25 Jun 2005 20:29:16
Eddie G
cloth question

When I purchased my very first table last week I asked about the upgraded
Simonis cloth. The sales person asked me why I wanted it, and I said
"because it's what the pros play on". She told me that Simonis is thinner
and that is why the balls are faster, which is why the pros use it, but a
thinner cloth wears faster. I haven't played in about 10 years and only
ever played in a pool hall so know nothing about cloth and asked the sales
person if such a novice as myself would notice a difference and she said
probably not, and that if I did notice a difference it would be less control
with the Simonis over the Mali. Did the sales person do the right thing
talking me out of the more
expensive cloth (for the reasons specified), or do they just get a larger
profit margin on it?

Thanks!!

Eddie G




25 Jun 2005 17:55:11
Dhakala
Re: cloth question

I think the sales gal did right by you. Simonis is what the pros play
on but by your own words you're not a pro, right? :-)


I think the Mali will do you fine for quite a while. Then your skills
will build up and you'll get a hankering for faster cloth that gives
you more of a challenge. That's when you should re-cover with Simonis.



25 Jun 2005 18:05:46
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

oooohhhh sales person fook you big time dude. They tell you this
because they have mali in stock and do not want to order other cloth.
So they sell you a lessor inferior product that they make a higher
profit margin on so you will have less fun playing and then later have
to make a major over haul in yo game. You go into used car lot, tell
them you want cadilliac, you want quality ride, they tell you that you
cant handle caddy, yo need yugo, so they sell you yugo for same price
as caddy and laugh their ass off at you as stupid big dumb fook as you
walk off lot.



25 Jun 2005 18:25:11
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

ooooaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh simonis is thinner than mali which is like yo
rug. You ever buy $50 suit, then you know $500 suit out wears it,
lasts longer, because it is thinner, and has a higher quality or wool
and workmanship. Thin has nothing to do with it. Simonis which costs
more, will out wear and out last cheap house cloth 2 or 3 to 1. They
lie like dog because they want to sell cheap s888 at same price as
simonis and pocket difference. The simonis has more control than house
cloth as you can spin and draw it better. Everything told to you, were
lies. I would never go back there again. Find place where people know
what they are talking about and who sell quality product.



26 Jun 2005 01:47:58
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

The sales person goofed. First of all, there is a nice profit margin in
selling an upgraded cloth. They buy it for (9' table) roughly $90 and can
typically sell it for over $200 retail. The reason it might be thinner than
their standard garbage is because it is worsted and will take a very long
time to wear...much longer than what is standard with the table...which is
why the cloth they offer is so thick! Worsted wool is tightly woven and
very durable. On a home table, you may not have to recover the table for
several years. The cloth is also flatter than the standard combed wool they
offered you, which is a good thing for accuraccy.

Deno



"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> When I purchased my very first table last week I asked about the upgraded
> Simonis cloth. The sales person asked me why I wanted it, and I said
> "because it's what the pros play on". She told me that Simonis is thinner
> and that is why the balls are faster, which is why the pros use it, but a
> thinner cloth wears faster. I haven't played in about 10 years and only
> ever played in a pool hall so know nothing about cloth and asked the sales
> person if such a novice as myself would notice a difference and she said
> probably not, and that if I did notice a difference it would be less
control
> with the Simonis over the Mali. Did the sales person do the right thing
> talking me out of the more
> expensive cloth (for the reasons specified), or do they just get a larger
> profit margin on it?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Eddie G
>
>




25 Jun 2005 18:55:45
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

ah so, deno right, if they had sold customer Gorina 2000, he would now
be happy camper instead of customer who knows he was hosed. They all
do this, every where and its all about pushing off on the customer a
cloth they buy for $30 they sell for $150. They only care about them,
not the customer, or what he wants.



25 Jun 2005 19:05:50
Dhakala
Re: cloth question

But, Deno, if Eddie starts out with Simonis he'll have no cloth to
blame for his shooting. :-) OTOH, in a couple of years he'll get better
and be able to tell himself, "Now I *deserve* Simonis!"

The guy already bought the Mali. I'm just trying to make him feel good
about it.



25 Jun 2005 22:15:17
Eddie G
Re: cloth question


"Dhakala" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> But, Deno, if Eddie starts out with Simonis he'll have no cloth to
> blame for his shooting. :-) OTOH, in a couple of years he'll get better
> and be able to tell himself, "Now I *deserve* Simonis!"
>
> The guy already bought the Mali. I'm just trying to make him feel good
> about it.

I ordered the table just last week. I'm sure it's not too late to have the
cloth changed. As for the shooting, I know it's not the cloth...it's the
Earth's rotation and the moon's gravity all in sync with the space-time
continuum. If it would just stop, the ball would go where I want it.




25 Jun 2005 19:38:41
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Wait till you get the price to change out and upgrade the cloth, this
is where the giant hose job occurs. Grab yo ankles.



25 Jun 2005 22:59:04
Eddie G
Re: cloth question

I already asked and they said $250!!! Yikes!! I'm thinking of a nice way
to get them to give me the REAL price difference. I figure the price
difference should be around $80??

Should I get Simonis 760 or 860?

"Bong Soon" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Wait till you get the price to change out and upgrade the cloth, this
> is where the giant hose job occurs. Grab yo ankles.
>




26 Jun 2005 03:08:43
Jim
Re: cloth question

I don't have any affiliation with the company below, I just have their cloth
on my table. It is faster than Simonis and is touted to last longer too.
Give it a looksee.

http://www.champbilliards.com/product_details_fabrics.asp?prod_id=1

Jim
"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I already asked and they said $250!!! Yikes!! I'm thinking of a nice way
>to get them to give me the REAL price difference. I figure the price
>difference should be around $80??
>
> Should I get Simonis 760 or 860?
>
> "Bong Soon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Wait till you get the price to change out and upgrade the cloth, this
>> is where the giant hose job occurs. Grab yo ankles.
>>
>
>




25 Jun 2005 20:45:19
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

liars liars pants on fires. Chinese crap imported by people in Chicago.
The only thing it does faster is wear out faster. You've been conned
too.
Bong soon needs to wise up you chumps being taken for a hay ride.



26 Jun 2005 05:42:42
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

Eddie,

Tell them that you will have the cloth at home when they deliver the table.
You should get 860 or Granito Basalt (the only two high quality
worsteds...only sales people will try to convince you otherwise) on your own
and you shouldn't have to pay more than $160 for a 9' table. If you can't
find a piece for that price, email me and I will hook you up.

Deno

"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I already asked and they said $250!!! Yikes!! I'm thinking of a nice way
> to get them to give me the REAL price difference. I figure the price
> difference should be around $80??
>
> Should I get Simonis 760 or 860?
>
> "Bong Soon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Wait till you get the price to change out and upgrade the cloth, this
> > is where the giant hose job occurs. Grab yo ankles.
> >
>
>




26 Jun 2005 05:43:17
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

Everyone knows that you are supposed to blame it on the cue!!! Where have
you been?
Deno


"Dhakala" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> But, Deno, if Eddie starts out with Simonis he'll have no cloth to
> blame for his shooting. :-) OTOH, in a couple of years he'll get better
> and be able to tell himself, "Now I *deserve* Simonis!"
>
> The guy already bought the Mali. I'm just trying to make him feel good
> about it.
>




26 Jun 2005 05:54:54
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

I forgot if I mentioned this already...

You are looking for quality in a cloth...not something that is advertised as
long-lasting. Those cloth choices are for pool room owners who do high
volume with customers who wouldn't know the difference between playing on
silk or the carpet. Granito Basalt (made by Gorina) or Simonis 860 are more
durable than anything on the market. Granito and Simonis are not advertised
as long lasting, but rather for superior playability. In a pool room doing
high volume (tables going 4-6 hours a day, every day), these will last six
months for a room that keeps their equipment in top shape...a year for
average shape...and two years for below average shape. In the home, these
cloths are good for several years...five...ten...depends on how much you
play. The nice thing is that the more you play, the more you are going to
want to play on the finest cloth. The less you play means the cloth will
last forever. Don't make the mistake of buying a grossly inferior product
for just a few dollars less. The cloth is such a huge part of the game that
you don't want to go cheap on it because the game will not be as enjoyable
as it could be.

Deno




25 Jun 2005 23:33:24
Fast Larry
Re: cloth question

Call bong soon, I sell it for $150, verily cheap prices, run deno out
of business.



25 Jun 2005 23:35:39
Fast Larry
Re: cloth question

an so deno, you on roll, you need watch this being over exposure, this
happen to kenny rodgers, he never recover.



26 Jun 2005 08:00:52
Mark0
Re: cloth question


"Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I forgot if I mentioned this already...
>
> You are looking for quality in a cloth...not something that is advertised
as
> long-lasting. Those cloth choices are for pool room owners who do high
> volume with customers who wouldn't know the difference between playing on
> silk or the carpet. Granito Basalt (made by Gorina) or Simonis 860 are
more
> durable than anything on the market. Granito and Simonis are not
advertised
> as long lasting, but rather for superior playability. In a pool room
doing
> high volume (tables going 4-6 hours a day, every day), these will last six
> months for a room that keeps their equipment in top shape...a year for
> average shape...and two years for below average shape. In the home, these
> cloths are good for several years...five...ten...depends on how much you
> play. The nice thing is that the more you play, the more you are going to
> want to play on the finest cloth. The less you play means the cloth will
> last forever. Don't make the mistake of buying a grossly inferior product
> for just a few dollars less. The cloth is such a huge part of the game
that
> you don't want to go cheap on it because the game will not be as enjoyable
> as it could be.
>
> Deno
>
>

Although I responded in an earlier thread regarding wear, and want to add my
2 cents here.

I have immense respect for Deno's knowledge of pool/billiard cloth (he was
the N American distributor for Gorina for several years IIRC). That said,
I was involved in the sale of hundreds of tables (at one time in my life)
and my experience is that combed cloth (ala Mali -- which is what we sold as
standard cloth) wears about 10 years in most home environments. (This is
based on when we saw previous customers coming in to ask for recovering
services). We also operated a pool room and got 1-2 years of play out of
Mali on those tables. When Rick Garrison opened up Sneaky Pete's I helped
him cover those tables with 860. After 2 years they were ready to be
recovered too. My home table was covered in Mali originally and now has
been covered by Granito for about 3 years. I estimate that the wear level
on this cloth is comparable to 3 years worth of wear on Mali.

Based on my personal experience, I think there's a reason Simonis and Gorina
aren't pushing "wear" in their advertizing.

As for playability, in both my personal and professional experience, worsted
is hand's-down the winner for consistent play.

Mark0

Author: Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm


===




26 Jun 2005 13:26:29
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

I hear what you are saying. The question that begs to be asked though is
why is longevity is such a concern when quality that will last several years
is readily available?. When someone buys a table they are investing
thousands of dollars on the table, more on the cues...more on probably
finishing the room where it is going, etc. The cloth on the table is the
single most important variable that an owner has much control over. It only
costs a few hundred dollars to have the table recovered when it is needed.
So in the home environment, if you can have the best cloth made and only
recover every 3 to 5 years, it seems like a no brainer. It's sort of like
having a Ferrari and not installing top of the line tires on it. Without
the performance, what's the point of it all?

Although Mali will technically last longer, it will do so with gullying
(deep ball tracks) down the rails. It is also less durable against masse
and elevated cue shots gone bad. I totally dig what you are saying, and
from a business perspective the numbers look good with a Mali-type cloth.
However, from a playability perspective, there is nothing like Granito or
Simonis...and that playability can be had for just slightly more money,
which makes it a huge upgrade for little money.

Deno




"Mark0" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > I forgot if I mentioned this already...
> >
> > You are looking for quality in a cloth...not something that is
advertised
> as
> > long-lasting. Those cloth choices are for pool room owners who do high
> > volume with customers who wouldn't know the difference between playing
on
> > silk or the carpet. Granito Basalt (made by Gorina) or Simonis 860 are
> more
> > durable than anything on the market. Granito and Simonis are not
> advertised
> > as long lasting, but rather for superior playability. In a pool room
> doing
> > high volume (tables going 4-6 hours a day, every day), these will last
six
> > months for a room that keeps their equipment in top shape...a year for
> > average shape...and two years for below average shape. In the home,
these
> > cloths are good for several years...five...ten...depends on how much you
> > play. The nice thing is that the more you play, the more you are going
to
> > want to play on the finest cloth. The less you play means the cloth
will
> > last forever. Don't make the mistake of buying a grossly inferior
product
> > for just a few dollars less. The cloth is such a huge part of the game
> that
> > you don't want to go cheap on it because the game will not be as
enjoyable
> > as it could be.
> >
> > Deno
> >
> >
>
> Although I responded in an earlier thread regarding wear, and want to add
my
> 2 cents here.
>
> I have immense respect for Deno's knowledge of pool/billiard cloth (he was
> the N American distributor for Gorina for several years IIRC). That said,
> I was involved in the sale of hundreds of tables (at one time in my life)
> and my experience is that combed cloth (ala Mali -- which is what we sold
as
> standard cloth) wears about 10 years in most home environments. (This is
> based on when we saw previous customers coming in to ask for recovering
> services). We also operated a pool room and got 1-2 years of play out of
> Mali on those tables. When Rick Garrison opened up Sneaky Pete's I helped
> him cover those tables with 860. After 2 years they were ready to be
> recovered too. My home table was covered in Mali originally and now has
> been covered by Granito for about 3 years. I estimate that the wear level
> on this cloth is comparable to 3 years worth of wear on Mali.
>
> Based on my personal experience, I think there's a reason Simonis and
Gorina
> aren't pushing "wear" in their advertizing.
>
> As for playability, in both my personal and professional experience,
worsted
> is hand's-down the winner for consistent play.
>
> Mark0
>
> Author: Secrets to a Perfect Pool Table Recovering Job
> www.mccauleyweb.com/secrets.htm
>
>
> ===
>
>




26 Jun 2005 11:32:55
Eddie G
Re: cloth question


"Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Eddie,
>
> Tell them that you will have the cloth at home when they deliver the
> table.
> You should get 860 or Granito Basalt (the only two high quality
> worsteds...only sales people will try to convince you otherwise) on your
> own
> and you shouldn't have to pay more than $160 for a 9' table. If you can't
> find a piece for that price, email me and I will hook you up.

When I tell them I will have my own cloth, how much should they take off of
the table price for the Mali?

Thanks so much (to you and everyone).

Eddie




26 Jun 2005 08:40:09
Billy Bob
Re: cloth question

Get Simonis 860 at least once so you will learn the difference in cloth
quality. (The go play on other tables with different cloth and compair. Ask
what kind of cloth they have.)


"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
> When I purchased my very first table last week I asked about the upgraded
> Simonis cloth. The sales person asked me why I wanted it, and I said
> "because it's what the pros play on". She told me that Simonis is
thinner
> and that is why the balls are faster, which is why the pros use it, but a
> thinner cloth wears faster. I haven't played in about 10 years and only
> ever played in a pool hall so know nothing about cloth and asked the
sales
> person if such a novice as myself would notice a difference and she said
> probably not, and that if I did notice a difference it would be less
control
> with the Simonis over the Mali. Did the sales person do the right thing
> talking me out of the more
> expensive cloth (for the reasons specified), or do they just get a larger
> profit margin on it?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Eddie G
>
>




26 Jun 2005 18:09:06
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

Not much if anything at all because it costs them around $15 for the cloth.
I wouldn't even ask for anything off just to avoid the drama.
Deno

"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Eddie,
> >
> > Tell them that you will have the cloth at home when they deliver the
> > table.
> > You should get 860 or Granito Basalt (the only two high quality
> > worsteds...only sales people will try to convince you otherwise) on your
> > own
> > and you shouldn't have to pay more than $160 for a 9' table. If you
can't
> > find a piece for that price, email me and I will hook you up.
>
> When I tell them I will have my own cloth, how much should they take off
of
> the table price for the Mali?
>
> Thanks so much (to you and everyone).
>
> Eddie
>
>




26 Jun 2005 11:20:37
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Simonis, cloth of champions, for over 3 centuries, Bong Soon only play
on Simonis 760 or Granita 2000, both same, wonderful. Every thing
else, just cheap imitations selling for less.
Ah So: Confuscious say, buy good pair of pants, keep you warm for
years. Buy cheap imitation, ass soon getting breeze.



26 Jun 2005 11:53:53
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Since so many bozos no nothing about cloth and are being taken to
cleaners by your lack of knowledge and information, FL has article on
his web site, www.fastlarrypool.com
I went in and copied it for you to read.
Ah So: read and learn. Confuscious say, and educated consumer, never
buys the lowest price product to save money. He always buy good shit,
never bad shit. Only dumb shits do this. End of quote.;

CLOTH 6 pages 3-20-03 Cr, Fast Larry Guninger all rights reserved.
Bpn, czm, upp, rsb, ppt, btt.
Every thing you need to know about cloth is in this article.
There are two basic cloths, house cloth, which is cheap & course like a
rug, and Simonis, which is thin & slick, like your suit coat. It is
not called felt. House cloth is woven, the long & the short fibers are
twisted, which causes them to break & separate and when the short fiber
begins to stick up, this is called pilling.
Those little balls of fur that drive you nuts. The cheaper the cloth,
the worse it balls up, so if you do go cheap & choose house cloth, then
try & buy the best you can find. If you have an installer putting it
in, you need to question him on what he is using, or you can pay for
the best, and what is installed can be the worst.
Mali & Forstmann are two mfgrs that have been around for a while. Ask
them what their stitch per inch is, the higher the number, the better.
Ask them what is the weight, the less the weight, the thinner and the
more it will wear out, l8 oz is bad, 2l oz is standard, 22oz is great.
This is the weight of the cloth for a 36" yard of cloth. Most
products will be 75% wool, 25% nylon, is the wool content falls below
75%; quality goes down with that number also. The proper way to
determine a cloths weight is to take a square yard or meter of it, then
weight it. 760 simonis weights 360 grams, you just convert that number
into oz's, and 860 is 420 grams. The problem is, liars figure, and
figures can lie, so people can & do cheat on these numbers. The way
they can make their numbers better is vary the width from 6l" to
63", by one yard long.
The only reason your pool hall puts on house cloth, which pills, and
these pills do deflect balls, is money, it will cost 2 to 3 times less
than Simonis, but Simonis will hold it play performance & wear, 3 times
longer, so it's a false economy. It's like buying a $20 pair of
shoes, they look good, feel good for a week, then they fall apart fast,
it is the same with cloth.
There are look a like cloths being sold as it looks like Simonis, plays
like it, nobody can tell it isn't, and it's much cheaper.
Any cloth, when it is brand new, plays pretty good & fast, for the
first week or two, then the cheaper weaves, slow down badly, and the
performance goes south, and they wear out faster, so again, you really
don't save anything, it's once more, just a sales gambit, an
illusion.
These Simonis copies are now being made in Mexico, as are some of the
house cloths now being used. These Mexican house cloths, which are
like rugs, are fine to cover a donkeys butt, but I would not put them
on my pool table.
Simonis is worsted cloth, the very finest. Worsted means you control
the direction of the warp & the welt by twisting together only the long
threads, which produces no pilling, and a very smooth flat surface.
860 is going to be 90% wool & l0% nylon, high wear, and 760 is 80% wool
& 20% Nylon, less wear, but faster. Simonis has the highest thread
count per inch of any cloth, #860 is 129 and #760 is 110. When you
install it, the smooth side with the logo or name is the side you play
on and that is always up.
There are 3 kinds of Simonis:
#300 International high-speed carom 3-cushion Billiard cloth. It
is very thin, you can't jump over a quarter, it wears well, but does
not hold up well under Artistic play & abuse and it is very fast. You
can't play pool on it; you can't shut down the roll of the cue
ball. It has extra fine threads to produce the high-speed play
required by Billiards. In the 70's in Europe this was #800 blend.
The faster #300 was introduced for the 300 anniversary of Simonis in
1980. Prior till then the carom cloths were called #1, then #2, then
#3 which was in play during the 70's. When they moved to the 300 is
was totally superior to what was being used in the past and much
faster.
#760 Standard blend. It has combed worsted wool and high thread
count to assure long lasting wear, it is the fastest pool cloth you can
get. It is recommended for pocket pool games or for American Snooker,
English Snooker prefers a slower and more wooly cloth. Simonois sells
that also.
760 is the preferred cloth in the NE, and among l4.l straight pool
players, and in the new Artistic sport. It has a smooth even surface,
it will never pill or fluff up and the ball will roll absolutely smooth
and true. In many countries such as Germany, it is the main cloth.
World wide, 760 is used 3 to l over 860. In the USA 860 are used 4 to
1 over 760.
All I play on is 760, and when I do a show, if the room will put on a
new cloth, I will give them a brand new 760 cloth, so I can have a fast
cloth to perform my world class Masses and stroke shots. There are
many shots that cannot be made on the slower house cloth, but are easy
on 760. The 760 allows you to draw table length with ease, and you can
put more spin on the cue ball.
I like the standard green color, or blue green, or electric blue. That
is all I use. The Gold or Camel are so nice on the eyes, Mosconi loved
these colors. A lot of home tables are sold with the Burgundy or Wine,
which are beautiful. I like to stay away from the dark colors, like
Marine Blue, Spruce, Black, or even red, some of the object balls
don't show up well on them, but others like them, it's like colors
on your auto, different strokes, for different folks.
#860 Tournament blends. This was developed especially for 9 ball,
it has a high wool content which provides maximum ball control, and is
a little slower than 760.
This cloth was tested with the PBT 9 ball pros to find a cloth they
wanted, not too fast, not too slow, and one they could jump on. The
thicker 860, out jumps the thinner 760, and wears longer in a
commercial room. At the turn of the 20th century up to the modern era
the simonis numbers used were #1 #2 #3, which all played about the
same speed, similar to 760 today and faster than 860. They were being
used for caroms and pool.
The 2nd source of worsted cloth is the Granito cloth from Spain. It
has light sales around the world and in the USA. The price is about
the same, and both cloths, Granito & Simonis are very close in speed &
quality. The #2000 is the same as 760; the Basalt is the same as #860,
the Billiard M, is the same as #300.
Some people think the Granito runs a tad faster than Simonis, it is
really too close to call. Granito does not do a final shave, which
produces a wave in their cloth Simonis does not have, so the ball does
not run as level & true, and when it picks up that wave in the fabric
at the end of a roll, players see a little extra creep in the ball, and
some tail off, neither of which are good.
To clean your Simonis, just brush it. Do buy a nice horsehair bed
brush, and a strong narrow thin brush to go under the rails. Take an
old small hand towel, and wet it so it does not drip, but is damp, and
now wipe the cloth, which will pick up a lot of chalk dust you will see
on the cloth. Water will not hurt the cloth, but the damp wipe, will
slow the speed down. Usually after a little play, the rolling balls
will press the fibers back down and the speed will return. Because my
dogs also prefer Simonis, I get dog hair & have a need to get it off
fast, so you will see me vacuum.
If you do, never use a floor model, or one with a lot of HP & power, it
could pull some fibers loose. A simple hand vac will do, now brush,
and wipe. If I have the time, I sometimes use a clothes iron, to press
it down as a last & 4th step.
The heat from the iron, quickly removes the moisture, and that is also
why I have heated my slate in my studio table. For most of you, just
brush, then damp wipe with a towel, is all you need to do.
If you have a bar box, and play in the leagues, then by all means put
on 860 now. At the Allen Hopkins Expo, for the first time, there bar
box competition was on 860 Simonis, as is all upper level APA events
now. Practicing at home on 860, means when you hit your city
championship, you will have the speed and actions of those tables now
mastered, which will give you a Hugh advantage.
Simonis is known as the cloth of champions, and of Wonder Dog. They
have been making cloth, since l680, so in 323 years; they have had a
lot of time to figure it out.
Granita makes bolts of cloth for suit companies, they just take their
suit cloth & dye it green, and pool cloth is a small sideline to them.
Simonis is the only worsted company who is totally devoted to only
making cloth for the pool, snooker & billiard world.
Once the table is up & leveled, all of the performance & fun is going
to come from the cloth, so why in the world, would you half than fun &
performance, by putting on a cheap cloth that will make playing the
game hard to do. They use only the finest virgin wool, made from
worsted yarn, and it is the final shearing, that only they do that
removes random fibers that produce the finest surface.
More record runs have been made on Simonis cloth than on any other
surface. All of the big runs & records in this country, of Mosconi,
Crane, Caras, Greenleaf, Hoppe were done on Simonis. It is free of any
nap, so it won't shed, or form pills and gullies, you see on house
cloth. With no nap to break down, you get a consistent speed and
perfect English & rebound off of the cushions, so you are always in
control.
It will cost 2 to 3 times more, but it lasts 3 times longer, and
resists those ball burn marks much better. Just insist on it, except
nothing less than it period.
When you put a woven house cloth fiber under a microscope, it is fuzzy
with fibers sticking out all over it, waiting to break loose & pill up.
The Worsted fiber is 10 times smaller, and flat & smooth all around.
Simonis is the official cloth of the professional billiards tour, the
Euro tour, the European pocket billiard federation, the world pool
billiard association, and ESPN challenge of champions, Steve Mizerak
senior tour and the Women's professional classic billiard tour.
At the turn of the last century, and through the golden age of pool,
Simonis was the primary cloth used in the USA, during the 20's,
30's, 40's, and then WWII, shut down the mill in Verviers, Belgium.
After the war, nobody made any move here, to import it, so all cloth
used during what I call the slow period, the late 40's, 50's 60's
& 70's, was American house cloth.
In 1981, Hank Hayes left Brunswick, and formed his company Dufferin and
begins to bring it in once more. During the golden ages, they used
Simonis #1, the #2, then #3, all of these blends played at the same
speeds, which were about equal to 760 today.
In 1981, 760 was introduced, was a little faster than the old cloth,
and totally superior to the house cloth being used here at that time,
it was an over night success. In the mid 80's, the players moving to
9 ball, wanted a little slower cloth, they could control the ball
better on, and the jump craze had started, so a thicker cloth, would
jump better. 860 were born, and that became the preferred cloth for 9
ball play.
Simonis can be bought from a table dealer or installer, or from some
pool halls, in just about any decent sized town in America. If you
want to acquire it from us, then go to our Products section and
contract us for your needs.
Come chat with me live at www.poolchat.net which used to be called
www.billiards-pool.net THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL "Fast Larry"
Guninger offers clinics and video taped lessons. Web site
www.fastlarrypool.com POOL LESSONS FROM A GRAND MASTER LEVEL
INSTRUCTOR, BILLIARDS EXPERT AND FORMER ARTISTIC WORLD CHAMPION.
770-381-6609. Larry plays on four pro 9 ball tours. His tour cards
are: the UPA, the men's main tour; the Florida 9 ball tour, SE pro 9
ball tour and the Senior Tour.
Fax 770-381-1916 POOL QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND FREE INSTRUCTION IS ON
www.poolchat.net In the ask the pros forum."Fast Larry" Guninger
and Wonder Dog, trick shot shows and entertainment.
Email [email protected] fast larry at bell south dot net.
DVD's.http://www.fastlarrypool.com/dvdseries_trickshots1_trailer.htm
May God bless and peace be with you. May there now be peace between
us. If you are a real pool player, then fast truly loves you. May
the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall.
VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. " Latin for "I came, I saw, I
conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can
believe it, or not. If you don't believe it, C'est La Vie. "
Shoot straight, innovate, never give up, just run out on the other guy
then there is no way for you to lose.
Either lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way. Do one of the
three please. Come celebrate the wonder of this beautiful game with me
and become a student of it.
Be my friend, walk my way, flow with what I teach you and you will soar
like the Eagle into levels of excellence you never dreamed possible.
"Winners make things happen. Losers let things happen." In the words
of Vince Lombardi, "When it comes to the future, there are three kinds
of people: those who let it happen, those who make it happen, and those
who wonder what happened."
Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. Ride em hard, put em up wet,
leave the ladies smiling. Live free, die well with your boots on owing
no man nothing. May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows
you're dead. In time, it's all dust in the wind anyway. Don't
take your self, or anything too serious, just be happy and healthy.
Laughter good whiskey and song is the best medicine. Be sure to take
the time, to smell the flowers along the way. Aristole said "
Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end
of human existence." Die happy and you lived a good life.



26 Jun 2005 20:30:36
Eddie G
Re: cloth question


"Billy Bob" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Get Simonis 860 at least once so you will learn the difference in cloth
> quality. (The go play on other tables with different cloth and compair.
> Ask
> what kind of cloth they have.)

After reading that article from Fast Larry's site I think I should get the
760, which is "recommended for pocket pool games". The 860 "was developed
especially for 9 ball".

Eddie




26 Jun 2005 20:52:42
Mark0
Re: cloth question

Where do I get this $15 dollar Mali? I want a truckload.

Mark0 <--paid $60 in 1989 for 8' bed and rails


===
"Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Not much if anything at all because it costs them around $15 for the
cloth.
> I wouldn't even ask for anything off just to avoid the drama.
> Deno
>
> "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> >
> > "Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > > Eddie,
> > >
> > > Tell them that you will have the cloth at home when they deliver the
> > > table.
> > > You should get 860 or Granito Basalt (the only two high quality
> > > worsteds...only sales people will try to convince you otherwise) on
your
> > > own
> > > and you shouldn't have to pay more than $160 for a 9' table. If you
> can't
> > > find a piece for that price, email me and I will hook you up.
> >
> > When I tell them I will have my own cloth, how much should they take off
> of
> > the table price for the Mali?
> >
> > Thanks so much (to you and everyone).
> >
> > Eddie
> >
> >
>
>




26 Jun 2005 20:53:58
Mark0
Re: cloth question

Suit yourself. I'd recommend Granito Basalt. It'll play plenty fast enough
and wear better to boot.

Mark0


===
"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Billy Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Get Simonis 860 at least once so you will learn the difference in cloth
> > quality. (The go play on other tables with different cloth and compair.
> > Ask
> > what kind of cloth they have.)
>
> After reading that article from Fast Larry's site I think I should get the
> 760, which is "recommended for pocket pool games". The 860 "was developed
> especially for 9 ball".
>
> Eddie
>
>




26 Jun 2005 21:08:27
Eddie G
Re: cloth question


"Mark0" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Suit yourself. I'd recommend Granito Basalt. It'll play plenty fast
> enough
> and wear better to boot.
>
> Mark0

Is that because it is in between the 760 and 860 for wool/nylon ratio?

As someone who is very new to the sport, would I even notice a difference
between the 760 and 860?




26 Jun 2005 18:51:26
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Granito basalt is exactly the same speed as 860
Granito 2000 is exactly the same speed as 760

Granito M is exactly the same speed as 300

760 is faster than 860, which even tends after 3 or 4 weeks slow more
than the 760 does.



27 Jun 2005 04:17:17
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

I was in the wholesale business. By the bolt, 9' tables of combed wool
don't cost more than $15-$30 to a distributor or a retailer who does any
sort of respectable volume. What I quoted was the cost of the cloth to the
retailer, not to the end user.

Deno


"Mark0" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Where do I get this $15 dollar Mali? I want a truckload.
>
> Mark0 <--paid $60 in 1989 for 8' bed and rails
>
>
> ===
> "Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Not much if anything at all because it costs them around $15 for the
> cloth.
> > I wouldn't even ask for anything off just to avoid the drama.
> > Deno
> >
> > "Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]
> > >
> > > "Deno J. Andrews" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]
> > > > Eddie,
> > > >
> > > > Tell them that you will have the cloth at home when they deliver the
> > > > table.
> > > > You should get 860 or Granito Basalt (the only two high quality
> > > > worsteds...only sales people will try to convince you otherwise) on
> your
> > > > own
> > > > and you shouldn't have to pay more than $160 for a 9' table. If you
> > can't
> > > > find a piece for that price, email me and I will hook you up.
> > >
> > > When I tell them I will have my own cloth, how much should they take
off
> > of
> > > the table price for the Mali?
> > >
> > > Thanks so much (to you and everyone).
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>




26 Jun 2005 22:25:03
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

oooooaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Deno, quoting our cost, can get
both of yo fookin thumbs broke........

Ah so: Confuscious say: Ferry should think before he open mouth and
put shoe in it.
Now I know, why you no longer in wholesale business.



27 Jun 2005 13:18:27
Deno J. Andrews
Re: cloth question

"Bong Soon" <[email protected] > wrote in message > Now I know, why
you no longer in wholesale business.

yes grasshopper, there is even better margin in biopharmaceuticals...





27 Jun 2005 12:11:40
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Ah so, ferry leave pool business to become drug pusher, I see. You
might try Cocaine, its mark up is 2700 percent, if you can live to
spend it. You can sell diamonds against jews, mark up is 10 to 1, buy
diamond 100, sell to bozos for grand. This is why so few jews in pool,
jews are smart, go where money is, no money in pool. Come to think of
it, yo nose pretty big???
Ah So, confuscious say, smart man, buy low, sell high, fook bozos. Code
is simple, never wise up a chump or give bozo an even break.



27 Jun 2005 12:16:28
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

I go into Grand Masters web site, look around, find two more extensive
articles on cloth FL write. Here is one of them for bozos to read.
Master only allows those worthy to go into encylopedia of pool where he
has stored 300 articles on the game. Every possible question you could
have is answered. RSB bozos blocked out of it, not worthy. For entry,
you must ask, pretty please with sugar on it and kiss his ass and ring,
but its worth it.

CLEANING POOL EQUIPMENT. HOW TO CLEAN CLOTH, CUES AND BALLS. 8
Pages.

4-25-04 REV II, 6-27-05, CR, Fast Larry Guninger all rights reserved.
Published in DC, BPN, CZM, UPP, PPT, FLP, RSB, BTT.

Terms, rubber bumpers are cushions. It is not felt, it is cloth.

There seems to be this obsession in pool players to want and go out and
spend money on cleaners. You tell them they do not need to do that and
they look at you funny, like you have been out in the sun too long. If
you are dying to blow your money on junk you do not need then do so.
Read no further. If you want to save some money read on. Put on your
skull caps and get ready to save some dough.

FERRULE: Learn how to chalk correctly, use only a new piece and chalk
lightly on the edges and your ferrule never gets a chalk mark on it and
remains clean, same on your hands. Don't use chalk with deep craters
in them and grind down in the pit. To clean hands, h2o and soap in the
pool hall rest room, cost, zip. If you work in a pool hall please wash
your hands after taking a dump and making my hamburger. When you pick
up my hot dog with your fingers and slap it on the bun I want to know I
am not getting anything extra with it.

I went in a joint the other day and ordered soup and when the waitress
delivered it I said, there's a bug swimming around in it. She just
smiled and said as she walked off, that's on the house, we don't
charge extra for the bugs. I said you are missing a golden opportunity
here. In Mexico they would add two extra pesos to the bill. 10 if the
bug was still alive. You pay extra for worms in your booze down there
as they come in the bottles that way.

If you want to keep your cue straight, never lean it on a wall, always
stand it up right in or against a chair so no pressure is on the tip,
ferrule or shaft. Here is what John Roberts said about this in 1905.
"I will, I think, be generally admitted, even by novices, that
billiards cannot be played with a crooked cue, and yet how many persons
thoughtlessly stand a cue leaning against the wall after using it. The
best cue ever made would not keep true under this usage, and the
inferior cues so much used in public billiard rooms will stand very
little of it. Place them in the cue rack at night which insures their
being in the best position for keeping them straight. If you do not
have a rack, lay the cue out flat on your home table when you finish
play.

TABLE: Clean your cloth with a wash cloth, small hand towel, water,
cost, zippo. Get the towel semi wet and wipe down the table. You want
it just dripping a little. After working half of the table, add more
water and flip the cloth over. This does not harm the cloth and will
dry in just a few minutes. Just do not over soak the cloth and get
carried away using too much water. Wipe inside the pockets and along
the rail edges. You will not believe how much crud you will pick up
and it's all chalk dust down in the cloth where you can't see it.
On every hit, the chalk you put on your tip explodes off into the air
and trickles down into the cloth. After a few weeks this becomes a lot
of dirt. Most people when I show them this water clean they freak out
and can not believe it's true. Hello McFly, I am a distributor for
cloth and my data comes right from the factory, so you are getting
expert advice here.

I wipe my cloth down with a wet small towel several times a week. If
you spill a beer on a cloth, mop it up, then soak the area will a wet
towel and move it around. It will dry later without a ring. You
can't hurt the slate, its stone. Simonis cloth is the same material
as your business suit. When you get caught out in the rail and it's
soaked, does this do any damage to it? No, it dries, business as
usual. Same thing on your pool table.
Note your wash cloth is trashed; it is picking up all of that chalk
dust which is basically dirt in a wrap. That dirt slows down the rolls
and wears off the finish of the balls and later makes them smaller.
Water will not harm simonis or most house cloths. You can soak the
cloth with no damage as long as the water does not get under the wood
rails. Do not be afraid to clean your cloth with a wet towel. Water
slows down the speed of the cloth for a few minutes until the rolling
balls press the fibers back down flat so they are no longer raised and
standing up. That may take an hour or more, then the cloth returns to
its old speed and you will see better English because of fewer slides.

Just soak the cloth and then squeeze out the excess water and when it
is not dripping but a little, that's about right to begin cleaning.
Daily every table in a pool hall should be brushed, vacuumed and then
water cloth wiped down and the cloth then ironed, if it is a top joint
before it opens for business. I dare you to find me one place that now
does this. If it is a class joint they should carry the balls to your
table and brush it down before you play. After every rental session a
brush down should occur. Every set of balls should be wiped clean with
a dry towel when they come back to the desk after each rental.
Owners, put those desk men to work. Now they are just sitting on their
butts ragging my ass on these chat forums when your back is turned.

IRON THE CLOTH. Here is another one that freaks people out. I carry
an Iron, like my wife uses to iron my shirts with me on the road. When
I wipe down a cloth with water, it will dry in 5 or 10 minutes, but I
have left a lot of moisture in the cloth. I run the hot iron up and
down and it dries the cloth out, smoothes back down the raised fibers
and the cloth is then fast and good to go for me to shoot, do another
show or film. When Rick Wright, a fellow TASA world trick shot
champion taught me this in 95, I thought he was nuts and it would
damage the cloth. No it does not as long as you keep the iron moving
and don't leave it in one spot to go answer the phone. Iron the
cloth, like you iron your shirt and nothing bad will occur.

If you live in area's of a lot of humidity, the South, or in area's
that are moist a lot, like England or Seattle, you can not keep the
moisture out of your cloth. If it's raining out side, your cloth is
going to slow down. Bring out the iron before you play or practice.
This is why 3-C billiard tables have heated slates, they want the cloth
super fast and the heat dries out the moisture in the cloth. Yes, my
slate in my studio is heated on my gold crown, and I still iron the
cloth to speed up the process and lay down the fibers for a faster roll
of the ball. Here is a confirmation of this from the greatest player
of his time, John Roberts of England. He wrote this advice in his book
called the game of billiards and how to play it, 1905. The cloth he
was using a century ago is very similar to what we now use today. Same
on the tables little has changed. The writing style in England a
century ago is different as is the spelling of some words.

"Page 17, take care of table and cues, the care bestowed on the table
and cues has a great effect on play. A table which is in constant use
should be brushed after every set of players have finished, and ironed
once a day. If only used for an occasional game-as for instance, a
table in a private house-it will be sufficient to iron it at intervals
of three or four days in dry weather; but ironing should be resorted to
every day the table is to be used if the weather be wet, as billiard
cloth, especially the cheaper qualities absorbs moisture rapidly, and a
damp cloth makes a slow table.
The iron should not be taken all round the table under the cushion, as
is done by many markers, but should be placed on the table close to the
center of cushion no 1 the length of the iron being parallel to the
cushion, but not allowed to remain stationary. The iron should then be
taken up the table, slowly or quickly according to the heat of the
iron, to the same position under no 4 cushion, and then carried back to
cushion no 1, and the process repeated until the whole bed has been
ironed in swathes the width of the iron's length. On no account
should the cloth be ironed the other way-i.e. from spot to baulk, as
this would be against the nap, if the cloth be properly put on.

In brushing, the brush should be used both with and against the nap.
After brushing, a cloth should be wrapped round the brush and worked
the way of the nap-i.e. from cushion no 12 to cushion no 4 to smooth it
down.

In the winter-time solid rubber cushions require great care, if the
table is to be kept decently playable. Even the best of these cushions
harden under the influence of cold, and the only sure way of keeping
them in first-class order is to maintain a temperature of about sixty
degrees in the billiard-room day and night. End of quote. I find the
temperature I am most comfortable at is 69 degrees and studies have
concluded the brain thinks best at temperatures at 69 to 72 degrees, if
it gets hot, the brain begins to think fuzzy. Most pool halls are way
too warm.

MY RUBBER BUMPERS HAVE GONE DEAD.
OK, YOUR CUSHIONS, now have no rebound and you can't make a bank to
save your soul. Most lessons I give in homes I find they have never
tightened the 18 rail bolts under the rails. I find many so loose they
are ready to fall out on the floor. I find the same thing in many pool
halls, where I see 3 or 4 bolts missing which fell out, were swept up
and never replaced. The constant pounding of the balls against the
cushions loosens these bolts. You want them very tight. You need to
check and tighten each bolt every 90 days. Your pool table requires
regular maintenance just like your car needs its oil changed now and
then. Go under the rail on your back with a ratchet wrench with a long
extension, it's usually a 9/16" or l/2" socket, snug them all
down tight. If most are loose, you will see the banks immediately
improve.

You go under and they are all tight and your rails are still dead.
That means you need new rubber. This is going to be expensive,
probably around $500. Rubber is cheap; labor to put it on is not. Do
not attempt this on your own, this takes great skill and experience.
Because of this there is usually just one old guy in every town that
does it all. Every one else just takes your rails and farms the job
out to him and puts in a mark up for their trouble. Find him, save the
mark up. Buy the best rubber you can get. I sell a very in expensive
Unalyn that holds up long term well. Most of the rubber profiles used
today is K-66.
There are some like me, who only want the best and I use K-55 German
Artemis intercontinental which is going to be around $200 up.
In some really cheap Chinese import tables sold into the home market,
they cheat on the rubber using low quality and adding fillers. In 3 to
6 months, the rails just die on you. You will also find you got
screwed on many other things about the table like =BE instead of 1"
slate and mostly particle board instead of all solid wood underneath
the table. If that is the case, I would unload this turkey and buy a
real table with quality workmanship. Admit your mistake and move on.

MY NEW CLOTH WAS FAST BUT IT'S NOW SLOWED DOWN, WHAT CAN I DO.
Follow the cloth cleaning methods, if that does not work then you
bought cheap cloth and there is nothing you can do, it just keeps
getting slower and slower as you go along and usually little pill balls
will begin to appear.
Even top quality simonis slows after a month goes by. When it does you
need to remove the rails and staples and repull the cloth much tighter.
It's a lot of work beyond most home owners so if you want it fast
again, pay for somebody to come in and do this for you.
You can ask the first installer to pull it as tight as possible and
watch and be sure he does do this and never allow him to glue the cloth
on. Really cheap tables can only be glued. What I do is pull the bed
cloth as tight as possible on my home table then let it stand for 24
hrs. I then come back, remove the staples and repull it tighter and
then put the table back together. Cloth will stretch, and then pull
back on you. If you can move the cloth around on the slate with your
finger, it's too loose. In 1905, they would put large weights on the
4 corners and on the two sides and let it hang to stretch the cloth.
They would come back from lunch and then repull the cloth using special
pliers to get and hold a maximum grip and to apply maximum pulling
force. Workmanship and pride in a job done well is rare to find today.
It's not how well can we do the job, its how fast can we slop it up
and get out and on to the next job. The more they get by with this,
the more they do this.

Sadly most table installers unless they are a real pro, are lazy and in
hurry and they do a slam bam thank you ma'am the job and they are out
the door. It's not always their fault, during holiday rush periods
when most tables are sold they have these poor guys out doing more jobs
a day than can be possibly performed correctly and the only way they
can keep pace is to cut corners on you. Stand over them; insist they
do the job right. Go under the table and check to see if every rail
bolt has been installed. If the slate was not drilled correctly or
does not line up with the rail, they will leave the bolt out on you.
Insist they redrill it and do it right. Watch every move they make.
Insist they fill the cracks of the slates with a hard substance like
Bondo or thing like it. If they don't have it, send them up to Pep
Boy's to buy a can. They use bee's wax because it's cheaper and
faster but the wax can melt and vanish and in 6 months to a year, balls
are then bumping on the slate joints.

CUE SHAFT: Cleaner, wash cloth, slightly damp, wipe shaft down every
time after play, then dry with a separate towel. Once shaft dries out
which is only seconds, then buff with magic polishing papers, the
yellow is 1000 grit and takes off almost no wood and restores the shaft
to a very slick feel. I use the pink papers which are 8000 grit and
they remove zero wood.

CUE GRIP: Irish linen wrap. Once a month, wash with a hand cloth,
semi wet with soft hand soap out of squirt bottle, rub wrap, and then
rinse wrap with wet cloth to remove soap, then dry wrap with towel.
Note towel is trashed with hand oils and dirt off of wrap picked up
from the table. Water does not hurt Irish linen which is essentially
fish line.

BALLS: Never clean or polish or put in polishing machine or wax any
of your 1 through 15 object balls. Dirty balls throw best. I will run
my cue ball in there. Get those squeaky clean and they play weird.
Same if you wax them. Leave them alone, do nothing. I would never use
brand new balls right out of a box. In my TASA world trick shot
championships that I ran for 5 years during the late 90's. I would
only put out balls that had been played with for a few months and had
been broken in and had the factory slick off and some dirt on them.
Tommy Kennedy does the same thing on his SE 9 ball tour, same on the
Florida tour and the UPA men's main 9 ball tour which I play on.

All you have to do to clean balls and wipe them down one by one for a
few seconds with a dry towel and save the $600 ball cleaning machine
and buying barrels of cleaning goo which is a silly expense you do not
need. There were no ball cleaning machines a few decades ago, this was
invented to solve a problem that does not exist. It is a total waste
of money, labor and time.
Those machines eventually fall apart or wear out and the padding under
the balls rips loose and when it does it wipes out and destroys the
balls being polished as the pad is ground into the surface of the
balls.
It's happened to me twice in places that had those machines. We went
2 centuries with out ever using ball polishing machines and this cue
maker con man hustler comes along recently and convinces us a few years
ago we now need them. They are nothing but a giant rip off. Totally
UN necessary. It does not make the play of the balls better; you are
spending money to make the play worse. If you have one now, sell it on
Ebay, some turkey will take this loser off your hands.

I only clean an obvious dirt spot off and only that spot and not the
entire ball. Cleaning object balls with Windex would be an example of
what not to do. The cue ball you can use ball polisher and cleaner
on, wax it and hop it up for it to be hot. McGuire's wax from pep
boys is good. Some like a hard white carnauba wax which dries hard and
has to be hand polished. When I get my cue ball hot, it will not hold
chalk impact marks which are good.

SAUSAGES, MARKS AND CHUMPS: How to clean them out. If you should be
giving the 7 and the snap, ask for and receive the 7 and the snap.
Become a locksmith. Only bet your own loot when you have the chump
locked up in a Hungarian mortal lock of which there is no way for him
to escape from. Whey you are playing on OPM, bet the sky if they will
cover your action, what do you have to lose. Get on a roll, play fast
and loose and go for it. If you lose, leave town fast.

Getting your clock cleaned. Just begin giving every body in the joint
a spot and begin thinking you are better than you really are.

Cleaning your get away car. I just squirt a shot of dish soap in a
bucket, fill with hot water and go at the car with a sponge and garden
hose. I get my car wash for the get away Caddy for under a dollar.
You would think I came from Scotland but I am actually half Irish and
half Austrian.
You will say what about the cost of the water for your deluxe car wash.
I have 6 huge rain barrels on 4 corners of my house and a pond in the
back yard it all drains into. Every time it rains they keep filling
up. They are 3' square and 5' tall. When I wash the car or water
my plants I drop a sump pump in the barrel, hook up the hose and the
cost of the water is free, thank you God. I live on an acre and my
place is like a jungle or botanical garden. I have lived here for over
20 years and have been planting gardens and flowers for decades.
During a drought I may have to water for hours to water my thousands of
plants and the cost of the water was getting expensive which is why I
dug the pond which is 6' deep and 30 x 30'. Finally I have free
water year round. Soon, there will be wars over water and you will not
be allowed to water out side at all, this is coming. I am just ahead
of the curve.

Cleaning Wonder Dog. When he begins to smell like a Jamaican goat I
put him in the tub of water after my bath saving filling the tub again
and squirt on a light amount of good dog medicated shampoo to avoid
allergies and wash and rinse him. I then apply my hair conditioner
and let that soak in, rinse him and blow dry. I then apply Avon skin
so soft to his coat which gives it some oil. I like a greasy dog.
Yeah Yeah, I'm a greaser too. Cost of dog grooming, under a dollar.
WD gets a bath every Sunday.

Cost of cleaners, zero. H2o. Towels come from the Riviera Casino
during your league visit, cost, Zero. I know, it's all too simple
for you to handle, so go get ripped off with these expensive bottles of
snake oil. I did try to save you. There are a lot of products others
are using on the shelves of the super market in the cleaning section
but again they cost money. Yes they work but water is cheaper.

Come chat with me live at www.poolchat.net which used to be called
www.billiards-pool.net THE POWER SOURCE POOL SCHOOL "Fast Larry"
Guninger offers clinics and video taped lessons. Web site
www.fastlarrypool.com POOL LESSONS FROM A GRAND MASTER LEVEL
INSTRUCTOR, BILLIARDS EXPERT AND FORMER ARTISTIC WORLD CHAMPION.
770-381-6609. Larry plays on four pro 9 ball tours. His tour cards
are: the UPA, the men's main tour; the Florida 9 ball tour, SE pro 9
ball tour and the Senior Tour.
Fax 770-381-1916 POOL QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND FREE INSTRUCTION IS ON
www.poolchat.net In the ask the pros forum."Fast Larry" Guninger
and Wonder Dog, trick shot shows and entertainment.
Email [email protected] fast larry at bell south dot net.
DVD's.http://www.fastlarrypool.com/dvdseries_trickshots1_trailer.htm
May God bless and peace be with you. May there now be peace between
us. If you are a real pool player, then fast truly loves you. May
the wind be always on your back and all 9 balls fall.
VENI VIDI VICI, OMNIA VINCIT AMOR. " Latin for "I came, I saw, I
conquered, love conquerors all. Yes I really did do it all and you can
believe it, or not. If you don't believe it, C'est La Vie. "
Shoot straight, innovate, never give up, just run out on the other guy
then there is no way for you to lose.
Either lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way. Do one of the
three please. Come celebrate the wonder of this beautiful game with me
and become a student of it.
Be my friend, walk my way, flow with what I teach you and you will soar
like the Eagle into levels of excellence you never dreamed possible.
"Winners make things happen. Losers let things happen." In the words
of Vince Lombardi, "When it comes to the future, there are three kinds
of people: those who let it happen, those who make it happen, and those
who wonder what happened."
Rack em sausage, Go play fast and loose. Ride em hard, put em up wet,
leave the ladies smiling. Live free, die well with your boots on owing
no man nothing. May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows
you're dead. In time, it's all dust in the wind anyway. Don't
take your self, or anything too serious, just be happy and healthy.
Laughter good whiskey and song is the best medicine. Be sure to take
the time, to smell the flowers along the way. Aristole said "
Happiness is the meaning and the purpose of life, the whole aim and end
of human existence." Die happy and you lived a good life.



27 Jun 2005 20:46:40
Mark0
Re: cloth question


"Eddie G" <mickeddie(removeme)@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Mark0" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Suit yourself. I'd recommend Granito Basalt. It'll play plenty fast
> > enough
> > and wear better to boot.
> >
> > Mark0
>
> Is that because it is in between the 760 and 860 for wool/nylon ratio?
>
> As someone who is very new to the sport, would I even notice a difference
> between the 760 and 860?
>
>

Yes. And the weight of the fabric. 860 and Granito Basalt are comparable.
Most will agree that the Basalt is the better value.

Yes, if you have them near each other to compare, you will see the balls
roll for a longer time with the 760 and Tournament 2000.

Mark0


===




27 Jun 2005 19:46:58
Bong Soon
Re: cloth question

Yes, this is true. Bong Soon.