people
who can be bothered, or aren't able, to handle their boat competently.
These people should not be playing with moorings and should stick to
marinas.

Yours in tolerance,


Ian
--



02 Jul 2004 11:37:27
Ronald Raygun
Re: Swinging moorings

Ian Johnston wrote:

> I am not sure if I quite understand what these loopers are talking
> about, but if they are really suggesting lassooing the buoy then I
> don't thiink I have heard quite such a stupid sailing suggestion for
> some time.

I'm sure I've seen a similar technique recommended in one of the
boating magazines. A better lassooing method than "casting a net"
is to make up a loop, weighted in the middle by something like an
old shackle, held open using the boathook, so that you have a gaping
D-shaped "mouth" poised to "devour" the buoy. There is no skilful
throwing involved, you just guide it over as you glide past.

> Dangerous (let's have lots of sinking rope loops floating around near
> the propellor, shall we), complicated (what's so bleeding complicated
> about "grab pick up buoy, retrieve mooring, drop over cleat") and
> unwise (I've used many moorings where the buoy is only attached to the
> mooring by a light line). It sounds like a sort of fudge

OK, so it *is* a fudge. But sometimes a fudge is what circumstances
call for. For instance, if using a visitor's mooring where there is
no pick-up buoy at all, no line, no nothing, just a small ring atop
the buoy, and sometimes not even that. Sometimes all there is is the
shackle at the end of the chain which has been passed up through the
middle of the buoy.

Another "for instance" is picking up my own home mooring for the
first time in a season (when it is as bare as I've just described,
and the pickup-gear to be affixed is still aboard my boat). OK, if
I were less lazy I could row out in the tender and prepare the
mooring first, but the tender is also normally with the laid-up boat,
miles from the mooring.

The success of any lassooing operation will depend on the shape and
size of the buoy. A smallish round one (or worse, with a conical
bottom pointing down) will encourage the loop to slip over the top.
Mine, though, is large and cylindrical, and it's extremely unlikely,
unless the loop has failed to sink right arouind the buoy, that the
loop would slip off.



02 Jul 2004 12:00:47
Ian Johnston
Re: Swinging moorings

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 11:37:27 UTC, Ronald Raygun
<[email protected] > wrote:

: Ian Johnston wrote:
:
: > I am not sure if I quite understand what these loopers are talking
: > about, but if they are really suggesting lassooing the buoy then I
: > don't thiink I have heard quite such a stupid sailing suggestion for
: > some time.
:
: I'm sure I've seen a similar technique recommended in one of the
: boating magazines.

I wouldn't be surprised. Lots of marina sailors buy magazines...

: A better lassooing method than "casting a net"
: is to make up a loop, weighted in the middle by something like an
: old shackle, held open using the boathook, so that you have a gaping
: D-shaped "mouth" poised to "devour" the buoy. There is no skilful
: throwing involved, you just guide it over as you glide past.

But it still depends on knowledge of what exactly is under the buoy,
and even on the shape of the underside of the buoy - if it's "pointy"
(technical term) the loop may easily slide off.

:: It sounds like a sort of fudge
:
: OK, so it *is* a fudge. But sometimes a fudge is what circumstances
: call for. For instance, if using a visitor's mooring where there is
: no pick-up buoy at all, no line, no nothing, just a small ring atop
: the buoy, and sometimes not even that. Sometimes all there is is the
: shackle at the end of the chain which has been passed up through the
: middle of the buoy.

And it's when you don't know what's down there that this sort of trick
is daftest, to my mind. I have nothing agaist a good honest piece of
improvisation, but the the suggestion that lassooing buoys is
generally better than learning how to come up to them scares me.

I must be getting old. I've started seeing declining skills
everywhere. One magazine I saw recently implied that sailing up to a
mooring was a highly difficult procedure which should only be
attempted if the engine had failed. Anyone who thiks that shouldn't be
allowed sails.

Harumph.

Ian



02 Jul 2004 14:18:26
Alan Frame
Re: Swinging moorings

Ronald Raygun <[email protected] > wrote:

> Ian Johnston wrote:
[lassooing..buoy]

> > Dangerous (let's have lots of sinking rope loops floating around near
> > the propellor, shall we), complicated (what's so bleeding complicated
> > about "grab pick up buoy, retrieve mooring, drop over cleat") and
> > unwise (I've used many moorings where the buoy is only attached to the
> > mooring by a light line). It sounds like a sort of fudge
>
> OK, so it *is* a fudge. But sometimes a fudge is what circumstances
> call for. For instance, if using a visitor's mooring where there is
> no pick-up buoy at all, no line, no nothing, just a small ring atop
> the buoy, and sometimes not even that. Sometimes all there is is the
> shackle at the end of the chain which has been passed up through the
> middle of the buoy.

I've seen lassooing done[0] by an RYA instructor this way:
(1) Loop of warp attatched to two bow cleats - loop is sufficently short
*not* to reach prop - or even aft end of keel.
(2) Loop dragged in water first to ensure it sinks.
(3) Loop twisted at boat end several times before throwing - after
lassoing, but before the strain comes on, the ends at the boat are
opened out, moving the twists towards the buoy.

OK, this was a <42-foot-Swedish yacht > with a fair freeboard at the bow,
onto a large ring-topped visitors buoy...

... and it was emphasised that this is a 'get stopped by the buoy and
then sort things out later' method.

rgds, Alan
[0] As in, demonstrated; "Here's a trick that you might find handy
someday under certain circumstances" rather than 'taught'.
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5


02 Jul 2004 14:49:02
Tony of Judicious
Re: Swinging moorings

Mike wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
>>leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
>>the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
>>bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
>>over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
>>motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
>>backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
>>
>>Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
>>crew.
>>
>
> I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
> quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
> that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
> drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.
>
> Another option (depending on your boat) is to reverse up the the buoy
> and pick it up from the stern and then sort out the final mooring in a
> nice relaxed fasion after a cup of tea or whatever your preferred
> drink is!
>
> Mike

I use a lightish line fixed to a foredeck cleat and run not through the stem
head but through a fairlead. I approach the buoy not dead upwind, but so
the bows will be blown down onto it. J, being an elderly girl has
realtively modest topsides so this gives plenty of time lean over to get
the line throught the ring, the buoy being pressed against the bows. Get
this line secured. Plenty of time then to rig proper mooring lines. using
the light line to heave the buoy up - saves geting out the dinghy.

Often do this single handed - usually works.

Tell the crew to sit on the foredeck, or stand well clear so you can see the
buoy. They don't nedd to maka a grab for it until the last moment. It
really irritates me when they are laenong over the pulpit obscuring my view
- (tip to potential crew).

Don't like using a boat hook as if I get it wrong, and the bows blow off in
a strongish wind it is not possible to unhook the boat hook, and I don't
have the strength or weight to pull the boat in - boat hook gets dropped.



02 Jul 2004 20:01:08
John Wilson
Re: Swinging moorings

On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:18:26 +0100, [email protected] (Alan Frame)
wrote:

>Ronald Raygun <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ian Johnston wrote:
>[lassooing..buoy]
>
>> > Dangerous (let's have lots of sinking rope loops floating around near
>> > the propellor, shall we), complicated (what's so bleeding complicated
>> > about "grab pick up buoy, retrieve mooring, drop over cleat") and
>> > unwise (I've used many moorings where the buoy is only attached to the
>> > mooring by a light line). It sounds like a sort of fudge
>>
>> OK, so it *is* a fudge. But sometimes a fudge is what circumstances
>> call for. For instance, if using a visitor's mooring where there is
>> no pick-up buoy at all, no line, no nothing, just a small ring atop
>> the buoy, and sometimes not even that. Sometimes all there is is the
>> shackle at the end of the chain which has been passed up through the
>> middle of the buoy.
>
>I've seen lassooing done[0] by an RYA instructor this way:
>(1) Loop of warp attatched to two bow cleats - loop is sufficently short
>*not* to reach prop - or even aft end of keel.
>(2) Loop dragged in water first to ensure it sinks.
>(3) Loop twisted at boat end several times before throwing - after
>lassoing, but before the strain comes on, the ends at the boat are
>opened out, moving the twists towards the buoy.
>
>OK, this was a <42-foot-Swedish yacht> with a fair freeboard at the bow,
>onto a large ring-topped visitors buoy...
>
>... and it was emphasised that this is a 'get stopped by the buoy and
>then sort things out later' method.

I had this shown to me by a crew at the end of a delivery trip, when
the only boathook on the boat we were delivering was very seriously
shorter than the freeboard at the bow.

"We'll run a line back from the bow and I'll put her alongside the
buoy back aft where we can reach" I said.

Putting down the toy boathook the crew said "Just put the bow up by
the buoy - I'll lasso it"

I said something along the lines of "What?"

"Trust me" he said,

I did.

He lassoed the buoy and tidied up later. It was the first time I'd
seen this and whilst there would certainly be circumstances where it
might not be a good idea, it's another weapon in the boathandling
armoury.


>rgds, Alan
>[0] As in, demonstrated; "Here's a trick that you might find handy
>someday under certain circumstances" rather than 'taught'.
>--
>99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
>"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5

John Wilson
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03 Jul 2004 13:30:45
Chris
Re: Swinging moorings


"Tony of Judicious" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Mike wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 07:26:34 +0100, Keith <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I recommend the loop method. Attach a warp by both ends to a cleat,
> >>leaving 10-12ft in between (it's easier if you use opposing cleats on
> >>the bow but stern cleats will work- ensure the loop hasn't captured any
> >>bodywork/stays) Coil the loop equally in both hands then throw this loop
> >>over the buoy, as if casting a fishing net two-handed - the 'allelujah'
> >>motion. Loop lands in water lassoing buoy, tide/wind floats you
> >>backwards, taking up strain. Then sort out mooring lines.
> >>
> >>Saves all the boathook palaver and ideal for solo helm/inexperienced
> >>crew.
> >>
> >
> > I agree - safer and easier - and I've used this method successfully
> > quite a few times - but make sure you throw the loops out wide and
> > that the warp sinks and you give it enough time to sink before you
> > drift back - if it floats it tends to roll over the top of the buoy.
> >
> > Another option (depending on your boat) is to reverse up the the buoy
> > and pick it up from the stern and then sort out the final mooring in a
> > nice relaxed fasion after a cup of tea or whatever your preferred
> > drink is!
> >
> > Mike
>
> I use a lightish line fixed to a foredeck cleat and run not through the
stem
> head but through a fairlead. I approach the buoy not dead upwind, but so
> the bows will be blown down onto it. J, being an elderly girl has
> realtively modest topsides so this gives plenty of time lean over to get
> the line throught the ring, the buoy being pressed against the bows. Get
> this line secured. Plenty of time then to rig proper mooring lines. using
> the light line to heave the buoy up - saves geting out the dinghy.
>
> Often do this single handed - usually works.
>
> Tell the crew to sit on the foredeck, or stand well clear so you can see
the
> buoy. They don't nedd to maka a grab for it until the last moment. It
> really irritates me when they are laenong over the pulpit obscuring my
view
> - (tip to potential crew).
>
> Don't like using a boat hook as if I get it wrong, and the bows blow off
in
> a strongish wind it is not possible to unhook the boat hook, and I don't
> have the strength or weight to pull the boat in - boat hook gets dropped.
>

As someone else has said.
I favour sailing up to my buoy on precisely the same heading that similar
already moored boats are pointing.whilst lying on their buoys. I plan to
lose way and stop the boat at the buoy where she hangs amply long enought to
stroll up and attach to the mooring. I always instruct crew (if any) never
to try to pull reach or strain but simply tell me to go round again for
another try it really is a calm process. If I am in a crowded strange or
difficult situation I will start the engine and leave it ticking over out of
gear ready for immediate deployment if necessary. But I cannot recall having
to use it.
My boat was a 35' grp sloop moderately heavy displacement with low
freeboard.
For my own mooring I used to have a pickup buoy on a short line attached to
the heavy plastic sleeved nylon strop with spliced eye for the foredeck
cleat. The pickup buoy was easy to hook with minimal effort using a light
telescopic boathook.


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03 Jul 2004 18:57:11
Sandy Morton
Re: Swinging moorings

In article <[email protected] >, Chris
<[email protected] > wrote:
> For my own mooring I used to have a pickup buoy on a short line
> attached to the heavy plastic sleeved nylon strop with spliced eye
> for the foredeck cleat. The pickup buoy was easy to hook with
> minimal effort using a light telescopic boathook.

We had a relatively light dan buoy with a fibreglass pole through it
- bright orange flag on top. Bottom was weighted and connected by a
light line to the main mooring.

Picup was easy - and Ar Bata - had a high freeboard - you
sailed/motored up to the mooring, walked forward and picked it up -
no boathook was required and it was visible at all times.

--
A T (Sandy) Morton
on the Bicycle Island
In the Global Village
http://www.millport.net


04 Jul 2004 10:04:47
Brian Walsh
Re: Swinging moorings

"Ian Johnston" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
>And it's when you don't know what's down there that this sort of trick
>is daftest, to my mind. I have nothing agaist a good honest piece of
>improvisation, but the the suggestion that lassooing buoys is
>generally better than learning how to come up to them scares me.
>

For a 'home' buoy, there is no one way of doing things. Everyone wil
work out what's best for their circumstances. This should probably
something that works well when 'circumstances' are at their absolute
worst. For my money, that would be something light that's easily
attached (to), allowing final heavy duty attachment at leisure.

For unknown buoys, the best plan is to have a number of C5 explosive
packages and short timers to hand.
Lob one of these just past the bouy on approach. When judged
correctly, the blast will lift buoy and sufficient chain onto the
foredeck near the cleat/samsonpost. A bonus is that the blast tends to
clean weed and muck off the buoy and chain. A further bonus could be a
number of easily-caught fish.
This does take practice. However, even when executed imperfectly, the
method does afford an opportunity to inspect "what's down there". - In
more ways than one :)


Brian



04 Jul 2004 11:22:52
Ian Johnston
Re: Swinging moorings

On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:04:47 UTC, [email protected] (Brian Walsh)
wrote:

: This does take practice. However, even when executed imperfectly, the
: method does afford an opportunity to inspect "what's down there". - In
: more ways than one :)

So what's wrong with the traditional methods here too? Lob the most
annoying member of the crew overboard, weighted down with a bag of
sugar. In the time it takes for the sugar to dissolve, they can have a
good look at the mooring, then report bag as they float to the
surface. To avoid risk of drowning, seal mouth and nose with Duck Tape
first, of course.

Ian


--



05 Jul 2004 14:46:06
PyroJames
Re: Swinging moorings


John Wilson <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2004 14:18:26 +0100, [email protected] (Alan Frame)
> wrote:

> He lassoed the buoy and tidied up later. It was the first time I'd
> seen this and whilst there would certainly be circumstances where it
> might not be a good idea, it's another weapon in the boathandling
> armoury.

Best argument for a lasso, so far. A good reserve option when all the more
traditional methods won't/aren't likely to work.


--
PyroJames
You're never cold with a pyromaniac.




05 Jul 2004 06:44:03
DannyBoy
Re: Swinging moorings

"Ian Johnston" <[email protected] > wrote in message

> So what's wrong with the traditional methods here too? Lob the most
> annoying member of the crew overboard, weighted down with a bag of
> sugar. In the time it takes for the sugar to dissolve, they can have a
> good look at the mooring, then report bag as they float to the
> surface. To avoid risk of drowning, seal mouth and nose with Duck Tape
> first, of course.

<shock >

They told me I had to go over with the sugar because I was the most
popular!!! Bastards!!!

</shock >