28 Apr 2005 18:06:05
Adam
Stupid Torch Question

I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that coleman
lantern fluid (I'm in the US) is considered a good thing to use. I
found canisters of it at Walmart but didn't see how to use it since you
can't just pour it out. Is there some sort of device you have to use
to be able to remove it from the canister it comes in?


Adam



29 Apr 2005 01:35:44
sean_
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Adam wrote:
> I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that coleman
> lantern fluid (I'm in the US) is considered a good thing to use. I
> found canisters of it at Walmart but didn't see how to use it since you
> can't just pour it out. Is there some sort of device you have to use
> to be able to remove it from the canister it comes in?
>
>
> Adam

I dont think you are on the right track Adam

http://www.foreworks.com/fire.html

Fire is not something you should aproach without a lot of thought,
research and prefeably somebody with experiance and commonsense to teach
you in person. I highly suggest you find somebody too help you and dont
try it untill you are ready (and they think so too)



----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----



28 Apr 2005 21:50:19
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


sean_ wrote:
> Adam wrote:
> > I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that
coleman
> > lantern fluid (I'm in the US) is considered a good thing to use. I
> > found canisters of it at Walmart but didn't see how to use it since
you
> > can't just pour it out. Is there some sort of device you have to
use
> > to be able to remove it from the canister it comes in?
> >
> >
> > Adam
>
> I dont think you are on the right track Adam
>
> http://www.foreworks.com/fire.html
>
> Fire is not something you should aproach without a lot of thought,
> research and prefeably somebody with experiance and commonsense to
teach
> you in person. I highly suggest you find somebody too help you and
dont
> try it untill you are ready (and they think so too)
>
>
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----


Not on the right track? In what way? The link you gave me, which I
had already read, didn't seem to discourage coleman fluid other than to
say it is more volatile than pure kerosene. Just because I dropped out
of boy scouts and don't know how to access the fluid sold in walmart
doesn't mean I'm going to blow myself up does it? Do you have a
specific reason (personal experiences, horror stories of other
jugglers, etc) to tell me not to use coleman fluid or even fire torches
themselves?


Adam



29 Apr 2005 06:07:19
Naomi
Re: Stupid Torch Question


"Adam" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> sean_ wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>> > I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that
> coleman
>
> Not on the right track? In what way? The link you gave me, which I
> had already read, didn't seem to discourage coleman fluid other than to
> say it is more volatile than pure kerosene. Just because I dropped out
> of boy scouts and don't know how to access the fluid sold in walmart
> doesn't mean I'm going to blow myself up does it?

I think Sean is merely trying to offer advice to a new fire juggler. There
are traps for the unwary and it is good advice to be in the presence and
under the advice of an experienced fire juggler the first time you have a
go.
I have for instance seen a novice try, without help, to juggle fire, and in
the process burn his eye simply because he did not know some of the basics.
All Sean is saying is make sure you have been well advised and know what you
are doing. Keep it safe.
It is in all our interests to keep it safe, accidents with fire are a
reason it gets progressively more difficult to get fire insurance, for what
should be a pretty safe process, done properly.


Nao




29 Apr 2005 10:08:47
Little Paul
Re: Stupid Torch Question

On 2005-04-29, Adam <[email protected] > wrote:
> I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that coleman
> lantern fluid (I'm in the US) is considered a good thing to use. I
> found canisters of it at Walmart but didn't see how to use it since you
> can't just pour it out.

In which case you have found the wrong product. What you have found is
more likely to be the (much more common) coleman gas (as is an actual
pressurised gas rather than gas meaning petrol) Being in a gaseous,
pressurised state makes it terribly difficult to dip a wick into.

This comes in a sealed canister which is designed to fuel a camping
stove. What you want is "lantern fluid" which is designed to fuel
an old fasioned kerrosene lamp. This is a liquid fuel rather than
a gaseous one, and as such doesn't come in a sealed canister. Therefore
you can pour it out quite readily.

You are much better off taking a trip to your local hippy suppliers
and buy yourself some unscented lamp oil. It's harder to find the
wrong product, and a little less likely to cause you problems if you do
something stupid.

For advice on how to find a suitable fuel for fire juggling in whatever
part of the world you happen to be in at any given time, have a look
through the rec.juggling archives. It comes up often enough.

As others have said, fire juggling is potentially very dangerous, there
are some very basic things that most beginners don't think of relating
to the safety and preparation that you should go through before sparking
up, and it would be poor form for me to post on a fire thread without
reminding anyone wanting to try this sort of thing to be sensible, get
advice, read up on the subject first, and above all don't try it
unsupervised.

This is not a slur against your inteligence, just a reminder to those
reading who may not be prepared for the dangers.

-Paul


29 Apr 2005 04:58:32
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


Little Paul wrote:

> In which case you have found the wrong product. What you have found
is
> more likely to be the (much more common) coleman gas (as is an actual
> pressurised gas rather than gas meaning petrol) Being in a gaseous,
> pressurised state makes it terribly difficult to dip a wick into.
>
> This comes in a sealed canister which is designed to fuel a camping
> stove. What you want is "lantern fluid" which is designed to fuel
> an old fasioned kerrosene lamp. This is a liquid fuel rather than
> a gaseous one, and as such doesn't come in a sealed canister.
Therefore
> you can pour it out quite readily.

Thanks, it all makes sense now. I appreciate the safety concernes
mentioned.


Adam



29 Apr 2005 21:23:19
CO_Cowboy
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Howdo, Adam?
I'm a newbie, here and hope I'm not step'n on any toes. It's been long
enought you have probably try'd it by now. However, I would like to give
you a tip, I wasn't exexpecting.

Notice that when you are juggling clubs, Knives, Bottles, how your arms
drop way down considerably lower then normally (at least to get started).
First time I tried it, I lowered my arm down to get the revolution
started, and smoked most of the hair on my arm.

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----



29 Apr 2005 15:48:50
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


CO_Cowboy wrote:
> Howdo, Adam?
> I'm a newbie, here and hope I'm not step'n on any toes. It's been
long
> enought you have probably try'd it by now. However, I would like to
give
> you a tip, I wasn't exexpecting.
>
> Notice that when you are juggling clubs, Knives, Bottles, how your
arms
> drop way down considerably lower then normally (at least to get
started).
> First time I tried it, I lowered my arm down to get the revolution
> started, and smoked most of the hair on my arm.
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

Since I'm safety conscious in general, am an adult, have read the sites
and old posts, have seen and talked to jugglers about this over the
past year, and am qualifying 5 clubs every time I practice, general
comments like "You should read up on it first and not take it lightly,"
while well intended and appreciated, are unlikely to improve my safety.
A specific injury report like yours, however, is enlightening and
maybe you've saved me some burned arm hair.

Thanks for the help everyone, and welcome to rec.juggling CO_Cowboy.

Adam



29 Apr 2005 16:07:16
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


Naomi wrote:

>
> I think Sean is merely trying to offer advice to a new fire juggler.
There
> are traps for the unwary and it is good advice to be in the presence
and
> under the advice of an experienced fire juggler the first time you
have a
> go.

I see that in an ideal world I would have experienced supervision. But
how can lighting a juggling torch be more dangerous than lighting, say,
an outdoor grill? I've read the section in Dancey's Club Compendium, a
few sites on the web, and a few dozen old posts until they started
repeating themselves. If I don't leave too much fuel on the wick
before lighting, keep the fuel container many feet away, don't use
gasoline/petrol, and use my juggling skills to keep the fire away from
my body, what have I missed?

> I have for instance seen a novice try, without help, to juggle fire,
and in
> the process burn his eye simply because he did not know some of the
basics.
> All Sean is saying is make sure you have been well advised and know
what you
> are doing. Keep it safe.

Was this just because he couldn't juggle three clubs? What was his
actual mistake (i.e., the thing I will try to avoid)? Was he a novice
juggler as well or just a novice at lighting a wick?

> It is in all our interests to keep it safe, accidents with fire are
a
> reason it gets progressively more difficult to get fire insurance,
for what
> should be a pretty safe process, done properly.

Please don't get the tone of my response wrong, I really appreciate
your post and read it several times. Just understand that you've
raised concerns about safety without giving me more insight into how to
be safe. Then again, just being more aware of safety will probably
make me safer! Thanks.

Adam



30 Apr 2005 12:02:09
Jay Linn
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Adam wrote:

<snip! >

Adam, the safety-conscious responses you have received so far are from
people who have the benefit of a little experience in these matters, and
in their judgement, if you want to be really safe, they have given you
the various bits of advice in response to your question. This is not
because they are paranoid, or sticklers for lots of rules and
regulations, but because their experience indicates that a very cautious
approach is prudent in these circumstances.

You don't have to follow their advice of course, and you will
*probably* be just fine, but there is still a small risk of a big
injury. Imagine crossing a desert highway, blindfold and listening to
heavy metal through headphones - you'll *probably* be okay, because
there's very little traffic, but if you happen to walk in front of an
eighteen wheeler, you'll be roadkill. The lesson here is not knowing the
likelihood of something going wrong, but knowing the consequences if an
unlikely misfortune actually comes to pass.

Of all the advice you have been offered, probably the most important
is to ensure that you are accompanied at all times, until you get a feel
for what you're doing.

Fire juggling is perfectly safe and harmless once you know what you're
doing, as is crossing desert highways, but have the common sense to
realise that, as a beginner, you don't even know what you don't know yet
(copyright D. Rumsfeld :), so you should assume that you are really
stupid, and then take a little pride in yourself when you prove yourself
wrong.

--
Jay Linn

Will be juggling fire for three hours straight this evening, and nursing
sore forearms tomorrow.


30 Apr 2005 08:39:31
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


Jay Linn wrote:
> Adam wrote:
>
> <snip!>
>
> Adam, the safety-conscious responses you have received so far are
from
> people who have the benefit of a little experience in these matters,
and
> in their judgement, if you want to be really safe, they have given
you
> the various bits of advice in response to your question. This is not
> because they are paranoid, or sticklers for lots of rules and
> regulations, but because their experience indicates that a very
cautious
> approach is prudent in these circumstances.

> You don't have to follow their advice of course, and you will
> *probably* be just fine, but there is still a small risk of a big
> injury. Imagine crossing a desert highway, blindfold and listening to

> heavy metal through headphones - you'll *probably* be okay, because
> there's very little traffic, but if you happen to walk in front of an

> eighteen wheeler, you'll be roadkill. The lesson here is not knowing
the
> likelihood of something going wrong, but knowing the consequences if
an
> unlikely misfortune actually comes to pass.
>
> Of all the advice you have been offered, probably the most
important
> is to ensure that you are accompanied at all times, until you get a
feel
> for what you're doing.
>
> Fire juggling is perfectly safe and harmless once you know what
you're
> doing, as is crossing desert highways, but have the common sense to
> realise that, as a beginner, you don't even know what you don't know
yet
> (copyright D. Rumsfeld :), so you should assume that you are really
> stupid, and then take a little pride in yourself when you prove
yourself
> wrong.
>
> --
> Jay Linn
>
> Will be juggling fire for three hours straight this evening, and
nursing
> sore forearms tomorrow.

Jay,

Judging from your response, I must have come across as an overconfident
jerk which was not intended. I was fortunate and surprised that some
of rec.juggling's most experienced posters took the time to give advice
on such a tired topic. Still, I got the feeling that important
pitfalls in fire juggling were being alluded to but not outright said
and this was a little frustrating. Take your response, for example.
It was quite long but all it really said was that I'm a beginner and
that fire juggling is dangerous. It doesn't take someone with your
years of experience to tell me that, my grandmother knows that. Why
couldn't you just share a few tips that would contribute to my safety
instead? To make things even more confusing for me, you're also
telling me that crossing a highway with no traffic for a mile in either
direction is somehow dangerous, leaving me quite curious as to how this
could be so. I do not respect the safety levels of the fire jugglers
in my area, so wish me luck lighting them under non-expert supervision!


I do appreciate your response, but probably not as much as I should.

Adam



30 Apr 2005 17:31:19
Craig Zupke
Re: Stupid Torch Question

The Coleman fuel that people use for torches comes in rectangular metal can
with a simple screw cap on the top. To get the fuel out you just unscrew
the cap and pour. Since this is very obvious (and you don't seem like a
total moron:) I suspect that you are looking at the wrong stuff. Perhaps
you are looking at a canister of propane (for which Coleman does make a
lantern that screws on top). The propane canister is a small green cylinder
that has thick walls to withstand the pressure of the propane. The liquid
fuel can is thin walled metal (like a metal gas can).

-Craig

"Adam" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I'm going to try torches for the first time and have heard that coleman
> lantern fluid (I'm in the US) is considered a good thing to use. I
> found canisters of it at Walmart but didn't see how to use it since you
> can't just pour it out. Is there some sort of device you have to use
> to be able to remove it from the canister it comes in?
>
>
> Adam
>





30 Apr 2005 17:41:32
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


> Use a lighter not matches.
>
> You may be used to just catching the wrong end of a club and
recovering.
> With fire you can't.

That's one thing I have going for me, in the past year I've caught the
wrong end about twice. My mind knows integral spins and drops, nothing
else.

> Dip the wicks into a paper cup of fuel, rather than pouring it,
although I
> do this.
> Put the cap back on the big container of fuel before you knock it
over.
> Shake out each torch really thoroughly.

Wouldn't mind hearing more about this since it directly contradicts
Charlie Dancey.

> Get into the habit of holding the torches aloft, or at least upright,

> especially when bending over.

That's a good one.

> Don't try tricks that you can't really do with clubs.

!!!

> Don't look at the torches. You will dazzle yourself.
> Watch the handles.

Good advice, but dang it, why did I get into torches again?

> Don't juggle in full darkness. You can't see, and it isn't really
> spectacular anyway.
> Dusk is best (I had this argument 10 years ago ...)

I'll agree with you for now.

> If a torch goes out, blow out the others and redip the lot.
> This also saves your wick long-term.

Hmmm... the redip is a potential hazard though, right?

> When the torches go out, they are still really dirty (buskers joke).
> They are also still hot on the metal part. Don't touch !
> Clean them off with a dirty old towel after 5 minutes.
> Wrap them up in the towel, and then in a drawstring bag.
> Put them away after use.
>
> Do not get into fire eating or blowing.
> Tell anyone who asks that it is carcinogenic.
>
> I actually suggest practicing fire alone, outdoors, no wind, no sun.
> Other people distract you. Several people can get silly.
> In particular, don't let anyone under 16 anywhere near your torches.
>


Thanks a lot.

Adam



30 Apr 2005 17:42:43
Adam
Re: Stupid Torch Question


itshim wrote:
> Adam wrote:
> > Jay Linn wrote:
> > > Adam wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip!>
> > >
> > > Adam, the safety-conscious responses you have received so far
are
> > from
> > > people who have the benefit of a little experience in these
matters,
> > and
> > > in their judgement, if you want to be really safe, they have
given
> > you
> > > the various bits of advice in response to your question. This is
not
> > > because they are paranoid, or sticklers for lots of rules and
> > > regulations, but because their experience indicates that a very
> > cautious
> > > approach is prudent in these circumstances.
> >
> > > You don't have to follow their advice of course, and you will
> > > *probably* be just fine, but there is still a small risk of a big
> > > injury. Imagine crossing a desert highway, blindfold and
listening to
> >
> > > heavy metal through headphones - you'll *probably* be okay,
because
> > > there's very little traffic, but if you happen to walk in front
of an
> >
> > > eighteen wheeler, you'll be roadkill. The lesson here is not
knowing
> > the
> > > likelihood of something going wrong, but knowing the consequences
if
> > an
> > > unlikely misfortune actually comes to pass.
> > >
> > > Of all the advice you have been offered, probably the most
> > important
> > > is to ensure that you are accompanied at all times, until you get
a
> > feel
> > > for what you're doing.
> > >
> > > Fire juggling is perfectly safe and harmless once you know what
> > you're
> > > doing, as is crossing desert highways, but have the common sense
to
> > > realise that, as a beginner, you don't even know what you don't
know
> > yet
> > > (copyright D. Rumsfeld :), so you should assume that you are
really
> > > stupid, and then take a little pride in yourself when you prove
> > yourself
> > > wrong.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jay Linn
> > >
> > > Will be juggling fire for three hours straight this evening, and
> > nursing
> > > sore forearms tomorrow.
> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > Judging from your response, I must have come across as an
overconfident
> > jerk which was not intended. I was fortunate and surprised that
some
> > of rec.juggling's most experienced posters took the time to give
advice
> > on such a tired topic. Still, I got the feeling that important
> > pitfalls in fire juggling were being alluded to but not outright
said
> > and this was a little frustrating. Take your response, for
example.
> > It was quite long but all it really said was that I'm a beginner
and
> > that fire juggling is dangerous. It doesn't take someone with your
> > years of experience to tell me that, my grandmother knows that.
Why
> > couldn't you just share a few tips that would contribute to my
safety
> > instead? To make things even more confusing for me, you're also
> > telling me that crossing a highway with no traffic for a mile in
either
> > direction is somehow dangerous, leaving me quite curious as to how
this
> > could be so. I do not respect the safety levels of the fire
jugglers
> > in my area, so wish me luck lighting them under non-expert
supervision!
> >
> >
> > I do appreciate your response, but probably not as much as I
should.
> >
> > Adam
>
>
> Since no-one else is posting specific dangers here gos :-
>
> You juggle fire, because it worries you you throw the clubs further
away
> from you than normal (this is a very common response by newbies) and
then
> ..
>
> The torch you throw goes in a completely different direction than you
> expected and lands in your gel-covered hair or in your eye or on your
> flammable clothing or on somebody elses flammable clothing that you
didn't
> know had just come to watch what you were doing as it looked cool but
> decided to stand behind you so you didn't see them.
>
> Alternatively you get some oil on the handles as well as having
sweaty
> hands and you find that you can't actually control the throw of the
torch
> at all. (or it starts raining or some joker decides to super soak you
as
> you're on fire!)
>
> Possibly you think your torches have gone out and so you put them in
the
> fuel but there is still a slight light and you end up losing all your
> facial and arm hair and recieve 3rd degree burns.
>
> You think it would be good to juggle at night but don't realise that
all
> you can actually see are the big balls of fire and the handles are
> invisible.
>
> Your standing on grass that has been drying in the sun for far too
long
> and you drop your torch.
>
> You've been using a rag to wipe off the excess oil and then the torch
> touches the rag oh and it's also really windy so you're sending
little
> bits of burning rag everywhere.
>
> This isn't an exclusive list but just a few examples of some of the
things
> that can happen with fire (and some of these are examples I've
personally
> seen!) that's why Jay strongly recommended you have someone with you.
They
> are there to make sure you don't hurt yourself OR others.
>
> Fire juggling isn't particularly dangerous by itself it's the
surroundings
> that cause the danger. Oh and remember Fire and Alcohol DON'T MIX.
(having
> seen people come out of a burns unit)
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Nigel
>
>
> ----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----



Thank you, Nigel!

Adam



01 May 2005 21:50:53
Steve Bennett
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Hi,
I notice no one has mentioned wearing gloves or protective clothing.
Is this not a good idea?

I've never tried fire, but knowing how often I catch the wrong end,
gloves seemed essential...?

Steve



02 May 2005 14:00:29
Jay Linn
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Adam wrote:

<snip >

> Judging from your response, I must have come across as an overconfident
> jerk which was not intended.

Nor was that the case. You could, I suppose, be accused of a little
overeagerness, but that's a different thing entirely, and completely
understandable.

> I was fortunate and surprised that some
> of rec.juggling's most experienced posters took the time to give advice
> on such a tired topic. Still, I got the feeling that important
> pitfalls in fire juggling were being alluded to but not outright said
> and this was a little frustrating. Take your response, for example.
> It was quite long but all it really said was that I'm a beginner and
> that fire juggling is dangerous.

I'm with you so far ...

> It doesn't take someone with your
> years of experience to tell me that, my grandmother knows that. Why
> couldn't you just share a few tips that would contribute to my safety
> instead?

Because my years of experience tells me that an attitude of general
caution and prudence is far more valuable than a list of potential
pitfalls. There is no exhaustive list of hazards, so I gave it to you
straight - have a careful attitude, and expect the worst. You will
notice that others have said much the same - please recognise that there
is a consensus of opinion here, and it's not a coincidence. I know that
'be careful' sounds a little vague, but that's because it's our best
advice, honestly.

> To make things even more confusing for me, you're also
> telling me that crossing a highway with no traffic for a mile in either
> direction is somehow dangerous, leaving me quite curious as to how this
> could be so.

Now you're just misrepresenting what I said. You've asked for and been
given advice, you could at least take my words at face value.

> I do not respect the safety levels of the fire jugglers
> in my area, so wish me luck lighting them under non-expert supervision!

Good luck. Enjoy yourself, prove us all mightily wrong, and thanks for
having the sense to have some company, however inexpert.

--
Jay Linn

Lab rat.


02 May 2005 22:48:22
Little Paul
Re: Stupid Torch Question

On 2005-05-01, Rory Parle <[email protected] > wrote:
> gingernutz wrote:
>
>> You may be used to just catching the wrong end of a club and recovering.
>> With fire you can't.
>
> Yes you can, if you're fast enough. I've done it, and I see people doing
> it a lot. Paraffin burns at a very low temperature, so it doesn't hurt
> unless you hold onto it for a second or two.

I'd still recomend against trying it. I know of at least one juggler
who has two fading but noticable little circular scars on the palm of
his hand from where he caught a torch the wrong way up. The wick, and
parrafin may burn at a relatively cool temperature, but steel screws do
sure hold their heat...

-Paul


02 May 2005 22:57:02
Little Paul
Re: Stupid Torch Question

On 2005-05-02, Steve Bennett <[email protected] > wrote:
> Hi,
> I notice no one has mentioned wearing gloves or protective clothing.
> Is this not a good idea?

Gloves are not a good idea. They have a tendancy to attract fuel, soak
it up and then act as a wick. You really don't want that to happen.

Even if that doesn't happen, they reduce the amount of grip you have
available making the torches more likely to slip out of your hand if and
when fuel gets on the handle.

Oh, and they make you look a right pansy.

You do mention clothing though, and clothing is important. Loose
clothing is a very bad idea as it increases the risk of things getting
caught. That said, spandex is a big no-no too. Not only because
spandex is a privalidge not a right, but it (and other acrylics) have a
tendancy to burn quite nicely. Well, I say "nicely" - they tend to melt
before burning and then weld themselves to your pink bits... if you can
call that sort of behaviour "nice"

Tie back long hair, wear cotton jeans and a cotton t-shirt and you
should be fine.

I've personally lost hair to fire torches whilst passing because I
didn't tie back my dreds, and I lost a favourite jumper (and narrowly
missed a trip to the local burns unit) when a friend lost control of a
staff that flew out of his hand and hit me in the back.

> I've never tried fire, but knowing how often I catch the wrong end,
> gloves seemed essential...?

It's much better to trust your natural drop instinct. You'll let go of
the wrong end quick enough.

-Paul


02 May 2005 23:17:36
Little Paul
Re: Stupid Torch Question

On 2005-04-29, Adam <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> I see that in an ideal world I would have experienced supervision. But
> how can lighting a juggling torch be more dangerous than lighting, say,
> an outdoor grill?

Lighting a torch is the easy, safe bit. You're right, lighting a torch
(or even three!) is just as safe, if not safer than lighting an outdoor
grill.

However, you tend not to throw an outdoor grill around, an outdoor grill
uses a gaseous rather than liquid fuel and so the similarity just about
stops there. :-)

> I've read the section in Dancey's Club Compendium, a
> few sites on the web, and a few dozen old posts until they started
> repeating themselves. If I don't leave too much fuel on the wick
> before lighting, keep the fuel container many feet away, don't use
> gasoline/petrol, and use my juggling skills to keep the fire away from
> my body, what have I missed?

Hair, clothing, wind direction, smoke inhilation, chaotic spectators,
trying to run before you can walk with the prop, lighting conditions,
grass and other environmental factors etc...

As others have said, an exhaustive list is impossible to provide and
impossible for you to remember. Much better to look around you and ask
yourself "what angles have I covered? What risks remain? And what can
I do to minimise these risks and or cope with a problem"

Apply a little common sense and some thinking to my list of things
you've missed, and you'll quickly see that long hair is ain obvious
hazzard, loose or inappropriate clothing is a problem, inhaling
petrochemical smoke is not good for you, you can't control those around
you, especially if they're drunk and/or stoned, trying stuff you can
only just do with clubs is a bad idea, juggling dangerous props in pitch
black is just stupid, dry grass is a fire hazard, wind can change
direction and has a big effect on fire...

None of that is rocket science, and all of that is quite neatly summed
up by Jays "be careful" attitude.

My personal golden rule with fire is "take your time, think it
through first" - and that's pretty much what I've learnt from my
10 years or so of fire juggling/eating/breathing/magic

<burnt eye >
> Was this just because he couldn't juggle three clubs? What was his
> actual mistake (i.e., the thing I will try to avoid)? Was he a novice
> juggler as well or just a novice at lighting a wick?

It wasn't my story, but I suspect it was either:
a) bending over to pick something up without holding the torch to one
side, flame rises, it's easy to forget that.
b) too much fuel on the wick, burning droplets go everwhere when you
throw a club, getting one in the eye is both possible and painful.
c) The wind gusted in a direction that wasn't anticipated, blowing the
flame towards his face (although this is probably the least likely)

> Please don't get the tone of my response wrong,

Please don't get the tone of our posts wrong. We want you to try fire
juggling, it can be great fun, but we want you to be safe. Many of us
have posted extremely long posts about how to juggle/eat/breathe fire
in relative safety in the past, hence my pointing you to the archives.

The advice may be vague, but that's partly because we don't want to
write the same advice out again, and partly because if we give you an
"exhaustive list" you'll find something that's not on the list, get
hurt, and then blame us.

Much better that you sit down, think about it, accept that there will
always be an angle you haven't got covered, and one day, just one day,
you'll get hit by that particular 18-wheeler, but if youve got someone
handy to phone for help you stand a reasonable chance of survival.

Do you see what I mean?

> Then again, just being more aware of safety will probably
> make me safer! Thanks.

Now you're getting it.

-Paul


02 May 2005 23:39:03
Little Paul
Re: Stupid Torch Question

On 2005-05-02, Little Paul <[email protected] > wrote:
>> few sites on the web, and a few dozen old posts until they started
>> repeating themselves. If I don't leave too much fuel on the wick
>> before lighting, keep the fuel container many feet away, don't use
>> gasoline/petrol, and use my juggling skills to keep the fire away from
>> my body, what have I missed?

Oh, and I've just remembered, the following articles may prove
entertaining reading, and are even half way relevant:

http://www.lpbk.net/the_catch/volume_1_issue_3/
(That's a whole issue of a juggling mag published in the UK in 1993)

Pages 12-16 deal with fire, and possibly page 19 as well (Although I've
not read that page in full to check) The file naming should be
reasonably obvious, but as they're jpegs your browser may try to resize
them to fit your window rendering them unreadable. Fixing this is a
case of learning how to use your web browser and not something I can be
bothered with explaining.

Enjoy!

-Paul


02 May 2005 17:44:15
[email protected]
Re: Stupid Torch Question

Well, this has certainly been an entertaining thread, and rather
informative thread. Since it didn't come around I'm going to throw out
my favorite torch safety lesson (with full credit to whoever ran the
workshop on torches at the Cascade juggler's meet a few years back)...
It's the statue of liberty. When you drop a torch put the other two in
your dominant hand and hold them up (like the statue of liberty!)
before you bend down to pick up the dropped torch.

This will save the new fire juggler some arm hair, a shirt sleeve, and
a trip to the ER. When a torch goes down, the rest need to be held up.



03 May 2005 02:01:33
Rory Parle
Re: Stupid Torch Question

[email protected] wrote:
> Well, this has certainly been an entertaining thread, and rather
> informative thread. Since it didn't come around I'm going to throw out
> my favorite torch safety lesson (with full credit to whoever ran the
> workshop on torches at the Cascade juggler's meet a few years back)...
> It's the statue of liberty. When you drop a torch put the other two in
> your dominant hand and hold them up (like the statue of liberty!)
> before you bend down to pick up the dropped torch.
>
> This will save the new fire juggler some arm hair, a shirt sleeve, and
> a trip to the ER. When a torch goes down, the rest need to be held up.

Or you can throw them up high, quickly bend over to pick up the dropped
one, and continue your pattern. Not that you should, but you could.

--
Rory Parle


03 May 2005 01:00:45
Eric Bagai
Re: Stupid Torch Question

> Why
> couldn't you just share a few tips that would contribute to my safety
> instead? . . . I do appreciate your response, but probably not as much as
I should.

See www.foreworks.com for fairly complete fire safety. I
t begins with the same idea that Jay was trying to get across:

It isn't what you don't know that will hurt you; it's what you know that
isn't true.

=Eric




03 May 2005 17:43:09
Adam
Thank you

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave me their insight that
extended far beyond why a fuel in gas form cannot be poured on a wick
:-) I juggled my torches today and had a great time with them.

Adam

PS- I've been thinking about getting torches for several months and
during that time have talked to others about it while they were using
fire equipment. I prepared a safety kit (fire extinguisher, towels,
ice, water, etc) before I even had the torches. I was thus a little
taken aback when people told me to get someone with common sense (yes,
it was said) to help me and stop being so anxious about starting, but I
realize everyone was just trying to, and did, help.