31 Jul 2003 20:55:23
Bobs
The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
force for goodness.

"The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.

Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
hosting rights to Aussie?



--
"Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs

(see Bobs' Book of Quotes)



31 Jul 2003 20:59:54
Stephen Doyle
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it; OT


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?

To wind Bobs up even further!!
http://results.hpolsurveys.com/instantResults.aspx?j=w19255&page=2
--
Cheers
Stephen Doyle
[email protected]
www.dmsystems.co.nz/mbslc
Ph: 09 479 5934 Mob: 021 258 7618



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.504 / Virus Database: 302 - Release Date: 24/07/2003




31 Jul 2003 18:58:05
Matua
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?
>
>
>
> --
> "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
>
> (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)
>

Hear, hear Bobs.




31 Jul 2003 21:06:23
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worthless


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money"

Damn right, Bobs.

E. Scrooge




31 Jul 2003 19:00:58
Sutton
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

In this day of big bucks in sport what the AB's received amounts to nothing
more then peanuts. The should get twice that if they win the cup


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?
>
>
>
> --
> "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
>
> (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)
>




31 Jul 2003 21:20:05
Mr Scebe
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

No one doubts that the AB's are worth that amount of money, given how much
everyone is beating themselves off because we haven't won the RWC for 16
years. The whole thing reminds me of the cricket strike though, with the
older players trying to squeeze more to the detriment of those coming
through. I thought the idea of $50k up front and $10 a year until the next
Cup was a sound deal.

It's the tardy and shameless way that the players reneged on a previous deal
that gets me. That said, i doubt that the NZRPA will ever be able to do a
deal on the strength of their word again. Rob Nicol has lost even more cred
than ever and is now probably the world's 2nd biggest joke, behind the
Wannabies.

--
Mr Scebe
Losers always whine about their 'best'.
Winners go home and fuck the prom queen".
~Sean Connery in "The Rock"




31 Jul 2003 19:42:49
Uncle Bully
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Sutton" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In this day of big bucks in sport what the AB's received amounts to
nothing
> more then peanuts. The should get twice that if they win the cup

Depends on the market doesn't it? We're not talking Soccer or Basketball
that have a support base numbering in the Billions. The number of Union fans
in the SANZAR nations wouldn't even fill California. $80k seems like a
reasonable reward for 6 weeks work.





31 Jul 2003 22:26:58
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 20:55:23 +1200, Bobs <[email protected] > wrote:

>If they generate the money and get the results, they
>deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
>punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
>hosting rights to Aussie?
>

If we'd have hosted here we'd have lost 10 Mil. If we win the World
cup the tournament is a 3.4 Mil loss.

Bobby, it's all very nice and magnanimous of you to say there worth
the 80k, fuck I agree. Why not? Hell I'd give you an 80 k bonus of
someone else's money for the consistency of bullshit you can generate.

Engage your brain for a second and tell me where you'll think we end
up if the salaries of these players is continually inflated while
revenue generated from sponsorship etc is reducing?


31 Jul 2003 23:05:25
Justin Thyme
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits.
>
>
> --
> "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
>
> (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)
>

What makes me laugh about all this criticism is that one of the most
strident opponents of the All Blacks' stance over the World Cup money is a
former player himself who when he was in the NZ side -- and an "amateur" at
that -- would do just about anything to wring an extra buck out of his AB
status.

In fact, what he and his team-mates did on one overseas tour to put extra
money in their pockets is almost beyond belief -- but it did happen. If this
present AB side ever got up to what their predecessors did on that tour
they'd be kicked out of the game forever. They wouldn't get a game for a
girl's team. Some critics, like this former AB, have very short memories. He
makes me sick.

Are the current ABs worth the money? Of course they are. They're selling a
product - their skills - and there's a buyer willing, however reluctantly,
to pay for those services.

Besides, who among us wouldn't push for a bonus or wage rise if he could?
These guys are working men, rugby is their job. Go for every cent they can
get, I say.




31 Jul 2003 11:33:20
Mariner
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

> Besides, who among us wouldn't push for a bonus or wage rise if he could?
> These guys are working men, rugby is their job. Go for every cent they can
> get, I say.
>
You have a good point here Justin as another article claimed that these guys
earn more than surgeons
which in a year is true.

However in terms of a lifetime one does not take into account that a Rugby
player can only earn this type of money for six to ten seasons
and then he will have to find another source of income. A lawyer or surgeon
on the other hand can earn this type of money for 30 years or more
and if lecturing, partnerships and other endorsements are part of the deal
it pays even more! So over a 30 year period and after high taxes
for the six to ten year stint unless a Rugby player gets a supplemental,
self employed or spin-off job that pays okay afterwards the overall pay is
not that good
over their lifetime. Maybe the fact that some players may only play in one
world cup then maybe winning it deserves such a bonus

Winning RWC can also bring lucrative contracts to the national Union (eg
Nike sponsoring SA after the 1995 RWC) so the bonus pallava
has a double edged sword to it although it is not cool that maybe these guys
are using their current red hot form to leverage higher pay when other pay
structures were agreed to beforehand.

That is what a lot of people are possibly angry about.




31 Jul 2003 13:19:06
Ali
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

> In fact, what he and his team-mates did on one overseas tour to put extra
> money in their pockets is almost beyond belief -- but it did happen. If
this
> present AB side ever got up to what their predecessors did on that tour
> they'd be kicked out of the game forever. They wouldn't get a game for a
> girl's team. Some critics, like this former AB, have very short memories.
He
> makes me sick.

Can you make it a bit more vague please for some of us NHers that don't know
who your talking about and what they did please.

Cheers

A

Cross post removed.




01 Aug 2003 00:54:01
reprobate
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

netball isnt even a sport




01 Aug 2003 01:58:55
Joe
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 00:54:01 +1200, "reprobate"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>netball isnt even a sport
>
To play rugby you need an oddshaped ball.
Cheers *


31 Jul 2003 07:04:15
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Bobs <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?

My only problem with this whole affair is that the players apparently
agreed to $50k each earlier this year. If that is so, then I am
unimpressed with their subsequent bargaining.

(regardless of which, Andy 'Cavaliers Tour' Haden has no right at all
to be banging on about player morality)

Leaving that issue aside, the NZRFU are plainly talking out of their
arses.

In particular, their contention that they will lose money if NZ wins
the World Cup, and even more money than if NZ only makes the final, is
hilarious. This is the same sort of idiot short-term thinking that
led to the loss of the sub-hosting rights in the first place.
Newsflash: benefits from winning the World Cup are likely to accrue
for several years. You may wish to take a long view, rather than
focus narrowly on any profit or loss made in November.

Furthermore, if those players win the World Cup, then they will be
directly responsible for the additional benefits flowing to NZ in
years after. Make no mistake; in terms of TV rights, marketing
opportunities etc those benefits will be significant. It is therefore
entirely fair that the players share in the profits that their efforts
have helped to realise.

While I am no fan of diverting money from the grassroots, the fact is
that if the World Cup is won, then the money the players will receive
will be paid from profits the NZRFU would otherwise not receive. The
money distributed to the provinces will not decrease.

The rest of this 'they're paid enough already' garbage is the usual
jealous bullshit that you see in every professional sport around the
world. As always, the players are the primary employees in the a
multi-million dollar entertainment business. Their remuneration
reflects their value to the business, and the market. As do the
salaries of most people in employment today.

Cheers

Brent


31 Jul 2003 07:19:06
Noel K
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Bobs <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
>

"The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on
it"

Will speak to you after...I mean during....the World Cup bro...

I can see it now "these fucking softcock AB's shouln't be paid for
their shit performance!" ;)

Cheers


01 Aug 2003 08:54:48
Lindsay
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 00:54:01 +1200, "reprobate"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>netball isnt even a sport
>>
>
> To play rugby you need an oddshaped ball.
> Cheers *

That T Shirt says, to play rugby you need leather balls.



01 Aug 2003 09:15:39
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Brent" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Bobs <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> > It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> > events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> > delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> > force for goodness.
> >
> > "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> > peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> > and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> > bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
> >
> > Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> > ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> > and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> > all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> > shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> > a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> > an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> > fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> > deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> > punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> > hosting rights to Aussie?
>
> My only problem with this whole affair is that the players apparently
> agreed to $50k each earlier this year. If that is so, then I am
> unimpressed with their subsequent bargaining.
>
> (regardless of which, Andy 'Cavaliers Tour' Haden has no right at all
> to be banging on about player morality)
>
> Leaving that issue aside, the NZRFU are plainly talking out of their
> arses.
>
> In particular, their contention that they will lose money if NZ wins
> the World Cup, and even more money than if NZ only makes the final, is
> hilarious. This is the same sort of idiot short-term thinking that
> led to the loss of the sub-hosting rights in the first place.
> Newsflash: benefits from winning the World Cup are likely to accrue
> for several years. You may wish to take a long view, rather than
> focus narrowly on any profit or loss made in November.
>
> Furthermore, if those players win the World Cup, then they will be
> directly responsible for the additional benefits flowing to NZ in
> years after. Make no mistake; in terms of TV rights, marketing
> opportunities etc those benefits will be significant. It is therefore
> entirely fair that the players share in the profits that their efforts
> have helped to realise.
>
> While I am no fan of diverting money from the grassroots, the fact is
> that if the World Cup is won, then the money the players will receive
> will be paid from profits the NZRFU would otherwise not receive. The
> money distributed to the provinces will not decrease.
>
> The rest of this 'they're paid enough already' garbage is the usual
> jealous bullshit that you see in every professional sport around the
> world. As always, the players are the primary employees in the a
> multi-million dollar entertainment business. Their remuneration
> reflects their value to the business, and the market. As do the
> salaries of most people in employment today.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brent

Thanks, that proves my point that you and other supporters won't mind one
bit when major rugby games will only be shown live on Pay Per View.
It will be heading that way a lot faster than you think. Can't blame a
business for wanting to make all the profits that they can, as you well
know.
$20 a game to watch it live on TV sounds cheap enough. I wouldn't have a
problem if it were to even only cost $30 a game to watch it live on the
telly.

E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.




01 Aug 2003 09:16:15
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 09:15:39 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>Thanks, that proves my point that you and other supporters won't mind one
>bit when major rugby games will only be shown live on Pay Per View.
>It will be heading that way a lot faster than you think. Can't blame a
>business for wanting to make all the profits that they can, as you well
>know.
>$20 a game to watch it live on TV sounds cheap enough. I wouldn't have a
>problem if it were to even only cost $30 a game to watch it live on the
>telly.
>
>E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
>

I agree with you Scroogie ( don't let the world know i agree with you will you?.
My reputation will be severely dented :) )
But don't forget Jimbo Anderton stated that all New Zealanders will be able to
watch Rugby free to view. . And we haven't ever had a politician go back on
his/her word have we ?
--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


01 Aug 2003 09:33:48
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Bobs wrote:

> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?

It is not at all "communist" to expect people to abide by their
contractual obligations.

Obeying the law doesn't make one a "communist".

If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
the what they were legally obliged to do.

Peter.



01 Aug 2003 09:56:34
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:33:48 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected] >
wrote:

>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
>the what they were legally obliged to do.
>

I think bobs has got his commie tag around the wrong way. It's the
players that have carried on like a bunch of Ferry workers the day
before christmas holidays. Fucking Employment relations act, bring
back national to crush these ridiculous socialists.


01 Aug 2003 10:17:37
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Kip wrote:

> On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 09:33:48 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
>>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
>>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
>>the what they were legally obliged to do.
>>
>
>
> I think bobs has got his commie tag around the wrong way.

Agreed - he seems a little confused.


It's the
> players that have carried on like a bunch of Ferry workers the day
> before christmas holidays.

Yup

Fucking Employment relations act, bring
> back national to crush these ridiculous socialists.

Oh bollocks, the ERA has nothing to do with it. The NZRFU should have
stuck to their guns - the ABs didn't have a leg to stand on, legally.

Peter.



01 Aug 2003 10:55:48
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 10:17:37 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected] >
wrote:

>Oh bollocks, the ERA has nothing to do with it. The NZRFU should have
>stuck to their guns - the ABs didn't have a leg to stand on, legally.
>

ERA does have a bit to do with collective bargaining for employees.
You'd have to ask one of those fuck-all-lawyer types exactly what.


01 Aug 2003 10:10:56
Sutton
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Uncle Bully" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:[email protected]
>
> "Sutton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > In this day of big bucks in sport what the AB's received amounts to
> nothing
> > more then peanuts. The should get twice that if they win the cup
>
> Depends on the market doesn't it? We're not talking Soccer or Basketball
> that have a support base numbering in the Billions. The number of Union fans
> in the SANZAR nations wouldn't even fill California. $80k seems like a
> reasonable reward for 6 weeks work.


Its not just 6 weeks work and if you think that then you shouldn't even be
posting in this group




01 Aug 2003 12:18:59
Jake
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

You all seemed to have missed the point.
That being NZ rugby has managed to successfully embarrass itself yet again
on the world stage.
They cannot seem to be able to conduct themselves with any sense of dignity
or professionalism.
I find it hard to find fault in something so pathetic.

Jake





"Kip" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 10:17:37 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Oh bollocks, the ERA has nothing to do with it. The NZRFU should have
> >stuck to their guns - the ABs didn't have a leg to stand on, legally.
> >
>
> ERA does have a bit to do with collective bargaining for employees.
> You'd have to ask one of those fuck-all-lawyer types exactly what.




01 Aug 2003 12:24:22
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 12:18:59 +1200, "Jake" <[email protected] >
wrote:

>You all seemed to have missed the point.
>That being NZ rugby has managed to successfully embarrass itself yet again
>on the world stage.
>They cannot seem to be able to conduct themselves with any sense of dignity
>or professionalism.
>I find it hard to find fault in something so pathetic.
>

It was a question of the least evil. A bigger embarrassment would have
been missing a deadline. Again.

OT, how do you think negotiations for the ABs will go next time
around?


31 Jul 2003 17:50:47
JD
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

"Uncle Bully" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Sutton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > In this day of big bucks in sport what the AB's received amounts to
> nothing
> > more then peanuts. The should get twice that if they win the cup
>
> Depends on the market doesn't it? We're not talking Soccer or Basketball
> that have a support base numbering in the Billions. The number of Union fans
> in the SANZAR nations wouldn't even fill California.

Of course it wouldn't. Far too many wetbacks.


31 Jul 2003 17:58:11
JD
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Peter Ashford <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
> contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
> action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
> the what they were legally obliged to do.

You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.


01 Aug 2003 14:17:55
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

JD wrote:

> Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
>>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
>>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
>>the what they were legally obliged to do.
>
>
> You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.

They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
the RWC



01 Aug 2003 14:58:30
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon

Peter Ashford wrote:
>
> JD wrote:
>
> > Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
> >>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
> >>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
> >>the what they were legally obliged to do.
> >
> >
> > You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.
>
> They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
> the RWC

Says who?


01 Aug 2003 14:33:02
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon

[email protected] wrote:

> Peter Ashford wrote:
>
>>JD wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
>>>>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
>>>>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
>>>>the what they were legally obliged to do.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.
>>
>>They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
>>the RWC
>
>
> Says who?

WTF????

Are you seriously saying that when an AB signs their contract with the
NZRFU that they *aren't* aware that they'll have to play in AB test
matches?



01 Aug 2003 14:34:31
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Jake wrote:

> You all seemed to have missed the point.
> That being NZ rugby has managed to successfully embarrass itself yet again
> on the world stage.
> They cannot seem to be able to conduct themselves with any sense of dignity
> or professionalism.
> I find it hard to find fault in something so pathetic.
>
> Jake
>
>

I don;t think that the NZRFU did anything especially embarrasing. What
should they have done that they didn't?



01 Aug 2003 15:36:31
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankonit

Peter Ashford wrote:
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Peter Ashford wrote:
> >
> >>JD wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
> >>>>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
> >>>>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
> >>>>the what they were legally obliged to do.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.
> >>
> >>They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
> >>the RWC
> >
> >
> > Says who?
>
> WTF????
>
> Are you seriously saying that when an AB signs their contract with the
> NZRFU that they *aren't* aware that they'll have to play in AB test
> matches?

So what you're saying is, that when you sign up as an All Black, you are
guaranteed a place in the World Cup Team? Rubbish!

The World Cup is a separate entity and as such has a separate contract
as players have to forgo existing sponsorship deals to compete, the
same as was thrust upon the cricketers. CRS set in has it?

You seem to forget what caused New Zealand to lose hosting rights?

John


31 Jul 2003 22:04:51
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Peter Ashford <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> JD wrote:
>
> > Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> >>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
> >>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
> >>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
> >>the what they were legally obliged to do.
> >
> >
> > You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.
>
> They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
> the RWC

No. It has been said publicly that the AB contract provided for a
bonus in general terms, with the amount to be negotiated later. You
are wrong.

Cheers

Brent


01 Aug 2003 19:17:46
Justin Thyme
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Ali" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> > In fact, what he and his team-mates did on one overseas tour to put
extra
> > money in their pockets is almost beyond belief -- but it did happen. If
> this
> > present AB side ever got up to what their predecessors did on that tour
> > they'd be kicked out of the game forever. They wouldn't get a game for a
> > girl's team. Some critics, like this former AB, have very short
memories.
> He
> > makes me sick.
>
> Can you make it a bit more vague please for some of us NHers that don't
know
> who your talking about and what they did please.
>
> Cheers
>
Let's just say it involved raffling certain services at an after-match
function during the tour. The same sort of services have just been
legalised in NZ. And it wasn't their own services they were raffling, by the
way.




01 Aug 2003 08:21:27
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 14:33:02 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected] >
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Peter Ashford wrote:
>>
>>>JD wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>If you sign a contract, you are legally abliged to do what you
>>>>>contracted to do. Effectively, what the AB's did was to threaten strike
>>>>>action which if anything is much more "communist" than actually doing
>>>>>the what they were legally obliged to do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You are missing the point here Peter. They hadn't signed the contract for the WC.
>>>
>>>They had signed their contract with the NZRFU, knowing that it covered
>>>the RWC
>>
>>
>> Says who?
>
>WTF????
>
>Are you seriously saying that when an AB signs their contract with the
>NZRFU that they *aren't* aware that they'll have to play in AB test
>matches?


Actually Peter, there was some debate a few years ago on the status of
RWC games - whether they were classed as tests or not - so it may not
be as cut and dried as you think. But you'd have to be one pretty
naive All Black (or one very crafty lawyer) to argue that your NZRU
contract didn't cover RWC, and in fact there doesn't seem anything
from either camp since the dispute was resolved to indicate that new
contracts were signed, it all seems to be about bonus payments only,
which would imply the original contract was still in force with an
addenda.



01 Aug 2003 22:35:02
Chris Wilkinson
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Hi there,

Brent wrote:
> My only problem with this whole affair is that the players apparently
> agreed to $50k each earlier this year. If that is so, then I am
> unimpressed with their subsequent bargaining.

The Wallabies were offered significantly more IIRC from scratch?

If so, its just jealousy on the part of the AB's...

The NZ media keep telling us the AB's are the best team in the world.
If they don't win the world cup then obviously they aren't. The AB's
maybe use the argument that if they are the best they should get paid
the most? Like any employee they should have to prove themselves
before even being able to sit down at the negotiating table...

Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.



01 Aug 2003 23:08:32
Rodger Donaldson
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 23:05:25 +1200, Justin Thyme <[email protected] > wrote:
>
>What makes me laugh about all this criticism is that one of the most
>strident opponents of the All Blacks' stance over the World Cup money is a
>former player himself who when he was in the NZ side -- and an "amateur" at
>that -- would do just about anything to wring an extra buck out of his AB
>status.
>
>In fact, what he and his team-mates did on one overseas tour to put extra
>money in their pockets is almost beyond belief -- but it did happen.

Andy Haden, I'm guessing. And yes, he's not so much a pot as the
whole bloody ironworks.

--
Rodger Donaldson [email protected]










01 Aug 2003 11:50:17
mg
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

"David Covey" <[email protected] > wrote in message

> Strewth! That's pretty poor. I assumed when I first saw this thread
> that the NZ dollar must be worth ten of everybody else's. No wonder
> ABs have always looked so pissed off all the time - all that effort
> for nothing...

That's a bit harsh. You could say the same for the Australian dollar which has
only recently jumper 60 US Cents. I think New Zealand is at about 54 US Cents.
But you in England pay more to live, the basics. We can actually afford red meat
and a slab of beer =)




02 Aug 2003 00:01:25
Tilly
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

mg wrote:
> That's a bit harsh. You could say the same for the Australian dollar
> which has only recently jumper 60 US Cents. I think New Zealand is at
> about 54 US Cents. But you in England pay more to live, the basics.
> We can actually afford red meat and a slab of beer =)


The NZD is at 59.4 US cents, the Australian at 65 US cents.

You are very out of date.


Tilly



--
[email protected]




02 Aug 2003 00:29:16
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Mariner wrote:
>>Besides, who among us wouldn't push for a bonus or wage rise if he could?
>>These guys are working men, rugby is their job. Go for every cent they can
>>get, I say.
>>
>
> You have a good point here Justin as another article claimed that these guys
> earn more than surgeons
> which in a year is true.
>
> However in terms of a lifetime one does not take into account that a Rugby
> player can only earn this type of money for six to ten seasons

6 * $300,000 = $1.8 million
10 * $300,000 = $3 million

In other words - boo fucking hoo. If I could work 6 to 10 years and get
between two and three million dollars, I'd be quite happy about it.

Also, these figures leave out endorsements and the value of the
marketability of being an ex-all black after your playing days are over.

Working at the average NZ wage (about 33k) for 40 years nets 1.2million
gross over a working lifetime). Now, comparing these two options - it
doesn't look all too bleak to be an AB, does it?

Peter.



02 Aug 2003 00:48:23
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 00:29:16 +1200, Peter Ashford <[email protected] >
wrote:

>In other words - boo fucking hoo. If I could work 6 to 10 years and get
>between two and three million dollars, I'd be quite happy about it.
>
>Also, these figures leave out endorsements and the value of the
>marketability of being an ex-all black after your playing days are over.
>
>Working at the average NZ wage (about 33k) for 40 years nets 1.2million
>gross over a working lifetime). Now, comparing these two options - it
>doesn't look all too bleak to be an AB, does it?
>

None of that's the fucking point though. Market value is market value.
The shit about this was the underhand extortionist wa they went about
it. Absolutely no difference between what these players did and air
traffic controllers striking on christmas eve just because they know
how much it will fuck everyone off. It's unionism at its worst.

Imagine the negotiations for the next round of ABs;

"I'm sorry player X, we can't pay the old contract rates because we
have all these losses to recuperate."

Real smart stuff NZRPA.


01 Aug 2003 06:42:59
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Chris Wilkinson <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi there,
>
> Brent wrote:
> > My only problem with this whole affair is that the players apparently
> > agreed to $50k each earlier this year. If that is so, then I am
> > unimpressed with their subsequent bargaining.
>
> The Wallabies were offered significantly more IIRC from scratch?

The Wallabies, South Africans, English and French...

> If so, its just jealousy on the part of the AB's...

Are you familiar with the concept of the market? Jealousy is rather a
strange term to apply. Most professionals have an idea of the market
for their services, and compare what they get to what their peers get
paid.

> The NZ media keep telling us the AB's are the best team in the world.
> If they don't win the world cup then obviously they aren't. The AB's
> maybe use the argument that if they are the best they should get paid
> the most? Like any employee they should have to prove themselves
> before even being able to sit down at the negotiating table...
>
Er...

You are aware of the nature of a performance bonus, aren't you? The
concept is that they get paid if they win, not if they lose. If they
win, they will prove themselves, and get paid. If they don't, then
they won't.

Cheers

Brent


01 Aug 2003 06:56:09
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

"E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove eye) > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> Thanks, that proves my point that you and other supporters won't mind one
> bit when major rugby games will only be shown live on Pay Per View.
> It will be heading that way a lot faster than you think. Can't blame a
> business for wanting to make all the profits that they can, as you well
> know.
> $20 a game to watch it live on TV sounds cheap enough. I wouldn't have a
> problem if it were to even only cost $30 a game to watch it live on the
> telly.
>
> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.

Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
usually on free to air TV.

Sporting bodies want to find an appropriate balance between financial
reward and maximising exposure for their sport. Pay-per-view is
generally restricted to niche sports. Look at the RWC this year -
TVNZ have spent more than Sky to get the coverage. Same in the UK -
it is being shown by ITV, rather than Sky.

More practically, there would be a national outcry. If nothing else,
politicians from both sides of the House would unite as one and stop
it.

But hey! Don't let logic, facts, or commercial and common sense get
in the way of knee-jerk stupidity. Carry on.

Cheers

Brent


02 Aug 2003 02:00:58
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On 1 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:

>> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
>
>Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
>free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
>longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
>not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
>usually on free to air TV.
>

Isn't that the result of anti-siphoning laws?


02 Aug 2003 06:26:37
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Matua" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Your right there Sutts Good Shit.

Dig into your pockets to hand over all of your money to the NZRU then. It's
tight bastards like you and Bobs that aren't doing enough to help the All
Blacks all become millionaires a lot sooner than later.

Put your money where your mouth is by giving all of your money over to the
NZRU. It's tight arse little supporters like you and Bobs, which are
holding the players back from earning enough money to make them all
millionaires, ya tight little bastard.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 07:05:55
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Brent" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove eye)> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
>
> > Thanks, that proves my point that you and other supporters won't mind
one
> > bit when major rugby games will only be shown live on Pay Per View.
> > It will be heading that way a lot faster than you think. Can't blame a
> > business for wanting to make all the profits that they can, as you well
> > know.
> > $20 a game to watch it live on TV sounds cheap enough. I wouldn't have
a
> > problem if it were to even only cost $30 a game to watch it live on the
> > telly.
> >
> > E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
>
> Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
> free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
> longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
> not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
> usually on free to air TV.
>
> Sporting bodies want to find an appropriate balance between financial
> reward and maximising exposure for their sport. Pay-per-view is
> generally restricted to niche sports. Look at the RWC this year -
> TVNZ have spent more than Sky to get the coverage. Same in the UK -
> it is being shown by ITV, rather than Sky.
>
> More practically, there would be a national outcry. If nothing else,
> politicians from both sides of the House would unite as one and stop
> it.
>
> But hey! Don't let logic, facts, or commercial and common sense get
> in the way of knee-jerk stupidity. Carry on.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brent

No different from professional boxing. No reason why true supporters of the
players rights to earn a lot more money shouldn't be paying up a huge amount
more to help them get the million dollar a year contracts that they fully
deserve, ya tight arse little prick. This isn't the UK and Australia,
there's only 4 million tight arsed people in NZ. Big steps need to be taken
to help to generate a lot more money for the players, and that's a fact. If
people can pay $200 to see a Robbie Williams concert, then they won't mind
paying $200 to see the great All Blacks playing professional rugby, or
paying the very cheap $20 booking fee to watch the game LIVE on SKY Digital.
The tight bastards like yourself won't miss out from seeing the games on TV
for NOTHING (FREE), you'll just have to wait until the next day to do it on
Sky Sports 1. Which also ruins your argument that you won't still be able
to watch it for free, you just won't be able to watch it live and on the
same day anymore. Besides Sky have never broadcasted a game yet for FREE,
you can't see it without paying the subscription to do so. It's just a very
cheap form of pay per view already, you silly bugger.
You can't expect a big bucks game to be next to free forever. It will now
be going to Pay Per View only for the LIVE screenings of it, which true
supporters won't mind paying one bit.
Of course you could always watch it live at the pub, you'll just have to pay
a cover charge before you can get in, to go towards the $1,000 it'll cost
the pub be able to show the great Pay Per View game LIVE for you.

Get used to it, when it comes to the professional sport of NZ Rugby the
little America's Cup will only be a drop in the ocean by comparison.

Freeloaders like yourself have had far too easy for far too long, while the
All Blacks are doing their very best to make ends meet with the piss poor
pay they're earning, all because you, Bobs, and others simply aren't
coughing up enough REAL money to support the poor buggers.

Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a rugby
game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you. Along
with the very cheap delayed coverage, LIVE Pay Per View is very fast coming.
It only makes good business sense for it to happen.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 07:08:48
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Kip" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 1 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:
>
> >> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
> >
> >Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
> >free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
> >longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
> >not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
> >usually on free to air TV.
> >
>
> Isn't that the result of anti-siphoning laws?

You better start making a complaint about Sky charging people that have
watched it over the last few years or so. Sky TV has never been free,
simpleton.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 08:20:37
Tama
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Its the players who are the comunists here - what with a "union" all that
other socialist stuff.
Are you saying Colin Meads is a communist because he wasnt paid to play ?
If any of these current AB's dont like their current "job" - then there is
nothing stopping them from fucking off to do something else.
Do they play rugby for the enjoyoment or the cash ?


"Bobs" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?
>
>
>
> --
> "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
>
> (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)
>




02 Aug 2003 08:25:47
Tama
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Justin Thyme" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Bobs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> > events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> > delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> > force for goodness.
> >
> > "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> > peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> > and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> > bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
> >
> > Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits.
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
> >
> > (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)
> >
>
> What makes me laugh about all this criticism is that one of the most
> strident opponents of the All Blacks' stance over the World Cup money is a
> former player himself who when he was in the NZ side -- and an "amateur"
at
> that -- would do just about anything to wring an extra buck out of his AB
> status.
>
> In fact, what he and his team-mates did on one overseas tour to put extra
> money in their pockets is almost beyond belief -- but it did happen. If
this
> present AB side ever got up to what their predecessors did on that tour
> they'd be kicked out of the game forever. They wouldn't get a game for a
> girl's team. Some critics, like this former AB, have very short memories.
He
> makes me sick.
>
> Are the current ABs worth the money? Of course they are. They're selling a
> product - their skills - and there's a buyer willing, however reluctantly,
> to pay for those services.
>
> Besides, who among us wouldn't push for a bonus or wage rise if he could?
> These guys are working men, rugby is their job. Go for every cent they can
> get, I say.
>

Yes - but at what expense to the game as a whole ? there is a finite amount
of money. Give it all to the AB's - and what happens to the rest of rugby in
NZ ? or dont you care ?

Like you say - its their job, and like any job, you negotiate yourself a
contract *BEFORE* you start, if you dont like it, you quit.




>




02 Aug 2003 09:05:32
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:08:48 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected] (remove eye) > wrote:

>
>"Kip" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On 1 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:
>>
>> >> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
>> >
>> >Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
>> >free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
>> >longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
>> >not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
>> >usually on free to air TV.
>> >
>>
>> Isn't that the result of anti-siphoning laws?
>
>You better start making a complaint about Sky charging people that have
>watched it over the last few years or so. Sky TV has never been free,
>simpleton.
>

Not here you fucking moron.


01 Aug 2003 22:23:31
David Covey
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

mg <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "David Covey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Strewth! That's pretty poor. I assumed when I first saw this thread
> > that the NZ dollar must be worth ten of everybody else's. No wonder
> > ABs have always looked so pissed off all the time - all that effort
> > for nothing...
>
> That's a bit harsh. You could say the same for the Australian dollar which
has
> only recently jumper 60 US Cents. I think New Zealand is at about 54 US
Cents.
> But you in England pay more to live, the basics. We can actually afford
red meat
> and a slab of beer =)

You can keep quiet or I'll kick up a fuss about why you buggers send all
your decent lamb to Germany and only the crap ends up in England. Used to
get luvverly NZ lamb in Germany al you get here is bloody fat and blood
vessels. If only the England team knew about this well, they'd be livid I'm
sure...

BTW, you're supposed to drink red win with red meat. not bloody beer.

UD




02 Aug 2003 09:28:01
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:05:55 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a rugby
>game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you.

Of course last Saturday (July 26th ) on TV3 there was a Free live rugby game
starting at 9:30 the same time that a game was starting on Sky Sport. THey both
happened to be the same game too. NZ vs Aussie



> Along with the very cheap delayed coverage, LIVE Pay Per View is very fast coming.
>It only makes good business sense for it to happen.


--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


02 Aug 2003 09:29:59
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:08:48 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>
>"Kip" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On 1 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:
>>
>> >> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
>> >
>> >Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
>> >free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
>> >longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
>> >not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
>> >usually on free to air TV.
>> >
>>
>> Isn't that the result of anti-siphoning laws?
>
>You better start making a complaint about Sky charging people that have
>watched it over the last few years or so. Sky TV has never been free,
>simpleton.
>
>E. Scrooge
>
Oh yes it has Scroogie . Never heard of HVC plus?. LOL

--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


02 Aug 2003 09:50:25
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Kip" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:08:48 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
> <[email protected] (remove eye)> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Kip" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On 1 Aug 2003 06:56:09 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:
> >>
> >> >> E. Scrooge - bring on Pay Per View rugby, the sooner the better.
> >> >
> >> >Highly unlikely. Internationally, major sports events are shown on
> >> >free to air TV, despite many sports having been professional for far
> >> >longer than rugby. Look at the States for example. The Superbowl is
> >> >not shown on pay per view. In England, soccer internationals are
> >> >usually on free to air TV.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Isn't that the result of anti-siphoning laws?
> >
> >You better start making a complaint about Sky charging people that have
> >watched it over the last few years or so. Sky TV has never been free,
> >simpleton.
> >
>
> Not here you fucking moron.

Couldn't stand hearing the truth, sonny?

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 09:54:47
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:05:55 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a
rugby
> >game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you.
>
> Of course last Saturday (July 26th ) on TV3 there was a Free live rugby
game
> starting at 9:30 the same time that a game was starting on Sky Sport. THey
both
> happened to be the same game too. NZ vs Aussie
> --
>
> Col

It wasn't been shown live on TV3 though. Others knew the results before the
game had finished on TV3.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 09:50:38
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:50:25 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected] (remove eye) > wrote:

>> Not here you fucking moron.
>
>Couldn't stand hearing the truth, sonny?
>

Forgotten what you were talking about, grandad?


02 Aug 2003 10:05:39
Justin Thyme
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Tama" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> Like you say - its their job, and like any job, you negotiate yourself a
> contract *BEFORE* you start, if you dont like it, you quit.

The World Cup's a bit different, though, not their regular work routine.
It's a bit like being asked to work on Christmas day. Before I went out on
my own, if my boss asked me to do something like that, we negotiated. If he
didn't make it worth my while, I stayed home Christmas day with a drumstick
in one hand and a beer in the other while some (less capable) sucker toiled
away for peanuts. The ABs were entitled to make their stand. Serfdom went
out quite a few years ago, despite the best efforts of the contracts act.
I'm not shedding any tears for the NZRFU. Don't you think that if they could
have found another 25 players to do an equal job for less money they
wouldn't have gone for it faster than Winston Peters fleeing an immigrant
cabbie?





02 Aug 2003 10:09:22
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Kip" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:50:25 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
> <[email protected] (remove eye)> wrote:
>
> >> Not here you fucking moron.
> >
> >Couldn't stand hearing the truth, sonny?
> >
>
> Forgotten what you were talking about, grandad?

Where all the money comes from for the NZRU including the players as well of
course. You probably think that it all just comes out of thin air, and that
paying each All Black at least a million a year won't be a problem, sonny.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 10:23:22
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:54:47 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>
>"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:05:55 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
>(remove
>> eye)> wrote:
>>
>> >Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a
>rugby
>> >game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you.
>>
>> Of course last Saturday (July 26th ) on TV3 there was a Free live rugby
>game
>> starting at 9:30 the same time that a game was starting on Sky Sport. THey
>both
>> happened to be the same game too. NZ vs Aussie
>> --
>>
>> Col
>
>It wasn't been shown live on TV3 though. Others knew the results before the
>game had finished on TV3.
>
>E. Scrooge
>


It wasn't been ? hehehehehe ..

For anyone without sky who watched TV3 last Saturday night would not know the
score until the end of the match. THe fact that Sky users knew the score
slightly earlier is irrelevant. TV3 insert ads during the game which means the
finish time is slightly later . To all intents one could argue that if one did
not have sky then the TV3 is close enough to being a live broadcast.
--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


02 Aug 2003 10:36:14
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:54:47 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:05:55 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected]
> >(remove
> >> eye)> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a
> >rugby
> >> >game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you.
> >>
> >> Of course last Saturday (July 26th ) on TV3 there was a Free live
rugby
> >game
> >> starting at 9:30 the same time that a game was starting on Sky Sport.
THey
> >both
> >> happened to be the same game too. NZ vs Aussie
> >> --
> >>
> >> Col
> >
> >It wasn't been shown live on TV3 though. Others knew the results before
the
> >game had finished on TV3.
> >
> >E. Scrooge
> >
>
>
> It wasn't been ? hehehehehe ..
>
> For anyone without sky who watched TV3 last Saturday night would not know
the
> score until the end of the match. THe fact that Sky users knew the score
> slightly earlier is irrelevant. TV3 insert ads during the game which means
the
> finish time is slightly later . To all intents one could argue that if one
did
> not have sky then the TV3 is close enough to being a live broadcast.
> --
>
> Col

Just too bad if someone in your house heard the final score being reported
on the radio, while you're still watching TV3 with half an hour to go.

E. Scrooge




02 Aug 2003 01:26:59
mg
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

"David Covey" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:3f2ad957$0$10784

> BTW, you're supposed to drink red win with red meat. not bloody beer.
>
> UD

This I will agree on. Speaking of wine, do the even English export Wine? Or do
you drink the excellent SH grapes?




01 Aug 2003 18:31:56
Brett Dale
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

You are so right, sport is about supply and demand. The reason the All
Blacks
are going to get an $80 thousand dollar bonus because that is how
much they
are worth if the All blacks win the world cup.

The same applies to all sports, the reason soccer players are played
millions
each year is because billions of people watch it. the same applies to
basketball, and also to baseball players who play thier sport. the
reason
why the top ice Hockey players are earning $10 is that the NHL is huge
through the states, canada and europe. Baseball is
huge through the states, asia, and central amercia. Basketball is the
No2
team sport in the world that is why they get paid the money they do.

Look at sports that are unquie to their country, American Football,
Aussie
Rules, Rugby league, Galic football, the players get millions because
people
want to watch it. hell the superbowl is second in worldwide tv ratings
to
the soccer world cup final.

Its all about supply and demand.






Bobs <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?


02 Aug 2003 03:36:58
Newsman
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 09:54:47 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected] (remove eye) > wrote:

>
>"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 07:05:55 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
>(remove
>> eye)> wrote:
>>
>> >Don't let the simple FACT that Sky TV has never been free, and that a
>rugby
>> >game hasn't been shown live for free for a few years now bother you.
>>
>> Of course last Saturday (July 26th ) on TV3 there was a Free live rugby
>game
>> starting at 9:30 the same time that a game was starting on Sky Sport. THey
>both
>> happened to be the same game too. NZ vs Aussie
>> --
>>
>> Col
>
>It wasn't been shown live on TV3 though. Others knew the results before the
>game had finished on TV3.

Is it so importent to be first to know that some dimbulbs will pay for
the privilege?

If so, then fools and their money are soon parted.


02 Aug 2003 03:39:28
Newsman
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Fri, 1 Aug 2003 22:26:19 +0100, "David Covey"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>mg <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> "David Covey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > UD
>>
>> A cross posting troll, does it get any worse?
>
> I'm not a troll. I'm a genuine ten year plus rsru-er. And I never
>cross posted. Somebody else did. A New Zealander I shouild think as nobody
>else would know "nz.general" existed. Have there been any NZ Generals? I
>should imagine that teh NZ Army would only stretch to the odd Lance Corporal
>of two...
>
It's mostly Privates around these parts.


02 Aug 2003 21:18:27
Chris Wilkinson
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank

Hi there,

Brent wrote:
> Chris Wilkinson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>>The Wallabies were offered significantly more IIRC from scratch?
>
> The Wallabies, South Africans, English and French...

Pretty much all the best teams the AB's need to beat to win
the world cup...

>>If so, its just jealousy on the part of the AB's...
>
> Are you familiar with the concept of the market? Jealousy is rather a
> strange term to apply. Most professionals have an idea of the market
> for their services, and compare what they get to what their peers get
> paid.

If you buy ice-creams for 2 kids, and give one of them an extra scoop,
what is the other going to do? Get jealous and complain! That is a
bit different scenario from the AB's bonus row, because the AB's are
a child griping about SOMEONE ELSES KID getting an extra scoop. In
most cases a parent would tell their kid to 'shut up, because thats all
you're gonna get', but sadly these spoilt children know about lawyers...

> You are aware of the nature of a performance bonus, aren't you? The
> concept is that they get paid if they win, not if they lose. If they
> win, they will prove themselves, and get paid. If they don't, then
> they won't.

Yes I am. All the rugby children are being told they will get an
ice-cream with extra scoops for behaving, but since the AB's know how
much of a scoop the other kids may get, they're griping about it and
asking for more, so how is that different from the concept of jealousy?

Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.



02 Aug 2003 12:54:16
David Covey
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

mg <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "David Covey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:3f2ad957$0$10784
>
> > BTW, you're supposed to drink red win with red meat. not bloody
beer.
> >
> > UD
>
> This I will agree on. Speaking of wine, do the even English export Wine?
Or do
> you drink the excellent SH grapes?

The one good thing about living in England compared to Germany is that
you can get a good selection of SH vino. OTOH, living in Southern Germany
we used to be able to get some luvverly Italian wines that would never make
it here. Costly but in a class of their own. And for an unassuming
everyday wine like Montepulciano d'Abruzzo I would pay a couple of Euros. I
saw it for almost five quid yesterday! It's a f*ckig rip off living in the
UK and the standard of living stinks.

Cheers

UD




03 Aug 2003 10:31:31
Tama
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Justin Thyme" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > Like you say - its their job, and like any job, you negotiate yourself a
> > contract *BEFORE* you start, if you dont like it, you quit.
>
> The World Cup's a bit different, though, not their regular work routine.
> It's a bit like being asked to work on Christmas day. Before I went out on
> my own, if my boss asked me to do something like that, we negotiated. If
he
> didn't make it worth my while, I stayed home Christmas day with a
drumstick
> in one hand and a beer in the other while some (less capable) sucker
toiled
> away for peanuts. The ABs were entitled to make their stand. Serfdom went
> out quite a few years ago, despite the best efforts of the contracts act.
> I'm not shedding any tears for the NZRFU. Don't you think that if they
could
> have found another 25 players to do an equal job for less money they
> wouldn't have gone for it faster than Winston Peters fleeing an immigrant
> cabbie?
>
>

Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular work
routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The world
cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every four
years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.





03 Aug 2003 12:42:29
Justin Thyme
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Tama" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]

>
> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular work
> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The
world
> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every four
> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.

Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either, but I
want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the NZRFU
need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won they'll get
their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust me,
it'll be money well spent. ;)




03 Aug 2003 12:50:01
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]
>
>>
>> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular work
>> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The
>world
>> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every four
>> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
>
>Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either, but I
>want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the NZRFU
>need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won they'll get
>their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust me,
>it'll be money well spent. ;)
>
The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional rights they have
to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for advertising, computer
games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.

--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


03 Aug 2003 02:15:41
Newsman
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 13:35:59 +1200, "Tama"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>> >
>> > "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]
>> > >
>> > > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > news:[email protected]
>>
>> >
>> > Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular
>work
>> > routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The
>> world
>> > cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every
>four
>> > years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
>>
>> Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either, but I
>> want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the
>NZRFU
>> need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won they'll
>get
>> their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust me,
>> it'll be money well spent. ;)
>>
>>
>
>Please read this slowly, then you might understand.
>
>The difference is *THE PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY*, anyone in that squad who does
>not want to play for the AB's in the World Cup should get out now !

PLease read this even more slowly, then it will all become even
clearer.

The difference is *THE PLAYERS WANT IT ALL, AND THEN PLENTY MORE".

("Greed is good. Greed *works*" - Gordon Gecko, "Wall Street")


03 Aug 2003 18:19:09
Justin Thyme
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Tama" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > >
> > > "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > >
> > > > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]
> >
> > >
> > > Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular
> work
> > > routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The
> > world
> > > cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every
> four
> > > years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> >
> > Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either, but
I
> > want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the
> NZRFU
> > need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won they'll
> get
> > their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust me,
> > it'll be money well spent. ;)
> >
> >
>
> Please read this slowly, then you might understand.
>
> The difference is *THE PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY*, anyone in that squad who
does
> not want to play for the AB's in the World Cup should get out now !

Please read this at any speed you wish: It's a professional game. They have
the right to seek what they think they're worth. Justin Marshall could even
ask for a lifetime supply of free but dodgy haircuts if he wanted.

Then it's up to the bosses to decide whether to pay. They're free to
decline. No guns are at anyone's heads. This is called bargaining. Chances
are the ABs may have had to make some kind of concession to get the dosh.
Again, that's their choice.

BTW, the execs on the NZRFU undoubtedly grab themselves the best money and
conditions possible when they come on board. Don't think it's just the ABs
who look after No 1.

And of course the ABs want to play. When workers strike it doesn't mean that
they don't want to work. It means they want to work -- for what they feel is
fair compensation.

If a paltry extra 30 grand per All Black is going to break the bank then
maybe we need to find some people who can do a better job of running the
bank. Certain English loose forwards probably spend more than that on
recreational drugs every couple of weeks.




04 Aug 2003 08:58:33
T-Boy
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]
> > >>
> > >> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[email protected]
> > >> >
> > >> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >> > news:[email protected]
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular
> work
> > >> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches. The
> > >world
> > >> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every
> four
> > >> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > >
> > >Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either, but I
> > >want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the
> NZRFU
> > >need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won they'll
> get
> > >their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust me,
> > >it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > >
> > The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional rights
> they have
> > to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for advertising,
> computer
> > games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.
> >
> > --
> > Col
>
> Hardly. It all helps to get more people to go to the games, which then
> helps to pay the buggers a $100,000 or so for the year out of that. Any

Can you not read plain English. They *don't* get anything.

how do you mean, "which then helps to pay the buggers" ???

YOu see, now you're getting onto the root of the problem -
unfortunately, your brain just can't figure it. We know that
the TV rights are worth chitloads of dosh - so the source of
the money, or enough of it, isn't the problem - never was.

> advertising and computer games is good for their long term benefit as well.
> It hasn't hurt to promote Lomu into getting a huge overall income, by
> pushing his face in front of the fans on things.

Nothing to do with it.

>
> Any other business people would have to pay for advertising, just as long as
> their business doesn't involve running round with a ball all over a field,
> which is hardly rocket science to do that. If they can get a few hundred
> new fans from any promotional work, then they'll get the benefit out of it.

Again, nothing to do with it - find out the facts before you
start your crap rants.

--
Duncan


04 Aug 2003 09:58:11
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"T-Boy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > "Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[email protected]
> > > >>
> > > >> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >> news:[email protected]
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:[email protected]
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their
"regular
> > work
> > > >> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches.
The
> > > >world
> > > >> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar.
Every
> > four
> > > >> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > > >
> > > >Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either,
but I
> > > >want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and
the
> > NZRFU
> > > >need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won
they'll
> > get
> > > >their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust
me,
> > > >it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > > >
> > > The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional rights
> > they have
> > > to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for advertising,
> > computer
> > > games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Col
> >
> > Hardly. It all helps to get more people to go to the games, which then
> > helps to pay the buggers a $100,000 or so for the year out of that. Any
>
> Can you not read plain English. They *don't* get anything.
>
> how do you mean, "which then helps to pay the buggers" ???
>
> YOu see, now you're getting onto the root of the problem -
> unfortunately, your brain just can't figure it. We know that
> the TV rights are worth chitloads of dosh - so the source of
> the money, or enough of it, isn't the problem - never was.
>
> > advertising and computer games is good for their long term benefit as
well.
> > It hasn't hurt to promote Lomu into getting a huge overall income, by
> > pushing his face in front of the fans on things.
>
> Nothing to do with it.
>
> >
> > Any other business people would have to pay for advertising, just as
long as
> > their business doesn't involve running round with a ball all over a
field,
> > which is hardly rocket science to do that. If they can get a few
hundred
> > new fans from any promotional work, then they'll get the benefit out of
it.
>
> Again, nothing to do with it - find out the facts before you
> start your crap rants.
>
> --
> Duncan

If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their incomes.
To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of their
$100,000 a year.
There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from the
Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the money
for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of supporters
paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.

E. Scrooge




04 Aug 2003 15:38:54
Peter Ashford
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank


>>I don;t think that the NZRFU did anything especially embarrasing. What
>>should they have done that they didn't?
>>
>
>
> Neither do I , it was the un-professional brinkmanship from the players (who
> like to be called professionals !) that was embarrasing.
>
>

Agreed



04 Aug 2003 19:33:39
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:08:00 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:



>> >If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their
>incomes.
>> >To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of their
>> >$100,000 a year.
>> >There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from the
>> >Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the
>money
>> >for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of
>supporters
>> >paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.
>> >
>> >E. Scrooge
>> >
>>
>> Scroogie. Duncan is one of the few people on here who knows exactly
>where the
>> money comes from.
>> --
>>
>> Col
>
>Well it's not coming from you directly, though someone probably ends up
>paying for you to be there at the games. All promotions done for rugby
>software can only be good and in the best interests of the game.

Jonah Lomu has a computer game based on his character and he received megabucks
for it.
>Duncan won't mind booking the live games that he can't attend in person
>through Sky's Pay Per View setup as well?

I have no idea . Why don't you ask him ?

> It can only help the profits for
>the NZRU which would then help the profits of the players down through the
>chain.

SO you think that Sky will pay the NZRU a portion of the money collected for pay
per view ? They usually just negotiate a flat fee with the sports concerned.
As usual you know fuck all about rugby, fuck all about commercial realism and
fuck all about anything really .

--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


04 Aug 2003 19:42:12
Tama
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Justin Thyme" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > >
> > > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > >
> > > > "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their "regular
> > work
> > > > routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches.
The
> > > world
> > > > cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar. Every
> > four
> > > > years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > >
> > > Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either,
but
> I
> > > want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and the
> > NZRFU
> > > need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won
they'll
> > get
> > > their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust
me,
> > > it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Please read this slowly, then you might understand.
> >
> > The difference is *THE PLAYERS WANT TO PLAY*, anyone in that squad who
> does
> > not want to play for the AB's in the World Cup should get out now !
>
> Please read this at any speed you wish: It's a professional game. They
have
> the right to seek what they think they're worth. Justin Marshall could
even
> ask for a lifetime supply of free but dodgy haircuts if he wanted.

Sure - but there comes a point where what is fair vs whats greedy, where
holding they are holding the black jersey to ransom for a few extra bucks.
Do they ever consider the fans in all this ? after all, its us who will end
up paying for whatever they manage to squeeze out of the NZRFU in the end.
They should remember, with out supporters they aint worth fuck-all.....







04 Aug 2003 20:13:47
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 17:08:00 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> >If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their
> >incomes.
> >> >To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of
their
> >> >$100,000 a year.
> >> >There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from
the
> >> >Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the
> >money
> >> >for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of
> >supporters
> >> >paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.
> >> >
> >> >E. Scrooge
> >> >
> >>
> >> Scroogie. Duncan is one of the few people on here who knows exactly
> >where the
> >> money comes from.
> >> --
> >>
> >> Col
> >
> >Well it's not coming from you directly, though someone probably ends up
> >paying for you to be there at the games. All promotions done for rugby
> >software can only be good and in the best interests of the game.
>
> Jonah Lomu has a computer game based on his character and he received
megabucks
> for it.
> >Duncan won't mind booking the live games that he can't attend in person
> >through Sky's Pay Per View setup as well?
>
> I have no idea . Why don't you ask him ?
>
> > It can only help the profits for
> >the NZRU which would then help the profits of the players down through
the
> >chain.
>
> SO you think that Sky will pay the NZRU a portion of the money collected
for pay
> per view ? They usually just negotiate a flat fee with the sports
concerned.
> As usual you know fuck all about rugby, fuck all about commercial realism
and
> fuck all about anything really .
>
> --
> Col

It's amazing just how truly green you are about such matters. The contract
would hardly involve "give us 5 bucks and you can broadcast it however you
like". When knowing full well that Sky could make a killing from PPV live
test games.

Sky and the NZRU could agree that live rugby games have a huge Pay Per View
potential to bring in some real money to both organisations, if they could
only see the gold lining that's behind the clouds. It might even the NZRU
that suggests to Sky to go to Pay Per View for the live games, so that
they'll both do damn well out of it. Such a deal could simply mean that the
NZRU will get a percentage from each Pay Per View game. Which would make
sense, as some games are bound to be more popular than a few others will be.

E. Scrooge




04 Aug 2003 03:07:05
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Peter Ashford <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >>I don;t think that the NZRFU did anything especially embarrasing. What
> >>should they have done that they didn't?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Neither do I , it was the un-professional brinkmanship from the players (who
> > like to be called professionals !) that was embarrasing.
> >
> >
>
> Agreed

Not to go all schoolyard, but the NZRFU did it too. 'Take $50k now,
right now, or we drop the offer to $40k'.

That it is not how you negotiate in a professional manner with your
employees.

Cheers

Brent


04 Aug 2003 03:17:55
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Peter Ashford <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Brent wrote:
>
> > No. It has been said publicly that the AB contract provided for a
> > bonus in general terms, with the amount to be negotiated later. You
> > are wrong.
> >
>
>
> The bonus was verbally agreed upon and then reneged. Verbal contracts
> are binding in NZ law.

Verbal contracts are binding. But the interviews I've heard indicate
that there wasn't a true agreement back earlier in the year. Rather,
the parties talked around the numbers in general terms, with the
Players Association indicating that the offer made was close to
acceptable, and that there was perhaps only a little further to go.

That's not a binding verbal contract.

One thing that worries me down the road - Chris Moller said in an
interview with Willie Lose on the newstalk ZB website that the only
reason NZRFU are making a profit at the moment is because, in the far
distant past, the NZRFU hedged its NewsCorp payments. That is, the
NZRFU is receiving value from NewsCorp as if the USD rate was about
40c, rather than what it is at the moment (about 60c).

Apparently the difference would take the NZRFU from a $10M profit to a
$8M loss.

Hopefully the NZ$ falls off a cliff before the next NewsCorp contract
comes around (this would help my own personal situation as well, so
I'm all for it).

Cheers

Brent


04 Aug 2003 22:37:57
Laurie Fleming
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

In article <[email protected] >, Col^ <[email protected]>
wrote:

> >Similar hair style, not that much difference. Even their real names are the
> >same - "Mitchell".
> >Watch the Poms make the most of it at the World Cup - "How's your team
> >going, Mr Garnett?" ;-)
> >
> >E. Scrooge
> >
>
> Hmmmmm... Stupid boy ..

You haven't snipped (but I did it for you): stupider boy... (^-8


05 Aug 2003 00:41:46
T-Boy
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

In article <[email protected]ug.co.nz >,
[email protected] says...
>
> "T-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > >
> > > "Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > >news:[email protected]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:[email protected]
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > >> > news:[email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their
> "regular
> > > work
> > > > >> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test matches.
> The
> > > > >world
> > > > >> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar.
> Every
> > > four
> > > > >> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > > > >
> > > > >Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year, either,
> but I
> > > > >want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You and
> the
> > > NZRFU
> > > > >need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won
> they'll
> > > get
> > > > >their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc. Trust
> me,
> > > > >it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > > > >
> > > > The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional rights
> > > they have
> > > > to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for advertising,
> > > computer
> > > > games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Col
> > >
> > > Hardly. It all helps to get more people to go to the games, which then
> > > helps to pay the buggers a $100,000 or so for the year out of that. Any
> >
> > Can you not read plain English. They *don't* get anything.
> >
> > how do you mean, "which then helps to pay the buggers" ???
> >
> > YOu see, now you're getting onto the root of the problem -
> > unfortunately, your brain just can't figure it. We know that
> > the TV rights are worth chitloads of dosh - so the source of
> > the money, or enough of it, isn't the problem - never was.
> >
> > > advertising and computer games is good for their long term benefit as
> well.
> > > It hasn't hurt to promote Lomu into getting a huge overall income, by
> > > pushing his face in front of the fans on things.
> >
> > Nothing to do with it.
> >
> > >
> > > Any other business people would have to pay for advertising, just as
> long as
> > > their business doesn't involve running round with a ball all over a
> field,
> > > which is hardly rocket science to do that. If they can get a few
> hundred
> > > new fans from any promotional work, then they'll get the benefit out of
> it.
> >
> > Again, nothing to do with it - find out the facts before you
> > start your crap rants.
> >
> > --
> > Duncan
>
> If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their incomes.
> To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of their
> $100,000 a year.
> There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from the
> Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the money
> for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of supporters
> paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.

More claptrap from the duck. I'll spell it out for you - the
large majority of the money comes from television rights. Got
any idea what television audience the last RWC got four years
ago??

I can't believe you're such a simpleton!!!

--
Duncan


05 Aug 2003 08:26:28
Abdullah Emran Yousuf
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon



Bobs wrote:

> It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> force for goodness.
>
> "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
>
> Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> hosting rights to Aussie?
>
> --
> "Behind every strong man is a government tax collector" - Bobs
>
> (see Bobs' Book of Quotes)

Good call mate

cheers
Emran



05 Aug 2003 08:48:59
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it


"T-Boy" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> >
> > "T-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > [email protected] says...
> > > >
> > > > "Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]
> > > > > On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme"
<[email protected] >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > >news:[email protected]
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > >> news:[email protected]
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in
message
> > > > > >> > news:[email protected]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their
> > "regular
> > > > work
> > > > > >> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test
matches.
> > The
> > > > > >world
> > > > > >> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar.
> > Every
> > > > four
> > > > > >> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year,
either,
> > but I
> > > > > >want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You
and
> > the
> > > > NZRFU
> > > > > >need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won
> > they'll
> > > > get
> > > > > >their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc.
Trust
> > me,
> > > > > >it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional
rights
> > > > they have
> > > > > to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for
advertising,
> > > > computer
> > > > > games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Col
> > > >
> > > > Hardly. It all helps to get more people to go to the games, which
then
> > > > helps to pay the buggers a $100,000 or so for the year out of that.
Any
> > >
> > > Can you not read plain English. They *don't* get anything.
> > >
> > > how do you mean, "which then helps to pay the buggers" ???
> > >
> > > YOu see, now you're getting onto the root of the problem -
> > > unfortunately, your brain just can't figure it. We know that
> > > the TV rights are worth chitloads of dosh - so the source of
> > > the money, or enough of it, isn't the problem - never was.
> > >
> > > > advertising and computer games is good for their long term benefit
as
> > well.
> > > > It hasn't hurt to promote Lomu into getting a huge overall income,
by
> > > > pushing his face in front of the fans on things.
> > >
> > > Nothing to do with it.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Any other business people would have to pay for advertising, just as
> > long as
> > > > their business doesn't involve running round with a ball all over a
> > field,
> > > > which is hardly rocket science to do that. If they can get a few
> > hundred
> > > > new fans from any promotional work, then they'll get the benefit out
of
> > it.
> > >
> > > Again, nothing to do with it - find out the facts before you
> > > start your crap rants.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Duncan
> >
> > If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their
incomes.
> > To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of their
> > $100,000 a year.
> > There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from the
> > Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the
money
> > for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of
supporters
> > paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.
>
> More claptrap from the duck. I'll spell it out for you - the
> large majority of the money comes from television rights. Got
> any idea what television audience the last RWC got four years
> ago??
>
> I can't believe you're such a simpleton!!!
>
> --
> Duncan

Just what has the NZRU got to do with RWC? Sky doesn't even have the rights
for it, mainly because they couldn't afford the kind of money that TVNZ
would've had to pay the RWC organisation for them.
A lot of the money for the NZRU also comes from advertising, idiot. Bums on
seats, TV rights, and advertising all add up to give a nice total. If Col
is right about the telly rights being worth 2 million alone, then the bums
on the seats at the games for a year would go well pass that figure, you
little joke.

E. Scrooge




05 Aug 2003 09:36:52
Jack
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Abdullah Emran Yousuf" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>
> Bobs wrote:
>
> > It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> > events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> > delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have a
> > force for goodness.
> >
> > "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> > peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal mine
> > and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist side
> > bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
> >
> > Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are the
> > ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they are,
> > and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> > all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> > shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been offered
> > a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck in
> > an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> > fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> > deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> > punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> > hosting rights to Aussie?

I like watching real sport, not businessmen pretending to be sportspeople.
If you were to go back to the old days and take all the commercialism out of
sport and give everyone back free live TV broadcasts, you would find the
best players and the sport would improve again. The best sportspeople aren't
interested in money, they just enjoy their hobby. Rugby has gone downhill
completely in the days where money rules, and if you have a look at some of
the old films, you will see what a fast moving scintillating sport it used
to be. Now the backs just plough themselves back into the forwards and
seldom think of spinning the ball along the line. They kick possession away
all the time because they simply don't have the confidence to hang on to the
ball and get it out to their speedster wingers. Would someone tell them that
possession of the ball is far better than "gaining" a few metres with a kick
and giving the ball away. The All Blacks possession is not great
and neither is their tendency to make so many useless kicks. They simply
aren't worth the money they demand.

Jack






04 Aug 2003 22:00:05
rick boyd
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On 4 Aug 2003 03:17:55 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:


>Hopefully the NZ$ falls off a cliff before the next NewsCorp contract
>comes around (this would help my own personal situation as well, so
>I'm all for it).

Me too. It makes holidays in NewZealand so much more worth while. Well
do I remember that dream period in the 80s when I got NZ$1.80 for
every Aus dollar I had in my wallet. An $800 bonus for walking through
Christchurch airport! You beauty!

-- rick boyd


05 Aug 2003 16:28:50
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Jack" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Abdullah Emran Yousuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> >
> > Bobs wrote:
> >
> > > It is with furious and righteous indignation that I have watched the
> > > events unfold in the last week. On one side we have an insipid and
> > > delusional bunch of tedious communists, and on the other side we have
a
> > > force for goodness.
> > >
> > > "The All Blacks aren't worth that money" I hear the whinging little
> > > peons cry. "My daddy worked for 50 years shovelling shit in a coal
mine
> > > and only got paid $80 a day" I hear the faggots from the communist
side
> > > bleat out like a sheep with its balls caught in an electric fence.
> > >
> > > Well, bugger off to Cuba you pondering arse bandits. These lads are
the
> > > ELITE of their sport. They have sacrificed a lot to get where they
are,
> > > and have the following of millions of people in NZ and elsewhere. It's
> > > all about supply and demand. If millions wanted to watch your daddy
> > > shovel shit in some West Coast mine, I'm sure he would have been
offered
> > > a lot of cash as well. The same for us poor plebs doomed to be stuck
in
> > > an office for eternity. That's the way life made it for us, so stop
> > > fucking whinging. If they generate the money and get the results, they
> > > deserve to get a big cut of the NZRFU profits. Why should they be
> > > punished for the idiotic mistakes the NZRFU made in losing the WC
> > > hosting rights to Aussie?
>
> I like watching real sport, not businessmen pretending to be sportspeople.
> If you were to go back to the old days and take all the commercialism out
of
> sport and give everyone back free live TV broadcasts, you would find the
> best players and the sport would improve again. The best sportspeople
aren't
> interested in money, they just enjoy their hobby. Rugby has gone downhill
> completely in the days where money rules, and if you have a look at some
of
> the old films, you will see what a fast moving scintillating sport it used
> to be. Now the backs just plough themselves back into the forwards and
> seldom think of spinning the ball along the line. They kick possession
away
> all the time because they simply don't have the confidence to hang on to
the
> ball and get it out to their speedster wingers. Would someone tell them
that
> possession of the ball is far better than "gaining" a few metres with a
kick
> and giving the ball away. The All Blacks possession is not great
> and neither is their tendency to make so many useless kicks. They simply
> aren't worth the money they demand.
>
> Jack

Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they expect to
be getting megabucks all in one go.
Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field themselves, as
they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to get the
big bucks for.
The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players - most
likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents, those players
then get far more mention than anyone else in the team. All the real
tactics in the game, is about how to make the most money out of it.

E. Scrooge




05 Aug 2003 17:04:05
T-Boy
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

In article <[email protected] >,
[email protected] says...
>
> "T-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > >
> > > "T-Boy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > In article <[email protected]>,
> > > > [email protected] says...
> > > > >
> > > > > "Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[email protected]
> > > > > > On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 12:42:29 +1200, "Justin Thyme"
> <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >"Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > >news:[email protected]
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> "Justin Thyme" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > > > >> news:[email protected]
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > "Tama" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message
> > > > > > >> > news:[email protected]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Its nothing at all like being asked to Christmas day. Their
> > > "regular
> > > > > work
> > > > > > >> routine" is to play rugby, and if selected, to play Test
> matches.
> > > The
> > > > > > >world
> > > > > > >> cup is not a "surpirse - late addition" to the rugby calendar.
> > > Every
> > > > > four
> > > > > > >> years I believe, plenty of time to plan for.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Christmas Day isn't a "surprise late addition" to the year,
> either,
> > > but I
> > > > > > >want extra bucks -- big bucks -- if you ask me to work it. You
> and
> > > the
> > > > > NZRFU
> > > > > > >need to look on this bonus as an investment -- if the cup is won
> > > they'll
> > > > > get
> > > > > > >their money back with added exposure, greater sponsorship etc.
> Trust
> > > me,
> > > > > > >it'll be money well spent. ;)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > The teams for the world cup must also sign away any promotional
> rights
> > > > > they have
> > > > > > to the IRB who can use any player any time to onsell for
> advertising,
> > > > > computer
> > > > > > games etc .. and the players get a big fat ZERO.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Col
> > > > >
> > > > > Hardly. It all helps to get more people to go to the games, which
> then
> > > > > helps to pay the buggers a $100,000 or so for the year out of that.
> Any
> > > >
> > > > Can you not read plain English. They *don't* get anything.
> > > >
> > > > how do you mean, "which then helps to pay the buggers" ???
> > > >
> > > > YOu see, now you're getting onto the root of the problem -
> > > > unfortunately, your brain just can't figure it. We know that
> > > > the TV rights are worth chitloads of dosh - so the source of
> > > > the money, or enough of it, isn't the problem - never was.
> > > >
> > > > > advertising and computer games is good for their long term benefit
> as
> > > well.
> > > > > It hasn't hurt to promote Lomu into getting a huge overall income,
> by
> > > > > pushing his face in front of the fans on things.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing to do with it.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Any other business people would have to pay for advertising, just as
> > > long as
> > > > > their business doesn't involve running round with a ball all over a
> > > field,
> > > > > which is hardly rocket science to do that. If they can get a few
> > > hundred
> > > > > new fans from any promotional work, then they'll get the benefit out
> of
> > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Again, nothing to do with it - find out the facts before you
> > > > start your crap rants.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Duncan
> > >
> > > If less people turn up at their games, it could well affect their
> incomes.
> > > To promote more people along shouldn't be that hard as all part of their
> > > $100,000 a year.
> > > There rugby income doesn't just simply come out of thin air, or from the
> > > Government like with Maori TV. You've obviously got no idea where the
> money
> > > for rugby players actually comes from. Without the thousands of
> supporters
> > > paying up at the gates etc. they'd get fuck all.
> >
> > More claptrap from the duck. I'll spell it out for you - the
> > large majority of the money comes from television rights. Got
> > any idea what television audience the last RWC got four years
> > ago??
> >
> > I can't believe you're such a simpleton!!!
> >
> > --
> > Duncan
>
> Just what has the NZRU got to do with RWC?

It's a foundation Union member (1 of 8) that make up the
Executive Council of the IRB. ie. quite a lot.

Before you embarass yourself any further, maybe you should find
out some facts about the IRB and how they operate the RWC.

Perhaps you could start with these:

http://www.irb.com/about/index.cfm
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/brand.htm

--
Duncan


05 Aug 2003 17:44:28
Sam
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon

Jack wrote:
>
> "Abdullah Emran Yousuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]

>
> I like watching real sport, not businessmen pretending to be sportspeople.
> If you were to go back to the old days and take all the commercialism out of
> sport and give everyone back free live TV broadcasts, you would find the
> best players and the sport would improve again. The best sportspeople aren't
> interested in money, they just enjoy their hobby. ......................
>
> Jack

Ever heard of Tiger Woods? Name a better golfer from the past and of the same
age.

Sam


05 Aug 2003 18:09:06
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:50 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they expect to
>be getting megabucks all in one go.

So 13 of the squad have been All Blacks for only 5 minutes eh ?
I didn't know that.

>Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field themselves, as
>they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to get the
>big bucks for.

Pricks ? Buggers. ? Care to define exactly which players are which.

>The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players
> most likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents,
> those players then get far more mention than anyone else in the team.

Do you happen to have any proof of that or are you talking crap as usual ?


> All the real tactics in the game, is about how to make the most money out of it.

You are bloody hopeless ..


--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


05 Aug 2003 19:17:41
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:50 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they expect
to
> >be getting megabucks all in one go.
>
> So 13 of the squad have been All Blacks for only 5 minutes eh ?
> I didn't know that.
>
> >Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field themselves, as
> >they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to get
the
> >big bucks for.
>
> Pricks ? Buggers. ? Care to define exactly which players are which.
>
> >The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players
> > most likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents,
> > those players then get far more mention than anyone else in the team.
>
> Do you happen to have any proof of that or are you talking crap as usual ?
>
> --
> Col

Your mate Keith Quin couldn't speak enough about Lomu, he was the only
player on the fild as far as he was concerned. Lomu's manager probably saw
Quin right for praising the Hell out of Lomu every 5 minutes.

As if being selected to play in the All Blacks while making a good living
doing it wasn't enough, it's a bit rich for them to be demanding what their
bonus should be. The chickens haven't even hatched yet, but the buggers
have already counted them anyway.

E. Scrooge




05 Aug 2003 19:42:46
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:17:41 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>
>"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:50 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
>(remove
>> eye)> wrote:
>>
>> >Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they expect
>to
>> >be getting megabucks all in one go.
>>
>> So 13 of the squad have been All Blacks for only 5 minutes eh ?
>> I didn't know that.
>>
>> >Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field themselves, as
>> >they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to get
>the
>> >big bucks for.
>>
>> Pricks ? Buggers. ? Care to define exactly which players are which.
>>
>> >The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players
>> > most likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents,
>> > those players then get far more mention than anyone else in the team.
>>
>> Do you happen to have any proof of that or are you talking crap as usual ?
>>
>> --
>> Col
>
>Your mate Keith Quin couldn't speak enough about Lomu, he was the only
>player on the fild as far as he was concerned. Lomu's manager probably saw
>Quin right for praising the Hell out of Lomu every 5 minutes.

He is not a mate of mine and his n ame is Quinn. Lomu has never been on the
fild. How much did Lomu's manager pay Quinn?

>As if being selected to play in the All Blacks while making a good living
>doing it wasn't enough, it's a bit rich for them to be demanding what their
>bonus should be. The chickens haven't even hatched yet, but the buggers
>have already counted them anyway.
>
>E. Scrooge

For fucks sake , it is only an incentive bonus you dork. Many industry workers
negotiate performance bonuses. You just hate the thought that someone does well
in life financially compared to your pitiful existence. Go get a life .


--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


05 Aug 2003 20:32:38
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:17:41 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:50 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected]
> >(remove
> >> eye)> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they
expect
> >to
> >> >be getting megabucks all in one go.
> >>
> >> So 13 of the squad have been All Blacks for only 5 minutes eh ?
> >> I didn't know that.
> >>
> >> >Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field themselves,
as
> >> >they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to get
> >the
> >> >big bucks for.
> >>
> >> Pricks ? Buggers. ? Care to define exactly which players are which.
> >>
> >> >The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players
> >> > most likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents,
> >> > those players then get far more mention than anyone else in the team.
> >>
> >> Do you happen to have any proof of that or are you talking crap as
usual ?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Col
> >
> >Your mate Keith Quin couldn't speak enough about Lomu, he was the only
> >player on the fild as far as he was concerned. Lomu's manager probably
saw
> >Quin right for praising the Hell out of Lomu every 5 minutes.
>
> He is not a mate of mine and his n ame is Quinn. Lomu has never been on
the
> fild. How much did Lomu's manager pay Quinn?
>
> >As if being selected to play in the All Blacks while making a good living
> >doing it wasn't enough, it's a bit rich for them to be demanding what
their
> >bonus should be. The chickens haven't even hatched yet, but the buggers
> >have already counted them anyway.
> >
> >E. Scrooge
>
> For fucks sake , it is only an incentive bonus you dork. Many industry
workers
> negotiate performance bonuses. You just hate the thought that someone does
well
> in life financially compared to your pitiful existence. Go get a life .
>
> --
> Col

For fucks sake, these idiots have only been in the job for 5 fucking
minutes, and they wanted a $100,000 bonus EACH.
Get out in the real world if you think someone just starting in a new
position of employment can turn round and demand a large bonus before even
doing anything to earn it.

E. Scrooge




05 Aug 2003 23:03:08
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:32:38 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:17:41 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
<[email protected]
> >(remove
> >> eye)> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Col^" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]
> >> >> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 16:28:50 +1200, "E. Scrooge"
> ><[email protected]
> >> >(remove
> >> >> eye)> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Half of the them have only been All Blacks for 5 minutes and they
> >expect
> >> >to
> >> >> >be getting megabucks all in one go.
> >> >>
> >> >> So 13 of the squad have been All Blacks for only 5 minutes eh ?
> >> >> I didn't know that.
> >> >>
> >> >> >Some of the agents for these pricks should be on the field
themselves,
> >as
> >> >> >they could run rings round some of the buggers they're fighting to
get
> >> >the
> >> >> >big bucks for.
> >> >>
> >> >> Pricks ? Buggers. ? Care to define exactly which players are which.
> >> >>
> >> >> >The media don't help much, they pick on a couple of the players
> >> >> > most likely thanks to some back handers from the players agents,
> >> >> > those players then get far more mention than anyone else in the
team.
> >> >>
> >> >> Do you happen to have any proof of that or are you talking crap as
> >usual ?
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Col
> >> >
> >> >Your mate Keith Quin couldn't speak enough about Lomu, he was the only
> >> >player on the fild as far as he was concerned. Lomu's manager
probably
> >saw
> >> >Quin right for praising the Hell out of Lomu every 5 minutes.
> >>
> >> He is not a mate of mine and his n ame is Quinn. Lomu has never been
on
> >the
> >> fild. How much did Lomu's manager pay Quinn?
> >>
> >> >As if being selected to play in the All Blacks while making a good
living
> >> >doing it wasn't enough, it's a bit rich for them to be demanding what
> >their
> >> >bonus should be. The chickens haven't even hatched yet, but the
buggers
> >> >have already counted them anyway.
> >> >
> >> >E. Scrooge
> >>
> >> For fucks sake , it is only an incentive bonus you dork. Many industry
> >workers
> >> negotiate performance bonuses. You just hate the thought that someone
does
> >well
> >> in life financially compared to your pitiful existence. Go get a life
.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Col
> >
> >For fucks sake, these idiots have only been in the job for 5 fucking
> >minutes, and they wanted a $100,000 bonus EACH.
> >Get out in the real world if you think someone just starting in a new
> >position of employment can turn round and demand a large bonus before
even
> >doing anything to earn it.
> >
> >E. Scrooge
> >
> For fucks sake. These fine NZ rugby players have been in the job for
longer than
> 5 minutes. Those that have recently joined the squad just go along with
the
> senior players . The bonus is only payable on results ..
> Considering the fact that they must also sign aways some of their rights
that
> mean they will miss out of promotional money i think it is fair their
demands
> were partially met. The NZRU will make plenty if the All Blacks win the WC
.
> --
>
> Col

For fucks sake! "These fine rugby players" are that good that Mr Garnett
has deselected at least half of them, only to later turn round and select
them again. He had Tane Randall in out of the All Blacks like a damn yoyo.
It should be interesting to see what other changes to the team that Alf
might decide to make before the WC has even started. One or two of the
current All Blacks just might miss out on a share of the loot should an All
Black team win the thing.

E. Scrooge




05 Aug 2003 18:35:58
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

On 4 Aug 2003 03:07:05 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:

[...]
>
>Not to go all schoolyard, but the NZRFU did it too. 'Take $50k now,
>right now, or we drop the offer to $40k'.
>
>That it is not how you negotiate in a professional manner with your
>employees.

They're not employees, they're contractors, and that sort of thing
happens every day. Contractors demanding bonuses for something they've
already contracted to do is unethical.





05 Aug 2003 18:36:06
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:44:28 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:

>Jack wrote:
>>
>> "Abdullah Emran Yousuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>
>>
>> I like watching real sport, not businessmen pretending to be sportspeople.
>> If you were to go back to the old days and take all the commercialism out of
>> sport and give everyone back free live TV broadcasts, you would find the
>> best players and the sport would improve again. The best sportspeople aren't
>> interested in money, they just enjoy their hobby. ......................
>>
>> Jack
>
>Ever heard of Tiger Woods? Name a better golfer from the past and of the same
>age.
>
>Sam

He said "real sport". Mark Twain said all that needs to be said about
golf.


05 Aug 2003 19:28:36
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:36:46 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:

[...]
>>
>> For fucks sake, these idiots have only been in the job for 5 fucking
>> minutes, and they wanted a $100,000 bonus EACH.
>> Get out in the real world if you think someone just starting in a new
>> position of employment can turn round and demand a large bonus before even
>> doing anything to earn it.
>>
>> E. Scrooge
>
>Where was it ever said they wanted the bonus up front?
>
>You're the one that's obviously not been in the real world
>recently! Plenty of employment contracts have bonuses incorporated
>dependent on achieving certain levels of performance.
>
>Sam

They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.



06 Aug 2003 11:53:18
Sam
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my

Greig Blanchett wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 17:44:28 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Jack wrote:
> >>
> >> "Abdullah Emran Yousuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]
> >
> >>
> >> I like watching real sport, not businessmen pretending to be sportspeople.
> >> If you were to go back to the old days and take all the commercialism out of
> >> sport and give everyone back free live TV broadcasts, you would find the
> >> best players and the sport would improve again. The best sportspeople aren't
> >> interested in money, they just enjoy their hobby. ......................
> >>
> >> Jack
> >
> >Ever heard of Tiger Woods? Name a better golfer from the past and of the same
> >age.
> >
> >Sam
>
> He said "real sport". Mark Twain said all that needs to be said about
> golf.

Yeah? Not much of a factual man are you? The attribution of the so-called
quote has never been verified.

As for real sport give us a definition. As for spectators, I'd say that
more people watch golf played in a week than rugby in 10 years.


06 Aug 2003 11:57:25
Sam
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my

Greig Blanchett wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:36:46 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [...]
> >>
> >> For fucks sake, these idiots have only been in the job for 5 fucking
> >> minutes, and they wanted a $100,000 bonus EACH.
> >> Get out in the real world if you think someone just starting in a new
> >> position of employment can turn round and demand a large bonus before even
> >> doing anything to earn it.
> >>
> >> E. Scrooge
> >
> >Where was it ever said they wanted the bonus up front?
> >
> >You're the one that's obviously not been in the real world
> >recently! Plenty of employment contracts have bonuses incorporated
> >dependent on achieving certain levels of performance.
> >
> >Sam
>
> They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
> including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
> of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
> that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.

How thick are you? What they signed was the RWC contract, without signing
that they wouldn't be playing in the RWC. Not the contract they signed
to be contracted to the NZ union.


06 Aug 2003 01:06:31
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 11:57:25 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:


[...]
>> >
>> >You're the one that's obviously not been in the real world
>> >recently! Plenty of employment contracts have bonuses incorporated
>> >dependent on achieving certain levels of performance.
>> >
>> >Sam
>>
>> They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
>> including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
>> of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
>> that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.
>
>How thick are you? What they signed was the RWC contract, without signing
>that they wouldn't be playing in the RWC. Not the contract they signed
>to be contracted to the NZ union.

You're an expert on contract law, eh? And you're privy to AB
contracts? You pathetic lightweight - you're talking out your arse and
you know it. You start throwing around lines like "real world" and
"performance bonus" - what's your experience? What's your first hand
knowledge? Another fucking wet-behind-the-ears MBA or are you still a
fucking student? Stick to what you know, Sammy and you won't look such
a dipshit.



05 Aug 2003 20:57:49
Shineything
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

Greig Blanchett <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:36:46 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [...]
> >>
> >> For fucks sake, these idiots have only been in the job for 5 fucking
> >> minutes, and they wanted a $100,000 bonus EACH.
> >> Get out in the real world if you think someone just starting in a new
> >> position of employment can turn round and demand a large bonus before even
> >> doing anything to earn it.
> >>
> >> E. Scrooge
> >
> >Where was it ever said they wanted the bonus up front?
> >
> >You're the one that's obviously not been in the real world
> >recently! Plenty of employment contracts have bonuses incorporated
> >dependent on achieving certain levels of performance.
> >
> >Sam

>
> They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
> including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
> of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
> that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.


And there's the difference. They're not. Because their 'services'
are more in demand than yours, they were able to successfully
renegotiate their contract. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can
see. I'd have a crack at it myself if I thought it'd work
sufficiently well to offset the costs involved.

Some may say it all bears a nasty resemblance to the bad old days of
watersiders etc holding the country to ransom. But there's a
significant difference. The objective of unions was always to extract
more money for doing less of a task that anybody could do but which
was subject to extreme entry barriers. The ABs objective has been to
extract more money for achieving the ultimate in a task that only a
few can do but which is open to anybody who wants to try.

Anybody who moans about the ABs getting too much etc should simply
retrain as a rugby player and get selected for the ABs.


06 Aug 2003 16:15:04
Kip
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On 5 Aug 2003 20:57:49 -0700, [email protected] (Shineything)
wrote:

>And there's the difference. They're not. Because their 'services'
>are more in demand than yours, they were able to successfully
>renegotiate their contract. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can
>see. I'd have a crack at it myself if I thought it'd work
>sufficiently well to offset the costs involved.
>
>Some may say it all bears a nasty resemblance to the bad old days of
>watersiders etc holding the country to ransom. But there's a
>significant difference. The objective of unions was always to extract
>more money for doing less of a task that anybody could do but which
>was subject to extreme entry barriers. The ABs objective has been to
>extract more money for achieving the ultimate in a task that only a
>few can do but which is open to anybody who wants to try.
>
>Anybody who moans about the ABs getting too much etc should simply
>retrain as a rugby player and get selected for the ABs.

You are wrong on all counts. There is nothing at all to do with supply
and demand, the contract the players were holding out on had nothing
to do with their supply of service and nothing to do with bonuses.

There refusal to sign the player agreements was about nothing but
greed, extracting money from a non-profit organisation. The money has
to come from somewhere. In this case it will mean less for the
volunteers of the game.

This was a case of calculated militant unionism, nothing else.


06 Aug 2003 17:46:04
Col^
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:28:05 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
eye) > wrote:

>They until recently they've looked more like Dad's Army out on the field
>very aptly seleceted and coached by Alf Garnett.

Ever had any thought that because of professional rugby the other teams have
improved and are up to or ahead of the All Black standard ?




--

Col

Col's law.
Thinly sliced cabbage..


06 Aug 2003 07:52:35
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On 5 Aug 2003 20:57:49 -0700, [email protected] (Shineything)
wrote:

>Greig Blanchett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>> On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 21:36:46 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
[...]
>>
>> They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
>> including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
>> of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
>> that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.
>
>
>And there's the difference. They're not. Because their 'services'
>are more in demand than yours, they were able to successfully
>renegotiate their contract.

My services have been in demand for 15 years at the highest level -
rather longer than the shelf life of an All Black. And the reason
they're still in demand is because I don't screw who I contract to.

> Nothing wrong with that as far as I can
>see. I'd have a crack at it myself if I thought it'd work
>sufficiently well to offset the costs involved.
>

Welcome to the scrapheap. All it takes is a lack of ethics.


>Some may say it all bears a nasty resemblance to the bad old days of
>watersiders etc holding the country to ransom. But there's a
>significant difference.

There's no difference.

> The objective of unions was always to extract
>more money for doing less of a task that anybody could do but which
>was subject to extreme entry barriers. The ABs objective has been to
>extract more money for achieving the ultimate in a task that only a
>few can do but which is open to anybody who wants to try.

And this is mere spin. The ABs have won a couple of games on the trot
and used this as leverage. Whether they can actually win the thing
remains to be seen - they sure weren't holding out for bonuses right
after losing to England for the first time at home for 30 years, were
they? Talk about cynical.

>
>Anybody who moans about the ABs getting too much etc should simply
>retrain as a rugby player and get selected for the ABs.

Don't be silly. Either their agents are hopeless and failed to take
into account the probable workload in which case they took unethical
action - the equivalent for me would be sorting out some multi-million
quid project then just before go-live date, holding the code base to
ransom - or they're just out and out greedheads, in which case they
took unethical action. Kips points about removing money from
grassroots etc. are all valid as well, but on top of that, their
ethics suck - they tarnish the legacy of previous All Blacks.


06 Aug 2003 07:57:58
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:05:35 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:

[...]
>
>As for performance related bonuses, I was in receipt of them, when
>you were still shitting yellow.

What, momma gave you a lollipop if you managed to get it in the bowl?




06 Aug 2003 08:06:34
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:13:14 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:

[...]
>
>Yeah, and if you had said it, who would remember? You couldn't
>even remember the quote to post it!

What quote? The six word one widely attributed to Mark Twain or some
other which you seem to want to argue the provenance of?

>
>So by your definition, soccer isn't a sport? Yeah right!

You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
matter of scale.

>
>Still, eastenders was the giveaway, anyone that acknowledges it's
>existence had the cheese slip off their cerebral cracker long ago..

So you go through life not acknowledging things exististence based on
your no doubt objective view of their cerebral worth? How fucking
pompous can you get? You are Morrisey Breen and I claim my five
pounds.




06 Aug 2003 19:44:03
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Col^" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:28:05 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected]
(remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
> >They until recently they've looked more like Dad's Army out on the field
> >very aptly seleceted and coached by Alf Garnett.
>
> Ever had any thought that because of professional rugby the other teams
have
> improved and are up to or ahead of the All Black standard ?
>
>
> --
> Col

Ever thought that their standard is only any good in the games where they
decide that it's best to quickly pass the ball around as they get closer to
to a gap through to the try line?
Professional rugby has made some players hang onto the ball, because if they
don't try to keep the thing for as long as they can Mr Garnett just might
decide to dump them. Working as well functioning coordinated team gets the
desired results which wins the games, as has been proven time and time again
by the feared World dominating All Blacks of old, Charlie.

You would've noticed in the last 2 games that the ball was passed around a
lot more than it has been for a long time by an All Black team, which was a
truly great sight to see. If the All Blacks can keep that kind of good
standard of rugby up, all the other teams will be nothing more than tail end
Charlies.

E. Scrooge




06 Aug 2003 20:13:13
Sam
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my

Greig Blanchett wrote:
>
> On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:13:14 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> [...]
> >
> >Yeah, and if you had said it, who would remember? You couldn't
> >even remember the quote to post it!
>
> What quote? The six word one widely attributed to Mark Twain or some
> other which you seem to want to argue the provenance of?
>
> >
> >So by your definition, soccer isn't a sport? Yeah right!
>
> You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
> golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
> confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
> recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
> matter of scale.
>
> >
> >Still, eastenders was the giveaway, anyone that acknowledges it's
> >existence had the cheese slip off their cerebral cracker long ago..
>
> So you go through life not acknowledging things exististence based on
> your no doubt objective view of their cerebral worth? How fucking
> pompous can you get? You are Morrisey Breen and I claim my five
> pounds.

You never defined sport, but because of some nebulous quote,
declare golf not a sport?

Spectators, fans, following, call it what you like, You too thick
to work it out? I thought so.

As for Eastenders, I couldn't give a tinker's damn, why should I bother
with a lot of whinging poms acting a non-existent crap scenario which
is not typical of that area of London.? If I want crap like that, I could
open more of your posts!

However, if I want to listen to an asshole, I prefer to fart!

Sam


06 Aug 2003 20:05:58
Brian Harmer
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 08:06:34 +0100, Greig Blanchett <[email protected] >
wrote:

>
>You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
>golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
>confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
>recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
>matter of scale.


Hmmm ... define Olympic shooting for me please. Is it a sport?
If not, why is it in the Olympics?
If it is, how does it differ in kind from snooker?
Or the equestrian events (in which the horse does the work)?





06 Aug 2003 20:20:43
E. Scrooge
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it


"Sam" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Greig Blanchett wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:13:14 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> > >
> > >Yeah, and if you had said it, who would remember? You couldn't
> > >even remember the quote to post it!
> >
> > What quote? The six word one widely attributed to Mark Twain or some
> > other which you seem to want to argue the provenance of?
> >
> > >
> > >So by your definition, soccer isn't a sport? Yeah right!
> >
> > You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
> > golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
> > confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
> > recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
> > matter of scale.
> >
> > >
> > >Still, eastenders was the giveaway, anyone that acknowledges it's
> > >existence had the cheese slip off their cerebral cracker long ago..
> >
> > So you go through life not acknowledging things exististence based on
> > your no doubt objective view of their cerebral worth? How fucking
> > pompous can you get? You are Morrisey Breen and I claim my five
> > pounds.
>
> You never defined sport, but because of some nebulous quote,
> declare golf not a sport?
>
> Spectators, fans, following, call it what you like, You too thick
> to work it out? I thought so.
>
> As for Eastenders, I couldn't give a tinker's damn, why should I bother
> with a lot of whinging poms acting a non-existent crap scenario which
> is not typical of that area of London.? If I want crap like that, I could
> open more of your posts!
>
> However, if I want to listen to an asshole, I prefer to fart!
>
> Sam

Must've been quite a few years since you last spoke anything then.

E. Scrooge




06 Aug 2003 22:47:27
Chris Wilkinson
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon

Hi there,

Col^ wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:28:05 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
> eye)> wrote:
>
>
>>They until recently they've looked more like Dad's Army out on the field
>>very aptly seleceted and coached by Alf Garnett.
>
> Ever had any thought that because of professional rugby the other teams have
> improved and are up to or ahead of the All Black standard ?

Other nations have never been that far behind the All Blacks. The
belief among New Zealand 'boofheads' that the All Blacks ARE the
standard is a lie propagated to make the nation not feel so small
and pathetic down here in this corner of the world...

Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.



06 Aug 2003 22:52:54
Chris Wilkinson
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon

Hi there,

Sam wrote:
>
> As for real sport give us a definition. As for spectators, I'd say that
> more people watch golf played in a week than rugby in 10 years.

Ever more reason to view the All Black bonus demands as nothing
more than greed...supply and demand remember?

Kind regards,

Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.





06 Aug 2003 23:05:50
John Cawston
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankonit

Chris Wilkinson wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Col^ wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 16:28:05 +1200, "E. Scrooge" <[email protected] (remove
> > eye)> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>They until recently they've looked more like Dad's Army out on the field
> >>very aptly seleceted and coached by Alf Garnett.
> >
> > Ever had any thought that because of professional rugby the other teams have
> > improved and are up to or ahead of the All Black standard ?
>
> Other nations have never been that far behind the All Blacks.

Correct. Nevertheless the ABs have managed a 100 year record of just under 73% wins in
all their tests.

> The
> belief among New Zealand 'boofheads' that the All Blacks ARE the
> standard is a lie propagated to make the nation not feel so small
> and pathetic down here in this corner of the world...

Well.. elements of truth at odd times. However since professionalism the ABs have
improved their winning percentage to 78% in all their tests.

JC




06 Aug 2003 07:10:04
Brent
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Greig Blanchett <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 4 Aug 2003 03:07:05 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:
>
> [...]
> >
> >Not to go all schoolyard, but the NZRFU did it too. 'Take $50k now,
> >right now, or we drop the offer to $40k'.
> >
> >That it is not how you negotiate in a professional manner with your
> >employees.
>
> They're not employees, they're contractors, and that sort of thing
> happens every day. Contractors demanding bonuses for something they've
> already contracted to do is unethical.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I am reasonable certain that they
are treated as employees for tax purposes. The tax test is
essentially the same as the general common law test. They're
employees, regardless of what they style themselves to be.

Cheers

Brent


06 Aug 2003 18:49:40
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:05:58 +1200, Brian Harmer
<[email protected] > wrote:

>On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 08:06:34 +0100, Greig Blanchett <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
>>golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
>>confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
>>recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
>>matter of scale.
>
>
>Hmmm ... define Olympic shooting for me please. Is it a sport?
>If not, why is it in the Olympics?
>If it is, how does it differ in kind from snooker?
>Or the equestrian events (in which the horse does the work)?
>
>

Yes, shooting is a sport. Anything which has the potential for human
fatalities is a sport. Next.

PS. Weather doesn't count.


06 Aug 2003 19:01:18
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On 6 Aug 2003 07:07:15 -0700, [email protected] (Brent) wrote:

>Greig Blanchett <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
>> They're contractors. You negotiate your contract before you sign,
>> including target bonuses. Once you've signed, that's it until the end
>> of that contract. I've been contracting for 15 years and if I tried
>> that stunt the All Blacks pulled, I'd be out of business.
>
>I thought I recalled a fair amount of publicity about the ABs being
>treated as employees for tax purposes.
>
>Regardless, both parties accepted that there would be a bonus for the
>RWC, terms to be negotiated later. NZRFU's folly not to lock things
>down earlier.

As I read it, they thought they had. The shyster who shook on it
recanted later and said it wasn't on paper, therefore it wasn't
binding. As any student of commercial law knows, a verbal agreement
with witnesses IS binding. They should have called his bluff, even if
it meant getting thrown out of the WC. I wouldn't have minded. I'd
rather see parasite lawyers and scum sucking agents kicked in the nuts
nice and early rather than have the door opened to this sort of
blackmail in the future. Guess what will happen every four years now,
then every couple, then eventually every year?



>
>Cheers
>
>Brent



06 Aug 2003 19:05:12
Greig Blanchett
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 20:13:13 +1200, Sam <[email protected] > wrote:

[...]
>
>However, if I want to listen to an asshole, I prefer to fart!
>
>Sam

Fart away, Sammy. Fart away.


07 Aug 2003 09:18:22
Andy Mulhearn
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bankon it

Greig Blanchett <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> On 6 Aug 2003 20:00:20 GMT, "Andy Mulhearn" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >In message <[email protected]>, Greig Blanchett
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 13:13:14 +1200, Sam <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >[snipped]
> >
> >> You have the logic skills of Nik. I never defined sport. You defined
> >> golf as a sport because it has lots of spectators. You seem to have
> >> confused sport and recreation. Is snooker a sport? No, it's a
> >> recreation. And the only difference between snooker and golf is a
> >> matter of scale.
> >
> >Only one comment Greg which is that Golf has provided some of the most
> >significant demonstrations of sportsmanship I've have seen - Woosnam with
> >the 19 clubs, the two guys at the Open this year, Jacklin v Nicklaus in the
> >the Ryder cup and many more. While it may be hard to justify "a good walk
> >spoiled" as a sport, It's hard to faulty the sportsmanship of the people
> >competing at the highest level.
> >
> >Andy
>
> Good point, but sportsmanship has nothing to do with sport apart from
> sharing a syllable. Not cheating at cards can be considered good
> sportsmanship. Does that make cards a sport?

Agreed, though the link is sometimes seen as more close than that.
Incorrectly as you point out.

>Even player numbers is
> hardly an accurate gauge of a sport. Sure, golf has the numbers,
> probably more participants than soccer and rugby combined, but then
> the hands down winner for participating numbers is fishing. Is that a
> sport? I contend that it's a recreation too, just like golf. In fact,

Number of participants should never be a consideration.

> the large numbers of participants might be MORE of an indicator of a
> recreation than anything else - if it's something the masses can do to
> an adequate standard, then it must be a recreation.

Well that would depend on your definition of an adequate standard.
Getting round an 18 hole golf course in parr would be considered
adequate, but how many members of the general public either have the
ability or the perseverence to achieve that standard?

From dictionary.com (irrelevant definitions trimmed):

sport
n.
1.
1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs
and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed
by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.

I happen to think that golf is a sport, a view supported by these
definitions, but I don't think Ballroom dancing is a sport, even
though it fits with these three definitions.

A question. Would you describe playing a bit of touch rugby in the
park one afternoon as sport? Rugby is clearly a sport but that strikes
me as more recreational than sporting. The person hacking around the
course in 102 with his mates is clearly after recreation not sport,
but Tiger Woods doesn't play recreational golf.

All very subjective. A bit of a bugger isn't it.

Andy


08 Aug 2003 15:09:03
Jake
Re: The AB's are worth the $80,000 bonus. Feel free to quote my bank on it

Quite
"Brent" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Peter Ashford <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
> > >>I don;t think that the NZRFU did anything especially embarrasing. What
> > >>should they have done that they didn't?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Neither do I , it was the un-professional brinkmanship from the
players (who
> > > like to be called professionals !) that was embarrasing.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Agreed
>
> Not to go all schoolyard, but the NZRFU did it too. 'Take $50k now,
> right now, or we drop the offer to $40k'.
>
> That it is not how you negotiate in a professional manner with your
> employees.
>
> Cheers
>
> Brent