26 Feb 2005 18:10:37
Erich
Federer beats Agassi

6-3 6-1

It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with it
and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
week.




26 Feb 2005 11:31:35
David Henry
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Erich" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> 6-3 6-1
>
> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
> it
> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
> week.

I think it says more about Agassi.

Plus, as we all know, Federer gets tougher later in tournaments.

It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.

Dave




26 Feb 2005 18:40:22
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

David Henry wrote:
> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>6-3 6-1
>>
>>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>>it
>>and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
>>week.
>
>
> I think it says more about Agassi.
>
> Plus, as we all know, Federer gets tougher later in tournaments.
>
> It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.
>
> Dave
>
>


It is. By all rights Federer should have lost that match.


26 Feb 2005 10:42:36
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Erich" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> 6-3 6-1
>
> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
> it
> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
> week.


Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other semi
Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed, their third
final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.

Ivan's third final in a row, first to do so since Hewitt at Washigton/Long
Island/USO last year. First rematch in consec. weeks since Rafter/Kuerten
at Cinci/Indy 2001.


Meanwhile Nadal goes for second straight title at Acapulco. He's guaranteed
entry to clay MS now, and with literally nothing to defend on the dirt
wouldn't be surprised to see a run at top ten before the French.












26 Feb 2005 18:59:06
Yama
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Hops <[email protected] > wrote:
: Ivan's third final in a row, first to do so since Hewitt at Washigton/Long
: Island/USO last year. First rematch in consec. weeks since Rafter/Kuerten
: at Cinci/Indy 2001.

ATP is getting boring! Always same two guys in the final! No depth!
*whinebitchmoankruiks*


26 Feb 2005 19:14:51
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > 6-3 6-1
> >
> > It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
> > it
> > and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
in
> > week.
>
> I think it says more about Agassi.

I think we already knew everything about Agassi and his form. After losing
at the AO and a sluggish win last week, I think a few people were starting
to think that Fed might be dropping a notch or two, but after 3-3 today, he
was just sublime. That desperate lob-lunge to break Agassi for the 2nd time
in the 3rd set was just amazing.


> Plus, as we all know, Federer gets tougher later in tournaments.

Yes, I think even though he says he treats every match the same, he must get
a bit bored with the early rounds and find it difficult to get up for them.
He sort of did the same thing for much of the year following Wimbledon last
year. Again a few people were saying he looked tired and beatable, and then
when it comes to the crunch, he steps up and destroys players like Roddick
and Hewitt.


> It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.

Really? I would much rather have seen Fed vs Agassi than Ferrero vs Agassi.




26 Feb 2005 19:22:34
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> It is. By all rights Federer should have lost that match.

By that same token, Federer should have won the match against Safin at the
AO, then.




26 Feb 2005 19:27:24
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Erich wrote:
>>>It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>
>>It is. By all rights Federer should have lost that match.
>
>
> By that same token, Federer should have won the match against Safin at the
> AO, then.
>
>


Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.


26 Feb 2005 19:33:39
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
> well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.

Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the big
forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between winning
and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
your obviously biased interpretation.




26 Feb 2005 19:38:27
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Erich wrote:
>>Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
>>well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>
>
> Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the big
> forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between winning
> and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
> your obviously biased interpretation.
>
>

Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.


26 Feb 2005 19:41:48
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the
big
> > forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between
winning
> > and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
> > your obviously biased interpretation.
> >
> >
>
> Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.

And no win for Ferrero, any way you wish to cut it.




26 Feb 2005 13:21:18
David Henry
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Hops" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> 6-3 6-1
>>
>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>> it
>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>> in
>> week.
>
>
> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
> going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed.


Ah, didn't know it was two matches in one day. Of course, Agassi is at a
complete disadvantage.

Dave




26 Feb 2005 21:12:34
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

David Henry wrote:
> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>6-3 6-1
>>>
>>>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>>>it
>>>and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>>>in
>>>week.
>>
>>
>>Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
>>going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed.
>
>
>
> Ah, didn't know it was two matches in one day. Of course, Agassi is at a
> complete disadvantage.
>
> Dave
>
>


Yep, Agassi started great, really had Federer working but then he just
ran out of gas.


27 Feb 2005 08:44:17
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Erich wrote:

> 6-3 6-1
>
> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with it
> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
> week.
>
>


Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
while & then whammo!



26 Feb 2005 21:49:25
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> Yep, Agassi started great, really had Federer working but then he just
> ran out of gas.

Actually, Federer shifted into gear, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
:-)




27 Feb 2005 08:53:42
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Hops wrote:

> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>6-3 6-1
>>
>>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>>it
>>and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
>>week.
>
>
>
> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
> going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other semi
> Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed, their third
> final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>

The bigger clue is Agassi's style - counter-punchers have no weapons to
hurt Fed even in 2nd gear...


27 Feb 2005 08:58:43
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Dr GroundAxe wrote:

> Erich wrote:
>
>>> Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
>>> well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the big
>> forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between winning
>> and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
>> your obviously biased interpretation.
>>
>>
>
> Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.


Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
for that.



27 Feb 2005 09:00:04
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

David Henry wrote:

> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>6-3 6-1
>>>
>>>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>>>it
>>>and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>>>in
>>>week.
>>
>>
>>Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
>>going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed.
>
>
>
> Ah, didn't know it was two matches in one day. Of course, Agassi is at a
> complete disadvantage.
>
> Dave
>
>


Yes, woulda been 6-3 6-3 to Fed if Agassi was fully rested.


26 Feb 2005 22:13:09
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Whisper wrote:
> Hops wrote:
>
>> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>> 6-3 6-1
>>>
>>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away
>>> with it
>>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form
>>> earlier in
>>> week.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA
>> was going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other
>> semi Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed,
>> their third final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>>
>
> The bigger clue is Agassi's style - counter-punchers have no weapons to
> hurt Fed even in 2nd gear...



Hewitt in the 2004 USO final demonstrated that totally. One of the
reasons I believe Fed was so dominant in 2004 is that there are a lot of
counter punchers in the mens game right now; this is now changing.


27 Feb 2005 09:21:52
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Dr GroundAxe wrote:

>>>
>>> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old
>>> AA was going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the
>>> other semi Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at
>>> Fed, their third final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>>>
>>
>> The bigger clue is Agassi's style - counter-punchers have no weapons
>> to hurt Fed even in 2nd gear...
>
>
>
>
> Hewitt in the 2004 USO final demonstrated that totally. One of the
> reasons I believe Fed was so dominant in 2004 is that there are a lot of
> counter punchers in the mens game right now; this is now changing.


Yes. Thank god (Fed?) for that.



26 Feb 2005 23:45:54
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
> they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
> while & then whammo!

Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys who
has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half, while
the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
successful in their last few matches.




26 Feb 2005 16:41:35
kurtz
Re: Federer beats Agassi

>Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys
who
>has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half,
while
>the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
>successful in their last few matches.

Safin pushed over Fed in 2004 in their matches (exept the final in AO,
where Safin run out of gas):
2004 Tennis Masters Cup 3 6 6 7
2004 Dubai 6 7 6 7
2004 Australian Open 6 7 4 6 2 6

It weren't easy matches for fed unlike the matches he had against rod
and hewitt... that's why fed said prior to AO that the biggest threat
would come from Safin... and it came!



27 Feb 2005 00:57:21
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> >Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys
> who
> >has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half,
> while
> >the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
> >successful in their last few matches.
>
> Safin pushed over Fed in 2004 in their matches (exept the final in AO,
> where Safin run out of gas):
> 2004 Tennis Masters Cup 3 6 6 7
> 2004 Dubai 6 7 6 7
> 2004 Australian Open 6 7 4 6 2 6

Yep, Kudos to Safin. I am in no way disputing this, just Whisper's assertion
that Agassi doesn't have the tools to hurt Federer, which is just ridiculous
if you look at the evidence. Now, at 35, with hip problems, lack of match
play, and having to play 2 matches in one day, Agassi was never going to
beat Federer today, but that's barely relevant to the point, and he played
his part in a very entertaining match.


> It weren't easy matches for fed unlike the matches he had against rod
> and hewitt... that's why fed said prior to AO that the biggest threat
> would come from Safin... and it came!

He also said Hewitt, though, but maybe that was just as a crowd pleaser for
the Aussies?






27 Feb 2005 02:08:31
Yama
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Dr GroundAxe <[email protected] > wrote:
: Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
: well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.

Geez, at least with Sampras haters they waited until late of his
era to come out of the woodwork...


27 Feb 2005 02:25:20
Dr GroundAxe
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Yama wrote:
> Dr GroundAxe <[email protected]> wrote:
> : Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
> : well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>
> Geez, at least with Sampras haters they waited until late of his
> era to come out of the woodwork...


This implies there is currently a Federer era? 2004 was a great year for
him, no doubt about it, but why don't we see how he gets on in vents
that count this year.


27 Feb 2005 15:11:40
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Erich wrote:
>>Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
>>they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
>>while & then whammo!
>
>
> Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys who
> has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half, while
> the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
> successful in their last few matches.
>
>


Nah, Fed has killed Agassi pretty badly for a while now - the 5 set USO
match was more due to the wind....

Think about it - how can counter-punchers beat him? They don't hit hard
enough/serve big to trouble him in any way - & from the baseline he's
better than they are. He can only lose if he's badly off his game &
making errors....

Roddick/Nadal/Ancic will be his biggest threats in the short term....
Safin might beat him 1 more time before he retires (only peaks 1 or 2
matches per yr)....


27 Feb 2005 04:26:38
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> >>Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
> >>they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
> >>while & then whammo!
> >
> >
> > Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys
who
> > has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half,
while
> > the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
> > successful in their last few matches.
> >
> >
>
>
> Nah, Fed has killed Agassi pretty badly for a while now - the 5 set USO
> match was more due to the wind....

They both played in the wind. Agassi hasn't played his best for a while, so
it's not surprising he has been spanked by Fed recently.


> Think about it - how can counter-punchers beat him? They don't hit hard
> enough/serve big to trouble him in any way - & from the baseline he's
> better than they are. He can only lose if he's badly off his game &
> making errors....

You make the usual mistake in dismissing Agassi as merely a counter-puncher.
The fact remains that Agassi was one of very few players to push Federer for
quite a while when just about everybody else, including Roddick got
steamrolled, and how did Agassi ever manage to beat the great Pete Sampras,
if he couldn't do anything to hurt him. Your analysis is far too simplistic.


> Roddick/Nadal/Ancic will be his biggest threats in the short term....
> Safin might beat him 1 more time before he retires (only peaks 1 or 2
> matches per yr)....

Nah, the real challenge will come from players who are prepared to play more
of an all-court game like Safin did at the AO. Roddick can't do it, Ancic
can sort of, but he is really messy, and Nadal... well, let's not even get
started on ol' funnel-face. :-)




27 Feb 2005 19:38:09
John
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Dr GroundAxe" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Whisper wrote:
>> Hops wrote:
>>
>>> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>> 6-3 6-1
>>>>
>>>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away
>>>> with it
>>>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>>>> in
>>>> week.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA
>>> was going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other semi
>>> Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed, their third
>>> final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>>>
>>
>> The bigger clue is Agassi's style - counter-punchers have no weapons to
>> hurt Fed even in 2nd gear...
>
>
>
> Hewitt in the 2004 USO final demonstrated that totally. One of the reasons
> I believe Fed was so dominant in 2004 is that there are a lot of counter
> punchers in the mens game right now; this is now changing.

So does men's tennis really change within one year ? The reason
Federer was so dominant in 2004 was because he was the best player
in the world, his result and his ability to win big important matches
put him head and shoulder above all his peers. I noticed your hatred to
towards him but you'd better get used to him winning a lot of big
tournaments and he will continue to do so in the next few years.




27 Feb 2005 00:41:48
Re: Federer beats Agassi


Whisper wrote:
> Erich wrote:
>
> > 6-3 6-1
> >
> > It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away
with it
> > and answered any questions people might have had about his form
earlier in
> > week.
> >
> >
>
>
> Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
> they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a

> while & then whammo!

You are right. Especially Agassi. Agassi is a bunny against all those
players who can rally with him and have bigger weapons... remember
Lendl?



27 Feb 2005 19:53:58
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

[email protected] wrote:

> Whisper wrote:
>
>>Erich wrote:
>>
>>
>>>6-3 6-1
>>>
>>>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away
>
> with it
>
>>>and answered any questions people might have had about his form
>
> earlier in
>
>>>week.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
>>they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
>
>
>>while & then whammo!
>
>
> You are right. Especially Agassi. Agassi is a bunny against all those
> players who can rally with him and have bigger weapons... remember
> Lendl?
>


Do you never give up...?





27 Feb 2005 21:48:23
SV
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"David Henry" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> 6-3 6-1
>>
>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>> it
>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>> in
>> week.
>
> I think it says more about Agassi.
>
> Plus, as we all know, Federer gets tougher later in tournaments.
>
> It's a shame Ferrero couldn't have taken him out.
>

??? Ferrero isn't worth shite. Why you have any time for him I have no
idea...




27 Feb 2005 13:28:45
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 18:10:37 GMT, "Erich"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>6-3 6-1
>
>It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with it
>and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
>week.

Crazy, he really stepped it up well this tournament. I thought Agassi
was going to get a bagel in that second set. From the way Federer was
playing earlier in the week, I'd expected Agassi to have given him
more of a run for his money.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


27 Feb 2005 14:31:18
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:58:43 +1100, Whisper <[email protected] >
wrote:
>Dr GroundAxe wrote:
>
>> Erich wrote:
>>
>>>> Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
>>>> well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the big
>>> forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between winning
>>> and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
>>> your obviously biased interpretation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.
>
>
>Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>for that.

No, but I'm sure defending his Wimbledon title will.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


27 Feb 2005 14:35:49
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:42:36 -0800, "Hops"
<[email protected] > wrote:
>"Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> 6-3 6-1
>>
>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away with
>> it
>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier in
>> week.
>
>
>Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA was
>going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other semi
>Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed, their third
>final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>
>Ivan's third final in a row, first to do so since Hewitt at Washigton/Long
>Island/USO last year. First rematch in consec. weeks since Rafter/Kuerten
>at Cinci/Indy 2001.

Ljubicic is playing astonishingly well. It's just odd that this
doesn't translate to a decent performance in the Slams. This said, I'd
be surprised if Federer doesn't beat Ljubicic in straights, like in
Doha, rather than the tough match that was the Rotterdam final.

>Meanwhile Nadal goes for second straight title at Acapulco. He's guaranteed
>entry to clay MS now, and with literally nothing to defend on the dirt
>wouldn't be surprised to see a run at top ten before the French.

He didn't play any top players in Acapulco, really, apart from Canas.
Even so, he's been in excellent form and I think he's really going to
do some damage during the European clay season. I don't see him
winning the FO this year, but I can certainly believe that he'll go
deep into the draw.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


27 Feb 2005 13:01:32
David Henry
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Luke Croll" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:42:36 -0800, "Hops"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

[...]

> He didn't play any top players in Acapulco, really, apart from Canas.
> Even so, he's been in excellent form and I think he's really going to
> do some damage during the European clay season. I don't see him
> winning the FO this year, but I can certainly believe that he'll go
> deep into the draw.

I agree. I think Nadal is coming of age right now. He didn't defeat the
great players, but he defeated the not-so-greats rather easily. That's
always a step in the right direction.

Winning titles breeds confidence, which will make Nadal dangerous.

Dave




27 Feb 2005 21:47:58
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Whisper" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Dr GroundAxe wrote:
>
>> Erich wrote:
>>
>>>> Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought too
>>>> well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the
>>> big
>>> forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between
>>> winning
>>> and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO, despite
>>> your obviously biased interpretation.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.
>
>
> Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
> for that.

yes, i'm sure he's still rankled by it..and i'm curious to see how fed fares
at FO..if he fares poorly, W might be a serious problem for him
psychologically..

bob




27 Feb 2005 13:50:14
kurtz
Re: Federer beats Agassi

>He also said Hewitt, though, but maybe that was just as a crowd
pleaser for
>the Aussies?
I don't recall him saying that.. but I'm sure it was a crowd pleaser..
Hewitt is completely owned by Fed



27 Feb 2005 21:52:21
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Dr GroundAxe" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Whisper wrote:
>> Hops wrote:
>>
>>> "Erich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>> 6-3 6-1
>>>>
>>>> It looked pretty competitive for a while, but then Federer ran away
>>>> with it
>>>> and answered any questions people might have had about his form earlier
>>>> in
>>>> week.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Inevitable - they had to play two matches today, no way 35 year old AA
>>> was going to recover in time, never mind beating Fed. In the other semi
>>> Ljubicic d. Robredo. So Ljubicic gets another crack at Fed, their third
>>> final this year after Doha and Rotterdam.
>>>
>>
>> The bigger clue is Agassi's style - counter-punchers have no weapons to
>> hurt Fed even in 2nd gear...
>
>
>
> Hewitt in the 2004 USO final demonstrated that totally. One of the reasons
> I believe Fed was so dominant in 2004 is that there are a lot of counter
> punchers in the mens game right now; this is now changing.

if safin could keep his head on and roddick improve his backhand, you'd have
2 big hitters facing fed..obviously, agassi/hewitt are canon fodder for fed,
i bet inside he's actually laughing when he plays those 2..

bob




27 Feb 2005 21:55:51
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Erich" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> >Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys
>> who
>> >has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half,
>> while
>> >the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
>> >successful in their last few matches.
>>
>> Safin pushed over Fed in 2004 in their matches (exept the final in AO,
>> where Safin run out of gas):
>> 2004 Tennis Masters Cup 3 6 6 7
>> 2004 Dubai 6 7 6 7
>> 2004 Australian Open 6 7 4 6 2 6
>
> Yep, Kudos to Safin. I am in no way disputing this, just Whisper's
> assertion
> that Agassi doesn't have the tools to hurt Federer, which is just
> ridiculous
> if you look at the evidence. Now, at 35, with hip problems, lack of match
> play, and having to play 2 matches in one day, Agassi was never going to
> beat Federer today, but that's barely relevant to the point, and he played
> his part in a very entertaining match.

reality is that 2005 agassi and hewitt cannot "win" pts vs fed, they have to
hope fed "loses" pts..safin (and even roddick) are capable of actually
"winning" pts vs fed, problem is winning *enough* of them..

>
>> It weren't easy matches for fed unlike the matches he had against rod
>> and hewitt... that's why fed said prior to AO that the biggest threat
>> would come from Safin... and it came!
>
> He also said Hewitt, though, but maybe that was just as a crowd pleaser
> for
> the Aussies?

gosh, he destroyed hewitt many times in 04' by laughable scorelines.

bob




27 Feb 2005 22:00:37
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Erich" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> >>Fed doesn't have problems with counter punchers like Agassi/Hewitt -
>> >>they have nothing to hurt him with. He'll just rally with them for a
>> >>while & then whammo!
>> >
>> >
>> > Agassi is more than just a counter-puncher, and he is of the few guys
> who
>> > has consistently been able to push Fed over the last year and a half,
> while
>> > the other top guys just got steam-rolled, although he hasn't been as
>> > successful in their last few matches.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Nah, Fed has killed Agassi pretty badly for a while now - the 5 set USO
>> match was more due to the wind....
>
> They both played in the wind. Agassi hasn't played his best for a while,
> so
> it's not surprising he has been spanked by Fed recently.
>
>
>> Think about it - how can counter-punchers beat him? They don't hit hard
>> enough/serve big to trouble him in any way - & from the baseline he's
>> better than they are. He can only lose if he's badly off his game &
>> making errors....
>
> You make the usual mistake in dismissing Agassi as merely a
> counter-puncher.
> The fact remains that Agassi was one of very few players to push Federer
> for
> quite a while when just about everybody else, including Roddick got
> steamrolled, and how did Agassi ever manage to beat the great Pete
> Sampras,
> if he couldn't do anything to hurt him. Your analysis is far too
> simplistic.

this is 2005 agassi, not late 90s agassi..a great counter puncher who is
extremely young/fit/fast CAN beat a bigger hitter sometimes, but he has to
be able to run all day and fetch like a retriever..agassi can't do that
anymore..he's a porch dog now.

>> Roddick/Nadal/Ancic will be his biggest threats in the short term....
>> Safin might beat him 1 more time before he retires (only peaks 1 or 2
>> matches per yr)....
>
> Nah, the real challenge will come from players who are prepared to play
> more
> of an all-court game like Safin did at the AO. Roddick can't do it, Ancic
> can sort of, but he is really messy, and Nadal... well, let's not even get
> started on ol' funnel-face. :-)

i tend to think that if a 6'2"+ strong and athletic server/volleyer comes
along, he'll give fed big trouble..

roddick blasts serves, then stays back or misses the easy volley.

bob




27 Feb 2005 22:23:25
Erich
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> this is 2005 agassi, not late 90s agassi..a great counter puncher who is
> extremely young/fit/fast CAN beat a bigger hitter sometimes, but he has to
> be able to run all day and fetch like a retriever..agassi can't do that
> anymore..he's a porch dog now.

Even at his age and with his hip problem, he is still too good for most
players out there, as he proved this week. It's still going to take
something special to beat him, but it's pretty clear that he isn't up to
testing Federer at the moment, and he might not be again, but Whisper has
been dismissing him as "just" a counter-puncher for as long as I can
remember.


> i tend to think that if a 6'2"+ strong and athletic server/volleyer comes
> along, he'll give fed big trouble..
>
> roddick blasts serves, then stays back or misses the easy volley.

Yep, taking to the net is a vital ingredient to beating an on-form Federer.
It was pretty much all that got Agassi on the scoreboard in the 2nd set
yesterday, Safin used this tactic very successfully at the AO, as did that
Asian guy whose name I forget.




28 Feb 2005 19:00:48
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Luke Croll wrote:
>>>Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.
>>
>>
>>Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>>for that.
>
>
> No, but I'm sure defending his Wimbledon title will.
>


Yes - if he wins it again this yr it will be a superb yr for him....


28 Feb 2005 19:33:59
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

bob wrote:
>>Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>>for that.
>
>
> yes, i'm sure he's still rankled by it..and i'm curious to see how fed fares
> at FO..if he fares poorly, W might be a serious problem for him
> psychologically..
>
> bob
>
>


Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
better not blow this'..

Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.


28 Feb 2005 22:54:01
John
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Whisper" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> bob wrote:
>>>Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>>>for that.
>>
>>
>> yes, i'm sure he's still rankled by it..and i'm curious to see how fed
>> fares at FO..if he fares poorly, W might be a serious problem for him
>> psychologically..
>>
>> bob
>
>
> Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
> better not blow this'..
>
> Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.

Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
Nadal
will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set victory
for Fed if
he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against Fed.




28 Feb 2005 23:09:44
John
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"bob" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Dr GroundAxe wrote:
>>
>>> Erich wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Erm, no. Federer failed to convert his MP because Safin just fought
>>>>> too
>>>>> well. Ferrero choked on his MP and hit errors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ferrero did the right thing, he didn't choke. He went for it with the
>>>> big
>>>> forhand. It came down to a matchpoint, and the difference between
>>>> winning
>>>> and losing was marginal, just like it was for Federer at the FO,
>>>> despite
>>>> your obviously biased interpretation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Still, no AO for Federer for 2005, any way you wish to cut it.
>>
>>
>> Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>> for that.
>
> yes, i'm sure he's still rankled by it..and i'm curious to see how fed
> fares at FO..if he fares poorly, W might be a serious problem for him
> psychologically..

I don't think so, Like Becker or Sampras in the past Fed knows that he can
do well
at Wimbledon because there aren't too many traditional grass court players
who can
trouble him on grass and most of the baseline players with the exception of
possibly
Roddick with his power and Safin can not trouble him on grass. Failing in
Australian
Open and French Open has never being a serious psychological problem at
Wimbledon
for both Sampras and Becker and I expect the same with Federer....
>
> bob
>




28 Feb 2005 23:31:08
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

John wrote:

> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>bob wrote:
>>
>>>>Yes, that's the key - & Fed knows it. No amount of tune-ups can make up
>>>>for that.
>>>
>>>
>>>yes, i'm sure he's still rankled by it..and i'm curious to see how fed
>>>fares at FO..if he fares poorly, W might be a serious problem for him
>>>psychologically..
>>>
>>>bob
>>
>>
>>Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
>>better not blow this'..
>>
>>Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.
>
>
> Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
> Nadal
> will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set victory
> for Fed if
> he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against Fed.
>
>



Ancic thrashed Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon, & indeed he is the
last guy to beat him there. Nadal wallopped Ancic at Wimbledon the
following yr as a 16 yr old.

Join the dots.




28 Feb 2005 13:13:57
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:31:08 +1100, Whisper <[email protected] >
wrote:
>>>Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
>>>better not blow this'..
>>>
>>>Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.
>>
>>
>> Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
>> Nadal
>> will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set victory
>> for Fed if
>> he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against Fed.
>
>Ancic thrashed Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon, & indeed he is the
>last guy to beat him there. Nadal wallopped Ancic at Wimbledon the
>following yr as a 16 yr old.

The Federer who lost to Ancic is not the same Federer who has won two
consecutive Wimbledon titles (and two Halle titles too). He's a much
better player now. I was surprised at the quality of Ancic's play last
year when he thrashed Henman, but I doubt that Federer would fall to
Ancic again. Roddick is definitely a threat, as proven by the fact
that he took a set off Fed last year.

As for Nadal, I'm afraid I agree with the previous poster. I can't see
him doing well on the grass at all. On clay, yes, he's looking like a
major threat, but not on grass. He hardly 'walloped' Ancic, either, as
he won 6-3 6-4 4-6 6-4. Solid, but it's not as though he was dishing
out bagels left and right. He followed it up with a win over Lee
Childs, which is nothing impressive at all and then lost in straights
to Srichaphan, who can play reasonably well on grass.

A decent grass court player, like Henman, Rusedski, Roddick, Federer
or suchlike should walk all over Nadal on grass.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


28 Feb 2005 13:16:05
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:23:25 GMT, "Erich"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>Yep, taking to the net is a vital ingredient to beating an on-form Federer.
>It was pretty much all that got Agassi on the scoreboard in the 2nd set
>yesterday, Safin used this tactic very successfully at the AO, as did that
>Asian guy whose name I forget.

Suzuki. I think it was also the reason why Henman was able to beat
Federer earlier in his career and also at Rotterdam last year. From
there, though, Federer was able to pick it up a notch and can now pick
off Henman at will.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


01 Mar 2005 05:58:25
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Luke Croll wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:31:08 +1100, Whisper <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>>>Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
>>>>better not blow this'..
>>>>
>>>>Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.
>>>
>>>
>>>Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
>>>Nadal
>>>will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set victory
>>>for Fed if
>>>he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against Fed.
>>
>>Ancic thrashed Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon, & indeed he is the
>>last guy to beat him there. Nadal wallopped Ancic at Wimbledon the
>>following yr as a 16 yr old.
>
>
> The Federer who lost to Ancic is not the same Federer who has won two
> consecutive Wimbledon titles (and two Halle titles too).

Right, but he was super-Fed when he beat Sampras the yr before.....


He's a much
> better player now. I was surprised at the quality of Ancic's play last
> year when he thrashed Henman, but I doubt that Federer would fall to
> Ancic again. Roddick is definitely a threat, as proven by the fact
> that he took a set off Fed last year.

Ancic definitely has the firepower to beat Fed at Wimbledon again.


>
> As for Nadal, I'm afraid I agree with the previous poster. I can't see
> him doing well on the grass at all. On clay, yes, he's looking like a
> major threat, but not on grass. He hardly 'walloped' Ancic, either, as
> he won 6-3 6-4 4-6 6-4. Solid, but it's not as though he was dishing
> out bagels left and right. He followed it up with a win over Lee
> Childs, which is nothing impressive at all and then lost in straights
> to Srichaphan, who can play reasonably well on grass.



Um, he was 16 & a Spansih dirtballer. You figure he's peaked already...?


28 Feb 2005 12:55:59
[email protected]
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Agreed, it's a bit early to be saying "Fed Era", no matter how good
last year was. I don't think anyone remembers a Wilander "era" now...
even if he won 3 slams in one year.



28 Feb 2005 13:48:18
[email protected]
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Agassi is still pretty impressive...

You have to remember that in most recent tournaments, Agassi often only
loses against Fed, 04 USO, 05 AO, this week-end in Dubai, etc.

Granted he hasn't faced a Roddick/Hewitt or Safin recently, you have to
wonder how far he'd go if it weren't for Fed in these tourneys...



28 Feb 2005 17:35:20
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> I don't think so, Like Becker or Sampras in the past Fed knows that he can
> do well
> at Wimbledon

I do, because unlike say a Sampras or Becker, who at least later on knew
deep down they had no chance at the FO, Fed does see himself as a likely FO
winner. So a disappointment at the FO will sting him far more than it did
Sampras/Becker/Edberg types...


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





28 Feb 2005 17:36:51
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> if safin could keep his head on and roddick improve his backhand, you'd
have
> 2 big hitters facing fed..obviously, agassi/hewitt are canon fodder for
fed,
> i bet inside he's actually laughing when he plays those 2..

Yes, that's a barrier Fed faces that Sampras didn't face a decade ago when
he was establishing his era, i.e, talented big-hitting competition...


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





01 Mar 2005 13:00:27
John
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Whisper" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Luke Croll wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:31:08 +1100, Whisper <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
>>>>>better not blow this'..
>>>>>
>>>>>Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
>>>>Nadal
>>>>will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set
>>>>victory for Fed if
>>>>he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against
>>>>Fed.
>>>
>>>Ancic thrashed Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon, & indeed he is the
>>>last guy to beat him there. Nadal wallopped Ancic at Wimbledon the
>>>following yr as a 16 yr old.
>>
>>
>> The Federer who lost to Ancic is not the same Federer who has won two
>> consecutive Wimbledon titles (and two Halle titles too).
>
> Right, but he was super-Fed when he beat Sampras the yr before.....
>
>
> He's a much
>> better player now. I was surprised at the quality of Ancic's play last
>> year when he thrashed Henman, but I doubt that Federer would fall to
>> Ancic again. Roddick is definitely a threat, as proven by the fact
>> that he took a set off Fed last year.
>
> Ancic definitely has the firepower to beat Fed at Wimbledon again.
>
>
>>
>> As for Nadal, I'm afraid I agree with the previous poster. I can't see
>> him doing well on the grass at all. On clay, yes, he's looking like a
>> major threat, but not on grass. He hardly 'walloped' Ancic, either, as
>> he won 6-3 6-4 4-6 6-4. Solid, but it's not as though he was dishing
>> out bagels left and right. He followed it up with a win over Lee
>> Childs, which is nothing impressive at all and then lost in straights
>> to Srichaphan, who can play reasonably well on grass.
>
>
>
> Um, he was 16 & a Spansih dirtballer. You figure he's peaked already...?

I don't think he peak already but it is very unlikely that he can beat
Federer
on grass with his current game, and his game has not progess as quickly as
your think it has and certainly not on the level to challenge Federer on
courts other than clay.




01 Mar 2005 13:02:20
John
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"StephenJ" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:%[email protected]
>> I don't think so, Like Becker or Sampras in the past Fed knows that he
>> can
>> do well
>> at Wimbledon
>
> I do, because unlike say a Sampras or Becker, who at least later on knew
> deep down they had no chance at the FO, Fed does see himself as a likely
> FO
> winner. So a disappointment at the FO will sting him far more than it did
> Sampras/Becker/Edberg types...

Well if Fed does get deep into the draw in FO say a final appearance, it may
well
hurt him on grass but not if he gets out early like Sampras/Becker/Edberg
usually
did.....
>
>
> --
> I do not think the United States would come to an end if
> we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
> think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
> that declaration as to the laws of the several States.
>
> - Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS
>
>
>




01 Mar 2005 19:52:50
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

[email protected] wrote:

> Agreed, it's a bit early to be saying "Fed Era", no matter how good
> last year was. I don't think anyone remembers a Wilander "era" now...
> even if he won 3 slams in one year.
>


Yes, though if he wins Wimbledon again that'll be 3 in a row - a
mini-era at least.



01 Mar 2005 21:37:24
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

StephenJ wrote:

>>I don't think so, Like Becker or Sampras in the past Fed knows that he can
>>do well
>>at Wimbledon
>
>
> I do, because unlike say a Sampras or Becker, who at least later on knew
> deep down they had no chance at the FO, Fed does see himself as a likely FO
> winner. So a disappointment at the FO will sting him far more than it did
> Sampras/Becker/Edberg types...
>
>


No evidence of that. He says Wimbledon is his primary goal every yr.
He said this even before he won it. This is only surprising to clueless
types new to tennis.


01 Mar 2005 21:39:02
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

StephenJ wrote:

>>if safin could keep his head on and roddick improve his backhand, you'd
>
> have
>
>>2 big hitters facing fed..obviously, agassi/hewitt are canon fodder for
>
> fed,
>
>>i bet inside he's actually laughing when he plays those 2..
>
>
> Yes, that's a barrier Fed faces that Sampras didn't face a decade ago when
> he was establishing his era, i.e, talented big-hitting competition...
>
>


Wtf? Goran/Krajicek/Courier/Flipper etc etc. Sampras was just way
better than any player who ever lived. Fed's scratched the surface but
has a loooong way to go....


01 Mar 2005 02:46:25
Ram
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Agassi is still pretty impressive...


You have to remember that in most recent tournaments, Agassi often only

loses against Fed, 04 USO, 05 AO, this week-end in Dubai, etc.


Granted he hasn't faced a Roddick/Hewitt or Safin recently, you have to

wonder how far he'd go if it weren't for Fed in these tourneys...

Agreed



01 Mar 2005 06:04:20
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > Yes, that's a barrier Fed faces that Sampras didn't face a decade ago
when
> > he was establishing his era, i.e, talented big-hitting competition...

> Wtf? Goran/Krajicek/Courier/Flipper etc etc.

goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...





01 Mar 2005 04:38:27
Ram
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Flipper is poor



01 Mar 2005 13:10:52
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:58:25 +1100, Whisper <[email protected] >
wrote:

>Luke Croll wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 23:31:08 +1100, Whisper <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Yes, he'll be thinking 'I've won everything this yr except AO/FO, so
>>>>>better not blow this'..
>>>>>
>>>>>Roddick/Ancic/Nadal are real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Roddick/Ancic may well be the real danger guys for Fed at Wimbledon, but
>>>>Nadal
>>>>will be a canon folder for Fed on grass, it will be straight set victory
>>>>for Fed if
>>>>he plays Nadal in Wimbledon, on clay Nadal can certainly win against Fed.
>>>
>>>Ancic thrashed Federer in straight sets at Wimbledon, & indeed he is the
>>>last guy to beat him there. Nadal wallopped Ancic at Wimbledon the
>>>following yr as a 16 yr old.
>>
>>
>> The Federer who lost to Ancic is not the same Federer who has won two
>> consecutive Wimbledon titles (and two Halle titles too).
>
>Right, but he was super-Fed when he beat Sampras the yr before.....

Not at all. You get these freak results when people first start
getting an idea of how they can play. Srichaphan beat Agassi at
Wimbledon in a massive shock, but he's never really recreated that
form. Federer has been able to. Various random upsets happen in events
throughout the year. Often it's a one-off, sometimes it's not.

>He's a much
>> better player now. I was surprised at the quality of Ancic's play last
>> year when he thrashed Henman, but I doubt that Federer would fall to
>> Ancic again. Roddick is definitely a threat, as proven by the fact
>> that he took a set off Fed last year.
>
>Ancic definitely has the firepower to beat Fed at Wimbledon again.

Well, we haven't seen much evidence of it yet so far.

>> As for Nadal, I'm afraid I agree with the previous poster. I can't see
>> him doing well on the grass at all. On clay, yes, he's looking like a
>> major threat, but not on grass. He hardly 'walloped' Ancic, either, as
>> he won 6-3 6-4 4-6 6-4. Solid, but it's not as though he was dishing
>> out bagels left and right. He followed it up with a win over Lee
>> Childs, which is nothing impressive at all and then lost in straights
>> to Srichaphan, who can play reasonably well on grass.
>
>
>
>Um, he was 16 & a Spansih dirtballer. You figure he's peaked already...?

Not on clay, no. On grass, maybe. He could well turn into one of those
people who claim that they can't, or don't know how, to play on it.
We'll see this year, I suppose.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


01 Mar 2005 14:25:56
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"StephenJ" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> if safin could keep his head on and roddick improve his backhand, you'd
> have 2 big hitters facing fed..obviously, agassi/hewitt are canon fodder
> for
> fed, i bet inside he's actually laughing when he plays those 2..
>
> Yes, that's a barrier Fed faces that Sampras didn't face a decade ago when
> he was establishing his era, i.e, talented big-hitting competition...

the first item in my paragraph is the word "IF" steven! fed isn't facing it
yet..

bob




01 Mar 2005 14:27:10
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi

"StephenJ" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>> > Yes, that's a barrier Fed faces that Sampras didn't face a decade ago
> when
>> > he was establishing his era, i.e, talented big-hitting competition...
>
>> Wtf? Goran/Krajicek/Courier/Flipper etc etc.
>
> goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...

as opposed to roddick/safin! priceless!

bob




01 Mar 2005 08:47:29
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...
>
> as opposed to roddick/safin! priceless!

those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
goran/flipper/krajicek.


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





01 Mar 2005 19:47:32
Mikko Ämmälä
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"StephenJ" <[email protected] > kirjoitti viestissä
news:eg%[email protected]
> > > goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...
> >
> > as opposed to roddick/safin! priceless!
>
> those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
> goran/flipper/krajicek.

Roddick infact has been really consistent. The last 10 slams he has played:
1 win, 1 rup 3 sf 3qf

He also consistently wins a few tuneups / season...

Safin of course quite goranish...

.mikko





02 Mar 2005 07:43:11
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Luke Croll wrote:
>>
>>Um, he was 16 & a Spansih dirtballer. You figure he's peaked already...?
>
>
> Not on clay, no. On grass, maybe. He could well turn into one of those
> people who claim that they can't, or don't know how, to play on it.
> We'll see this year, I suppose.



Some of us know without listening to the player.


01 Mar 2005 15:31:33
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi


> > those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
> > goran/flipper/krajicek.
>
> Roddick infact has been really consistent. The last 10 slams he has
played:
> 1 win, 1 rup 3 sf 3qf
>
> He also consistently wins a few tuneups / season...
>
> Safin of course quite goranish...

.. except Safin has won 2 slams by age 25, whereas Goran failed to win any
before 30.


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





01 Mar 2005 20:32:45
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Mikko Ämmälä" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "StephenJ" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä
> news:eg%[email protected]
>> > > goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...
>> >
>> > as opposed to roddick/safin! priceless!
>>
>> those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
>> goran/flipper/krajicek.
>
> Roddick infact has been really consistent. The last 10 slams he has
> played:
> 1 win, 1 rup 3 sf 3qf
>
> He also consistently wins a few tuneups / season...
>
> Safin of course quite goranish...


After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very far,
Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!) finals

Sydney l. to Martin (Hard)
Zagreb d. Pioline (Carpet)
Dubai d. Costa (Hard)
Antwerp l. to Stich (Carpet)
Milan d. Rosset (Carpet)
Rotterdam d. Kafelnikov (Carpet)

and then to top it off he reached Key Biscayne final, defeating #1 Sampras
in semis, before retiring vs. Agassi. Of course mixed up in all this is 3R
loss to Renzo Furlan at AO ...









02 Mar 2005 21:03:00
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Hops wrote:

> "Mikko Ämmälä" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"StephenJ" <[email protected]> kirjoitti viestissä
>>news:eg%[email protected]
>>
>>>>>goran/krajicek and flipper were flaky ...
>>>>
>>>>as opposed to roddick/safin! priceless!
>>>
>>>those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
>>>goran/flipper/krajicek.
>>
>>Roddick infact has been really consistent. The last 10 slams he has
>>played:
>>1 win, 1 rup 3 sf 3qf
>>
>>He also consistently wins a few tuneups / season...
>>
>>Safin of course quite goranish...
>
>
>
> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very far,
> Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!) finals
>
> Sydney l. to Martin (Hard)
> Zagreb d. Pioline (Carpet)
> Dubai d. Costa (Hard)
> Antwerp l. to Stich (Carpet)
> Milan d. Rosset (Carpet)
> Rotterdam d. Kafelnikov (Carpet)
>
> and then to top it off he reached Key Biscayne final, defeating #1 Sampras
> in semis, before retiring vs. Agassi. Of course mixed up in all this is 3R
> loss to Renzo Furlan at AO ...
>


He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
least 4 Wimbledons.



02 Mar 2005 20:23:11
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Whisper" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hops wrote:
>

>> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>> far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!)
>> finals
>>
>
> He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
> least 4 Wimbledons.


coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.













02 Mar 2005 20:42:43
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Hops" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Hops wrote:
>>
>
>>> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>>> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>>> far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!)
>>> finals
>>>
>>
>> He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>> least 4 Wimbledons.
>
>
> coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.


will add that I find this comparison interesting:


Goran at Wimbledon:

1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from losing.


Agassi at Roland Garros:

1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
five setters and was once two points from losing.



Goran is "underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at least
4 Wimbledons."


Agassi is dismissed as 'fluke'.









02 Mar 2005 23:24:32
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> will add that I find this comparison interesting:

lol - another good one, hops. whisper's capacity to absorb punishment on the
agassi issue is astonishing. you keep debunking him, but he keeps bouncing
back for me... ;)


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





03 Mar 2005 23:01:26
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Hops wrote:

> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>Hops wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>>>>players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>>>>far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!)
>>>>finals
>>>>
>>>
>>>He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>>>least 4 Wimbledons.
>>
>>
>>coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.
>
>
>
> will add that I find this comparison interesting:
>
>
> Goran at Wimbledon:
>
> 1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from losing.
>
>
> Agassi at Roland Garros:
>
> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
> five setters and was once two points from losing.
>

Agassi played a lot longer than Goran.

Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win a
few Wimbledons - Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of AOs...



>
>
> Goran is "underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at least
> 4 Wimbledons."
>
>
> Agassi is dismissed as 'fluke'.
>

When compared to tier 1 guys, Agassi is very unconvincing champ & his
claims are paper thin....



03 Mar 2005 04:22:33
Ram
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win
a
few Wimbledons - Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of
AOs...

How many times did he beat Sampras at Wimbledon? Can someone find out?
Agassi was never fave at FO, but neither was Goran at Wimbledon, and
for one simpke reason: Sampras.

1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included
two
> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from
losing.


> Agassi at Roland Garros:


> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included
two
> five setters and was once two points from losing.

So on this evidence, Agassi's FO win was marginally more of a fluke
than Goran's 2001 W win. Big deal, I'm sure Andre will be worrying
about that long after his retirement.



03 Mar 2005 13:05:17
Luke Croll
Re: Federer beats Agassi

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 07:43:11 +1100, Whisper <[email protected] >
wrote:

>Luke Croll wrote:
>>>
>>>Um, he was 16 & a Spansih dirtballer. You figure he's peaked already...?
>>
>>
>> Not on clay, no. On grass, maybe. He could well turn into one of those
>> people who claim that they can't, or don't know how, to play on it.
>> We'll see this year, I suppose.
>
>
>
>Some of us know without listening to the player.

Well, his actions will always speak louder than your words.
--
Luke Croll
The alt.books.dean-koontz FAQ is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~abdk-faq/faq.htm
The ABDK Castle is at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~koontz-castle/


04 Mar 2005 00:28:16
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"StephenJ" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>> > those guys are inconsistent, but not in the same flaky class as
>> > goran/flipper/krajicek.
>>
>> Roddick infact has been really consistent. The last 10 slams he has
> played:
>> 1 win, 1 rup 3 sf 3qf
>>
>> He also consistently wins a few tuneups / season...
>>
>> Safin of course quite goranish...
>
> .. except Safin has won 2 slams by age 25, whereas Goran failed to win any
> before 30.

thanks to peak sampras.

bob




04 Mar 2005 00:31:16
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Hops" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> Hops wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>>>> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>>>> far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!)
>>>> finals
>>>>
>>>
>>> He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>>> least 4 Wimbledons.
>>
>>
>> coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.
>
>
> will add that I find this comparison interesting:
>
>
> Goran at Wimbledon:
>
> 1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from
> losing.
>
>
> Agassi at Roland Garros:
>
> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
> five setters and was once two points from losing.

did sampras ever get thrashed by gomes types at a W final? :-)

bob




03 Mar 2005 19:15:38
StephenJ
Re: Federer beats Agassi

> > .. except Safin has won 2 slams by age 25, whereas Goran failed to win
any
> > before 30.
>
> thanks to peak sampras.

no, thanks to every other guy who ever beat him at a slam - there were lots
of them...


--
I do not think the United States would come to an end if
we lost our power to declare an Act of Congress void. I do
think the Union would be imperiled if we could not make
that declaration as to the laws of the several States.

- Oliver Wendell Holmes, on the SCOTUS





03 Mar 2005 20:21:14
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"bob" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:o%[email protected]
>
> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> Hops wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>>>>> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>>>>> far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6
>>>>> (!)
>>>>> finals
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>>>> least 4 Wimbledons.
>>>
>>>
>>> coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.
>>
>>
>> will add that I find this comparison interesting:
>>
>>
>> Goran at Wimbledon:
>>
>> 1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
>> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from
>> losing.
>>
>>
>> Agassi at Roland Garros:
>>
>> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
>> five setters and was once two points from losing.
>
> did sampras ever get thrashed by gomes types at a W final? :-)


not sure how sampras relates to all this ... if you mean Goran, he lost to
Stoltenberg, Clement, T. Martin, M. Norman, and the immortal Nick Brown at
Wimbledon.











03 Mar 2005 20:21:58
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Whisper" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Hops wrote:
>
>> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>>"Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]
>>>
>>>>Hops wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find other
>>>>>players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look very
>>>>>far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6 (!)
>>>>>finals
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>>>>least 4 Wimbledons.
>>>
>>>
>>>coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.
>>
>>
>>
>> will add that I find this comparison interesting:
>>
>>
>> Goran at Wimbledon:
>>
>> 1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
>> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from
>> losing.
>>
>>
>> Agassi at Roland Garros:
>>
>> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
>> five setters and was once two points from losing.
>>
>
> Agassi played a lot longer than Goran.


Not in this case. Goran played 15 Wimbledons; Agassi 16 RGs. Check the
stats I posted dumbo.



> Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win a
> few Wimbledons


Agassi was favored in both 90 and 91 finals. Shoulda won 3 FO if we're
entering couldawouldaland.


- Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of
> AOs...


not true.


>> Goran is "underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>> least 4 Wimbledons."
>>
>>
>> Agassi is dismissed as 'fluke'.
>>
>
> When compared to tier 1 guys, Agassi is very unconvincing champ & his
> claims are paper thin....


total non sequitur, as usual.








03 Mar 2005 20:22:03
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Ram" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win
> a
> few Wimbledons - Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of
> AOs...
>
> How many times did he beat Sampras at Wimbledon? Can someone find out?

once, 92 SF.


> Agassi was never fave at FO,

dunno about that. Going into 91 and 95 RG wouldn't surprise me if he was
the betting favorite.







03 Mar 2005 20:24:26
Hops
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Hops" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Ram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win
>> a
>> few Wimbledons - Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of
>> AOs...
>>
>> How many times did he beat Sampras at Wimbledon? Can someone find out?
>
> once, 92 SF.
>
>
>> Agassi was never fave at FO,
>
> dunno about that. Going into 91 and 95 RG wouldn't surprise me if he was
> the betting favorite.


scratch 95, forgot about Muster. But he was top five clay from 1988-95, so
by definition one of the RG favorites each year.









04 Mar 2005 21:52:25
Whisper
Re: Federer beats Agassi

Hops wrote:

> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>"Ram" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]
>>
>>>Goran beat every great player at Wimbledon & looked a certainty to win
>>>a
>>>few Wimbledons - Agassi never looked fave anywhere except a couple of
>>>AOs...
>>>
>>>How many times did he beat Sampras at Wimbledon? Can someone find out?
>>
>>once, 92 SF.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Agassi was never fave at FO,
>>
>>dunno about that. Going into 91 and 95 RG wouldn't surprise me if he was
>>the betting favorite.
>
>
>
> scratch 95, forgot about Muster.

Not your fault. Bumrooters are forgettable....


08 Mar 2005 02:00:49
bob
Re: Federer beats Agassi


"Hops" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:o%[email protected]
>>
>> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>>
>>> "Hops" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>
>>>> "Whisper" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]
>>>>> Hops wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> After Ljubicic made his fourth final of the year I tried to find
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> players who had done so before Indian Wells. Didn't have to look
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> far, Moya did it last year. But I also found Goran '96, who made 6
>>>>>> (!)
>>>>>> finals
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> He's only underrated by clueless types. Take Sampras away & he has at
>>>>> least 4 Wimbledons.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> coulda woulda? I doubt it. Too flaky.
>>>
>>>
>>> will add that I find this comparison interesting:
>>>
>>>
>>> Goran at Wimbledon:
>>>
>>> 1 W, 3 F, 2 SF, 1 QF; 49-14 // 77.8% overall. Winning run included two
>>> five setters and was once (more than once, actually) two points from
>>> losing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agassi at Roland Garros:
>>>
>>> 1 W, 2 F, 2 SF, 4 QF; 51-15 // 77.3% overall. Winning run included two
>>> five setters and was once two points from losing.
>>
>> did sampras ever get thrashed by gomes types at a W final? :-)
>
>
> not sure how sampras relates to all this ... if you mean Goran, he lost to
> Stoltenberg, Clement, T. Martin, M. Norman, and the immortal Nick Brown at
> Wimbledon.

i meant goran, and you shouldn't look at gorn when he played for yrs at
wimbledon, although battling shoulder probs for the entire yr.

bob