28 Jun 2004 21:49:31
Sten Larsson
scary fast

I was up at San Luis Reservoir this weekend, and it was cranking
Saturday afternoon.

I experienced something new... I was WAY POWERED on my 6.5 Retro and
105 liter freeride board. But the water was flat, and the rig felt
light... but it was SCARY FAST. I could not control the board at
"full" speed.

So my question is, what caused this? I have not ridden flat water with
this board before, but my old 1997 278 F2 Axxis didn't behave like
this. I have two explanations.

1. The footstraps are more inward than the old Axxis, which prevents
me from controlling the edge of the board. (I had them as close to the
edge as I possible.)

2. The increased width in the tail of the newer boards.

What do you think? How can I deal with this next time?

The board is a 2001 Maui Project Style large. Fin was Finworks 12.5
Wave Blade.

Thanks!
/sten


29 Jun 2004 01:36:10
Charles Jutkins
Re: scary fast

Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
Were you having any trouble with weeds?
What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
the weeds.
You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .
"Sten Larsson" <sten_larsson@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:b2cf8ba.0406282049.4712973@posting.google.com...
> I was up at San Luis Reservoir this weekend, and it was cranking
> Saturday afternoon.
>
> I experienced something new... I was WAY POWERED on my 6.5 Retro and
> 105 liter freeride board. But the water was flat, and the rig felt
> light... but it was SCARY FAST. I could not control the board at
> "full" speed.
>
> So my question is, what caused this? I have not ridden flat water with
> this board before, but my old 1997 278 F2 Axxis didn't behave like
> this. I have two explanations.
>
> 1. The footstraps are more inward than the old Axxis, which prevents
> me from controlling the edge of the board. (I had them as close to the
> edge as I possible.)
>
> 2. The increased width in the tail of the newer boards.
>
> What do you think? How can I deal with this next time?
>
> The board is a 2001 Maui Project Style large. Fin was Finworks 12.5
> Wave Blade.
>
> Thanks!
> /sten




29 Jun 2004 10:29:11
Sten Larsson
Re: scary fast

"Charles Jutkins" <ctuna@surfnetusa.com > wrote:

> Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
> Were you having any trouble with weeds?
> What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
> the weeds.
> You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .

No the MP Style (2001) is more a free-ride board.

I forgot - I did switch from my normal fin to a weed fin. Maybe that
is the explanation.

> What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
> the weeds.

Out of control - the direction of the board was not steady. I'm not
sure how to describe it - maybe the board "wobbled"? BTW, I was using
a seat harness.

Thanks!
/sten


29 Jun 2004 21:38:32
jeff feehan
Re: scary fast

the style boards are not really designed to go fast.

in particular, they lack directional stability - on purpose.

the very characteristics that make a board comfortable
and controlable at speed would make it hard to do tricks on.
the style is designed for tricks involving frequent direction changes.
directional stability would be a hinderance.

caveat - my recent experience is with the newer style boards. i have
ridden the older ones, but i don't remeber them as well.
additionally, i am not a freestyle sailor, so i really don't know
what to do with these boards.

jeff feehan

Sten Larsson wrote:

> "Charles Jutkins" <ctuna@surfnetusa.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
>>Were you having any trouble with weeds?
>>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
>>the weeds.
>>You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .
>
>
> No the MP Style (2001) is more a free-ride board.
>
> I forgot - I did switch from my normal fin to a weed fin. Maybe that
> is the explanation.
>
>
>>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
>>the weeds.
>
>
> Out of control - the direction of the board was not steady. I'm not
> sure how to describe it - maybe the board "wobbled"? BTW, I was using
> a seat harness.
>
> Thanks!
> /sten


30 Jun 2004 01:16:49
Charles Jutkins
Re: scary fast

A seat harness might cause you to overpressure the fin if your lines are
long and you are real hiked out . you can't pressure a weed fin as much as a
regular fin . I was up there a week before you and the weeds were already
thick enough to require a weed fin I would occasionally spin out even with
that. Also the weed fin feels more vague in terms of pressure. I have got to
say the Style is a freestyle design why do you think they call it Style and
it has the inboard set of straps.
"jeff feehan" <jfeehan@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:sjlEc.19466$bs4.7985@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> the style boards are not really designed to go fast.
>
> in particular, they lack directional stability - on purpose.
>
> the very characteristics that make a board comfortable
> and controlable at speed would make it hard to do tricks on.
> the style is designed for tricks involving frequent direction changes.
> directional stability would be a hinderance.
>
> caveat - my recent experience is with the newer style boards. i have
> ridden the older ones, but i don't remeber them as well.
> additionally, i am not a freestyle sailor, so i really don't know
> what to do with these boards.
>
> jeff feehan
>
> Sten Larsson wrote:
>
> > "Charles Jutkins" <ctuna@surfnetusa.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
> >>Were you having any trouble with weeds?
> >>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was
probably
> >>the weeds.
> >>You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .
> >
> >
> > No the MP Style (2001) is more a free-ride board.
> >
> > I forgot - I did switch from my normal fin to a weed fin. Maybe that
> > is the explanation.
> >
> >
> >>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was
probably
> >>the weeds.
> >
> >
> > Out of control - the direction of the board was not steady. I'm not
> > sure how to describe it - maybe the board "wobbled"? BTW, I was using
> > a seat harness.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > /sten




30 Jun 2004 11:12:30
Stu Snodgrass
Re: scary fast

jeff feehan <jfeehan@ix.netcom.com > wrote in message news:<sjlEc.19466$bs4.7985@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> the style boards are not really designed to go fast.
>
> in particular, they lack directional stability - on purpose.
>
> the very characteristics that make a board comfortable
> and controlable at speed would make it hard to do tricks on.
> the style is designed for tricks involving frequent direction changes.
> directional stability would be a hinderance.
>
I disagree. Freestyle boards are very turny but they don't have to
lack directional stability. Take my Skate 112, it is loose but
control is not a problem. I sailed it last year for 2 days in about
35 kts with a 4.7 (I forgot to bring my small board and the 4.0) and
no tailwalks or out of control moments.

I think that Steve's problem is more a mental thing than an equipment
problem. Assuming that this new board is more lively, all he needs to
do is to sheet in and keep up the pressure on the mast foot. I have
never seen a board which couldn't be sailed fast on flat water because
of lack of directional control. Yea, if you sheet out, the nose
comes up and the board explodes under you. As they say in one of the
old videos, going fast requires a mental adjustment rather than an
increase in skill level. I think that Steve just needs to get some
time on the water on this new board and he will have no problems. If
he is like I am, after he adjusts, he will find those unlively boards
to be boring. I like the feeling of being in full control, but still
having the perception that you are close to the edge of control.


> caveat - my recent experience is with the newer style boards. i have
> ridden the older ones, but i don't remeber them as well.
> additionally, i am not a freestyle sailor, so i really don't know
> what to do with these boards.
>
> jeff feehan
>
> Sten Larsson wrote:
>
> > "Charles Jutkins" <ctuna@surfnetusa.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
> >>Were you having any trouble with weeds?
> >>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
> >>the weeds.
> >>You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .
> >
> >
> > No the MP Style (2001) is more a free-ride board.
> >
> > I forgot - I did switch from my normal fin to a weed fin. Maybe that
> > is the explanation.
> >
> >
> >>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was probably
> >>the weeds.
> >
> >
> > Out of control - the direction of the board was not steady. I'm not
> > sure how to describe it - maybe the board "wobbled"? BTW, I was using
> > a seat harness.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > /sten


01 Jul 2004 08:03:10
WARDOG
Re: scary fast



Charles Jutkins wrote:

> you can't pressure a weed fin as much as a
> regular fin . . . . Also the weed fin feels more vague in terms of pressure. I have got to
> say the Style is a freestyle design why do you think they call it Style and
> it has the inboard set of straps.

That's true of traditional weedfins because of their chord length...the
CLR (Center of Lateral Resistance) is located far enough away from the
base of the fin, to place it off the tail of board...reducing feedback
and/or "feel"...also, they were designed to go in a straight line...

UNTIL NOW...
10" FreeWeed:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_tuttle.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_powerbox.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_bases.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/exocet_105_freeweed_10.jpg

Comparison to traditional weedfins:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/freeweed_compare1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/freeweed_compare3.jpg

12" FreeWeed on the Carve 121 and Carve 131:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/C131_WeedWave.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_rigs2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_rigs3.jpg

Carve/FreeWeed action:
Try a flatwater loop on a conventional weedfin...;-)

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_brian_loopsetup.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_brian_loop1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_brian_loop2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will_laydown.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will_jibe1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/lopez_will_jibe2.jpg

The WD FreeWeed is designed, and has been proven to "feel" like a
"normal" fin...that is one of the biggest compliments a weedfin can
get...and we've gotten many testimonials from sailors who are using this
fin as their chosen fin, even though there are no weeds where they
sail...you can load this puppy up, without it washing out...wide base
with progressive twist...just like your sail...

So...if you want to kill the performance and turnability of a FreeRide,
FreeStyle, FreeMove, or FreeWave type board, and just want to go faster
in a straight line, then by all means, use whatever traditional, bladey
weedfin you can get...you know the type...Somesuchweed...Whateverweed...:-)

We sell them, of course...
http://www.surfingsports.com/trueames.asp
because, they are necessary if you have a FW, race, or slalom board that
likes to go fast upwind, in weedy areas...
Chuck Ames (True Ames Fins), who lives here in Santa Barbara, has
developed some of the very best weedfins in the world, being used by
sailors all over the world...we have 4 models in many sizing options...

Formula or Shallow H20 Weed:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/ta_formula_weed.jpg
http://www.trueames.com/shallowwaterweed.htm

Santa Barbara Weed: 40 rake
http://www.trueames.com/sbweed.htm

Blade Weed: 45 rake
http://www.trueames.com/bladeweed.htm

Weed Extreme: 47
http://www.trueames.com/weedextreme.htm

WARDOG
http://www.surfingsports.com


> A seat harness might cause you to overpressure the fin if your lines are
> long and you are real hiked out . you can't pressure a weed fin as much as a
> regular fin . I was up there a week before you and the weeds were already
> thick enough to require a weed fin I would occasionally spin out even with
> that. Also the weed fin feels more vague in terms of pressure. I have got to
> say the Style is a freestyle design why do you think they call it Style and
> it has the inboard set of straps.
> "jeff feehan" <jfeehan@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:sjlEc.19466$bs4.7985@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>>the style boards are not really designed to go fast.
>>
>>in particular, they lack directional stability - on purpose.
>>
>>the very characteristics that make a board comfortable
>>and controlable at speed would make it hard to do tricks on.
>>the style is designed for tricks involving frequent direction changes.
>>directional stability would be a hinderance.
>>
>>caveat - my recent experience is with the newer style boards. i have
>>ridden the older ones, but i don't remeber them as well.
>>additionally, i am not a freestyle sailor, so i really don't know
>>what to do with these boards.
>>
>>jeff feehan
>>
>>Sten Larsson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Charles Jutkins" <ctuna@surfnetusa.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Maui Projects are wave or freestyle boards.
>>>>Were you having any trouble with weeds?
>>>>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was
>
> probably
>
>>>>the weeds.
>>>>You need a weed fin to stop spinout this time of year at San Luis .
>>>
>>>
>>>No the MP Style (2001) is more a free-ride board.
>>>
>>>I forgot - I did switch from my normal fin to a weed fin. Maybe that
>>>is the explanation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What do you mean by not control do you mean spinout If so it was
>
> probably
>
>>>>the weeds.
>>>
>>>
>>>Out of control - the direction of the board was not steady. I'm not
>>>sure how to describe it - maybe the board "wobbled"? BTW, I was using
>>>a seat harness.
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>/sten
>
>
>