16 Apr 2006 21:37:42
Robert Henderson
The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:

"The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related
payment scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU
and Kolpak imports.
This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will
rise to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very
few signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the
Northamptonshire 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a
Kolpak deal.
Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl
Willoughby by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing
commitment to their home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the
development of their 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.
Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion,
these players are not that much better than our own anyway.
Statistics kindly provided by Robert Henderson prove that in the past
two seasons the performances of EU/Kolpak players have scarcely bettered
those of English-qualified ones. In 2004 the EU/Kolpak batsmen averaged
32.67, the English 32.46; in 2005, 32.88 compared to 30.84. In 2004 the
EU/Kolpak bowlers averaged 36.62, the English doing better with 35.33;
in 2005, almost identical with 34.74 compared to 34.91.
Naturally the official overseas players performed better than both
these groups, but that can be offset by the absence of England's finest
on international duty.
However, the absurdly late decisions of the Australians Mike
Kasprowicz (Glamorgan), Mike Hussey (Durham), Nathan Bracken
(Worcestershire) and Mitchell Johnson (Essex) to renege on county
contracts as overseas players serve only to emphasise that, certainly to
our antipodean friends, county cricket is little more than a plaything.
"
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


16 Apr 2006 22:43:43
Buzz
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

Fuck off Hitler!

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:9S8wYWEWsqQEFwNY@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>
> Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:
>
> "The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related payment
> scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU and Kolpak
> imports.
> This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
> which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
> match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will
> rise to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very
> few signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the Northamptonshire
> 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a Kolpak deal.
> Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl
> Willoughby by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing
> commitment to their home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the
> development of their 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.
> Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion,
> these players are not that much better than our own anyway.
> Statistics kindly provided by Robert Henderson prove that in the past
> two seasons the performances of EU/Kolpak players have scarcely bettered
> those of English-qualified ones. In 2004 the EU/Kolpak batsmen averaged
> 32.67, the English 32.46; in 2005, 32.88 compared to 30.84. In 2004 the
> EU/Kolpak bowlers averaged 36.62, the English doing better with 35.33; in
> 2005, almost identical with 34.74 compared to 34.91.
> Naturally the official overseas players performed better than both these
> groups, but that can be offset by the absence of England's finest on
> international duty.
> However, the absurdly late decisions of the Australians Mike Kasprowicz
> (Glamorgan), Mike Hussey (Durham), Nathan Bracken (Worcestershire) and
> Mitchell Johnson (Essex) to renege on county contracts as overseas players
> serve only to emphasise that, certainly to our antipodean friends, county
> cricket is little more than a plaything. "
> --
> Robert Henderson
> Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
> Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk




16 Apr 2006 22:14:28
max.it
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 21:37:42 +0100, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote:

>
>Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:
>
>"The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related
>payment scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU
>and Kolpak imports.
> This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
>which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
>match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will
>rise to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very
>few signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the
>Northamptonshire 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a
>Kolpak deal.
> Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl
>Willoughby by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing
>commitment to their home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the
>development of their 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.
> Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion,
>these players are not that much better than our own anyway.
> Statistics kindly provided by Robert Henderson prove that in the past
>two seasons the performances of EU/Kolpak players have scarcely bettered
>those of English-qualified ones. In 2004 the EU/Kolpak batsmen averaged
>32.67, the English 32.46; in 2005, 32.88 compared to 30.84. In 2004 the
>EU/Kolpak bowlers averaged 36.62, the English doing better with 35.33;
>in 2005, almost identical with 34.74 compared to 34.91.
> Naturally the official overseas players performed better than both
>these groups, but that can be offset by the absence of England's finest
>on international duty.
> However, the absurdly late decisions of the Australians Mike
>Kasprowicz (Glamorgan), Mike Hussey (Durham), Nathan Bracken
>(Worcestershire) and Mitchell Johnson (Essex) to renege on county
>contracts as overseas players serve only to emphasise that, certainly to
>our antipodean friends, county cricket is little more than a plaything.
>"
>--
>Robert Henderson
>Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
>Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk

That's very good Robert, well done

As you know Ireland haven't reached that stage yet,
and 6 from 11 on squad Irishmen (both breeds) worries me.
The regulations of the ICU / Icc / ECC/Ncu., and the poor old donkey,
make provision for overseas players, in certain circumstances.
In comparison, Ireland in the past were every bit as good as SA, WI,
Oz, and all England selections, other testies were not even born then.
So on this Easter Sunday, and the 90th anniversary of youknowwhat,
lets hope that, that if we really want to have a representitive team
for either Islands, we should first produce the players who will null
/ void, the various playability regulations, and make the mark on
merit. I'm pretty sure that a lot/ a load , of potential English
players are stuffed by work ethic, professional attitiude....etc.

max.it


17 Apr 2006 08:26:27
Andrew McGee
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


"Buzz" <s@s.nothere.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4NSdnbeHFqkPJ9_ZRVnyiA@karoo.co.uk...
> Fuck off Hitler!
>
> "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:9S8wYWEWsqQEFwNY@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:
>>
>> "The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related payment
>> scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU and
>> Kolpak imports.
>> This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
>> which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
>> match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will
>> rise to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very
>> few signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the Northamptonshire
>> 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a Kolpak deal.
>> Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl
>> Willoughby by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing
>> commitment to their home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the
>> development of their 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.
>> Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion,
>> these players are not that much better than our own anyway.
>> Statistics kindly provided by Robert Henderson prove that in the past
>> two seasons the performances of EU/Kolpak players have scarcely bettered
>> those of English-qualified ones.

But surely the question is whether they have done better than would have the
players they kept out of the side.





17 Apr 2006 08:30:24
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"max.it" <max@teatime.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4442bcfd.46373710@news.btopenworld.com...
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 21:37:42 +0100, Robert Henderson
> <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:
>>
>>"The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related
>>payment scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU
>>and Kolpak imports.
>> This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
>>which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
>>match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will
>>rise to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very
>>few signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the
>>Northamptonshire 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a
>>Kolpak deal.
>> Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl
>>Willoughby by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing
>>commitment to their home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the
>>development of their 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.

Quite frankly, unless the rest of the bowling improves dramatically compared to
last year, noting also that the pace bowlers who were 2nd, 3rd and 4th in
Somerset's CC averages last year have all left, and that our two official o/s
players both bowl spin, if Woodman's any good, he should walk into the side,
even if it does mean fielding two left-arm pacemen.

>> Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion,
>>these players are not that much better than our own anyway.

What popular opinion? These players are mostly those who don't think they are
good enough to make it at international level, as they effectively have to rule
themselves out of selection for their national side.

--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




17 Apr 2006 08:42:31
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


"Andrew McGee" <amhome@btopenworld.com > wrote in message
news:weadnesEqruo3t7ZnZ2dnUVZ8qCdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Buzz" <s@s.nothere.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4NSdnbeHFqkPJ9_ZRVnyiA@karoo.co.uk...
>> Fuck off Hitler!
>>
>> "Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:9S8wYWEWsqQEFwNY@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>>>
>>> Steve James in the Sunday Telegraph 16 42006 wrote:
>>>
>>> "The England and Wales Cricket Board's shrewd performance-related payment
>>> scheme has finally given most counties the collywobbles over EU and Kolpak
>>> imports.
>>> This year, as last, they will be 'fined' 85 for each one-day game in
>>> which any such player takes part and a further 340 for every four-day
>>> match. Small beer really, but, crucially, next year those figures will rise
>>> to 275 and 1,100 respectively. Consequently there have been very few
>>> signings, but inevitably one of them has been by the Northamptonshire
>>> 'Steelboks' who have snapped up Lance Klusener on a Kolpak deal.
>>> Another more disappointing capture is that of left-armer Charl Willoughby
>>> by Somerset, a county who last year showed a refreshing commitment to their
>>> home-grown talent, but are surely hindering the development of their
>>> 19-year-old left-armer Robert Woodman.
>>> Interestingly, there is evidence that, contrary to popular opinion, these
>>> players are not that much better than our own anyway.
>>> Statistics kindly provided by Robert Henderson prove that in the past two
>>> seasons the performances of EU/Kolpak players have scarcely bettered those
>>> of English-qualified ones.
>
> But surely the question is whether they have done better than would have the
> players they kept out of the side.

Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did still
make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than those who
didn't.

Also, of course, if the number of opportunities for lesser England-qualified
players increases as a result of there being an incentive, we should expect the
averages of the England-qualified players as a group to get worse, and those of
the EU/Kolpak group to get better, as the counties will have to be more
selective.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




18 Apr 2006 13:47:43
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4442bcfd.46373710@news.btopenworld.com >, max.it
<max@teatime.co.uk > writes
>
>That's very good Robert, well done
>
>As you know Ireland haven't reached that stage yet, and 6 from 11 on
>squad Irishmen (both breeds) worries me. The regulations of the ICU /
>Icc / ECC/Ncu., and the poor old donkey, make provision for overseas
>players, in certain circumstances. In comparison, Ireland in the past
>were every bit as good as SA, WI, Oz, and all England selections, other
>testies were not even born then. So on this Easter Sunday, and the 90th
>anniversary of youknowwhat, lets hope that, that if we really want to
>have a representitive team for either Islands, we should first produce
>the players who will null / void, the various playability regulations,
>and make the mark on merit. I'm pretty sure that a lot/ a load , of
>potential English players are stuffed by work ethic, professional
>attitiude....etc.

It won't work. The counties are run by those who don't care about the
England side. All the care about is a quick fix. The fix doesn't work
more often than not of course, but they still do it so they can say look
we did our best.

In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


18 Apr 2006 13:51:47
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <weadnesEqruo3t7ZnZ2dnUVZ8qCdnZ2d@bt.com >, Andrew McGee
<amhome@btopenworld.com > writes
>>> those of English-qualified ones.
>
>But surely the question is whether they have done better than would
>have the players they kept out of the side.

No it isn't, the question is what is in the English ethnic interest.
The logic of your mentality is that English cricket would be strongest
without any new Englishman ever being give a chance.

Your mentality is literally suicidal. You have no sense of nation, no
sense of defending your national interest.

You are also wrong on the statistical point. The English overall average
is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so leading English players from
almost all the Championship.

The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced
players. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


18 Apr 2006 13:52:36
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4agv70Frspf3U1@individual.net >, David North
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > writes
>>
>> But surely the question is whether they have done better than would have the
>> players they kept out of the side.
>
>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that
>did still make the side, it surely follows that they have been better
>than those who didn't.

No it isn't, the question is what is in the English ethnic interest.
The logic of your mentality is that English cricket would be strongest
without any new Englishman ever being give a chance.

Your mentality is literally suicidal. You have no sense of nation, no
sense of defending your national interest.

You are also wrong on the statistical point. The English overall average
is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so leading English players from
almost all the Championship.

The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced
players. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


18 Apr 2006 15:35:13
Luke Curtis
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:43 +0100, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote:

>In message <4442bcfd.46373710@news.btopenworld.com>, max.it
><max@teatime.co.uk> writes
>>
>>That's very good Robert, well done
>>
>>As you know Ireland haven't reached that stage yet, and 6 from 11 on
>>squad Irishmen (both breeds) worries me. The regulations of the ICU /
>>Icc / ECC/Ncu., and the poor old donkey, make provision for overseas
>>players, in certain circumstances. In comparison, Ireland in the past
>>were every bit as good as SA, WI, Oz, and all England selections, other
>>testies were not even born then. So on this Easter Sunday, and the 90th
>>anniversary of youknowwhat, lets hope that, that if we really want to
>>have a representitive team for either Islands, we should first produce
>>the players who will null / void, the various playability regulations,
>>and make the mark on merit. I'm pretty sure that a lot/ a load , of
>>potential English players are stuffed by work ethic, professional
>>attitiude....etc.
>
>It won't work. The counties are run by those who don't care about the
>England side. All the care about is a quick fix. The fix doesn't work
>more often than not of course, but they still do it so they can say look
>we did our best.

I have no problem with experienced internationals being brought in to
give experience, after all I dare anyone to tell me that Botham didn't
benefit from being in the same team as Viv Richards....

>
>In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
>paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
>RH
erm, the team from Monday:

Schwarzer- Australian
Bates - English
Riggott, English
Wheater - English
Queudrue - French
Maccarone - Italian
Doriva - Brazilian
Parlour, 33 year old English
Johnson - English
Hasselbaink - Dutch
Viduka - Australian

Better than Arse-nal granted (that would not be difficult!) but hardly
exceptional, for a better example choose Tottenham, Saturdays match:

Robinson - English
Stalteri - Canadian
Gardner English
King - English
Lee - S Korea
Lennon - English
Carrick - English
Jenas - English
Tainio - Finnish
Murphy - English
Keane - Irish
Defoe - English

--
ButIstillneedtoknowwhat'sinthere! Thekeytoanysecurity
systemishowit'sdesigned! Thatdependsonwhyitwasdesigned!
Ihavetoknowwhatwhoeverdesigneditwastryingtoprotect!
(Blakes 7, City on the Edge of the World - Vila in typical panic mode)


18 Apr 2006 18:03:36
David Lewis
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


"Luke Curtis" <luke@NOSPAMwhofan.plus.NOSEPRAMcom > wrote in message
news:q6s9429mfsfi6qao1sq0qcn3pnvebpgd6m@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:43 +0100, Robert Henderson
> <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In message <4442bcfd.46373710@news.btopenworld.com>, max.it
> ><max@teatime.co.uk> writes
> >>
> >>That's very good Robert, well done
> >>
> >>As you know Ireland haven't reached that stage yet, and 6 from 11 on
> >>squad Irishmen (both breeds) worries me. The regulations of the ICU /
> >>Icc / ECC/Ncu., and the poor old donkey, make provision for overseas
> >>players, in certain circumstances. In comparison, Ireland in the past
> >>were every bit as good as SA, WI, Oz, and all England selections, other
> >>testies were not even born then. So on this Easter Sunday, and the 90th
> >>anniversary of youknowwhat, lets hope that, that if we really want to
> >>have a representitive team for either Islands, we should first produce
> >>the players who will null / void, the various playability regulations,
> >>and make the mark on merit. I'm pretty sure that a lot/ a load , of
> >>potential English players are stuffed by work ethic, professional
> >>attitiude....etc.
> >
> >It won't work. The counties are run by those who don't care about the
> >England side. All the care about is a quick fix. The fix doesn't work
> >more often than not of course, but they still do it so they can say look
> >we did our best.
>
> I have no problem with experienced internationals being brought in to
> give experience, after all I dare anyone to tell me that Botham didn't
> benefit from being in the same team as Viv Richards....
>
> >
> >In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
> >paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
> >RH
> erm, the team from Monday:
>
> Schwarzer- Australian
> Bates - English
> Riggott, English
> Wheater - English
> Queudrue - French
> Maccarone - Italian
> Doriva - Brazilian
> Parlour, 33 year old English
> Johnson - English
> Hasselbaink - Dutch
> Viduka - Australian
>
> Better than Arse-nal granted (that would not be difficult!) but hardly
> exceptional, for a better example choose Tottenham, Saturdays match:
>
> Robinson - English
> Stalteri - Canadian
> Gardner English
> King - English
> Lee - S Korea
> Lennon - English
> Carrick - English
> Jenas - English
> Tainio - Finnish
> Murphy - English
> Keane - Irish
> Defoe - English
>
> --
... not that Henderson would view King, Lennon, Jenas & Defoe as English,
but that's another matter.




18 Apr 2006 20:37:31
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Luke Curtis" <luke@NOSPAMwhofan.plus.NOSEPRAMcom > wrote in message
news:q6s9429mfsfi6qao1sq0qcn3pnvebpgd6m@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:47:43 +0100, Robert Henderson
> <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <4442bcfd.46373710@news.btopenworld.com>, max.it
>><max@teatime.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>That's very good Robert, well done
>>>
>>>As you know Ireland haven't reached that stage yet, and 6 from 11 on
>>>squad Irishmen (both breeds) worries me. The regulations of the ICU /
>>>Icc / ECC/Ncu., and the poor old donkey, make provision for overseas
>>>players, in certain circumstances. In comparison, Ireland in the past
>>>were every bit as good as SA, WI, Oz, and all England selections, other
>>>testies were not even born then. So on this Easter Sunday, and the 90th
>>>anniversary of youknowwhat, lets hope that, that if we really want to
>>>have a representitive team for either Islands, we should first produce
>>>the players who will null / void, the various playability regulations,
>>>and make the mark on merit. I'm pretty sure that a lot/ a load , of
>>>potential English players are stuffed by work ethic, professional
>>>attitiude....etc.
>>
>>It won't work. The counties are run by those who don't care about the
>>England side. All the care about is a quick fix. The fix doesn't work
>>more often than not of course, but they still do it so they can say look
>>we did our best.
>
> I have no problem with experienced internationals being brought in to
> give experience, after all I dare anyone to tell me that Botham didn't
> benefit from being in the same team as Viv Richards....
>
>>
>>In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
>>paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
>>RH
> erm, the team from Monday:
>
> Schwarzer- Australian
> Bates - English
> Riggott, English
> Wheater - English
> Queudrue - French
> Maccarone - Italian
> Doriva - Brazilian
> Parlour, 33 year old English
> Johnson - English
> Hasselbaink - Dutch
> Viduka - Australian

There were more English players playing against Middlesbrough yesterday than for
them.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




18 Apr 2006 21:34:02
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:7XdhJuCUEOREFwET@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <4agv70Frspf3U1@individual.net>, David North
> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>> But surely the question is whether they have done better than would have the
>>> players they kept out of the side.
>>
>>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did still
>>make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than those who
>>didn't.
>
> No it isn't,

Statistically, I meant.

>the question is what is in the English ethnic interest.

Ethnic schmethnic.

Anyway, if the important point is what is in the English interest (whatever
anyone wishes to take that to mean), then what have statistics got to do with
it? You were the one who spent ages generating them in the first place.

> The logic of your mentality is that English cricket would be strongest without
> any new Englishman ever being give a chance.
>
> Your mentality is literally suicidal.

I seem to have survived it so far.

> You have no sense of nation, no sense of defending your national interest.
>
> You are also wrong on the statistical point.

You have no sense of logic.

If A=B (i.e. the Kolpak/EU players were roughly as good as their English
team-mates)

and B >C (i.e. the English players in the county sides were generally better than
those who didn't make the teams)

then A >C.

> The English overall average is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so
> leading English players from almost all the Championship.

I never said it wasn't, but that is an entirely separate point, as it would be
true whether or not the Kolpak and EU players were present.

> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced players.
> RH

Not if your aim is to win matches and you have to choose one or the other.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




18 Apr 2006 22:29:31
Buzz
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

Fuck off Mein Kampf you Nazi Cunt!
"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:7XdhJuCUEOREFwET@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <4agv70Frspf3U1@individual.net>, David North
> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>> But surely the question is whether they have done better than would have
>>> the
>>> players they kept out of the side.
>>
>>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did
>>still make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than
>>those who didn't.
>
> No it isn't, the question is what is in the English ethnic interest. The
> logic of your mentality is that English cricket would be strongest without
> any new Englishman ever being give a chance.
>
> Your mentality is literally suicidal. You have no sense of nation, no
> sense of defending your national interest.
>
> You are also wrong on the statistical point. The English overall average
> is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so leading English players from
> almost all the Championship.
>
> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced
> players. RH
> --
> Robert Henderson
> Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
> Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk




19 Apr 2006 09:04:55
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4al0plFtq33tU1@individual.net >, David North
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > writes
>>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did still
>>make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than those who
>>didn't.
>>
>> No it isn't,
>
>Statistically, I meant.
>
You don't interpret the statistics correctly. RH

>>the question is what is in the English ethnic interest.
>
>Ethnic schmethnic.
>

Thank you for confirming that you have a suicidal mentality. RH

>Anyway, if the important point is what is in the English interest
>(whatever anyone wishes to take that to mean), then what have
>statistics got to do with it? You were the one who spent ages
>generating them in the first place.

Because the claim is made that they improve the quality of our game.
Manifestly they don't. RH
>
>> The logic of your mentality is that English cricket would be strongest without
>> any new Englishman ever being give a chance.
>>
>> Your mentality is literally suicidal.
>
>I seem to have survived it so far.
>

It's about your nation not about you. RH

>> You have no sense of nation, no sense of defending your national interest.
>>
>> You are also wrong on the statistical point.
>
>You have no sense of logic.
>
>If A=B (i.e. the Kolpak/EU players were roughly as good as their
>English team-mates)
>
>and B>C (i.e. the English players in the county sides were generally
>better than those who didn't make the teams)
>
>then A>C.
>

Absurd argument because until a new English player is tried it is
impossible to know how good they are. There plenty of high performing
second XI English players who never get a chance. RH

>> The English overall average is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so
>> leading English players from almost all the Championship.
>
>I never said it wasn't, but that is an entirely separate point, as it
>would be true whether or not the Kolpak and EU players were present.
>

No it isn't because you based your comments on the overall averages. RH

>> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
>> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced players.
>> RH
>
>Not if your aim is to win matches and you have to choose one or the
>other.

The logic of that is that you give no new English players a chance. RH

--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


19 Apr 2006 09:10:29
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <q6s9429mfsfi6qao1sq0qcn3pnvebpgd6m@4ax.com >, Luke Curtis
<luke@NOSPAMwhofan.plus.NOSEPRAMcom > writes
>>
>>In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
>>paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
>>RH
>erm, the team from Monday:
>
>Schwarzer- Australian
>Bates - English
>Riggott, English
>Wheater - English
>Queudrue - French
>Maccarone - Italian
>Doriva - Brazilian
>Parlour, 33 year old English
>Johnson - English
>Hasselbaink - Dutch
>Viduka - Australian

A couple of subs were also English.

Middlesborough's strongest English side would be:

Turnbull

Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis

Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing

Christie Graham

Other academy players who have played for the first team are Knight,
Johnson, Davies, Bates, Wheater, Murphy and the fight back whose name
is a I think McNeil. Those seven together with Turnbull, Parnaby,
Morrison, Downing, Cattermole and Graham make no less than 13 Academy
players who have graduated to the first team They all come from within
25 miles of Middlesborough. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


19 Apr 2006 05:21:35
Toby Briggs
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


Robert Henderson wrote:
> In message <q6s9429mfsfi6qao1sq0qcn3pnvebpgd6m@4ax.com>, Luke Curtis
> <luke@NOSPAMwhofan.plus.NOSEPRAMcom> writes
> >>
> >>In football Middlesborough give the lie to the idea that there is a
> >>paucity of English sporting talent. It just has to be given a chance.
> >>RH
> >erm, the team from Monday:
> >
> >Schwarzer- Australian
> >Bates - English
> >Riggott, English
> >Wheater - English
> >Queudrue - French
> >Maccarone - Italian
> >Doriva - Brazilian
> >Parlour, 33 year old English
> >Johnson - English
> >Hasselbaink - Dutch
> >Viduka - Australian
>
> A couple of subs were also English.
>
> Middlesborough's strongest English side would be:
>
> Turnbull
>
> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
>
> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
>
> Christie Graham
>

Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!

Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
good defender.



19 Apr 2006 13:36:32
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <1145449295.659657.117900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >, Toby
Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes
>>
>> Turnbull
>>
>> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
>>
>> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
>>
>> Christie Graham
>>
>
>Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
>and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!
>
>Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
>good defender.
>
Nope. Ehiog is neither first choice nor an academy member. rH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


19 Apr 2006 06:43:58
Toby Briggs
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


Robert Henderson wrote:
> In message <1145449295.659657.117900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
> >>
> >> Turnbull
> >>
> >> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
> >>
> >> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
> >>
> >> Christie Graham
> >>
> >
> >Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
> >and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!
> >
> >Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
> >good defender.
> >
> Nope. Ehiog is neither first choice nor an academy member. rH
>

If you are to play 3 at the back, with Southgate sweeping, then he
would be a first choice!



19 Apr 2006 13:48:14
Richard Dixon
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Toby Briggs" <toby.briggs@gmail.com > wrote in
news:1145454238.761062.205130@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> If you are to play 3 at the back, with Southgate sweeping, then he
> would be a first choice!

I think there may be an issue of "tint" here, funnily enough. Got an odd
feeling of deja vu.

Richard


19 Apr 2006 20:43:29
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:H2R+B9Gn8eREFwBM@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <4al0plFtq33tU1@individual.net>, David North
> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did
>>>still
>>>make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than those who
>>>didn't.
>>>
>>> No it isn't,
>>
>>Statistically, I meant.
>>
> You don't interpret the statistics correctly. RH

--snip--

>>Anyway, if the important point is what is in the English interest (whatever
>>anyone wishes to take that to mean), then what have statistics got to do with
>>it? You were the one who spent ages generating them in the first place.
>
> Because the claim is made that they improve the quality of our game.
> Manifestly they don't. RH

--snip--

>>> You are also wrong on the statistical point.
>>
>>You have no sense of logic.
>>
>>If A=B (i.e. the Kolpak/EU players were roughly as good as their English
>>team-mates)
>>
>>and B>C (i.e. the English players in the county sides were generally better
>>than those who didn't make the teams)
>>
>>then A>C.
>>
>
> Absurd argument because until a new English player is tried it is impossible
> to know how good they are. There plenty of high performing second XI English
> players who never get a chance. RH

My argument requires only the assumption that the county selectors will, more
often than not, pick players who will perform better than those left out would
have done during the season in question.

Also, many of the places taken by the Kolpak and EU players would otherwise have
been filled by players who had been around for years and played a fair amount of
FC cricket, and in those cases we do have a pretty good idea of how good they
are.

>>> The English overall average is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so
>>> leading English players from almost all the Championship.
>>
>>I never said it wasn't, but that is an entirely separate point, as it would be
>>true whether or not the Kolpak and EU players were present.
>>
>
> No it isn't because you based your comments on the overall averages. RH

And?

>>> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
>>> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced players.
>>> RH
>>
>>Not if your aim is to win matches and you have to choose one or the other.
>
> The logic of that is that you give no new English players a chance. RH

No, the logic of that is that you compare the novice with the experienced
player, gauge their relative abilities as best you can, weigh up your immediate
needs against the long-term development of your side (if necessary), and then
make a decision.

Your last statement suggests that you don't have a very high opinion of young
English players if you don't think any of them would ever break into a county
side based on their own abilities without being giving preferential treatment.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




19 Apr 2006 15:40:25
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <1145454238.761062.205130@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >, Toby
Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes
>
>Robert Henderson wrote:
>> In message <1145449295.659657.117900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
>> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
>> >>
>> >> Turnbull
>> >>
>> >> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
>> >>
>> >> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
>> >>
>> >> Christie Graham
>> >>
>> >
>> >Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
>> >and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!
>> >
>> >Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
>> >good defender.
>> >
>> Nope. Ehiog is neither first choice nor an academy member. rH
>>
>
>If you are to play 3 at the back, with Southgate sweeping, then he
>would be a first choice!
>
Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


20 Apr 2006 08:15:04
Richard Dixon
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in
news:Msuc3eHZvkREFwAL@anywhere.demon.co.uk:

> Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH

Robert - don't you ever have an "IMHO" or, in your mind, is your opinion
final? Just interested in how your mind works...

Richard


20 Apr 2006 03:28:33
Toby Briggs
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


Robert Henderson wrote:
> In message <1145454238.761062.205130@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
> >
> >Robert Henderson wrote:
> >> In message <1145449295.659657.117900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> >> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
> >> >>
> >> >> Turnbull
> >> >>
> >> >> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
> >> >>
> >> >> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
> >> >>
> >> >> Christie Graham
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
> >> >and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!
> >> >
> >> >Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
> >> >good defender.
> >> >
> >> Nope. Ehiog is neither first choice nor an academy member. rH
> >>
> >
> >If you are to play 3 at the back, with Southgate sweeping, then he
> >would be a first choice!
> >
> Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH

Nope - I beg to differ there. But the only reason I would doubt on Ugo
playing, is his poor fitness over the last couple of seasons.

Now if you were to argue it that way - then I would understand - but am
sure you have other reasons for selecting an England international over
an Academy player!



20 Apr 2006 05:19:49
Toby Briggs
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket


Toby Briggs wrote:
> Robert Henderson wrote:
> > In message <1145454238.761062.205130@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> > Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
> > >
> > >Robert Henderson wrote:
> > >> In message <1145449295.659657.117900@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> > >> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Turnbull
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Parnaby Southgate Riggott Davis
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Morrison Parlour Cattermole Downing
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Christie Graham
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >Which would see them relegated easily. Without the goals of JFH, Viduka
> > >> >and Maccarone - they'd be gonners!
> > >> >
> > >> >Think you missed out Ugo Ehiogu - who was, and still is, an extremely
> > >> >good defender.
> > >> >
> > >> Nope. Ehiog is neither first choice nor an academy member. rH
> > >>
> > >
> > >If you are to play 3 at the back, with Southgate sweeping, then he
> > >would be a first choice!
> > >
> > Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH
>
> Nope - I beg to differ there. But the only reason I would doubt on Ugo
> playing, is his poor fitness over the last couple of seasons.
>
> Now if you were to argue it that way - then I would understand - but am
> sure you have other reasons for *not* selecting an England international over
> an Academy player!

Typo corrected :-)



21 Apr 2006 05:07:01
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4ani6pFu6nbgU1@individual.net >, David North
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > writes
>>
>> Absurd argument because until a new English player is tried it is impossible
>> to know how good they are. There plenty of high performing second XI English
>> players who never get a chance. RH
>
>My argument requires only the assumption that the county selectors
>will, more often than not, pick players who will perform better than
>those left out would have done during the season in question.
>
>Also, many of the places taken by the Kolpak and EU players would
>otherwise have been filled by players who had been around for years and
>played a fair amount of FC cricket, and in those cases we do have a
>pretty good idea of how good they are.

There has to be a career structure for English cricketers. Only 11 can
represent England at any one time. Ergo, the vast majority will for most
of their careers be county cricketers. You need the career structure to
keep the weight of players available to England. Moreover, the more
English the [personnel the more sense of ethnic solidarity. RH
>
>>>> The English overall average is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so
>>>> leading English players from almost all the Championship.
>>>
>>>I never said it wasn't, but that is an entirely separate point, as it would be
>>>true whether or not the Kolpak and EU players were present.
>>>
>>
>> No it isn't because you based your comments on the overall averages. RH
>
>And?
>
It invalidates your argument. Rh

>>>> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
>>>> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced players.
>>>> RH
>>>
>>>Not if your aim is to win matches and you have to choose one or the other.
>>
>> The logic of that is that you give no new English players a chance. RH
>
>No, the logic of that is that you compare the novice with the
>experienced player, gauge their relative abilities as best you can,
>weigh up your immediate needs against the long-term development of your
>side (if necessary), and then make a decision.
>
>Your last statement suggests that you don't have a very high opinion of
>young English players if you don't think any of them would ever break
>into a county side based on their own abilities without being giving
>preferential treatment.
>--
This is demonstrable nonsense. Any number of English players perform
highly at second eleven level and never get a proper chance to prove
themselves. Take Rikki Clarke for example. Until Ben Hollioak was killed
he was left in the second XI. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


21 Apr 2006 05:08:12
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4aou88Fsss12U1@individual.net >, Richard Dixon
<rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk > writes
>Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>news:Msuc3eHZvkREFwAL@anywhere.demon.co.uk:
>
>> Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH
>
>Robert - don't you ever have an "IMHO" or, in your mind, is your opinion
>final? Just interested in how your mind works...
>
>Richard

Davies has been preferred to Ehiog all through this season.
Middlesborough were willing to let Ehiog go until Southgate was injured.
RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


21 Apr 2006 05:08:43
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <1145528913.063302.153680@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com >, Toby
Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com > writes
>>
>> Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH
>
>Nope - I beg to differ there. But the only reason I would doubt on Ugo
>playing, is his poor fitness over the last couple of seasons.

A good reason for not picking him. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


21 Apr 2006 06:56:06
Paul Hyett
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In uk.sport.cricket on Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote :
>
>There has to be a career structure for English cricketers. Only 11 can
>represent England at any one time. Ergo, the vast majority will for
>most of their careers be county cricketers. You need the career
>structure to keep the weight of players available to England. Moreover,
>the more English the [personnel the more sense of ethnic solidarity. RH

ISTM that professional pride will override any such considerations - and
since they play in mixed race country sides every day of the week, why
would it even be a factor?
>>
>>Your last statement suggests that you don't have a very high opinion
>>of young English players if you don't think any of them would ever
>>break into a county side based on their own abilities without being
>>giving preferential treatment.
>>--
>This is demonstrable nonsense. Any number of English players perform
>highly at second eleven level and never get a proper chance to prove
>themselves.

I don't believe this notion - if a player is good enough, he *will*
break through, whether he displaces an English or an overseas player. It
is team performance that counts, and a country will not pick an
under-performing overseas player just for the sake of it, if they have
someone better in reserve.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham


21 Apr 2006 08:24:41
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:asJZHXCLrFSEFwLN@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <1145528913.063302.153680@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, Toby
> Briggs <toby.briggs@gmail.com> writes
>>>
>>> Nope. Davies would be a better bet. . RH
>>
>>Nope - I beg to differ there. But the only reason I would doubt on Ugo
>>playing, is his poor fitness over the last couple of seasons.
>
> A good reason for not picking him. RH

or in your case, a good excuse.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




21 Apr 2006 20:22:07
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <h8aiZHPORHSEFwtv@blueyonder.co.uk >, Paul Hyett
<pah@invalid.invalid > writes
>>>--
>>This is demonstrable nonsense. Any number of English players perform
>>highly at second eleven level and never get a proper chance to prove
>>themselves.
>
>I don't believe this notion - if a player is good enough, he *will*
>break through, whether he displaces an English or an overseas player.
>It is team performance that counts, and a country will not pick an
>under-performing overseas player just for the sake of it, if they have
>someone better in reserve.

Thank you for displaying a complete lack of psychological and
sociological insight. rH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


21 Apr 2006 20:00:07
max.it
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:43:29 +0100, "David North"
<dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > wrote:

>"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:H2R+B9Gn8eREFwBM@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <4al0plFtq33tU1@individual.net>, David North
>> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>>>Exactly. As they have apparently been about on a par with those that did
>>>>still
>>>>make the side, it surely follows that they have been better than those who
>>>>didn't.
>>>>
>>>> No it isn't,
>>>
>>>Statistically, I meant.
>>>
>> You don't interpret the statistics correctly. RH
>
>--snip--
>

That you told off David.

Robert's idea would create a slump, say 5 years, if the idea works a
patch of winning might be expected. The bugger is in the slump period,

this is where cricket awareness will vanish. No heroes, means no
juniors and so on. ECB have spent a bomb on giving winning cricket a
face or faces, this is promoting cricket in the right areas.
I have a problem with G Jones, I think he is only on the team because
he is one of the "faces", that's not the point.
It has taken England a longer than five years to get to 2nd in the
test rankings, so if the team needs Anglofied then it would need to
happen very slowly, it must be on merit, cricket ethic and before all,
it must not be at the expense of another duly qualified and acceptable
player.


max.it

>David North
>Email to this address will be deleted as spam
>Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk
>
>



22 Apr 2006 07:30:02
Paul Hyett
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In uk.sport.cricket on Fri, 21 Apr 2006, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote :
>>>>--
>>>This is demonstrable nonsense. Any number of English players perform
>>>highly at second eleven level and never get a proper chance to prove
>>>themselves.
>>
>>I don't believe this notion - if a player is good enough, he *will*
>>break through, whether he displaces an English or an overseas player.
>>It is team performance that counts, and a country will not pick an
>>under-performing overseas player just for the sake of it, if they have
>>someone better in reserve.
>
>Thank you for displaying a complete lack of psychological and
>sociological insight. rH

How on earth is *anything* going to change when you display such a
negative/cynical attitude?

We need to *support* up & coming English players, not undermine them by
suggesting that no matter what they do, they'll have no chance.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham


22 Apr 2006 09:37:51
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <4XOUTeNducSEFw81@blueyonder.co.uk >, Paul Hyett
<pah@invalid.invalid > writes
>>>someone better in reserve.
>>
>>Thank you for displaying a complete lack of psychological and
>>sociological insight. rH
>
>How on earth is *anything* going to change when you display such a
>negative/cynical attitude?
>
>We need to *support* up & coming English players, not undermine them by
>suggesting that no matter what they do, they'll have no chance.
>--
They won't have an opportunity if our sides are filled by mercenaries.
RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk


22 Apr 2006 16:55:40
Paul Hyett
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Robert Henderson
<philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote :
>>>
>>>Thank you for displaying a complete lack of psychological and
>>>sociological insight. rH
>>
>>How on earth is *anything* going to change when you display such a
>>negative/cynical attitude?
>>
>>We need to *support* up & coming English players, not undermine them
>>by suggesting that no matter what they do, they'll have no chance.
>>--
>They won't have an opportunity if our sides are filled by mercenaries.
>RH

They *will* if they are good enough!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham


22 Apr 2006 17:59:56
Richard Dixon
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

Robert Henderson <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in
news:asJZHXCLrFSEFwLN@anywhere.demon.co.uk:

> A good reason for not picking him. RH

You seemed to bypass fitness as an issue on Blackwell when he was discussed
prior to the India series.

One rule for one person....

Richard


22 Apr 2006 20:19:19
David North
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

"Robert Henderson" <philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:oMiV$VBlpFSEFwOM@anywhere.demon.co.uk...
> In message <4ani6pFu6nbgU1@individual.net>, David North
> <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk> writes
>>>

>>>>> The English overall average is depressed by the absence of the 15 or so
>>>>> leading English players from almost all the Championship.
>>>>
>>>>I never said it wasn't, but that is an entirely separate point, as it would
>>>>be
>>>>true whether or not the Kolpak and EU players were present.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No it isn't because you based your comments on the overall averages. RH
>>
>>And?
>>
> It invalidates your argument. Rh

How?

>>>>> The Kolpeck/EU players should do better overall because they are all
>>>>> experienced FC players. Absurd to compare novices with experienced
>>>>> players.
>>>>> RH
>>>>
>>>>Not if your aim is to win matches and you have to choose one or the other.
>>>
>>> The logic of that is that you give no new English players a chance. RH
>>
>>No, the logic of that is that you compare the novice with the experienced
>>player, gauge their relative abilities as best you can, weigh up your
>>immediate needs against the long-term development of your side (if necessary),
>>and then make a decision.
>>
>>Your last statement suggests that you don't have a very high opinion of young
>>English players if you don't think any of them would ever break into a county
>>side based on their own abilities without being giving preferential treatment.
>>--
> This is demonstrable nonsense. Any number of English players perform highly at
> second eleven level and never get a proper chance to prove themselves. Take
> Rikki Clarke for example. Until Ben Hollioak was killed he was left in the
> second XI. RH

He was 20 when he made his FC debut - that's not exactly never, is it?
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




23 Apr 2006 06:26:05
Robert Henderson
Re: The penny drops with foreign mercenaries in county cricket

In message <cpF9soBxHhSEFwLK@blueyonder.co.uk >, Paul Hyett
<pah@invalid.invalid > writes
>In uk.sport.cricket on Sat, 22 Apr 2006, Robert Henderson
><philip@anywhere.demon.co.uk> wrote :
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for displaying a complete lack of psychological and
>>>>sociological insight. rH
>>>
>>>How on earth is *anything* going to change when you display such a
>>>negative/cynical attitude?
>>>
>>>We need to *support* up & coming English players, not undermine them
>>>by suggesting that no matter what they do, they'll have no chance.
>>>--
>>They won't have an opportunity if our sides are filled by mercenaries.
>>RH
>
>They *will* if they are good enough!

You will know if they are good enough if they don't get the chance. RH
--
Robert Henderson
Blair Scandal website: http://www.geocities.com/blairscandal/
Personal website: http://www.anywhere.demon.co.uk