31 Dec 2007 07:37:26
Bernie Cosell
Announcers

My my... I forgot there was no tournament this weekend and so I caught a
tournament from 1995 on ESPNCL. Announcers: Mike Durbin and Earl Anthony.
Brian Voss drops in to add commentary. No "hambones". No fake australian
accents. It was just wonderful.... [tournament was won by John
Handegaard, who became the oldest person ever to win a PBA tournament.
Playing a low-rev shot down-and-in on the 2nd arrow. Oh, the good old
days...:o)]

/Bernie
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
[email protected] Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--


31 Dec 2007 16:26:08
PromptJock
Re: Announcers

On Dec 31, 4:37=A0am, Bernie Cosell <[email protected] > wrote:
> My my... =A0I forgot there was no tournament this weekend and so I caught =
a
> tournament from 1995 on ESPNCL. =A0Announcers: Mike Durbin and Earl Anthon=
y.
> Brian Voss drops in to add commentary. =A0No "hambones". =A0No fake austra=
lian
> accents. =A0It was just wonderful.... =A0 [tournament was won by John
> Handegaard, who became the oldest person ever to win a PBA tournament.
> Playing a low-rev shot down-and-in on the 2nd arrow. =A0Oh, the good old
> days...:o)]

IM(NS)HO, if you're really "incensed, etc." at the current PBA
announcers and how they're doing, create a demo video showing How
Superior You Are At PBA Announcing and send it in to ESPN, along with
your (apparently impressive by implication) Broadcasting Resume, and
see if they'll replace Randy & Rob with you.

In the meantime, Happy New Year, etc...


01 Jan 2008 00:51:39
G
Re: Announcers


"PromptJock" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...
On Dec 31, 4:37 am, Bernie Cosell <[email protected] > wrote:
> My my... I forgot there was no tournament this weekend and so I caught a
> tournament from 1995 on ESPNCL. Announcers: Mike Durbin and Earl Anthony.
> Brian Voss drops in to add commentary. No "hambones". No fake australian
> accents. It was just wonderful.... [tournament was won by John
> Handegaard, who became the oldest person ever to win a PBA tournament.
> Playing a low-rev shot down-and-in on the 2nd arrow. Oh, the good old
> days...:o)]

IM(NS)HO, if you're really "incensed, etc." at the current PBA
announcers and how they're doing, create a demo video showing How
Superior You Are At PBA Announcing and send it in to ESPN, along with
your (apparently impressive by implication) Broadcasting Resume, and
see if they'll replace Randy & Rob with you.

In the meantime, Happy New Year, etc...

I didnt take it that he was incensed, he was only expressing his opinion,
wasnt even attacking anyone personally, that was a bit rough dont you think?
wait a minute, you wouldnt be randy ...in disguise would you?




01 Jan 2008 01:24:50
PromptJock
Re: Announcers

On Jan 1, 12:51=A0am, "G" <[email protected] > wrote:
> "PromptJock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]m...
> On Dec 31, 4:37 am, Bernie Cosell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > My my... I forgot there was no tournament this weekend and so I caught a=

> > tournament from 1995 on ESPNCL. Announcers: Mike Durbin and Earl Anthony=
.
> > Brian Voss drops in to add commentary. No "hambones". No fake australian=

> > accents. It was just wonderful.... [tournament was won by John
> > Handegaard, who became the oldest person ever to win a PBA tournament.
> > Playing a low-rev shot down-and-in on the 2nd arrow. Oh, the good old
> > days...:o)]
>
> IM(NS)HO, if you're really "incensed, etc." at the current PBA
> announcers and how they're doing, create a demo video showing How
> Superior You Are At PBA Announcing and send it in to ESPN, along with
> your (apparently impressive by implication) Broadcasting Resume, and
> see if they'll replace Randy & Rob with you.
>
> In the meantime, Happy New Year, etc...
>
> I didnt take it that he was incensed, he was only expressing his opinion,
> wasnt even attacking anyone personally, that was a bit rough dont you thin=
k?
> wait a minute, you wouldnt be randy ...in disguise would you?

No, I'm not Randy - I'm a regular bowler like you and others here who
enjoy the PBA broadcasts and is simply tired of "bash posts" regarding
the ESPN PBA announcing.

I stand by my "rough" reply: anyone who "chronically" complains about
the "format, etc." of the PBA and/or the current ESPN announcing team
needs to Put Their Money, etc. Where Their Mouths Are and tangibly
demonstrate they can either operate the PBA better than it is being
done (i.e., make it MORE profitable, guarantee LARGER prizes for the
winners, GENERATE MORE media coverage) or moderate/announce/etc. the
broadcasts better than Randy and Rob. Until then, please behave like
mature adults and keep your petulant whines, etc. to yourselves...


01 Jan 2008 09:03:10
Bernie Cosell
Re: Announcers

PromptJock <[email protected] > wrote:

} On Dec 31, 4:37 am, Bernie Cosell <[email protected] > wrote:
} > My my...  I forgot there was no tournament this weekend and so I caught a
} > tournament from 1995 on ESPNCL.  Announcers: Mike Durbin and Earl Anthony.
} > Brian Voss drops in to add commentary.  No "hambones".  No fake australian
} > accents.  It was just wonderful....   [tournament was won by John
} > Handegaard, who became the oldest person ever to win a PBA tournament.
} > Playing a low-rev shot down-and-in on the 2nd arrow.  Oh, the good old
} > days...:o)]
}
} IM(NS)HO, if you're really "incensed, etc." at the current PBA
} announcers and how they're doing, create a demo video showing How
} Superior You Are At PBA Announcing and send it in to ESPN,

What are you talking about? And what are you quoting with "incensed, etc"?
[it is an odd commentary style to be making up quotes to use to argue
against]. I was just comparing two generations of ESPN announcers. If you
think that Randy and Rob are better than Mike and Earl, that's fine; I
don't.

/Bernie
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
[email protected] Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--


01 Jan 2008 06:37:52
Re: Announcers

On Jan 1, 9:03=A0am, Bernie Cosell <[email protected] > wrote:

> =A0If you think that Randy and Rob are better than Mike and Earl...

Mike and Earl were very good. We watched the 1995 Masters final rounds
sitting near them in the stands as they scoped out the action. They
spent hours watching the competition and talking to the players so
they would have a lot of info to talk about during the actual show.

Holman was good in the booth as well. Once Chris and Bo hung it up I
think the show has always been better with two bowlers in the booth as
opposed to a bowler and a professional sports announcer.

Pedersen certainly is a great player. Remember he has double digit
national titles and except for a couple of breaks in the last couple
years he'd still be exempt. I don't think he ever recovered from the 8
pin. My humble opinion -- if he'd just tone it down a notch he'd have
more fans of his announcing.

Mark


01 Jan 2008 16:40:02
PromptJock
Re: Announcers

> I was just comparing two generations of ESPN announcers. =A0If you
> think that Randy and Rob are better than Mike and Earl, that's fine; I
> don't.

OK, Bernie, you think that the Announcers Of Yore are better than
Those Of Today? Fair enough.

For the record:
* I would LOVE to see the PBA back on a Major Network (i.e., NBC)
and aired at a better time (i.e., Saturday afternoon @ 1:00 PM) like
it was in the 60's & 70's when I was growing up (I'm 48).
* I, too, would LOVE to have Chris Schenkel, Earl Anthony, etal.
back in the announcer's booth.
* I'd even LOVE to have DAVE RYAN back with Randy!
* I'd LOVE to see 60's & 70's PRIME TIME programming made today
instead of what is on today.
* I'd LOVE to have 60's & 70's type MUSIC on the radio instead of
what is aired today.
* I'd LOVE to have all the "snack foods" from the 60's & 70's
available for retail purchase.
* ...and other such Good Things from my 60's/70's youth instead of
what's today.

However, today IS NOT the 60's & 70's when I was growing up, which
means we CAN NOT have the PBA Announcers Of Yore or the PBA Of Yore or
Anything Of Yore for that matter. Therefore, to complain, etc. about
HOW the PBA is being handled, HOW the announcers are doing, HOW
"SMALL" the prizes are, etc. is nothing more than being immature and
childish, and above all ** UNGRATEFUL AS ALL GET OUT ** that the PBA
tour even exists in any form at all!

This is why I replied as I did. In my opinion, all who (seem to)
prefer The "Good Old Days, etc." of the PBA (based on WHEN they first
saw it on TV) need to do one or more of the following:
* PONY-UP their own money and BUY OUT the PBA from the current
Seattle-based ownership so they can Make It The Way They "Think It
Should Be, etc." with better prizes, better promotion, etc. (please
don't forget about reviving the LADIES' TOUR as well!).
* AUDITION for Randy and/or Rob's spot, via video demo, and prove
to ESPN and The PBA Viewership that he/she Can Do A Much Better
Announcing Job.
* GROW UP and accept that "Today's PBA" Is How It Is, ENJOY the
fact it does exist, and BE VERY GRATEFUL that someone cares enough
about the sport to risk their personal capital to even ensure its'
existence, and LEARN TO "FILTER OUT" those parts of the programming
that Annoy, etc. You, so you can better enjoy what is being presented!

Finally, I suggest y'all visit the PBA web site (www.pba.com) and read
Randy's "blog" entries, especially where he tells everyone to "Give
Rob a chance!" Remember, Randy is WAY MORE INFORMED AND INVOLVED THAN
YOU ARE regarding the "innards" of the PBA, so he's a very credible
Primary Information Source.

Thanx for making it this far. This is my last opinion post on this
subject (and related ones)....


02 Jan 2008 08:07:24
Bernie Cosell
Re: Announcers

PromptJock <[email protected] > wrote:

} > I was just comparing two generations of ESPN announcers.  If you
} > think that Randy and Rob are better than Mike and Earl, that's fine; I
} > don't.
}
} OK, Bernie, you think that the Announcers Of Yore are better than
} Those Of Today? Fair enough.

[...]

} * GROW UP and accept that "Today's PBA" Is How It Is, ENJOY the
} fact it does exist, and BE VERY GRATEFUL that someone cares enough
} about the sport to risk their personal capital to even ensure its'
} existence, and LEARN TO "FILTER OUT" those parts of the programming
} that Annoy, etc. You, so you can better enjoy what is being presented!

Perhaps, but the announcing team's tone is *SUCH* a departure from every
previous team's tone, it is hard just to "sit back and watch" and not
comment. Even if Rob is a complete newcomer to bowling, I don't see why he
can't put in the time to learn what it's about -- so he spends a bunch of
time in the ESPN library [or just watching ESPNCL for heaven's sake] to
learn what bowling's about, the terminology, what his role vis a vis
Randy's role ought to be, etc. It seems VERY unprofessional of him not
only *NOT* to be prepared, but to _flaunt_ his ignorance and make *US* have
to watch him learn to say "four bagger".

} Finally, I suggest y'all visit the PBA web site (www.pba.com) and read
} Randy's "blog" entries, especially where he tells everyone to "Give
} Rob a chance!" Remember, Randy is WAY MORE INFORMED AND INVOLVED THAN
} YOU ARE regarding the "innards" of the PBA, so he's a very credible
} Primary Information Source.

As you say, Randy says:

Give him some time to learn our sport. Remember, he came in not
knowing ANYTHING about bowling.

And I say: if Rob's a professional, he could/should have watched scores of
previous shows. It isn't hard to learn the terminology, to see how the
various announcer 'teams' got along, how they divided up their roles, etc.
It'd be one thing if he were filling in in an emergency, but if it is
*his*job* I think he could go about it in a more professional way.

OTOH, It looks to me that his ignorance and ill-informed enthusiasm was
intentional... some sort of plan to give a gee-whiz factor to the
broadcasts, I dunno: perhaps to attract other viewers who don't really have
a clue about bowling rather than targeting the broadcasts at the
cognoscenti [who, as we know, will thankfully watch it *anyway*, regardless
of how good or bad the announcing or the format it]. on the theory,
perhaps, that his naive enthusiasm would transfer to the viewers and draw
in more casual ones, rather than just pitching the broadcast to the
hardcore bowlers. [I note the same about Randy's blog: he is a great
bowler, clearly knows everyone and *TONS* about bowling, but also clearly
"tones it down" on the broadcast -- in contrast to the Anthony/Durbin
commentary where they were talking about how recently the lanes had been
resurfaced and other pretty-technical matters.

So perhaps what we are [or at least "I am"] seeing is a conscious decision
on ESPN's [or the PBA's] part to dumb-down the broadcasts, at least a
little, to try to get a larger audience. Further evidence of that, now
that I think about it, is having that interlude they called the "skills
challenge" [sic], as opposed to things like the old-days "Rolaids tip of
the week" which was still pretty elementary stuff, but obvious pitched at
bowlers, as opposed to casual viewer. By contrast, the 'skills challenge'
was clearly pitched at folk who had little clue about bowling.

If that's the case, then I bow to Chris and friends: as you point out, it
is their money and their marketing plan, and I can only hope that their
plan works and the PBA not only doesn't just keep going but prospers. We
can just deal with the reality that our viewership is assumed and largely
taken for granted and hope that the telecasts don't get *too* painful to
watch. OTOH, if they think that Rob has the potential to blossom into a
new Chris Schenkel or Denny Schreiner, I doubt that very much [since he is
taking, IMO, *way* too long to do his homework].

/Bernie
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
[email protected] Pearisburg, VA
-- > Too many people, too few sheep <--


02 Jan 2008 16:44:48
G
Re: Announcers


"PromptJock" <[email protected] > wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...
> I was just comparing two generations of ESPN announcers. If you
> think that Randy and Rob are better than Mike and Earl, that's fine; I
> don't.

OK, Bernie, you think that the Announcers Of Yore are better than
Those Of Today? Fair enough.

For the record:
* I would LOVE to see the PBA back on a Major Network (i.e., NBC)
and aired at a better time (i.e., Saturday afternoon @ 1:00 PM) like
it was in the 60's & 70's when I was growing up (I'm 48).
* I, too, would LOVE to have Chris Schenkel, Earl Anthony, etal.
back in the announcer's booth.
* I'd even LOVE to have DAVE RYAN back with Randy!
* I'd LOVE to see 60's & 70's PRIME TIME programming made today
instead of what is on today.
* I'd LOVE to have 60's & 70's type MUSIC on the radio instead of
what is aired today.
* I'd LOVE to have all the "snack foods" from the 60's & 70's
available for retail purchase.
* ...and other such Good Things from my 60's/70's youth instead of
what's today.

However, today IS NOT the 60's & 70's when I was growing up, which
means we CAN NOT have the PBA Announcers Of Yore or the PBA Of Yore or
Anything Of Yore for that matter. Therefore, to complain, etc. about
HOW the PBA is being handled, HOW the announcers are doing, HOW
"SMALL" the prizes are, etc. is nothing more than being immature and
childish, and above all ** UNGRATEFUL AS ALL GET OUT ** that the PBA
tour even exists in any form at all!

This is why I replied as I did. In my opinion, all who (seem to)
prefer The "Good Old Days, etc." of the PBA (based on WHEN they first
saw it on TV) need to do one or more of the following:
* PONY-UP their own money and BUY OUT the PBA from the current
Seattle-based ownership so they can Make It The Way They "Think It
Should Be, etc." with better prizes, better promotion, etc. (please
don't forget about reviving the LADIES' TOUR as well!).
* AUDITION for Randy and/or Rob's spot, via video demo, and prove
to ESPN and The PBA Viewership that he/she Can Do A Much Better
Announcing Job.
* GROW UP and accept that "Today's PBA" Is How It Is, ENJOY the
fact it does exist, and BE VERY GRATEFUL that someone cares enough
about the sport to risk their personal capital to even ensure its'
existence, and LEARN TO "FILTER OUT" those parts of the programming
that Annoy, etc. You, so you can better enjoy what is being presented!

Finally, I suggest y'all visit the PBA web site (www.pba.com) and read
Randy's "blog" entries, especially where he tells everyone to "Give
Rob a chance!" Remember, Randy is WAY MORE INFORMED AND INVOLVED THAN
YOU ARE regarding the "innards" of the PBA, so he's a very credible
Primary Information Source.

Thanx for making it this far. This is my last opinion post on this
subject (and related ones)....

I happen to like Randy as announcer even though he goes off in some strange
places but even that isnt bad, mostly he's informative, funny and
entertaining, sorry I cant say that for his booth partner but what the heck,
I guess they drew straws and he lost so now he's a bowling announcer, (I'm a
huge bowling fan) but onto my point that has nothing to do with the
announcing. This forum is for all to express their opinions, good and bad.
It's unfortunate that there has to be those that abuse this forum and post
some very inappropriate post but thats the nature of the beast. To
chastize or be rough with someone that is merely stating his opinion whether
you agree with it, become tired of it or disagree with it, is also
borderline inappropriate especially if that opinion is well thought out and
not personally attacking anyone else........how boring would this forum be
if we all agreed with each other?

just my 2 cents....

G




03 Jan 2008 08:06:49
Re: Announcers

On Jan 2, 7:44 pm, "G" <[email protected] > wrote:
>
> ......................
>
> just my 2 cents....
>
> G

Dang. Thank god you didn't have a nickel; you woulda overflowed the
Usenet.


03 Jan 2008 13:37:14
JohnO
Re: Announcers

>> ......................
>>
>> just my 2 cents....
>>
>> G
>
> Dang. Thank god you didn't have a nickel; you woulda overflowed the
> Usenet.

Anybody with that kind of passion about bowling is cool by me.

-John O




03 Jan 2008 12:51:42
G
Re: Announcers


"JohnO" <[email protected]@&%heathkit##.com > wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>>> ......................
>>>
>>> just my 2 cents....
>>>
>>> G
>>
>> Dang. Thank god you didn't have a nickel; you woulda overflowed the
>> Usenet.
>
> Anybody with that kind of passion about bowling is cool by me.
>
> -John O
>

thank you