29 Jun 2007 15:39:56
Rodney
Hornby again

Just spotted the following in the ''Sportstar'' for 11 to 17 January 2003:

http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2602/stories/20030111004800800.htm

"Hornby was a tyrant who once threatened that unless a local reporter's
stories were more to his liking he would horsewhip him in front of the
Old Trafford pavilion."

Can anyone substantiate this?
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
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29 Jun 2007 15:41:08
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

Sorry. I keep forgetting to cross-post:
> Just spotted the following in the ''Sportstar'' for 11 to 17 January 2003:
>
> http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2602/stories/20030111004800800.htm
>
> "Hornby was a tyrant who once threatened that unless a local reporter's
> stories were more to his liking he would horsewhip him in front of the
> Old Trafford pavilion."
>
> Can anyone substantiate this?
> --
> Cheers,
> Rodney Ulyate
> My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
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29 Jun 2007 18:10:19
John Hall
Re: Hornby again

In article <[email protected] >,
Rodney <[email protected] > writes:
>Just spotted the following in the ''Sportstar'' for 11 to 17 January 2003:
>
>http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2602/stories/20030111004800800.htm
>
>"Hornby was a tyrant who once threatened that unless a local reporter's
>stories were more to his liking he would horsewhip him in front of the
>Old Trafford pavilion."
>
>Can anyone substantiate this?

I don't know about a tyrant, but I believe he is supposed to have been
hot-tempered, though generally well liked. Alan Gibson says: "He was a
Justice of the Peace, I dare say sometimes a little testy and impetuous
in his decisions, a man much admired, much loved, and much joked about
in Lancashire (where it is a sure sign of confidence if they make jokes
about you)." So not a tyrant by the sound of it.
--
John Hall

"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


29 Jun 2007 19:44:33
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

John Hall wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>> Just spotted the following in the ''Sportstar'' for 11 to 17 January 2003:
>>
>> http://www.hinduonnet.com/tss/tss2602/stories/20030111004800800.htm
>>
>> "Hornby was a tyrant who once threatened that unless a local reporter's
>> stories were more to his liking he would horsewhip him in front of the
>> Old Trafford pavilion."
>>
>> Can anyone substantiate this?
>
> I don't know about a tyrant, but I believe he is supposed to have been
> hot-tempered, though generally well liked. Alan Gibson says: "He was a
> Justice of the Peace, I dare say sometimes a little testy and impetuous
> in his decisions, a man much admired, much loved, and much joked about
> in Lancashire (where it is a sure sign of confidence if they make jokes
> about you)." So not a tyrant by the sound of it.

http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html

Archie Mac said that "no skipper was so genuinely appreciative of good
work on the part of his men or so fearless in his untiring efforts to
win the game".

This is what W.E. Howard reckoned: "Having full confidence of his own
opinions, which, to my mind, is one of the best qualifications of a good
captain, Mr. Hornby was the finest skipper I have seen. On the field he
was a model to young players; possessed of an iron constitution and of
fine physical powers, he was able to accomplish a large amount of
strenuous work. I never heard him say that he was tired after a long day
in the field, but, unfortunately, he did not seem to think others might
be. He told S.M.Crosfield, after the latter had said that he was tired
at the close of play, that he would put him long-field at both ends next
day, and he meant it. His way of captaining a side did not always meet
with the approval of some of the players at times."

...and the historian of the Lancashire Football Association: "He carried
his strict methods of refereeing into all phases of his work. Only his
closest friends understood him, for he was so obsessed with his own
ideas, so convinced that his judgement was always right, and he had so
little sympathy with anyone who did not act as he thought they ought;
that he was at times a stormy petrel and never hesitated to attack, in
what seemed to many of us the most savage and violent fashion, some of
his best friends.... At times too hasty in jumping to conclusions and
too prone to regard a rumour as true, and guilt before proof had been
tendered, there was a danger of him doing the very thing he prided
himself that he would never do, that was to act unfairly. There were
times when I almost felt that he went out of his way to interfere with
matters that did not concern him, and it became necessary for someone to
act as peace-maker. Occasionally he conceived some new idea and with so
much faith in himself he believed in its serviceability. At times it
might have been better had he exercised a greater patience before
committing himself and taken counsel of others..."

According to Don Ambrose, "His efforts on the field were no doubt much
appreciated, but his attitude left much to be desired. During the match
against Burnley in 1872 he was practising near to the scorers tent, when
he was asked by the umpire to desist. He refused in such a manner that
the umpire retired from the game."

Said a local rag of the incident, "There is no doubt the thanks of the
cricket-loving community of the County Palatine are due to Mr. Hornby
for his many magnificent displays of cricket on behalf of his county;
but when he attempts to assume the position of an autocrat, which was
his predominant feature on Wednesday last, in more ways than the one
under notice, he must respectfully understand that such conduct will not
be tolerated by the cricketers upon the banks of the Brun, in this
latter portion of the nineteenth century; and the many Blackburn
gentlemen who left the ground in disgust will long remember the 24th of
July 1872."

When Hornby won the county championship for Lancashire in 1881, an open
letter to the Guardian read, "For a number of years he has played in
nearly all matches. He has always played well. His presence is a
guarantee for a fair attendance for there are hundreds in Lancashire who
will go a day's journey to see him get 50; and more than this, he has
made Lancashire cricket popular with cricketers so that now our best
players are proud to be asked to play for the county."
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
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29 Jun 2007 19:02:42
John Hall
Re: Hornby again

In article <[email protected] >,
Rodney <[email protected] > writes:
>http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
>http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html
<snip >

Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff there. There seem to have been some
contradictory opinions about him, at least one writer seeming to
contradict himself in the course of a single article, saying he was the
finest skipper he had seen and then mentioning some quite serious
faults.
--
John Hall

"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


29 Jun 2007 21:11:01
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

John Hall wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html
> <snip>
>
> Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff there. There seem to have been some
> contradictory opinions about him, at least one writer seeming to
> contradict himself in the course of a single article, saying he was the
> finest skipper he had seen and then mentioning some quite serious
> faults.

Has there ever been a book on Monkey and Stonewaller?
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



29 Jun 2007 21:05:10
John Hall
Re: Hornby again

In article <[email protected] >,
Rodney <[email protected] > writes:
>John Hall wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html
>> <snip>
>> Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff there. There seem to have been
>>some
>> contradictory opinions about him, at least one writer seeming to
>> contradict himself in the course of a single article, saying he was the
>> finest skipper he had seen and then mentioning some quite serious
>> faults.
>
>Has there ever been a book on Monkey and Stonewaller?

A search on Amazon UK didn't turn up anything. A general history of
Lancashire CCC would be likely to have quite a lot on them, though.

The best bet would probably be:
"Heads or Tails? Lancashire Captains 1865 - 1991" by Roy Cavanagh and
Rev. Malcolm G. Lorimer, except that Amazon only know of one copy for
which 75GBP is asked.

This one sounds hopeful:

"Lancashire County cricket: The official history of the Lancashire
County and Manchester Cricket Club, 1864 to 1953" by Archie Ledbrooke,
with Amazon knowing of 2 copies, the cheapest being 12.99.

Or maybe:

"Who's Who of Lancashire County Cricket Club, 1865-1990" by Robert
Brooke and David Goodyear.

John Kay was a respected writer on Lancashire cricket, so maybe:

"Lancashire (County Cricket Club Hist. S) by John Kay".

There are a number of other histories of Lancashire. Also Hornby and
Barlow might be included in "Lancashire CCC 100 Greats".
--
John Hall

"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


30 Jun 2007 00:20:53
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

Billy Murdoch said of Hornby at the close of his speech at the end of
the 1882 Australians' tour: "Before resuming my seat, I desire to
propose the toast 'The English Cricketers and success to Cricket',
coupled with the names of Mr. A.N. Hornby and Mr. C.I. Thornton. Both
these gentlemen have always exhibited the true spirit of the game, and I
thank them for the cordiality of their relations with us."
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



30 Jun 2007 10:26:27
John Hall
Re: Hornby again

In article <[email protected] >,
Rodney <[email protected] > writes:
>Billy Murdoch said of Hornby at the close of his speech at the end of
>the 1882 Australians' tour: "Before resuming my seat, I desire to
>propose the toast 'The English Cricketers and success to Cricket',
>coupled with the names of Mr. A.N. Hornby and Mr. C.I. Thornton. Both
>these gentlemen have always exhibited the true spirit of the game, and
>I thank them for the cordiality of their relations with us."

I think it was Barlow, speaking of Hornby, who said: "First he runs you
out of breath, then he runs you out, then he gives you a sovereign, then
he runs out of sovereigns," Given the value of a sovereign at the time,
this was a very generous recompense for being run out.
--
John Hall

"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)


30 Jun 2007 12:34:29
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

John Hall wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>> Billy Murdoch said of Hornby at the close of his speech at the end of
>> the 1882 Australians' tour: "Before resuming my seat, I desire to
>> propose the toast 'The English Cricketers and success to Cricket',
>> coupled with the names of Mr. A.N. Hornby and Mr. C.I. Thornton. Both
>> these gentlemen have always exhibited the true spirit of the game, and
>> I thank them for the cordiality of their relations with us."
>
> I think it was Barlow, speaking of Hornby, who said: "First he runs you
> out of breath, then he runs you out, then he gives you a sovereign, then
> he runs out of sovereigns," Given the value of a sovereign at the time,
> this was a very generous recompense for being run out.

Charming story. Thanks.
--
Cheers,
Rodney Ulyate
My Blog: http://crickets-rich-tapestry.blogspot.com/

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



02 Jul 2007 13:03:14
Andrew Dunford
Re: Hornby again


"John Hall" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>>John Hall wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
>>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html
>>> <snip>
>>> Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff there. There seem to have been
>>>some
>>> contradictory opinions about him, at least one writer seeming to
>>> contradict himself in the course of a single article, saying he was the
>>> finest skipper he had seen and then mentioning some quite serious
>>> faults.
>>
>>Has there ever been a book on Monkey and Stonewaller?
>
> A search on Amazon UK didn't turn up anything. A general history of
> Lancashire CCC would be likely to have quite a lot on them, though.
>
> The best bet would probably be:
> "Heads or Tails? Lancashire Captains 1865 - 1991" by Roy Cavanagh and
> Rev. Malcolm G. Lorimer, except that Amazon only know of one copy for
> which 75GBP is asked.
>
> This one sounds hopeful:
>
> "Lancashire County cricket: The official history of the Lancashire
> County and Manchester Cricket Club, 1864 to 1953" by Archie Ledbrooke,
> with Amazon knowing of 2 copies, the cheapest being 12.99.

I have a copy of this one. The page facing the title page bears a wonderful
photograph of AN Hornby wearing a splendid striped blazer.

I will try to have a look at it and get back to you, Rodney.

<snip >

Andrew




02 Jul 2007 14:20:41
Rodney
Re: Hornby again

Andrew Dunford wrote:
> "John Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>>> John Hall wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Rodney <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/0/259.html
>>>>> http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Articles/1/1461.html
>>>> <snip>
>>>> Thanks. Lots of interesting stuff there. There seem to have been
>>>> some
>>>> contradictory opinions about him, at least one writer seeming to
>>>> contradict himself in the course of a single article, saying he was the
>>>> finest skipper he had seen and then mentioning some quite serious
>>>> faults.
>>> Has there ever been a book on Monkey and Stonewaller?
>> A search on Amazon UK didn't turn up anything. A general history of
>> Lancashire CCC would be likely to have quite a lot on them, though.
>>
>> The best bet would probably be:
>> "Heads or Tails? Lancashire Captains 1865 - 1991" by Roy Cavanagh and
>> Rev. Malcolm G. Lorimer, except that Amazon only know of one copy for
>> which 75GBP is asked.
>>
>> This one sounds hopeful:
>>
>> "Lancashire County cricket: The official history of the Lancashire
>> County and Manchester Cricket Club, 1864 to 1953" by Archie Ledbrooke,
>> with Amazon knowing of 2 copies, the cheapest being 12.99.
>
> I have a copy of this one. The page facing the title page bears a wonderful
> photograph of AN Hornby wearing a splendid striped blazer.
>
> I will try to have a look at it and get back to you, Rodney.

Thanks, mate.

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