26 Feb 2007 18:43:08
Christopher Anton
HRR and continuous affiliation

Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?

Potential spanner in the works for some.





26 Feb 2007 11:18:17
Liz
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>
> Potential spanner in the works for some.

So spill the beans, who?.... Or do we wait for revelations courtesy of
the Slug?



26 Feb 2007 19:30:05
Christopher Anton
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation


"Liz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
>> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated
>> to
>> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the
>> closing
>> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
>> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
>> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
>> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>>
>> Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
> So spill the beans, who?.... Or do we wait for revelations courtesy of
> the Slug?
>
Well I can't possibly comment for Thames but with a lot of prodding and
cajoling they all got them in before the due date in the West Mids. It's the
sort of thing a university might forget to do for instance.




26 Feb 2007 15:42:15
Teaplant
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

I doubt very much that HRR would be so petty and small minded to care
about that (when there's more important stuff like the temperature of
the Champers and country of origin of the strawberries to worry
about). The spirit of that particular rule is still served if a club
has been temporarily suspended for a short while for not providing
paperwork to the ARA.

And if they are that petty, then I am sure that someone would point
out that they are still qualified if they have managed to go more than
one year without suspension at some point in the past (if you have
worded your version of the rule exactly as they have).

Either way, I am delighted that the paperwork of the West Midland
clubs is up to scratch. Feeling a bit vulnerable down here on the
Thames though.
teaplant



27 Feb 2007 00:13:04
Christopher Anton
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation


"Teaplant" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I doubt very much that HRR would be so petty and small minded to care
> about that

no but I bet some clubs would be, and if they have a complaint...




28 Feb 2007 20:33:17
David Biddulph
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

"Liz" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
>> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated
>> to
>> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the
>> closing
>> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
>> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
>> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
>> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>>
>> Potential spanner in the works for some.

> So spill the beans, who?.... Or do we wait for revelations courtesy of
> the Slug?

No, you don't have to wait for the Slug in this case. The ARA now has a
list, though not yet including Thames region.
http://www.oara-rowing.org/render.aspx?siteID=1&navIDs=1,249,251,1133

It looks as if racing in the East is going to be rather thin.
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/




28 Feb 2007 22:48:24
liz
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

there are at most 7 clubs on the Thames list - and I'm told none of them are
"big hitters"

liz


"David Biddulph" <groups [at] biddulph.org.uk > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Liz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
>>> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated
>>> to
>>> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the
>>> closing
>>> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
>>> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your
>>> club
>>> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit
>>> out,
>>> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last
>>> year?
>>>
>>> Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
>> So spill the beans, who?.... Or do we wait for revelations courtesy of
>> the Slug?
>
> No, you don't have to wait for the Slug in this case. The ARA now has a
> list, though not yet including Thames region.
> http://www.oara-rowing.org/render.aspx?siteID=1&navIDs=1,249,251,1133
>
> It looks as if racing in the East is going to be rather thin.
> --
> David Biddulph
> Rowing web pages at
> http://www.biddulph.org.uk/
>




01 Mar 2007 12:17:31
Carl
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

Christopher Anton wrote:
> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>
> Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
>
>

I note that 25 clubs in E Region have allegedly failed to submit safety
audits.

One might reasonably suppose there to be a direct connection between
this & the cavalier attitude shown by certain E. Region officers to
safety, in which it has been considered OK for:
1. An E. Region officer, who is a Solicitor who was stated to have been
co-opted onto ARA Council for his legal expertise, to advise
(apparently) & to support the ARA in its flagrant defiance of Coroners'
Rule 43 advice & to propose a motion approving Gary Harris's conduct of
negotiations with Coroners, following 2 rowing deaths?
2. E. Region chairman's gratuitous decision to publish, on the ARA
website, an entirely fallacious account of the Coroner's verdict in the
2nd Leo Blockley inquest?
3. Said regional chairman's (& ARA's) refusal to either withdraw or
apologise for same?
4. Recent inane spoutings on RSR, locally supported, from a well-known
E. Region ARA member which falsely alleged that Leo Blockley caused his
own death?

With regional leadership like that, clubs within E. Region could be said
to have been unusually disadvantaged.

Note, for stark comparison & example, the 100% clean record of NE
Region. This region has a conscientious leadership which has in recent
years taken water safety very seriously & made it top priority. NE
Region remains the only region to require full buoyancy in all shells
used in competition within the region - a requirement with which the ARA
is known to be unhappy, just as it was unhappy with the SARA full
buoyancy requirement, even to the extent of attempting (unsuccessfully,
I'm happy to say) to nobble it.

The ARA, whatever it may currently be telling the Government imposed
RoSPA enquiry into rowing safety, has spent the last 6 & more years
denying key aspects of rowing safety, thereby encouraging a dismissive
attitude to safety within the sport. It is _still_ failing to publish
or acknowledge submitted accident reports, still failing to act upon
accident data received, still opposing the Rule 43 requirements of 2
Coroners, still disputing shell buoyancy validity & standards with all &
sundry including FISA. And the ARA remains, after 6 years, in clear
breach of the terms then in its own water safety code on the required
ARA response upon being made aware of the potential for an accident of
fatal or injurious consequences. A truly despicable record.

I hope, therefore, that rather than now standing in self-important
judgement over the clubs presently debarred, the ARA will now take
responsibility for its own lack of leadership on safety matters & make
it a priority to work with & assist those clubs within E.Region
presently barred from competition. It has, however, to be said that on
should not be holding one breath in anticipation of such action. More
likely the ARA will have the gall to try to use these unfortunate
failures to show RoSPA how tough it is now being on safety......

As I said, such a large incidence of non-compliance can only be the
consequence of lousy leadership from the top.

Carl
--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: [email protected] Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)


01 Mar 2007 05:40:38
JY
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
<[email protected] > wrote:
> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>
> Potential spanner in the works for some.

Presumably if you are suspended you cannot enter ANY ARA events.
Anybody cross-checked the list against the WHORR start list?



01 Mar 2007 05:45:25
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On 1 Mar, 13:40, "JY" <[email protected] > wrote:
> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
> > notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
> > an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
> > date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
> > audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
> > was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
> > then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>
> > Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
> Presumably if you are suspended you cannot enter ANY ARA events.
> Anybody cross-checked the list against the WHORR start list?

For the mens HORR does a suspension prevent them from entering or just
racing. In other words, if a club is not affiliated (suspended) when
entries close does that mean the entry will not be accepted ?



01 Mar 2007 13:54:47
liz
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

that may depend on whether they've removed the clubs from OARA.

liz

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 1 Mar, 13:40, "JY" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR
>> > and
>> > notice that clubs must have been established and continuously
>> > affiliated to
>> > an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the
>> > closing
>> > date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water
>> > safety
>> > audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your
>> > club
>> > was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit
>> > out,
>> > then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last
>> > year?
>>
>> > Potential spanner in the works for some.
>>
>> Presumably if you are suspended you cannot enter ANY ARA events.
>> Anybody cross-checked the list against the WHORR start list?
>
> For the mens HORR does a suspension prevent them from entering or just
> racing. In other words, if a club is not affiliated (suspended) when
> entries close does that mean the entry will not be accepted ?
>




01 Mar 2007 05:56:12
JY
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On 1 Mar, 13:45, [email protected] wrote:
> On 1 Mar, 13:40, "JY" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
>
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
> > > notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated to
> > > an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the closing
> > > date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
> > > audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your club
> > > was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit out,
> > > then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last year?
>
> > > Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
> > Presumably if you are suspended you cannot enter ANY ARA events.
> > Anybody cross-checked the list against the WHORR start list?
>
> For the mens HORR does a suspension prevent them from entering or just
> racing. In other words, if a club is not affiliated (suspended) when
> entries close does that mean the entry will not be accepted ?

I would have thought entering. If its that clever, OARA ought not
accept an entry from a dis-affiliated club. However this is the ARA we
are talking about.



01 Mar 2007 23:07:55
Christopher Anton
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation


> Presumably if you are suspended you cannot enter ANY ARA events.
> Anybody cross-checked the list against the WHORR start list?
>

Correct you can't. I imagine the committee are scrutinising them closely.




02 Mar 2007 08:17:00
David Biddulph
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

"David Biddulph" <groups [at] biddulph.org.uk > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Liz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On 26 Feb, 18:43, "Christopher Anton"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Just checking up on the eligibility requirements for this year's HRR and
>>> notice that clubs must have been established and continuously affiliated
>>> to
>>> an appropriate national federation for at least one year before the
>>> closing
>>> date. With this year's get tough approach of the ARA to the water safety
>>> audit might there be a few red faces in some clubs as surely if your
>>> club
>>> was suspended last week, even for a day whilst you sorted your audit
>>> out,
>>> then you surely haven't been "continuously affiliated" for the last
>>> year?
>>>
>>> Potential spanner in the works for some.
>
>> So spill the beans, who?.... Or do we wait for revelations courtesy of
>> the Slug?
>
> No, you don't have to wait for the Slug in this case. The ARA now has a
> list, though not yet including Thames region.
> http://www.oara-rowing.org/render.aspx?siteID=1&navIDs=1,249,251,1133
>
> It looks as if racing in the East is going to be rather thin.

The list has been updated, and a few have responded quickly, including
Bedford RC & CUWBC.
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/




02 Mar 2007 03:33:40
Andrew
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

> I note that 25 clubs in E Region have allegedly failed to submit safety
> audits.

> As I said, such a large incidence of non-compliance can only be the
> consequence of lousy leadership from the top.

In my former capacity as a club Water Safety Advisor in E Region, I
did not once recieve a reply to emails sent to the Regional Water
Safety Advisor. Last year I sent off the Safety Audit with an updated
Club Safety Policy and recieved not even an acknowledgement.

Not much surprise to me if therefore perfectly well run clubs have
fallen down there.

Andrew



02 Mar 2007 12:04:13
Carl
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

Andrew wrote:
>>I note that 25 clubs in E Region have allegedly failed to submit safety
>>audits.
>
>
>>As I said, such a large incidence of non-compliance can only be the
>>consequence of lousy leadership from the top.
>
>
> In my former capacity as a club Water Safety Advisor in E Region, I
> did not once recieve a reply to emails sent to the Regional Water
> Safety Advisor. Last year I sent off the Safety Audit with an updated
> Club Safety Policy and recieved not even an acknowledgement.
>
> Not much surprise to me if therefore perfectly well run clubs have
> fallen down there.
>
> Andrew
>

Many thanks for that insight, Andrew!

It is depressingly unsurprising to learn that, in E. Region, your good
efforts on safety went straight into a regional officer's round file.
And I note the uncharacteristic silence from than quarter...

Now, a very important question for those in the know:
How does the ARA plan to verify the accuracy of the safety audit returns?

Given the absence of supervision, inadequate guidance & the lack of any
meaningful ARA-approved buoyancy standard, one may suppose that some
clubs will have marked themselves "leniently". So there may be returns
which are, let's say, rather more wishful than strictly accurate.

In any meaningful self-assessment process it is essential to conduct an
independent audit of the returns, including follow-up inspections by
experts. Without such checks, no exercise of this kind can have real
validity or worth. In which case this will have been little better than
window-dressing.

Carl

--
Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
Email: [email protected] Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)


05 Mar 2007 06:23:28
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On 2 Mar, 12:04, Carl <[email protected] > wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
> >>I note that 25 clubs in E Region have allegedly failed to submit safety
> >>audits.
>
> >>As I said, such a large incidence of non-compliance can only be the
> >>consequence of lousy leadership from the top.
>
> > In my former capacity as a club Water Safety Advisor in E Region, I
> > did not once recieve a reply to emails sent to the Regional Water
> > Safety Advisor. Last year I sent off the Safety Audit with an updated
> > Club Safety Policy and recieved not even an acknowledgement.
>
> > Not much surprise to me if therefore perfectly well run clubs have
> > fallen down there.
>
> > Andrew
>
> Many thanks for that insight, Andrew!
>
> It is depressingly unsurprising to learn that, in E. Region, your good
> efforts on safety went straight into a regional officer's round file.
> And I note the uncharacteristic silence from than quarter...
>
> Now, a very important question for those in the know:
> How does the ARA plan to verify the accuracy of the safety audit returns?
>
> Given the absence of supervision, inadequate guidance & the lack of any
> meaningful ARA-approved buoyancy standard, one may suppose that some
> clubs will have marked themselves "leniently". So there may be returns
> which are, let's say, rather more wishful than strictly accurate.
>
> In any meaningful self-assessment process it is essential to conduct an
> independent audit of the returns, including follow-up inspections by
> experts. Without such checks, no exercise of this kind can have real
> validity or worth. In which case this will have been little better than
> window-dressing.
>
> Carl
>
> --
> Carl Douglas Racing Shells -
> Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessories
> Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
> Email: [email protected] Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 Fax: -466550
> URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
club :)



05 Mar 2007 14:42:04
mpruscoe
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

[email protected] wrote:
>
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)
>
Astrophysicist rowers...


(The address given in the Almanack is the Mullard Radio Astronomy
Observatory)


05 Mar 2007 07:50:04
TidewayUmpire
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

On Mar 5, 2:23=EF=BF=BDpm, [email protected] wrote:
> On 2 Mar, 12:04, Carl <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Andrew wrote:
> > >>I note that 25 clubs in E Region have allegedly failed to submit safe=
ty
> > >>audits.
>
> > >>As I said, such a large incidence of non-compliance can only be the
> > >>consequence of lousy leadership from the top.
>
> > > In my former capacity as a club Water Safety Advisor in E Region, I
> > > did not once recieve a reply to emails sent to the Regional Water
> > > Safety Advisor. =A0Last year I sent off the Safety Audit with an upda=
ted
> > > Club Safety Policy and recieved not even an acknowledgement.
>
> > > Not much surprise to me if therefore perfectly well run clubs have
> > > fallen down there.
>
> > > Andrew
>
> > Many thanks for that insight, Andrew!
>
> > It is depressingly unsurprising to learn that, in E. Region, your good
> > efforts on safety went straight into a regional officer's round file.
> > And I note the uncharacteristic silence from than quarter...
>
> > Now, a very important question for those in the know:
> > How does the ARA plan to verify the accuracy of the safety audit return=
s?
>
> > Given the absence of supervision, inadequate guidance & the lack of any
> > meaningful ARA-approved buoyancy standard, one may suppose that some
> > clubs will have marked themselves "leniently". =A0So there may be retur=
ns
> > which are, let's say, rather more wishful than strictly accurate.
>
> > In any meaningful self-assessment process it is essential to conduct an
> > independent audit of the returns, including follow-up inspections by
> > experts. =A0Without such checks, no exercise of this kind can have real
> > validity or worth. =A0In which case this will have been little better t=
han
> > window-dressing.
>
> > Carl
>
> > --
> > Carl Douglas Racing Shells =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0-
> > =A0 =A0 =A0Fine Small-Boats/AeRoWing low-drag Riggers/Advanced Accessor=
ies
> > Write: The Boathouse, Timsway, Chertsey Lane, Staines TW18 3JY, UK
> > Email: [email protected] =A0Tel: +44(0)1784-456344 =A0Fax: -466550
> > URLs: =A0www.carldouglas.co.uk(boats) &www.aerowing.co.uk(riggers)-Hide=
quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Perhaps it should be Maximum Antropy BC ?? ;{)



05 Mar 2007 16:05:18
Carl Douglas
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

[email protected] wrote:
-
>
>
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)
>
It implies the state of greatest possible disorder

C



05 Mar 2007 18:59:57
Chris Kerr
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

[email protected] wrote:

>
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)

http://www.cambridge.rowing.org.uk/wiki/Maximum_Entropy_Boat_Club


06 Mar 2007 20:22:34
Jonathan Anderson
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

[email protected]om wrote:
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)

Trying to remember when I saw them in an ARA event last but I doubt they
will get banned from Bumps because of it...

Jon
--
Durge: [email protected] http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: [email protected] http://www.rowing.org.uk/

[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]


06 Mar 2007 20:46:58
David Biddulph
Re: HRR and continuous affiliation

<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
...
> The list of suspended clubs is diminishing, but who the hell are
> Maximum Entropy BC....surely a candidate for the weirdest named boat
> club :)

Yes, Steve Gull's club.

Another candidate for the list of weird names was one of my former clubs:
Marconi Underwater Rowing Club.

[Why do LMBC members get involved in strangely-named clubs, I wonder?]
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at
http://www.biddulph.org.uk/