22 Feb 2007 04:27:15
Christos Dimitrakakis
Shoe construction

Hello - I've been running on and off for two years - sometimes due to
injuries, sometimes due to committing more to other sports.

The thing is, my favourite and least injury-inducing shoe appeared to
be my Puma Sprint shoes - very lightweight, simple light leather
construction with a snug fit and minimal EVA cushioning, but very
flexible. I had a bit of tightness around my ankles the first couple
of times I used them, but afterwards they were great. I usually run
on mountain trails.

Switching to 'real' running shoes was not very nice for the mountains,
as I recall my foot was always 'swimming' in the shoe. The Sprints
were pretty flat, while my asics GT-2110 were cushioned, curvy and
tilted in all sorts of ways that made it difficult for me to run
properly on the uneven surface.

Furthermore, when going on the flat, or downhill, the excessive high
heel of running shoes is uncomfortable. It forces me to touch with my
heel first, which I dislike - especially when going downhill. Why do
the latest running shoe models have such high heels? It certainly
does not help in a propulsive way, it just puts your foot in an
awkward position.

Baffled,
Christos



22 Feb 2007 13:54:58
MarkH
Re: Shoe construction

"Christos Dimitrakakis" <[email protected] > wrote

> Hello - I've been running on and off for two years - sometimes
> due to injuries, sometimes due to committing more to other
> sports.
>
> The thing is, my favourite and least injury-inducing shoe
> appeared to be my Puma Sprint shoes - very lightweight, simple
> light leather construction with a snug fit and minimal EVA
> cushioning, but very flexible. I had a bit of tightness around
> my ankles the first couple of times I used them, but afterwards
> they were great. I usually run on mountain trails.
>
> Switching to 'real' running shoes was not very nice for the
> mountains, as I recall my foot was always 'swimming' in the
> shoe. The Sprints were pretty flat, while my asics GT-2110 were
> cushioned, curvy and tilted in all sorts of ways that made it
> difficult for me to run properly on the uneven surface.
>
> Furthermore, when going on the flat, or downhill, the excessive
> high heel of running shoes is uncomfortable. It forces me to
> touch with my heel first, which I dislike - especially when
> going downhill. Why do the latest running shoe models have such
> high heels? It certainly does not help in a propulsive way, it
> just puts your foot in an awkward position.

It's all about marketing - convince the running world that a well-
cushioned shoe with high heels and all kinds of other supportive
doo-dads is required to run well and you are in the money. There
isn't much of a profit in selling minimalist shoes. What would you
change from model to model - color?

But if you found your minimalist shoe to work for you, why change
to a "real running shoe" anyway?


22 Feb 2007 06:55:46
Christos Dimitrakakis
Re: Shoe construction

On Feb 22, 2:54 pm, MarkH <[email protected] > wrote:
> "Christos Dimitrakakis" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>
>
> > Hello - I've been running on and off for two years - sometimes
> > due to injuries, sometimes due to committing more to other
> > sports.
>
> > The thing is, my favourite and least injury-inducing shoe
> > appeared to be my Puma Sprint shoes - very lightweight, simple
> > light leather construction with a snug fit and minimal EVA
> > cushioning, but very flexible. I had a bit of tightness around
> > my ankles the first couple of times I used them, but afterwards
> > they were great. I usually run on mountain trails.
>
> > Switching to 'real' running shoes was not very nice for the
> > mountains, as I recall my foot was always 'swimming' in the
> > shoe. The Sprints were pretty flat, while my asics GT-2110 were
> > cushioned, curvy and tilted in all sorts of ways that made it
> > difficult for me to run properly on the uneven surface.
>
> > Furthermore, when going on the flat, or downhill, the excessive
> > high heel of running shoes is uncomfortable. It forces me to
> > touch with my heel first, which I dislike - especially when
> > going downhill. Why do the latest running shoe models have such
> > high heels? It certainly does not help in a propulsive way, it
> > just puts your foot in an awkward position.
>
> It's all about marketing - convince the running world that a well-
> cushioned shoe with high heels and all kinds of other supportive
> doo-dads is required to run well and you are in the money. There
> isn't much of a profit in selling minimalist shoes. What would you
> change from model to model - color?
>
> But if you found your minimalist shoe to work for you, why change
> to a "real running shoe" anyway?

I cannot find a good minimalist shoe anymore. The new puma line is
quite uncomfortable: Most of them have tops that are far too rigid and
flashy and soles that don't flex in the right way. I just want a
simple leather or mesh that grips my foot's side nicely so that I a)
don't have my toes wedging in the toebox when I am going downhill b)
don't have my foot slip around sideways when I am running on a tilted
surface..



22 Feb 2007 08:04:08
runsrealfast
Re: Shoe construction


Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
> Hello - I've been running on and off for two years - sometimes due to
> injuries, sometimes due to committing more to other sports.
>
> The thing is, my favourite and least injury-inducing shoe appeared to
> be my Puma Sprint shoes - very lightweight, simple light leather
> construction with a snug fit and minimal EVA cushioning, but very
> flexible. I had a bit of tightness around my ankles the first couple
> of times I used them, but afterwards they were great. I usually run
> on mountain trails.
>
> Switching to 'real' running shoes was not very nice for the mountains,
> as I recall my foot was always 'swimming' in the shoe. The Sprints
> were pretty flat, while my asics GT-2110 were cushioned, curvy and
> tilted in all sorts of ways that made it difficult for me to run
> properly on the uneven surface.
>
> Furthermore, when going on the flat, or downhill, the excessive high
> heel of running shoes is uncomfortable. It forces me to touch with my
> heel first, which I dislike - especially when going downhill. Why do
> the latest running shoe models have such high heels? It certainly
> does not help in a propulsive way, it just puts your foot in an
> awkward position.


See I just bought a pair of those (2110's) to use as an alternate
shoe. They were fairly inexpesive so I thought I would give them a try
and if I didn't like them as a running shoe they look ok enough to be
a casual shoe. Anyway, I have not experienced any of the frustrations
with the shoe that you mentioned. I'm not saying your wrong but just
pointing out that its important to find the shoes for you. The ones
you had before worked for you, although the general populus must not
have been happy with that shoe. Thats why they changed. Its hard to
replace a shoe that you like when it gets discontinued. Most people
stick with a shoe for as long as possible. I would just got to a
running store (if one is available) and try and as many shoes as
possible. Alot of running store will let you (if the weather is ok)
test drive the shoe around the parking lot (or at least around the
store). Don't be afraid to try on every one from every brand if
needed.

Good Luck!

John



22 Feb 2007 09:38:27
Charlie Pendejo
Re: Shoe construction

Christos wrote:
> I cannot find a good minimalist shoe anymore. The new puma line is
> quite uncomfortable: Most of them have tops that are far too rigid and
> flashy and soles that don't flex in the right way. I just want a
> simple leather or mesh that grips my foot's side nicely so that I a)
> don't have my toes wedging in the toebox when I am going downhill b)
> don't have my foot slip around sideways when I am running on a tilted
> surface..

There's a fair number of minimalist shoes out there, really. I don't
know what you have available locally to try on but there's no shortage
of simple shoes being made and sold. There's cross country flats, and
then there's a bunch of models marketed as "retro casual shoes" or
"tai chi shoes" or whatever, rather than as something they expect you
to run in.

You could ask for specifics on the letsrun.com message board, which
has a sizable population of minimalist fans. And I bet there's
recommendations on posetech.com as well.



22 Feb 2007 09:49:57
Christos Dimitrakakis
Re: Shoe construction

Thanks for the help, people! I'll definitely be doing some shopping
around.

On Feb 22, 6:38 pm, "Charlie Pendejo" <[email protected] >
wrote:
> Christos wrote:
> > I cannot find a good minimalist shoe anymore. The new puma line is
> > quite uncomfortable: Most of them have tops that are far too rigid and
> > flashy and soles that don't flex in the right way. I just want a
> > simple leather or mesh that grips my foot's side nicely so that I a)
> > don't have my toes wedging in the toebox when I am going downhill b)
> > don't have my foot slip around sideways when I am running on a tilted
> > surface..
>
> There's a fair number of minimalist shoes out there, really. I don't
> know what you have available locally to try on but there's no shortage
> of simple shoes being made and sold. There's cross country flats, and
> then there's a bunch of models marketed as "retro casual shoes" or
> "tai chi shoes" or whatever, rather than as something they expect you
> to run in.

I've been looking at these mostly, but sadly they all seem to have a
weird sole design and an upper that is a bit too stiff..

>
> You could ask for specifics on the letsrun.com message board, which
> has a sizable population of minimalist fans. And I bet there's
> recommendations on posetech.com as well.

Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look there.



22 Feb 2007 18:25:11
Dot
Re: Shoe construction

Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
>
> I cannot find a good minimalist shoe anymore. The new puma line is
> quite uncomfortable: Most of them have tops that are far too rigid and
> flashy and soles that don't flex in the right way. I just want a
> simple leather or mesh that grips my foot's side nicely so that I a)
> don't have my toes wedging in the toebox when I am going downhill b)
> don't have my foot slip around sideways when I am running on a tilted
> surface..
>

Can you find Inov8 or Walsh shoes near you to try them? I've heard a
number of people that tend to prefer less shoe like some of those
models, esp. for fell running. Charlie also mentioned a couple options.

You probably know this, but when you find something that works, grab a
few more pairs before they get discontinued or modified.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope



22 Feb 2007 11:11:42
Christos Dimitrakakis
Re: Shoe construction

On Feb 22, 7:25 pm, Dot <[email protected]#duh?att.net > wrote:
> Christos Dimitrakakis wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I cannot find a good minimalist shoe anymore. The new puma line is
> > quite uncomfortable: Most of them have tops that are far too rigid and
> > flashy and soles that don't flex in the right way. I just want a
> > simple leather or mesh that grips my foot's side nicely so that I a)
> > don't have my toes wedging in the toebox when I am going downhill b)
> > don't have my foot slip around sideways when I am running on a tilted
> > surface..
>
> Can you find Inov8 or Walsh shoes near you to try them? I've heard a
> number of people that tend to prefer less shoe like some of those
> models, esp. for fell running. Charlie also mentioned a couple options.
>
> You probably know this, but when you find something that works, grab a
> few more pairs before they get discontinued or modified.
>

I'll do that next time for sure. Mailing the local running shop right
now to ask for Inov-8 or Walsh..