27 Nov 2004 23:46:19
johns
Back cross strokes

I actually did them today .. for real. I got a true outside
edge push, and was able to maintain the swing step and
continuous outside edge pushes for about 10 strokes
... and then they were gone. At this rate ... 2 years.
Something got right, and I "discovered" them. I think I
was moving more or less straight back and I only
deviated about 1 foot to each side .. and then I managed
to get on the continous curve that I was actually shaping
with 2 skates .. i.e. the push, but the rollover to the
outside edge at more or less the same time.

johns




28 Nov 2004 07:27:28
Kay
Re: Back cross strokes


"johns" <[email protected] > wrote
> I actually did them today .. for real. I got a true outside
> edge push, and was able to maintain the swing step and
> continuous outside edge pushes for about 10 strokes
> ... and then they were gone.

They will be back! For me, this is one of those moves that can mysteriously
improve w/o any effort and can disappear even when I work it regularly. Do
you practice BO swing rolls? I think this is a good drill for back xstrokes.

My coach taught me a piece of footwork this wknd incorporating back xstrokes
into back outside double threes. Since I have to do the double threes fast
and in context they feel much more awkward. I have to work on this one.

Kay
www.skatejournal.com





28 Nov 2004 12:11:02
e-skater
Re: Back cross strokes

"Kay" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> My coach taught me a piece of footwork this wknd incorporating back xstrokes
> into back outside double threes. Since I have to do the double threes fast
> and in context they feel much more awkward. I have to work on this one.
>
> Kay
> www.skatejournal.com

This is impressive!


28 Nov 2004 12:14:36
e-skater
Re: Back cross strokes

"johns" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I actually did them today .. for real. I got a true outside
> edge push, and was able to maintain the swing step and
> continuous outside edge pushes for about 10 strokes
> ... and then they were gone. At this rate ... 2 years.
> Something got right, and I "discovered" them. I think I
> was moving more or less straight back and I only
> deviated about 1 foot to each side .. and then I managed
> to get on the continous curve that I was actually shaping
> with 2 skates .. i.e. the push, but the rollover to the
> outside edge at more or less the same time.
>
> johns

Good for you, johns! We have begun to revisit my poor versions of
this skill. I can see from what happens on the forward cross stroke
what *should* happen on the back cross stroke. You hit the nail on
the head with "I managed
> to get on the continous curve that I was actually shaping
> with 2 skates". Just beginning to feel that on the back cross strokes. Am hitting an edge now instead of so much toe pick. Still much work to do, it's still a "fall" rather than the push and rollover I'm seeking.


28 Nov 2004 17:43:31
Kay
Re: Back cross strokes


"e-skater" <[email protected] > wrote
> This is impressive!

I doubt you would say that if you saw me do them! But it's the thought that
counts. ;)

Kay
www.skatejournal.com





28 Nov 2004 16:59:43
johns
Re: Back cross strokes

Lesson today: I was shown the arm timing and how to
"ride the edge" more. In riding the edge, that gives the
opposite moving arms time to complete the check, and
time to bend the glide knee into the push position. I
was pushing way too early, and then I had no arm check
which helps to roll the rear skate to its new outside edge.
I found that I got OK back cross steps when I rode the
edge completely around the curve several feet while the
arms were crossing up, and then I sat and pushed as
the arm check released. Without that timing it is difficult
to sustain the move. However, I did find that by knowing
what to do, I could nearly stop, and then start again
because the move does not rely entirely on momentum.
It relies on "riding the edge" so that the entire process
completes on each stroke. Also, a nice drill to train the
concept of riding the edge is to start back xovers, and
then rise on the inside skate, and rotate the arms out
of the circle, look over the outside shoulder which is
pulled well back, put the free skate to the heel, and
"ride that edge". While riding that edge sit fairly deep
and push out of the circle with the outside edge while
at the exact same time reversing the arms to roll the
new glide skate to its outside edge ... repeat to both
sides, and then start connecting the two .. remembering
to ride the edge well around as the knee bends to a
sit and push. It took me a solid hour of trying over and
over to get this timing starting to work. Coach makes
it look really simple, and by the time I get it, I'm sure it
will feel really simple, but this is not a simple move done
properly. Good lesson! Good coach!

johns




29 Nov 2004 10:57:24
Mrs Redboots
Re: Back cross strokes

johns wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sun, 28 Nov 2004:

>Lesson today: I was shown the arm timing and how to
>"ride the edge" more. In riding the edge, that gives the
>opposite moving arms time to complete the check, and
>time to bend the glide knee into the push position. I
>was pushing way too early, and then I had no arm check
>which helps to roll the rear skate to its new outside edge.
>I found that I got OK back cross steps when I rode the
>edge completely around the curve several feet while the
>arms were crossing up, and then I sat and pushed as
>the arm check released. Without that timing it is difficult
>to sustain the move. However, I did find that by knowing
>what to do, I could nearly stop, and then start again
>because the move does not rely entirely on momentum.
>It relies on "riding the edge" so that the entire process
>completes on each stroke.

And that's the bit I find so hard (the "riding the edge").

One tip that helped - it wasn't in my lesson, but in someone else's, and
I overheard - was "point your heel at the opposite barrier".

I can do these relatively well - not passable yet, alas, but improving -
as an exercise. Why is it that when I try them in a dance, or an
Interpretive Pairs piece, they are terrible????
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:[email protected]
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 28 November 2004




29 Nov 2004 18:47:01
e-skater
Re: Back cross strokes

"johns" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
Also, a nice drill to train the
> concept of riding the edge is to start back xovers, and
> then rise on the inside skate, and rotate the arms out
> of the circle, look over the outside shoulder which is
> pulled well back, put the free skate to the heel, and
> "ride that edge".
> johns

My coach *just* showed me a drill which sounds similar, except the
free skate is not at the heel, but held kind of at angle, foot turned
out, while riding the edge. I tried to apply this to actually doing
the back cross strokes today, and experienced a modicum of success
with less "fall" to the new skating foot. I even had one where I
could have sworn I actually pushed from the edge.....I'll keep trying.
Thx for info. Sounds like it was a good lesson.


29 Nov 2004 23:54:30
johns
Re: Back cross strokes


> as an exercise. Why is it that when I try them in a dance, or an
> Interpretive Pairs piece, they are terrible????

For me the timing has to be perfect. Any hesitation or distraction
breaks the rhythm, and that generates a pause in my shoulder
and arm check. I have learned to wait for the edge to come
around, but it doesn't look good when I do that.

johns




30 Nov 2004 14:06:59
Mrs Redboots
Re: Back cross strokes

johns wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 29 Nov 2004:

>
>> as an exercise. Why is it that when I try them in a dance, or an
>> Interpretive Pairs piece, they are terrible????
>
>For me the timing has to be perfect. Any hesitation or distraction
>breaks the rhythm, and that generates a pause in my shoulder
>and arm check. I have learned to wait for the edge to come
>around, but it doesn't look good when I do that.
>
Just as a postscript - husband tested Level 3 Dance moves, which
involves one lap of these and one lap of back cross-cuts (where you
cross your feet in front of you on to an outside edge) this morning, and
scraped (almost literally) through! Now he's a test a head of me -
bother!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:[email protected]
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 28 November 2004




30 Nov 2004 13:12:55
e-skater
Re: Back cross strokes

Mrs Redboots <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> johns wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Mon, 29 Nov 2004:
>
> >
> >> as an exercise. Why is it that when I try them in a dance, or an
> >> Interpretive Pairs piece, they are terrible????
> >
> >For me the timing has to be perfect. Any hesitation or distraction
> >breaks the rhythm, and that generates a pause in my shoulder
> >and arm check. I have learned to wait for the edge to come
> >around, but it doesn't look good when I do that.
> >
> Just as a postscript - husband tested Level 3 Dance moves, which
> involves one lap of these and one lap of back cross-cuts (where you
> cross your feet in front of you on to an outside edge) this morning, and
> scraped (almost literally) through! Now he's a test a head of me -
> bother!

Hey, congrats to hubby! Good job. These are hard. I will probably
never be able to test them!