21 Aug 2003 22:03:10
johns
Forward edge jumps

Why are there no forward edge jumps? I've been
playing around with them, and they have a lot of
potential as very powerful jumps. Must be because
they would all have to be 1 1/2 revs ?? since the
required landing is BO edge ?? Even so, if you
use the standard of jumping after 180 rotation on
the ice, you can feel a very powerful edge in the
takeoff. There is also one that is like a Lutz in that
if I cross ( going forward ) R behind L and check
cw with my arms, I can simulate an axel easily. I
think it might even be much more powerful than
an axel ... in both spin and height.

johns




22 Aug 2003 08:28:36
Annabel Smyth
Re: Forward edge jumps

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 at 22:03:10, johns <[email protected] > wrote:

>Why are there no forward edge jumps?

And what, exactly, do you think a 3-jump or an axel are?
--
Annabel Smyth mailto:[email protected]
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 6 July 2003


22 Aug 2003 10:25:19
George P
Re: Forward edge jumps

Well, exactly, doesn't the Waltz and Axel qualify for you? Petkevich also
mentions the 'Inside Axel'. It is 1 1/2 revs from a RFI take-off. He doesn't
rates it very highly, says the free leg doesn't contribute to the height of
the jump like a normal Axel so the whole thing is a bit wimpy:

'By itself, the inside Axel is not a particularly dramatic jump. This is
because of the placement of the body on the take-off and the effect that
that has on the take-off edge. A take-off from a FI edge means that the free
leg is on the inside of the circle created by the edge. In this position,
the free leg cannot pass forward to aid in the spring from the ice, since it
would be moving in a direction opposite to the inherent rotation of the edge
and the jump. Since the free leg must remain virtually passive, the
rotational movement of the upper body and arms creates a cery deep take-off
edge. Therefore, most of the force is rotational, leaving little force
available to lift into the air. For these reasons, the inside Axel is most
frequently used as a part of a more complex jump sequence'.

(Petkevich, J., M. 'Figure Skating, Championship Techniques'. Sports
Illustrated, (1989), New York)

GP


johns <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Why are there no forward edge jumps? I've been
> playing around with them, and they have a lot of
> potential as very powerful jumps. Must be because
> they would all have to be 1 1/2 revs ?? since the
> required landing is BO edge ?? Even so, if you
> use the standard of jumping after 180 rotation on
> the ice, you can feel a very powerful edge in the
> takeoff. There is also one that is like a Lutz in that
> if I cross ( going forward ) R behind L and check
> cw with my arms, I can simulate an axel easily. I
> think it might even be much more powerful than
> an axel ... in both spin and height.
>
> johns
>
>




22 Aug 2003 19:52:38
johns
Re: Forward edge jumps


> Well, exactly, doesn't the Waltz and Axel qualify for you?

No .. if you go by the screwed up standards. For example,
a flip ( ccw ) is said to go off the LBI "edge" ... not the toe
pick. The toe-pick just assists. And since I finally figured
out what they mean by that, I have a nice dragged LBI
edge flip.

Petkevich also
> mentions the 'Inside Axel'. It is 1 1/2 revs from a RFI take-off. He
doesn't
> rates it very highly, says the free leg doesn't contribute to the height
of
> the jump like a normal Axel so the whole thing is a bit wimpy:

I'll have to read it ... book has disappeared again. However, if
the Inside Axel ( ccw ) is blocked at the Lskate, but the spin
is created *on the ice* by pivoting quickly on the RFI edge,
then that is exactly what I am talking about. I can do that too,
and it is very low, but very powerful .. especially in the spin.
I also know how to get height in that jump ... by sweeping
the RFI edge from behind, and just when the Rskate would
come in front of the Lskate, I drive the Rknee up sharply
towards my Lshoulder. That gets good height plus good
spin. It is a powerful jump.

> that has on the take-off edge. A take-off from a FI edge means that the
free
> leg is on the inside of the circle created by the edge.

That's where it should be in a ccw axel ... and it comes
naturally rather than making the axel a "switch-axis" jump.
It is a more natural jump, and works without thinking.

In this position,
> the free leg cannot pass forward to aid in the spring from the ice,

Feels like it does to me. As I sweep the edge coming from
a crossed up position, the Rskate drives into the Lskate
just like a takeoff by a track jumper over a bar. Isn't that
also the way a loop jump works? The crossed up skate in
front doesn't have to come behind the skater. It comes just
enough to drive into the trailing skate, and then goes up
sharply to press the trailing skate into the ice for the block.
Thus, the forward edge jumps are 2-foot jumps ... just
like the back edge jumps.

johns




22 Aug 2003 19:56:35
johns
Re: Forward edge jumps


> And what, exactly, do you think a 3-jump or an axel are?

Not as they are performed anymore. The free skate is
pretty much in the air. If the free skate was swept on the
ice with a blocking assist from the other skate ... THAT
is what I am calling a forward edged jump. Closest
example in a back edged jump is the pick-assisted
flip where the free skate is pulled back with assist from
the toe-pick with is just placed on the ice, and used
to pull the free skate on edge back to it.

johns