27 Nov 2006 04:46:39
john
Question about base training

I am interested in getting back into running after taking many years
off and mostly bike racing. My goal is to get enough speed to be able
to race some duathlons starting in the spring (Mayish) of next year.

At this point, I'm running about 30 miles a week and cycling the rest,
I'm in mid 31 for 5 miles shape according to a race thanksgiving day.

I'd like to train to race distances of 10K and down.

Questions:

Is about 90 minutes enough for a long run for these distances? I
generally do nearly all of my training on trails as I am both bigish
and injury prone.

I'd like to do about 8 weeks to build up to a bit more mileage, maybe 5
days a week some weeks. Besides just running at base pace, what should
I incorportate? I was planning to do some 100m striders once a week
and incorportate some hill repeats (maybe 2-4 mins) to strengthen up my
legs for the track in the last couple weeks of the cycle, should I also
be doing a tempo or AT run during the winter months, or is just running
along OK?

Thanks for any insights, it's a long run to get back to 1985, I guess I
just need to head toward 2007 and not worry about it any more.



27 Nov 2006 09:11:51
runsrealfast
Re: Question about base training


john wrote:
> I am interested in getting back into running after taking many years
> off and mostly bike racing. My goal is to get enough speed to be able
> to race some duathlons starting in the spring (Mayish) of next year.
>
> At this point, I'm running about 30 miles a week and cycling the rest,
> I'm in mid 31 for 5 miles shape according to a race thanksgiving day.
>
> I'd like to train to race distances of 10K and down.
>
> Questions:
>
> Is about 90 minutes enough for a long run for these distances? I
> generally do nearly all of my training on trails as I am both bigish
> and injury prone.
>
> I'd like to do about 8 weeks to build up to a bit more mileage, maybe 5
> days a week some weeks. Besides just running at base pace, what should
> I incorportate? I was planning to do some 100m striders once a week
> and incorportate some hill repeats (maybe 2-4 mins) to strengthen up my
> legs for the track in the last couple weeks of the cycle, should I also
> be doing a tempo or AT run during the winter months, or is just running
> along OK?
>
> Thanks for any insights, it's a long run to get back to 1985, I guess I
> just need to head toward 2007 and not worry about it any more.

Gee you seem to have some good ideas and are on the right path to reach
your goals, not sure if there is anything we could add. for 10k I would
increase the mileage a little, and then do some speed and (like you
said) hill repeats.

One thing though, you said you are bigish. Do you mean overweight or
you have a big frame? If you need to lose weight then increase the
mileage and knock those extra pounds off. That will be extra hard
durning the holidays but doable. Running 5-6 days a week will help with
that.

John



27 Nov 2006 18:20:36
Robert Grumbine
Re: Question about base training

In article <[email protected] >,
john <[email protected] > wrote:
>I am interested in getting back into running after taking many years
>off and mostly bike racing. My goal is to get enough speed to be able
>to race some duathlons starting in the spring (Mayish) of next year.
>
>At this point, I'm running about 30 miles a week and cycling the rest,
>I'm in mid 31 for 5 miles shape according to a race thanksgiving day.
>
>I'd like to train to race distances of 10K and down.
>
>Questions:
>
>Is about 90 minutes enough for a long run for these distances? I
>generally do nearly all of my training on trails as I am both bigish
>and injury prone.

Yes, and it's a good idea, respectively. If you were looking
at 10 mile-half marathon, you might want to take the long run up to
2 hours. But for 10k and down the 90 minutes is enough or more than
enough.

>I'd like to do about 8 weeks to build up to a bit more mileage, maybe 5
>days a week some weeks. Besides just running at base pace, what should
>I incorportate? I was planning to do some 100m striders once a week
>and incorportate some hill repeats (maybe 2-4 mins) to strengthen up my
>legs for the track in the last couple weeks of the cycle, should I also
>be doing a tempo or AT run during the winter months, or is just running
>along OK?
>
>Thanks for any insights, it's a long run to get back to 1985, I guess I
>just need to head toward 2007 and not worry about it any more.

For aerobic base, your biking gives you a lot to work from. The
parts to have some focus on in your running is the running-specific
side. The long run is one part of that. Strength running -- hills
and sprints -- is another part. For the hills, a variety down to
50 meters (but steep) and up to 4 minutes (less steep) is a generally
good idea. Sometimes tempo/AT running gets classed with this. It's
a good idea to do a strength workout on a weekly basis.

The final bit is race-directed speed work. One pace to pay attention
to is your race pace for the race of interest. Say your goal is another
5 mile/8k. You'll want to be doing some speed work near your 6:00/mile
pace, say for 1200-1600 meters. But you'll also want some slower work,
say 10-12 k pace, for 10 minutes at a shot. And some faster, say 5k pace
for 800-1600 m. One such workout per week.

You'll need more than the last two weeks before the race for this
speed work. The last two weeks' speed work doesn't have much physical
training effect. (Though it can be significant for your mental
preparation.) 8-12 weeks is a more typical track work period before
a 'big' race, so you might want to start with this now, but say the
longer and slower (10 minutes at 10k pace, rather than the 1600s at
5k pace) end first.

So only 3 running workouts crucial at this point -- length, strength,
and speed. The rest, aerobic base, go with whatever you like -- bike or
run -- and keeps you uninjured. If you really want to hammer the race
times, you'll need to shift to just running. For now, though, you'll have
a lot of time to take off by just re-introducing the strength and speed
work.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences


27 Nov 2006 15:05:53
john
Re: Question about base training

> One thing though, you said you are bigish. Do you mean overweight or
> you have a big frame? If you need to lose weight then increase the
> mileage and knock those extra pounds off. That will be extra hard
> durning the holidays but doable. Running 5-6 days a week will help with
> that.
>
> John

No, I am large framed for a runner, when I was running higher (70-80
mpw) I was about 165 and maybe too skinny at that, now I'm maybe 175, I
could drop some weight and not lose power, I believe.

Thanks for the tips, I have to be patient which is difficult.