23 Nov 2004 16:04:34
Jay Halford
labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have a
labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist, says
its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
much.

Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
sailing?

The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason why
I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
I'm certainly not switching sports again.

No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony - insurance
too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
$33k! (had insurance that time).

Jay






23 Nov 2004 17:51:51
Paul Braunbehrens
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Jay, I'm very sorry to hear about this. I'd be interested in the info
if you find out more.

Having no insurance sucks. It's a disgrace that this is still a
problem in this country.


In article <[email protected] >, Jay Halford
<[email protected] > wrote:

> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have a
> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist, says
> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
> much.
>
> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
> sailing?
>
> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason why
> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>
> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony - insurance
> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>


24 Nov 2004 14:26:15
MTVNewsGuy
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

I don't know the labrum tear, but having had rotator cuff surgery on both
shoulders over the years, I'm hear to tell you that rigorous physical therapy
(which ends up being a very focused excercise program) is the best way to
prevent future injury and protect the area you've already dinged.<<
From: "Jay Halford" [email protected]
Date: Tue, Nov 23, 2004 7:04 PM
Message-id: <[email protected] >

Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have a
labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist, says
its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
much.

Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
sailing?

The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason why
I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
I'm certainly not switching sports again.

No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony - insurance
too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
$33k! (had insurance that time).

Jay









>><BR><BR>

Michael


24 Nov 2004 15:07:48
David Saxe
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
session....its gone!!!!

> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
why
> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>
> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
insurance
> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>




24 Nov 2004 11:02:11
Dan Weiss
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Jay, check this out. Be sure you actually have a torn labrum and not a
meniscoid attachment.

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/06_99/richards.htm


"David Saxe" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
> for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
> good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> session....its gone!!!!
>
>> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
> why
>> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
>> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>>
>> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
>> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>> insurance.
>> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
>> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
>> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>




24 Nov 2004 11:22:30
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?

Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.


"David Saxe" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
> for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
> good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> session....its gone!!!!
>
>> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
> why
>> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
>> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>>
>> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
>> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>> insurance.
>> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
>> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
>> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>




24 Nov 2004 11:24:21
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Dan, thanks for the heads up. I will look into this.

I have one of the best sports orthos around, and we are doing the full on
(an expensive) MRI thing first. So hopefully, there won't be any doubt.

Jay

"Dan Weiss" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jay, check this out. Be sure you actually have a torn labrum and not a
> meniscoid attachment.
>
> http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1999/06_99/richards.htm
>
>
> "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
>> for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
>> good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
>> weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
>> process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
>> session....its gone!!!!
>>
>>> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
>> why
>>> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
>>> factor.
>>> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>>>
>>> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
>>> side,
>>> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>>> insurance.
>>> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
>> insurance
>>> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
>>> was
>>> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>




24 Nov 2004 23:11:50
Peter
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

> I don't know the labrum tear, but having had rotator cuff surgery on both
> shoulders over the years, I'm hear to tell you that rigorous physical
therapy
> (which ends up being a very focused excercise program) is the best way to
> prevent future injury and protect the area you've already dinged.<<

Having just had shoulder tendonitis (sounds like relatively minor compared
to all those rotator cuffs & labrums you guys are talking about) I can
relate you one tip my sports doc gave me. Press your elbows into your sides,
stick forearms out right in front of you and have someone hold your both
palms. Now try rotating both forearms horizontally outwards - the person
holding your arms should note how strong the pull/push is. Now rotate them
inwards - again the person holding your palms should note how strong it is,
and compare with outwards pull force. Both should be roughly equal. If
they're not, some PT is on order to balance those muscles.

The idea is that shoulder joint is held in place mostly by the same muscles
responsible for this outwards/inwards rotation. As long as those muscles are
equally strong the joint stays in place. If there's disbalance, under stress
your joint starts slipping around and causing inflammation.

BTW I believe I injured my shoulder while trying to fly oversized cammed
sail for waterstart in voodoo chop... it was more like a mogul instead of
regular chop. It's been hurting for some 3 months already. Should be OK by
spring, I hope.

Hopefully you'll get your shoulder fixed! I missed some 3 epic seshs last
month because of my shoulder - it sucks big time!

Peter




24 Nov 2004 14:41:24
Mike F
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

When my shoulder impingement got so bad it needed surgery, we looked more
closely to plan the surgery. That revealed other problems, including a
labrum that had torn when my upper long bicep tendon head exploded
(permanently) two decades ago (while landscaping my yard). I got the
acromion (the impingement), the labrum, and one or two other pathologies
repaired in one out-patient surgery. I pampered it for as long as the doc
advised (a month, I'd guess now, two years later), then returned to the
Bowflex for controlled rehab including specific PT, and was full strength
within 2-3 months, as I recall. Since I was able to put the surgery off
until the water got too cold to sail (late Nov) and was totally recovered by
the time the water got tolerable (March), it wasn't even a factor in play
time. That doesn't help your winter trip, but it should encourage you for
the 3-month outlook. I'd guess that the labrum tear was my longest tent
pole, as it was soft tissue stapled to bone.

Mike m/

"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have
a
> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist,
says
> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
> much.
>
> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
> sailing?
>
> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
why
> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>
> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
insurance
> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>




24 Nov 2004 16:57:27
David S.
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

That was my point, golf is hardly even a sport but lots of people
still hurt themselves doing it whereas Windsurfing is pretty physical
yet I have rarely hurt myself doing it. Hope you solve your injury
problem!

"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?
>
> Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.
>
>
> "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
> > for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
> > good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> > weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> > process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> > session....its gone!!!!
> >
> >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
> why
> >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >>
> >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> >> insurance.
> >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
> >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >


24 Nov 2004 18:45:43
Jeremy
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Hey Jay,
Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I can certainly relate to your
situation. I am a windsurfer and have had a SLAP lesion (superior
labrum anterior to posterior) and I am also a PA (Physician Assistant)
and I work in orthopedics. I hope I can help shed a little light on
labral tears for you.

First of all, labral tears are fairly difficult to diagnose
clinically, particularly in the acute phase. They typically present
as instability. They usually occur as a result of a dislocation or
subluxation. The best way to diagnose would be to do an MR arthrogram
where they inject dye into your shoulder joint and then do the MRI. A
tear is difficult to see without the dye.

My injury seemed to occur from years of abuse playing rugby and
whitewater kayaking and finally dislocated when I was skateboarding of
all things (trying to regain my youth I guess). I was having syptoms
with overhead activities like throwing or tennis. I had been told I
had tendinitis for years before I finally got mine scanned.

The good news is that windsurfing never really gave me any trouble.
In windsurfing your shoulder is typically "closed" which is a much
more stable position. The only time you are "open" and vulnerable is
when waterstarting and reaching over your head, or maybe in an awkward
fall.

Without examening you or seeing your scan it is impossible to know
what you have at this point. If you do have a tear, you still may
able to get by without surgery. It depends on your lifestyle and just
how unstable it is. If windsurfing is the only thing you like to do,
you may be able to get by with physical therapy alone. Surgery is no
walk in the park. The procedure is not a huge deal, most people are
doing them arthroscopically, but your rehab will be long and slow.
Probably at least six months off the water depending on where your
tear is. The reason being that the long head of your biceps attaches
to the superior labrum and as you well know, windusurfing puts quite a
bit of stress on your biceps. You may try PT first and see how it
goes. In the mean time get yourself insured.
I hope this helps.

Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions I can
answer.

Jeremy



"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?
>
> Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.
>
>
> "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this sport
> > for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a pretty
> > good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> > weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> > process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> > session....its gone!!!!
> >
> >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
> why
> >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >>
> >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> >> insurance.
> >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
> >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >>
> >> Jay
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >


24 Nov 2004 23:23:52
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

That helps a lot Jeremy. Thanks.



"Jeremy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hey Jay,
> Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I can certainly relate to your
> situation. I am a windsurfer and have had a SLAP lesion (superior
> labrum anterior to posterior) and I am also a PA (Physician Assistant)
> and I work in orthopedics. I hope I can help shed a little light on
> labral tears for you.
>
> First of all, labral tears are fairly difficult to diagnose
> clinically, particularly in the acute phase. They typically present
> as instability. They usually occur as a result of a dislocation or
> subluxation. The best way to diagnose would be to do an MR arthrogram
> where they inject dye into your shoulder joint and then do the MRI. A
> tear is difficult to see without the dye.
>
> My injury seemed to occur from years of abuse playing rugby and
> whitewater kayaking and finally dislocated when I was skateboarding of
> all things (trying to regain my youth I guess). I was having syptoms
> with overhead activities like throwing or tennis. I had been told I
> had tendinitis for years before I finally got mine scanned.
>
> The good news is that windsurfing never really gave me any trouble.
> In windsurfing your shoulder is typically "closed" which is a much
> more stable position. The only time you are "open" and vulnerable is
> when waterstarting and reaching over your head, or maybe in an awkward
> fall.
>
> Without examening you or seeing your scan it is impossible to know
> what you have at this point. If you do have a tear, you still may
> able to get by without surgery. It depends on your lifestyle and just
> how unstable it is. If windsurfing is the only thing you like to do,
> you may be able to get by with physical therapy alone. Surgery is no
> walk in the park. The procedure is not a huge deal, most people are
> doing them arthroscopically, but your rehab will be long and slow.
> Probably at least six months off the water depending on where your
> tear is. The reason being that the long head of your biceps attaches
> to the superior labrum and as you well know, windusurfing puts quite a
> bit of stress on your biceps. You may try PT first and see how it
> goes. In the mean time get yourself insured.
> I hope this helps.
>
> Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions I can
> answer.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?
>>
>> Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.
>>
>>
>> "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this
>> >sport
>> > for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a
>> > pretty
>> > good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
>> > weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
>> > process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
>> > session....its gone!!!!
>> >
>> >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
>> >> reason
>> why
>> >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
>> >> factor.
>> >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>> >>
>> >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
>> >> side,
>> >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>> >> insurance.
>> >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
>> insurance
>> >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
>> >> was
>> >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>> >>
>> >> Jay
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >




25 Nov 2004 13:18:09
ScottG
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Wife had torn labrum repaired surgically and is better than ever.
Original tear from mogul skiing many years ago. No problem until she
learned to windsurf, when she would occasionally see stars due to pain
when shoulder wanted to dislocate.

She did much research and opted for surgery. Find yourself a sports
medicine orthopedic surgeon that specializes in shoulders and has much
experience.

Biggest issue was closed or open procedure. Hands down opinion was
that open had better success rate and stronger results. Scar is minimal
at front of armpit. Closed procedure has less scar, but risk of
relapse is much greater.

I think 6 weeks in a sling and 3 months PT. Now she doesn't notice it
except the range of motion is slightly reduced. Has been sailing,
swimming, skiing etc. with no more thoughts of pain or joints
disclocating.

ScottG
P.S. - how can you live without insurance?? this is a small elective
procedure. what if you are truly sick someday? your only solution
then will be bankruptcy if it is an emergency procedure, and if it is a
scheduled item, you will not get it scheduled and fixed becuase you
have no way to pay.
You are gambling with your life and health. At the very least, you
should look into a very high deductible catastrophic health insurance
policy.
Also, look at trade groups or other sources of insurance for the
self-employed.
P.P.S. - talk to your doc about a discount for cash - most insurance
does not reimburse the doc for the full bill, so see if your doc is
willing to discount for a cash customer.
Jay Halford wrote:
> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may
have a
> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
specialist, says
> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
tell me
> much.
>
> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
future
> sailing?
>
> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
reason why
> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
factor.
> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>
> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
side,
> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
insurance.
> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
insurance
> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
was
> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>
> Jay



26 Nov 2004 06:39:20
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

There is a really good book that should be read by anyone having shoulder
pain. Its called: The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution and was approx 20. It
has helped me get over a lot of pain and has excellent stretches and
exercises plus exercises you should NOT do, that I myself had done over the
yrs. I bought it online, the publisher is Health For Life, phone
800-874-5339 or Library of Congress Catalog Card # is: 90-83784. It was
money very well spent. Really has nice explanation of shoulder anatomy and
a great bunch of dumb bell exercises that will have you sailing long and
strong. Lloyd
"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> That helps a lot Jeremy. Thanks.
>
>
>
> "Jeremy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Hey Jay,
> > Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I can certainly relate to your
> > situation. I am a windsurfer and have had a SLAP lesion (superior
> > labrum anterior to posterior) and I am also a PA (Physician Assistant)
> > and I work in orthopedics. I hope I can help shed a little light on
> > labral tears for you.
> >
> > First of all, labral tears are fairly difficult to diagnose
> > clinically, particularly in the acute phase. They typically present
> > as instability. They usually occur as a result of a dislocation or
> > subluxation. The best way to diagnose would be to do an MR arthrogram
> > where they inject dye into your shoulder joint and then do the MRI. A
> > tear is difficult to see without the dye.
> >
> > My injury seemed to occur from years of abuse playing rugby and
> > whitewater kayaking and finally dislocated when I was skateboarding of
> > all things (trying to regain my youth I guess). I was having syptoms
> > with overhead activities like throwing or tennis. I had been told I
> > had tendinitis for years before I finally got mine scanned.
> >
> > The good news is that windsurfing never really gave me any trouble.
> > In windsurfing your shoulder is typically "closed" which is a much
> > more stable position. The only time you are "open" and vulnerable is
> > when waterstarting and reaching over your head, or maybe in an awkward
> > fall.
> >
> > Without examening you or seeing your scan it is impossible to know
> > what you have at this point. If you do have a tear, you still may
> > able to get by without surgery. It depends on your lifestyle and just
> > how unstable it is. If windsurfing is the only thing you like to do,
> > you may be able to get by with physical therapy alone. Surgery is no
> > walk in the park. The procedure is not a huge deal, most people are
> > doing them arthroscopically, but your rehab will be long and slow.
> > Probably at least six months off the water depending on where your
> > tear is. The reason being that the long head of your biceps attaches
> > to the superior labrum and as you well know, windusurfing puts quite a
> > bit of stress on your biceps. You may try PT first and see how it
> > goes. In the mean time get yourself insured.
> > I hope this helps.
> >
> > Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions I can
> > answer.
> >
> > Jeremy
> >
> >
> >
> > "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?
> >>
> >> Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >> "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >> >I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this
> >> >sport
> >> > for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a
> >> > pretty
> >> > good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> >> > weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> >> > process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> >> > session....its gone!!!!
> >> >
> >> >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
> >> >> reason
> >> why
> >> >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
> >> >> factor.
> >> >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >> >>
> >> >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
> >> >> side,
> >> >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> >> >> insurance.
> >> >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> >> insurance
> >> >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last
surgery
> >> >> was
> >> >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >> >>
> >> >> Jay
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
>
>




29 Nov 2004 10:08:16
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

>
> ScottG
> P.S. - how can you live without insurance?? this is a small elective
> procedure. what if you are truly sick someday?

Cause its a complete ripoff for the self employed. I took my chances. In the
past, I have usually gone years without visiting a doc for anything. Once I
gave up skiing, the injuries went away. Unfortunately, not for good.

I am definitely getting insurance now. Probably won't need it now, but I
guess that's a small price to pay if I stay healthy.

Have already discussed the discount for cash. Its about 30%. Still quite
costy though.

jay



your only solution
> then will be bankruptcy if it is an emergency procedure, and if it is a
> scheduled item, you will not get it scheduled and fixed becuase you
> have no way to pay.
> You are gambling with your life and health. At the very least, you
> should look into a very high deductible catastrophic health insurance
> policy.
> Also, look at trade groups or other sources of insurance for the
> self-employed.
> P.P.S. - talk to your doc about a discount for cash - most insurance
> does not reimburse the doc for the full bill, so see if your doc is
> willing to discount for a cash customer.
> Jay Halford wrote:
>> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may
> have a
>> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
> specialist, says
>> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
> tell me
>> much.
>>
>> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
> future
>> sailing?
>>
>> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
> reason why
>> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
> factor.
>> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>>
>> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
> side,
>> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> insurance.
>> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
>> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
> was
>> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>>
>> Jay
>




29 Nov 2004 23:13:19
bsinclair
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Hey Jay,
Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to go to
visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline with a
couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated. I do
about 3-5 of these a week.

Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a very
good idea.
I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially for
hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers usually pay
around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay a set
amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is usually
several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in advance
(Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often below the
fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious change on
the MRI.
bs

"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have
a
> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist,
says
> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
> much.
>
> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
> sailing?
>
> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
why
> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>
> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
insurance
> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> $33k! (had insurance that time).
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>




30 Nov 2004 05:15:18
Clyde
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Since you do not have insurance ask the MRI people if they will
discount the cost if you prepay. My MRI went from $1100 to $600 by
paying up front. If you go all the way to surgery try the same with
the place that does the surgery. Prepay everything including the
surgeon and the anethesiologist. The 2 tiered money system in the
medical community is quite amazing. If they don't have to deal with
insurance companies it is cheaper for doctors, et al. Good Luck.








"bsinclair" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hey Jay,
> Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
> Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to go to
> visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
> Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline with a
> couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated. I do
> about 3-5 of these a week.
>
> Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a very
> good idea.
> I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially for
> hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers usually pay
> around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay a set
> amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is usually
> several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in advance
> (Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often below the
> fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
> institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious change on
> the MRI.
> bs
>
> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may have
> a
> > labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist,
> says
> > its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell me
> > much.
> >
> > Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect future
> > sailing?
> >
> > The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One reason
> why
> > I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury factor.
> > I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >
> > No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright side,
> > more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no insurance.
> > Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> insurance
> > too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery was
> > $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >
> >


30 Nov 2004 13:50:21
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Tell me if this sounds right.

MRI arthrogram, before discounts, is $1500 for the doctor to inject and read
the results (that's the ridiculous charge), and $950 for the actual use of
the facilities (CT guided MRI whatever that is). I get billed by two
seperate companies, each giving me about 30% off the above price. The entire
thing is well under $2k.

Expensive? you betcha. Still cheaper than having insurance for the year
though if doc doesn't need to cut. If he does, its time for full time work
again.

Am I gonna risk the non insurance thing again? Nope!

Guess I can try looping once I get insurance. Might as well get my money's
worth!

Jay


"Clyde" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Since you do not have insurance ask the MRI people if they will
> discount the cost if you prepay. My MRI went from $1100 to $600 by
> paying up front. If you go all the way to surgery try the same with
> the place that does the surgery. Prepay everything including the
> surgeon and the anethesiologist. The 2 tiered money system in the
> medical community is quite amazing. If they don't have to deal with
> insurance companies it is cheaper for doctors, et al. Good Luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "bsinclair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> Hey Jay,
>> Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
>> Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to go to
>> visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
>> Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline with a
>> couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated. I
>> do
>> about 3-5 of these a week.
>>
>> Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a
>> very
>> good idea.
>> I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially for
>> hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers usually
>> pay
>> around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay a
>> set
>> amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is usually
>> several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in advance
>> (Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often below
>> the
>> fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
>> institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious change
>> on
>> the MRI.
>> bs
>>
>> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may
>> > have
>> a
>> > labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the specialist,
>> says
>> > its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't tell
>> > me
>> > much.
>> >
>> > Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
>> > future
>> > sailing?
>> >
>> > The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
>> > reason
>> why
>> > I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
>> > factor.
>> > I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>> >
>> > No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
>> > side,
>> > more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>> > insurance.
>> > Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
>> insurance
>> > too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
>> > was
>> > $33k! (had insurance that time).
>> >
>> > Jay
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >




04 Dec 2004 06:50:33
goiner
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

In addition to Jeremy's info, you need to know that labrum tears are
difficult to diagnose even WITH
a shoulder MR arthrogram.
I do around 300 of these a year or about 1 a day.

There are many pitfalls in the diagnosis.

The variabilities to look for include:
1. Get an experienced radiologist to do the injection to prevent leakage.
2. Make sure it is a quality MRI scanner
3. Hope that they do the correct sequences that will "please" your ortho
doc.
4. Don't hesitate to get a second reading of the MRI or opinion.

Sorry, I read this thread so late, but this may help...or not.
Feel free to email me direct or even shoot the images this way.

Bob

"Jeremy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hey Jay,
> Sorry to hear about your shoulder. I can certainly relate to your
> situation. I am a windsurfer and have had a SLAP lesion (superior
> labrum anterior to posterior) and I am also a PA (Physician Assistant)
> and I work in orthopedics. I hope I can help shed a little light on
> labral tears for you.
>
> First of all, labral tears are fairly difficult to diagnose
> clinically, particularly in the acute phase. They typically present
> as instability. They usually occur as a result of a dislocation or
> subluxation. The best way to diagnose would be to do an MR arthrogram
> where they inject dye into your shoulder joint and then do the MRI. A
> tear is difficult to see without the dye.
>
> My injury seemed to occur from years of abuse playing rugby and
> whitewater kayaking and finally dislocated when I was skateboarding of
> all things (trying to regain my youth I guess). I was having syptoms
> with overhead activities like throwing or tennis. I had been told I
> had tendinitis for years before I finally got mine scanned.
>
> The good news is that windsurfing never really gave me any trouble.
> In windsurfing your shoulder is typically "closed" which is a much
> more stable position. The only time you are "open" and vulnerable is
> when waterstarting and reaching over your head, or maybe in an awkward
> fall.
>
> Without examening you or seeing your scan it is impossible to know
> what you have at this point. If you do have a tear, you still may
> able to get by without surgery. It depends on your lifestyle and just
> how unstable it is. If windsurfing is the only thing you like to do,
> you may be able to get by with physical therapy alone. Surgery is no
> walk in the park. The procedure is not a huge deal, most people are
> doing them arthroscopically, but your rehab will be long and slow.
> Probably at least six months off the water depending on where your
> tear is. The reason being that the long head of your biceps attaches
> to the superior labrum and as you well know, windusurfing puts quite a
> bit of stress on your biceps. You may try PT first and see how it
> goes. In the mean time get yourself insured.
> I hope this helps.
>
> Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions I can
> answer.
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> > Oh, it was windsurfing alright. I could feel when it happened?
> >
> > Is golf even a sport? i put golf up there with darts. No thanks.
> >
> >
> > "David Saxe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > >I wouldn't be so quick to blame windsurfing. I have been doing this
sport
> > > for 10 years and have only hurt myself once so I would say thats a
pretty
> > > good record. I have seen many more injuries in golf and the most in
> > > weightlifting. This sport actually seems to have some sort of healing
> > > process in me as I can have a backache and 2 hours later after a good
> > > session....its gone!!!!
> > >
> > >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
reason
> > why
> > >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
factor.
> > >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> > >>
> > >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
side,
> > >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> > >> insurance.
> > >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> > insurance
> > >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
was
> > >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
> > >>
> > >> Jay
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >




04 Dec 2004 06:53:36
goiner
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Look into a medical savings account plan.
It may not be available in your area yet.


"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> >
> > ScottG
> > P.S. - how can you live without insurance?? this is a small elective
> > procedure. what if you are truly sick someday?
>
> Cause its a complete ripoff for the self employed. I took my chances. In
the
> past, I have usually gone years without visiting a doc for anything. Once
I
> gave up skiing, the injuries went away. Unfortunately, not for good.
>
> I am definitely getting insurance now. Probably won't need it now, but I
> guess that's a small price to pay if I stay healthy.
>
> Have already discussed the discount for cash. Its about 30%. Still quite
> costy though.
>
> jay
>
>
>
> your only solution
> > then will be bankruptcy if it is an emergency procedure, and if it is a
> > scheduled item, you will not get it scheduled and fixed becuase you
> > have no way to pay.
> > You are gambling with your life and health. At the very least, you
> > should look into a very high deductible catastrophic health insurance
> > policy.
> > Also, look at trade groups or other sources of insurance for the
> > self-employed.
> > P.P.S. - talk to your doc about a discount for cash - most insurance
> > does not reimburse the doc for the full bill, so see if your doc is
> > willing to discount for a cash customer.
> > Jay Halford wrote:
> >> Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may
> > have a
> >> labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
> > specialist, says
> >> its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
> > tell me
> >> much.
> >>
> >> Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
> > future
> >> sailing?
> >>
> >> The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
> > reason why
> >> I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
> > factor.
> >> I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >>
> >> No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
> > side,
> >> more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> > insurance.
> >> Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> > insurance
> >> too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
> > was
> >> $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >>
> >> Jay
> >
>
>




04 Dec 2004 06:57:31
goiner
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

That is not right.

We charge about $150 for the injection.
The fee for the MRI varies per place, but runs from $500 low end to $1500
high end, including the
professional reading.

You should be able to get this for $750 total if you swing it right.
As stated before, discount for cash makes "sense" but the government (!)
regulates this stuff
and does not allow it in our neck of the woods. It is considered a medicare
fraud and abuse violation even for non medicare aged patients.


"Jay Halford" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Tell me if this sounds right.
>
> MRI arthrogram, before discounts, is $1500 for the doctor to inject and
read
> the results (that's the ridiculous charge), and $950 for the actual use of
> the facilities (CT guided MRI whatever that is). I get billed by two
> seperate companies, each giving me about 30% off the above price. The
entire
> thing is well under $2k.
>
> Expensive? you betcha. Still cheaper than having insurance for the year
> though if doc doesn't need to cut. If he does, its time for full time work
> again.
>
> Am I gonna risk the non insurance thing again? Nope!
>
> Guess I can try looping once I get insurance. Might as well get my money's
> worth!
>
> Jay
>
>
> "Clyde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Since you do not have insurance ask the MRI people if they will
> > discount the cost if you prepay. My MRI went from $1100 to $600 by
> > paying up front. If you go all the way to surgery try the same with
> > the place that does the surgery. Prepay everything including the
> > surgeon and the anethesiologist. The 2 tiered money system in the
> > medical community is quite amazing. If they don't have to deal with
> > insurance companies it is cheaper for doctors, et al. Good Luck.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "bsinclair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> Hey Jay,
> >> Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
> >> Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to go
to
> >> visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
> >> Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline with
a
> >> couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated.
I
> >> do
> >> about 3-5 of these a week.
> >>
> >> Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a
> >> very
> >> good idea.
> >> I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially
for
> >> hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers
usually
> >> pay
> >> around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay a
> >> set
> >> amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is usually
> >> several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in
advance
> >> (Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often below
> >> the
> >> fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
> >> institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious
change
> >> on
> >> the MRI.
> >> bs
> >>
> >> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >> > Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I may
> >> > have
> >> a
> >> > labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
specialist,
> >> says
> >> > its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
tell
> >> > me
> >> > much.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
> >> > future
> >> > sailing?
> >> >
> >> > The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
> >> > reason
> >> why
> >> > I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
> >> > factor.
> >> > I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> >> >
> >> > No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
> >> > side,
> >> > more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> >> > insurance.
> >> > Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> >> insurance
> >> > too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last surgery
> >> > was
> >> > $33k! (had insurance that time).
> >> >
> >> > Jay
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
>
>




03 Dec 2004 23:36:21
Jay Halford
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Where is your neck of the woods?

I'm in oregon where you can bargain for medical care even from hospitals.

Thanks for this info.

Jay Halford


"goiner" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> That is not right.
>
> We charge about $150 for the injection.
> The fee for the MRI varies per place, but runs from $500 low end to $1500
> high end, including the
> professional reading.
>
> You should be able to get this for $750 total if you swing it right.
> As stated before, discount for cash makes "sense" but the government (!)
> regulates this stuff
> and does not allow it in our neck of the woods. It is considered a
> medicare
> fraud and abuse violation even for non medicare aged patients.
>
>
> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Tell me if this sounds right.
>>
>> MRI arthrogram, before discounts, is $1500 for the doctor to inject and
> read
>> the results (that's the ridiculous charge), and $950 for the actual use
>> of
>> the facilities (CT guided MRI whatever that is). I get billed by two
>> seperate companies, each giving me about 30% off the above price. The
> entire
>> thing is well under $2k.
>>
>> Expensive? you betcha. Still cheaper than having insurance for the year
>> though if doc doesn't need to cut. If he does, its time for full time
>> work
>> again.
>>
>> Am I gonna risk the non insurance thing again? Nope!
>>
>> Guess I can try looping once I get insurance. Might as well get my
>> money's
>> worth!
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>
>> "Clyde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> > Since you do not have insurance ask the MRI people if they will
>> > discount the cost if you prepay. My MRI went from $1100 to $600 by
>> > paying up front. If you go all the way to surgery try the same with
>> > the place that does the surgery. Prepay everything including the
>> > surgeon and the anethesiologist. The 2 tiered money system in the
>> > medical community is quite amazing. If they don't have to deal with
>> > insurance companies it is cheaper for doctors, et al. Good Luck.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "bsinclair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:<[email protected]>...
>> >> Hey Jay,
>> >> Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
>> >> Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to go
> to
>> >> visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
>> >> Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline with
> a
>> >> couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated.
> I
>> >> do
>> >> about 3-5 of these a week.
>> >>
>> >> Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a
>> >> very
>> >> good idea.
>> >> I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially
> for
>> >> hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers
> usually
>> >> pay
>> >> around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay a
>> >> set
>> >> amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is usually
>> >> several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in
> advance
>> >> (Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often
>> >> below
>> >> the
>> >> fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
>> >> institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious
> change
>> >> on
>> >> the MRI.
>> >> bs
>> >>
>> >> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >> news:[email protected]
>> >> > Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I
>> >> > may
>> >> > have
>> >> a
>> >> > labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
> specialist,
>> >> says
>> >> > its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
> tell
>> >> > me
>> >> > much.
>> >> >
>> >> > Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
>> >> > future
>> >> > sailing?
>> >> >
>> >> > The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
>> >> > reason
>> >> why
>> >> > I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
>> >> > factor.
>> >> > I'm certainly not switching sports again.
>> >> >
>> >> > No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
>> >> > side,
>> >> > more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
>> >> > insurance.
>> >> > Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
>> >> insurance
>> >> > too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last
>> >> > surgery
>> >> > was
>> >> > $33k! (had insurance that time).
>> >> >
>> >> > Jay
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>
>>
>
>




09 Dec 2004 16:58:47
Pavel
Re: labrum tear. Anyone have this injury?

Y'all should move up to Canada - just spent almost 2 weeks for back surgery
and had 2 MRI sessions and just had to pay about $20 (Canadian) for my phone
calls and $20 for a personal copy of my MRIs on CD. But then that's why we
pay so much tax on everything...

-Pavel in Sioux Lookout.

PS Just been reading about 5K Sioux fled north with Sitting Bull - sort of
because of our better helath care ;-)



"goiner" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> That is not right.
>
> We charge about $150 for the injection.
> The fee for the MRI varies per place, but runs from $500 low end to $1500
> high end, including the
> professional reading.
>
> You should be able to get this for $750 total if you swing it right.
> As stated before, discount for cash makes "sense" but the government (!)
> regulates this stuff
> and does not allow it in our neck of the woods. It is considered a
medicare
> fraud and abuse violation even for non medicare aged patients.
>
>
> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Tell me if this sounds right.
> >
> > MRI arthrogram, before discounts, is $1500 for the doctor to inject and
> read
> > the results (that's the ridiculous charge), and $950 for the actual use
of
> > the facilities (CT guided MRI whatever that is). I get billed by two
> > seperate companies, each giving me about 30% off the above price. The
> entire
> > thing is well under $2k.
> >
> > Expensive? you betcha. Still cheaper than having insurance for the year
> > though if doc doesn't need to cut. If he does, its time for full time
work
> > again.
> >
> > Am I gonna risk the non insurance thing again? Nope!
> >
> > Guess I can try looping once I get insurance. Might as well get my
money's
> > worth!
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> > "Clyde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > Since you do not have insurance ask the MRI people if they will
> > > discount the cost if you prepay. My MRI went from $1100 to $600 by
> > > paying up front. If you go all the way to surgery try the same with
> > > the place that does the surgery. Prepay everything including the
> > > surgeon and the anethesiologist. The 2 tiered money system in the
> > > medical community is quite amazing. If they don't have to deal with
> > > insurance companies it is cheaper for doctors, et al. Good Luck.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "bsinclair" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:<[email protected]>...
> > >> Hey Jay,
> > >> Take it one step at a time and find out what you got first.
> > >> Jeremy is right on when he says an MR arthrogram is the best way to
go
> to
> > >> visualize the labrum, short of scoping the joint.
> > >> Basically you drop a needle into the joint and inject some saline
with
> a
> > >> couple drops of MRI dye. Sounds bad, but it's pretty well tolerated.
> I
> > >> do
> > >> about 3-5 of these a week.
> > >>
> > >> Scott mentions negotiating your fee prior to the procedure. That's a
> > >> very
> > >> good idea.
> > >> I'll digress a bit into medical economics. Gross charges, especially
> for
> > >> hospital based docs, are a fantasy. Nobody pays them. Insurers
> usually
> > >> pay
> > >> around 80% of "usual and customary charges" In other words they pay
a
> > >> set
> > >> amount per procedure regardless of the bill. The gross fee is
usually
> > >> several times the amount actually collected. If you pay cash in
> advance
> > >> (Cash-tag), you'll generally be charged a much smaller fee, often
below
> > >> the
> > >> fee charged to the insurer. How much you get charged is variable per
> > >> institution, some comparative shopping could save you some serious
> change
> > >> on
> > >> the MRI.
> > >> bs
> > >>
> > >> "Jay Halford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[email protected]
> > >> > Apparently my shoulder 'tendonitis" isn't healing for a reason. I
may
> > >> > have
> > >> a
> > >> > labrum tear. Probably actually. MRI next week. Doc #2, the
> specialist,
> > >> says
> > >> > its much preferable to a rotator cuff tear, but that still doesn't
> tell
> > >> > me
> > >> > much.
> > >> >
> > >> > Anyone here go through this? How long was rehab, and did it affect
> > >> > future
> > >> > sailing?
> > >> >
> > >> > The scary thing is I did this windsurfing in the first place. One
> > >> > reason
> > >> why
> > >> > I turned to this sport and away from skiing was due to the injury
> > >> > factor.
> > >> > I'm certainly not switching sports again.
> > >> >
> > >> > No Baja this year, and my summer may even be screwed. On the bright
> > >> > side,
> > >> > more time to work so that I can pay for the med bills. Nope, no
> > >> > insurance.
> > >> > Too expensive for a self employed guy like me. That's the irony -
> > >> insurance
> > >> > too expensive, so I may shell out 15k for not having it. Last
surgery
> > >> > was
> > >> > $33k! (had insurance that time).
> > >> >
> > >> > Jay
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> >
> >
>
>