21 Mar 2005 13:27:22
Darby Wiggins
Worlds, Kwan ect

Well, I must say, I was very disappointed at many of the performances
this year. I don't have a list in front of me, so my comments are off
the top of my head.....

Ladies:
Kwan: really lost the podium in the Qualifying. Granted, she was
slightly under 5 points behind after the qualifying, but the Bolero
program never did get anywhere. When I heard she was skating to it, I
thought she had a big hill to climb. The music doesn't lend itself to
skating unless the skater can take control of the music - something I
thought only Kwan could do. Unfortunately, I don't feel she did. Ironic
because C. Dean participated in the choreography. She was so tentative
and for the first time, I really began to see how slim her choreography
was. In fact, I was rather shocked. I think Kwan is one of those skaters
who can do more with less...ie she can get away with less choreography
as long as what she does is done well, but I really saw no real
innovation with this program. A lot of skating on two feet, stroking
around but nothing in the way of innovative choreography or difficulty.
I was truly disappointed. Granted, her second try at Bolero was better -
more attack and more jumps but IMO - the program was flawed from its
inception and if she skated it her best, it still would have been a
disappointment. I preferred her dark blue costume but did not care for
the side slits. The Gold costume was not a favorite. Her Spartacus
program was good. But I think I was just so dismayed at her Bolero
performances that I wasn't paying much attention. She needs to figure
out her spiral sequence under COP and spin faster and get her 3 loop
back (any idea what the problem is?) and a 3/3 combo.

I hope she takes some time to think about what she wants for the next
season and begins to put together 2 great programs and takes part in the
GP...I think had she this year, it would have made a world of
difference. I predict that she will retire after Turino. I'm not sure
she has it in her to really learn and manipulate COP to her benefit past
Turino. I suspect she'll do what she has to to stay competitive then
retire. I'm not sure the motivation to continue after Turino in the new
COP is there. I also think its a system that is not structured in such a
way that it highlights her strengths.

Sasha skated nicely and I was happy to see her put some good programs
back to back but I get the sense that I keep seeing her skate the same
programs over and over... just a different costume and different music.
I'm not sure that makes any sense but I see absolutely no original
thought in her programs. I'd like to see her stretch out and try
something new. Stop recycling the same movements, same tricks, same safe
spot. New music (no more of this simplistic pretty classical music she
skates too...somthing new!!!), choreography, ect. I'm also wondering
why she isn't marked down (or at least its not commented on) on her jump
landings. She is often way back on the heel of her boot and the landings
are not smooth. If you watch her, there is a slight jerk and
unsteadiness in it. Watch the landing - the wild free-leg swinging
around to check the landing. Having spent umpteen years skating, I know
that feeling (landing a jump and being far back on the heel and swinging
the free leg wildly around to check the landing. Its a feeling of being
out of control and trying to hang on to the landing) and its not one of
a secure landing. Am I the only one who sees this?

Slute was already going to win regardless. She looks great and who can't
love her. She seems like such a warm person. Her skating has always been
very different than Kwans and Cohen's. Kwan being a delicious mix of
tension and liquid smooth, Cohen being tight and firm and Slute being
free, irreverent and sometimes sloppy. Her triple/triples looked good.
Her spins unique but I agree, they can be very sloppy at times. I think
that Slute is somehow able to draw the judges in with her personality
and style to such a point that they over look the sloppiness of her
skating. Anyhow, it was good to have her back

Carolina - Good young skater but I would have not placed her above Kwan
when it was all done. Technically, she was better on the jumps and spins
but the second mark doesn't come close to Kwan. She has a very nice true
lutz and is so straight in the air. I like her speed and wish Kwan would
take a lesson from her. Carolina is still a bit awkward and lanky...like
a young fawn still trying to find its legs. She doesn't jump far but can
jump high.

Kirk - I think she will go down in history as one of the better skaters
who just couldn't get up to the top but had all the talent in the world
to.

Shizuka - Did she cut her hair? She looked different. I remember seeing
her a few years ago and she was awkward and rather unpleasant to watch
from a stylistic viewpoint. She wins the award for the most improved in
that category. Funny thing....Does she speak much english? I've never
heard her and I've never her TT speak much either...so, how do they
communicate?...does TT know Japanese? Only in figure skating do we find
a Japanese skater training in CT with a diva of all Russian coaches. Oh,
I like this costume better...at least better than the swan in a straight
jacket one..

Men:
Nice to see new folks on the podium. I'm not certain that any of these
will have much staying power. They are all talented but I think that
they benefited from Plushy's WD, Joubert's meltdown, Geoble's implosion
and great skates on all parts. All three of them have a track record of
inconsistency. What this podium does tell us is that there are far more
men capable of winning than actually have but injury and consistency
issues have hampered them. I had hoped to see Jonny but it wasn't his
time. However, I think he's in it for the long haul. I'm wondering what
is up with Goeble. While I have no evidence to back up my hunch, I think
he is on the back half of his career. Between his boot issues, coaching
changes and imo, some personal issues that he has alluded to I'd wonder
if he can get it back on track.

Dance, Good for Tanith and Ben. The sad thing is that with 3 spots for
the US in Turnio, based on the most recent US nationals results, teams
in 3rd, 6th and 9th (not exactly certain on this) would be the only one
eligible for the Olympics. In a way, I find it a bit unfair - but I
think its because I have a hard time reconciling that someone who
finishes in say, 8th place at nationals could go to the olympics. I
suspect its just my own personal feeling that a countries best should go
to the olympics.

Darby



21 Mar 2005 11:19:01
Mary H
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

I like Slutskya(sp?) and am happy she won, but does anyone agree with
me that the Bielman spin is just not attractive? I know it's
physically demanding, but it's a very ugly body position, IMHO, and
Irini does WAY too may of them. The other skaters' spins and spirals
are so much prettier.



21 Mar 2005 14:33:21
Darby Wiggins
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

I agree...its not that attractive. I suppose the most unattractive part
is getting into position. However, under COP , its seems like its worth
more than just a great spiral with a change of edge or a great spin with
some edge changes...
Darby

Mary H wrote:

> I like Slutskya(sp?) and am happy she won, but does anyone agree with
> me that the Bielman spin is just not attractive? I know it's
> physically demanding, but it's a very ugly body position, IMHO, and
> Irini does WAY too may of them. The other skaters' spins and spirals
> are so much prettier.



21 Mar 2005 14:20:22
Shillelagh
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


"Mary H" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I like Slutskya(sp?) and am happy she won, but does anyone agree with
> me that the Bielman spin is just not attractive? I know it's
> physically demanding, but it's a very ugly body position, IMHO, and
> Irini does WAY too may of them. The other skaters' spins and spirals
> are so much prettier.

I agree. I HATE the Bielman with a passion, except done by Lucinda Ruh.
Irina's Bielman (catch foot) spiral has got to be one of the ugliest things
I've ever seen. And for some reason, she's usually shown doing it from a
front view, so we get to see ugly underarm bones sticking out, and it looks
like it's all she can do to hold on to her blade. Ick. At least a side view
would be more appealing to look at. My guess is that the reason she does so
many of them is the extra points to be gained.

Another thing we can thank COP for (I think) are all the UGLY inside edge
spins. I get nauseated watching them rotate. Bleah.

Shelagh




21 Mar 2005 13:17:24
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

I think it's possible that the repetitive jumping has finally taken its
toll on this generation of skaters....lots of injuries to all kinds of
skaters in all the countries. Repetitive hip, groin, knee, leg, back
injuries, we hear about over and over. This would account for the
poor performances or at least some of them. Less guys are doing quads
today and doing them well. It's a sorry sight, but this is what the
ISU wanted....more difficult routines and the ongoing wear and tear on
the young bodies.
Wave of the future too. It won't get any easier. Yuck.


Doria



21 Mar 2005 17:28:30
roj
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Darby Wiggins wrote:

> Ladies:
> Kwan:
> I hope she takes some time to think about what she wants for the next
> season and begins to put together 2 great programs and takes part in
the
> GP...I think had she this year, it would have made a world of
> difference. I predict that she will retire after Turino. I'm not sure
> she has it in her to really learn and manipulate COP to her benefit
past
> Turino. I suspect she'll do what she has to to stay competitive then
> retire. I'm not sure the motivation to continue after Turino in the
new
> COP is there. I also think its a system that is not structured in
such a
> way that it highlights her strengths.

The CoP is not the end of Kwan. She got third place in the free skate.
If she can do that with a program as bad as Bolero, I think the top is
within reach for her. I really hate the Bolero and I knew that it would
suck at Worlds. The music just does not lend itself to her style or her
strengths.



21 Mar 2005 17:31:57
roj
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Mary H wrote:
> I like Slutskya(sp?) and am happy she won, but does anyone agree with
> me that the Bielman spin is just not attractive? I know it's
> physically demanding, but it's a very ugly body position, IMHO, and
> Irini does WAY too may of them. The other skaters' spins and spirals
> are so much prettier.

I agree. It looks difficult, but is not attractive. Not only did she do
three spins that way, but she also used that posture once in her
spiral. She just over does it.

But I really liked her Olay "Ice Moves" diatribe on how she does it.
That was adorable.



22 Mar 2005 07:58:18
Fudge
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


"Shillelagh" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:B%F%d.1882[email protected]
>
> "Mary H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I like Slutskya(sp?) and am happy she won, but does anyone agree with
> > me that the Bielman spin is just not attractive? I know it's
> > physically demanding, but it's a very ugly body position, IMHO, and
> > Irini does WAY too may of them. The other skaters' spins and spirals
> > are so much prettier.
>
> I agree. I HATE the Bielman with a passion, except done by Lucinda Ruh.
> Irina's Bielman (catch foot) spiral has got to be one of the ugliest
things
> I've ever seen. And for some reason, she's usually shown doing it from a
> front view, so we get to see ugly underarm bones sticking out, and it
looks
> like it's all she can do to hold on to her blade. Ick. At least a side
view
> would be more appealing to look at. My guess is that the reason she does
so
> many of them is the extra points to be gained.
>
> Another thing we can thank COP for (I think) are all the UGLY inside edge
> spins. I get nauseated watching them rotate. Bleah.
>
> Shelagh

I think they should adopt the Zayak rule, only one Bielman (catch foot)
allowed per program. And why oh why they would allow that in a spiral
sequence is beyond me.

Flaming Beaver

>
>




22 Mar 2005 08:00:52
Fudge
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


"roj" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Darby Wiggins wrote:
>
> > Ladies:
> > Kwan:
> > I hope she takes some time to think about what she wants for the next
> > season and begins to put together 2 great programs and takes part in
> the
> > GP...I think had she this year, it would have made a world of
> > difference. I predict that she will retire after Turino. I'm not sure
> > she has it in her to really learn and manipulate COP to her benefit
> past
> > Turino. I suspect she'll do what she has to to stay competitive then
> > retire. I'm not sure the motivation to continue after Turino in the
> new
> > COP is there. I also think its a system that is not structured in
> such a
> > way that it highlights her strengths.
>
> The CoP is not the end of Kwan. She got third place in the free skate.
> If she can do that with a program as bad as Bolero, I think the top is
> within reach for her. I really hate the Bolero and I knew that it would
> suck at Worlds. The music just does not lend itself to her style or her
> strengths.

Kwan has never done well working with Christopher Dean. I seem to recall
her short program in the early 00's to a medley of Beatle's tunes. She gave
up on that one part way through the season. I think if she had done the
Grand Prix Circuit, she would also have abandoned Bolero before getting to
World's.

Flaming Beaver
>




22 Mar 2005 07:01:05
roj
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Darby Wiggins wrote:
> Well, I must say, I was very disappointed at many of the performances
> this year.

The whole thing was only marginally interesting. I wish Bebe had gone
instead...



22 Mar 2005 11:06:16
Darby Wiggins
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

I wouldn't go that far. I've not yet figured out what Bebe has that sets
her apart, but that JMO. I'm glad kwan went. I think it opened her eyes and
alot of others as well. I just wished Kirk had done better.....
Darby

roj wrote:

> Darby Wiggins wrote:
> > Well, I must say, I was very disappointed at many of the performances
> > this year.
>
> The whole thing was only marginally interesting. I wish Bebe had gone
> instead...



22 Mar 2005 11:16:48
Trish
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


"Fudge" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:FEU%[email protected]

> Kwan has never done well working with Christopher Dean. I seem to recall
> her short program in the early 00's to a medley of Beatle's tunes. She
> gave
> up on that one part way through the season. I think if she had done the
> Grand Prix Circuit, she would also have abandoned Bolero before getting to
> World's.

Kwan worked with Dean on a SP to music from "Rush" for the 2000-2001 season.
Her "A Day in the Life" SP was the previous year. She abandoned "Rush"
after getting negative feedback from the judges and competed with "East of
Eden" as her SP at Nationals and Worlds.

Trish




22 Mar 2005 11:12:09
Topcat
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


> Ladies:
> Kwan: really lost the podium in the Qualifying. Granted, she was
> slightly under 5 points behind after the qualifying, but the Bolero
> program never did get anywhere. When I heard she was skating to it, I
> thought she had a big hill to climb. The music doesn't lend itself to
> skating unless the skater can take control of the music - something I
> thought only Kwan could do. Unfortunately, I don't feel she did.

I agree..and It can get even worse: she can still believe the program
is strong enough to keep it for next season.

> because C. Dean participated in the choreography. She was so
tentative
> and for the first time, I really began to see how slim her
choreography
> was. In fact, I was rather shocked. I think Kwan is one of those
skaters
> who can do more with less...ie she can get away with less
choreography
> as long as what she does is done well, but I really saw no real
> innovation with this program. A lot of skating on two feet, stroking
> around but nothing in the way of innovative choreography or
difficulty.

Yeah...she is taking for granted the fact her previous performances
have been qualified as truly unique. Maybe getting so many 6.0's has
really affected her mindset. Let's admit it: Michelle has been great
all these years but she has been overrated specially on the National
level. IMO judges have made her believe her skating has been worth a
6.0 most of the time and she believed that without realizing her spins
hurt in speed, program concept and also, that some of her trademark
moves have kep t the same aspect. She is not pushing the envelope
anymore which is sad. Still, she is one of my favourite skaters and
still get inspired by her carreer and attitude.



23 Mar 2005 06:17:45
Violina23
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

<<Kwan worked with Dean on a SP to music from "Rush" for the 2000-2001
season.
Her "A Day in the Life" SP was the previous year. She abandoned "Rush"
after getting negative feedback from the judges and competed with "East
of
Eden" as her SP at Nationals and Worlds. >>

And there has been no negative feedback about Bolero? ;)

I admire her effort to use that music, but she forgot the whole "making
it her own" part and just kinda skated around to it :) I guess a lot of
this is because of the COP restructuring, but I was hoping she'd nix it
and go with another program

-Heather



23 Mar 2005 07:04:34
roj
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Darby Wiggins wrote:
> I wouldn't go that far. I've not yet figured out what Bebe has that
sets
> her apart, but that JMO. I'm glad kwan went.

No, no, no. I didn't mean that Bebe should have gone instead of Kwan. I
meant that I wished she had gone instead of Jenny. It was almost a
possibility. Of course, Bebe wouldn't have been match for the
competitors near the top, but I think she would have made the
competition more interesting down among the 4th, 5th, and 6th place
finishers; it would have been more interesting than what Jenny did. I
think.



23 Mar 2005 11:31:31
Trish
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


"Violina23" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> <<Kwan worked with Dean on a SP to music from "Rush" for the 2000-2001
> season.
> Her "A Day in the Life" SP was the previous year. She abandoned "Rush"
> after getting negative feedback from the judges and competed with "East
> of
> Eden" as her SP at Nationals and Worlds. >>
>
> And there has been no negative feedback about Bolero? ;)

I don't know if there was or there wasn't. I was just making a correction
about the SP that Dean choreographed.

> I admire her effort to use that music, but she forgot the whole "making
> it her own" part and just kinda skated around to it :) I guess a lot of
> this is because of the COP restructuring, but I was hoping she'd nix it
> and go with another program

As my Irish grandmother might have said, "better the Divil ye know." Bolero
is not my favorite program by any means, but it's the one she had, and that
had been reviewed to some extent for CoP. Switching to another program
mid-season that would also have to be re-worked for CoP might have produced
a result at Worlds that was worse. As it was, she still came within .37 of
making the podium.

Trish




23 Mar 2005 13:48:56
Darby Wiggins
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Oh, okay I see. I still diagaree..I like Jenny even thought it seems she's
having some problems at worlds


roj wrote:

> Darby Wiggins wrote:
> > I wouldn't go that far. I've not yet figured out what Bebe has that
> sets
> > her apart, but that JMO. I'm glad kwan went.
>
> No, no, no. I didn't mean that Bebe should have gone instead of Kwan. I
> meant that I wished she had gone instead of Jenny. It was almost a
> possibility. Of course, Bebe wouldn't have been match for the
> competitors near the top, but I think she would have made the
> competition more interesting down among the 4th, 5th, and 6th place
> finishers; it would have been more interesting than what Jenny did. I
> think.



24 Mar 2005 02:57:52
ant
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


Topcat wrote:
> > Ladies:
> > Kwan: really lost the podium in the Qualifying. Granted, she was
> > slightly under 5 points behind after the qualifying, but the Bolero
> > program never did get anywhere. When I heard she was skating to it,
I
> > thought she had a big hill to climb. The music doesn't lend itself
to
> > skating unless the skater can take control of the music - something
I
> > thought only Kwan could do. Unfortunately, I don't feel she did.
>
> I agree..and It can get even worse: she can still believe the program
> is strong enough to keep it for next season.
>
> > because C. Dean participated in the choreography. She was so
> tentative
> > and for the first time, I really began to see how slim her
> choreography
> > was. In fact, I was rather shocked. I think Kwan is one of those
> skaters
> > who can do more with less...ie she can get away with less
> choreography
> > as long as what she does is done well, but I really saw no real
> > innovation with this program. A lot of skating on two feet,
stroking
> > around but nothing in the way of innovative choreography or
> difficulty.
>
> Yeah...she is taking for granted the fact her previous performances
> have been qualified as truly unique. Maybe getting so many 6.0's has
> really affected her mindset. Let's admit it: Michelle has been great
> all these years but she has been overrated specially on the National
> level. IMO judges have made her believe her skating has been worth a
> 6.0 most of the time and she believed that without realizing her
spins
> hurt in speed, program concept and also, that some of her trademark
> moves have kep t the same aspect. She is not pushing the envelope
> anymore which is sad. Still, she is one of my favourite skaters and
> still get inspired by her carreer and attitude.

I totally take the point you make above and that you've noted some
areas where i think most people accept that Kwan could improve but
don't you also think its a little unfair that Kwan has to "re-invent"
herself year in, year out to please the critics only because she's been
around long enough that people say "same old same old, we want
something new". Who's been around as long as kwan in the eligible
female ranks?

Slutskaya...she's not re-invented herself...she came back in 1999
having worked on her choreography and improved it. Being left off the
world team despite being the reigning world silver medalist will do
that i guess. I would put Irina's "re-invention" in 1999 as the same
type of re-invention (though nowhere near as successful and dramatic)
as Kwan's return in the 1996 season. Since then nothing has changed
massively for Irina...technically she never changed her spins, was
still striving to get the triple loop on the back of the salchow and
lutz with varying degrees of success and choreographically i'd say
she's declined a little also but no-one is screaming for Irina to "do
something new".

Who else? Liashenko....to be fair i dislike her skating so can't say
i've followed it all (is it 12 years?) the years she's been competing
but i don't care for her choreography or her stiff telegraphed jumps,
so if they were worse at some stage that would be truly hideous. And
again no-one's asking her to re-invent herself.

I guess the long winded point i'm making is that no one else has been
around long enough to warrant a criticism that they should do something
new. Cohen i think is starting to get people saying this now after
three seasons of pretty samey generic overused music programs but with
her, people have bigger gripes with her inconsistency. Is it fair that
basically because Kwan has been so consistent and at the top that
people demand something new? Is she held to a higher standard i.e.
judged against her past performances rather than as compared to her
contemporaries?

Just waffling on, but you get the point!!

Ant



24 Mar 2005 05:01:10
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


Darby Wiggins wrote:
> Oh, okay I see. I still diagaree..I like Jenny even thought it seems
she's
> having some problems at worlds
>

I enjoy watching Jenny a lot more than Bebe, but let's face it, under
COP, Bebe is the pony to bet on. :)



> roj wrote:
>
> > Darby Wiggins wrote:
> > > I wouldn't go that far. I've not yet figured out what Bebe has
that
> > sets
> > > her apart, but that JMO. I'm glad kwan went.
> >
> > No, no, no. I didn't mean that Bebe should have gone instead of
Kwan. I
> > meant that I wished she had gone instead of Jenny. It was almost a
> > possibility. Of course, Bebe wouldn't have been match for the
> > competitors near the top, but I think she would have made the
> > competition more interesting down among the 4th, 5th, and 6th place
> > finishers; it would have been more interesting than what Jenny did.
I
> > think.



24 Mar 2005 06:12:13
roj
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


> I totally take the point you make above and that you've noted some
> areas where i think most people accept that Kwan could improve but
> don't you also think its a little unfair that Kwan has to "re-invent"
> herself year in, year out to please the critics only because she's
been
> around long enough that people say "same old same old, we want
> something new".

Kwan shouldn't "re-invent" herself for the critics. If she chooses to
improve, she should do it for herself, not for critics. I'm a critic,
but I wouldn't demand change or even expect it. Change, however, would
be welcome. (When I say "change" I mean improvement.)

There will always be complainers for both sides of an argument. It's
like with art. If someone keeps pumping out the same music year after
year people complain that they are repetitive and redundant. But if the
artist changes in any way, other people complain, "Their latest album
is not like their first album; I don't like it."

Kwan gets more criticism because unlike many, she is not a one hit
wonder. She's been around a long time.



24 Mar 2005 10:03:36
Michael Farris
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

"ant" <[email protected] > wrote in message
> don't you also think its a little unfair that Kwan has to "re-invent"
> herself year in, year out to please the critics only because she's been
> around long enough that people say "same old same old, we want
> something new". Who's been around as long as kwan in the eligible
> female ranks? (cut valid points about other skaters)

I think one of the reasons that people say this about Kwan is that she
herself says similar things. I think more than most skaters, she needs
the extra motivation of change to stay in the competitive grind and
has specifically mentioned wanting change and being dissatisfied with
the status quo in the past (especially when she and Carroll parted
ways and when she began working with her present coach). For all that
she seems like a wonderful person, Slutskaya has never (that I'm aware
of) expressed a similar personal need for change in her skating
(except in retrospect after her 2000 comeback).
Mostly, Kwan's evolution has been just that, gradual evolution but
there's been more cumulative effect that most people realize. Watch
her worlds LP's from 2001 and 2003 and you see how much faster she had
gotten (at the expense of inbetweens) and last year her jumps seemed
visibly higher than they often have in the past.
The main thing I've noticed this year is that she seemed a little
heavier, I don't know if it was being out of training or added muscle
(to get the 3-3's back which apparently are back in practice if not
yet in competition).

The anti-Kwan in terms of change (to me) isn't a female at all, it's
Plushenko, no program (short or long) of his seems any different than
any other, the only variable is will he hit all the jumps and if he
misses will he obsessively stalk a jump (as in last years bizarre
Euros LP).

-michael farris


24 Mar 2005 11:41:32
Gonna Skate
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect


Michael Farris wrote:

> Mostly, Kwan's evolution has been just that, gradual evolution but
> there's been more cumulative effect that most people realize. Watch
> her worlds LP's from 2001 and 2003 and you see how much faster she
had
> gotten (at the expense of inbetweens) and last year her jumps seemed
> visibly higher than they often have in the past.
> The main thing I've noticed this year is that she seemed a little
> heavier, I don't know if it was being out of training or added muscle
> (to get the 3-3's back which apparently are back in practice if not
> yet in competition).


I really agree with what you write. I've seen changes in Kwan's skating
over the past few years, too, and it amazes me when people claim she is
stuck in a rut. Of course the footwork is more complicated, most
everybody's is. And even if the jumps don't look "bigger" on TV, they
look much stronger in person. And the spins are more commanding (the
Camel is awesome in person!). Her facial expressions, too, have become
more adult and challenging. And I believe she has been choosing risky
music for herself (Carmen certainly wasn't new for skating fans, but it
was different for Michelle, and Bolero was a very daring choice)
reflecting a desire to grow artistically. One could even argue that
Kwan's costuming has matured this year. All of this takes work, and I
admire Michelle for working on it when she could have gone pro and
skated Fields of Gold for the rest of her life.

I think that now that Michelle has worked on this strengthening for the
past few years she could risk putting some more in-betweens back into
her Long Programs. It sure would be fun to watch if she did.

-Gonna Skate



26 Mar 2005 09:59:35
John Lincoln
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect



Fudge wrote:
> "roj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>>Darby Wiggins wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ladies:
>>>Kwan:
>>>I hope she takes some time to think about what she wants for the next
>>>season and begins to put together 2 great programs and takes part in
>>
>>the
>>
>>>GP...I think had she this year, it would have made a world of
>>>difference. I predict that she will retire after Turino. I'm not sure
>>>she has it in her to really learn and manipulate COP to her benefit
>>
>>past
>>
>>>Turino. I suspect she'll do what she has to to stay competitive then
>>>retire. I'm not sure the motivation to continue after Turino in the
>>
>>new
>>
>>>COP is there. I also think its a system that is not structured in
>>
>>such a
>>
>>>way that it highlights her strengths.
>>
>>The CoP is not the end of Kwan. She got third place in the free skate.
>>If she can do that with a program as bad as Bolero, I think the top is
>>within reach for her. I really hate the Bolero and I knew that it would
>>suck at Worlds. The music just does not lend itself to her style or her
>>strengths.
>
>
> Kwan has never done well working with Christopher Dean. I seem to recall
> her short program in the early 00's to a medley of Beatle's tunes. She gave
> up on that one part way through the season. I think if she had done the
> Grand Prix Circuit, she would also have abandoned Bolero before getting to
> World's.
>
> Flaming Beaver
>
>
>
Perhaps Michelle Kwan should return to what worked best for her:
1. A return to Frank Carroll and Lori Nichols.
2. Use music that few skaters if any use.
3. Restore her triple loop and her triple toe-triple toe, both of which
I have seen her do perfectly many times both live and on the ole
telly.

Some have complained the she is too old to compete; may I remind those
complainers that she is two years younger than Sloot and neither of them
are doddering old ladies.

-jl John


--Figure skaters do it in front of the judges



26 Mar 2005 09:47:32
Rick
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

John Lincoln wrote in message ...
>
>
>Fudge wrote:
>> "roj" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>>>Darby Wiggins wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ladies:
>>>>Kwan:
>>>>I hope she takes some time to think about what she wants for the next
>>>>season and begins to put together 2 great programs and takes part in
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>GP...I think had she this year, it would have made a world of
>>>>difference. I predict that she will retire after Turino. I'm not sure
>>>>she has it in her to really learn and manipulate COP to her benefit
>>>
>>>past
>>>
>>>>Turino. I suspect she'll do what she has to to stay competitive then
>>>>retire. I'm not sure the motivation to continue after Turino in the
>>>
>>>new
>>>
>>>>COP is there. I also think its a system that is not structured in
>>>
>>>such a
>>>
>>>>way that it highlights her strengths.
>>>
>>>The CoP is not the end of Kwan. She got third place in the free skate.
>>>If she can do that with a program as bad as Bolero, I think the top is
>>>within reach for her. I really hate the Bolero and I knew that it would
>>>suck at Worlds. The music just does not lend itself to her style or her
>>>strengths.
>>
>>
>> Kwan has never done well working with Christopher Dean. I seem to recall
>> her short program in the early 00's to a medley of Beatle's tunes. She
gave
>> up on that one part way through the season. I think if she had done the
>> Grand Prix Circuit, she would also have abandoned Bolero before getting
to
>> World's.
>>
>> Flaming Beaver
>>
>>
>>
>Perhaps Michelle Kwan should return to what worked best for her:
>1. A return to Frank Carroll and Lori Nichols.
>2. Use music that few skaters if any use.

<coughbartokcough >

>3. Restore her triple loop and her triple toe-triple toe, both of which
> I have seen her do perfectly many times both live and on the ole
> telly.
>
>Some have complained the she is too old to compete; may I remind those
>complainers that she is two years younger than Sloot

I did not know that (he says in his best Johnny Carson (sniff) imitation.)

>and neither of them are doddering old ladies.

- Rick




27 Mar 2005 12:23:30
Janet
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

I just watched a tape someone lent me of ladies Worlds. I have yet to
view the mens and the exhibitions.

Agree re Kwan. Agree re Cohen. Agree re Slutskaya, adding that I
think the Biellmann spins are overused. My favorite skater would be
one who skates with the emotion and personality of Slutskaya, the
elegance of Arakawa, the speed and airiness of Kostner, and the
exquisite body line of Cohen. Right now I don't have a favorite
skater!



27 Mar 2005 20:54:58
Barbara
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Janet wrote:
> I just watched a tape someone lent me of ladies Worlds. I have yet to
> view the mens and the exhibitions.
>
> Agree re Kwan. Agree re Cohen. Agree re Slutskaya, adding that I
> think the Biellmann spins are overused. My favorite skater would be
> one who skates with the emotion and personality of Slutskaya, the
> elegance of Arakawa, the speed and airiness of Kostner, and the
> exquisite body line of Cohen. Right now I don't have a favorite
> skater!
>
I've watched it twice, and I agree with your assessment.


28 Mar 2005 16:21:15
Bruce Scott TOK
Re: Worlds, Kwan ect

Janet wrote:

| > Agree re Kwan. Agree re Cohen. Agree re Slutskaya, adding that I
| > think the Biellmann spins are overused. My favorite skater would be
| > one who skates with the emotion and personality of Slutskaya, the
| > elegance of Arakawa, the speed and airiness of Kostner, and the
| > exquisite body line of Cohen. Right now I don't have a favorite
| > skater!

Denise Bielmann herself is the most graceful and precise skater I ever
watched, and was on great form even at age 40.

--
cu,
Bruce

drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/