19 Jan 2006 21:02:24
TonyB
MacGregor 26

What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
looked impressive for the price......

TonyB




19 Jan 2006 21:59:10
Doug Nowell
Re: MacGregor 26

"TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote in message
news:dqoup0$j9v$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> looked impressive for the price......
>
> TonyB
>
>

Oh no ...... here we go again!!!




20 Jan 2006 13:12:27
Duncan McC (NZ)
Re: MacGregor 26

In article <43d00bae$0$1485$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net >,
Doug@REMOVE.THIS.BIT.nowell.plus.com says...
> "TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dqoup0$j9v$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> > looked impressive for the price......
> >
> > TonyB
> >
> >
>
> Oh no ...... here we go again!!!

LOL.

The boat that neither sails nor powers :) (A purists comment one hears
all the time.)

I test drove one last year - a dealer setup here in Christchurch New
Zeealand. Hell of a nice guy too. For 75K or so, one can't doubt it's
value for money - chit, you couldn't buy a new 26' bare hull for that in
NZ!

My opinion:
The overall construction, in particular rigging, seems damn light. It
worried me a bit. However that said, "they" reckon none have broken.

The sail area is pretty small. That said, it seemed quite tender
initially - and perhaps might be ok at 5kts of wind (though others have
disagreed with me on that one). (I put it down to its water ballast
system which doesn't seem to work very well (vs a keel system) until
it's well heeled over).

On another day I beat up one with my boat (a 23 year old Farr 7500
trailer sailer) - in about 12 kts of wind. It held it's ground
*reasonably* well against us - well ok - we thrashed it really.
(Perhaps the (new?) owner wasn't sailing it very well???).

At the other end (powering) - though the website boasts about being able
to waterski behind it - jeez - yer'd be hard pressed I think.

It's pretty spartan inside - mind it's very roomy too (the claimed 6' of
headroom I measurd it at just under that (5'10" to 11")). The roomyness
is at expense of storage (not helped I guess by the water ballast
system). There is very little storage. The water ballast system is
great for when it's empty; out of the water and on the trailer :)

If you want to sail fast and do lots of waterskiing too - it doesn't cut
the mustard. If you want to cruise fairly non-adventurously and have a
boat that can do 15+kts also under power - it's pretty damn good I
think. Certainly great value for money IMO for the less adventurous w'
wife and kids. For that sorta person, you'll have just as much fun as
anyone else.

--
Duncan


20 Jan 2006 00:15:39
John Cairns
Re: MacGregor 26


"TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote in message
news:dqoup0$j9v$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> looked impressive for the price......
>
> TonyB

Neither fish nor fowl. Doesn't sail or motor particularly well. I know a
German? company was/is building a similar boat, on this side of the pond
it's being marketed as the "Mast 28", if you do a google you can get more
info on it. On this side of the pond it was fairly expensive compared to the
Mac, on your side that may be different. What can you say about the Mac? It
is fairly expensive, over here the boat most people end up getting costs
around 30k USD by the time you pay for all of the options, those 50 hp
outboards are fairly pricey, for starters. So, you now own a boat that you
paid 30k for, you decide you don't like it, you can get how much for it on
the second hand market? Wouldn't have a real big problem with that, but Mac
still advertises a "loss leader" price for the boat, they let their
"dealers" sell the boats optioned out, dealer makes much $$$, Mac sells
their boats. You have to admire their success, the whole business started
out as a master's thesis by the owner, Roger MacGregor, the basis was that
he could design, build and market sailboats at a larger profit margin than
the traditional builders, and he was absolutely correct. My real beef is
that they may be introducing novices to sailing and said novices will become
disenchanted with the idea of "sailing" and give it up, hopefully this isn't
the case.

John Cairns




20 Jan 2006 07:24:25
Arturo Ui
Re: MacGregor 26

> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> looked impressive for the price......

An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.

Artie




20 Jan 2006 21:19:33
Duncan McC (NZ)
Re: MacGregor 26

In article <Je0Af.4259$mf2.2277@newsfe6-win.ntli.net >,
armageddon_now@hotmail.com says...
> > What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> > looked impressive for the price......
>
> An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
> anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.

I'm not familiar with the F scale - however I managed to Google this...

http://www.marinewaypoints.com/marine/wind.shtml


F4
Devastating tornado 207-260 mph
180-226 knots
333-419 kph
2% Devastating Damage - Few walls, if any, standing in well-built
houses, structures with weak foundations blown off some distance,
large steel and concrete missiles thrown far distances, cars thrown.

Jeez - I wouldn't have the confidence to go within 5 miles of any water!
:)


--
Duncan


20 Jan 2006 09:51:24
Iain Hibbert
Re: MacGregor 26

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:15:39 +0000, John Cairns wrote:

> Wouldn't have a real big problem with that, but Mac
> still advertises a "loss leader" price for the boat, they let their
> "dealers" sell the boats optioned out, dealer makes much $$$, Mac sells
> their boats.

John, perchance you can explain your 'loss leader' comment?

AFAIK, this is a technique used by major supermarkets (in the past - its
generally illegal in the EU) to sell certain lines at lower than the cost
price in the hope of getting people in the store so that they buy your
other goods and you make an overall profit.

I just can't see this applying to a yacht, if they sell the yacht at less
than the price it costs to make then they are stuffed, surely?

--
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ireland&ll=52.2711,-9.8630&spn=0.0244,0.0822&t=k



20 Jan 2006 10:19:53
Chris
Re: MacGregor 26


"Duncan McC (NZ)" <nospam@nospam.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.1e3b643e868802c989bc3@news.paradise.net.nz...
> In article <Je0Af.4259$mf2.2277@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
> armageddon_now@hotmail.com says...
(snip)
> > An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
> > anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.
>
> I'm not familiar with the F scale - however I managed to Google this...
>
> http://www.marinewaypoints.com/marine/wind.shtml
>
>
> F4
> Devastating tornado 207-260 mph
> 180-226 knots
> 333-419 kph
> 2% Devastating Damage - Few walls, if any, standing in well-built
> houses, structures with weak foundations blown off some distance,
> large steel and concrete missiles thrown far distances, cars thrown.
>
> Jeez - I wouldn't have the confidence to go within 5 miles of any water!
> :)
>
>
No - that's a different 'hurricane scale' you are looking at.

He is referrring to the Beaufort Scale wherein:
Force 4
13-18mph
20-28kph
11-16knots
Moderate Breeze
Small branches move, raises dust, leaves and paper.
Small waves develop, becoming longer, whitecaps

Fine sailing weather to most small yachtsmen's minds but tame for many
larger yachts.

Floatything




20 Jan 2006 04:43:01
Arturo Ui
Re: MacGregor 26

Blimey - 180-226 knots - I'm not surprised that he had no confidence in
his Mac 26's abilities!

I think he really meant a Force 4!

Artie



20 Jan 2006 17:29:12
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 21:19:33 +1300, Duncan McC (NZ)
<nospam@nospam.com > wrote:

>In article <Je0Af.4259$mf2.2277@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>,
>armageddon_now@hotmail.com says...
>> > What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
>> > looked impressive for the price......
>>
>> An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
>> anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.
>
>I'm not familiar with the F scale - however I managed to Google this...
>
>http://www.marinewaypoints.com/marine/wind.shtml
>
>
>F4
>Devastating tornado 207-260 mph
>180-226 knots
>333-419 kph
>2% Devastating Damage - Few walls, if any, standing in well-built
>houses, structures with weak foundations blown off some distance,
>large steel and concrete missiles thrown far distances, cars thrown.
>
>Jeez - I wouldn't have the confidence to go within 5 miles of any water!
>:)

Stupid boy! ;O)
--
Martin


20 Jan 2006 18:05:52
Nigel
Re: MacGregor 26

> F4
> Devastating tornado 207-260 mph
> 180-226 knots
> 333-419 kph
> 2% Devastating Damage - Few walls, if any, standing in well-built
> houses, structures with weak foundations blown off some distance,
> large steel and concrete missiles thrown far distances, cars thrown.
>
> Jeez - I wouldn't have the confidence to go within 5 miles of any water!
> :)
>


yeah.... but you'd be ok in a Bavaria :-)




20 Jan 2006 18:35:48
John Cairns
Re: MacGregor 26


"Iain Hibbert" <plunky@inter.net > wrote in message
news:pan.2006.01.20.09.51.23.276148@inter.net...
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 00:15:39 +0000, John Cairns wrote:
>
>> Wouldn't have a real big problem with that, but Mac
>> still advertises a "loss leader" price for the boat, they let their
>> "dealers" sell the boats optioned out, dealer makes much $$$, Mac sells
>> their boats.
>
> John, perchance you can explain your 'loss leader' comment?
>
> AFAIK, this is a technique used by major supermarkets (in the past - its
> generally illegal in the EU) to sell certain lines at lower than the cost
> price in the hope of getting people in the store so that they buy your
> other goods and you make an overall profit.
>
> I just can't see this applying to a yacht, if they sell the yacht at less
> than the price it costs to make then they are stuffed, surely?
>
> --
> http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ireland&ll=52.2711,-9.8630&spn=0.0244,0.0822&t=k

Wrong term. What they do is closer to a bait and switch. You can buy it for
around $19k USD + freight and any dealer commission charges. Of course, the
outboard is going to cost another 3-5k, throw on all of the other dealer
installed options that you really need, next thing you know the boat is well
over $30k. At the time I first noticed how much folks were actually paying
for new Macs-we had a few for sale locally, the sellers wrote in the ads
they paid over 30k for them new, and were selling them a year old for
22k-Mac was advertising the price in print ads at 16,995 usd. Yeah, I know
it's not illegal, but I feel it is at least slightly unethical to try to
take advantage of an individuals lack of resistance to common sales
techniques, especially when you consider that the average buyer may have
been shopping price and used the "advertised" 19k price as his comparison
basis. If you use 30k+ as your comparison basis, there are quite a few more
boats that you can compare this particular boat with. I just hate to see
folks buy something like this new, become disenchanted with their purchase
decision, then take a bath when they try to sell the thing.

John Cairns




21 Jan 2006 08:51:08
Iain Hibbert
Re: MacGregor 26

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 18:35:48 +0000, John Cairns wrote:

> Yeah, I know
> it's not illegal, but I feel it is at least slightly unethical to try to
> take advantage of an individuals lack of resistance to common sales
> techniques,

I dont know what the answer to that is, I think maybe it should be illegal
too.

--
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ireland&ll=52.2711,-9.8630&spn=0.0244,0.0822&t=k



21 Jan 2006 21:07:27
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.

I wouldn't want a fast sailing boat with a 50hp motor, that feature doesn't
impress me. Anyway, the idea of a 50hp lump on the back is not going to
improve the sailing qualities one little bit.

My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the rather
benign Broads in Norfolk. The option of sailing with a partially retracted
keel for the shallow bits is useful too.

Thus, the optional extras for me would include the roller furling at 495
and the mast raising system at 79. I reckon I can get a Thetford potti for
less than the 82 quoted and would allow 50 for that feature aftermarket.
The other options are:
Mainsail & winch covers 155 - I can live without.
Cockpit cushions 200 - bet I can get similar for 50 at a boat jumble -
brand new!
Bimini 375 oh come on!
232 for an Origo cooker - I'll manage with my 9.99 camping stove (s).
539 Sea toilet - I'll use the porta potti.
Compass with light - 131 - I'll use my existing one with a torch.
425 cruising spinnaker - I don't like 'em much so wouldn't bother.
510 genny sail, hm... might be useful that one....
1900 upgrade to galvanised trailer - nope, I could use Hammerite!
131 spare wheel for trailer. I'll use the latex stuff - or Green Flag!
342 blue gelcoat. Who cares?
998 Anti fouling paint....Whaaaa!!!!! It's 26 feet not the Queen Mary!
Engines - 4,920 2 stroke 50 hp or 5369 for the 4 stroke. No thanks.
98 fuel tank. 12 us galls. Bet I can find that cheaper on ebay too, but my
existing motor has a 6 gall UK tank with it.

So total for me would be 19,614. Not bad.

MacGregor reckon it's sinkproof too due to the foam core, which is a
comforting thought.

It's all useless if they sail badly though, but for a crusing inland sailor
looking for value and room, it seems good to me. Wonder how long they'll
last?

TonyB




21 Jan 2006 22:17:02
Alan Frame
Re: MacGregor 26

TonyB <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

> Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.
>[]
> My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the rather
> benign Broads in Norfolk.
[]
> Bimini 375 oh come on!

Hehehe.

Another fact to join "Hawaiians are not great fans of ice hockey"

"Sailors on the Norfolk Broads tend not to require biminis"

How about an EPIRP?

Norfolk Broads MOB drill "Oi! Stand up, you idiot" ;-)

rgds, 'Never done Hunter's, but a fan of Eastwood Whelpton' Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5


21 Jan 2006 23:24:26
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Sat, 21 Jan 2006 22:17:02 +0000, alan.frame@acm.org (Alan Frame)
wrote:

>TonyB <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.
>>[]
>> My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the rather
>> benign Broads in Norfolk.
>[]
>> Bimini 375 oh come on!
>
>Hehehe.
>
>Another fact to join "Hawaiians are not great fans of ice hockey"
>
>"Sailors on the Norfolk Broads tend not to require biminis"

Bimbo Broads charge more, ask the good craptain.

He must be sick not to have responded to a Mac 26 post by now.
--
Martin


21 Jan 2006 23:49:09
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

> Norfolk Broads MOB drill "Oi! Stand up, you idiot" ;-)
>
> rgds, 'Never done Hunter's, but a fan of Eastwood Whelpton' Alan

You've got it Alan. No chance of an auto lifejacket going off on the Broads!

I've done Rebel Reveller but not the cabin boats. No engine? Scary stuff.
TonyB




22 Jan 2006 01:10:04
John Cairns
Re: MacGregor 26


"TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote in message
news:dqu7qe$fup$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.
>
> I wouldn't want a fast sailing boat with a 50hp motor, that feature
> doesn't
> impress me. Anyway, the idea of a 50hp lump on the back is not going to
> improve the sailing qualities one little bit.
>
> My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the
> rather
> benign Broads in Norfolk. The option of sailing with a partially retracted
> keel for the shallow bits is useful too.
>
> Thus, the optional extras for me would include the roller furling at 495
> and the mast raising system at 79. I reckon I can get a Thetford potti
> for
> less than the 82 quoted and would allow 50 for that feature aftermarket.
> The other options are:
> Mainsail & winch covers 155 - I can live without.
> Cockpit cushions 200 - bet I can get similar for 50 at a boat jumble -
> brand new!
> Bimini 375 oh come on!
> 232 for an Origo cooker - I'll manage with my 9.99 camping stove (s).
> 539 Sea toilet - I'll use the porta potti.
> Compass with light - 131 - I'll use my existing one with a torch.
> 425 cruising spinnaker - I don't like 'em much so wouldn't bother.
> 510 genny sail, hm... might be useful that one....
> 1900 upgrade to galvanised trailer - nope, I could use Hammerite!
> 131 spare wheel for trailer. I'll use the latex stuff - or Green Flag!
> 342 blue gelcoat. Who cares?
> 998 Anti fouling paint....Whaaaa!!!!! It's 26 feet not the Queen Mary!
> Engines - 4,920 2 stroke 50 hp or 5369 for the 4 stroke. No thanks.
> 98 fuel tank. 12 us galls. Bet I can find that cheaper on ebay too, but
> my
> existing motor has a 6 gall UK tank with it.
>
> So total for me would be 19,614. Not bad.
>
> MacGregor reckon it's sinkproof too due to the foam core, which is a
> comforting thought.
>
> It's all useless if they sail badly though, but for a crusing inland
> sailor
> looking for value and room, it seems good to me. Wonder how long they'll
> last?
>
> TonyB

http://tinylink.com/?6DIwrbPCcA

The Mast 28. Made by a German company IIRC, haven't actually seen one on the
water, only at the boat show.

http://tinylink.com/?XvPYLymE8q

Now, this is only anecdotal evidence, but why are there so many of these for
sale on the secondhand market? I have been told, by someone who's judgement
I trust, that they do have a very narrow sailing window, basically between
8-12kts. Anything below eight and they don't want to move-which I've seen
firsthand-anything over 12 and they're overpowered, even with the tiny
sailplan. There are quite a few better choices in trailerable sailboats in
this size range.

John Cairns





22 Jan 2006 12:59:55
Arturo Ui
Re: MacGregor 26

> Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.

Have some of this: http://www.tide28.com/

A silly question, I know, but if you are looking for a boat to use on the
broads, buy a broads boat and a little outboard.

The Mac sails like cack, (Don't see that rhyme on their sales bumf, though)
so buy a yacht shape yacht with a mast lifting kit and shallow draft.

BTW - the 'heads' in my boat cost me 1.00. If you buy a similar bucket
always make sure it is a different colour to the one you wash up
in.............

Artie


> My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the
rather
> benign Broads in Norfolk. The option of sailing with a partially retracted
> keel for the shallow bits is useful too.
>
> Thus, the optional extras for me would include the roller furling at 495
> and the mast raising system at 79. I reckon I can get a Thetford potti
for
> less than the 82 quoted and would allow 50 for that feature aftermarket.
> The other options are:
> Mainsail & winch covers 155 - I can live without.
> Cockpit cushions 200 - bet I can get similar for 50 at a boat jumble -
> brand new!
> Bimini 375 oh come on!
> 232 for an Origo cooker - I'll manage with my 9.99 camping stove (s).
> 539 Sea toilet - I'll use the porta potti.
> Compass with light - 131 - I'll use my existing one with a torch.
> 425 cruising spinnaker - I don't like 'em much so wouldn't bother.
> 510 genny sail, hm... might be useful that one....
> 1900 upgrade to galvanised trailer - nope, I could use Hammerite!
> 131 spare wheel for trailer. I'll use the latex stuff - or Green Flag!
> 342 blue gelcoat. Who cares?
> 998 Anti fouling paint....Whaaaa!!!!! It's 26 feet not the Queen Mary!
> Engines - 4,920 2 stroke 50 hp or 5369 for the 4 stroke. No thanks.
> 98 fuel tank. 12 us galls. Bet I can find that cheaper on ebay too, but
my
> existing motor has a 6 gall UK tank with it.
>
> So total for me would be 19,614. Not bad.
>
> MacGregor reckon it's sinkproof too due to the foam core, which is a
> comforting thought.
>
> It's all useless if they sail badly though, but for a crusing inland
sailor
> looking for value and room, it seems good to me. Wonder how long they'll
> last?
>
> TonyB
>
>




22 Jan 2006 18:18:26
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

>
> http://tinylink.com/?6DIwrbPCcA
>
> The Mast 28. Made by a German company IIRC, haven't actually seen one on
the
> water, only at the boat show.
>
> http://tinylink.com/?XvPYLymE8q
>
> Now, this is only anecdotal evidence, but why are there so many of these
for
> sale on the secondhand market? I have been told, by someone who's
judgement
> I trust, that they do have a very narrow sailing window, basically between
> 8-12kts. Anything below eight and they don't want to move-which I've seen
> firsthand-anything over 12 and they're overpowered, even with the tiny
> sailplan. There are quite a few better choices in trailerable sailboats in
> this size range.

The Mast looks good, and I don't doubt what you say about the Mac not
performing over 12 knots of wind. However, the fact reamins that the Mast
and the Tide mentioned in the next post are both approx twice the price of
the Mac. If one is prepared to pay around 36k, then many other boats enter
the equation. It's the low cost of the Mac that makes it so interesting.

Broads boats are ofeten overpowered in 12 knots plus due to their huge sail
areas, but when reefed behave well. Maybe the Mac would be similar?
TonyB




22 Jan 2006 18:24:30
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

> Have some of this: http://www.tide28.com/
>
> A silly question, I know, but if you are looking for a boat to use on the
> broads, buy a broads boat and a little outboard.
>
> The Mac sails like cack, (Don't see that rhyme on their sales bumf,
though)
> so buy a yacht shape yacht with a mast lifting kit and shallow draft.

Hi Art, See answer to previous post also. The Tide looks great and it's
British which must be worth a few pounds extra but not double. The problem
with Broads boats is that they are very expensive and do not have the
apparent versatility of the Mac, the Mast or the Tide. It would be nice to
have a boat that can be trailed to other locations and launched easily, a
big feature of the Mac.

If it sails badly then it is simply useless. Their bumpf says 17mph max but
I dread to think what conditions they were out in. Planing, they say. Phew.

We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
greater than 12 knots of wind?

TonyB




22 Jan 2006 18:59:38
Goofball_star_dot_etal
Re: MacGregor 26

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:24:30 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:


>
>If it sails badly then it is simply useless. Their bumpf says 17mph max but
>I dread to think what conditions they were out in.

Try 30 knots and work your way up...

> Planing, they say. Phew.
>
>We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
>greater than 12 knots of wind?

And lived?

>
>TonyB
>



22 Jan 2006 19:51:33
Arturo Ui
Re: MacGregor 26

> Hi Art, See answer to previous post also. The Tide looks great and it's
> British which must be worth a few pounds extra but not double. The problem
> with Broads boats is that they are very expensive and do not have the
> apparent versatility of the Mac, the Mast or the Tide. It would be nice to
> have a boat that can be trailed to other locations and launched easily, a
> big feature of the Mac.
> If it sails badly then it is simply useless. Their bumpf says 17mph max
but
> I dread to think what conditions they were out in. Planing, they say.
Phew.
> We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
> greater than 12 knots of wind?

Or have a look at: http://www.emwmarine.co.uk/prices.htm

The Malbec/Oceantech 200 & 240 both seem reasonable and both are available
with lifting keel. If stumping up the cash for a new one I'd buy the 240.

After 24 years of racing fast things with trapezes and assymetric
spinnakers, my current boat is a challenge in respect to having a 300kg
keel. It is slow, but was regarded as being a sparkling race performer for
its day. (It doesn't get reviewed along with cruisers in PBO!)

My life is too short to sail dismal boats or do things that aren't
exceptional. Don't buy a tub..... (Would you buy an average american car?)

Artie




22 Jan 2006 21:17:37
Peter HK
Re: MacGregor 26

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


"TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote in message =
news:dr0iku$rlm$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> Have some of this: http://www.tide28.com/
>>
>>>=20
> If it sails badly then it is simply useless. Their bumpf says 17mph =
max but
> I dread to think what conditions they were out in. Planing, they say. =
Phew.
>=20
> We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one =
in
> greater than 12 knots of wind?
>=20
> TonyB

I don't sail a Mac 26 but do have a Mach28- an Australian clone to the =
26x.=20
See
http://www.mackmanboats.com.au/mackman%20boats%20mach28.htm

It is a bit more sophisticated - foam glass and thus the same weight for =
a larger boat- and has over 900 kg of water ballast.
The high freeboard and generous accommodation are similar to the Mac26.

In sailing terms it is disappointing to windward (OK to about 15 knots) =
and very good off the breeze (very light after all). If you want a boat =
that tacks nicely to windward don't get a Mac- that's what the motor is =
for.

It suits me now that I've given away racing and long distance cruising =
and only want a day sailer in the local bay- I can get to the cruising =
spots, about 12-15 miles away, in an hour and run home with the =
seabreeze. Trailing is also an advantage and is quite easy even with the =
larger boat- 2,100kg total trailer weight.

HTH

Peter HK



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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" >
<HTML ><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1" >
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name=3DGENERATOR >
<STYLE ></STYLE>
</HEAD >
<BODY >
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"TonyB" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk" ><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2 >Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2 >> wrote in=20
message </FONT ><A=20
href=3D"news:dr0iku$rlm$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com" ><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2 >news:dr0iku$rlm$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com</FONT></A=
><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2 >...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>>> Have some of this: </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.tide28.com/"color=#0000FF> ><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2 >
http://www.tide28.com/</FONT></A><BR><FONTface=3DArial=20
size=3D2 >>><BR>>>> <BR>> If it sails badly then it is =
simply=20
useless. Their bumpf says 17mph max but<BR >> I dread to think what =
conditions=20
they were out in. Planing, they say. Phew.<BR >> <BR>> We need an =
authority=20
on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in<BR >> greater than =
12=20
knots of wind?<BR >> <BR>> TonyB</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't sail a Mac 26 but do have a =
Mach28- an=20
Australian clone to the 26x. </FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>See</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.mackmanboats.com.au/mackman%20boats%20mach28.htm"color=#0000FF> >http=
://www.mackmanboats.com.au/mackman%20boats%20mach28.htm</A ></FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is a bit more sophisticated - foam =
glass and=20
thus the same weight for a larger boat- and has over 900 kg of water=20
ballast.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The high freeboard and generous =
accommodation are=20
similar to the Mac26.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In sailing terms it is disappointing to =
windward=20
(OK to about 15 knots) and very good off the breeze (very light =
after all).=20
If you want a boat that tacks nicely to windward don't get a Mac- that's =
what=20
the motor is for.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It suits me now that I've given away =
racing and=20
long distance cruising and only want a day sailer in the local bay- I =
can get to=20
the cruising spots, about 12-15 miles away, in an hour and run home =
with=20
the seabreeze. Trailing is also an advantage and is quite easy even with =
the=20
larger boat- 2,100kg total trailer weight.</FONT ></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>HTH</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Peter HK</FONT></DIV>
<DIV ><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV ><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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23 Jan 2006 12:45:55
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:18:26 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

>>
>> http://tinylink.com/?6DIwrbPCcA
>>
>> The Mast 28. Made by a German company IIRC, haven't actually seen one on
>the
>> water, only at the boat show.
>>
>> http://tinylink.com/?XvPYLymE8q
>>
>> Now, this is only anecdotal evidence, but why are there so many of these
>for
>> sale on the secondhand market? I have been told, by someone who's
>judgement
>> I trust, that they do have a very narrow sailing window, basically between
>> 8-12kts. Anything below eight and they don't want to move-which I've seen
>> firsthand-anything over 12 and they're overpowered, even with the tiny
>> sailplan. There are quite a few better choices in trailerable sailboats in
>> this size range.
>
>The Mast looks good, and I don't doubt what you say about the Mac not
>performing over 12 knots of wind. However, the fact reamins that the Mast
>and the Tide mentioned in the next post are both approx twice the price of
>the Mac. If one is prepared to pay around 36k, then many other boats enter
>the equation. It's the low cost of the Mac that makes it so interesting.

Why do you think a boat built in the USA is so cheap?

>
>Broads boats are ofeten overpowered in 12 knots plus due to their huge sail
>areas, but when reefed behave well. Maybe the Mac would be similar?
>TonyB
>

You'd do better buying a good second hand boat.
--
Martin


23 Jan 2006 12:47:25
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:24:30 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

>> Have some of this: http://www.tide28.com/
>>
>> A silly question, I know, but if you are looking for a boat to use on the
>> broads, buy a broads boat and a little outboard.
>>
>> The Mac sails like cack, (Don't see that rhyme on their sales bumf,
>though)
>> so buy a yacht shape yacht with a mast lifting kit and shallow draft.
>
>Hi Art, See answer to previous post also. The Tide looks great and it's
>British which must be worth a few pounds extra but not double. The problem
>with Broads boats is that they are very expensive and do not have the
>apparent versatility of the Mac, the Mast or the Tide. It would be nice to
>have a boat that can be trailed to other locations and launched easily, a
>big feature of the Mac.
>
>If it sails badly then it is simply useless. Their bumpf says 17mph max but
>I dread to think what conditions they were out in. Planing, they say. Phew.
>
>We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
>greater than 12 knots of wind?

Look/ask on one of the US boat newsgroups. 6 or 7 years ago the Mac 26
was the main topic.
--
Martin


23 Jan 2006 12:52:15
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:59:38 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
<who@needs.email.anyhow > wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:24:30 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
><Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote:

>>We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
>>greater than 12 knots of wind?
>
>And lived?

Back to Craptain Neal's Mac 26 owning friend Ed Gordon (EGordon873)
--
Martin


23 Jan 2006 14:41:31
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

> Why do you think a boat built in the USA is so cheap?

**Because they make 'em by the thousand - it's the Ford scenario, mass
production equals low cost, not necessarily cheap and nasty but with that
possibility - which I am trying to evaluate by asking here.
>
> >
**Broads boats are often overpowered in 12 knots plus due to their huge sail
> >areas, but when reefed behave well. Maybe the Mac would be similar?
>
> You'd do better buying a good second hand boat.

**Yes, that is the equation - one can get a decent secondhand bilge keel
Westerly Centaur which is the same length and built like a tank for around
12 grand. But then one also inherits all the problems that may crop up like
unreliable engines, leaky windows, tatty this that and the other and so on.
And there is something rather nice about a brand new boat......

TonyB




23 Jan 2006 07:01:45
Re: MacGregor 26

Alan Frame wrote:
> TonyB <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.
> >[]
> > My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the r=
ather
> > benign Broads in Norfolk.
> []
> > Bimini =A3 375 oh come on!
>
> Hehehe.
>
> Another fact to join "Hawaiians are not great fans of ice hockey"
>
> "Sailors on the Norfolk Broads tend not to require biminis"
>
> How about an EPIRP?
>
> Norfolk Broads MOB drill "Oi! Stand up, you idiot" ;-)

<grin >

I suspect a mobile phone would be adequate comms equipment, too!



23 Jan 2006 16:55:31
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 14:41:31 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

>> Why do you think a boat built in the USA is so cheap?
>
>**Because they make 'em by the thousand - it's the Ford scenario, mass
>production equals low cost, not necessarily cheap and nasty but with that
>possibility - which I am trying to evaluate by asking here.

French and German boats are mass produced too.

>>
>> >
>**Broads boats are often overpowered in 12 knots plus due to their huge sail
>> >areas, but when reefed behave well. Maybe the Mac would be similar?
>>
>> You'd do better buying a good second hand boat.
>
>**Yes, that is the equation - one can get a decent secondhand bilge keel
>Westerly Centaur which is the same length and built like a tank for around
>12 grand. But then one also inherits all the problems that may crop up like
>unreliable engines, leaky windows, tatty this that and the other and so on.
>And there is something rather nice about a brand new boat......

You also get half a dozen sails, a compass, echo sounder, log,
probably an oven, mast lowering gear, and all the other things you
don't get with a new boat.
You don't have to buy second hand something as old as a Centaur. A
Centaur is not a very good example. My Centaur has just had it's 33rd
birthday and still has it's original reliable engine and doesn't have
leaky windows.
If it's only for use on the Broads take the old engine out and stick
an outboard on the back.
--
Martin


23 Jan 2006 16:56:06
Martin
Re: MacGregor 26

On 23 Jan 2006 07:01:45 -0800, toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

>Alan Frame wrote:
>> TonyB <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for the replies - I couldn't find the Mast 28 referred to though.
>> >[]
>> > My plan would be to stick my existing 6hp on and use it mainly on the rather
>> > benign Broads in Norfolk.
>> []
>> > Bimini 375 oh come on!
>>
>> Hehehe.
>>
>> Another fact to join "Hawaiians are not great fans of ice hockey"
>>
>> "Sailors on the Norfolk Broads tend not to require biminis"
>>
>> How about an EPIRP?
>>
>> Norfolk Broads MOB drill "Oi! Stand up, you idiot" ;-)
>
><grin>
>
>I suspect a mobile phone would be adequate comms equipment, too!

or even a megaphone?
--
Martin


23 Jan 2006 17:53:33
Goofball_star_dot_etal
Re: MacGregor 26

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:52:15 +0100, Martin <me@privacy.net > wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:59:38 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
><who@needs.email.anyhow> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 18:24:30 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
>><Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>We need an authority on the Mac here, has anybody actually sailed one in
>>>greater than 12 knots of wind?
>>
>>And lived?
>
>Back to Craptain Neal's Mac 26 owning friend Ed Gordon (EGordon873)

I am pleased to report that the good Craptain has escaped the clutches
of Lady Pilot and has gone cruising until it is safe to return. He
posts occassionaly from schools (they say) and, one must assume, from
VD clinics.



26 Jan 2006 23:18:22
Ian Sandell
Re: MacGregor 26

On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:24:25 GMT, "Arturo Ui"
<armageddon_now@hotmail.com > wrote:

>> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
>> looked impressive for the price......
>
>An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
>anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.

But I know ppl who wont sail above F5 in boats that can cross the
Atlantic. Maybe a reflection more on the sailor than the boat as I
have seen them out sailing in Solent in 5/6 (and I dont enjoy 6 and
above in the solent).

Ian


26 Jan 2006 15:36:25
Re: MacGregor 26

Ian Sandell wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2006 07:24:25 GMT, "Arturo Ui"
> <armageddon_now@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
> >> looked impressive for the price......
> >
> >An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
> >anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.
>
> But I know ppl who wont sail above F5 in boats that can cross the
> Atlantic.

LOL! My father knows a couple with a Blue Water Cruising yacht. They
needed someone to help bring it round to the solent from the West
Country. I spent the friday night with them hearing about how totally
seaworthy it was and how it could withstand any sea and they wouldn't
put to sea in anything without it's cast iron blue water
characteristics. We set off the following morning in a Northerly F4 -
flat sea. We got out of the Harbour and he insisted on sticking two
reefs in and using a tiny jib. As a guest on their boat I was in no
position to argue so we made our way on a broad reach bolt upright at
about 2.5kts. On that point of sailing the light French boats they
hated so much could easily have cracked on at about 7kts carrying full
main and a massive mast head kite without any problem at all but it
seems their blue water yacht apparently couldn't! :-) :-) :-)



27 Jan 2006 19:26:09
TonyB
Re: MacGregor 26

> >
> > >> What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show
and it
> > >> looked impressive for the price......
> > >
> > >An old colleague of mine had one - he wouldn't sail it on the Solent in
> > >anything more than an F4 as he didn't have confidence in it.
> >
> > But I know ppl who wont sail above F5 in boats that can cross the
> > Atlantic.
>
> LOL! My father knows a couple with a Blue Water Cruising yacht. They
> needed someone to help bring it round to the solent from the West
> Country. I spent the friday night with them hearing about how totally
> seaworthy it was and how it could withstand any sea and they wouldn't
> put to sea in anything without it's cast iron blue water
> characteristics. We set off the following morning in a Northerly F4 -
> flat sea. We got out of the Harbour and he insisted on sticking two
> reefs in and using a tiny jib. As a guest on their boat I was in no
> position to argue so we made our way on a broad reach bolt upright at
> about 2.5kts. On that point of sailing the light French boats they
> hated so much could easily have cracked on at about 7kts carrying full
> main and a massive mast head kite without any problem at all but it
> seems their blue water yacht apparently couldn't! :-) :-) :-)
>
I'm grateful for all the comments on my post. Nothing has been said which
would put me off trying one at least!
Now all I need to do is find one which shouldn't be too hard if so many are
up for sale!
TonyB




28 Jan 2006 06:41:47
Ann Mammontoo
Re: MacGregor 26

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 21:02:24 +0000 (UTC), "TonyB"
<Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote:

>What's the groups' opinion of this boat? I saw one at the boat show and it
>looked impressive for the price......
>
>TonyB
>
There were more of these sold in America than any other boat. One
salesman from California said he'd sold more of these than all others
put together. Is this what you what?



28 Jan 2006 19:01:06
Arturo Ui
Re: MacGregor 26

> I'm grateful for all the comments on my post. Nothing has been said which
> would put me off trying one at least!
> Now all I need to do is find one which shouldn't be too hard if so many
are
> up for sale!

And I'm always up for a sail in someone else's boat - so I don't blame you!

Careful you don't buy one though! I'd suggest sailing one 'back to back'
with a conventional (Non-speedboat) cruiser - shouldn't be too difficult if
you pick on a brokerage with a number of different boats for sale. (Whether
or not you'd buy from them!)

Artie