16 Apr 2006 22:49:30
Tids
Hick

His last season...........hope its a blinder.
Really sorry he never really made it on
the England scene.





17 Apr 2006 10:16:32
Richard Dixon
Re: Hick

"Tids" <carroll@REMOVETOREPLYwaihi.co.uk > wrote in news:4442bbea$0$9230
$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:

> His last season...........hope its a blinder.
> Really sorry he never really made it on
> the England scene.

If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
erratically by the England management these days.

Richard



17 Apr 2006 11:36:22
David North
Re: Hick

"Richard Dixon" <rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4ah880Ft6fseU1@individual.net...
> "Tids" <carroll@REMOVETOREPLYwaihi.co.uk> wrote in news:4442bbea$0$9230
> $ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
>> His last season...........hope its a blinder.
>> Really sorry he never really made it on
>> the England scene.
>
> If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
> erratically by the England management these days.

If he were 15 years younger, he might well have played for Zimbabwe for a few
years before getting caught up in the mess there. He might currently have been
over here serving a four-year qualifying period.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




17 Apr 2006 20:37:11
maiet
Re: Hick


"Richard Dixon" <rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4ah880Ft6fseU1@individual.net...
> "Tids" <carroll@REMOVETOREPLYwaihi.co.uk> wrote in news:4442bbea$0$9230
> $ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
> > His last season...........hope its a blinder.
> > Really sorry he never really made it on
> > the England scene.
>
> If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
> erratically by the England management these days.
>
> Richard

add to that- Thorpe, Ramps, Smith, Malcolm an countless others. Bloody
Illingworth. I'm an aussie and it even shits me how the whole Illy reign
even got off the ground. I guess i'm a Nasser/athers fan and take their POV.




17 Apr 2006 10:49:50
Richard Dixon
Re: Hick

"maiet" <h@hotmail.com > wrote in
news:44436fe1$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:

> add to that- Thorpe, Ramps, Smith, Malcolm an countless others. Bloody
> Illingworth. I'm an aussie and it even shits me how the whole Illy
> reign even got off the ground. I guess i'm a Nasser/athers fan and
> take their POV.

I've read in a number of England players' autobiographies various stories
about Illingworth. I just remember him and "Malcolm Devon".

Richard


17 Apr 2006 20:56:20
maiet
Re: Hick


"Richard Dixon" <rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4aha6eFq41j3U1@individual.net...
> "maiet" <h@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:44436fe1$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
>
> > add to that- Thorpe, Ramps, Smith, Malcolm an countless others. Bloody
> > Illingworth. I'm an aussie and it even shits me how the whole Illy
> > reign even got off the ground. I guess i'm a Nasser/athers fan and
> > take their POV.
>
> I've read in a number of England players' autobiographies various stories
> about Illingworth. I just remember him and "Malcolm Devon".
>
> Richard

yeah i've read nasser and athers books, good reads both of them, particular
Nasser's. really enjoyed that one.




17 Apr 2006 12:39:29
David North
Re: Hick

"Richard Dixon" <rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4aha6eFq41j3U1@individual.net...
> "maiet" <h@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:44436fe1$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
>
>> add to that- Thorpe, Ramps, Smith, Malcolm an countless others. Bloody
>> Illingworth. I'm an aussie and it even shits me how the whole Illy
>> reign even got off the ground. I guess i'm a Nasser/athers fan and
>> take their POV.
>
> I've read in a number of England players' autobiographies various stories
> about Illingworth. I just remember him and "Malcolm Devon".

Wasn't that Ted Dexter?
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




17 Apr 2006 11:43:31
Richard Dixon
Re: Hick

"David North" <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > wrote in
news:4ahd3aFrdqjdU1@individual.net:

>> I've read in a number of England players' autobiographies various
>> stories about Illingworth. I just remember him and "Malcolm Devon".
>
> Wasn't that Ted Dexter?

Probably, knowing my memory...!

R


17 Apr 2006 08:11:45
Re: Hick

Richard Dixon wrote:
>
> If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
> erratically by the England management these days.


I thought he got much more of a lease than he deserved to. In the long
run, stats don't lie, and they say Hick got more than his fair chances
in Tests. He ranks with Carl Hooper and Mike Gatting among mediocre
batsmen who played a lot of Tests.

Hick was a good ODI player, had a safe pair of hands and conducted
himself very gracefully on the cricket field.

Ramapriya



17 Apr 2006 20:58:02
David North
Re: Hick

<ramapriya.d@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1145286704.999032.285740@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Richard Dixon wrote:
>>
>> If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
>> erratically by the England management these days.
>
>
> I thought he got much more of a lease than he deserved to. In the long
> run, stats don't lie, and they say Hick got more than his fair chances
> in Tests. He ranks with Carl Hooper and Mike Gatting among mediocre
> batsmen who played a lot of Tests.

Hick and Gatting were repeatedly dropped every time they had two or three poor
Tests in a row (and sometimes when they didn't) and recalled a few matches
later. Gatting was dropped after each of his first two Tests, and played his
first 30 Tests without getting more than 6 in a row. Try that with any player,
however good, and you can expect it to affect their confidence badly, and
therefore their performance likewise.

If the selectors think a player is good enough in the first place, they should
back their judgment and give them a decent run in the side (unless they have
replaced a first-choice player who is indisposed, in which case they should
usually make way when the first-choice player returns, but remain next in line
when another opportunity arises). That is, for the most part, what the England
selectors have done for the last few years and, lo and behold, the team has
produced decent results.
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk





17 Apr 2006 22:38:32
Tids
Re: Hick

David North wrote:
>
> If the selectors think a player is good enough in the first place,
> they should back their judgment and give them a decent run in the
> side

But don't overdo it like they have with Bell.




18 Apr 2006 17:31:52
Andrew Dunford
Re: Hick


"David North" <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4ahd3aFrdqjdU1@individual.net...
> "Richard Dixon" <rdngemail@^spam^yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4aha6eFq41j3U1@individual.net...
> > "maiet" <h@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > news:44436fe1$0$10678$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au:
> >
> >> add to that- Thorpe, Ramps, Smith, Malcolm an countless others. Bloody
> >> Illingworth. I'm an aussie and it even shits me how the whole Illy
> >> reign even got off the ground. I guess i'm a Nasser/athers fan and
> >> take their POV.
> >
> > I've read in a number of England players' autobiographies various
stories
> > about Illingworth. I just remember him and "Malcolm Devon".
>
> Wasn't that Ted Dexter?

Certainly was. IIRC this was 1989, when every UK citizen played a Test
match for England.

Andrew




18 Apr 2006 07:42:15
David North
Re: Hick

"Tids" <carroll@REMOVETOREPLYwaihi.co.uk > wrote in message
news:44440adc$0$9240$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> David North wrote:
>>
>> If the selectors think a player is good enough in the first place,
>> they should back their judgment and give them a decent run in the
>> side
>
> But don't overdo it like they have with Bell.

When would you have dropped him?
--
David North
Email to this address will be deleted as spam
Use usenetATlaneHYPHENfarm.fsnet.co.uk




18 Apr 2006 08:51:34
Richard Dixon
Re: Hick

"David North" <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > wrote in
news:4aiaa2Fsv2nsU1@individual.net:

> Hick and Gatting were repeatedly dropped every time they had two or
> three poor Tests in a row...Try that with any player, however good, and
> you can expect it to affect their confidence badly, and therefore their
> performance likewise.

> If the selectors think a player is good enough in the first place,
> they should back their judgment and give them a decent run in the side

Thankyou! Agreed on both points.

Thankfully we do give players a chance these days rather than the "play for
two, dropped for two" farces of the 1990s. I just hope that with the side
rather unsettled at the moment with players out, and players coming in and
giving good accounts of themselves (Shah, Cook, Anderson and to a certain
extent Panesar) that we don't find ourselves chopping and changing. We had
a settled side for the Ashes - I'd like to see a settled side before the
next Ashes starts, but I see that highly unlikely.

Richard


18 Apr 2006 22:40:10
United Road
Re: Hick


"Andrew Dunford" <adunford@artifax.net > wrote in message
news:44447d03@clear.net.nz...

>> Wasn't that Ted Dexter?
>
> Certainly was. IIRC this was 1989, when every UK citizen played a Test
> match for England.
>
> Andrew
>
1988 was better.
The year of 5? Captains.

United Road




18 Apr 2006 17:51:20
Tids
Re: Hick

United Road wrote:
> "Andrew Dunford" <adunford@artifax.net> wrote in message
> news:44447d03@clear.net.nz...
>
>>> Wasn't that Ted Dexter?
>>
>> Certainly was. IIRC this was 1989, when every UK citizen played a
>> Test match for England.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
> 1988 was better.
> The year of 5? Captains.

Is that the year Cowdrey.....who had hadn't played a test
for 4 years, came straight in as captain for one test and
never played again?







18 Apr 2006 18:07:01
David Lewis
Re: Hick


"Tids" <carroll@REMOVETOREPLYwaihi.co.uk > wrote in message
news:44451911$0$9230$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net...
> United Road wrote:
> > "Andrew Dunford" <adunford@artifax.net> wrote in message
> > news:44447d03@clear.net.nz...
> >
> >>> Wasn't that Ted Dexter?
> >>
> >> Certainly was. IIRC this was 1989, when every UK citizen played a
> >> Test match for England.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
Only those with a pulse.


> > 1988 was better.
> > The year of 5? Captains.
>
> Is that the year Cowdrey.....who had hadn't played a test
> for 4 years, came straight in as captain for one test and
> never played again?
>
>
It was. FWIW 4 captains were selected, but Pringle became the 5th when
Gooch was injured for part of the final test.
Going back to UR's point, we got through more players in 1989 (29, compared
to 28 the previous year), albeit in one more test. And yes, I know I really
should get over it by now.

Cheers

David




18 Apr 2006 18:21:26
David Lewis
Re: Hick


"David North" <dnorth@abbeymanor.fsbusiness.co.uk > wrote in message
news:4aiaa2Fsv2nsU1@individual.net...
> <ramapriya.d@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1145286704.999032.285740@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Richard Dixon wrote:
> >>
> >> If he were 15 years younger, I'm sure he'd have been treated less
> >> erratically by the England management these days.
> >
> >
> > I thought he got much more of a lease than he deserved to. In the long
> > run, stats don't lie, and they say Hick got more than his fair chances
> > in Tests. He ranks with Carl Hooper and Mike Gatting among mediocre
> > batsmen who played a lot of Tests.
>
> Hick and Gatting were repeatedly dropped every time they had two or three
poor
> Tests in a row (and sometimes when they didn't) and recalled a few matches
> later. Gatting was dropped after each of his first two Tests, and played
his
> first 30 Tests without getting more than 6 in a row. Try that with any
player,
> however good, and you can expect it to affect their confidence badly, and
> therefore their performance likewise.
>
> If the selectors think a player is good enough in the first place, they
should
> back their judgment and give them a decent run in the side (unless they
have
> replaced a first-choice player who is indisposed, in which case they
should
> usually make way when the first-choice player returns, but remain next in
line
> when another opportunity arises). That is, for the most part, what the
England
> selectors have done for the last few years and, lo and behold, the team
has
> produced decent results.
> --

Yup. I was chatting the other day about the best English players never to
have taken part in a successful Ashes series, which was initially about the
90's generation. Once we realised that Dexter & Barrington fitted that
particular criteria we stopped looking and didn't try to work out who was
better, but that's another matter. What was interesting was weighing up the
likes of Atherton, Stewart, Smith, Thorpe, Hussain, Butcher, Russell, Gough,
Fraser, Caddick, Tufnell, Cork & Headley against the 2005 vintage. I don't
think you could honestly say the current side are, on the whole, better
players. As you say, they have benefitted from consistent selection, plus
the support the bowlers have received from Cooley.

Cheers

David