11 Jan 2007 21:51:14
The Caretaker
Boating newbie .... advice ??

Hi,

Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
in various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and
to own and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so almost
anything towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty that we
will also have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth sometime
in 2008/9 that will allow something much larger.

We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the
(Holme Pierrepont) National Watersports centre and have really, really
taken to it, despite horribly cold windy weather. Can't wait for the
sun, to be honest.

Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear,
clothing etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a
bigger (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_
want, and will by then have about 140k to spend.

So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

We want something suitable for novices but which is possibly sailable
across the channel, say, and round into the Med. Is even this, we think
reasonable ambition, a little too ambitious perhaps? We are likely to
retire (48 years old) next year so time-out for a voyage of this sort is
not a worry. Obviously the boat needs to be large enough to live on for
a few weeks at a time. We're used to caravans and tents and have no
worries about small spaces and 'packing', more the general amenities and
provision for cooking/living etc Eventually we think we might fancy a
roving lifestyle and perhaps live on the boat. That may be a pipedream
but we are, at this stage, serious about it.

We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we
could afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of
freedom from fuel taxes etc.

We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
first thing we see. :)

Cheers.

--
The Caretaker ........


12 Jan 2007 06:54:14
Keith
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In message <mjyph.42$8j7.26@newsfe1-win.ntli.net >, The Caretaker
<the_caretaker@hotmail.com > writes
>Hi,
>
>Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
>in various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and
>to own and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so
>almost anything towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty
>that we will also have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth
>sometime in 2008/9 that will allow something much larger.
>
<...snip content... >
>
>We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
>any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
>suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
>first thing we see. :)
>
I would recommend a flotilla holiday before you invest your capital.

Have a look at Sailing Holidays website - or visit the Boat Show before
Sunday.
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


12 Jan 2007 07:03:24
The Caretaker
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Keith wrote:
> In message <mjyph.42$8j7.26@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>, The Caretaker
> <the_caretaker@hotmail.com> writes
>> Hi,
>>
>> Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
>> in various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and
>> to own and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so
>> almost anything towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty
>> that we will also have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth
>> sometime in 2008/9 that will allow something much larger.
>>
> <...snip content...>
>>
>> We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open
>> to any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase
>> of a suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to
>> the first thing we see. :)
>>
> I would recommend a flotilla holiday before you invest your capital.

Heh, being a newbie to sailing I had to google that ... ;)

> Have a look at Sailing Holidays website - or visit the Boat Show before
> Sunday.

Thanks for that. We're going to the Boat Show on Saturday.


--
The Caretaker ........


12 Jan 2007 19:02:31
Adam H
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

> We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the
> (Holme Pierrepont) National Watersports centre and have really, really
> taken to it, despite horribly cold windy weather. Can't wait for the sun,
> to be honest.

Blimey, right where I proposed to my wife!

> Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
> money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
> available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear, clothing
> etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a bigger
> (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_ want, and
> will by then have about 140k to spend.

30k is loads, please don't spend it all at once.

> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

Finish your sailing course and join that nice little club about 200 metres
away (Nottingham SC). Buy a National 12, GP 14 or a pair of lasers. Sail
them for a couple of years, racing them on both Thursdays and Sundays for at
least the whole of the second season. (Whatever the weather) Don't capsize
down river of the clubhouse...... (The weir)

Keep reading Practical Boat owner.

Then, go shopping for a cruiser.

> We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we could
> afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of freedom from
> fuel taxes etc.

Absolutely, anything with sails is good, anything with anything more than
8hp engine is v. bad. If it has a steam engine and is shaped like an
elegant steam launch with cutter style bow, please invite me out for the
day, I'll bring the champagne and smoked salmon sandwiches!

> We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
> any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
> suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
> first thing we see. :)

Enjou one of the nicest sports I've ever known! If it doesn't work out,
give it up and learn to skydive at Langar!

Adam




12 Jan 2007 20:51:27
Richard
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

My pennyworth is

1. Don't put too much priority on trailer sailing

I started sailing just last April, buying a 21' - so that it would be
trailable
(against advice from people who told me that trailing, launching and
recovery is just too much hassle)
AND
Sure enough - I've still not towed it anywhere. It's permanently afloat.

2. So, my advice is :-
- to join a club
- sail on as many boats as you can in various weather conditions

Then work out what size and model of boat you need - for sailing comfort and
for personal space
Then see how good an example you can get with your cash


.3. ...and allow 5k for all the extras (clothes, electronics, mooring,
etc)
unless you can find a deal that includes all the kit

PS
I was also advised that your first boat is never the one that you really
wanted
it just lets you realise what boat you should have bought
hence item 2 above





"The Caretaker" <the_caretaker@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:mjyph.42$8j7.26@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and in
> various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and to own
> and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so almost anything
> towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty that we will also
> have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth sometime in 2008/9
> that will allow something much larger.
>
> We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the
> (Holme Pierrepont) National Watersports centre and have really, really
> taken to it, despite horribly cold windy weather. Can't wait for the sun,
> to be honest.
>
> Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
> money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
> available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear, clothing
> etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a bigger
> (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_ want, and
> will by then have about 140k to spend.
>
> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?
>
> We want something suitable for novices but which is possibly sailable
> across the channel, say, and round into the Med. Is even this, we think
> reasonable ambition, a little too ambitious perhaps? We are likely to
> retire (48 years old) next year so time-out for a voyage of this sort is
> not a worry. Obviously the boat needs to be large enough to live on for a
> few weeks at a time. We're used to caravans and tents and have no worries
> about small spaces and 'packing', more the general amenities and provision
> for cooking/living etc Eventually we think we might fancy a roving
> lifestyle and perhaps live on the boat. That may be a pipedream but we
> are, at this stage, serious about it.
>
> We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we could
> afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of freedom from
> fuel taxes etc.
>
> We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
> any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
> suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
> first thing we see. :)
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> The Caretaker ........




12 Jan 2007 21:57:21
Alastair
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 20:51:27 -0000, "Richard"
<richard.k.baker@btopenzone.com > wrote:

>My pennyworth is
>
>1. Don't put too much priority on trailer sailing
>
>I started sailing just last April, buying a 21' - so that it would be
>trailable
>(against advice from people who told me that trailing, launching and
>recovery is just too much hassle)
>AND
>Sure enough - I've still not towed it anywhere. It's permanently afloat.
>

Let me second this. I have been a trailer sailor for the last 25 years
and wouldnt want a boat that couldn't be easily moved around the
country. At the moment I have an 18 footer that is a pain to launch
and a 14ft coastal cruiser of very unusual design which makes it easy
to launch. I wouldn't want to regularly launch anything bigger than
the 14ft, which unfortunately is only big enough for one.

Mind you, being able to tow it home at the end of the season makes the
winter maintenance much easier.


--
Alastair


12 Jan 2007 22:17:43
TonyB
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

> > Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
in
> > various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and to
own
> > and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so almost
anything
> > towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty that we will also
> > have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth sometime in 2008/9
> > that will allow something much larger.

** Towing is possible, but something of a pain to do. It involves dropping
and stowing the mast
and launching and recovery is not as easy as it sounds. You can have a lift
in/out though which is easier.

You said "we" ; I assume that means just the two of you, the choice of boat
will be greatly influenced by the number of people living aboard.
> >
> > We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the
> > (Holme Pierrepont) National Watersports centre and have really, really
> > taken to it, despite horribly cold windy weather. Can't wait for the
sun,
> > to be honest.

**Dinghies teach you a lot and your course and a bit of sailing this season
will be a great grounding.
Keel yachts are easier to sail but harder to moor being bigger, and they are
much "safer" in that it is harder to capsize one than a dinghy. When I
changed I found the idea of cleating off the mainsheet very spooky at first!
> >
> > Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
> > money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
> > available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear,
clothing
> > etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a bigger
> > (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_ want,
and
> > will by then have about 140k to spend.

** I'd allow about 20 for the boat and keep the rest in reserve for
moorings, sails etc.
You should get a nice starter boat for that and provided it's not too new it
will keep its value.

> >
> > So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

** Forget a couple of years. You will be able to make that decision when the
time comes.
For now, for the sort of time you'll be aboard to the Med for two of you,
I'd say a bare minimum of a 25 footer
but bigger than a 35 will probably not gain you anything other than extra
expense.

> >
> > We want something suitable for novices but which is possibly sailable
> > across the channel, say, and round into the Med. Is even this, we think
> > reasonable ambition, a little too ambitious perhaps? We are likely to
> > retire (48 years old) next year so time-out for a voyage of this sort is
> > not a worry. Obviously the boat needs to be large enough to live on for
a
> > few weeks at a time. We're used to caravans and tents and have no
worries
> > about small spaces and 'packing', more the general amenities and
provision
> > for cooking/living etc Eventually we think we might fancy a roving
> > lifestyle and perhaps live on the boat. That may be a pipedream but we
> > are, at this stage, serious about it.

**I've sailed a 34 footer singlehanded but it had all the tricks - furling
sails and electric anchor windlass.
It's my experience, others may disagree, that below 30 feet a boat handles
like a smallish boat and above 30
they tend to have a big boat feel to them. That's a wild generalisation
though.

> >
> > We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we
could
> > afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of freedom from
> > fuel taxes etc.

** You may want to consider a catamaran as well, more living space. I agree
about the motor boats,
typical big boats only do a couple of miles to the gallon, and if the engine
breaks you're stuffed at sea!
> >
> > We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
> > any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
> > suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
> > first thing we see. :)

** First decision - wood or plastic? Wood is generally cheaper and readily
repaired but needs more maintenance.
Plastic tends to be faster too. I'm lazy, I'd go for plastic.

If I were doing this with my wife, and I am thinking along those lines, the
32 foot Dufour we had last year would do nicely.
You will always be short of space, we are even in a house! Boats do come up
on ebay at good prices, although the nature of auctions means getting a
survey done quickly can be tricky. Otherwise something like
http://www.sailingholidays.com/news-detail.asp_Q_RecordID_E_4729 might do
the job.

Hope to see you on the Broads, I'm at Hickling in a 22 footer. You might
find hiring a boat from
Norfolk Broads Yachting http://www.norfolk-broads.com/a useful experience
too, if you can sail a 35 foot keelboat up a Broads river you can certainly
cope with the Gibraltar Straits Entrance! ( Only joking, I haven't done that
bit yet. )

TonyB




12 Jan 2007 23:55:45
Quilljar
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

+
Because a boat is very personal, no-one can really advise you very
accurately. Some swear by trailer sailors, others won't touch them. I have
owned trailers and larger cruisers. Personally I would never want to own a
boat that rocks when I jump aboard! That means nothing under 32 ft!
The truth is that a boat is never large enough, so sail with a club and
certainly go for a flotilla holiday, Sunsail is as good as any. Take the RYA
Coastal Skippers practical course, and make your mind up to spend what you
can afford after that. You may find that after a couple of days really rough
weather, you won't ever want to sail again!

--
Cheers,

Quilly






Sorry, but an individual reply goes into my spam filter




13 Jan 2007 00:39:17
Nick Temple-Fry
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:55:45 -0000, "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk > wrote:


>The truth is that a boat is never large enough

Well clipped.

Nowadays a boat is often too large for the sailors( with their
experience) to handle, so they motor instead of sail. Duck from
marina to marina and pay large amounts (or spend large amounts of
time) on maintenance. The yachting mags (and of course the
manufacturers, nolonger alas boatyards) trade on this to sell their
ever more country cottage like Barretts boats.

Please encourage people to have the smallest boat that will meet their
needs, not the largest they can mortgage themselves to afford.

Sorry

Short rant

Nick.


13 Jan 2007 00:49:54
Derek Moody
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In article <mjyph.42$8j7.26@newsfe1-win.ntli.net >, The Caretaker
<URL:mailto:the_caretaker@hotmail.com > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
> in various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and
> to own and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so almost

> We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the

> Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
> money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
> available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear,
> clothing etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a
> bigger (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_
> want, and will by then have about 140k to spend.

Buy nothing yet. Sign up for a course which includes some navigation -
coastal skipper will do for a start. Beg or buy time afloat with someone
else in order to get a feel for it. It's -very- different from inland
waterways and you'd be daft to invest much until you're sure you're suited.

> We want something suitable for novices but which is possibly sailable
> across the channel, say, and round into the Med. Is even this, we think
> reasonable ambition, a little too ambitious perhaps? We are likely to

If you can cross the channel and have plenty of time then the rest of the
Med trip can be done coasting in short hops when conditions permit. Ireland
for eg, or even Wales from the channel are more difficult.

> We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we
> could afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of
> freedom from fuel taxes etc.

Lots of big, stable ex mfv that could be converted at a price. They won't
look very flash tied up alongside the gin palaces in the Med but they'll be
fit for weather that would convert the gp's to splinters. Displacement may
be slow but it's very fuel efficient.

If you were younger then something like a 25' westerly would be a good
starter and might be had for only a couple of grand. In the right hands
they're capable of crossing the Atlantic...

...but perhaps a bit low on creature comforts.

The next step up for most people is one of the many flimsy tupperware clones
that fill the South Coast marinas in summer, eschew. In your case I'd look
out for something solid that can take the ground (I assume you're near the E
coast Yarmouth, not the IOW.) Your budget is a little under 10k ukp
allowing for the other costs involved so start looking around the local
marinas but you're in no hurry. Take your dinghy to sea a couple of times
first, join a sailing club and crew for someone, take the nav course and
then begin shopping in earnest - by which time you'll have a good idea of
the local market.

Cheerio,

--
Fishing: http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/
Writing: http://www.author.casterbridge.net/derek-moody/
uk.rec.fishing.game Badge Page:
http://www.fishing.casterbridge.net/urfg/



13 Jan 2007 11:15:37
Adam H
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

You may find that after a couple of days really rough
> weather, you won't ever want to sail again!

Or you might never want to sail on a light day again!

A




13 Jan 2007 13:13:07
Quilljar
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Nick Temple-Fry wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:55:45 -0000, "Quilljar"
> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > The truth is that a boat is never large enough
>
> Well clipped.
>
> Nowadays a boat is often too large for the sailors( with their
> experience) to handle, so they motor instead of sail. Duck from
> marina to marina and pay large amounts (or spend large amounts of
> time) on maintenance. The yachting mags (and of course the
> manufacturers, nolonger alas boatyards) trade on this to sell their
> ever more country cottage like Barretts boats.
>
> Please encourage people to have the smallest boat that will meet their
> needs, not the largest they can mortgage themselves to afford.
>
> Sorry
>
> Short rant
>
> Nick.

That's OK you are allowed a rant or two. My experience is quite different.
I found that sailing a chartered 52 ft Benetau was much easier than my own
32ft Pentland. If I could have afforded it I wd certainly have gone for the
larger boat! I am not talking about solo sailing necessarily. My most
difficult boat was a 17 ft trailer sailor. It was a relief to upgrade.


--
Cheers,

Quilly






Sorry, but an individual reply goes into my spam filter




13 Jan 2007 10:33:59
Ian
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


The Caretaker wrote:

> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

It depends entirely in what you want to do, and you won't really know
that until you do it. I'd stringly advise you not to jump in to buying,
but spend a year or two getting different sorts of experience. Do you
want to be at sea or go places by boat? Do you want to stay in the boat
for extended periods, or use shore based accomodation as well? Do you
mind getting wet? Are you likely to make one or two long trips per
year, or more frequent shorter ones? Do you want always to sail from
the same place or start in different areas? Do you prefer marinas,
floating moorings or mud? Would you prefer the sociable congestion of
the Solent or the peaceful bleakness of the west of Scotland? Would you
prefer to sail with a crew or be self-sufficient?

I'd suggest getting yourself enough practical qualifications to
persuade people to charter things to you, then try chartering in
several different areas: Crinan, Lymington and Greece, say. Cadge rides
on other people boats, ask if you can look round when you meet friendly
people in harbours. After a couple of years you'll probably find you'll
know what and where you want to sail.

Incidentally, I'd support the comment about dinghy sailing up to a
point. Laser sailing isn't my thing at all, but I do like to have a
whizz round in a Wayfarer from time to time (I rent one at my local
sailing school) and I am doing up a Mirror. Dinghy sailing teaches you
to respond far quicker than you'll ever need to on a yacht, and it also
exaggerates the effects of everything, so you cram more learning into
an hour than you'll do in some days on a yacht. Converting dinghy - >
yacht is far harder than yacht - > dinghy.

Ian



13 Jan 2007 10:34:32
Ian
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


The Caretaker wrote:

> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

It depends entirely in what you want to do, and you won't really know
that until you do it. I'd stringly advise you not to jump in to buying,
but spend a year or two getting different sorts of experience. Do you
want to be at sea or go places by boat? Do you want to stay in the boat
for extended periods, or use shore based accomodation as well? Do you
mind getting wet? Are you likely to make one or two long trips per
year, or more frequent shorter ones? Do you want always to sail from
the same place or start in different areas? Do you prefer marinas,
floating moorings or mud? Would you prefer the sociable congestion of
the Solent or the peaceful bleakness of the west of Scotland? Would you
prefer to sail with a crew or be self-sufficient?

I'd suggest getting yourself enough practical qualifications to
persuade people to charter things to you, then try chartering in
several different areas: Crinan, Lymington and Greece, say. Cadge rides
on other people boats, ask if you can look round when you meet friendly
people in harbours. After a couple of years you'll probably find you'll
know what and where you want to sail.

Incidentally, I'd support the comment about dinghy sailing up to a
point. Laser sailing isn't my thing at all, but I do like to have a
whizz round in a Wayfarer from time to time (I rent one at my local
sailing school) and I am doing up a Mirror. Dinghy sailing teaches you
to respond far quicker than you'll ever need to on a yacht, and it also
exaggerates the effects of everything, so you cram more learning into
an hour than you'll do in some days on a yacht. Converting dinghy - >
yacht is far easier than yacht - > dinghy.

Ian



13 Jan 2007 10:40:08
Ian
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


The Caretaker wrote:

> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?

It depends entirely in what you want to do, and you won't really know
that until you do it. I'd stringly advise you not to jump in to buying,
but spend a year or two getting different sorts of experience. Do you
want to be at sea or go places by boat? Do you want to stay in the boat
for extended periods, or use shore based accomodation as well? Do you
mind getting wet? Are you likely to make one or two long trips per
year, or more frequent shorter ones? Do you want always to sail from
the same place or start in different areas? Do you prefer marinas,
floating moorings or mud? Would you prefer the sociable congestion of
the Solent or the peaceful bleakness of the west of Scotland? Would you
prefer to sail with a crew or be self-sufficient?

I'd suggest getting yourself enough practical qualifications to
persuade people to charter things to you, then try chartering in
several different areas: Crinan, Lymington and Greece, say. Cadge rides
on other people boats, ask if you can look round when you meet friendly
people in harbours. After a couple of years you'll probably find you'll
know what and where you want to sail.

Incidentally, I'd support the comment about dinghy sailing up to a
point. Laser sailing isn't my thing at all, but I do like to have a
whizz round in a Wayfarer from time to time (I rent one at my local
sailing school) and I am doing up a Mirror. Dinghy sailing teaches you
to respond far quicker than you'll ever need to on a yacht, and it also
exaggerates the effects of everything, so you cram more learning into
an hour than you'll do in some days on a yacht. Converting dinghy - >
yacht is far easier than yacht - > dinghy.

Ian



14 Jan 2007 15:31:52
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Enthusiasm is a fine thing, but it is all too easy to do too much too
soon. Despite the vast amount of good advice available on this forum &
elsewhere, only experience (both good & bad) will allow you to decide
what boat will suit you. A myriad of questions would need to be asked:
where will you cruise? Under what conditions? Who will be crewing (do
you need separate cabins)? How often will you be sailing? Is
performance or comfort the main priority? How much luxury do you
want/need? Can you put up with reduced headroom? What rig? Will you be
sailing single-handed? Do you get seasick easily (older, heavier boats
often have a kinder motion) ? Do you go for GRP, Wood, Steel hull ?
Where will you keep the boat? Will you be sailing/mooring in shoal
waters (where bilge keels are an advantage) ? The list goes on & on.
Also, when budgeting, bear in mind that buying the boat is only the
beginning of your chequebook's suffering. You will need to fork out on
fitting out (safety gear, repairs etc.), annual mooring charges,
hauling in and out, insurance, annual maintenance costs etc. etc.
These costs go up exponentially the larger the boat.

As a relative newcomer myself, I ended up buying a small weekend
cruiser after a couple of seasons crewing at a club on other people's
yachts: great way to learn to sail and experience different kinds of
craft. A smallish boat is great to learn on, cheap to keep, and
gives you the chance to make sure you really like the whole business.
Such a boat (say 20 to 24 foot) is also easy to sell on should you
decide to move up to something larger, or come to your senses and take
up skydiving instead. It also means that if you do buy a larger yacht
later, it will seem palatial!

Ned


15 Jan 2007 02:19:34
Tony Cook
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

The Caretaker wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Only ever been cruising on the Norfolk Broads (Hoseasons holidays) and
> in various small ribs and Jetskis, we now have a hankering to sail and
> to own and run a towable yacht. We have a Landrover Discovery so almost
> anything towable is feasible. There is also the near certainty that we
> will also have a decent mooring and land/chalet near Yarmouth sometime
> in 2008/9 that will allow something much larger.
>
> We're learning basic small dinghy sailing/handling/navigation at the
> (Holme Pierrepont) National Watersports centre and have really, really
> taken to it, despite horribly cold windy weather. Can't wait for the
> sun, to be honest.
>
> Anyroadup, real reason for the post is advice. We've come into some
> money, notalot, but enough we think to start us out. We have about 30k
> available to fully kit us out, that is buy a boat, trailer, gear,
> clothing etc etc and enough, we think, to follow to allow us to buy a
> bigger (better?) boat in a few years time when we know what we _really_
> want, and will by then have about 140k to spend.
>
> So what should we look at? Now and in a couple of years?
>
> We want something suitable for novices but which is possibly sailable
> across the channel, say, and round into the Med. Is even this, we think
> reasonable ambition, a little too ambitious perhaps? We are likely to
> retire (48 years old) next year so time-out for a voyage of this sort is
> not a worry. Obviously the boat needs to be large enough to live on for
> a few weeks at a time. We're used to caravans and tents and have no
> worries about small spaces and 'packing', more the general amenities and
> provision for cooking/living etc Eventually we think we might fancy a
> roving lifestyle and perhaps live on the boat. That may be a pipedream
> but we are, at this stage, serious about it.
>
> We want sail as we doubt there'd be anything in a motor boat that we
> could afford unless it was very second-hand, and like the idea of
> freedom from fuel taxes etc.
>
> We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
> any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
> suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
> first thing we see. :)
>
> Cheers.
>
While I, for once, find myself broadly in agreement with everything
others have already written I would like to add a few words of caution.

I note your requirement that you would envisage living aboard for "Some
weeks at a time". I personally would not like to recommend any trailer
sailor to you with the thought of it's functioning as a flat afloat.

Better I would have thought to go for something more suited for living
aboard from the outset.

While I actually enjoy sailing a boat that I tend to wear rather than
lounge around in I am aware that such masochism is not for everyone.

In your position and given your quoted background I would have a very
serious look at multi hulls.

Not I would suggest extreme performance boats nor necessarily modern
craft either.

Your budget should probably be sufficient for you to look at a "Heavenly
Twins" cat while an old "Iroquois" or similar would also offer true,
"Flat afloat" comfort

Personally and before any traditionalist jumps on me I'd add that I am a
mono hull sailor myself.

While it is possible to obtain a smaller cat, say a "Hirondelle"
possibly which might be towable, if you go to a 28 footer like the other
vessels mentioned the added comfort is more than noticeable.

Undoubtedly however the first and prime necessity is to really think
about what you want to do with your new boat because that will dictate
what she will need to be.

The second should be to work out just how much discomfort, dampness,
seasickness and sheer misery you can stand on the basis that the smaller
and more confining the boat the more these problems amass to long term.

Personally I am never happier afloat than when I am coming in to my
mooring and about to go ashore.

Beats me why I sail in the first place really since I gain no particular
pleasure in abusing myself ashore.

Tony Cook


15 Jan 2007 10:12:26
The Caretaker
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

The Caretaker wrote:

> We've not yet really researched what we want, properly, and are open to
> any and all reasonable suggestions, even down to possible purchase of a
> suitable vessel. We don't, however, aim to dive in head-first to the
> first thing we see. :)

Thanks for all the advice, it has helped immensely. We visited the Boat
Show too, and got a few leaflets and things but frankly we were a more
put off by it than enthused. Should have known, really, I feel the same
when I go to the Landrover shows too. :(

So, we've drawn up a plan of action, what do you good people think of it?

1. Carry on regularly sailing small dinghies at HP and more instruction
until we're much more adept.
2. Beg, blag, borrow crew places, outings, nights out etc on any yachts
we can. We have one weekend away arranged in the Solent with a friend.
3. Buy some waterproof 'yachting' clothing, gear etc for personal use
on said jaunts away, we currently just use normal, hiking etc, clothes
and waterproofs and can see a real benefit in the 'proper' stuff.
4. We've booked a sailing course and holiday on the Norfolk Broads in a
29ft cruiser [http://www.norfolksailingschool.co.uk/tradewind.htm]out
of season (bit cheaper) and a week after the course on our own.
5. We're umming and ahhing about booking a Flotilla holiday in Greece
until we come back from Norfolk. :)
6. Play it by ear and see what we like/dislike after Norfolk.

We think this will give us a clearer picture of what we want to do,
because when we sat down and discussed it frankly we could only really
come up with 'we fancy sailing, wandering the med and a bit of warm
weather freedom .......' And we love St Tropez area ... :) In essence
we don't really yet know what we want.


--
The Caretaker ........


15 Jan 2007 10:14:23
Quilljar
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better than the
Norfolk broads though. You will get better instruction I think, and also
have a more enjoyable time. Some years of experience on Broads and Canals
have convinced me that you have to be a masochist to enjoy them;or very
lucky indeed with the weather!
--
Quilly
'The government is banning calendars like there was no tomorrow'




15 Jan 2007 10:37:41
The Caretaker
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Quilljar wrote:
> An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better than the
> Norfolk broads though. You will get better instruction I think, and also
> have a more enjoyable time. Some years of experience on Broads and Canals
> have convinced me that you have to be a masochist to enjoy them;or very
> lucky indeed with the weather!

You're the second person, independantly, to tell us that, thanks.

We're looking on the broads as an introduction to larger boats, rather
than a full 'taster' and do understand that sailing in seas will be a
lot different to sailing relatively sheltered broads but want it as a
step-up before plunging in. :)

--
The Caretaker ........


15 Jan 2007 12:43:19
Ian Malcolm
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

The Caretaker wrote:
> Quilljar wrote:
>
>> An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better than
>> the Norfolk broads though. You will get better instruction I think,
>> and also have a more enjoyable time. Some years of experience on
>> Broads and Canals have convinced me that you have to be a masochist to
>> enjoy them;or very lucky indeed with the weather!
>
>
> You're the second person, independantly, to tell us that, thanks.
>
> We're looking on the broads as an introduction to larger boats, rather
> than a full 'taster' and do understand that sailing in seas will be a
> lot different to sailing relatively sheltered broads but want it as a
> step-up before plunging in. :)
>
Good choice of who to charter on the broads from. Nice boat too.

On the other hand, two weeks on the broads is more close quarters
manuvering and boat handling than most sailors do in a couple of
seasons. You are adding skills to your dinghy experience in the most
concentrated form possible.

Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat pointing
into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in any other
direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few inches (given
enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers are extremely
awkward or even possibly dangerous to approach without ferrygliding but
its NOT on the dayskipper syllabus.

As to the weather, We've always made sure we have a blue tarp and enough
cheap rope to rig a boom tent. Its far more comfortable once you've
moored in the rain if you can cover the cockpit, hang up your wet gear
to dry out there and have the washboards out for ventilation. A cheap
tarp, 6mm polyprop rope, and a roll of gaffer tape can easily be
purchaced at Lathams, Potter Heigham. (a couple of minutes walk from the
bridge) http://www.lathams-potter-heigham.co.uk/location.asp

You will also want to ask the yard for a quant and a pair of rond
anchors. (the quant lets you pole yourself off when, not if, you go
aground and also lets you pole into and out of *really* tight berthing
situations, and the rond anchors let you stop and moor places where
there aren't official bollards (though you need to use some common
sense, respect private and 'no mooring' signs and never moor on the
outside of a bent on any of the larger rivers unless you want to get run
down by a wherry, big cruiser or even a ship going up to Cantley. You
will need a mallet to knock them in with, bring your own or get one at
Lathams)

You will probably want to get a copy of Hamilton's Navigations as the
free 'chart' supplied with the boat isn't very good (fine for main
rivers, speed limits, official moorings etc. but *very* misleading as to
exactly which backwaters and smaller broads can be navigated in a yacht
without getting stuck - Hamilton's is the gold standard for broads
charts and guides, there is another guide but its more about the scenery
and less practical use.)

As to your future plans, experianced dinghy sailors who have done a
cople of weeks on the broads and a RYA shorebased course should only
need a minimal amount of instruction on a Med flotilla. Enjoy the warmth
and water worth swimming in and get as much sailing in as you can. In
the Med, you need a lot more ventilation to be comfortable at night and
tend to live in the cockpit during the day so a boat that is small but
perfectly practical for northern waters is often torture comparable to
the Black Hole of Calcutta in the Med. There's a *reason* why
everything seems to be over 30' there . . .

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.


15 Jan 2007 13:42:46
Graham Frankland
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

"Ian Malcolm" <valid.address.in.signature@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:eofssu$3gr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat pointing
> into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in any other
> direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few inches (given
> enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers are extremely awkward
> or even possibly dangerous to approach without ferrygliding but its NOT on
> the dayskipper syllabus.
>
Are you sure about the syllabus, I learned to ferry-glide on my Comp Crew
course, figure of 8's around and in between the mooring posts, astern as
well.

Graham.




15 Jan 2007 05:55:30
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
lot worse than this outfit.

http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html

They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
IMHO.



15 Jan 2007 14:12:06
Ian Malcolm
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Graham Frankland wrote:
> "Ian Malcolm" <valid.address.in.signature@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:eofssu$3gr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>
>>Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat pointing
>>into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in any other
>>direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few inches (given
>>enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers are extremely awkward
>>or even possibly dangerous to approach without ferrygliding but its NOT on
>>the dayskipper syllabus.
>>
>
> Are you sure about the syllabus, I learned to ferry-glide on my Comp Crew
> course, figure of 8's around and in between the mooring posts, astern as
> well.
>
> Graham.
>
>
Fairly sure. Most *good* instructors will teach it as standard as an
extra though. You must have had an enlightened instructor and probably
a coastal skipper or yachtmaster candidate onboard.

[grabs ISBN 0-901501-36-0 RYA 'Day Skipper Practical Sailing Course
Notes' from the bookshelf]
Tidal Stream is mentioned in a manouvering context on page 17 "Always
head into the tide when coming alongside, so it can act as a brake..."

There is a brief mention of crabbing accross the tide under sail on page
43 'Picking up a Mooring'. Generalising this to proper ferry-gliding
under power is not covered and IMHO unless the instructor encourages you
to stem the tide near a bouy or other mark then play with how the boat
responds to SMALL variations in heading or speed you'll not get it and
will be at a disadvantage in close quarters manuvering untill you are
shown it by a more enlightened instructor (formal or otherwise). Its
also important to understand when ferry-gliding will NOT work, e.g.
approaching a drifting object or no tide or current. Ferry-gliding
under sail is a more advanced technique that seems to be expected of
Coastal Skipper students.

The RYA have been updateing their syllabus so they *may* be teaching it
as standard now, but with their acceptance of electronic navigation,
there is more to cover than ever before so I suspect it does not get
much emphasis. I'd be *delighted* to be proved wrong . . . :-)

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.


15 Jan 2007 14:48:59
The Caretaker
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Ian Malcolm wrote:
> Graham Frankland wrote:
>> "Ian Malcolm" <valid.address.in.signature@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>> message news:eofssu$3gr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>
>>> Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat
>>> pointing into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in
>>> any other direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few
>>> inches (given enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers
>>> are extremely awkward or even possibly dangerous to approach without
>>> ferrygliding but its NOT on the dayskipper syllabus.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure about the syllabus, I learned to ferry-glide on my Comp
>> Crew course, figure of 8's around and in between the mooring posts,
>> astern as well.
>>
>> Graham.
>>
> Fairly sure. Most *good* instructors will teach it as standard as an
> extra though. You must have had an enlightened instructor and probably
> a coastal skipper or yachtmaster candidate onboard.
>
> [grabs ISBN 0-901501-36-0 RYA 'Day Skipper Practical Sailing Course
> Notes' from the bookshelf]
> Tidal Stream is mentioned in a manouvering context on page 17 "Always
> head into the tide when coming alongside, so it can act as a brake..."
>
> There is a brief mention of crabbing accross the tide under sail on page
> 43 'Picking up a Mooring'. Generalising this to proper ferry-gliding
> under power is not covered and IMHO unless the instructor encourages you
> to stem the tide near a bouy or other mark then play with how the boat
> responds to SMALL variations in heading or speed you'll not get it and
> will be at a disadvantage in close quarters manuvering untill you are
> shown it by a more enlightened instructor (formal or otherwise). Its
> also important to understand when ferry-gliding will NOT work, e.g.
> approaching a drifting object or no tide or current. Ferry-gliding
> under sail is a more advanced technique that seems to be expected of
> Coastal Skipper students.
>
> The RYA have been updateing their syllabus so they *may* be teaching it
> as standard now, but with their acceptance of electronic navigation,
> there is more to cover than ever before so I suspect it does not get
> much emphasis. I'd be *delighted* to be proved wrong . . . :-)
>

Cheers for this, Ian, and for your earlier reply.

As it happens what you're describing we've covered a little of in some
impromptu 'lessons' last year in a motor cruiser. AIUI you approach a
morring against whichever way the tide is running and allow the water
movement, rather than power, edge you into a mooring, or indeed turn you
round on a sixpence. :)

As I recall it's very delicate movements of the rudder, almost coaxing
the boat to turn into the flow to use the power of the flow. After
flying model aircraft for some considerable years I got the knack of
this quite easily. Aerodynamics is very very similar to hydrodynamics I
guess. :)

--
The Caretaker ........


15 Jan 2007 07:23:05
Tony of Judicious
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


toad wrote:
> A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
> lot worse than this outfit.
>
> http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
>
> They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
> tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
> IMHO.

and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant



15 Jan 2007 07:27:49
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Tony of Judicious wrote:
> toad wrote:
> > A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
> > lot worse than this outfit.
> >
> > http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
> >
> > They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
> > tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
> > IMHO.
>
> and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant

Of course, you'd be crazy to actually go there. It looks fine in the
pictures but a combination of freezing rain and midges makes for a poor
cruise. It's best that people stay well away.



15 Jan 2007 15:29:10
Nick Temple-Fry
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On 15 Jan 2007 07:23:05 -0800, "Tony of Judicious"
<tony@thoward.plus.com > wrote:

>
>toad wrote:
>> A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
>> lot worse than this outfit.
>>
>> http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
>>
>> They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
>> tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
>> IMHO.
>
>and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant


Surely elephants are vegetarians, evolution must have worked overtime
if the Scottish midges have so changed their habits in the 15 yrs or
so since I was last up there.


15 Jan 2007 08:56:04
Terry
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


Quilljar wrote:
> Personally I would never want to own a
> boat that rocks when I jump aboard! That means nothing under 32 ft!

Blimey - you mustnt have eaten as much as me at Christmas.

If I jump on a 40 footer it shouts "one at a time please!"



15 Jan 2007 18:03:22
Martin
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On 15 Jan 2007 08:56:04 -0800, "Terry" <terry.mcneill@sparrowsoffshore.com >
wrote:

>
>Quilljar wrote:
>> Personally I would never want to own a
>> boat that rocks when I jump aboard! That means nothing under 32 ft!
>
>Blimey - you mustnt have eaten as much as me at Christmas.
>
>If I jump on a 40 footer it shouts "one at a time please!"

Try jumping on two jags Pride of Hull.
--

Martin



15 Jan 2007 17:04:39
Ronald Raygun
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

toad wrote:

> Tony of Judicious wrote:
>> toad wrote:
>> > A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
>> > lot worse than this outfit.
>> >
>> > http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
>> >
>> > They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
>> > tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
>> > IMHO.
>>
>> and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant
>
> Of course, you'd be crazy to actually go there. It looks fine in the
> pictures but a combination of freezing rain and midges makes for a poor
> cruise. It's best that people stay well away.

Notice also that they carefully omit to mention anything about the numerous
incidents there have been of yachts mysteriously disappearing without trace.
The locals know fine well that Nessie is not impartial to a spot of
head-butting. This does tend to hole yachts, and then it's glug glug. The
loch is *very* deep and no-one will find you.



15 Jan 2007 09:08:47
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Ronald Raygun wrote:
> toad wrote:
>
> > Tony of Judicious wrote:
> >> toad wrote:
> >> > A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
> >> > lot worse than this outfit.
> >> >
> >> > http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
> >> >
> >> > They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
> >> > tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
> >> > IMHO.
> >>
> >> and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant
> >
> > Of course, you'd be crazy to actually go there. It looks fine in the
> > pictures but a combination of freezing rain and midges makes for a poor
> > cruise. It's best that people stay well away.
>
> Notice also that they carefully omit to mention anything about the numerous
> incidents there have been of yachts mysteriously disappearing without trace.
> The locals know fine well that Nessie is not impartial to a spot of
> head-butting. This does tend to hole yachts, and then it's glug glug. The
> loch is *very* deep and no-one will find you.

The Brownie Of Cara doesn't like English visiors. Take it from me, an
English visitor.



15 Jan 2007 18:32:58
Martin
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On Mon, 15 Jan 2007 17:04:39 GMT, Ronald Raygun <no.spam@localhost.localdomain >
wrote:

>toad wrote:
>
>> Tony of Judicious wrote:
>>> toad wrote:
>>> > A dinghy sailor looking for big boat trip in great scenery could do a
>>> > lot worse than this outfit.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.westhighlandsailing.com/sailing-yachts.html
>>> >
>>> > They'll expect you to be able to sail but there is no chartwork and no
>>> > tides to worry about and scenery as good as almost anywhere in the UK
>>> > IMHO.
>>>
>>> and midges the size of bumble bees with the appetite of an elephant
>>
>> Of course, you'd be crazy to actually go there. It looks fine in the
>> pictures but a combination of freezing rain and midges makes for a poor
>> cruise. It's best that people stay well away.
>
>Notice also that they carefully omit to mention anything about the numerous
>incidents there have been of yachts mysteriously disappearing without trace.
>The locals know fine well that Nessie is not impartial to a spot of
>head-butting. This does tend to hole yachts, and then it's glug glug. The
>loch is *very* deep and no-one will find you.

I can't imagine anybody looking for him.

Remember Dan?
--

Martin



15 Jan 2007 17:33:52
Graham Frankland
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

"Ian Malcolm" <valid.address.in.signature@invalid.invalid > wrote in message
news:eog23d$sds$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Graham Frankland wrote:
>> "Ian Malcolm" <valid.address.in.signature@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>> message news:eofssu$3gr$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>
>>>Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat pointing
>>>into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in any other
>>>direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few inches (given
>>>enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers are extremely
>>>awkward or even possibly dangerous to approach without ferrygliding but
>>>its NOT on the dayskipper syllabus.
>>>
>>
>> Are you sure about the syllabus, I learned to ferry-glide on my Comp Crew
>> course, figure of 8's around and in between the mooring posts, astern as
>> well.
>>
>> Graham.
> Fairly sure. Most *good* instructors will teach it as standard as an extra
> though. You must have had an enlightened instructor and probably a
> coastal skipper or yachtmaster candidate onboard.
>
I was the only one doing Comp Crew, the others were doing Day Skipper and
Coastal so, I got to learn from everyone. Excellent instructor as well, did
all my practical courses with him.

Graham.




15 Jan 2007 21:20:17
TonyB
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

> >>> Make sure the instructor teaches you about ferry-gliding (boat
> >>> pointing into the tide or current can be moved sideways or indeed in
> >>> any other direction in perfect control with accuracy down to a few
> >>> inches (given enough practice)) Many moorings on the lower rivers
> >>> are extremely awkward or even possibly dangerous to approach without
> >>> ferrygliding but its NOT on the dayskipper syllabus.


The early hire boats didn't have motors, some still don't and some have only
a half horsepower
motor. The correct way to approach Great Yarmouth apparently is to turn
against the tide and drag your mudweight over the bows. This slows the boat
enough to allow the glide into the mooring - backwards.

Yup, you can learn a lot on the broads! I reccomend The Art of Coarse
Sailing by Michael Green,
hilarious and every word probably true.

TonyB




15 Jan 2007 21:22:44
TonyB
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

'Course, the toughest bit of your plan, Caretaker, would be the sail from UK
to the Med.
Tides and busy waterways combined with long passages could be difficult - I
wouldn't want to do it.
I'd consider coast-hopping so I could moor up somewhere every night, but
nightsailing in the channel
freaks me out a bit. Any comments from someone who has actually done it?
TonyB




15 Jan 2007 22:17:33
Keith
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In message <r-2dnftsmeqcyTbYRVnygQA@bt.com >, Quilljar
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk > writes
>An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better than the
>Norfolk broads though.

I agree. The couple who flotilla'd for the first time in May in Greece
along with my chum and I met up with us at the Show last week - never
even sailed a dinghy before, yet handled a Feeling with Sailing Holidays
after an hour with the lead skipper and booked up again for the same two
weeks this year.

( Sandra had us in fits of laughter questioning the 'man's thing' about
unblocking the heads, chuckling raucously over the attendant noises and
discussing in minute detail what she'd eaten the previous day ... )

--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


15 Jan 2007 23:35:15
Graham Frankland
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

"TonyB" <Norfolk@soxclara.co.uk > wrote in message
news:TMOdnYqbvOMDcjbYRVnyhgA@bt.com...
> 'Course, the toughest bit of your plan, Caretaker, would be the sail from
> UK
> to the Med.
> Tides and busy waterways combined with long passages could be difficult -
> I
> wouldn't want to do it.
> I'd consider coast-hopping so I could moor up somewhere every night, but
> nightsailing in the channel
> freaks me out a bit. Any comments from someone who has actually done it?
> TonyB
>
Done the Channel quite a few times, all but one at the widest point Lands
End or Penzance to Chanel du Four, sometimes in thick fog all the way. Pick
your weather right and it's a mill pond without even enough wind to sail.
Go by a shorter route and there's no need to be out in the dark. Believe it
or not, it's often easier to see big ships and judge their course by their
lights at night, than in hazy high pressure daytime.

Once across to Camaret, day hops are easy all the way to La Rochelle with
some magic places to visit and mostly good weather. La Rochelle to Gijon is
only about 40 hrs (at 6 kts) and we wound up motoring virually all the way
this year in slight seas. From Gijon, you can day sail all the way to the
med.

There's a load of crap talked about the French west coast and BISCAY!!!!!
We've spent literally months there over the past few years (did Conwy to the
Algarve this year) and the weather and sea conditions are far better on
average in Biscayu than the Irish Sea, with tides there generally under
2kts. Only rule is don't go near the continental shelf when there is bad
weather to the west, it shelves from over 4000m to 150m in a few miles so
you can guess what the seas can be like when those big rollers come in.

Graham.




16 Jan 2007 09:10:45
Quilljar
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Keith wrote:
> In message <r-2dnftsmeqcyTbYRVnygQA@bt.com>, Quilljar
> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> > An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better
> > than the Norfolk broads though.
>
> I agree. The couple who flotilla'd for the first time in May in Greece
> along with my chum and I met up with us at the Show last week - never
> even sailed a dinghy before, yet handled a Feeling with Sailing
> Holidays after an hour with the lead skipper and booked up again for
> the same two weeks this year.
>
> ( Sandra had us in fits of laughter questioning the 'man's thing'
> about unblocking the heads, chuckling raucously over the attendant
> noises and discussing in minute detail what she'd eaten the previous
> day ... )



Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we sold
ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.

--
Quilly
'The government is banning calendars like there was no tomorrow'




16 Jan 2007 01:23:00
PyroJames
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


TonyB wrote:

> 'Course, the toughest bit of your plan, Caretaker, would be the sail from UK
> to the Med.
> Tides and busy waterways combined with long passages could be difficult - I
> wouldn't want to do it.
> I'd consider coast-hopping so I could moor up somewhere every night, but
> nightsailing in the channel
> freaks me out a bit. Any comments from someone who has actually done it?

Done it the other wat round. Med to UK. Left Gib in August arrived
Flamouth mid September. Coast hopped Gib to Muros, then one hit across
Biscay. Uncomfortable across Biscay for a couple of days, but OK
otherwise, and it wasn't the best time for the weather!

PyroJames



16 Jan 2007 09:33:42
Paul - xxx
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Quilljar <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk > typed:
> Keith wrote:
>> In message <r-2dnftsmeqcyTbYRVnygQA@bt.com>, Quilljar
>> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> An excellent set of plans. The Flotilla in Greece is much better
>>> than the Norfolk broads though.
>>
>> I agree. The couple who flotilla'd for the first time in May in
>> Greece along with my chum and I met up with us at the Show last week
>> - never even sailed a dinghy before, yet handled a Feeling with
>> Sailing Holidays after an hour with the lead skipper and booked up
>> again for the same two weeks this year.
>>
>> ( Sandra had us in fits of laughter questioning the 'man's thing'
>> about unblocking the heads, chuckling raucously over the attendant
>> noises and discussing in minute detail what she'd eaten the previous
>> day ... )
>
>
>
> Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then
> bareboating in Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning
> a boat. Since we sold ours ten years ago that is what we have done.
> Result, good weather, bigger boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000
> per year better off.

Heheheheh, put like that it certainly has some attractions .......

--
Paul - xxx




22 Jan 2007 06:07:26
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Quilljar wrote:

> Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
> Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we s=
old
> ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
> boats, no hassle, no marina fees, =A34000 per year better off.

Very true.

If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.

There are exceptions of course.



22 Jan 2007 15:48:59
Duncan Heenan
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
Quilljar wrote:

> Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
> Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
> sold
> ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
> boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.

Very true.

If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.

Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
Oh well, too late now





22 Jan 2007 07:56:55
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Duncan Heenan wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> Quilljar wrote:
>
> > Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating=
in
> > Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
> > sold
> > ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, big=
ger
> > boats, no hassle, no marina fees, =A34000 per year better off.
>>
>> Very true.
>>
>> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>>
> Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
> Oh well, too late now

Divorce?



22 Jan 2007 16:15:09
Duncan Heenan
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk > wrote in message
news:1169481415.913839.175440@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
Duncan Heenan wrote:
> "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> Quilljar wrote:
>
> > Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating
> > in
> > Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
> > sold
> > ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather,
> > bigger
> > boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.
>>
>> Very true.
>>
>> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>>
> Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
> Oh well, too late now

Divorce?

Even more expensive!
As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
sheds tio escape to.
As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
for them.





22 Jan 2007 17:25:51
Martin
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:15:09 -0000, "Duncan Heenan"
<pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk > wrote:

>
>"toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1169481415.913839.175440@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
>Duncan Heenan wrote:
>> "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>> Quilljar wrote:
>>
>> > Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating
>> > in
>> > Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
>> > sold
>> > ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather,
>> > bigger
>> > boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.
>>>
>>> Very true.
>>>
>>> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>>>
>> Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
>> Oh well, too late now
>
>Divorce?
>
>Even more expensive!
>As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
>sheds tio escape to.

I'll have the shame ash you are sschlurping.

>As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
>for them.

He is a control freak?
--

Martin



22 Jan 2007 08:32:10
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Duncan Heenan wrote:

> As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
> for them.

He's a trainee suicide bomber?



22 Jan 2007 09:05:43
PyroJames
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


Duncan Heenan wrote:

> "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1169481415.913839.175440@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
> Duncan Heenan wrote:
> > "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> > Quilljar wrote:
> >> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
> >>
> > Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
> > Oh well, too late now
>
> Divorce?
>
> Even more expensive!
> As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
> sheds tio escape to.

Mine doubles as both at the moment as it is in the local farmers grain
store while I work on it! I can escape to it for the evening, and not
have to worry about marina fees or it sitting out in the weather. :0

PyroJames



22 Jan 2007 20:23:50
Keith
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In message <45b4e302$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com >, Duncan Heenan
<pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk > writes
>
>Even more expensive!
>As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
>sheds tio escape to.
>As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
>for them.
>
(Can someone please translate this for me? My ginspeak does not
compute..)
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


23 Jan 2007 13:47:01
Duncan McC (NZ)
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In article <1169481415.913839.175440@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com >,
toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk says...
> Duncan Heenan wrote:
> > "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
> > Quilljar wrote:
> >
> > > Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
> > > Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
> > > sold
> > > ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
> > > boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.
> >>
> >> Very true.
> >>
> >> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
> >>
> > Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
> > Oh well, too late now
>
> Divorce?

Ah, yes, divorce, from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's
genitals through his wallet - Robin Williams.

--
Duncan


23 Jan 2007 11:51:29
Martin
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 13:47:01 +1300, Duncan McC (NZ) <hard@work.ok > wrote:

>In article <1169481415.913839.175440@51g2000cwl.googlegroups.com>,
>toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk says...
>> Duncan Heenan wrote:
>> > "toad" <toad_oftoadhall@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:1169474846.220776.228620@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com...
>> > Quilljar wrote:
>> >
>> > > Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
>> > > Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
>> > > sold
>> > > ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
>> > > boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.
>> >>
>> >> Very true.
>> >>
>> >> If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>> >>
>> > Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
>> > Oh well, too late now
>>
>> Divorce?
>
>Ah, yes, divorce, from the Latin word meaning to rip out a man's
>genitals through his wallet - Robin Williams.

The Beatle, soon to be, ex-wife is rumoured to be receiving GBP1000 for every
hour their marriage. Think of the boat and the tarts in every port he could
have had for that.
--

Martin



23 Jan 2007 14:25:48
Duncan Heenan
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


"Keith" <keith@nospam.demon.co.uk > wrote in message
news:kIHM7VIW1RtFFwyx@ilf0rd.demon.co.uk...
> In message <45b4e302$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Duncan Heenan
> <pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> writes
>>
>>Even more expensive!
>>As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
>>sheds tio escape to.
>>As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
>>for them.
>>
> (Can someone please translate this for me? My ginspeak does not compute..)
> --
> Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd

Shorrie, I wash pished won I rited it.




23 Jan 2007 19:05:36
Keith
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

In message <45b61ae1$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com >, Duncan Heenan
<pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk > writes
>
>"Keith" <keith@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:kIHM7VIW1RtFFwyx@ilf0rd.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <45b4e302$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, Duncan Heenan
>> <pleasenospammersduncanheenan@tiscali.co.uk> writes
>>>
>>>Even more expensive!
>>>As for boats, well though they're expensive they're more fin that garden
>>>sheds tio escape to.
>>>As for aeroplanes, my son found the answer - people pay him to fly theirs
>>>for them.
>>>
>> (Can someone please translate this for me? My ginspeak does not compute..)
>> --
>> Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd
>
>Shorrie, I wash pished won I rited it.
>
<g >
--
Keith replace nospam with ilf0rd


24 Jan 2007 21:35:17
TonyB
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


> Come to think of it, I would suggest that flotilla and then bareboating in
> Greece is more fun and a good deal cheaper than owning a boat. Since we
sold
> ours ten years ago that is what we have done. Result, good weather, bigger
> boats, no hassle, no marina fees, 4000 per year better off.

Very true.


It may be true but you can sail your own boat whenever you like, other
factors permitting. I
get about 15 trips on mine every year but it's hardly worth going to the Med
just for a weekend.
I have found the even more expensive solution of doing both Med holidays and
owning a boat!
TonyB




25 Jan 2007 19:24:23
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


>
>If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>
>Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
>Oh well, too late now
>
>
How about if it floats, flies AND fucks ???


25 Jan 2007 21:26:03
Floatything
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??


<mach@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:lt0ir2ppr3t3ot7qmkdspohf1mv2l08a0e@4ax.com...
>
>>
>>If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>>
>>Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
>>Oh well, too late now
>>
>>
> How about if it floats, flies AND fucks ???

..you're better off cooking it - its a duck.


Floatything




26 Jan 2007 13:53:58
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

Beak for yourself!


On Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:26:03 GMT, "Floatything" <dont
reply@ntlworld.com > wrote:

>
><mach@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:lt0ir2ppr3t3ot7qmkdspohf1mv2l08a0e@4ax.com...
>>
>>>
>>>If it floats, flies, or fucks you're better off hiring it.
>>>
>>>Bugger!.............I wish I'd known that a long time ago.
>>>Oh well, too late now
>>>
>>>
>> How about if it floats, flies AND fucks ???
>
>..you're better off cooking it - its a duck.
>
>
>Floatything
>


26 Jan 2007 06:18:51
toad
Re: Boating newbie .... advice ??

On 26 Jan, 13:53, m...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> How about if it floats, flies AND fucks ???
>
> >..you're better off cooking it - its a duck.

> Beak for yourself!

It was a fairly poultry joke.