25 Jul 2004 08:34:56
Chris Brady
Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

The Times - Sat 24-7-2004

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1189146,00.html

Britain

July 24, 2004

Monster walls of water that prowl oceans

By Charles Bremner and Nicola Woolcock

Space-based radar discovered ten rogue waves

SAILORS have feared them for centuries and landlubbers dismiss them as
myth. Now rogue waves, monster walls of water weighing millions of
tons, have been given scientific credibility by a European-funded
satellite survey.

In a three-week scan with space-based radar, scientists tracked more
than ten waves of at least 82ft in height as they thundered around the
globe.

"Having proved they exist, in higher numbers than anyone expected, the
next step is to analyse if we can forecast them," said Wolfgang
Rosenthal, a German scientist who headed MaxWave, an EU project
launched in December 2000.

With a mission to discover if freak waves, so big that they can smash
a supertanker or a cruise liner, were real or a figment of the
imagination, MaxWave used two European Space Agency satellites to
sweep the oceans.

They produced 30,000 images of the surface which have been analysed at
the German Aerospace Centre. By coincidence, the satellite scan
covered the South Atlantic in the period when giant waves smashed into
two big cruise liners, the Bremen and the Caledonian Star.

Rogue waves, appearing mysteriously and towering over the tallest
ships, have gripped the imagination since antiquity. In The Perfect
Storm, the 1997 bestseller about a 1991 shipwreck off Massachusetts,
Sebastian Junger talks of the unnegotiable wave. "Typically they are
very steep and have an equally steep trough in front of them — a ‘hole
in the ocean' as witnesses have described it. Ships cannot get their
bows up fast enough, and the ensuing wave will break their back."

Survivors describe the feeling of utter helplessness as a rogue wave
approaches.

Peter Newton, the chief officer of a container ship that was struck by
an 82ft wave in the Great Australian Bight 15 years ago, told The
Times: "That wave still gives me nightmares; I can still see it
coming. It came out of nowhere; we could see it from two miles away.
It crashed across the top of the containers so it was at least 82ft
high.

"There was nothing we could do about it; we did make some attempt to
turn the ship into it but we weren't successful because it crashed
across the front of the ship. It tore away several containers and also
partially tore away a piece of plant machinery which we had to secure
because it was causing structural damage."

The biggest rogue wave on record at more than 110ft was reported in a
Pacific gale by the tanker Ramapo in 1933.

Ship owners, insurers and scientists have taken a recent interest in
such freak waves because of what appear to be mounting sightings and
sinkings that could be linked to climate change.

Rogue waves are seen as a possible cause in many of more than 200
"severe weather" sinkings of supertankers and container ships of more
than 600ft over the past two decades. Offshore platforms have also
been hit.

In 1995, in one of the few previous measurements, the Draupner rig in
the North Sea was hit and badly damaged by a single 85ft wave. The
highest waves around it were measured at 40ft. In the same year, the
captain of the Queen Elizabeth 2 rode out a 95ft rogue wave during a
North Atlantic hurricane. Captain Ronald Warwick described "a great
wall of water ... It looked as if we were going into the White Cliffs
of Dover".

Most vessels and platforms are built to withstand the shock of 50ft
waves. The US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration
defines rogue waves as "unexpectedly high waves, which in some
instances come from a direction different from the predominant waves
in the local area". Europe's MaxWave project was given the job of
recommending changes to ship and platform design.

Susanne Lehner, a marine physics professor at the University of Miami,
who worked on MaxWave, said the satellite surveillance was unique.
"Only radar satellites can provide the truly global data sampling
needed for statistical analysis of the oceans, because they can see
through clouds and darkness."

Ms Lehner is now leading a follow-up project, called WaveAtlas, which
will use the MaxWave images to understand how the waves work. Some
patterns have already been found. The waves are often found where
ordinary waves encounter ocean currents and eddies. The current
concentrates the wave energy like an optical lens, Ms Lehner said.

Concentrations of rogue waves are found in the Agulhas current off
eastern South Africa, and in the North Atlantic Gulf Stream.

However they also show up away from currents, often near weather
fronts and low pressure areas. Steady winds from long-lived storms can
drive a single wave, enlarging it across hundreds of miles.

==============================

The Times - Sat 24-7-2004

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1189139,00.html

Britain

July 24, 2004

Freak conditions that create the 'holes of the sea'
By Nicola Woolcock

FREAK waves normally occur in horrendous weather conditions when
several waves combine to create one of monstrous proportions.

Measuring up to 100ft high and exerting pressure of 100 tonnes per
square metre, rogue waves are virtually impossible to ride over.

Oceanographers believe there are several main causes of the
phenomenon: chance; the wind pushing against a strong current; or a
shallow sea bottom focusing waves on to one spot. But a recently
suggested theory offers an alternative explanation; that they can
steal energy from their neighbours to become towering freak waves.

Wave mathematicians claim that in certain unstable conditions,
adjacent waves shrink while the one at the focus can grow to an
enormous size.

The explanation suggests that there could be two types of waves; the
classical undulating type and ones that can suck up energy from those
around them.

The biggest wave factored into most ship design is smooth, undulating
and 15 metres high. A freak wave is not only far bigger, it is a
near-vertical wall of water which is almost guaranteed to break over
the vessel.

When one of these crashes over a ship, accident investigators have
calculated that it would exert more than six times the pressure that
vessels are designed to withstand.

Extreme waves can form in any ocean but are more likely to occur in
certain areas, although their inpredicability makes them hard to
study.

South Africa is the only place where rogue waves can be anticipated;
they frequently occur off its east coast and freak wave warnings are
given by the country's weather service.

The cause is a strong wind blowing in the opposite direction to the
Agulhas current, which brings two opposing flows together in the
southern Indian Ocean.

Norway is another hotspot because of its shallow sea which focuses
waves into one place. In bad weather the shipping route is altered to
avoid these areas.

Certain parts of the Pacific are also notorious for typhoons whipping
waves up to great heights.

A spokesman for the Southampton Oceanography Centre said: "What causes
freak waves is open to debate, but they usually occur when the wind is
blowing against the current. Mariners refer to them as the holes of
the sea.

"Waves steal energy from each other all the time and freak waves are
an extreme case of that happening. If the theory is correct, freak
waves can just shoot up, seemingly from nowhere in a fairly calm sea.

"In most cases you wouldn't see it coming at all. It's a matter of
being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so it's very hard to
observe them."

Martin Holt, from the Met Office's Ocean Applications Branch, said: "A
freak wave is one that is at least twice the height of those it
surrounds. They are very localised and transitory, but also very
incredibly steep."

Freak waves are different from tsunami and tidal waves, which are
caused when an earthquake or landslide displaces a large volume of
water.

There is growing acceptance of their existence; traditional
oceanography theories claimed that there would hardly ever be waves
higher than 15 metres, and that those of 30 metres would happen only
once in 10,000 years.

And mariners who claimed to have seen them were often accused of being
like anglers describing the "huge fish that got away".

==============================

Graphic at:

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,137924,00.jpg

Save it whilst you can.

==============================


25 Jul 2004 16:54:13
fragged
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

hiya
old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..


fragged

"Chris Brady" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> The Times - Sat 24-7-2004
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1189146,00.html
>
> Britain
>
> July 24, 2004
>
> Monster walls of water that prowl oceans
>
> By Charles Bremner and Nicola Woolcock
>
> Space-based radar discovered ten rogue waves
>
> SAILORS have feared them for centuries and landlubbers dismiss them as
> myth. Now rogue waves, monster walls of water weighing millions of
> tons, have been given scientific credibility by a European-funded
> satellite survey.
>
> In a three-week scan with space-based radar, scientists tracked more
> than ten waves of at least 82ft in height as they thundered around the
> globe.
>
> "Having proved they exist, in higher numbers than anyone expected, the
> next step is to analyse if we can forecast them," said Wolfgang
> Rosenthal, a German scientist who headed MaxWave, an EU project
> launched in December 2000.
>
> With a mission to discover if freak waves, so big that they can smash
> a supertanker or a cruise liner, were real or a figment of the
> imagination, MaxWave used two European Space Agency satellites to
> sweep the oceans.
>
> They produced 30,000 images of the surface which have been analysed at
> the German Aerospace Centre. By coincidence, the satellite scan
> covered the South Atlantic in the period when giant waves smashed into
> two big cruise liners, the Bremen and the Caledonian Star.
>
> Rogue waves, appearing mysteriously and towering over the tallest
> ships, have gripped the imagination since antiquity. In The Perfect
> Storm, the 1997 bestseller about a 1991 shipwreck off Massachusetts,
> Sebastian Junger talks of the unnegotiable wave. "Typically they are
> very steep and have an equally steep trough in front of them - a 'hole
> in the ocean' as witnesses have described it. Ships cannot get their
> bows up fast enough, and the ensuing wave will break their back."
>
> Survivors describe the feeling of utter helplessness as a rogue wave
> approaches.
>
> Peter Newton, the chief officer of a container ship that was struck by
> an 82ft wave in the Great Australian Bight 15 years ago, told The
> Times: "That wave still gives me nightmares; I can still see it
> coming. It came out of nowhere; we could see it from two miles away.
> It crashed across the top of the containers so it was at least 82ft
> high.
>
> "There was nothing we could do about it; we did make some attempt to
> turn the ship into it but we weren't successful because it crashed
> across the front of the ship. It tore away several containers and also
> partially tore away a piece of plant machinery which we had to secure
> because it was causing structural damage."
>
> The biggest rogue wave on record at more than 110ft was reported in a
> Pacific gale by the tanker Ramapo in 1933.
>
> Ship owners, insurers and scientists have taken a recent interest in
> such freak waves because of what appear to be mounting sightings and
> sinkings that could be linked to climate change.
>
> Rogue waves are seen as a possible cause in many of more than 200
> "severe weather" sinkings of supertankers and container ships of more
> than 600ft over the past two decades. Offshore platforms have also
> been hit.
>
> In 1995, in one of the few previous measurements, the Draupner rig in
> the North Sea was hit and badly damaged by a single 85ft wave. The
> highest waves around it were measured at 40ft. In the same year, the
> captain of the Queen Elizabeth 2 rode out a 95ft rogue wave during a
> North Atlantic hurricane. Captain Ronald Warwick described "a great
> wall of water ... It looked as if we were going into the White Cliffs
> of Dover".
>
> Most vessels and platforms are built to withstand the shock of 50ft
> waves. The US National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration
> defines rogue waves as "unexpectedly high waves, which in some
> instances come from a direction different from the predominant waves
> in the local area". Europe's MaxWave project was given the job of
> recommending changes to ship and platform design.
>
> Susanne Lehner, a marine physics professor at the University of Miami,
> who worked on MaxWave, said the satellite surveillance was unique.
> "Only radar satellites can provide the truly global data sampling
> needed for statistical analysis of the oceans, because they can see
> through clouds and darkness."
>
> Ms Lehner is now leading a follow-up project, called WaveAtlas, which
> will use the MaxWave images to understand how the waves work. Some
> patterns have already been found. The waves are often found where
> ordinary waves encounter ocean currents and eddies. The current
> concentrates the wave energy like an optical lens, Ms Lehner said.
>
> Concentrations of rogue waves are found in the Agulhas current off
> eastern South Africa, and in the North Atlantic Gulf Stream.
>
> However they also show up away from currents, often near weather
> fronts and low pressure areas. Steady winds from long-lived storms can
> drive a single wave, enlarging it across hundreds of miles.
>
> ==============================
>
> The Times - Sat 24-7-2004
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1189139,00.html
>
> Britain
>
> July 24, 2004
>
> Freak conditions that create the 'holes of the sea'
> By Nicola Woolcock
>
> FREAK waves normally occur in horrendous weather conditions when
> several waves combine to create one of monstrous proportions.
>
> Measuring up to 100ft high and exerting pressure of 100 tonnes per
> square metre, rogue waves are virtually impossible to ride over.
>
> Oceanographers believe there are several main causes of the
> phenomenon: chance; the wind pushing against a strong current; or a
> shallow sea bottom focusing waves on to one spot. But a recently
> suggested theory offers an alternative explanation; that they can
> steal energy from their neighbours to become towering freak waves.
>
> Wave mathematicians claim that in certain unstable conditions,
> adjacent waves shrink while the one at the focus can grow to an
> enormous size.
>
> The explanation suggests that there could be two types of waves; the
> classical undulating type and ones that can suck up energy from those
> around them.
>
> The biggest wave factored into most ship design is smooth, undulating
> and 15 metres high. A freak wave is not only far bigger, it is a
> near-vertical wall of water which is almost guaranteed to break over
> the vessel.
>
> When one of these crashes over a ship, accident investigators have
> calculated that it would exert more than six times the pressure that
> vessels are designed to withstand.
>
> Extreme waves can form in any ocean but are more likely to occur in
> certain areas, although their inpredicability makes them hard to
> study.
>
> South Africa is the only place where rogue waves can be anticipated;
> they frequently occur off its east coast and freak wave warnings are
> given by the country's weather service.
>
> The cause is a strong wind blowing in the opposite direction to the
> Agulhas current, which brings two opposing flows together in the
> southern Indian Ocean.
>
> Norway is another hotspot because of its shallow sea which focuses
> waves into one place. In bad weather the shipping route is altered to
> avoid these areas.
>
> Certain parts of the Pacific are also notorious for typhoons whipping
> waves up to great heights.
>
> A spokesman for the Southampton Oceanography Centre said: "What causes
> freak waves is open to debate, but they usually occur when the wind is
> blowing against the current. Mariners refer to them as the holes of
> the sea.
>
> "Waves steal energy from each other all the time and freak waves are
> an extreme case of that happening. If the theory is correct, freak
> waves can just shoot up, seemingly from nowhere in a fairly calm sea.
>
> "In most cases you wouldn't see it coming at all. It's a matter of
> being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so it's very hard to
> observe them."
>
> Martin Holt, from the Met Office's Ocean Applications Branch, said: "A
> freak wave is one that is at least twice the height of those it
> surrounds. They are very localised and transitory, but also very
> incredibly steep."
>
> Freak waves are different from tsunami and tidal waves, which are
> caused when an earthquake or landslide displaces a large volume of
> water.
>
> There is growing acceptance of their existence; traditional
> oceanography theories claimed that there would hardly ever be waves
> higher than 15 metres, and that those of 30 metres would happen only
> once in 10,000 years.
>
> And mariners who claimed to have seen them were often accused of being
> like anglers describing the "huge fish that got away".
>
> ==============================
>
> Graphic at:
>
> http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,137924,00.jpg
>
> Save it whilst you can.
>
> ==============================




25 Jul 2004 16:43:32
Farr
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected] >
wrote:

>hiya
> old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..
>



25 Jul 2004 18:53:18
martin
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:43:32 GMT, [email protected] (Farr) wrote:

>errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!
>
>On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>hiya
>> old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..
>>

it was on Discovery channel sometime ago.
--
Martin


26 Jul 2004 07:43:13
Mike Mc
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

Yeah I watched both the DC and Horizon programs on that!



"martin" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:43:32 GMT, [email protected] (Farr) wrote:
>
> >errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!
> >
> >On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>hiya
> >> old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..
> >>
>
> it was on Discovery channel sometime ago.
> --
> Martin




26 Jul 2004 09:54:18
Chris Lowe
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean



Mike Mc wrote:
> Yeah I watched both the DC and Horizon programs on that!
>
>
>
> "martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:43:32 GMT, [email protected] (Farr) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!
>>>
>>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected]>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>hiya
>>>>old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..
>>>>
>>
>>it was on Discovery channel sometime ago.
>>--
>>Martin
>
there was quite a good thread on it here some time ago (last year??)



25 Jul 2004 23:16:35
Greg Chapman
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean


"Farr" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!
>
> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >hiya
> > old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..

Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year or so
back!!

Greg




26 Jul 2004 23:03:43
martin
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:16:35 +0100, "Greg Chapman"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Farr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!
>>
>> On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 16:54:13 GMT, "fragged" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >hiya
>> > old news im afraid, i think it was Horizon who did a program on this..
>
>Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year or so
>back!!

and the Discovery version sometime before that
--
Martin


26 Jul 2004 23:53:57
Alex Hill
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

Greg Chapman wrote:
>
> Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year or so
> back!!

November 2002.


27 Jul 2004 18:10:43
Greg Chapman
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean


"Alex Hill" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Greg Chapman wrote:
> >
> > Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year or so
> > back!!
>
> November 2002.

Got a feeling that I might have seen a repeat?

Greg




28 Jul 2004 01:30:41
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

"Greg Chapman" <[email protected] > wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Alex Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Greg Chapman wrote:
>> >
>> > Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year
>> > or so back!!
>>
>> November 2002.
>
> Got a feeling that I might have seen a repeat?
>
> Greg
>
>
>

I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.

So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.

--
-=The answer is simple...send pretzels to the Whitehouse!=-
MonteP
"Against stupidity, the very gods themselves contend in vain." -
Friedrich von Schiller


28 Jul 2004 09:19:02
Chris Lowe
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean



[email protected] wrote:
> "Greg Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>"Alex Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>Greg Chapman wrote:
>>>
>>>>Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year
>>>>or so back!!
>>>
>>>November 2002.
>>
>>Got a feeling that I might have seen a repeat?
>>
>>Greg
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
> that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
> not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
> 'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
> satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>
> So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
> story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.
>
this same evidence was put forward in the horizon program, including the
satellite data



28 Jul 2004 10:36:31
martin
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:19:02 +0100, Chris Lowe
<[email protected]er.com > wrote:

>
>
>[email protected] wrote:
>> "Greg Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>
>>>"Alex Hill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>>Greg Chapman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Published perhaps, but I must have seen the Horizon program a year
>>>>>or so back!!
>>>>
>>>>November 2002.
>>>
>>>Got a feeling that I might have seen a repeat?
>>>
>>>Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
>> that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
>> not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
>> 'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
>> satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>>
>> So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
>> story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.
>>
>this same evidence was put forward in the horizon program, including the
>satellite data

ERS 1 was switched off in March 2000.

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMOKQL26WD_index_0.html

Doesn't claim anything
<quote >
In December 2000 the European Union initiated a scientific project
called MaxWave to confirm the widespread occurrence of rogue waves,
model how they occur and consider their implications for ship and
offshore structure design criteria. And as part of MaxWave, data from
ESA's ERS radar satellites were first used to carry out a global rogue
wave census.


ERS-1 and 2

ERS satellite

"Without aerial coverage from radar sensors we had no chance of
finding anything," added Rosenthal, who headed the three-year MaxWave
project. "All we had to go on was radar data collected from oil
platforms. So we were interested in using ERS from the start."

ESA's twin spacecraft ERS-1 and 2 – launched in July 1991 and April
1995 respectively – both have a Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) as
their main instrument.

<end quote >

So the study lasted three years and started in 2000.
--
Martin


28 Jul 2004 19:15:07
Guy Fawkes
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

Farr wrote:

> errm.. the research has only just been publshed??!??!

the WAVES have existed for millions of years, they didn't suddenly pop into
existence alongside this particular bit of research, which only shows such
waves are far more common than previously assumned by many***

*** many = assholes like the designers of Team Philips and similar vessels.


--
Liquid Cooled PC? -- > http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/

E-mail (rot-13) qnirahyy NG oyhrlbaqre QBG pb QBG hx
EoF



29 Jul 2004 23:31:27
Greg Chapman
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean


<[email protected] >; <net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
> that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
> not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
> 'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
> satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>
> So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
> story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.

But that was precisely the point of that Horizon program, which I'm now told
was shown in November 2002.

Greg




30 Jul 2004 18:46:25
Tony
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

Greg Chapman wrote:
> <[email protected]>; <net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves
>> exist or that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for
>> the FIRST time not only were such waves detected but that they were
>> numerous. The 'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000
>> year event. The satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>>
>> So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating
>> the story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.
>
> But that was precisely the point of that Horizon program, which I'm
> now told was shown in November 2002.
>
> Greg

From memory, the Horizon (or whatever prog it was) reported a study of a
very small part of the globe. East African coast rings a bell.

The new data has been produced from a worldwide survey which is the first
time this has been done. Haven't seen one in the Solent yet, but that's not
surprising as there are more boats than water!

Tony




30 Jul 2004 23:19:51
Greg Chapman
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean


"Tony" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Greg Chapman wrote:

> From memory, the Horizon (or whatever prog it was) reported a study of a
> very small part of the globe. East African coast rings a bell.
>
> The new data has been produced from a worldwide survey which is the first
> time this has been done. Haven't seen one in the Solent yet, but that's
not
> surprising as there are more boats than water!

The Horizon Program I saw did make reference to East Africa, but only to
report how there had been an assumption that the "super-waves" only occurred
in certain sea conditions (forget the details but it may have been to do
with trenches/currents/prevailing winds). Several other sites were
mentioned as well. The new data was obtained using new highly accurate
height sensing radar and this demonstrated that the waves were found all
over the place and with vastly greater frequency that previously had been
assumed.

Greg




31 Jul 2004 08:49:34
william ewald
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:30:41 -0000, [email protected],net wrote:


>
>I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
>that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
>not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
>'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
>satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>
>So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
>story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.

Good points. Our knowledge of these events will increase, perhaps even
to the point where they can be tracked like hurricanes and warnings
issued, Anyone who says, "I saw a TV program on it last year so it's
old news" must be a landlubber.



01 Aug 2004 12:06:39
martin
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:49:34 -0400, william ewald
<[email protected] > wrote:

>On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:30:41 -0000, [email protected],net wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
>>that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
>>not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
>>'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
>>satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>>
>>So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
>>story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.
>
>Good points. Our knowledge of these events will increase, perhaps even
>to the point where they can be tracked like hurricanes and warnings
>issued, Anyone who says, "I saw a TV program on it last year so it's
>old news" must be a landlubber.

Fuzzy logic or what?
--
Martin


28 Aug 2004 09:27:04
william ewald
Re: Freak Waves and 'Holes' in the Ocean

On Sun, 01 Aug 2004 12:06:39 +0200, martin <[email protected] > wrote:

>On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 08:49:34 -0400, william ewald
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:30:41 -0000, [email protected],net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I believe the point of the story is NOT about whether such waves exist or
>>>that anecdotal evidence was quite abundant, but that for the FIRST time
>>>not only were such waves detected but that they were numerous. The
>>>'brilliant' computers predicted a once every 10,000 year event. The
>>>satellites spotted 10 or so in a three week period.
>>>
>>>So I fail to see the relevance of any comments seemingly denigrating the
>>>story as 'old'. The incontrovertible evidence is new.
>>
>>Good points. Our knowledge of these events will increase, perhaps even
>>to the point where they can be tracked like hurricanes and warnings
>>issued, Anyone who says, "I saw a TV program on it last year so it's
>>old news" must be a landlubber.
>
>Fuzzy logic or what?

" Why use fuzzy logic to predict the weather?

" Bjarne Hansen ... has built two fuzzy weather systems, one that
correctly predicts ceiling and visibility [HAN98], and another
(SIGMAR) that critiques marine forecasts [HAN97]."

http://web.cs.bgsu.edu/maner/wxsys/wxsys.htm#2