13 Jul 2006 01:13:49
*mavs*
I dont feel Mavs have done enough

Thats my over-all opinion thus far.

Maybe if Croshere and Ager do excellent.. and maybe if Diop grows by leaps
and bounds or Shrek'. But overall they have simply traded out some
players... but you know, the Mavs are still missing a dominant big man...
That's just the bottom line.. What next? More doubling of Duncan and Shaq?

I thought the Mavs were fortunate this year to make it as far as they did
without a dominant center..

The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
championship..

Ben Wallace, Shaq, Duncan... and Ben Wallace went straight to Chicago...




12 Jul 2006 23:05:46
Dave McNulla
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

*mavs* wrote:
> Thats my over-all opinion thus far.
>
> Maybe if Croshere and Ager do excellent.. and maybe if Diop grows by leaps
> and bounds or Shrek'. But overall they have simply traded out some
> players... but you know, the Mavs are still missing a dominant big man...
> That's just the bottom line.. What next? More doubling of Duncan and Shaq?
>
> I thought the Mavs were fortunate this year to make it as far as they did
> without a dominant center..
>
> The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
> championship..
>
> Ben Wallace, Shaq, Duncan... and Ben Wallace went straight to Chicago...

i don't think that's the problem. the mavs didn't get any better on
paper. you lost kvh and daniels, you got ager and kvh. that's not a
typo, the only difference is 2nd pick vs 12th pick. their stats are
interchangable. they both are charmin, hurt all the time, and don't play D.

anyway, he's not going to be the difference on the team or even a key.
the mavs are good, they just didn't finish what the started. you have to
ask yourself, did they really get over the hump, or did they do the same
thing in a different way?

personally, i don't know if the spurs are better or worse. nazr and
rasho? neither was huge. maybe nazr a little in the 2005 playoffs, but
he's got hands of stone and never learned the defensive rotations. ewill
and boner? beats me what they will do.

dave


13 Jul 2006 06:34:02
*mavs*
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

Yes they simply traded out players if you want to look at it that way...

but at the same drop... I think a dominant center is completely
important..... no one fears dampier.. I am sad were going to have to put up
with his ass for another year.


"Dave McNulla" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> *mavs* wrote:
>> Thats my over-all opinion thus far.
>>
>> Maybe if Croshere and Ager do excellent.. and maybe if Diop grows by
>> leaps and bounds or Shrek'. But overall they have simply traded out some
>> players... but you know, the Mavs are still missing a dominant big man...
>> That's just the bottom line.. What next? More doubling of Duncan and
>> Shaq?
>>
>> I thought the Mavs were fortunate this year to make it as far as they did
>> without a dominant center..
>>
>> The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
>> championship..
>>
>> Ben Wallace, Shaq, Duncan... and Ben Wallace went straight to Chicago...
>
> i don't think that's the problem. the mavs didn't get any better on paper.
> you lost kvh and daniels, you got ager and kvh. that's not a typo, the
> only difference is 2nd pick vs 12th pick. their stats are interchangable.
> they both are charmin, hurt all the time, and don't play D.
>
> anyway, he's not going to be the difference on the team or even a key. the
> mavs are good, they just didn't finish what the started. you have to ask
> yourself, did they really get over the hump, or did they do the same thing
> in a different way?
>
> personally, i don't know if the spurs are better or worse. nazr and rasho?
> neither was huge. maybe nazr a little in the 2005 playoffs, but he's got
> hands of stone and never learned the defensive rotations. ewill and boner?
> beats me what they will do.
>
> dave




13 Jul 2006 17:42:35
Mr Black
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"* > but at the same drop... I think a dominant center is completely
> important.....

a dominant big man is like having a chmpionship, not many teams have it, and
they all want it.

MrB




13 Jul 2006 03:10:07
jW
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

they missed their window

done



"*mavs*" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Thats my over-all opinion thus far.
>
> Maybe if Croshere and Ager do excellent.. and maybe if Diop grows by leaps
> and bounds or Shrek'. But overall they have simply traded out some
> players... but you know, the Mavs are still missing a dominant big man...
> That's just the bottom line.. What next? More doubling of Duncan and Shaq?
>
> I thought the Mavs were fortunate this year to make it as far as they did
> without a dominant center..
>
> The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
> championship..
>
> Ben Wallace, Shaq, Duncan... and Ben Wallace went straight to Chicago...
>




13 Jul 2006 14:44:13
Marcus Kwan
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 06:34:02 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected] > wrote:

>Yes they simply traded out players if you want to look at it that way...
>
>but at the same drop... I think a dominant center is completely
>important..... no one fears dampier.. I am sad were going to have to put up
>with his ass for another year.
>

Damp and DIop are fine defensively. They did a pretty adequate job on
Duncan. Neither can score a lick, but the Mav offense does not move
through the low post. Ager will replace Daniels' minutes, which is to
say he will have 5 to 10 inconsequential minutes a game.

Mavs did not improve, but neither did the Spurs or Pistons, and it
remains to be seen if the Heat can hold together. Don't start
panicking just yet.

>
>"Dave McNulla" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> *mavs* wrote:
>>> Thats my over-all opinion thus far.
>>>
>>> Maybe if Croshere and Ager do excellent.. and maybe if Diop grows by
>>> leaps and bounds or Shrek'. But overall they have simply traded out some
>>> players... but you know, the Mavs are still missing a dominant big man...
>>> That's just the bottom line.. What next? More doubling of Duncan and
>>> Shaq?
>>>
>>> I thought the Mavs were fortunate this year to make it as far as they did
>>> without a dominant center..
>>>
>>> The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
>>> championship..
>>>
>>> Ben Wallace, Shaq, Duncan... and Ben Wallace went straight to Chicago...
>>
>> i don't think that's the problem. the mavs didn't get any better on paper.
>> you lost kvh and daniels, you got ager and kvh. that's not a typo, the
>> only difference is 2nd pick vs 12th pick. their stats are interchangable.
>> they both are charmin, hurt all the time, and don't play D.
>>
>> anyway, he's not going to be the difference on the team or even a key. the
>> mavs are good, they just didn't finish what the started. you have to ask
>> yourself, did they really get over the hump, or did they do the same thing
>> in a different way?
>>
>> personally, i don't know if the spurs are better or worse. nazr and rasho?
>> neither was huge. maybe nazr a little in the 2005 playoffs, but he's got
>> hands of stone and never learned the defensive rotations. ewill and boner?
>> beats me what they will do.
>>
>> dave
>



13 Jul 2006 20:35:39
*mavs*
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> Damp and DIop are fine defensively. They did a pretty adequate job on
> Duncan. Neither can score a lick, but the Mav offense does not move
> through the low post. Ager will replace Daniels' minutes, which is to
> say he will have 5 to 10 inconsequential minutes a game.
>
> Mavs did not improve, but neither did the Spurs or Pistons, and it
> remains to be seen if the Heat can hold together. Don't start
> panicking just yet.

Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...




14 Jul 2006 19:16:55
Marcus Kwan
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>
>> Damp and DIop are fine defensively. They did a pretty adequate job on
>> Duncan. Neither can score a lick, but the Mav offense does not move
>> through the low post. Ager will replace Daniels' minutes, which is to
>> say he will have 5 to 10 inconsequential minutes a game.
>>
>> Mavs did not improve, but neither did the Spurs or Pistons, and it
>> remains to be seen if the Heat can hold together. Don't start
>> panicking just yet.
>
>Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
>
why?


14 Jul 2006 20:12:09
*mavs*
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
>>
> why?

Because Stoudamire is coming back and they are in no way built as a
traditional team.




14 Jul 2006 22:24:20
Marcus Kwan
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:12:09 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
>>>
>> why?
>
>Because Stoudamire is coming back and they are in no way built as a
>traditional team.
>

And they have proven that they are the number one threat to win a
championship exactly when?


14 Jul 2006 22:59:02
*mavs*
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:12:09 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> And they have proven that they are the number one threat to win a
> championship exactly when?

I think they are going to be the threat this year. I think they are the
number one team in the west. I don't want it though. Trust me when I say I
would rather it be the Mavs first, Spurs second.. etc...




14 Jul 2006 18:10:40
John
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:12:09 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]
> >> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>>Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
> >>>
> >> why?
> >
> >Because Stoudamire is coming back and they are in no way built as a
> >traditional team.
> >
>
> And they have proven that they are the number one threat to win a
> championship exactly when?

Champions for the future are usually based on the past. No one would have
predicted the Rams or the Pats (first super bowl). What you look for is
potential and a trend. Hence the '03 Lakers and the '06 Spurs were bad bets
as their window had come and gone.




14 Jul 2006 23:21:55
Dave McNulla
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

John wrote:
> "Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:12:09 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]
>>>> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
>>>>>
>>>> why?
>>> Because Stoudamire is coming back and they are in no way built as a
>>> traditional team.
>>>
>> And they have proven that they are the number one threat to win a
>> championship exactly when?
>
> Champions for the future are usually based on the past. No one would have
> predicted the Rams or the Pats (first super bowl). What you look for is
> potential and a trend. Hence the '03 Lakers and the '06 Spurs were bad bets
> as their window had come and gone.

spurs were lucky to win 62 games, even luckier to win 63.

dave



15 Jul 2006 06:43:00
*mavs*
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"John" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> Champions for the future are usually based on the past. No one would have
> predicted the Rams or the Pats (first super bowl). What you look for is
> potential and a trend. Hence the '03 Lakers and the '06 Spurs were bad
> bets
> as their window had come and gone.


I have got to disagree that the 06 Spurs were bad bets... This team isnt too
old. Even if some of their game is figured out they are still completely
dominant. The only thing I saw is that the Spurs didnt have that want it
look and you can bet your ass they are going to fix that. The Spurs are
still a very real threat.




15 Jul 2006 06:59:50
John
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough


"*mavs*" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>
>
> I have got to disagree that the 06 Spurs were bad bets... This team isnt
too
> old. Even if some of their game is figured out they are still completely
> dominant. The only thing I saw is that the Spurs didnt have that want it
> look and you can bet your ass they are going to fix that. The Spurs are
> still a very real threat.


Stick a fork in the Spurs. Duncan has that solid but not spectacular cause
he is old look, Ginobli can be spectacular but inconsistent as is Parker.
Horry is too old and they don't have as much depth. The Spurs look like the
'91 Pistons who had been there, but were on their way down.

>
>




17 Jul 2006 13:33:05
Marcus Kwan
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 18:10:40 -0600, "John" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:12:09 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Marcus Kwan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]
>> >> On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:35:39 GMT, "*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >>>Teams are going to need to be more versatile against Phoenix...
>> >>>
>> >> why?
>> >
>> >Because Stoudamire is coming back and they are in no way built as a
>> >traditional team.
>> >
>>
>> And they have proven that they are the number one threat to win a
>> championship exactly when?
>
>Champions for the future are usually based on the past. No one would have
>predicted the Rams or the Pats (first super bowl). What you look for is
>potential and a trend. Hence the '03 Lakers and the '06 Spurs were bad bets
>as their window had come and gone.
>

OK. So what exactly in the Suns past playoff performances would you
say suggests that they are the team to beat? To be fair, they could
have a breakthrough like the Mavs almost had this year, but nothing
suggests it. They aren't changing their style, or getting more
defensive oriented. Past history suggests that it is very, very
difficult for a team that only plays offense to win in the playoffs.

I don't know where you are coming from with regards to the '06 Spurs.
They were probably the second or third best team in the league (I do
think the Mavs were better, but i do think the Spurs would have beat
the Heat-stilll the champs are, by definition, the number one team in
the league). The distance between them and the championship was not
that great. Their players are still in their prime, so I am not sure
how you conclude their window is closed.


17 Jul 2006 13:41:21
Marcus Kwan
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 06:59:50 -0600, "John" <[email protected] > wrote:

>
>"*mavs*" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]
>>
>>
>>
>> I have got to disagree that the 06 Spurs were bad bets... This team isnt
>too
>> old. Even if some of their game is figured out they are still completely
>> dominant. The only thing I saw is that the Spurs didnt have that want it
>> look and you can bet your ass they are going to fix that. The Spurs are
>> still a very real threat.
>
>
>Stick a fork in the Spurs. Duncan has that solid but not spectacular cause
>he is old look, Ginobli can be spectacular but inconsistent as is Parker.
>Horry is too old and they don't have as much depth. The Spurs look like the
>'91 Pistons who had been there, but were on their way down.
>

Duncan and Manu are right around 30. Not old by any means, though
they will not recover from injury as fast as they once did. Parker is
inconsistent. he is also 22 and has shown vast improvement every
season. The league is wide open right now, with the Heat vulnerable
(Shaq is 34 and is wearing down), the Mavs did not improve, the
Pistons got worse, the Suns still can't stop anyone in the playoffs.

Bottom line, there are no prohiobitive favorites for next year, and
there are a handful of team, Spurs included, with very good chances.
If you think the Spurs are done, you tell me who you think they can't
beat?

>>
>>
>



17 Jul 2006 17:26:54
Gary Collard
Re: I dont feel Mavs have done enough

*mavs* wrote:
>
> The facts remain.. if you dont have a good center then you dont have a
> championship..

Since the Bulls ended, that has been true. But with centers legislated out
of the game basically how much longer can that continue? Probably until
Bron-Bron gets a little more help.

--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
[email protected]
http://sarcastipundit.blogspot.com/

"I think the Republican Party has few allies more effective than
the Daily Kos." -- Newt Gingrich