23 Apr 2005 21:58:27
frank
50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

Hi,

I need to buy a light for diving in mainly low vis conditions and are
hesitating between different options.

- Greenforce Flexi2 with 35 W Halogen and umbilical (400 Euro)

- Hartenberger Wreck Maxi 50W Halogen (close to 500 Euro)

- MAL or Halcyon HID 10 W (500-600 EURO)

The Hartenberger has only 60 min. burn time at full power, but can be
dimmed to 75% for extended burn times. The Greenforce would be OK, but
more power should be better in my dive environment.

On the other hand the HID's offer longer burn times and it would be easy
to buy a second battery pack (cheap Lead Acid) if I really needed to
make two long dives.

I am conserned about the robustness of the HID bulb as the lights get
banged a lot when crawling over rocks into the water. Also it stretches
the budget a bit to much.

I would welcome some feedback and recommendations of users of above
mentioned lights or similar alternatives.

Thanks in advance,


Frank


23 Apr 2005 20:10:03
Nigel Hewitt
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

frank wrote:

> I am conserned about the robustness of the HID bulb as the lights get
> banged a lot when crawling over rocks into the water. Also it
> stretches the budget a bit to much.

I bought the Halcyon focusable 10W.
I am on my third 60 quid bulb in less than a year.
I don't think I'm brutal and one died because I
turned the focus knob the wrong way.

nigelH




23 Apr 2005 20:12:33
Keith S.
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

frank wrote:

> I would welcome some feedback and recommendations of users of above
> mentioned lights or similar alternatives.

I have a Hartenberger and it is a well-made torch but it
can't compete with HIDs as far as brightness in low viz
conditions are concerned. IIWY go for the HID.

- Keith


23 Apr 2005 22:22:00
Zak
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

"fit for purpose"

/Z




23 Apr 2005 22:49:45
Pete S.
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:22:00 GMT, "Zak" <me@privacy.net > wrote:

>"fit for purpose"
>
As in "not", surely.


Pete S.

www.derwentelec.clara.co.uk


24 Apr 2005 00:22:25
Keith Lawrence
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

"frank" <fsu@sonnemans.net > wrote...

> I need to buy a light for diving in mainly low vis conditions and are
> hesitating between different options.
>
> - Greenforce Flexi2 with 35 W Halogen and umbilical (400 Euro)
>
> - Hartenberger Wreck Maxi 50W Halogen (close to 500 Euro)
>
> - MAL or Halcyon HID 10 W (500-600 EURO)

Like Keith S I've also got a Hartenberger, it's nice and compact, well made,
but I've never managed the one hour duration claimed. For the money (mine
was about 500!) I wouldn't buy another.

I must admit I'm dubious about the HID's, too many horror stories (like
Nigel's) and the cost of new bulbs is beyond a joke. You can add an extra
100 E to the HID cost just to have that spare bulb you will need.

Have you considered the Kowalski's? They do a modular umbilical
http://www.lighthousediving.co.uk/ulamps.htmthat looks quite nice, loads of
different light heads for them as well. Good after sales service as well.

Although if you're heading for the higher price ranges have you considered
TWO Greenforces?

HTH

Keith L




24 Apr 2005 11:23:01
david
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

> I bought the Halcyon focusable 10W.
> I am on my third 60 quid bulb in less than a year.
> I don't think I'm brutal and one died because I
> turned the focus knob the wrong way.
>
> nigelH
>
I got two dead bulbs sitting here and I think the owner has bought least 4
at one stage he was getting through them at 1 a weekend. Would I buy a 10w
Halcyon
no unless they guarantee the bulb for more than one dive.
the DIR boys must have real trouble explaining why they cant safely chose a
10w Halcyon
for cave diving.

David




24 Apr 2005 12:41:49
Keith S.
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

david wrote:

> I got two dead bulbs sitting here and I think the owner has bought least 4
> at one stage he was getting through them at 1 a weekend. Would I buy a 10w
> Halcyon
> no unless they guarantee the bulb for more than one dive.
> the DIR boys must have real trouble explaining why they cant safely chose a
> 10w Halcyon
> for cave diving.

The HID bulbs aren't exactly environmentally friendly either
as they contain mercury. Please don't throw them in the bin,
see http://www.mercuryrecycling.co.uk

- Keith


24 Apr 2005 18:08:32
frank
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

david wrote:
>>I bought the Halcyon focusable 10W.
>>I am on my third 60 quid bulb in less than a year.
>>I don't think I'm brutal and one died because I
>>turned the focus knob the wrong way.
>>
>>nigelH
>>
>
> I got two dead bulbs sitting here and I think the owner has bought least 4
> at one stage he was getting through them at 1 a weekend. Would I buy a 10w
> Halcyon
> no unless they guarantee the bulb for more than one dive.
> the DIR boys must have real trouble explaining why they cant safely chose a
> 10w Halcyon
> for cave diving.
>
> David
>
>
Thats what I was afraid of. Probably better start with Halogen
greenforce and upgrade to LED or HID once the technology matures.

Regards,

Frank


25 Apr 2005 01:09:43
net begonnen met duiken
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

frank <fsu@sonnemans.net > wrote in message news:<426aa8e4$0$7745$ba620e4c@news.skynet.be>...
> Hi,
>
> I need to buy a light for diving in mainly low vis conditions and are
> hesitating between different options.
>
> - Greenforce Flexi2 with 35 W Halogen and umbilical (400 Euro)
>
> - Hartenberger Wreck Maxi 50W Halogen (close to 500 Euro)
>
> - MAL or Halcyon HID 10 W (500-600 EURO)
>
> The Hartenberger has only 60 min. burn time at full power, but can be
> dimmed to 75% for extended burn times. The Greenforce would be OK, but
> more power should be better in my dive environment.
>
> On the other hand the HID's offer longer burn times and it would be easy
> to buy a second battery pack (cheap Lead Acid) if I really needed to
> make two long dives.

considder the Gilan Traveller Plus HID. It offers almost two torches
in one. Furthermore, Gilan uses the 10W HID but modifies this bulb to
make it almost unbreakable. Check www.gilan.nl
>
> I am conserned about the robustness of the HID bulb as the lights get
> banged a lot when crawling over rocks into the water. Also it stretches
> the budget a bit to much.
>
> I would welcome some feedback and recommendations of users of above
> mentioned lights or similar alternatives.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
>
> Frank


27 Apr 2005 15:54:00
Lee
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

Have you considered the metal sub torch - 50w halogen bulb

I have had mine 3 years + only changed my first bulb last week cost 2.95

I know about 6 divers in our group who own them nobody has ever had a
problem.

Regards

Lee Hooper

TDI Trimix Instructor
www.oceandiving.co.uk


"Keith Lawrence" <false@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:426ad8b3$0$38039$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
> "frank" <fsu@sonnemans.net> wrote...
>
>> I need to buy a light for diving in mainly low vis conditions and are
>> hesitating between different options.
>>
>> - Greenforce Flexi2 with 35 W Halogen and umbilical (400 Euro)
>>
>> - Hartenberger Wreck Maxi 50W Halogen (close to 500 Euro)
>>
>> - MAL or Halcyon HID 10 W (500-600 EURO)
>
> Like Keith S I've also got a Hartenberger, it's nice and compact, well
> made,
> but I've never managed the one hour duration claimed. For the money (mine
> was about 500!) I wouldn't buy another.
>
> I must admit I'm dubious about the HID's, too many horror stories (like
> Nigel's) and the cost of new bulbs is beyond a joke. You can add an extra
> 100 E to the HID cost just to have that spare bulb you will need.
>
> Have you considered the Kowalski's? They do a modular umbilical
> http://www.lighthousediving.co.uk/ulamps.htmthat looks quite nice, loads
> of
> different light heads for them as well. Good after sales service as well.
>
> Although if you're heading for the higher price ranges have you considered
> TWO Greenforces?
>
> HTH
>
> Keith L
>
>




03 May 2005 10:37:07
Manic Grin
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

>Hi,
>
>I need to buy a light for diving in mainly low vis conditions and are
>hesitating between different options.
>
>- Greenforce Flexi2 with 35 W Halogen and umbilical (400 Euro)
>
>- Hartenberger Wreck Maxi 50W Halogen (close to 500 Euro)
>
>- MAL or Halcyon HID 10 W (500-600 EURO)
>
>The Hartenberger has only 60 min. burn time at full power, but can be
>dimmed to 75% for extended burn times. The Greenforce would be OK, but
>more power should be better in my dive environment.
>
>On the other hand the HID's offer longer burn times and it would be easy
>to buy a second battery pack (cheap Lead Acid) if I really needed to
>make two long dives.
>
>I am conserned about the robustness of the HID bulb as the lights get
>banged a lot when crawling over rocks into the water. Also it stretches
>the budget a bit to much.
>
>I would welcome some feedback and recommendations of users of above
>mentioned lights or similar alternatives.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>
>Frank
I've got a Salvo 21W HID light and it's rather bright. Have done a
fair bit of diving with it now and have even dropped it twice and it
is fine. And it was by far the brightest light in the water a couple
of weeks ago which makes it great for those all important light-sabre
fights at 25m. They also do a 10W version if your pocket does not
stretch to a 21W one. And they are focusable and not like tha Halcyon
one where it is easy to overtighten it and hear a sad little "tink" as
it cracks. Crap design, Halcyon- tut tut.
www.salvodiving.com

UK distributor:
www.divingniknaks.com

Tell 'em Woz sent you.


18 May 2005 13:10:08
hyweldavies
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

I bought the Greenforce 35W Halogen one the OP mentioned and after a
week's use in Scapa I'm well pleased. Couple of points is that I had to
make a belt loop for it - 2x (SS) Jubillee clips + bit of belt, and I
had to sort out wrist-straps / handle for the light unit - so it's not
fully useable out of the box.

The real bonus was after I bust the original bulb (through fiddling
about), I found that domestic 12V halogen spot-bulbs with integral
reflectors are =A32 each! I took the opportunity to upgrade to 50W at
the same time. I think it's the "pro-head" model which takes the
standard bulbs. You need the ones without glass at the front of the
reflector.

Good kit (so far) at a reasonable price - just shy of =A3300 (UKP) all
in with charger.

Hywel



21 May 2005 07:50:34
imortal
Re: 50W Halogen or HID (greenforce, Halcyon, MAL, Hartenberger)

I've had good halogens, good LEDs and good HIDs. The HIDs blow away
all the competition.

My advice: get a greenforce 18W HID on an umbillical and expect to pay
over =A3500 for the full set-up. I don't know anyone who managed to
bust the greenforce bulb yet (but I'm sure someone did). The cost is
well worth it because the dive is so much better. You can spend alot
more to get just a little bit better light.

If you want to keep it cheap (<=A3200), then a small hand-held LED (3
blub fami) is a good compromise. Oogles of burn-time, light and easy
to carry.

Saying that, if you don't need an umbillical HID the UK HID is cheap
and pretty stunning u/w.

Cheers
Matt,