25 Feb 2007 03:08:16
Tony S.
Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.




25 Feb 2007 03:20:12
Tony S.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

2/19 am run 0:40 easy, dreadmill, with 2x5 mins mod/hard
pm run 0:43 easy/mod, 350' roads
2/20 pm run 1:31 easy/mod, 1350' clausland mtn, 1/2 trails
2/21 pm run 0:44 easy, 350' roads
2/22 off, unplanned day of chaos
2/23 am run 1:10 easy, 400' roads
pm run 1:02 easy/mod, 650' roads
2/24 pm run 2:15 moderate, 71%, 1550' roads
2/25 off

8:05 running, 46:55 ytd, 75% more than last year

This week was ok, though doing nearly all my running on roads the last 2
weeks has taken it's toll. My body (and mind) aren't used to that. Today's
run was illustrative in that my HR was low, but the effort felt somewhat
hard. I guess that's tired legs coming off 2+ hours running yesterday, a bit
high for me at this point the day prior to my 'long' run.

Luckily in a way, next week will be extremely busy, and it will work well to
take another rest week, so I'll scale back to 3-4 hours next week, then jump
right back in to 8:30, 9, 9:30... well that's the plan anyway.

-Tony

Goals:
lose weight to 156 (currently low 170s), build volume to 10+ hrs/wk
sub 20 5k Spring, sub 4 hr escarp trail July, sub 72 10 miler Fall

'07 summary
wk run
1 3:02
2 5:48
3 6:05
4 6:43
5 2:08
6 7:15
7 7:49
8 8:05




25 Feb 2007 06:45:35
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon - 0
Tues - 6
Wed - 7
Thur - 6
Friday - 0
Saturday - 23 5000ft. ?
Thruway toll $3.20
Gas - $10.00
2 E-gels, 2 E-fuels and an optimium bar - $8.00
Lunch at Bread Alone with DF and friends - priceless!

Sunday - Probably 0

42 total

Races: 3/24 Hat Run 50k - no time goal just enjoy it and finish
Goals: Lose enough fat to dip below 180 before race day
Stay healthy





25 Feb 2007 06:16:41
Christos Dimitrakakis
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 25, 4:08 am, "Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon - Strength training
Tue - 2miles jog at walking pace [painful shins]
Wed - Cross-training [yoga]
Thu - Strength training, easy bike
Fri - Cross-training [MTB, 6km, 300m]
Sat - Strength training, easy bike
Sun - rest

Goals: Visit doc, rest, wait, work on upper body, biking, swimming if
running impossible. (And I was just going to try for the 400m climb)



25 Feb 2007 17:44:44
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Goals :
- PB marathon, as near to 15km/h as possible, 15 April
- to that end, toe the line weighing <=70 kilos (currently 73.5)
- test races : HM 11th March, 10k 25th March

Time km mi HR%
Mon 0:56 10 6 70 Easy roads 5'23/k 8'40/mi. 12C

Tue 1:13 14 9 73 52' [email protected]% 5'18/k 8'32/k. 13' down. 12C
6x200m in 39-37"/40" jog recovery

Wed 1:30 18 11 79 32' up 71% 5'03k 8'07/mi, drills. 17'dwn 11C
8x800m/400 in 2'57-2'54/2'15-2'25

Thu 1:03 12 7 69 Easy roads 5'11/k 8'20/mi. 12C

Fri 0:00 Planned rest.

Sat 1:25 19 12 81 22' up 70% 5'14/k 8'25/mi, 8' down. 10C
55' accelerating to 3'42/k 5'57/mi

Sun 2:26 30 19 79 Local lake x 3 at 75-80% 4'50/k 7'47/mi. 12C
_________________
8:33 104k 65mi

Week 5 of 12 week schedule - on holiday, bliss :-)
Another good week, maybe due to sleeping til near noon every day.

Deviations from schedule were
- Tue: an extra 200 and all recoveries halved
- Sat: extra 5' in acceleration phase
- Sun: extra 45' on long run

Faster paces are pretty much what I'd expect, given the extra 3.5 kilos -
ie slightly slow by about 5" per km. Probable marathon time on current
form would be around 2'53.

Weight is showing first signs of drifting downwards though :-)


25 Feb 2007 12:35:14
joe positive
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:08:16 GMT, "Tony S." <[email protected] >
wrote:

>Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

goals: recover completely from this damned foot. upcoming races:
nothing set in stone except a 10K in late April - I'm on a triathlon
relay team and we're all registered and everything. I'm counting on
being in ok shape by then.

M: 4mi (8:20)
T: 6.86mi walk/run (9:11). 1min walk/6min run for 63 minutes. foot
didn't hurt at all!
W: 5mi (8:42), which led me to try...
R: 6mi (7:56), last 3 miles 7:13, 6:52, 7:03. Didn't hurt while I was
doing it, but...
F: 4.03mi (10:25) walk/run (1min/5min)
Sa: 8mi (8:24)
Su: 12mi (8:12)

total: 45.9 miles

The foot continues to get better, but I need to watch I don't
overstress it like I did Thursday. Those 3 little
not-even-all-that-fast miles set me back a couple of days.

good week all

Karen



live! vicariously!


25 Feb 2007 09:58:42
Tom B.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 24, 10:08 pm, "Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Mon/Wed/Thu/Fri - bike to work (7hr30 total)
Tue - run, 21.4 mi hills (~2000 ft climb), 2:27:xx
Sat - rest
Sun - run, 10.2 mi, hard tempo, 1:02:xx

A mixed week. After bailing on my key/peak long run last weekend due
to pre-injury pain, it felt OK enough to try on Tuesday. Good news:
didn't aggravate the injury. Bad news: probably ran too soon after
last Sat's x-training "substitute long run". My legs were absolutely
trashed for the nest 2-3 days, almost like after a race-effort
marathon.

So tried to recover with active rest by riding to work REALLY slow the
next couple of days, although insanely windy conditions seemed to
conspire against me.

Then, made a last-minute decision to rest on Sat, and run Sunday's 10
mile club challenge anyway -- planned to start at tempo pace and see
how things shook out. That is, IF the race wasn't cancelled due to a
predicted ice storm set to begin right around race start time. Got up
early to check the web, race still on, goofed around for a while,
packed my race bag, made one final check and the race was now
cancelled about 90 min before the start.

So... I was ready to run, and the snow/ice hadn't hit, so I decided to
do a sort of time trial on one of my neighborhood courses that's
around 10 miles. Not quite race intensity without the crowds and
adrenaline, but I worked it pretty good. The end result is that I
finally feel confident enough about the marathon on Mar 24 to write
the check and send in the entry form today. It's on!

goals:
- Mar 24 - Ellerbe Springs marathon (unless something goes way wrong)
- Apr 15 - Clyde's 10k (hopefully)



25 Feb 2007 12:51:53
Frank Boettcher
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:08:16 GMT, "Tony S." <[email protected] >
wrote:

>Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>



19 6.2
20 7.5
21 2
22 7
23 2
24 2
25 2

weekly total 28.7
ytd total 233.8


Not so hot. Went up on the roof Wed. and cleaned the gutters, felt a
twinge, went out and ran seven anyway, by that night doubled over with
a bulged disc.

The series of two's that followed are slow shuffles on flat asphalt
not on my usual trails. Decided to not push my luck, ski trip coming
up, don't have trip insurance, need it to be well healed.

Frank ( who is mostly better at this point)


25 Feb 2007 15:05:16
tfactor
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Runs: 6
Miles: 49.3
Long: 10.2
Time: 8:13

More nondescript base-building.


25 Feb 2007 12:54:15
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Tony S. wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

(w=walk, l=lope, j=jog)

sun 4 mile W (11:53) probably my proudest athletic achievement in a year..
& 3 mile W easy

tues 8 mile W (13:50) this took forever! i miss running :(

weds 2 mile J

thurs 2 mile J am
4 mile L and 1 mile W pm

sat 7 mile J (10:17)

16 miles walking
4 miles loping
11 miles jogging
-------
31 miles total

knee is stilllllll sore, sticking to a schedule like this until it is
not, heh..

h




25 Feb 2007 14:21:08
Black Metal Martha
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 24, 7:08 pm, "Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.


A good week, though due to unforseen financial difficulties, I skipped
the 5k wanted to run today.

Mon: did not run
Tues: 2.5 miles, hill work
Wed: did not run
Thurs: 4.0 miles easy, AM, 2/5 mid tempo run, PM (the first time I did
two runs in one day and felt really good, even with the rain pouring
during both times of day with a hailstorm during the evening run)
Fri: did not run - My 48th Birthday!!! :)
Sat: 3.0 miles, easy
Sun: 9.0 miles

Total for week: 21 miles
Total for 2007: 145 miles

Goals: continue losing weight, have 11 more pounds to goal
run the Sac. Int'l marathon Dec. 2



25 Feb 2007 22:42:20
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
|

I wasn't quite sure initially, but decided during mid week to test
my knee recovery by running a local 10 mile race, Jones Town & Country.

To kill a few minutes at the start line, started talking to a guy next to
me.
He said he ran this race a few times in distant past.
I told this was the first for me. He gave me a few cues about the course,
that sounded pretty much all hills to me. So, I asked what was his best
time.
He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he said,
he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge with
unbroken course record of 48+ min and won Mt. Washington road race 7 times.

As per my race, my bad knee was ok on flat or down hills,
but could only generate power on 'good' leg for up hills and
rough surfaces (which were too many).
Finished in unspectacular time, just under 1:35.

Mon: rest
Tue: 3
Wed: 3.5
Thu: rest
Fri: 6.5
Sat: 3
Sun: 10 mile race + 2 warm up & cool down
Total: 28




25 Feb 2007 11:18:58
jobs
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Tony S. wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
>
>

M - 7 miles bike
T - 7 miles bike
W - 3.5 miles
T - AM - 3.5 miles, PM - 5.5 miles
F - 7 miles bike
S - -
S - not decided yet.

easy week - 12.5 miles + 21 miles bike.

Looks like I'll be running a 10K on the March 18th weekend. Just a
diagnostic race to figure out the internal state-of-affairs. Still
planning to run a 1/2 marathon sometime in late spring. That will be my
first 1/2M. Just need to pick one.

jobs

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



26 Feb 2007 01:52:05
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] wrote:

> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and
> goals.

Day Mi Type HR climb Other
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mon 0.00 rest --- --- ---
Tue 8.02 rec 77% 840 ---
Wed 9.02 vo2 81% 1,308 5x1200m @ 5k pace; jog 2 min between
Thu 12.01 ml 76% 2,089 ---
Fri 8.07 ga 72% 1,033 weights
Sat 5.00 rec 73% 826 ---
Sun 21.26 long 79% 3,080 Pendejo hills http://tinyurl.com/2mf6gb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Week 63.38
Year 445.08

Week 20 of 24-week marathon training program, week 4 of 5-week race
preparation phase. 5x1200m Intervals on the road Wednesday were tough.
Playing all sorts of mental games to get through it. Sunday's long run
felt like crap. 63 miles for the week is as high as it's going to get for
this training plan. Next week is ~57 miles, then the 3-week taper.

3/03/07 10K tuneup race
3/25/07 ING Georgia Marathon

Have a great week rec.runners!

--
Phil M.


26 Feb 2007 02:01:15
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] wrote:

> sun 4 mile W (11:53)

That's a fast walk. When I was injured and could only walk, anything under
15:00 felt difficult without breaking into a jog.

--
Phil M.


26 Feb 2007 02:13:36
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] wrote:

> He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he said,
> he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge
> with unbroken course record of 48+ min and won Mt. Washington road
> race 7 times.

Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).

--
Phil M.


25 Feb 2007 18:43:15
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

58.00 respiratorily infected toward the end miles, as

Mo AM: 4.50 easy
PM: 4.15 easy; temp 20F

Tu AM: 11.00 quick edge of easy; 45F - shorts!
PM: 4.15 easy

We AM: 10.15 with 10x40-45" hard + one 3' hill 5k effort; with the
warmer weather I'd hoped to run 200m repeats on my local
track, but it was thoroughly flooded. Aimed for similar
workout on the roads, uphill where practical.
PM: 4.45 recovery

Th AM: 7.50 with 3.35 @ tempo
PM: 5.95 recovery; last of six conscutive runs in shorts

Fr AM: 6.15 easy; winter is back for the moment

Sa --- Bailed on 4M race because Friday's cold (throat, sinus)
kept getting worse, and then insomnia struck. One or
the other, maybe I'd still race, but not with both.

Su --- Cold still hanging on; what the hell, another day off
won't kill me.


year to date: 626 miles


upcoming
--------
11 Mar: 4M or 15k
1 Apr: 10k (Scotland Run)
14 Apr: Brooklyn 21k



25 Feb 2007 18:55:09
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Phil M. wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>
>>sun 4 mile W (11:53)
>
>
> That's a fast walk. When I was injured and could only walk, anything under
> 15:00 felt difficult without breaking into a jog.
>

thanks :) i was happy with myself after i was done with it (hopefully
the garmin wasn't too far off..)

walking fast is hard for me because if i don't constantly pay attention
to trying to walk as fast as possible, i instantly slack off to 15/16
min/mile, so it's kinda like:

"walkwalkwalk, check pace on garmin, walkwalk, check pace- oops, i
slowed down! walkfastfastFASTER, check pace." (repeat for 48 minutes..)

i don't know if it will help me at all in the long run, but i like to
play little games like that sometimes when i'm sidelined.

when and how were you injured? do you think walking helps at all? i
mean, i know it helps me to keep from gaining weight, but did you feel
like it helped you to retain some running fitness?

h


25 Feb 2007 19:24:01
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

I2Run wrote:
> To kill a few minutes at the start line, started talking to a guy
> next to me. [...] Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge


Hodgie-San, awesome!

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Default.htm


> As per my race, my bad knee was ok on flat or down hills,
> but could only generate power on 'good' leg for up hills and
> rough surfaces (which were too many).
> Finished in unspectacular time, just under 1:35.

Good job hangin' in there and giving it what you had. How's the knee
now?



26 Feb 2007 03:32:16
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] wrote:

> Hodgie-San, awesome!
>
> http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Default.htm

Alberto Salazar?

http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/HighSchool/images/salazar.jpg

--
Phil M.


25 Feb 2007 19:45:58
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Phil wrote:
> Alberto Salazar?
>
> http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/HighSchool/images/salazar.jpg

Nice one!

I'm guessing this wasn't the award ceremony from his Comrades win?



26 Feb 2007 11:35:40
Anthony
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


Goals: Run injury free and build a mileage base.

Mon: 8k grass easy
Tue: Track session. 2 k warmup
2x 400, 2 x 600, 2x 800, 2x 1000.
First time for a long time that I'd run
some fastish intervals. ITB played up
the next day so,
Wed-Thu: off
Fri: National cross-coutry championships.
I ran the ~10K grass course in 40:16
35 overall out of 80, and 5/13 AG (45-49)
My 15 yo daughter finished 16/60 in her event (2.4k)
Sat-Sun: no running, ITB is fine, but hamstring
playing up...

Total: 32km (20 miles)

Won't be entering races, until I've cleared up the
hamstring, ITB issues. Will also try and avoid
the faster interval workouts, and concentrate on
gradually building mileage with mostly slower,
easy runs.

Anthony. Jerusalem, Israel.




26 Feb 2007 13:45:13
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Phil M." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| [email protected] wrote:
| Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).
|
| --
| Phil M.

I agree, it was worthwhile just for meeting him.




26 Feb 2007 13:47:54
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| I2Run wrote:
| > To kill a few minutes at the start line, started talking to a guy
| > next to me. [...] Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge
|
|
| Hodgie-San, awesome!
|
| http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Default.htm
|
|
| > As per my race, my bad knee was ok on flat or down hills,
| > but could only generate power on 'good' leg for up hills and
| > rough surfaces (which were too many).
| > Finished in unspectacular time, just under 1:35.
|
| Good job hangin' in there and giving it what you had. How's the knee
| now?
|
Thanks CP. It is holding pretty well, just as well as it was before the
'race'.
I hope it to be a lot better by next month's Georgia HM.




26 Feb 2007 14:41:19
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"h squared" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| when and how were you injured? do you think walking helps at all? i
| mean, i know it helps me to keep from gaining weight, but did you feel
| like it helped you to retain some running fitness?
|
| h

I too would like to know your experience.




26 Feb 2007 07:49:42
shinypenny
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 24, 10:08 pm, "Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote:
> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Don't have the details handy, but I ran three times last week while on
vacation: 2 miles, 1.7 miles, 2.5 miles (my "long" run for the week).

The 2 mile run was the best one for the week: after a day of traveling
on a plane, either my body was glad to be able to move, or it was the
airplane dinner that consisted solely of free potato chips that gave
me an extra carb boost... who knows? :-)

The 1.7 mile run was the suckiest run of the week - but that was after
a day spent hiking, and my quads and hamstrings were totally fried.
Weather was quite pleasant and perfect for running, however, I found
that I missed my hills. Running on endlessly flat ground is, well,
kind of boring.

I really want to run today, after three days without, but I've
returned to snow, which is covering up ice that apparently never
melted while I was away. :-(

jen




25 Feb 2007 18:49:14
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Phil M." <[email protected] > wrote

> Wed 9.02 vo2 81% 1,308 5x1200m @ 5k pace; jog 2 min between

> Week 20 of 24-week marathon training program, week 4 of 5-week race
> preparation phase. 5x1200m Intervals on the road Wednesday were tough.
> Playing all sorts of mental games to get through it.

You know before I read the above paragraph, what went through my head on
reading about Wednesday was: "Egad, 6k in long intervals at 5k pace, what a
masochist!". I found that kind of thing easier to do with 400m or 200m. I
could do 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace, but that was my limit.

> Sunday's long run felt like crap.

Whenever the long run feels like crap, I slow it way down. In my
experience, the pace of the long run is the least important aspect of a
marathon training week, if something has to be sacrificed for equilibrium.

> 3/03/07 10K tuneup race
> 3/25/07 ING Georgia Marathon

Will you do a mini-taper for the 10k? 10k's always gave me confidence in my
marathon pacing plans...

Care to divulge your hopes for the marathon?

Good luck,

Dan



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



25 Feb 2007 18:51:23
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Phil M." <[email protected] > wrote

>> He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he said,
>> he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge
>> with unbroken course record of 48+ min and won Mt. Washington road
>> race 7 times.
>
> Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).

I wonder how old he is now and how he did at the race??



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



25 Feb 2007 18:34:04
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Trying to find the right mix of workout intensities to enable me to hold on
to my mileage while racing on Saturday. Toying with the idea of trying for
4:00 ish in an easy trail 50k. (Lake Hodges 50k in San Diego).

Mon: 7 easy, flat streets, ~9:00/mile
Tue: 12 1 warmup, then 11 w/2000' climb in 1:28. (8:00/mile)
Wed: 7 easy, flat streets, ~9:00/mile.
Thu: 12 10 with 2350' up/1550' down in 1:32, jog 2 @ 10:00/mile.
Fri: 6 easy, flat streets, ~9:00/mile.
Sat: 8.5 5mi up/down, 3.46 race in 21:27 (6:12/mi, 5k split: 19:14 80.1
wava?).
Sun: 18 3000' climb to 4800' (to the foot of San Gabriel Pk.). Very easy.

Total: 68.5 miles, 8650' climb

Felt good on my two mountain runs on Tuesday and Thursday, and at a somewhat
dubious Saturday 5k. Took today very easy, hoping that I will be able to
run well next week...

Saturday I went to a "5k" (note air quotes) race put on by the LA Kings
hockey team. Was hoping again to break 20 minutes. I felt like my normal
self this week finally, and was quick off the line for a change.

No mile markers, just a clock at the finish. 50 F and sunny at the start.
Good
headwind for a mile of it, 40' of climb/descent. I drafted someone for a
couple of minutes, then took the lead to return the favor, but he fell back.
As usual, I was breathing twice as hard as anyone alongside me, including
the two guys in the first mile chatting insufferably about the fast times
they ran recently. Fortunately, they fell back and I could run in silence
the rest of the way.

After 15 minutes I found myself alone about 20 seconds back of the first
woman, and 15 seconds ahead of any pursuers, so just cruised into the finish
without any kick histrionics. Got a limited edition commemorative puck for
finishing near the front [insert joke here]. Snagged 16th oa out of
several hundred.

When I saw the time, 21:27, almost 2 minutes off my goal, I was like, oh
well, at least I got a hard effort in. At the finish I talked with some
guys who ran it with GPS's, and their average reading was 3.46 miles. The
15 minute guys ran 17 and change. So let's cart out the asterisks, shall
we:

** If the distance was 3.46, and if I'm allowed to use 55.33 as my age, then
I finally cracked the mythical 80% wava barrier for the first time since
'84, and with less mileage -- I was running 90+ then, and weighed 8 lbs less
to boot. This is very curious to me. But I'll have to run a certified
course before I break out the champagne.









--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



25 Feb 2007 18:38:36
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"joe positive" <[email protected] > wrote

> M: 4mi (8:20)
> T: 6.86mi walk/run (9:11). 1min walk/6min run for 63 minutes. foot
> didn't hurt at all!
> W: 5mi (8:42), which led me to try...
> R: 6mi (7:56), last 3 miles 7:13, 6:52, 7:03. Didn't hurt while I was
> doing it, but...
> F: 4.03mi (10:25) walk/run (1min/5min)
> Sa: 8mi (8:24)
> Su: 12mi (8:12)
>
> total: 45.9 miles
>
> The foot continues to get better, but I need to watch I don't
> overstress it like I did Thursday. Those 3 little
> not-even-all-that-fast miles set me back a couple of days.

Well done. I would have done almost as well!

It's rough when there's a delayed reaction as on R-day.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



26 Feb 2007 08:38:04
Daniel
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Recovering (as I'm sure you're tired of hearing but which I keep
mentioning in the interest of science) from fracture of left fibula
on October 8, 2006.

Mon Walk 1 hour
Tue Run with walk breaks 45 minutes (1)
Wed 45 minutes run in place on mini-trampoline
Thu Slow run 47 minutes (4 miles!) (okay last 0.7 "vanity" only!)
Fri 0
Sat Core, weights
Sun 52 minutes run with walk breaks (2)

(1) walking based on heart rate -- set the HR alarm to chime any time
I hit 80% (pretty easy to do in my level of (de-) conditioning --
walked until it got down to low 70%'s. This one was on flat park
trails.

(2) this one was slow-run 300M walk balance of lane 8 at the track.

Week: total distance 14.4 miles run 8.6 -- but the important thing
was time on legs and working on aerobic capacity. I have already
noticed that my heart rate returns to a "low active" rate faster than
it did 3 weeks ago.

New shoes: Found a pair of Asics 1110's on clearance and fell in foot
love. I've settled on very neutral shoes so far: Asics Landreths,
Mizuno Wave Rider 9s, Loco Banditos. The 1110 (and I assume the new
1120) has some more "structure" in the heel -- there is a plastic
"sandal strap" kind of a thing that wraps the heel and is part of the
hard plastic mid-foot girder. There is very little "motion control"
in the shoe, but I find that having the extra stability structure
helps my weak tibial-fibular-talar-cuboid joint somewhat.

Peace,
--
Daniel ( [email protected] )

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



26 Feb 2007 08:40:57
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 25, 9:55 pm, h squared <[email protected] > wrote:

> when and how were you injured?

Last year, about 2 weeks after a 50-mile trail race, I developed
tibialis anterior tendinitis. This is the tendon that attaches the top
of the foot to tibialis anterior muscle of the front of the lower leg.
It allows you to dorsiflex your foot (point toes towards knee) -
http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus441.html.Probably caused by ramping
up too soon after the race and not staying away from the hills.

> do you think walking helps at all?

I pretty much did nothing for 2 weeks. I iced the area 3 or 4 times a
day, got a prescription for prednisone and took Ibuprofen to reduce
the inflammation. After 2 weeks I eased into walking. After 3 weeks
got back into easy running, with minimal downhills. The downhills are
what really stresses that tendon and muscle.

> i mean, i know it helps me to keep from gaining weight, but did you feel
> like it helped you to retain some running fitness?

Probably maintained some fitness. It didn't really help me with the
weight, since I gained about 5 pounds during that episode (prednisone
also increased my hunger). I think the walking was more for keeping my
sanity. ;-)

--
Phil M.



26 Feb 2007 09:24:45
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 25, 9:49 pm, "D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > Wed 9.02 vo2 81% 1,308 5x1200m @ 5k pace; jog 2 min between
> > Week 20 of 24-week marathon training program, week 4 of 5-week race
> > preparation phase. 5x1200m Intervals on the road Wednesday were tough.
> > Playing all sorts of mental games to get through it.
>
> You know before I read the above paragraph, what went through my head on
> reading about Wednesday was: "Egad, 6k in long intervals at 5k pace, what a
> masochist!". I found that kind of thing easier to do with 400m or 200m. I
> could do 3 x 1 mile at 5k pace, but that was my limit.

Actually, my pace did fall off for the last two 1200s. Probably more
like 10K race pace.

> > Sunday's long run felt like crap.
>
> Whenever the long run feels like crap, I slow it way down. In my
> experience, the pace of the long run is the least important aspect of a
> marathon training week, if something has to be sacrificed for equilibrium.

Yes. My pace did slow down about 30 sec/mile. A few reasons were the
hilliness of the run and the temps were up to 67 (haven't seen that in
awhile). Also, before the run my heart rate was up at least 10 BPMs
before I even started, so I had a feeling that today just wasn't going
to be my day.

> > 3/03/07 10K tuneup race
> > 3/25/07 ING Georgia Marathon
>
> Will you do a mini-taper for the 10k?

*Very* mini, as in Mo-off, Tu-9 (vo2 max intervals), We-13, Th-6
(easy), Fr-off, Sa-10k and 3(easy), Sun-19.

> 10k's always gave me confidence in my marathon pacing plans...

Sort of torn between maintaining the weekly mileage and doing a better
10K to boost my confidence. My usual scenario is to train through the
race and treat it as an all-out effort done while fatigued, putting my
finishing time in context of the situation. In other words, I have a
built-in excuse for a poor performance. ;-)

> Care to divulge your hopes for the marathon?

Not sure, since this will be the first marathon I've run that wasn't
either flat (Chicago) or downhill (Steamtown and Boston). One thing
for sure is I won't be qualifying for Boston (sub 3:36) at ING
Georgia. If I had to nail down a time, I'd say 3:45. At least start
out with that sort of pace, then see how it goes.

--
Phil M.



26 Feb 2007 09:38:15
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 25, 9:51 pm, "D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote
>
> >> He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he said,
> >> he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the great Bob Hodge
> >> with unbroken course record of 48+ min and won Mt. Washington road
> >> race 7 times.
>
> > Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).
>
> I wonder how old he is now and how he did at the race??

He's 51. He ran it in 1:12:44. http://tinyurl.com/2mzwzc
His course record is 48:57 in 1984.

--
Phil M.



26 Feb 2007 09:45:33
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Dan wrote:
> ** If the distance was 3.46, and if I'm allowed to use 55.33 as my age, then
> I finally cracked the mythical 80% wava barrier for the first time since
> '84, and with less mileage -- I was running 90+ then, and weighed 8 lbs less
> to boot. This is very curious to me. But I'll have to run a certified
> course before I break out the champagne.

Nicely done, at any rate.

Seems like a good stepping stone toward a more official 80: I mean,
people talk about overdistance and underdistance races as good prep,
well you've balanced it out by combining overdistance with
undercertified.

Now if you can just find an overcertified race which is nonetheless
underdistance, 80+ ought to be a piece of (low cal, so Hutch will join
us) cake!

P.S. You're welcome. I'm happy to have hosted your sinus infection
this weekend so you could go out and race well. Just don't expect it
every weekend.



26 Feb 2007 13:20:09
Teresa Bippert-Plymate
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007



Tony S. wrote:

> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

Goals: Valley of Gold Half Marathon March 18 (I think), local short
races. I've already missed two GPs so I'm probably already out for this
year. But it was worth it to run the ultra!

Mon: Rest Day
Tue: 5.52 mi @ 9:17 pace. Mid-60's. New trail shoes, first pair. Very
different from road shoes. Feet were OK with them though.
Wed: 6.3 mi @ quick (messed the timing) Quick run before jumping on a
bus all day...
Thur: Disneyland! Walked a heckuva lot, but pretty much covered
everything and then some. Isn't being a fit runner great?
Fri: California Adventure! Ditto! Woo hoo!
Sat: Bus all day.....yawn.....
Sun: 6.3 mi @ slow pace. Sleepy this morning (got in late). But
sure nice to get out and run.

Total: Eek, only 18.12 miles! Get out the flail!

Teresa in AZ



26 Feb 2007 18:00:32
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Teresa Bippert-Plymate" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
>
> Tony S. wrote:
>
>> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.
> Total: Eek, only 18.12 miles! Get out the flail!
>

There's nothing wrong with that, it's time for recovery.
I wish I had followed that advice in the past. It will be interesting to see
how I recover from a trail ultra though. The longest I've ever run on a
trail is 23 miles or so. I still feel like I ran a road Marathon today as a
result of Saturday's adventure, if my eyebrows had muscles they would hurt
too!

Parker





26 Feb 2007 16:45:42
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Phil M. wrote:


> Last year, about 2 weeks after a 50-mile trail race, I developed
> tibialis anterior tendinitis. This is the tendon that attaches the top
> of the foot to tibialis anterior muscle of the front of the lower leg.
> It allows you to dorsiflex your foot (point toes towards knee) -
> http://www.bartleby.com/107/illus441.html.Probably caused by ramping
> up too soon after the race and not staying away from the hills.

i've never had that one (knock wood!) sounds painful though :(


> Probably maintained some fitness. It didn't really help me with the
> weight, since I gained about 5 pounds during that episode (prednisone
> also increased my hunger). I think the walking was more for keeping my
> sanity. ;-)

my dog was on prednisone and the doctor said it can make him gain
weight, and be more irritable ;) thank god for walking!

anyway, i know what you mean about sanity. i was just tryin to guess
what level i should be training at after my knee feels better if i've
been doing the same volume of miles as before my injury but have
replaced half to three quarters of them with walking instead of running.
but i think i've been doing this for long enough that i'll be able to
judge as i go along by how i'm feeling.

thanks,
h


27 Feb 2007 02:07:01
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

36 miles, including a 10K (40:00 - PR) and a 5K (19:57).

Sort of a repeat of last week, with a bit more mileage, but still
way below what would qualify as credible marathon training. At
this rate, even if I do run a Spring marathon, it won't be pretty.

I racked up 25 miles early in the week, but then my legs just died
and it made no sense to be shuffling out there for vanity numbers.
So I took a couple of days off, which wasn't really enough.

Saturday race was the Charles Harris 10K. Ran a 40:00, 75/961,
80.8% WAVA, a 20 second PR. Despite the PR, I came in a
surprising 5th in my AG. It was a very competitive turnout. The
AG winner was none other Colorado's Benji Durden, once again
carpetbagging his way through the South. At age 55 he ran a
36:27, which is 88% WAVA. Guy's still fast. Ken Youngers, a 50
year-old local guy won the Masters in 33:22 - a whopping 92% WAVA.

I had a good run for the first three miles, then fatigue began to
set in. I was really hurting in the last couple of miles. I
think I may be overdoing it with all this racing, not really
allowing enough time for non-race recovery. I was actually
surprised to have run the 40:00, so I don't feel too bad that the
sub-40 eluded me. Maybe next time.

Next day I went out for an afternoon 5K (Challenged Child in
Gainesville). Surprisingly, I felt pretty good and ended up with
a 19:57, 8/155, 1st AG, despite a tough, hilly course and another
very competitive field. There was a $1,000 prize purse, so a half
a dozen top Atlanta Track Club runners turned up to compete with
each other for beer money. Given that, coming in 8th OA was
actually quite satisfying.

But that's all I had. I tried going out for a 10 miler after the
race, but got kind of dizzy after a couple of miles so I packed it
in. I intend to take it easy this week and then run another 10K on
Saturday. But after that, I gotta start slogging out a few of
those 20-milers or my next marathon will have to be postponed
until the Fall.


27 Feb 2007 02:11:59
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

steve common <[email protected] > wrote

> Tue 1:13 14 9 73 52' [email protected]% 5'18/k 8'32/k. 13' down. 12C
> 6x200m in 39-37"/40" jog recovery
>
> Wed 1:30 18 11 79 32' up 71% 5'03k 8'07/mi, drills. 17'dwn 11C
> 8x800m/400 in 2'57-2'54/2'15-2'25
>

Hell of a training week. You are really getting in some quality
speedwork. Those Yassos are a good sign for Paris. As soon as I get
done with my local racing nonsense, I intend to follow in your
inspiring track footsteps.





27 Feb 2007 02:13:19
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Phil M." <[email protected] > wrote

> On Feb 25, 9:51 pm, "D Stumpus" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote
>>
>> >> He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he
>> >> said, he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the
>> >> great Bob Hodge with unbroken course record of 48+ min and
>> >> won Mt. Washington road race 7 times.
>>
>> > Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).
>>
>> I wonder how old he is now and how he did at the race??
>
> He's 51. He ran it in 1:12:44. http://tinyurl.com/2mzwzc
> His course record is 48:57 in 1984.

Looks like he's slowing down. He ain't no Benji Durden. :-)


27 Feb 2007 02:17:23
Tony S.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Parker Race" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Teresa Bippert-Plymate" <[email protected]> wrote in message

>> Total: Eek, only 18.12 miles! Get out the flail!
>
> There's nothing wrong with that, it's time for recovery.
> I wish I had followed that advice in the past. It will be interesting to
> see how I recover from a trail ultra though. The longest I've ever run on
> a trail is 23 miles or so. I still feel like I ran a road Marathon today
> as a result of Saturday's adventure, if my eyebrows had muscles they would
> hurt too!
>
> Parker

Saturday was 4 laps on Meads? (+ a little) That's more than a flat
marathon, and quite a quad chewing doing the downs on roads. I'll wait for
the snow to clear off the overlook trail before I start doing hill laps up
there.

-Tony




27 Feb 2007 02:21:16
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Sa --- Bailed on 4M race because Friday's cold (throat,
> sinus)
> kept getting worse, and then insomnia struck. One
> or the other, maybe I'd still race, but not with
> both.

Too bad. I had my own scare on Sunday. Started to get really bad
sore throat after my 5K race. Then got dizzy a couple of miles into
a 10 miler. I was so worried that when I got home I dug out the
emergency bottle of Pen-V-K's just in case I had to start self-
medicating. Fortuntely, so far I seem to be hanging in there without
the antibiotics. Hate getting sick at the start of the racing season.



27 Feb 2007 02:34:00
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote

> When I saw the time, 21:27, almost 2 minutes off my goal, I was
> like, oh well, at least I got a hard effort in. At the finish I
> talked with some guys who ran it with GPS's, and their average
> reading was 3.46 miles. The 15 minute guys ran 17 and change.

So you've run three 5Ks lately and two of them were mismeasured?
What is it with your RDs out there in LA - amateur hour? Don't
these guys own a friggin' measuring wheel? Or a bike?

Anyway, if your numbers are right, another excellent effort. I'm
sure you'll repeat that soon on an accurate course. If all else
fails, come out here for a weekend - there's usually at least a
dozen races of various flavors to choose from.

BTW, what's the racing scene like in LA? Do you have a bunch of
races scheduled every weekend? Is there an online calendar that
captures most of the area races?


27 Feb 2007 02:44:06
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Now if you can just find an overcertified race which is
> nonetheless underdistance, 80+ ought to be a piece of (low cal,
> so Hutch will join us) cake!

If it has to be cake, it better be made with almond flour. After
Iggy pointed out runners' joints don't tolerate wheat products, I
haven't touched them. And he may have been right - my joints have
been on their best behavior ever since then. :-)

Speaking of Iggy, seems like it's about time we had another nutrition
thread. It's been a while since we had a good nutrition (or
hydration) flame war. Kind of miss those days.

Either that or bring back Lance. It's been too quiet.


26 Feb 2007 21:43:10
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hutch wrote:
> After Iggy pointed out runners' joints don't tolerate wheat
> products, I haven't touched them. And he may have been
> right - my joints have been on their best behavior ever
> since then. :-)

Post-Iggy, if anything I've increased my wheat intake and joints are
trouble-free. :-)

Then again for all we know it's the wheat keeping me from running at
your 80+% level. Yeah, that's it, it's that 10% WAVA wheat penalty.

Seriously, had your joints (what, knees? other?) given you trouble
previously?


> Either that or bring back Lance. It's been too quiet.

Never thought I'd be agreeing, but yes. I think with lance and TBR
(mostly) absent and most everyone so damn orderly and agreeable, I
feel pulled toward being more of an ass more often than maybe I'd
prefer, just to liven it up a little.

Or maybe that's also the wheat.

Or having run out of the magic rompope.

But if lance returns, he's got to keep it just a little fresher and
less one-note than he was for his last few months here, in his
taunting of Doug and the ultra delegation. It was getting so his
dialog could've been (maybe was) ghostwritten or computer generated.



26 Feb 2007 21:49:02
Twittering One
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

CP, please post on my Animal Rescue thread ~
I've been shopping so hard for new running shoes,
and running so many miles, way too fast, too,
that I am too exhausted.



26 Feb 2007 22:13:12
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hutch wrote:
> Either that or bring back Lance. It's been too quiet.

Speaking of hot-blooded rabble-rousers, where's anders?

Last we heard from him here a few months ago, he went from a brilliant
comedic impersonation of Dr. Nick to even more morose than yer average
Finn in December in but a few paragraphs:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.running/msg/42fc31e03f4ccb50

I guess that means injury or illness. Hope you're as well as can be,
anders, and that some day you'll rejoin us as both a runner and a
writer.

- - -

Oh, and back to that cake sans wheat flour. I'm not much of a baker,
nor very good of late at keeping women around who are. Unless Dan's
wife or hh were inspired to whip something up, I'd fall back on this
really nice garbanzo based torte I made one Thanksgiving. It's in the
cookbook/family history/cultural culinary study _Recipe of Memory:
Five Generations of Mexican Cuisine_ by Victor and Mary Lou Valle,
copyright 1995, page 52. I ain't gonna type in the procedure but
here's the ingredients:

Torta de Garbanzo

The cinnamon, almonds, sweetened garbanzos, and
powdered sugar strongly suggest a Moorish origin
to this recipe. This torte is considered a
traditional favorite in Jalisco and the neighboring
state of Aguascalientes.

1 pound garbanzo beans
1-1/2 cups vegetable shortening
1-1/2 cups granulated sugar
2 heaping tablespoons cotija cheese or Parmesan
1 tablespoon cinnamon
1/2 cup raisins
3 large eggs, separated

GARNISH
2-3 ounces sliced almonds
1 teaspoon confectioner's sugar



26 Feb 2007 22:27:31
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Twitty wrote:
> CP, please post on my Animal Rescue thread ~
> I've been shopping so hard for new running shoes,
> and running so many miles, way too fast, too,
> that I am too exhausted.

But not too exhausted to post to *this* thread and ask me to do your
bidding, eh?

OK, I owe you anyway.



27 Feb 2007 05:34:44
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "Parker Race" <[email protected]> wrote in message Saturday was 4 laps on
> Meads? (+ a little) That's more than a flat marathon, and quite a quad
> chewing doing the downs on roads. I'll wait for the snow to clear off the
> overlook trail before I start doing hill laps up there.
>
> -Tony

I only did three laps (23 miles).
I didn't get up in time to make the first lap.
Only Papa Bear and two of the ladies did 4. :)

Parker




27 Feb 2007 06:14:39
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Parker Race" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Tony S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and
>> goals.
>
> Mon - 0
> Tues - 6
> Wed - 7
> Thur - 6
> Friday - 0
> Saturday - 23 5000ft. ?

Not quite. Each 9 mile loop is about 1,300 and the 5 is 1,100 for about
3,700. My extra 5 brought me to 28 miles and 4,800.

A good sign is I felt great the next day. We went to NYC Sunday and
walked to a from Chelsea from Grand Central and back. Not really that
far but my legs felt good.


> Thruway toll $3.20
> Gas - $10.00
> 2 E-gels, 2 E-fuels and an optimium bar - $8.00
> Lunch at Bread Alone with DF and friends - priceless!


Thanks. You can see why we have been doing these runs every
winter(Dec-Mar) for many years in just about any weather conditions.
Some hardcore runners and climbers in this group. About 4-5 are ultra
runners, some marathoners and a few just wanting to stay in shape.
That's why I cut these runs into 5, 7, 9, and 13 mile chunks for people
to cut and paste and yet finish at the same time so we can eat.

Each year the group has grown by a few people. I could easily double the
number if I allowed anyone to come but I want to keep the talent pool
high. Said differently, no one slower than Dorothy.

I got a note from Dave, who is strong runner before he started coming
this year, to tell me that the hill repeats he does during the week are
now a cake walk at his old pace and had to kick those up a notch. A lot
to be said for pure power and then add some speed and ya got a winner.

-Doug





27 Feb 2007 07:03:51
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Doug Freese" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "Parker Race" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>>
>> "Tony S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]
>>> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and
>>> goals.
>>
>> Mon - 0
>> Tues - 6
>> Wed - 7
>> Thur - 6
>> Friday - 0
>> Saturday - 23 5000ft. ?
>
> Not quite. Each 9 mile loop is about 1,300 and the 5 is 1,100 for about
> 3,700. My extra 5 brought me to 28 miles and 4,800.

Yes, I figured that out yesterday on Gmaps.
>
> A good sign is I felt great the next day. We went to NYC Sunday and walked
> to a from Chelsea from Grand Central and back. Not really that far but my
> legs felt good.

I walked about 3 miles back and forth to my volunteer post at the local
Winter Marathon/Marathon Relay.
I broke into a slow jog for the last mile, felt ok, I passed at least one
Marathon Runner.
>
>
>> Thruway toll $3.20
>> Gas - $10.00
>> 2 E-gels, 2 E-fuels and an optimium bar - $8.00
>> Lunch at Bread Alone with DF and friends - priceless!
>
> Thanks. You can see why we have been doing these runs every
> winter(Dec-Mar) for many years in just about any weather conditions. Some
> hardcore runners and climbers in this group. About 4-5 are ultra runners,
> some marathoners and a few just wanting to stay in shape. That's why I cut
> these runs into 5, 7, 9, and 13 mile chunks for people to cut and paste
> and yet finish at the same time so we can eat.

I hope John was OK later. I gave him an E-Gel but I'm not sure if he used it
or not. Hopefully it had nothing to do with his stomach issues.

>
> Each year the group has grown by a few people. I could easily double the
> number if I allowed anyone to come but I want to keep the talent pool
> high. Said differently, no one slower than Dorothy.
>
I guess I get a passing grade, I had my doubts. I should have backed off on
the first trip down when I went with Jimmy and then Steve when he dropped me
on the first hill. I say let Uma joins us no matter how slow she is though,
I'll volunteer to stay back with her!

> I got a note from Dave, who is strong runner before he started coming this
> year, to tell me that the hill repeats he does during the week are now a
> cake walk at his old pace and had to kick those up a notch. A lot to be
> said for pure power and then add some speed and ya got a winner.

No speed for me for now. The "nueroma" or "metarsalgia" in my right foot
started acting up back at the end of January when I started doing speed on
the road. Now everything else is sore that I hardly notice it though!
I did the elliptical yesterday and I had to keep cranking the resistance to
get my heart rate to 130.

Parker





27 Feb 2007 12:31:01
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"MarkH" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
| 36 miles, including a 10K (40:00 - PR) and a 5K (19:57).

3 races in a week with one PR, that's great.
Congratulations on your PR.




27 Feb 2007 12:42:23
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Seriously, had your joints (what, knees? other?) given you
> trouble previously?

Yeah, I'd get knee pain couple of times a year. Been pain-free for
about a year. That's due to either stronger leg muscles, changing
shoes more often, or absence of Iggytoxins. I prefer to give all
the credit to Iggy, because creativity should be rewarded.

> Or having run out of the magic rompope.

I've been considering your recipe. Do the almonds change the taste
noticeably from the more classic configuration?

> But if lance returns, he's got to keep it just a little fresher

I am actually amazed he's stayed out this long. Must be taking
that political shtick seriously. Seen him on the news yet?



27 Feb 2007 12:45:00
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Torta de Garbanzo

I tried to have a Mexican barbecue once, but the garbanzo beans kept
falling through the grill.


27 Feb 2007 15:22:32
Robert Grumbine
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

In article <[email protected] >,
h squared <[email protected] > wrote:
>Phil M. wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>sun 4 mile W (11:53)
>>
>> That's a fast walk. When I was injured and could only walk, anything under
>> 15:00 felt difficult without breaking into a jog.
>
>thanks :) i was happy with myself after i was done with it (hopefully
>the garmin wasn't too far off..)
>
>walking fast is hard for me because if i don't constantly pay attention
>to trying to walk as fast as possible, i instantly slack off to 15/16
>min/mile, so it's kinda like:
>
>"walkwalkwalk, check pace on garmin, walkwalk, check pace- oops, i
>slowed down! walkfastfastFASTER, check pace." (repeat for 48 minutes..)
>
>i don't know if it will help me at all in the long run, but i like to
>play little games like that sometimes when i'm sidelined.
>
>when and how were you injured? do you think walking helps at all? i
>mean, i know it helps me to keep from gaining weight, but did you feel
>like it helped you to retain some running fitness?

A couple of years ago I tore my left rotator cuff and couldn't run
with it. (Unlike a couple years before that, when I tore the right and
could run with it. Different tear.)

So I went to walking at speed. Like you, I was under 12:00/mile when
I kept my attention to it, and backed off to about 16:00 when my mind
wandered. Did a 10k then in about 76 minutes, having aimed for 13:45
pace on the first half (to be official last runner, didn't slow down
enough and was slighlty under 40 for the first half) and then accelerated
to about 11:30 for the second.

Doing this 2-3 times a week definitely helped slow my loss of
aerobic conditioning. It did tail off, but not nearly as much as
3-4 months of doing nothing would have caused. It also put a
floor on how much I lost. When I was able to run again,
I could start with 3-5 miles, rather than 3-5 minutes.

But then I went for the 5-8 miles too soon after starting back,
and wound up running less and less. Beware the enthusiasm of
recovery!

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences


27 Feb 2007 07:41:59
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 26, 9:13 pm, MarkH <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > On Feb 25, 9:51 pm, "D Stumpus" <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >> "Phil M." <[email protected]> wrote
>
> >> >> He was a little shy to talk about it, but not to be rude he
> >> >> said, he has course record from 1984. Turns out, he is the
> >> >> great Bob Hodge with unbroken course record of 48+ min and
> >> >> won Mt. Washington road race 7 times.
>
> >> > Yes. Quite the accomplished runner. 2:10:59 marathon (1980).
>
> >> I wonder how old he is now and how he did at the race??
>
> > He's 51. He ran it in 1:12:44.http://tinyurl.com/2mzwzc
> > His course record is 48:57 in 1984.
>
> Looks like he's slowing down. He ain't no Benji Durden. :-)

Right. Benji used to be on the CompuServe forum back in '96. Now he
occasionally pops up on the DRS mailing list. He mentioned that he
used to run somewhere around where I live now. Must be when he lived
in Stone Mountain in the 70s (gotta love Wikipedia). Bemji and Bob
must have gone head to head on occasion, since it looks like they both
were at their peak in the early 80s. Benji's PR is 2:09:58.

--
Phil M.



27 Feb 2007 10:43:47
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Tony S. wrote:
> "Parker Race" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> "Teresa Bippert-Plymate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>> Total: Eek, only 18.12 miles! Get out the flail!
>> There's nothing wrong with that, it's time for recovery.
>> I wish I had followed that advice in the past. It will be interesting to
>> see how I recover from a trail ultra though. The longest I've ever run on
>> a trail is 23 miles or so. I still feel like I ran a road Marathon today
>> as a result of Saturday's adventure, if my eyebrows had muscles they would
>> hurt too!
>>
>> Parker
>
> Saturday was 4 laps on Meads? (+ a little) That's more than a flat
> marathon, and quite a quad chewing doing the downs on roads. I'll wait for
> the snow to clear off the overlook trail before I start doing hill laps up
> there.
>
> -Tony
>
>
The strange thing is my quads didn't complain at all, my right calf
started to cramp before the last lap but I kept going and it went away.

Parker


27 Feb 2007 09:09:33
Teresa Bippert-Plymate
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Wow, you ran three races in a week and STILL PR'ed! That's
fantastic, though yes, I do think your body may be wanting
to take a break here soon! But big congrats on the PR and
the AG placing(s). Rest, eat! Then hit the marathon trail?

Teresa in AZ

MarkH wrote:

> 36 miles, including a 10K (40:00 - PR) and a 5K (19:57).
>
> Sort of a repeat of last week, with a bit more mileage, but still
> way below what would qualify as credible marathon training. At
> this rate, even if I do run a Spring marathon, it won't be pretty.
>
> I racked up 25 miles early in the week, but then my legs just died
> and it made no sense to be shuffling out there for vanity numbers.
> So I took a couple of days off, which wasn't really enough.
>
> Saturday race was the Charles Harris 10K. Ran a 40:00, 75/961,
> 80.8% WAVA, a 20 second PR. Despite the PR, I came in a
> surprising 5th in my AG. It was a very competitive turnout. The
> AG winner was none other Colorado's Benji Durden, once again
> carpetbagging his way through the South. At age 55 he ran a
> 36:27, which is 88% WAVA. Guy's still fast. Ken Youngers, a 50
> year-old local guy won the Masters in 33:22 - a whopping 92% WAVA.
>
> I had a good run for the first three miles, then fatigue began to
> set in. I was really hurting in the last couple of miles. I
> think I may be overdoing it with all this racing, not really
> allowing enough time for non-race recovery. I was actually
> surprised to have run the 40:00, so I don't feel too bad that the
> sub-40 eluded me. Maybe next time.
>
> Next day I went out for an afternoon 5K (Challenged Child in
> Gainesville). Surprisingly, I felt pretty good and ended up with
> a 19:57, 8/155, 1st AG, despite a tough, hilly course and another
> very competitive field. There was a $1,000 prize purse, so a half
> a dozen top Atlanta Track Club runners turned up to compete with
> each other for beer money. Given that, coming in 8th OA was
> actually quite satisfying.
>
> But that's all I had. I tried going out for a 10 miler after the
> race, but got kind of dizzy after a couple of miles so I packed it
> in. I intend to take it easy this week and then run another 10K on
> Saturday. But after that, I gotta start slogging out a few of
> those 20-milers or my next marathon will have to be postponed
> until the Fall.



27 Feb 2007 12:24:04
mr.b
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 03:08:16 +0000, Tony S. wrote:

> Greetings rec.runners! Please tell us about your training week and goals.

to quote the lance; "ouch, terrible, awful"

flu

I haven't been out of this fscking bed since last Wed. I now understand
why this kills people.


uggghh



26 Feb 2007 22:23:48
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"MarkH" <[email protected] > wrote

> So you've run three 5Ks lately and two of them were mismeasured?
> What is it with your RDs out there in LA - amateur hour? Don't
> these guys own a friggin' measuring wheel? Or a bike?

I think I know what went wrong on this one: There was an out-and-back of
several hundred yards on a corner of the first loop -- one of those sections
you make a hairpin around a cone and come back -- and my guess is we weren't
supposed to run it on the second lap. The Police motorcyclist messed up.
This was a no-records-kept kind of race. We got a number, but no official
time, just the clock (which was, at least accurate). No chips, mile
markers, etc, just a bunch of game runners to compete against, and the usual
gaggle of High School XC guys and gals.

> BTW, what's the racing scene like in LA? Do you have a bunch of
> races scheduled every weekend? Is there an online calendar that
> captures most of the area races?

Yes, and you can sort of deduce which ones are likely to be professional:

http://www.raceplace.com/crunla.shtml

and for ultra-holics: http://www.socalultraseries.org/

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and good luck on your running, too.
And do post a training week now and again...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



26 Feb 2007 21:59:03
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"MarkH" <[email protected] > wrote in message

>> He's 51. He ran it in 1:12:44. http://tinyurl.com/2mzwzc
>> His course record is 48:57 in 1984.
>
> Looks like he's slowing down. He ain't no Benji Durden. :-)

Spooky how former 98% wava guys end up slower than slugs (in the world class
realm) like you and me...

You almost wonder if there's a curse associated with being so damn fast in
one's youth...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



27 Feb 2007 17:34:11
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"I2Run" <[email protected] > wrote

>
> "MarkH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>| 36 miles, including a 10K (40:00 - PR) and a 5K (19:57).
>
> 3 races in a week with one PR, that's great.
> Congratulations on your PR.

Thx. Although you did give me credit for an extra race. :-)


27 Feb 2007 18:32:21
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote

> Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and good luck on your
> running, too. And do post a training week now and again...

Thanks. And I thought I did, maybe you missed it. Here's a recap:
MTW - 25 miles (10,10,5), SaSu - 11 miles (2 races + w/u).



27 Feb 2007 18:42:04
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Teresa Bippert-Plymate <[email protected] > wrote

> Wow, you ran three races in a week and STILL PR'ed! That's
> fantastic, though yes, I do think your body may be wanting
> to take a break here soon! But big congrats on the PR and
> the AG placing(s). Rest, eat! Then hit the marathon trail?

Thanks, Teresa. Although I don't know why I keep getting credit for
three races, instead of two. :-)

As for "rest, eat" - sadly, I get to do one, but not the other. For
me they are kind of mutually exclusive. :-(


27 Feb 2007 19:02:43
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Phil M. said...

>Right. Benji used to be on the CompuServe forum back in '96. Now
>he occasionally pops up on the DRS mailing list. He mentioned
>that he used to run somewhere around where I live now. Must be
>when he lived in Stone Mountain in the 70s (gotta love
>Wikipedia). Bemji and Bob must have gone head to head on
>occasion, since it looks like they both were at their peak in the
>early 80s. Benji's PR is 2:09:58.

I've also seen him pop-up on the letsrun forum. That's where I
learned about his interesting approach to simulating altitude
training - overheat the core by running in triple sweats in the
middle of a Georgia summer. Must have been quite a sight. I'm
not sure I'm ready to try that, but it did teach me that it's OK
to overheat on training runs. I used to treat winter training
runs like races - if you are comfortable at the start, you're
overdressed. So I'd suffer for the first couple of miles until I
warmed up. But now I dress warmly enough to be comfortable right
from the start, knowing I might actually be benefiting from a
bit of extra sweating.

Here's a great article about him Running Times:
http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=6998&page=1

Ironically, he credits a blister for pretty much ending his
running career. I thought about that at the Tucson marathon when
a similar blister began forming on my foot. Fortunately, I had no
lasting damage.


27 Feb 2007 11:56:46
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hutch wrote:
> I've been considering your recipe. Do the almonds change the
> taste noticeably from the more classic configuration?

I've never had someone else's rendition, and have never left out the
almonds. I really like it *with* the almonds though, and though I'm
sure it's good without, I think the texture and flavor would be just a
little too, uh, simple. This last batch, due to some equipment
issues, I didn't get all the almonds ground really finely - and it's
kinda nice this way: you get a little something to chew on in your
drink.


> I am actually amazed he's stayed out this long. Must be taking
> that political shtick seriously. Seen him on the news yet?

Heh, nope, but then I don't watch the news. I reckon, anything truly
important happens, I'll read about it on one running forum or another.



27 Feb 2007 12:20:33
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Dan wrote:
> Spooky how former 98% wava guys end up slower than slugs (in the
> world class realm) like you and me...
>
> You almost wonder if there's a curse associated with being so damn
> fast in one's youth...

I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having burned out
from so much training.

Here's another guess: some guys who have spent years competing at a
world or at least national class level just don't get super motivated
twenty years later to work their asses off to compete for AG honors at
their local races. They jog 15 miles per week and run some races for
enjoyment and health and the social scene, almost like ordinary people.



27 Feb 2007 13:16:24
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hutch wrote:
> I tried to have a Mexican barbecue once, but the garbanzo
> beans kept falling through the grill.

No no no, you're doing it all wrong.

You set up the coals in two banks to the outside of the grill, and
nestle your heavy duty foil pan in the center. That's where your
garbanzos go, along with the potatoes, carrots, onion, garlic,
epazote, and some water. Then while your salsa-marinated lamb cooks a
few hours in your covered grill, your soup below catches all those
wonderful drippings.

I refer you to _Rick Bayless's Mexican Kitchen: Capturing the Vibrant
Flavors of a World-Class Cuisine_, copyright 1996, pg 376-7.

Hey whaddyaknow, here it is online:
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_19277,00.html



27 Feb 2007 19:07:32
joe positive
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 18:38:36 -0800, "D Stumpus"
<[email protected] > wrote:

>Well done. I would have done almost as well!
>
>It's rough when there's a delayed reaction as on R-day.

No kidding. Until that point I was seriously considering a marathon
this coming Sunday. A few hours after the run, after the pain had set
in, I had to face the fact that I won't be rcaing 26.2 until the fall.

Karen



live! vicariously!


27 Feb 2007 18:22:40
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"joe positive" <[email protected] > wrote

> No kidding. Until that point I was seriously considering a marathon
> this coming Sunday. A few hours after the run, after the pain had set
> in, I had to face the fact that I won't be rcaing 26.2 until the fall.

Yeah, marathon scheduling is such a pain, because you really use yourself up
and have to recover and then ramp up again for a couple of months before you
feel good again.

Do you think you can do anything to reduce whatever stress caused the
injury, like another insole or shoe, softer surfaces (do faster runs only on
dirt or a tartan track, eg), prayer, etc?

A forefoot injury took out USA's best marathoner at the top of his form --
after two 2:05 marathons and WR's. I guess it's worthy of respect.

I've been running pretty good lately, and gave half a thought to running the
LA Marathon this Saturday, shooting for 3:02-3:05, now that it's a 500' net
downhill course, but thought I'd be better off going for the mythical sub-3
this fall if my short distance times improve another couple of notches...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



27 Feb 2007 13:23:51
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Oh, and back to that cake sans wheat flour. I'm not much of a baker,
> nor very good of late at keeping women around who are. Unless Dan's
> wife or hh were inspired to whip something up, I'd fall back on this
> really nice garbanzo based torte I made one Thanksgiving.

I'm a bit late on this thread, but we cook sans wheat almost always. We use
Spelt, almond, and other substitutes....I do get wheat when I order a fast
food sandwich or burrito, but I eschew it the night before a race these
days. Those post-run cookies were wheat-free, btw...



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



28 Feb 2007 07:06:59
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> "MarkH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>> He's 51. He ran it in 1:12:44. http://tinyurl.com/2mzwzc
>>> His course record is 48:57 in 1984.
>>
>> Looks like he's slowing down. He ain't no Benji Durden. :-)
>
> Spooky how former 98% wava guys end up slower than slugs (in the world
> class realm) like you and me...
>
> You almost wonder if there's a curse associated with being so damn
> fast in one's youth...


Yup, Shit happens. :)

-Doug




28 Feb 2007 07:17:38
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Dan wrote:
>> Spooky how former 98% wava guys end up slower than slugs (in the
>> world class realm) like you and me...
>>
>> You almost wonder if there's a curse associated with being so damn
>> fast in one's youth...
>
> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having burned out
> from so much training.

Stop beating the dead horse. We'll see how long you hold the big miles
before your life or body suggests you make some changes.

>
> Here's another guess: some guys who have spent years competing at a
> world or at least national class level just don't get super motivated
> twenty years later to work their asses off to compete for AG honors at
> their local races. They jog 15 miles per week and run some races for
> enjoyment and health and the social scene, almost like ordinary
> people.

I agree big time and admire those that continue to run but at pedestrian
paces. All to many quit running altogether one they can't compete
anymore. Type A's with big egos can't handle being once a runner so
they take up dominoes and talk about the old days with double chins.

-Doug

>




28 Feb 2007 07:25:23
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Phil M." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
like he's slowing down. He ain't no Benji Durden. :-)
>
> Right. Benji used to be on the CompuServe forum back in '96. Now he
> occasionally pops up on the DRS mailing list.

Many years back I was a avid member of DRS and Benji was on the board.
I still have a printed copy of his marathon program which I felt helped
take my marathon races up a notch in my early days. At the time had
one of the few programs that suggested you run long two weeks in a row
and then cut back, rather than every other week.

-Doug




28 Feb 2007 07:38:15
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Tony S." <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Saturday was 4 laps on Meads? (+ a little) That's more than a flat
> marathon, and quite a quad chewing doing the downs on roads. I'll wait
> for the snow to clear off the overlook trail before I start doing hill
> laps up there.

Not the same route as we run in the summer. We don't run the trails at
all, it is solid ice and not worth the effort. There is a 9 mile road
loop that starts in the village and goes to the Buddhists and down the
backside and back to the start. We reverse direction for variety. One
direction is short and steep while the other is less steep but a longer
up. The purpose is to abuse all the muscles. For those doing extra
credit we just run from town to the Buddha and back - one hour and 5
miles.

My goal was run about 5 hours

-Doug




28 Feb 2007 09:06:34
Teresa Bippert-Plymate
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hehe, you're right, I misread the post too. I guess it shows
how quickly I scanned it, since I *try* to at least quickly
scan the posts every day, but I do miss a lot. Anyway, then,
congrats on the TWO race! and the PR!

Ok, just a liitle bit of rest, eat, then? ;-)

Teresa in AZ

MarkH wrote:

> Teresa Bippert-Plymate <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>>Wow, you ran three races in a week and STILL PR'ed! That's
>>fantastic, though yes, I do think your body may be wanting
>>to take a break here soon! But big congrats on the PR and
>>the AG placing(s). Rest, eat! Then hit the marathon trail?
>
>
> Thanks, Teresa. Although I don't know why I keep getting credit for
> three races, instead of two. :-)
>
> As for "rest, eat" - sadly, I get to do one, but not the other. For
> me they are kind of mutually exclusive. :-(



28 Feb 2007 11:19:51
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Dan wrote:
> we cook sans wheat almost always

Ah, I didn't realize.

Why? Is Izzy your private nutritionist as well?



28 Feb 2007 12:04:24
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Doug wrote:
> Pendejo wrote:
>> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having
>> burned out from so much training.
>
> Stop beating the dead horse.

Oh, but I learned at the feet of my rec.running heroes, you and lance,
that an inanimate and rotting horse can be beaten until either the
entropy death of Usenet or one of the horse-beaters heeds his
political calling, whichever comes first. ;-p


> We'll see how long you hold the big miles before your life or
> body suggests you make some changes.

You have a point there.

I've been pretty whacked with this cold/sinus infection since Friday.
Didn't run a step Sat, Sun, or Mon, even though all my symptoms have
passed the "(in or) above the neck" test; it's just those symptoms
were bad enough, I really felt like neither running nor tempting fate.

Yesterday I finally went out for a very easy four miler. Legs felt
extra terrific with the rest, but I coughed a bunch, and though I'd
like to believe that was just the cool and polluted Brooklyn air in
February, I'm worried this damn thing is working its way into my
lungs.

Would I be suffering the same infection on half the training? Maybe,
maybe not.

Might I decide next week or over the summer that putting this much
time and focus into training is nuts, and crowding out other more
important life concerns? Or might life *demand* it in a more urgent
sense? Absolutely.


>> Here's another guess: some guys who have spent years competing at a
>> world or at least national class level just don't get super motivated
>> twenty years later to work their asses off to compete for AG honors at
>> their local races.
>
> I agree big time and admire those that continue to run but at pedestrian
> paces. All to many quit running altogether one they can't compete
> anymore. Type A's with big egos can't handle being once a runner so
> they take up dominoes and talk about the old days with double chins.

Best I can tell, *this* is the main reason fast guys stop running
altogether. Running can't also be about enjoyment for them, only
about proving one's worth by beating everyone else.

This, not the mileage itself, seems to me the reason so many of the
high-volume club quit running in later years. They'd give it up just
as surely if they kept some kind of lower volume, higher intensity
regimen. (And, best I can tell, though such a regimen seems to suit a
few, for many it wouldn't yield the same results and/or would present
a higher injury risk than higher volume with a lower ratio of fast
stuff...)



28 Feb 2007 20:43:15
Elflord
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On 2007-02-28, Charlie Pendejo <[email protected] > wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> Pendejo wrote:
>>> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having
>>> burned out from so much training.
>>
>> Stop beating the dead horse.
>
> Oh, but I learned at the feet of my rec.running heroes, you and lance,
> that an inanimate and rotting horse can be beaten

Or at least the pile of dust that used to be an inanimate and rotting horse.

Cheers,
--
Elflord


28 Feb 2007 10:10:50
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Doug Freese" <[email protected] > wrote

> I agree big time and admire those that continue to run but at pedestrian
> paces. All to many quit running altogether one they can't compete anymore.
> Type A's with big egos can't handle being once a runner so they take up
> dominoes and talk about the old days with double chins.

As you know, I try to have it both ways, competing *and* talking about the
old days :-)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



01 Mar 2007 00:14:26
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH <[email protected] > wrote:

>Hell of a training week. You are really getting in some quality
>speedwork. Those Yassos are a good sign for Paris.

I switched back to the schedule(1)(2) of my first marathons. It
concentrates on faster but shorter running. I now think of those 20x500m
at MP (in hailstorms) which I did when training for the last couple of
marathons with amazement, if not to say total incomprehension.

Anyway, I am deliberately "cheating" on my own convictions by running at
paces calculated by working back from a 2:48 (15kph) marathon. That means
I am supposed to have done a 36'15 10k and a 1:20 HM. All training paces
are based on that.

Today's 3x2000/800 was supposed to be at HM pace (3'47/k = 7'34/2k) but I
ran at HM effort (using HRM) and only managed 7'40/2k. OK that's only 3
secs per km but that makes 2 mins difference over the 42.

As for Yassos, that was just a near coincidence. The "Yasso protocol" is
10x800 with equal time jogged rest. So I should've done 2 more 800s and in
2:49 (granted, I would have had at least 30" more rest between but...)

OK I'm feeling hoopy about the idea of a PB, but a 2:48:10 will require me
to weigh 70kilos, fully "carbed-up". No way. The best I can hope is to get
back to the weight I was when I posted my drunken challenge :-P~

(1) Reiterating Charlie's words : I hope anders is OK.

(2) Go here and if the French is just to much, mail me
http://www.runirina.com/Runirina2007/c_4.htm
(hint: you can lie about eveything) Based on your real results, it
produces :
- a 12-week marathon schedule
- a 6-week HM schedule
- a 6-week 10k schedule
- a 2-week intermission/recovery schedule
- an idea of how to plan a whole running year

(3) She has a 2:30-ish marathon PB
http://www.runirina.com/Runirina2007/ik_album_perso.htm


01 Mar 2007 00:27:40
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH <[email protected] > wrote:

>36 miles, including a 10K (40:00 - PR) and a 5K (19:57).

Congrats on the PR. You've been winning AG's pretty regularly, but nothing
(in my - albeit small - mind) is better than a PR on a regular distance
and when you're past the standard "recreational runner's peak".

I'm far more impressed by your racing than I am by my training :-)


01 Mar 2007 00:05:18
Elflord
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On 2007-02-28, Doug Freese <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> "Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>> Dan wrote:
>>> Spooky how former 98% wava guys end up slower than slugs (in the
>>> world class realm) like you and me...
>>>
>>> You almost wonder if there's a curse associated with being so damn
>>> fast in one's youth...
>>
>> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having burned out
>> from so much training.
>
> Stop beating the dead horse. We'll see how long you hold the big miles
> before your life or body suggests you make some changes.

Oh dear. You're never one to pass down the opportunity to scowl and waggle
a finger (-; It's true that he'll probably get distracted by work or girls
soon enough, but until then, why not get in some miles ?

Cheers,
--
Elflord


28 Feb 2007 20:13:21
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Parker Race" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I hope John was OK later. I gave him an E-Gel but I'm not sure if he
> used it or not. Hopefully it had nothing to do with his stomach
> issues.

His problem was way too spicy mexican food the night before. He had a
case of the squitters

> I say let Uma joins us no matter how slow she is though, I'll
> volunteer to stay back with her!

Your gonna have to stand in line. On the 10th we will running past
Uma's mother's house. I keep dreaming she is visiting mom and comes out
to run with us. .

-Doug




28 Feb 2007 20:21:17
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Elflord" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Oh dear. You're never one to pass down the opportunity to scowl and
> waggle
> a finger (-; It's true that he'll probably get distracted by work or
> girls
> soon enough, but until then, why not get in some miles ?


Sir Charles and girls? I didn't think he had time between runs. ;)

-Doug




28 Feb 2007 16:15:00
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected]com > wrote

> Why? Is Izzy your private nutritionist as well?

I'll try and make these simultaneous equations understandable for the
layman:

Lynn = a bit of a Health nut.
Dan = one who obeys.

Lynn's best girlfriend and former roomate is Gluten intolerant. I think
that's what got the ball rolling, and it got worse when the blood type diet
book came out.

So far, everything works fine on my low-wheat regimen, and I have spelt
flakes as my ritual pre-race breakfast (with rice milk, of course).

Then I stop off after the race and get a Double-double from In-N-Out. :-)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



01 Mar 2007 06:32:25
Dot
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

steve common wrote:
>
> (1) Reiterating Charlie's words : I hope anders is OK.

I just noticed him over on r.s.nordic, although he hasn't posted much
there either and Finland doesn't seem to have much snow. Nordic Worlds
are on this week in Japan.

Dot

--
"A winner is just a loser who tried one more time." -Captain George M.
Moore, Jr., United States Air Force (retired),
http://www.avdlm.com/press.php?page=stories&storyid=1



28 Feb 2007 23:42:56
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Dan wrote:
> Lynn = a bit of a Health nut.
> Dan = one who obeys.

Got it.


> I have spelt flakes as my ritual pre-race breakfast (with
> rice milk, of course).

(checking cereal ingredients)

Looks like I'm a spelt and quinoa and kamut and oat and rice and
millet guy myself. And wheat. With almond milk.

But actually though I have a very routinized breakfast most every
other day (cereal with some fixins and a fried egg on toast), before a
race I keep it to just a banana and/or instant oats. I'm more
confident of my total digestive mastery over these.


> Then I stop off after the race and get a Double-double from In-N-Out.

Dammit, I forgot to get an In-N-Out this last trip west! You know we
don't have them out here, right?

Maybe just to confuse people, I'll start ordering everything here in
NYC restaurants "animal style". :-)



01 Mar 2007 00:47:39
anders
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On 1 maalis, 08:32, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net > wrote:


> I just noticed him over on r.s.nordic, although he hasn't posted much
> there either and Finland doesn't seem to have much snow. Nordic Worlds
> are on this week in Japan.

And the Norwegians aren't winning half of the events this winter! And
the Swedes are doing really poorly! There are some small pleasure in
my life left:-)

Anyway, thanks for not forgetting me completely - I had begun to
wonder, you know - my current problems lie in the general health area,
but they are not of the sort that would make me will my collection of
running shoes to any of you. I'll be back before you'll know it!


Anders (who did 1.5 hrs of granny-paced skiing on the sea ice
yesterday)




01 Mar 2007 11:21:58
Anthony
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"anders" <[email protected] > wrote in message > And the Norwegians aren't
winning half of the events this winter! And
>
> Anyway, thanks for not forgetting me completely - I had begun to
> wonder, you know - my current problems lie in the general health area,
> but they are not of the sort that would make me will my collection of
> running shoes to any of you. I'll be back before you'll know it!

Good to hear! Hope to see you back on the sub-3 trail soon! ;-)

Anthony.




01 Mar 2007 09:41:07
Dot
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

anders wrote:
> On 1 maalis, 08:32, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I just noticed him over on r.s.nordic, although he hasn't posted much
>>there either and Finland doesn't seem to have much snow. Nordic Worlds
>>are on this week in Japan.
>
>
> And the Norwegians aren't winning half of the events this winter! And
> the Swedes are doing really poorly! There are some small pleasure in
> my life left:-)

Speak of the devil :)

I'll have to admit I had to look in our local paper to see what "15k"
all the hubbub was about. Several Alaskans in worlds.

>
> Anyway, thanks for not forgetting me completely - I had begun to
> wonder, you know - my current problems lie in the general health area,
> but they are not of the sort that would make me will my collection of
> running shoes to any of you. I'll be back before you'll know it!

Here's hoping so.


> Anders (who did 1.5 hrs of granny-paced skiing on the sea ice
> yesterday)

Is that the only thing you have resembling snow?

Dot

--
"A winner is just a loser who tried one more time." -Captain George M.
Moore, Jr., United States Air Force (retired),
http://www.avdlm.com/press.php?page=stories&storyid=1



01 Mar 2007 06:05:57
Doug Freese
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Doug wrote:
>> Pendejo wrote:
>>> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having
>>> burned out from so much training.
> I've been pretty whacked with this cold/sinus infection since Friday.
> Didn't run a step Sat, Sun, or Mon, even though all my symptoms have
> passed the "(in or) above the neck" test; it's just those symptoms
> were bad enough, I really felt like neither running nor tempting fate.
>
> Yesterday I finally went out for a very easy four miler. Legs felt
> extra terrific with the rest, but I coughed a bunch, and though I'd
> like to believe that was just the cool and polluted Brooklyn air in
> February, I'm worried this damn thing is working its way into my
> lungs.

Are goobs you're coughing up coming from up from your chest or down from
your sinus? I tend to clam a lot in cold weather.

> Would I be suffering the same infection on half the training? Maybe,
> maybe not.

It's too hard to tell whether your resistance is low or the people you
come in contact with are sporting industrial strength bugs or both.


> Best I can tell, *this* is the main reason fast guys stop running
> altogether. Running can't also be about enjoyment for them, only
> about proving one's worth by beating everyone else.

I'll bet we have some candidates right here on wretched.running. :)

-Doug









01 Mar 2007 07:40:41
anders
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On 1 maalis, 11:41, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net > wrote:


> I'll have to admit I had to look in our local paper to see what "15k"
> all the hubbub was about. Several Alaskans in worlds.

Kikkan Randall and who else?

(For all those whose local paper doesn't cover the events in such
exotic sports as cross country skiing: a wet, heavy and very Japanese
snowfall commenced about 30 minutes into the 15k interval - 30s
between skiers - start race, i.e. just when the unseeded competitors
had almost finished their race and the top seeded were yet to begin.
Most notable in the quite unusual looking result list was Leanid
Karneyenka, a complete unknown from Belarus who ended up with the
silver medal. During the press conference the 19-year-old was,
naturally enough, asked "Who are you? to which he replied, with great
aplomb and in a kind of Slavic English: "I'm people".)


> Is that the only thing you have resembling snow?

It isn't as bad as start even on the southern coast - where 99% of
what should've been snow has come down as rain - but the thing about
skiing on the sea ice is that one doesn't get too many uphills (which
I, in my present condition, stil like to avoid).


Anders



01 Mar 2007 15:56:39
Robert Grumbine
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

In article <[email protected] >,
anders <[email protected] > wrote:
>On 1 maalis, 11:41, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote:
>
[snip]

>> Is that the only thing you have resembling snow?
>
>It isn't as bad as start even on the southern coast - where 99% of
>what should've been snow has come down as rain - but the thing about
>skiing on the sea ice is that one doesn't get too many uphills (which
>I, in my present condition, stil like to avoid).

Which ice were you on? Baltic Sea, White Sea, Lake Vanern, ...

I'm surprised there's skiable ice by you (aside from lakes,
at least). This hasn't been a heavy ice year near Finland, from
what I see at http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/ice/Analyses.html

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences


01 Mar 2007 18:51:09
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Charlie Pendejo
[email protected] wrote...
>
>Dan wrote:
>> we cook sans wheat almost always
>
>Ah, I didn't realize.
>
>Why? Is Izzy your private nutritionist as well?

That'd be Iggy, diminutive for the illustrious Ignoramus, if
you'll recall.

Izzy was a fuzzy blue puppet, official mascot of the 1996 Atlanta
Olympics. The Olympics marathon route through downtown Atlanta
had a blue line painted on the road for the runners to follow.
After the conclusion of the less-than-popular Olympics, that blue
line became locally known as "that's where they dragged Izzy's ass
out of town".



[Anybody else had usenet trouble yesterday? That's the third time
I'm trying to post that. In case all three posts eventually
appear, I made edits and improvements with each attempted post.]



01 Mar 2007 03:13:11
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote
> Dan wrote:

>> we cook sans wheat almost always
>
> Ah, I didn't realize.
>
> Why? Is Izzy your private nutritionist as well?

Iggy. Izzy was the official blue puppet mascot of the 1996
Olympics in Atlanta. The Olympics marathon route through the
downtown Atlanta had a blue line painted on the road for the
runners to follow. After those less-than-successful Olympics
ended, that blue line became locally known as "That's where they
dragged Izzy's ass out of town.".






--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



01 Mar 2007 11:55:18
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Dan wrote:
>> we cook sans wheat almost always
>
> Ah, I didn't realize.
>
> Why? Is Izzy your private nutritionist as well?

Iggy. Izzy was the official blue puppet mascot of the 1996 Olympics
in Atlanta. The Olympics marathon route through the downtown Atlanta
had a blue line painted on the road for the runners to follow. After
the less-than-successful Olympics, that blue line became locally
known as "that's where they dragged Izzy's ass out of town".


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



01 Mar 2007 14:26:36
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Charlie Pendejo wrote:
> Doug wrote:
>> Pendejo wrote:
>>> I imagine Noakes and Doug would like to blame it on having
>>> burned out from so much training.
>> Stop beating the dead horse.
>
> Oh, but I learned at the feet of my rec.running heroes, you and lance,
> that an inanimate and rotting horse can be beaten until either the
> entropy death of Usenet or one of the horse-beaters heeds his
> political calling, whichever comes first. ;-p
>
>
>> We'll see how long you hold the big miles before your life or
>> body suggests you make some changes.
>
> You have a point there.
>
> I've been pretty whacked with this cold/sinus infection since Friday.
> Didn't run a step Sat, Sun, or Mon, even though all my symptoms have
> passed the "(in or) above the neck" test; it's just those symptoms
> were bad enough, I really felt like neither running nor tempting fate.
>
> Yesterday I finally went out for a very easy four miler. Legs felt
> extra terrific with the rest, but I coughed a bunch, and though I'd
> like to believe that was just the cool and polluted Brooklyn air in
> February, I'm worried this damn thing is working its way into my
> lungs.

Hopefully if nothing else, it's been incentive to stay away from the
cancer sticks.


01 Mar 2007 19:31:59
Dot
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

anders wrote:
> On 1 maalis, 11:41, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I'll have to admit I had to look in our local paper to see what "15k"
>>all the hubbub was about. Several Alaskans in worlds.
>
>
> Kikkan Randall and who else?

Lars Flora and James Southam were in the 15k - half of the US contingent
in that race. Apparently they started just as the snow was coming
through. Those are the only names I've seen, but Erik Flora, Lars's
brother, is sometimes in the international events and several others on
the national circuit. We've also got a couple biathletes frequently on
the international circuit, but I think they've got their own races.

I don't follow them so much as just look at what's in the paper and will
read the xc skiing stuff. Several of the trail races I run support
various xc ski teams - 2 universities and Alaskan Winter Olympians (all
winter sports, not just the xc skiing for the Olympics). A new mountain
running race will help local hs xc ski team. Many competitive runners
are also competitive xc skiers.

One of the local universities (Alaska Pacific U. = APU) has a
competitive ski pgm that includes those beyond the student level. They
turn out quite a few skiiers, including Kikkan Randall, that can compete
at national and some at international level.

>
> (For all those whose local paper doesn't cover the events in such
> exotic sports as cross country skiing: a wet, heavy and very Japanese
> snowfall commenced about 30 minutes into the 15k interval - 30s
> between skiers - start race, i.e. just when the unseeded competitors
> had almost finished their race and the top seeded were yet to begin.
> Most notable in the quite unusual looking result list was Leanid
> Karneyenka, a complete unknown from Belarus who ended up with the
> silver medal. During the press conference the 19-year-old was,
> naturally enough, asked "Who are you? to which he replied, with great
> aplomb and in a kind of Slavic English: "I'm people".)

That's for the explanation. I was assuming it was some such starting
scheme but didn't know the details. (hazards of lurking)

>
>
>>Is that the only thing you have resembling snow?
>
>
> It isn't as bad as start even on the southern coast - where 99% of
> what should've been snow has come down as rain - but the thing about
> skiing on the sea ice is that one doesn't get too many uphills (which
> I, in my present condition, stil like to avoid).

Bummer about the rain.:( Hope you heal quickly but don't rush things.


We've had one of the best years I can remember for snow, at least early
in the year. No big dumps but it came down every few days in 3-8 inch
snowfalls and temperatures were near 0F (well, closer to 0F or below,
than to 20F) for 5 or 6 wks so it was hard to get a packed base on
anything that hadn't had a machine go over it that day - whether
groomers or snowmachines. We had a major meltdown about 3-4 wks ago, so
we now have base on all the trails (don't fall off them though) and rock
hard where they've groomed. Great for running. I did get out for several
decent skis when the snow was soft - it was more like running, than
running was since I needed a high knee lift in the soft snow when
running or hiking.

I can relate to sea ice without hills. One of the few places I get to do
long flat runs is on the frozen swamps in winter. Flat uses different
muscles than hills, so that stride seldom gets used for any length of
time except now.


Take care and heal.

Dot

--
"A winner is just a loser who tried one more time." -Captain George M.
Moore, Jr., United States Air Force (retired),
http://www.avdlm.com/press.php?page=stories&storyid=1



01 Mar 2007 13:48:21
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Parker wrote:
> Pendejo wrote:
>> [Waaahhh! I've got a sinus infection and my lungs are maybe
>> starting to itch! I'm not running these days! Waaahhh!]
>
> Hopefully if nothing else, it's been incentive to stay away
> from the cancer sticks.

Thanks for the thought, PR.

In fact, yeah, I haven't even been thinking of them. Truly, I believe
I'm permanently retired from smoking as of December 06. I think that
"Easy Way" book was the last piece in my personal puzzle.

Flip side is, I've got this strong instinct to eat everything in
sight, which I bet comes largely from no running + no smoking = no
serotonin boost.



02 Mar 2007 01:06:50
anders
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007































> Which ice were you on? Baltic Sea, White Sea, Lake Vanern, ...

Gulf of Finland - one could ski out for maybe 50km (were it not for
the ship lanes), 5 cm of solid ice is safe enough and there's up to 20
cm by now (thanks to a very late bout of really cold temperature).
http://www.fimr.fi/en.html
OTOH one largish bay was just enough for me...


> I'm surprised there's skiable ice by you (aside from lakes,
> at least). This hasn't been a heavy ice year near Finland, from
> what I see athttp://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/ice/Analyses.html

That's true: at this point during a normal winter one could
theoretically ski across to Estonia (and wild animals, such as wild
boars often do).



Anders




02 Mar 2007 08:14:41
Parker Race
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Parker wrote:
>> Pendejo wrote:
>>> [Waaahhh! I've got a sinus infection and my lungs are maybe
>>> starting to itch! I'm not running these days! Waaahhh!]
>>
>> Hopefully if nothing else, it's been incentive to stay away
>> from the cancer sticks.
>
> Thanks for the thought, PR.
>
> In fact, yeah, I haven't even been thinking of them. Truly, I believe
> I'm permanently retired from smoking as of December 06. I think that
> "Easy Way" book was the last piece in my personal puzzle.
>
> Flip side is, I've got this strong instinct to eat everything in
> sight, which I bet comes largely from no running + no smoking = no
> serotonin boost.
>

I haven't smoked in twenty years and I have the same problem when I can't
workout.
I dread being sick just because of that.




02 Mar 2007 07:14:33
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Parker wrote:
> Pendejo wrote:
>> I've got this strong instinct to eat everything in sight
>
> I have the same problem when I can't workout.
> I dread being sick just because of that.

Well the solution is clear enough: we runners need to time our
bronchitises and knee injuries to coincide with our stomach flus and
food poisonings!



02 Mar 2007 08:24:22
gym.gravity
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Feb 25, 9:43 pm, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> 58.00 respiratorily infected toward the end miles, as
>
> Mo AM: 4.50 easy
> PM: 4.15 easy; temp 20F
>
> Tu AM: 11.00 quick edge of easy; 45F - shorts!
> PM: 4.15 easy
>
> We AM: 10.15 with 10x40-45" hard + one 3' hill 5k effort; with the
> warmer weather I'd hoped to run 200m repeats on my local
> track, but it was thoroughly flooded. Aimed for similar
> workout on the roads, uphill where practical.
> PM: 4.45 recovery
>
> Th AM: 7.50 with 3.35 @ tempo
> PM: 5.95 recovery; last of six conscutive runs in shorts
>
> Fr AM: 6.15 easy; winter is back for the moment
>
> Sa --- Bailed on 4M race because Friday's cold (throat, sinus)
> kept getting worse, and then insomnia struck. One or
> the other, maybe I'd still race, but not with both.
>
> Su --- Cold still hanging on; what the hell, another day off
> won't kill me.
>
> year to date: 626 miles
>
> upcoming
> --------
> 11 Mar: 4M or 15k
> 1 Apr: 10k (Scotland Run)
> 14 Apr: Brooklyn 21k

hey charlie, did you say you recently quit smoking? I



02 Mar 2007 08:56:26
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

gym.gravity wrote:
> Pendejo wrote:
>> Sa --- Bailed on 4M race because Friday's cold (throat, sinus)
>
> hey charlie, did you say you recently quit smoking? I

That an abrupt ending, gg.

I did quit, for the Nth and final time, in early December.

If you were going to conclude something like "always perversely got a
cold / respiratory infection shortly after quitting smoking," then
yeah, that's often been my experience too. But this time it's been
two and a half months.



02 Mar 2007 09:52:53
gym.gravity
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

On Mar 2, 11:56 am, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> gym.gravity wrote:
> > Pendejo wrote:
> >> Sa --- Bailed on 4M race because Friday's cold (throat, sinus)
>
> > hey charlie, did you say you recently quit smoking? I
>
> That an abrupt ending, gg.
>
> I did quit, for the Nth and final time, in early December.
>
> If you were going to conclude something like "always perversely got a
> cold / respiratory infection shortly after quitting smoking," then
> yeah, that's often been my experience too. But this time it's been
> two and a half months.

nah, just thinking about what it might feel like. Wondering how it
would effect you...

The carbon monoxide sticks to hemoglobin so strongly that it has a
similar effect to living at altitude...it raises hematocrit. Have you
ever felt extra strong when you didn't smoke 4-5 hours before a run
compared other runs? The half life of carboxyhemoglobin is 1-2 hours
in a healty person.



02 Mar 2007 18:10:39
Robert Grumbine
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

In article <[email protected] >,
anders <[email protected] > wrote:
>
>> Which ice were you on? Baltic Sea, White Sea, Lake Vanern, ...
>
>Gulf of Finland - one could ski out for maybe 50km (were it not for
>the ship lanes), 5 cm of solid ice is safe enough and there's up to 20
>cm by now (thanks to a very late bout of really cold temperature).
>http://www.fimr.fi/en.html
> OTOH one largish bay was just enough for me...

:-) Yes, 5 cm is good, at least if it's solid ice vs. haurasta
(Finnish for rotten ice, according to the site). I'm conservative,
though, and would like more like 10 cm before venturing onto ice.
At a meter, they land C-130s, iirc.

>That's true: at this point during a normal winter one could
>theoretically ski across to Estonia (and wild animals, such as wild
>boars often do).

Thanks for the link. Interesting maps and a nice presentation.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences


02 Mar 2007 19:43:13
Dot
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Robert Grumbine wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> anders <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Which ice were you on? Baltic Sea, White Sea, Lake Vanern, ...
>>
>>Gulf of Finland - one could ski out for maybe 50km (were it not for
>>the ship lanes), 5 cm of solid ice is safe enough and there's up to 20
>>cm by now (thanks to a very late bout of really cold temperature).
>>http://www.fimr.fi/en.html
>>OTOH one largish bay was just enough for me...
>
>
> :-) Yes, 5 cm is good, at least if it's solid ice vs. haurasta
> (Finnish for rotten ice, according to the site). I'm conservative,
> though, and would like more like 10 cm before venturing onto ice.
> At a meter, they land C-130s, iirc.

:) When I was a kid in mid-Atlantic states, we used to skate (ice skate,
not ski skate) as long as ice was about 5cm, maybe a little thicker -
but keep an eye out for weaker spots. Up here, they generally go with
closer to 60cm (or maybe 30cm) - but they'll drive pickups on the ice
for ice fishing, clearing snow off for skating or making ice road, have
parties, etc. Loads are much greater up here. Spring is here when the
first truck falls in.

Dot

--
"The goal is training and adaptation, not destruction and injury."
- John Hardy
http://www.mountainrunning.coolrunning.com.au/misc/training.shtml



01 Mar 2007 17:57:46
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"steve common" <[email protected] > wrote

Some nice work this week, Steve.

> I switched back to the schedule(1)(2) of my first marathons. It
> concentrates on faster but shorter running. I now think of those 20x500m
> at MP (in hailstorms) which I did when training for the last couple of
> marathons with amazement, if not to say total incomprehension.

Thank God I never heard that nonsense when I was coming up. The whole thing
is pretty simple, just look at how the best in the world train:

Half recovery-type runs (MP + 1:30-2:30 min/mile for mortals, 1:00-2:00/mile
for world class guys)
About 10-15% overspeed (from 10k pace to 1500 pace, mix according to taste,
I like 5k and 10k races to be part of this)
The rest hill running, and medium (close to MP efforts). at 80-85% max
heartrate.

It's not rocket science, and all these finicky schedules drive me nuts,
although if you're inexperienced and haven't learned your own hard/easy
balance, I suppose it's alot better than nothing.

> Anyway, I am deliberately "cheating" on my own convictions by running at
> paces calculated by working back from a 2:48 (15kph) marathon. That means
> I am supposed to have done a 36'15 10k and a 1:20 HM. All training paces
> are based on that.

Are you gonna run some 5 or 10k's and get calibrated? (You'll run a :30 to
1:00 slower 10k if not tapered)

> Today's 3x2000/800 was supposed to be at HM pace (3'47/k = 7'34/2k) but I
> ran at HM effort (using HRM) and only managed 7'40/2k. OK that's only 3
> secs per km but that makes 2 mins difference over the 42.

I'm fatalistic about paces -- you can only run the workouts based on how you
feel. Push too hard and you dig yourself a hole. I run shorter races to
calibrate my aspirations, and track my progress (or lack thereof) from week
to week on my benchmark workouts and test races.

> As for Yassos, that was just a near coincidence. The "Yasso protocol" is
> 10x800 with equal time jogged rest. So I should've done 2 more 800s and in
> 2:49 (granted, I would have had at least 30" more rest between but...)

Well, since I assume you weren't rested for them, you are probably already
in sub-3 shape. The issue is now by how much...

> OK I'm feeling hoopy about the idea of a PB, but a 2:48:10 will require me
> to weigh 70kilos, fully "carbed-up". No way. The best I can hope is to get
> back to the weight I was when I posted my drunken challenge :-P~

Why is it that we can dutifully do all manner of tough, disciplined workouts
rain or shine, jet-lagged, hurting, sick, and injured -- and yet the hardest
thing seems to be to lose 4 kilos?

-- Dan (who's *still* 8 lbs heavier than in the halcyon days)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



02 Mar 2007 21:47:40
I2Run
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

| Why is it that we can dutifully do all manner of tough, disciplined
workouts
| rain or shine, jet-lagged, hurting, sick, and injured -- and yet the
hardest
| thing seems to be to lose 4 kilos?
|
| -- Dan (who's *still* 8 lbs heavier than in the halcyon days)

If you already didn't know, it is craving for food and more of it.
For some, additional craving for booze. :-)




02 Mar 2007 15:41:57
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

gym.gravity wrote:
>
> The carbon monoxide sticks to hemoglobin so strongly that it has a
> similar effect to living at altitude...it raises hematocrit.

great. soon we will get to read in the paper about some crazy runner
(mark h, i'm looking in your direction..) wearing a snowsuit and running
down a main highway in 120 degree summer weather, dripping sweat, and
every so often stopping to take a hit off of a car's exhaust pipe,
mumbling something about how he's "altitude training" just before he
passes out into a ditch.

greatgreatgreat..
h


03 Mar 2007 01:31:18
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"anders" <[email protected] > wrote:

>skiing on the sea ice is that one doesn't get too many uphills

Which is why Swedes don't ever go water-skiing, right? They can't find any
sloping lakes... <replace "swede" by your favoroute neighbour/ethnic
minority >


03 Mar 2007 00:40:52
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"anders" <[email protected] > wrote

> That's true: at this point during a normal winter one could
> theoretically ski across to Estonia (and wild animals, such as
> wild boars often do).

What a country -- even the wild boars can ski. No wonder the Finns do
so well at the Olympics.


03 Mar 2007 00:42:31
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

h squared said...

>great. soon we will get to read in the paper about some crazy
>runner (mark h, i'm looking in your direction..) wearing a
>snowsuit and running down a main highway in 120 degree summer
>weather, dripping sweat,

That's been done. Benji Durden, a 2:09 marathoner, trained this
way when he lived in Stone Mountain (near checkpoint five of the
Athens to Atlanta skate race). There is a letsrun thread a few
years back where Benji described this technique in detail (can be
found at letsrun forum). There is also reference to the training
in this Running Times article
http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=6998&page=1

>and every so often stopping to take a hit off of a car's exhaust
>pipe, mumbling something about how he's "altitude training" just
>before he passes out into a ditch.

Contrary to the impression you may have gained, my training is
very ordinary. I can't do anything as insane as 100 mile weeks,
tens of thousands of feet of elevation gains, or blazing track
sessions, like some of the local rr hardcores. I wish I could,
but all I can manage is to poke along at a measly 10 mpm for
my 50 mile weeks, although lately 30 miles mean a big week. I
tend to confine all my "craziness" to frequent racing and to the
subsequent sharing of my results and experiences.

Having said that, I'll have to admit I have been considering
converting one of the bedrooms to an altitude chamber -- but
that's another story.


02 Mar 2007 16:43:32
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Hutch wrote:
> What a country -- even the wild boars can ski.

And trust me, the Finnish wild boars speak better English than our
American ones!



03 Mar 2007 04:15:31
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote:

>It's not rocket science

Agreed. Though the US way of planning stuff around variations from "MP"
seem to be more like voodoo than physiology - to me anyway.

>Are you gonna run some 5 or 10k's and get calibrated? (You'll run a :30 to
>1:00 slower 10k if not tapered)

If 5k's existed over here, I'd be doing them. General race organiser
thinking is that no-one will turn up if it's not a 10k (at least).

I have a 10k race planned for 3 weeks before D-day, and a HM 5 weeks out
(soon!)

>I'm fatalistic about paces -- you can only run the workouts based on how you
>feel

Agreed again. I've been trying to do the "right" paces, but I don't go
harder than one or two bpm above what I think is the right hear rate
(effort) for the workout.

If it's MP I'll do around 161-165bpm. HM pace is 170-173bpm. If it's 10k
pace, I'll stay at 179-181bpm.

Hence my few seconds "slower" than required to do my target pace, these
last weeks.

>Well, since I assume you weren't rested for them, you are probably already
>in sub-3 shape. The issue is now by how much...

I figure I'm in 2:54 shape at the mo'. If I can shed enough kilos to get
to my 2002 race weight (68kg), I could maybe even tease the club masters
record (2h44)

>Why is it that we can dutifully do all manner of tough, disciplined workouts
>rain or shine, jet-lagged, hurting, sick, and injured -- and yet the hardest
>thing seems to be to lose 4 kilos?

If you find the answer for me, and if it works on me before the fall
marathon season, you win a free dinner plus Armagnac(1) from that sky-high
restaurant in SF (I think it's the highest one, but can't remember the
name... :-)

(1) Like Cognac, only much better


02 Mar 2007 21:23:33
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] > wrote

> Flip side is, I've got this strong instinct to eat everything in
> sight, which I bet comes largely from no running + no smoking = no
> serotonin boost.

Prozac, baby! :-)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



03 Mar 2007 08:53:49
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

Dan wrote:
> Pendejo wrote:
>> Flip side is, I've got this strong instinct to eat everything in
>> sight, which I bet comes largely from no running + no smoking =
>> no serotonin boost.
>
> Prozac, baby! :-)

Testosterone, Prozac... you sound like Alberto Saladbar! ;-p



04 Mar 2007 10:35:42
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH wrote:

> There is also reference to the training
> in this Running Times article
> http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=6998&page=1

with all due respect to him (and you) it seems a little, er, crazy :) i
notice in that article that he wasn't able to convince other people to
do it more than once or so..just don't hurt yourself with heat
stroke/exhaustion :(

i don't remember anything much about the a2a course, except-
- how can i get out of this without being stuck alone in the middle of
nowhere, ga?
- when will these hills end? up..down..up..down..(4 hours later)
up..down..up..
- boy oh boy do i sure have to peeeee!

so i don't remember stone mountain, specifically.

>>and every so often stopping to take a hit off of a car's exhaust
>>pipe, mumbling something about how he's "altitude training" just
>>before he passes out into a ditch.
>
>
> Contrary to the impression you may have gained, my training is
> very ordinary. I can't do anything as insane as 100 mile weeks,
> tens of thousands of feet of elevation gains, or blazing track
> sessions, like some of the local rr hardcores. I wish I could,
> but all I can manage is to poke along at a measly 10 mpm for
> my 50 mile weeks, although lately 30 miles mean a big week. I
> tend to confine all my "craziness" to frequent racing and to the
> subsequent sharing of my results and experiences.

running two consecutive races on the weekend is crazy enough. (not
disapprovin, just sayin...)

hh


05 Mar 2007 01:04:41
Phil M.
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] wrote:

> MarkH wrote:
>
>> There is also reference to the training
>> in this Running Times article
>> http://www.runningtimes.com/rt/articles/?id=6998&page=1
>
> with all due respect to him (and you) it seems a little, er, crazy :) i
> notice in that article that he wasn't able to convince other people to
> do it more than once or so..just don't hurt yourself with heat
> stroke/exhaustion :(
>
> i don't remember anything much about the a2a course, except-
> - how can i get out of this without being stuck alone in the middle of
> nowhere, ga?

Whatch it pal. I happen to live at the 55 mile mark. ;-) There was a post
on here a few years ago from one of the RDs of the race. He was considering
adding a running event.

--
Phil M.


05 Mar 2007 17:48:45
Robert Grumbine
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

In article <[email protected] >,
steve common <[email protected] > wrote:
>"D Stumpus" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>It's not rocket science
>
>Agreed. Though the US way of planning stuff around variations from "MP"
>seem to be more like voodoo than physiology - to me anyway.

:-)

Where I think it gets especially questionable is when it is listed
as so many second per mile from MP. 30 seconds per mile slower than
MP is a much easier effort level when MP is 5:00/mile than 12:00/mile.

Any more, I think it should be more based on percentage of the
pace of interest, if one has to be working from pace. This is,
effectly, part of how the Benson tables Dot cites routinely are
computed.


Good luck on that 2:48. And remember that your weight is not
the only factor! I'd hate to see you back off because the scale,
rather than your heart or legs, told you to.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences


03 Mar 2007 17:08:31
D Stumpus
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007


"steve common" <[email protected] > wrote

> If 5k's existed over here, I'd be doing them. General race organiser
> thinking is that no-one will turn up if it's not a 10k (at least).

That's the advantage we have in the good old Fat-n-Happy USA -- 5k's work
for the average tubby adult here.

> I have a 10k race planned for 3 weeks before D-day, and a HM 5 weeks out
> (soon!)

I will say it again: for the average Joe Runner running less than 100+ mpw,
a HM is destructive, a place where you use up your laboriously earned
training chips; it's not training. With a 5-10k, you're back into the swing
of things in 3-4 days. Been there, done that. Ask CP, I may have nudged
him over to my position by now..

HM's seem to be goal races these day, and if that's your goal, do it; but
don't expect it to be a stepping stone to a fast marathon in a few weeks...

> If it's MP I'll do around 161-165bpm. HM pace is 170-173bpm. If it's 10k
> pace, I'll stay at 179-181bpm.

As I've aged, my pace per heartbeat hasn't changed much -- but my max
heartrate has. I can only muster 160 or so for a HM when I'm really
motivated, as opposed to 180 back in the day...

> If you find the answer for me, and if it works on me before the fall
> marathon season, you win a free dinner plus Armagnac(1) from that sky-high
> restaurant in SF (I think it's the highest one, but can't remember the
> name... :-)

You're on: Eat 400 fewer calories/day for 6-7 weeks. You'll be grumpy and
your runs will suck for awhile, until the weight loss bumps your pace up.
Give me a heads up so I can plan the trip to SFO :-)




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



06 Mar 2007 02:18:50
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

"D Stumpus" <[email protected] > wrote:

>I will say it again: for the average Joe Runner running less than 100+ mpw,
>a HM is destructive, a place where you use up your laboriously earned
>training chips; it's not training.

Agreed. Hence the 5-weeks out and not particularly tapered, nor full-out
(it's at the end of a "recovery" week, after the preceding 3-week ramp-up
= 20miler yesterday)

>As I've aged, my pace per heartbeat hasn't changed much -- but my max
>heartrate has. I can only muster 160 or so for a HM when I'm really
>motivated, as opposed to 180 back in the day...

Mine hasn't started to shift down again yet. Tho I will have to
re-evaluate HRmax down from 188 (observed two year ago during
cross-country season) cuz I never get over 183 in training - so I figure
I'm at 184-85 max at the mo'.

But that won't change training heart rates more than by 2 bpm, soooooo.

>You're on: Eat 400 fewer calories/day for 6-7 weeks. You'll be grumpy and
>your runs will suck for awhile, until the weight loss bumps your pace up.

Hang on. My race is 15 April ie in 6 weeks = > 400 kcals * 7 days * 6 weeks
or 16 800kcal (we'll exclude 3 days of carbo-loading).

Now if we say 1kg = 7kcal (fat-rich mix of muscle/fat + alcohol), that
makes my 4kg of ber-blubber turn into around 28 000kcals = > I can't do it
in 6 weeks on -400kcals/day.

So if life sucks already on -400/day, what's it gonna be like on -666.66
recurring per day?! :-P

Best I can hope is to get to pre target-announcement weight, but fully
carbed-up (72k). That or starve missen rotten, to the point of killing my
wife and a few dozen other assholes at work, who have been asking for it
for years <cheesy grin >

>Give me a heads up so I can plan the trip to SFO :-)

Either way, when I get to the states the next time, someone has to turn up
for a slap up dinner. Preferably several of you - I'll organise it better
next time. Potential landing sites are, so far and in alphabetical order:
- Atlanta
- Austin
- Boston
- Florida (where?!)
- LA
- NYC
- Raleigh
- Redmond (can't get closer to Alaska than that, for work ;-)
- SF


06 Mar 2007 02:23:50
steve common
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

[email protected] (Robert Grumbine) wrote:

> Any more, I think it should be more based on percentage of the
>pace of interest, if one has to be working from pace. This is,
>effectly, part of how the Benson tables Dot cites routinely are
>computed.

Yep. That sounds perfectly reasonable.

> Good luck on that 2:48. And remember that your weight is not
>the only factor! I'd hate to see you back off because the scale,
>rather than your heart or legs, told you to.

Ho hum. Head and heart say they know they could, but work, blubber round
the guts and alcohol addiction (the second being largely maintained by the
latter) are getting in the way.

We'll see. I still have in my mind to go out at 4'/k whatever the form
(within reason) and see where it leads me...


06 Mar 2007 02:11:25
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

h squared said...
>
>with all due respect to him (and you) it seems a little, er,
>crazy :) i notice in that article that he wasn't able to convince
>other people to do it more than once or so..just don't hurt
>yourself with heat stroke/exhaustion :(

Nonsense. I don't recall ever endorsing Benji's heat training
ideas in any of my posts. In fact, in a previous post on this
particular topic, this is what I said:

"I've also seen him pop up on the letsrun forum. That's where I
learned about his interesting approach to simulating altitude
running - overheat the core by running in triple sweats in the
middle of a Georgia summer. Must have been quite a sight. I'm
not sure I'm ready to try that, but it did teach me that it's OK
to overheat on training runs. I used to treat winter training
runs like races - if you are comfortable at the start, you're
overdressed. So I'd suffer for the first couple of miles until I
warmed up. But now I dress warmly enough to be comfortable right
from the beginning, knowing I might actually be benefiting from a
bit of extra sweating."

What part of that response would you characterize as leading me to
a possible "heat stroke/exhaustion"?

>i don't remember anything much about the a2a course, except- -
>how can i get out of this without being stuck alone in the middle
>of nowhere, ga? - when will these hills end?
>up..down..up..down..(4 hours later) up..down..up.. - boy oh boy
>do i sure have to peeeee!
>
>so i don't remember stone mountain, specifically.

Was anyone demanding that you remember Stone Mountain? I simply
mentioned where Benji lived in relation to the race aid station.
No need to get all huffy over that.

It's unfortunate you did not have a positive experience with the
race, those things do happen sometimes. But I'd guess that your
need to characterize the race (and the state) in such a "graceful"
way reveals something of your personality. Not so sure that's
worthy of worship status anymore.

>running two consecutive races on the weekend is crazy enough.
>(not disapprovin, just sayin...)

Why is that crazy? Because you don't happen to do it that way?

Georgia has the most extensive Grand Prix running program in the
country. We have over 320 annual events in the program, from 5Ks
to marathons, with hundreds of runners actively participating.

Last year, despite winning my age group in most of the 47 races I
entered, I ended up 16th for the year in the Grand Prix standings.
There were many runners who entered between 80 and 120 races
during the year. Since these races are organized primarily on
weekends, the only way you can do well on the Grand Prix circuit
is to run multiple races on many weekends.

Quite a few of the folks who ended up high in the final GP
standings do not compete for the top AG spots. Nevertheless, they
seem to get considerable enjoyment from frequently testing their
physical abilities against other runners, gauging their progress
against the clock, and maintaining contact with the running
community.

Frequent racers may not meet with your approval (and if it gives
you a sense accomplishment, feel free to consider them to be
"crazy"), but I respect and greatly admire their dedication to
promoting and sustaining the great sport of running.


06 Mar 2007 09:18:25
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH wrote:

> Nonsense. I don't recall ever endorsing Benji's heat training
> ideas in any of my posts. In fact, in a previous post on this
> particular topic, this is what I said:
>
> "I've also seen him pop up on the letsrun forum. That's where I
> learned about his interesting approach to simulating altitude
> running - overheat the core by running in triple sweats in the
> middle of a Georgia summer. Must have been quite a sight. I'm
> not sure I'm ready to try that, but it did teach me that it's OK
> to overheat on training runs. I used to treat winter training
> runs like races - if you are comfortable at the start, you're
> overdressed. So I'd suffer for the first couple of miles until I
> warmed up. But now I dress warmly enough to be comfortable right
> from the beginning, knowing I might actually be benefiting from a
> bit of extra sweating."
>
> What part of that response would you characterize as leading me to
> a possible "heat stroke/exhaustion"?

i'm sorry, let me apologize. i didn't actually ever truly think you
would ever fall into a ditch from heat exhaustion and carbon monoxide
poisoning. it was a funny mental image to me, but it isn't fair of me to
make fun of you (even in a friendly way) if you don't like it, so i'll stop.

more generally, i don't really care how you or anyone runs or how they
train, and i expect everyone feels the same way about me, mostly. that's
one reason why i like doing this stuff- at work things have to be done a
certain way and at home i am responsible for a child and a man and three
dogs and all the cooking cleaning laundry shopping activities that life
demands, so i like having an activity where what i do doesn't matter,
and to be honest i don't have enough energy to care how others train and
race. so go ahead and aim for that ditch! (oops, i did it again. "no
more teasing mark!!" sorrysorrysorry)


> Was anyone demanding that you remember Stone Mountain? I simply
> mentioned where Benji lived in relation to the race aid station.
> No need to get all huffy over that.

:)

it's ok, i wasn't feeling huffy, i'm sorry i sounded that way, didn't
mean to mislead you. you mentioned the area and since i have been thru
there i felt like i should say something about it, so i told you what i
remember. if only phil had come out to wave at me at the 50-ish mile
mark i would have something more than terror (downhills) and exhaustion
(uphills) as a memory. (phil- i am just kidding and not getting huffy
that you didn't come to wave at me :)

> But I'd guess that your
> need to characterize the race (and the state) in such a "graceful"
> way reveals something of your personality. Not so sure that's
> worthy of worship status anymore.

"SO BE IT!"

i thought the georgia countryside was beautiful. i'm sorry i peed all
over it, but i *need* my morning coffee, race or not.

>>running two consecutive races on the weekend is crazy enough.
>>(not disapprovin, just sayin...)
>
>
> Why is that crazy? Because you don't happen to do it that way?
>
> Georgia has the most extensive Grand Prix running program in the
> country. We have over 320 annual events in the program, from 5Ks
> to marathons, with hundreds of runners actively participating.
>
> Last year, despite winning my age group in most of the 47 races I
> entered, I ended up 16th for the year in the Grand Prix standings.
> There were many runners who entered between 80 and 120 races
> during the year. Since these races are organized primarily on
> weekends, the only way you can do well on the Grand Prix circuit
> is to run multiple races on many weekends.
>
> Quite a few of the folks who ended up high in the final GP
> standings do not compete for the top AG spots. Nevertheless, they
> seem to get considerable enjoyment from frequently testing their
> physical abilities against other runners, gauging their progress
> against the clock, and maintaining contact with the running
> community.
>
> Frequent racers may not meet with your approval (and if it gives
> you a sense accomplishment, feel free to consider them to be
> "crazy"), but I respect and greatly admire their dedication to
> promoting and sustaining the great sport of running.

the term "crazy" isn't really a putdown, in the heather brain. maybe
knowing that will help, sigh..

i was thinking that doing two races in a row would be tiring and hard to
get up for, mentally, but i'm sure you get used to that after awhile and
it isn't as stressful as it might seem to those of us who don't do it.
and i was also thinking that frequent racing could easily take the place
of going to the track for a hard workout, but i don't really know about
that stuff with any authority so i chose to say that "racing is crazy
enough".

i hope you are feeling better, mark. if my posts bother you it's ok to
ignore them because i never have anything important or useful to say and
really i'm just hoping to make someone smile, even if that someone is
simply me.
carry on,
h


06 Mar 2007 22:28:08
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

h squared wrote
>
>more generally, i don't really care how you or anyone runs or how
>they train, and i expect everyone feels the same way about me,
>mostly. that's one reason why i like doing this stuff- at work
>things have to be done a certain way and at home i am responsible
>for a child and a man and three dogs and all the cooking cleaning
>laundry shopping activities that life demands, so i like having
>an activity where what i do doesn't matter,

OK, that helps to understand your position. Thanks for taking the
time to explain that, I never realized you faced so much pressure
in your job and shouldered so much responsibility in your role of
a domestic goddess. Now I feel terrible about having lectured you.

From now on, please feel to slam and ridicule Benji Durden, me,
the State of Georgia, the Historic Athens to Atlanta race,
frequent racing, or running in general whenever you feel the need
for it. We may not "like" it, but we'll find a way to deal with
it. It's the least we can do for a fellow athlete. We're here
for you.


06 Mar 2007 14:42:21
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH wrote:
(snip)

i'm sorry you don't like me- i liked reading your posts and "talking" to
you, i didn't know i was so annoying. i'm embarrassed... in my last post
i was trying to make you feel better, not angrier. i wish i could have
done a better job but that was the best i have.

like i said, i won't joke about you anymore. i guess i can't stop being
annoying, but i will try let you be.

heather


07 Mar 2007 00:54:17
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

h squared said...
>
>i'm sorry you don't like me- i liked reading your posts and
>"talking" to you, i didn't know i was so annoying. i'm
>embarrassed... in my last post i was trying to make you feel
>better, not angrier. i wish i could have done a better job but
>that was the best i have.
>
>like i said, i won't joke about you anymore. i guess i can't stop
>being annoying, but i will try let you be.

Oh, come on, lighten up. Now you're the one who's overreacting.

I was being sincere... you know, "without wax"... :-))


06 Mar 2007 17:42:21
h squared
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

MarkH wrote:

> h squared said...
>
>>i'm sorry you don't like me- i liked reading your posts and
>>"talking" to you, i didn't know i was so annoying. i'm
>>embarrassed... in my last post i was trying to make you feel
>>better, not angrier. i wish i could have done a better job but
>>that was the best i have.
>>
>>like i said, i won't joke about you anymore. i guess i can't stop
>>being annoying, but i will try let you be.
>
>
> Oh, come on, lighten up. Now you're the one who's overreacting.
>
> I was being sincere... you know, "without wax"... :-))

i don't really get it and am sorta afraid to talk to you now, but
besides that it's ok, and i will lighten up, asap.

blondie ;)


07 Mar 2007 02:27:16
MarkH
Re: Training Week Ending February 25, 2007

h squared <[email protected] > wrote
> MarkH wrote:

>> I was being sincere... you know, "without wax"... :-))
>
> i don't really get it and am sorta afraid to talk to you now,

Aah, don't be silly.

I guess you missed one of my responses to you a couple of weeks ago.
It had to do with the origins of the word "sincere". Something about
ancient Rome, marble, wax, etc.... a long story.