12 Jun 2007 19:02:38
Andy Richardson
Colour Adjustment of photos

Help!!!!
I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
picture using Serif Photo Plus.
Now the question .....
What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
blue or something else.
I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
right direction.
Thanks in advance
Andy R.


12 Jun 2007 20:09:03
Zen Diver
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

Andy Richardson wrote:
> Help!!!!
> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
> true colours.

Don't be so quick to dismiss your housing as being unsuitable for
filters. UR-PRO may have the market pretty stitched up but there is an
alternative, and it will work with housings that do not have a filter
thread. Point your browser at http://www.magic-filters.comand you will
find one that is suitable for your camera, I would suggest the AutoMagic
as the F30 does not have manual white-balance.

> So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
> Now the question .....
> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
> blue or something else.
> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
> right direction.
> Thanks in advance
> Andy R.

There are several techniques that you can use to bring back the colour
in your photos in post processing. If you do a search on the "Mandrake
technique" you might turn up something useful. There are also some good
tutorials at http://www.digitaldiver.net,although it is primarily a
forum so join up to that and you can tap the wealth of knowledge that is
the DDN userbase.

jon
~~~


12 Jun 2007 21:28:19
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Andy Richardson" <arichardson1@tiscali.co.uk > wrote in message
news:466edfc1$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Help!!!!
> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes great
> underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give true
> colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the picture
> using Serif Photo Plus.
> Now the question .....
> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
> blue or something else.
> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some wizard
> out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the right
> direction.
> Thanks in advance

While filters can be placed in front of your lens (if your housing is not
threaded it can still be done, albeit more expensively) the effect has its
limitations. In order to restore the balance, the filter has to permit more
red through than greens and blues. The problem is, you don't need to go very
deep at all before there are no reds AT ALL and no amount of filtering will
permit the non-existant red to be expressed in your pictures.

The long and short of it is, that unless you are happy to have all your pics
come out greeny-blue (more green in the Atlantic and Med, more blue inthe
tropics) OR decide in favour of B&W (don't dismiss it outright - it can be
absolutely fabulous) you'll most likely end up with a flashgun, and unless
you want most of your pics to look like you were in a snowstorm, your flash
will need to be external to your camera housing.

Commercial solutions are available and they work, but at a price. For the
sake of a bit of shopping around you can make your own external flash using
readily-available bits and pieces, all you have to do is buy them and put
them together having decided what power flash you're going for.

Have a look at http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/homebrewflashto see how
I made mine for around 50 - 70. It's on its way to its third trip (or is it
fourth?) to the Red Sea in three weeks' time. All the pics on the site can
be enlarged for better appreciation.

Ken




13 Jun 2007 00:49:05
Alastair
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

On 12 Jun, 20:09, Zen Diver <spicedha...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Andy Richardson wrote:
> > Help!!!!
> > I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
> > great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
> > true colours.
>
> Don't be so quick to dismiss your housing as being unsuitable for
> filters. UR-PRO may have the market pretty stitched up but there is an
> alternative, and it will work with housings that do not have a filter
> thread. Point your browser athttp://www.magic-filters.comandyou will
> find one that is suitable for your camera, I would suggest the AutoMagic
> as the F30 does not have manual white-balance.
>

Err, I think it does have manual white balance. It's under the white
balance menu. You point the camera at a white object, and press the
shutter. When the display says 'Set' you're done. Remember to reset as
you change depth.
The F30 also has an underwater mode, which I am led to believe, adjust
the white balance automatically at whichever depth you are at.
I know this 'cos I just bought one, with the waterproof case. Going to
Greece on Sat where I plan to take lots of u/w pics.

White balance is only really any good down to about 10m. Below that
you'll need an external light source...




13 Jun 2007 00:53:24
Alastair
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:
> Help!!!!
> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
> Now the question .....
> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
> blue or something else.
> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
> right direction.

I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
depth was around 7m
Before:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/

After:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/



13 Jun 2007 01:09:12
Alastair
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

On 12 Jun, 21:28, "Ken" <k...@k1at.freeserve.co.uk > wrote:
> Have a look athttp://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/homebrewflashtosee how
> I made mine for around =A350 - 70. It's on its way to its third trip (or =
is it
> fourth?) to the Red Sea in three weeks' time. All the pics on the site can
> be enlarged for better appreciation.
>

Very impressive!
I've been thinking about external light sources, but put off a bit by
the price.
As I read through it I was thinking, why didnt' he put the two pashes
in separate boxes, and then you mentioned it at the end. Impressed by
your battery pack idea too - would never have occurred to me to do
something like that.
There's not time before I go on holiday on Sat, but I'm going away
again in Sept. Perhaps I'll give this a try in time for then.



13 Jun 2007 09:16:32
Ian Blakeley
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:28:19 +0100 in uk.rec.scuba, Ken says:

>Have a look at http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/homebrewflashto see how
>I made mine for around 50 - 70. It's on its way to its third trip (or is it
>fourth?) to the Red Sea in three weeks' time.

I made one and it worked well until I flooded it so I am on the
lookout for another vivitar flash but they're quite rare now. however,
occasionally ebay has one.

--
Ian


13 Jun 2007 11:19:50
Zen Diver
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

Alastair wrote:
> On 12 Jun, 20:09, Zen Diver <spicedha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Andy Richardson wrote:
>>> Help!!!!
>>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>>> true colours.
>> Don't be so quick to dismiss your housing as being unsuitable for
>> filters. UR-PRO may have the market pretty stitched up but there is an
>> alternative, and it will work with housings that do not have a filter
>> thread. Point your browser athttp://www.magic-filters.comandyou will
>> find one that is suitable for your camera, I would suggest the AutoMagic
>> as the F30 does not have manual white-balance.
>>
>
> Err, I think it does have manual white balance. It's under the white
> balance menu. You point the camera at a white object, and press the
> shutter. When the display says 'Set' you're done. Remember to reset as
> you change depth.
> The F30 also has an underwater mode, which I am led to believe, adjust
> the white balance automatically at whichever depth you are at.
> I know this 'cos I just bought one, with the waterproof case. Going to
> Greece on Sat where I plan to take lots of u/w pics.
>
> White balance is only really any good down to about 10m. Below that
> you'll need an external light source...
>
>

Sorry, my bad. I was just going on what Fuji had on their site under
the camera specs. They make no mention of custom white balance, only
the preset modes and auto. I had to download the manual to find
anything about CWB.

I would still recomend getting the filter as it does make a real
difference and is still cheaper than any form of strobe. I would say
that 10m is a little lean, more like 15m, but it depends on conditions.

Another tip is to set the exposure compensation to -1.0eV as the
metering in digital cameras tends to overexpose when subjected to
underwater light conditions. Your photos will look less washed out and
it is also easier to recover a photo that is slightly under than over.

Enjoy your trip.


13 Jun 2007 03:25:16
Alastair
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

On 13 Jun, 11:19, Zen Diver <spicedha...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> I would still recomend getting the filter as it does make a real
> difference and is still cheaper than any form of strobe. I would say
> that 10m is a little lean, more like 15m, but it depends on conditions.
>

I am planning to pop into the Cameras Underwater shop on Embankment on
Friday, so I'll look out for filters.

> Another tip is to set the exposure compensation to -1.0eV as the
> metering in digital cameras tends to overexpose when subjected to
> underwater light conditions. Your photos will look less washed out and
> it is also easier to recover a photo that is slightly under than over.

THanks for the tip, I'll give it a go. Hoping to have the chance to
take loads of pics and do some experimentation, to it'll be
interesting to see how it works out.



13 Jun 2007 18:40:59
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Ian Blakeley" <boots@despammed.com > wrote in message
news:f4oclh.2cs.1@blakeley.plus.com...
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:28:19 +0100 in uk.rec.scuba, Ken says:
>
>>Have a look at http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/homebrewflashto see
>>how
>>I made mine for around 50 - 70. It's on its way to its third trip (or is
>>it
>>fourth?) to the Red Sea in three weeks' time.
>
> I made one and it worked well until I flooded it so I am on the
> lookout for another vivitar flash but they're quite rare now. however,
> occasionally ebay has one.

AFAIK the Vivitar flash was discontinued JUST AS Fuji brought out its own
unit which apart from being black, was identical to the Vivitar offering.
This was on sale for 150, being a single flash head. This too seems to have
disappeared from shops.

Of course the principal remains unaltered, and any suitably small flashgun
can be pressed into such service.

I now use a better flash bracket than is covered in my webpage. The plastic
flashbar is still used to mount the camera case on, but a flexible arm is
used, available from Cromwells
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/IND4477230K?popup=yesfor a far more flexible
(pardon the pun). more robust and not as Heath-Robinson looking an affair.

Ken





13 Jun 2007 18:48:14
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181721204.910461.187210@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> Help!!!!
>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
>> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
>> Now the question .....
>> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
>> blue or something else.
>> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
>> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
>> right direction.
>
> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
> depth was around 7m
> Before:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>
> After:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/

Many of the better photoediting progs have similar functions, PaintShopPro
has a "One Step Photo Fix" which works apparent miracles. BUT the limitation
is that if you take a pic below a certain depth where there is no red, none
can be recorded and none can be enhanced. What tends to happen then is that
the program - which of course has no idea what it is you've taken a pic of
or what it should look like - merely tries to average out your pic and adds
red wher it sees absence of any colour - making your blacks red instead.

How deep you have to go before this happens depends on several factors, like
water clarity and angle of incidence of sunlight on the water surface. Hence
you can get away with no flash at greater depths in the Red Sea than you can
in the North Sea. But even in the tropics there are limits, and they occur
well within recreational scuba depths.

Ken




13 Jun 2007 23:49:21
Rick Hughes
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181720945.739291.309680@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On 12 Jun, 20:09, Zen Diver <spicedha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Andy Richardson wrote:
>> > Help!!!!
>> > I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>> > great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>> > true colours.
>>
>> Don't be so quick to dismiss your housing as being unsuitable for
>> filters. UR-PRO may have the market pretty stitched up but there is an
>> alternative, and it will work with housings that do not have a filter
>> thread. Point your browser athttp://www.magic-filters.comandyou will
>> find one that is suitable for your camera, I would suggest the AutoMagic
>> as the F30 does not have manual white-balance.


F30 does have manual white balance - but you can't use it in conjunction
with Underwater mode.
Advice is to forget UW mode ... and use the WB.
Initially I was using the back of my hand, but at depth it changes colour
... so now use a dive slate to balance off.



13 Jun 2007 23:53:29
Rick Hughes
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com > wrote in message
> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
> depth was around 7m
> Before:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>
> After:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/
>

I have Photoshop CS3 ... (only just got it) ... what steps did you use in
Photshop Elements to carry out the fix, I'd like to see if same steps are in
Photoshop



15 Jun 2007 02:14:30
Joe Hotchkiss
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

Ken wrote:
> Many of the better photoediting progs have similar functions, PaintShopPro
> has a "One Step Photo Fix" which works apparent miracles.

Not for me. I have PSP XI and have tried this on several pictures. None
of them came even close to a hand-tweaked result.

> BUT the limitation
> is that if you take a pic below a certain depth where there is no red, none
> can be recorded and none can be enhanced.

Yep. Got plenty of those.

> What tends to happen then is that
> the program - which of course has no idea what it is you've taken a pic of
> or what it should look like - merely tries to average out your pic and adds
> red wher it sees absence of any colour - making your blacks red instead.

I'll take your word for that.

> How deep you have to go before this happens depends on several factors, like
> water clarity and angle of incidence of sunlight on the water surface. Hence
> you can get away with no flash at greater depths in the Red Sea than you can
> in the North Sea. But even in the tropics there are limits, and they occur
> well within recreational scuba depths.

I have pictures taken in the Red Sea showing noticable discolouration at
just 2 or 3 metres. I'll try and get some examples on my web site soon.
In the mean time, I've put up just the one example of how I
colour-correct my pictures, at
http://joe.hotchkiss.com/photos/fixes/photofix.html
I haven't found any definitions of what the 'Mandrake Technique' is, so
this may well be the same thing or something similar. I wouldn't know.
Basically, I stretch the histogram of the red, green, and blue
components separately. That's about it. Follow the link for an example
of how well it works and judge for yourself.

(There's not much else on the web site for now. The previous
incarnation of the site got removed and I haven't replaced it yet. I
want to put new content in rather than just putting the old stuff back.)

--
Joe

http://joe.hotchkiss.com
http://harrowsubaqua.org.uk


15 Jun 2007 11:20:37
Zen Diver
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

Joe Hotchkiss wrote:

> I haven't found any definitions of what the 'Mandrake Technique' is, so
> this may well be the same thing or something similar. I wouldn't know.

Here are some links to colour correction techniques

http://www.scubaboard.com/cms/article18-doc5.html

Mandrake is described there but a clearer description is on this page

http://kayakdiver.com/divephotos/adjustments.htm

And if you have photoshop there are some actions here, the
underwater.atn one is a version of Mandrake with autolevels and
flattening in one.

http://www.justinunderwater.com/photoshopactions.htm


jon
~~~


16 Jun 2007 18:05:12
Rick Hughes
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Andy Richardson" <arichardson1@tiscali.co.uk > wrote in message
news:466edfc1$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...


Andy ... here is a post I made on the Cymru Divers forum ... works for me:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cymru_divers/message/195


As some of you know, I like taking pictures while diving - I'm not
particularly good at it - but I enjoy doing so.
One of the annoying factors is when you see something great UW, then you
look at the picture later .. it has a serious blue cast, and detail,
contrast & colour seem to be missing - nothing like you
remember it.

( Blue Peter bit - The blue cast is caused by the water removing the red
colour with increasing depth )

You can fix this by turning the water at depth into daylight . hence the
divers with huge scaffolding affairs attaching multiple flash
heads to increasingly larger UW housings.
Or you can (within limits) use manual white balance, forcing the camera to
do what your eyes & brain are doing automatically - correcting for colour,
or alternatively add filters.

Had a useful mail this morning from an expert in post-edit treatment of UW
pictures - Saeed Rashid, he was the guy doing the `master classes' at LIDS.
He has modified an Adobe Photoshop script, which by pressing a single mouse
click . fixes the colour cast.

Obviously the best time to get it right is at the time of taking, I'm sure
though that for many you have lots of pictures with a Blue cast (or Cyan to
be picky) .. This does provide superb results in seconds.

I have take 2 pictures at random .. and applied only his `script' . I think
the improvement is great, and saves hours of messing about with adjustment
layers, channel mixers, etc.
I have loaded the before & after shots to this website in the pictures
section - I don't hold these up as expert pictures, just an example of what
this script does.

All I have done is run the script (takes seconds) and saved them at smaller
file size to suit the web site limits. They could probably be further
improved by sharpening, cropping etc.

This script is free - and you can download it form his website -
http://www.focusindepth.com/Focusindepth/focusindepth_home.html

If you do go there take a look at the tutorials - especially the one on the
turtle - he knows his stuff on Photoshop, and enjoys passing on his
knowledge.



16 Jun 2007 20:19:19
Andy Richardson
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

A big thank you to all who replied to my query. Especially the people
who sent me "before" and "after" photos.
Regards
Andy R.


19 Jun 2007 23:50:18
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Andy Richardson" <arichardson1@tiscali.co.uk > wrote in message
news:466edfc1$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Help!!!!
> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes great
> underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give true
> colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the picture
> using Serif Photo Plus.
> Now the question .....
> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
> blue or something else.
> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some wizard
> out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the right
> direction.
> Thanks in advance


After so much of what has been said, I've revisited Photoshop (which I
hadn't used for a while) and used the underwater.atn facility that I had
forgotten about. I pulled out some of my old pics, as taken BEFORE any
processing was carried out. I then put these images through Photoshop, and
saved them under a new name. I again went back to the original pic and used
the "enhance photo - one stop photo fix" function in Paint Shop Pro.

Overall, PS did a better job than PSP. HOWEVER, there were a FEW pics where
the results from PSP were more leasing that the results obtained from PS. In
many cases both progs performed vst improvements on the pics, in some cases
it may be just a metter of tase whether you prefer the auto adjustments
resulting from PSP or PS. However there were a few shots where the PS result
was doubtlesly better than PSP's and vice versa.

From now on - and as from the next trip in a fortnight's time, and more time
consuming as it might be, every pic gets the double treatment -
autoprocessing through PSP and PS. Oh that there a macro somewhere (is there
perhaps and I don;t know about it?) where by a load of pics could be loaded
into these programmes, and the auto functions set about their job, and then
save the results? I could concentrate later on minor tweaking and cropping!

Ken




20 Jun 2007 01:08:25
Ian Stevenson
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos

> From now on - and as from the next trip in a fortnight's time, and more time
> consuming as it might be, every pic gets the double treatment -
> autoprocessing through PSP and PS. Oh that there a macro somewhere (is there
> perhaps and I don;t know about it?) where by a load of pics could be loaded
> into these programmes, and the auto functions set about their job, and then
> save the results? I could concentrate later on minor tweaking and cropping!

Hi Ken.

If you are using JPEG images, then there is some loss of quality each
time you open and save the file. So opening and saving in PS, then
PSP, then possible one or both again to do your manual tweaks will
lose an awful lot of quality. Even "lossless" JPEG has some domain
transformation errors in most implementations. It may not be visible
to you, but you can never get that quality back once its gone. Of
course if you're using TIFF then this applies less.

The auto transformations in both PS and PSP are pretty blunt
instruments too. If you want quick gratification then they're OK, but
remember (again) that the changes they make are irreversible and most
will lose information from the original image. You're far better
manually applying the transformations that you need.

One approach might be to keep original copies of all the images and to
do you "quick pass" on copies to see what they will look like. Then
you can go back and process the good images manually.

The automated processes are NOT magic and the same results can be
obtained with much finer control in a few minutes.

Just a thought...

Ian

(Formerly camera and image processing software designer)



20 Jun 2007 13:27:10
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Ian Stevenson" <Ian.Stevenson@cyclops-online.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1182326905.200583.185580@c77g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> From now on - and as from the next trip in a fortnight's time, and more
>> time
>> consuming as it might be, every pic gets the double treatment -
>> autoprocessing through PSP and PS. Oh that there a macro somewhere (is
>> there
>> perhaps and I don;t know about it?) where by a load of pics could be
>> loaded
>> into these programmes, and the auto functions set about their job, and
>> then
>> save the results? I could concentrate later on minor tweaking and
>> cropping!
>
> Hi Ken.
>
> If you are using JPEG images, then there is some loss of quality each
> time you open and save the file. So opening and saving in PS, then
> PSP, then possible one or both again to do your manual tweaks will
> lose an awful lot of quality. Even "lossless" JPEG has some domain
> transformation errors in most implementations. It may not be visible
> to you, but you can never get that quality back once its gone. Of
> course if you're using TIFF then this applies less.
>
> The auto transformations in both PS and PSP are pretty blunt
> instruments too. If you want quick gratification then they're OK, but
> remember (again) that the changes they make are irreversible and most
> will lose information from the original image. You're far better
> manually applying the transformations that you need.
>
> One approach might be to keep original copies of all the images and to
> do you "quick pass" on copies to see what they will look like. Then
> you can go back and process the good images manually.
>
> The automated processes are NOT magic and the same results can be
> obtained with much finer control in a few minutes.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> Ian
>
> (Formerly camera and image processing software designer)

I have no doubt you are correct, especially given the footnote! However, I
live for things other than my photographs too! I take on board your comment,
but after coming back with (for example) 400 pics, were I to spend a few
mins (5?) on EACH pic with EACH software package, that would come to around
60hrs solid work! OK, I will have alreeady discarded some pics while away -
blurred, gross exposure errors, gross composition errors - and I accept that
I could probably pick out a couple of dozen worthy of further treatment and
not bother with most. But I found it absolutely amazing what some of the
differences were.

I don't have a readily posted-to website I could easily hang some of these
pics on. Two pics of those I processed immediately spring to mind. One of a
Napoleon Wrasse and another of a shoal of Barracuda, both taken without
flash (not enough time to cycle!) within mins of each other as it happens at
Shark-Yolanda June last year. Both were lacking in detail, mostly blue pics.
PSP made a mess of each of them, I was able to do SOME resurrecting with
manual controls to one, but culdn't do anything with the other - but PS
transformed these almost miraculously with "underwater.atn".

And this is part of the problem. In order to get the best out of the
software I would need to spend some - a lot - of time learning all the
subtleties and tweaks. No doubt others can do better manually than I can
with the automations, no doubt I could do better too - after a load of
practice. BUT I have other calls on my time, and the robotic actions do so
very very well . . . .

Ken




20 Jun 2007 23:06:49
Adam Helberg
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Andy Richardson" <arichardson1@tiscali.co.uk > wrote in message
news:466edfc1$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Help!!!!
> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes great
> underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give true colours. So
> the option is to adjust the images after saving the picture using Serif Photo Plus.
> Now the question .....
> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down blue or
> something else.
> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some wizard out
> their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the right direction.
> Thanks in advance
> Andy R.

The Fuji F30 has an underwater mode which is supposed to correct some of the color
problems.

Adam




20 Jun 2007 23:11:31
Adam Helberg
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1181721204.910461.187210@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> Help!!!!
>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
>> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
>> Now the question .....
>> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
>> blue or something else.
>> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
>> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
>> right direction.
>
> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
> depth was around 7m
> Before:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>
> After:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/

The problem is the auto-corrected photos no longer have any underwater appearance,
they now look artificial. Perhaps a half-way correction would be better.

Adam




21 Jun 2007 14:16:30
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com > wrote in message
news:467a168e$0$4686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1181721204.910461.187210@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>> On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Help!!!!
>>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>>> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
>>> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
>>> Now the question .....
>>> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
>>> blue or something else.
>>> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
>>> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
>>> right direction.
>>
>> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
>> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
>> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
>> depth was around 7m
>> Before:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>>
>> After:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/
>
> The problem is the auto-corrected photos no longer have any underwater
> appearance, they now look artificial. Perhaps a half-way correction would
> be better.

Diver not in contact with the bottom, bubbles, fish in mid-air, coral
foramtions?

:))

Ken




21 Jun 2007 22:33:07
Adam Helberg
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Ken" <ken@k1at.freeserve.co.uk > wrote in message
news:f5e092014oe@news5.newsguy.com...
>
> "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> wrote in message
> news:467a168e$0$4686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> "Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1181721204.910461.187210@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>> On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Help!!!!
>>>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>>>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>>>> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
>>>> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
>>>> Now the question .....
>>>> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
>>>> blue or something else.
>>>> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
>>>> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
>>>> right direction.
>>>
>>> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
>>> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
>>> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
>>> depth was around 7m
>>> Before:
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>>>
>>> After:
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/
>>
>> The problem is the auto-corrected photos no longer have any underwater appearance,
>> they now look artificial. Perhaps a half-way correction would be better.
>
> Diver not in contact with the bottom, bubbles, fish in mid-air, coral foramtions?
>
> :))
>
> Ken

It all leads to a bizarre looking scene, with the colors of a desert land scene but
with underwater objects. I had the same problem when I had my printer driver to
correct the colors--the end result looked artificial.

Adam




22 Jun 2007 20:58:17
Ken
Re: Colour Adjustment of photos


"Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com > wrote in message
news:467b5f0d$0$24771$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> "Ken" <ken@k1at.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:f5e092014oe@news5.newsguy.com...
>>
>> "Adam Helberg" <sendspamhere@yahee.com> wrote in message
>> news:467a168e$0$4686$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> "Alastair" <AlastairScarlett@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1181721204.910461.187210@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On 12 Jun, 19:02, Andy Richardson <arichards...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Help!!!!
>>>>> I am a novice with digital photography. Have a Fuji F30 which takes
>>>>> great underwater photos but cannot be fitted with a red filter to give
>>>>> true colours. So the option is to adjust the images after saving the
>>>>> picture using Serif Photo Plus.
>>>>> Now the question .....
>>>>> What do I adjust - Hue, Colour, etc and do I bring up red or take down
>>>>> blue or something else.
>>>>> I could spend a long time experimenting but I am sure there is some
>>>>> wizard out their in virtual underwater world who can point me in the
>>>>> right direction.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know Serif Photo Plus, but I have Photoshop Elements. In
>>>> there, it's simplay a case of Auto Colour Correct. Amazing!!
>>>> Have a look at these cuttlefish pics to see the difference. Think the
>>>> depth was around 7m
>>>> Before:
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572073/
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/306572069/
>>>>
>>>> After:
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122485/
>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/50329493@N00/471122483/
>>>
>>> The problem is the auto-corrected photos no longer have any underwater
>>> appearance, they now look artificial. Perhaps a half-way correction
>>> would be better.
>>
>> Diver not in contact with the bottom, bubbles, fish in mid-air, coral
>> foramtions?
>>
>> :))
>>
>> Ken
>
> It all leads to a bizarre looking scene, with the colors of a desert land
> scene but with underwater objects. I had the same problem when I had my
> printer driver to correct the colors--the end result looked artificial.

In many regards, the best (from an artistic viewpoint perhaps?) is to use
B&W. In doing so, you completely bypass the issue of colour. You can capture
many nuances of shade and lighting which are not apparent with the
distraction of colour. What, after all, is the real colour? Is it the colour
we perceive when we look with our own eyes, accepting there is an "auto
white balance" in our heads? Of course this is NOT an infallible device, and
we perceive more reds than are there but of course we cannot register ANY
red if there is NONE there. Should we then record the scene as it is, with
ambient light only and then not apply any correction? Should we introduce
artificial light, so that scenes appear AS IF they had been illuminted by
the full spectrum of sunlight on a cloudless day? Should we not crop our
pics, or de-speckle them?

Whatever we do is artificial. We often assume our pics taken on land show
true colour, but look up some photographs and compare the colours shown next
to the actual clothes worn - and you see that the reproduction is NOT
perfect.

Ultimately, what I'm after (can't speak for anyone else) is a pic that I
like. Sometimes I like an unaltered pic, greeny-blue though it may be.
Sometimes I prefer it to look as if it WAS taken outdoors ona sunny day. I
have for example a (to me) very pleasant pic of soft corals which seem to
have been painted by someone on LSD. If I did NOT colour correct, how could
I illustrate the riot of colour we sometimes see (or at least think we see)
down there?

Ken