30 Oct 2006 13:27:57
Straight pool rules question

Thank you for any definitive answer to this Straight Pool rules
question by some knowledgeable 14.1 player. Below, is the portion of
the Successive Fouls Penalties paragraph (for the 14.1 game) that I
will be referring to in my question (which follows it).
-------------------------------------------------------

6.12 SUCCESSIVE FOUL PENALTIES
When a player commits a foul, penalization is one point (or more as
appropriate) and a notation is made and posted by the scorer that the
player is "on a foul." The player remains "on a foul" until the
next shot attempt, at which time the foul may be removed by
successfully pocketing a called ball, or completing a legal safety. If
failing to meet these requirements on the next turn at the table, the
player is penalized one point. The notation is changed to "on two
fouls." .........
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My question is this:

If a player is on one foul, then at his next turn at the table he
attempts to pocket a called ball and misses, but does strike a cushion
with either the called ball or the cue ball it would seem to me that he
can't be assessed a penalty of one point because he has completed a
legal stroke and hasn't fouled -- he simply missed the shot. Yet the
way the rule is worded he has only two options to avoid the
questionable penalty (and calling of a foul by the referee):

-- Pocket a called ball, or
-- Call a safety and properly execute it (object ball or cue ball to a
cushion after contact of cue ball with an object ball)

I think a third option, which arises when the shot attempt is missed,
should be included by adding a reference to it as "or completes a legal
stroke" (per rule 6.7.2) which can't be penalized one point as a foul
which in my opinion didn't occur.

I'd very much appreciate an opinion on this. It comes up in our 14.1
tournaments.

-- Carlton



30 Oct 2006 18:26:16
Roger Orsulak
Re: Straight pool rules question


<[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Thank you for any definitive answer to this Straight Pool rules
> question by some knowledgeable 14.1 player. Below, is the portion of
> the Successive Fouls Penalties paragraph (for the 14.1 game) that I
> will be referring to in my question (which follows it).
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> 6.12 SUCCESSIVE FOUL PENALTIES
> When a player commits a foul, penalization is one point (or more as
> appropriate) and a notation is made and posted by the scorer that the
> player is "on a foul." The player remains "on a foul" until the
> next shot attempt, at which time the foul may be removed by
> successfully pocketing a called ball, or completing a legal safety. If
> failing to meet these requirements on the next turn at the table, the
> player is penalized one point. The notation is changed to "on two
> fouls." .........
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> My question is this:
>
> If a player is on one foul, then at his next turn at the table he
> attempts to pocket a called ball and misses, but does strike a cushion
> with either the called ball or the cue ball it would seem to me that he
> can't be assessed a penalty of one point because he has completed a
> legal stroke and hasn't fouled -- he simply missed the shot. Yet the
> way the rule is worded he has only two options to avoid the
> questionable penalty (and calling of a foul by the referee):
>
> -- Pocket a called ball, or
> -- Call a safety and properly execute it (object ball or cue ball to a
> cushion after contact of cue ball with an object ball)
>
> I think a third option, which arises when the shot attempt is missed,
> should be included by adding a reference to it as "or completes a legal
> stroke" (per rule 6.7.2) which can't be penalized one point as a foul
> which in my opinion didn't occur.
>
> I'd very much appreciate an opinion on this. It comes up in our 14.1
> tournaments.
>
> -- Carlton
>

Completing a legal safety doesn't necessarily mean a called safety. You
just need to meet the minimum requirements for a shot - a ball has to be
pocketed (not necessarily the called ball) or either the cue ball or any
other ball has to contact a cushion after the cue ball has contacted a ball.
Roger




30 Oct 2006 18:49:55
Ron Shepard
Re: Straight pool rules question

In article <[email protected] >,
"Roger Orsulak" <[email protected] > wrote:

> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Thank you for any definitive answer to this Straight Pool rules
> > question by some knowledgeable 14.1 player. Below, is the portion of
> > the Successive Fouls Penalties paragraph (for the 14.1 game) that I
> > will be referring to in my question (which follows it).
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > 6.12 SUCCESSIVE FOUL PENALTIES
> > When a player commits a foul, penalization is one point (or more as
> > appropriate) and a notation is made and posted by the scorer that the
> > player is "on a foul." The player remains "on a foul" until the
> > next shot attempt, at which time the foul may be removed by
> > successfully pocketing a called ball, or completing a legal safety. If
> > failing to meet these requirements on the next turn at the table, the
> > player is penalized one point. The notation is changed to "on two
> > fouls." .........
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------------------
> >
> > My question is this:
> >
> > If a player is on one foul, then at his next turn at the table he
> > attempts to pocket a called ball and misses, but does strike a cushion
> > with either the called ball or the cue ball it would seem to me that he
> > can't be assessed a penalty of one point because he has completed a
> > legal stroke and hasn't fouled -- he simply missed the shot. Yet the
> > way the rule is worded he has only two options to avoid the
> > questionable penalty (and calling of a foul by the referee):
> >
> > -- Pocket a called ball, or
> > -- Call a safety and properly execute it (object ball or cue ball to a
> > cushion after contact of cue ball with an object ball)
> >
> > I think a third option, which arises when the shot attempt is missed,
> > should be included by adding a reference to it as "or completes a legal
> > stroke" (per rule 6.7.2) which can't be penalized one point as a foul
> > which in my opinion didn't occur.
> >
> > I'd very much appreciate an opinion on this. It comes up in our 14.1
> > tournaments.
> >
> > -- Carlton
> >
>
> Completing a legal safety doesn't necessarily mean a called safety. You
> just need to meet the minimum requirements for a shot - a ball has to be
> pocketed (not necessarily the called ball) or either the cue ball or any
> other ball has to contact a cushion after the cue ball has contacted a ball.
> Roger

I don't think this is correct. In Rule 6.7.4, it is clear that
calling a safety is distinct from calling an object ball.

I think the rule is not consistent with the way 14.1 is played, and
the wording of the rule should be changed.

I think this is a good catch. Most people reading that rule would
read what they think the rule says, not what it actually says.

$.02 -Ron Shepard


30 Oct 2006 22:20:54
Re: table tennis


a super place for training table tennis

http://www.hebocs.org/English/dxly/xly%20pp.asp

The detail contact information
Tel: 86 311 85877493
Fax: 86 311 85898385
Email:[email protected]
Website: www.hebocs.org
Helen



06 Nov 2006 05:33:53
Bob Jewett
Re: Straight pool rules question

Ron Shepard <[email protected] > wrote:

> I think the rule is not consistent with the way 14.1 is played,
> and the wording of the rule should be changed.

The wording is changed in the proposed WPA/BCA revision in the
Fouls section which covers all games:

If a player fouls three times without making an intervening
legal shot, it is a serious foul. In games scored by the
rack, such as nine ball, the fouls must be in a single rack.
Some games such as eight ball do not include this rule.

The referee/opponent must inform a player who is on two fouls
when he comes to the table that he is on two fouls. Otherwise
a possible third foul will be considered to be only the
second.

I suppose it is not immediately obvious what a legal shot is, but
it is defined elsewhere. A miss is a legal shot provided no foul
is committed.

--

Bob Jewett
http://www.sfbilliards.com/



05 Nov 2006 21:54:15
Dhakala
Re: Straight pool rules question


Bob Jewett wrote:

> The wording is changed in the proposed WPA/BCA revision in the
> Fouls section which covers all games:
>
> If a player fouls three times without making an intervening
> legal shot, it is a serious foul. In games scored by the
> rack, such as nine ball, the fouls must be in a single rack.
> Some games such as eight ball do not include this rule.
>
> The referee/opponent must inform a player who is on two fouls
> when he comes to the table that he is on two fouls. Otherwise
> a possible third foul will be considered to be only the
> second.

Why does every rules-making body employ as its technical writer an
Alzheimer's patient with a ouija board?

> I suppose it is not immediately obvious what a legal shot is, but
> it is defined elsewhere. A miss is a legal shot provided no foul
> is committed.

And a ball is not legally pocketed. :-)