29 Jan 2004 15:21:48
Jay Tegeder
Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.

What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?

Jay Tegeder
"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT


29 Jan 2004 23:51:47
Greg Fangel
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!


"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?


-18F on the North Shore at Tetteguche State Park (Minnesota) many years
ago. When you go away for a weekend, rent an expensive place and only have 1
1/2 days to ski, you go out and enjoy it. Lots of layers, vaseline or
Dermatone and protection for your lungs (headband, balaklava or neck warmer
pulled over your mouth) is important....Those boot warmers work great
too....even though you look like you have clown feet.

Greg Fangel




30 Jan 2004 01:04:38
Marsh Jones
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

Jay Tegeder wrote:
> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
>
> Jay Tegeder
> "On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
We skied Rice Creek (N side of TC Metro) this afternoon. It's tough
when you are too warm (Polarfleece lined windbreaker), and it hurts to
breathe all at the same time. Once you got back in the trees, it was
really quite pleasant. I'd guess the temps at around -8F at 3:00. The
coldest I've skied was at Giants Ridge last year - right at 0F and a 20+
wind out of the North. Coming out into the open was painful.

Marsh Jones



29 Jan 2004 20:28:51
John Forrest Tomlinson
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

On 29 Jan 2004 15:21:48 -0800, [email protected] (Jay Tegeder)
wrote:

>I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
>out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
>a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
>95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
>cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
>on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
>thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
>lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.

Last week I skied at about -14F with minimal wind.

Up top I had a polypro shirt, a powerstretch fleece vest/bodywarmer
thing, a fleece top and a think windbreaker. Thin balaclava, wool hat
and sometimes a fleece neck gator. My glasses were icing up a fair
bit, which was annoying -- fogging and then icing. And lobster mitts.

On the bottom I had polypro longjohns, then windfront polypro
longjohns, then a pair of skiing pants with a wind front. Windbriefs
under the whole thing.

Apart from my face it wasn't too bad. I used boot covers and it was
the first time I felt I needed them.

Plus lots of dermatone.

I was skating on old snow and had decent glide. Not fast, not slow,
with Fastwax white on the skis.

JT


29 Jan 2004 20:32:59
FrontRunner
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

25 below.
Estonia
Tartu Marathon Open track
It was cold, but classic skiing it was not to bad. Fortunately it was sunny
and not too much wind.

Coldest day was last year's Bear Chase.....6 below thirty to forty mph
winds...skating. Now that was tough.

The FrontRunner


"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
>
> Jay Tegeder
> "On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT




30 Jan 2004 01:46:57
George Cleveland
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

On 29 Jan 2004 15:21:48 -0800, [email protected] (Jay Tegeder) wrote:

>I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
>out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
>a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
>95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
>cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
>on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
>thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
>lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
>What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
>
>Jay Tegeder
>"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
About 20 years ago we had a stretch of below zero days. After a week or so
I was getting major cabin fever. I had to get out!
IIRC the air temp was -26F and the windchill was below -50F. The skis did
not glide much but made a sort a raspy sound as they went over the snow. In
a short time I was starting to sweat under my clothing while any exposed
skin was starting to sting and go numb. After a half hour I had had enough.
Cabin fever cured.

It was actually quite neat. I've been noticing how fast a person gets used
to cold weather. The other morning it was 6 above and I felt comfortable
wearing a heavy sweater when I went out to start my car. No wind, of
course.

g.c.
g.c.




30 Jan 2004 08:31:03
Terje Mathisen
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

Jay Tegeder wrote:

> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?

Never any colder than -36C or so. (At these temerature ranges, the scale
doesn't matter that much, since -40F == -40C)

BTW, I do agree that trying to skate at this point would have been "not
fun".

Terje


--
- <[email protected] >
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"


30 Jan 2004 00:32:31
Anders Lustig
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

"FrontRunner" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> 25 below.
> Estonia
> Tartu Marathon Open track
> It was cold, but classic skiing it was not to bad. Fortunately it was sunny
> and not too much wind.

A quick guess: it was the winter of 92 when the race itself
was cancelled?


Anders


30 Jan 2004 04:34:04
FrontRunner
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

1999 The actual race a week later was in very good conditions. The irony
of the trip is my traveling companion did not want to classic 63k in the
race so we opted for the open track so he could skate. He skated, and it
was brutal. Fortunately they shortened the open track to 47k due to poor
snow conditions, but it was still most very cold.

The FrontRunner


"Anders Lustig" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "FrontRunner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected] >...
>
> > 25 below.
> > Estonia
> > Tartu Marathon Open track
> > It was cold, but classic skiing it was not to bad. Fortunately it was
sunny
> > and not too much wind.
>
> A quick guess: it was the winter of 92 when the race itself
> was cancelled?
>
>
> Anders




30 Jan 2004 04:37:34
FrontRunner
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

I had the same experience in Marquette last week for the Nat Masters.
Wednesday, on an off day, the temp got close to 20. I was out getting
something from the car in a T shirt, when a hotel employee went by all
bundled up complaining about the cold temp. I just looked at him in
disbelief, heck it was a heat wave compared to the rest of the week.

The FrontRunner
"Remember it is a winter sport"

"George Cleveland" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected].cis.dfn.de...
> On 29 Jan 2004 15:21:48 -0800, [email protected] (Jay Tegeder) wrote:
>
> >I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> >out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> >a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> >95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> >cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> >on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> >thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> >lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
> >
> >What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
> >
> >Jay Tegeder
> >"On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT
> About 20 years ago we had a stretch of below zero days. After a week or so
> I was getting major cabin fever. I had to get out!
> IIRC the air temp was -26F and the windchill was below -50F. The skis did
> not glide much but made a sort a raspy sound as they went over the snow.
In
> a short time I was starting to sweat under my clothing while any exposed
> skin was starting to sting and go numb. After a half hour I had had
enough.
> Cabin fever cured.
>
> It was actually quite neat. I've been noticing how fast a person gets used
> to cold weather. The other morning it was 6 above and I felt comfortable
> wearing a heavy sweater when I went out to start my car. No wind, of
> course.
>
> g.c.
> g.c.
>
>




30 Jan 2004 07:07:45
John O'Connell
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

I was the Frontrunners traveling companion on this trip. It is true, I
went brain dead on my technique choice...skated rather than classic.
Took me forever to finish and I bet I classic skied about 85% of the
race on my skating skis and boots. I used some old Solda green
glide....every stride had a squeak with it.


It is -25F this morning in St. Paul/Minneapolis and I think I learned
from my mistake....I'll be doing the City Of Lakes Loppet 35K tomorrow
on my classic skis. Planning on using Solda S-30 Powder over a
Hydorcarbon HC-28 base and the trusty Rode Special Green for
kick...although I don't think wax choice will matter much...just
hoping to finish with all body parts intact.

John OC




"FrontRunner" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> 1999 The actual race a week later was in very good conditions. The irony
> of the trip is my traveling companion did not want to classic 63k in the
> race so we opted for the open track so he could skate. He skated, and it
> was brutal. Fortunately they shortened the open track to 47k due to poor
> snow conditions, but it was still most very cold.
>
> The FrontRunner
>
>
> "Anders Lustig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > "FrontRunner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> >
> > > 25 below.
> > > Estonia
> > > Tartu Marathon Open track
> > > It was cold, but classic skiing it was not to bad. Fortunately it was
> sunny
> > > and not too much wind.
> >
> > A quick guess: it was the winter of 92 when the race itself
> > was cancelled?
> >
> >
> > Anders


30 Jan 2004 17:54:14
Doug Taylor
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

Terje Mathisen <[email protected] > wrote:

>> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
>> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
>> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
>> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
>> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
>> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
>> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
>> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>>
>> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
>
>Never any colder than -36C or so. (At these temerature ranges, the scale
>doesn't matter that much, since -40F == -40C)
>
>BTW, I do agree that trying to skate at this point would have been "not
>fun".

I wonder what the temp cut off is where skating becomes fun (or
doable)? I skated at Lake Placid in January at -8F, and it was, let
us say, sticky. I skated last weekend at 0F, using the same wax
(Swix LF4) and it was sticky as well. Somewhere in the upper signal
digits I assume it's easier to get the glide right.

Meanwhile, no problem with kick on your traditional skis, eh?
--dt


30 Jan 2004 19:23:04
John Forrest Tomlinson
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:54:14 -0500, Doug Taylor
<[email protected] > wrote:

>
>I wonder what the temp cut off is where skating becomes fun (or
>doable)? I skated at Lake Placid in January at -8F, and it was, let
>us say, sticky. I skated last weekend at 0F, using the same wax
>(Swix LF4) and it was sticky as well. Somewhere in the upper signal
>digits I assume it's easier to get the glide right.

Very cold snow is certainly slow, but there isn't a simple temperature
when things low down alot. It depends on the snow. A friend of mine
skied in squeaky snow at 12F yesterday, wereas I skied on snow at -14F
last week that I think was the same speed. The snow he was on was
new, the snow I was on was old.

JT


31 Jan 2004 02:03:39
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

-23F. K70 jump at Bush Lake in Minnesota. 52 mph at the take off.
Sheesh that's cold.

-Joe



31 Jan 2004 09:38:13
Doug Taylor
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:54:14 -0500, Doug Taylor
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >I wonder what the temp cut off is where skating becomes fun (or
> >doable)? I skated at Lake Placid in January at -8F, and it was, let
> >us say, sticky. I skated last weekend at 0F, using the same wax
> >(Swix LF4) and it was sticky as well. Somewhere in the upper signal
> >digits I assume it's easier to get the glide right.
>
> Very cold snow is certainly slow, but there isn't a simple temperature
> when things low down alot. It depends on the snow. A friend of mine
> skied in squeaky snow at 12F yesterday, wereas I skied on snow at -14F
> last week that I think was the same speed. The snow he was on was
> new, the snow I was on was old.

Concerning waxing at cold temps, this was posted to my cycling club's
listserv today and I thought I would pass it on:

>>
Waxing Secrets

Making skis fast in the cold is simple, so it is a surprise to learn how few
people know how to do it. First is proper base prep, followed by waxing,
scraping, and finally, the key: brushing, brushing, and brushing.

Cold snow is slow because the snow crystals are sharp and there is very
little liquid water to lubricate them. It is very similar to skiing across
tiny pieces of broken glass. As snow ages and gets warmer, the crystals
become more rounded and the snow pack contains liquid water that serves as a
lubricant. Imagine this as skiing across microscopic marbles with some oil
on them.

So when it is cold, the abrasive snow creates two problems - friction and
durability. There are also some electrical issues, but we're going to
pretend those don't exist because I'm not smart enough to explain them.

The goal of base prep is to make the ski as flat and featureless as
possible to reduce drag against those sharp crystals. That means either
stone grinding the ski specifically for cold, or using a metal scraper to
peel the base. Use only a sharp metal scraper, and at your peril. A metal
scraper in untrained hands is quick to ruin skis. Practice on a pair of
rock skis first. Once you have a smooth base, finish by brushing with a
soft metal brush followed with a Fibertex, which combs the microscopic base
hairs down. Next, iron in several layers of cold glide wax. Any remnants of
warmer wax will slow the ski significantly, so multiple layers are needed.
The good news is this stuff is cheap. The bad news is that it is a pain to
apply.

Cold wax is very hard in order to prevent those sharp crystals from
penetrating the ski base and also to give it extra durability. In order to
achieve this hardness, the wax is made of a synthetic compound that has a
melting point approaching that of the ski base itself.

So, with a quality wax iron, carefully apply several layers of cold wax.
Mom's old clothes iron is not the best choice because it probably does not
have a precise thermometer, and will therefore fluctuate as much as 50C.
This is dangerous when you need to heat the wax within 20C of the base's
melting point.

The iron should be just hot enough to melt the wax quickly. For those who
are ignoring the advice about quality wax irons - that is probably somewhere
between permanent press and linen, when the smoke turns deep black.

Drip or grate the wax and melt it into the base, moving the iron very
quickly in multiple passes. Each pass should take no longer than 10
seconds. Test for overheating with your hand - if it is too hot to touch,
give it a rest.

The wax is melted adequately once it has a smooth appearance and there is
no evidence of the original drips. Let it cool to room temperature, but
before it gets too brittle, remove as much as possible with a sharp plastic
scraper. You may want eye protection for this step.

Now the important part: brushing. Take a soft metal brush and brush until
your arms cry for mercy. Then brush for five more minutes. The goal is to
polish the base to a glass smooth finish so nothing drags on that abrasive
snow. Be cautious with roto-brushes, as they can burn bases if used
improperly.

With skis brushed to a shiny polish, place them out in the cold for 15-30
minutes (or longer), or better yet, ski on them for 2-5km. This will
contract the pores in the ski base and squeeze out additional wax. Then,
lucky you, brush again and again and again. The more you brush, the faster
your skis will be. This can make a 30% difference in ski speed.

If you are classical skiing, you will need extra durability for your kick
wax due to the abrasive snow. Begin with a clean kick zone after you have
finished glide waxing. Rough the kick zone with 100-grit sandpaper, then
apply a thick layer of cold kick wax. Using a torch, heat gun, or iron,
melt this layer into the base and let it cool. After corking smooth, apply
and cork many thin layers of the final choice of kick wax. Absolutely do
not get any glide wax in your kick zone, when ironing or brushing, as it
will greatly reduce durability and kick. >>




31 Jan 2004 16:06:43
John Forrest Tomlinson
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:38:13 -0500, "Doug Taylor"
>Concerning waxing at cold temps, this was posted to my cycling club's
>listserv today and I thought I would pass it on:
(info snipped)
It's nice of you to pass this info on, but it's bad that it's being
circulated not crediting the author.

JT



31 Jan 2004 17:06:22
Rapid Rick
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

Cool thread.

-20F is my limit--up here in NoDak the wind blows most of the time so just
the slightest breeze makes it painful on exposed skin (which when I'm
bundled, is just my nose). Glasses & ski goggles will fog and ice after
about 50 minutes or so, that sucks. I'm thinking about getting fitted for
contacts, but then my sunglasses will fog & ice, so not sure it's worth it.
At least I can take the sunglasses off and see.

Earlier this week we set a record low at -38 ambient and wind chills a day
earlier hit -60F. Dangerous and painful.

Warmed up and snowed today, though. -6F with a light breeze--followed a
snowmobile trail over the hills and through the woods made it a lot easier
than slogging though the powder. Tomorrow out to the groomed trails for
some power PT before gorging myself watching the Superbowl!

--
Raider Rick
"Just ski, baby"

"Jay Tegeder" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I skied today with the temp at minus 12 (-12F). There was a 10mph wind
> out of the northwest which is a killer at that temp. However, I skied
> a trail system on the east side of Saint Paul that is classic only and
> 95% in the woods. I think classic is the only way to go in temps that
> cold. I haven't shaved in a month so that helped. Plus, I put vaseline
> on my face and nose. Double poly pro, windbriefs, vest, headband,
> thick hat, warm bike jersey, warm bike jacket, warm-up tights and
> lobster mitts kept me warm. The coldest I've ever skied is -17F.
>
> What's the coldest temp you've ever skied in?
>
> Jay Tegeder
> "On the podium if the right people don't show up!" JT




01 Feb 2004 00:18:45
Ron Andrews
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

In 1978 my wife and I went to Tupper Lake for the New Years weekend.
One day it was -15F with a stiff wind. This was before the days of polypro
and polar fleece. We wore cotton long underwear and many layers topped by
down jackets. We stayed in the woods and skied for less than an hour.
The only time I ever stopped skiing because I was too cold, the
temperature was 0 F but the wind chill was -50 F. I thought I could stay
down in protected valleys, but the wind was coming out of the northeast that
day and roaring down the valleys.

--
Ron Andrews
http://members.hostedscripts.com/antispam.html




31 Jan 2004 18:36:16
RonS
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

It was written by Nathan Schultz (Subaru Factory Team) and posted in the SkiPost
newsletter. http://www.dreamofit.com/schultz.htm

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 09:38:13 -0500, "Doug Taylor"
>
>>Concerning waxing at cold temps, this was posted to my cycling club's
>>listserv today and I thought I would pass it on:
>
> (info snipped)
> It's nice of you to pass this info on, but it's bad that it's being
> circulated not crediting the author.
>
> JT
>


02 Feb 2004 04:07:23
Anders Lustig
Re: Skiing at -12F Classic is the Way to Go!

"FrontRunner" <[email protected] > wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> 1999 The actual race a week later was in very good conditions. The irony
> of the trip is my traveling companion did not want to classic 63k in the
> race so we opted for the open track so he could skate. He skated, and it
> was brutal. Fortunately they shortened the open track to 47k due to poor
> snow conditions, but it was still most very cold.

You dont have to tell me -25 is very cold, F (-31C) or C:-)

Yes, in 1999 we had one of those freak weather conditions:
extremly cold one week, barely below freezing point the next -
or -50C in Lapland, 0C in Helsinki and -20 or more in Central
Europe, with the Gulf of Finland "marking" the waeather front.

(The winter 1992 was one of the five no-good, warm and "snow-
poor" ones...)


Anders (who did ask himself whether this wasnt a race run
near Tartu, U.S.A.)