22 Jun 2007 21:38:36
(PeteCresswell)
Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

Anybody had a chance to A/B these two sails?

I've got the Infinity. Nice sail, but I find myself running
camless more and more on all four of my Infinities.

So far, it sounds like the FreeRides have a little more power per
given sail area - having done away with some of the floppy leach
up top.

Also, it sounds like they use a *lot* less downhaul and
significantly (in the words of one person "enough to make my
hands sore and need a foot on the boom...") more outhaul.

Can anybody elucidate?

Tunability? Range? Controllability in gusts?
--
PeteCresswell


23 Jun 2007 08:30:16
Glenn Woodell
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

Hey Pete,

The big difference between the Infinity and the Freeride will be the
higher foot. Otherwise, the Infinity is a wonderful sail.

I am not convinced that the Freerides have any more power than the
Infinities for 2007. Both have a greatly increased draft. The floppy
leech is reduced but not completely and the downhaul difference is not
as much as you think. They use about the same amount of outhaul as
before, probably more than most people use already since they've
always likde more than other brands.

What year(s) are your Infinities and what sizes?

Have you tried running just the bottom cam? If you haven't you really
should do so. You will never feel it there so it will feel completely
camless yet you will have a noticible increase in range on the top
end.

With the single cam you will have much better control in gusts. Your
tuning will be almost completely with the outhaul. If your Infinities
are 2006 and older then I suggest rigging with medium DH and just
leving it there unless you are in WAY overpowering conditions and just
don't want to rig down. For moderately overpowering conditions, leave
the DH alone and simply add OH until your linea are balanced again.

The additional OH will make the sail noticibly easier to control. You
may find that you like this extra OH setting. It really locks the
draft in place and I don't mean by measureable amounts but very
noticibly.

Tuned correctly, the Infinities really are wonderful sails. They are
not the stump pulling sails that the Retros seem to be. They take a
little bit of wind to make them go but you can hang on to them in a
lot of wind and really enjoy the ride. You may find yourself sailing
with a lot lighter touch on the boom when you get that extra OH on it.

All of this is true with the SE Waves as well. They don't need a whole
lot of DH. Just use the markings on the sail and make sure you have
plenty of OH. Assuming your lines are in the proper place, add OH as
the winds come up to keep them balanced. For a given size sail,
Infinity or SE Wave, you should NEVER have to move your harness lines.
You should only need to keep them balanced with the OH.

Like Roger loves his Retros, I love my Infinitie and SE Waves. I've
been sailng them since 2001.

Glenn

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 21:38:36 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid >
wrote:

>Anybody had a chance to A/B these two sails?
>
>I've got the Infinity. Nice sail, but I find myself running
>camless more and more on all four of my Infinities.
>
>So far, it sounds like the FreeRides have a little more power per
>given sail area - having done away with some of the floppy leach
>up top.
>
>Also, it sounds like they use a *lot* less downhaul and
>significantly (in the words of one person "enough to make my
>hands sore and need a foot on the boom...") more outhaul.
>
>Can anybody elucidate?
>
>Tunability? Range? Controllability in gusts?



23 Jun 2007 09:52:06
(PeteCresswell)
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

Per Glenn Woodell:
>What year(s) are your Infinities and what sizes?

Two have the older split black inducers and two have the new
orange one-piece inducers. I think the 7.5 is last years and
the 6.0 is a 2005 - if that's possible...


>Have you tried running just the bottom cam?

Yes been doing that for quite awhile and like it.

But I really like the way a camless sail blades out through the
turns.

> For a given size sail,
>Infinity or SE Wave, you should NEVER have to move your harness lines.
>You should only need to keep them balanced with the OH.

I have a little ring of electrical tape around each boom -
halfway between the two harness lines. Even when moving from
sail-to-sail, I don't find the harness lines have to be moved
much - if any... and I suspect what movements I do make are from
differences in tuning the sails bc sometimes with the 6.6 I find
myself moving them from sesh-to-sesh.


Have you had an opportunity to sail an Infinity back-to-back with
a FreeRide of similar size?

Given your comment on the power aspect, I'd pose another
question: how does the power of a camless Infinity compare to the
power of a fully-cammed Infinity? I posed this to someone a
long time ago and their feeling was 10% diff max.
--
PeteCresswell


23 Jun 2007 08:53:30
wind.sh@dow
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:30:16 -0400, Glenn Woodell <letsrig@cox.net >
wrote:

>The big difference between the Infinity and the Freeride will be the
>higher foot. Otherwise, the Infinity is a wonderful sail.

Glenn, which sail has the higher foot?


23 Jun 2007 14:23:05
grayson
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

On Jun 23, 9:53 am, "wind.sh@dow" <just lurking > wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 08:30:16 -0400, Glenn Woodell <lets...@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
> >The big difference between the Infinity and the Freeride will be the
> >higher foot. Otherwise, the Infinity is a wonderful sail.
>
> Glenn, which sail has the higher foot?

wind.sh@dow: the freeride has the higher foot.

glenn: thanks for the detailed comments on the ezzy sails.

pete: i've been sailing 2003-ish infinities and se waves for the past
4 years or so and love 'em. i agree with glenn that they tune quite
well with outhaul, and combined with an adjustable outhaul it's a huge
benefit for tune-on-the-fly. but i do tune the downhaul too. not by
huge amounts, but the infinity seems to respond pretty well to small
changes in downhaul. if i end up having to move my harness lines it
usually means i've gone too far in one direction or the other with
downhaul setting, and it shows in the sail's performance. i've always
sailed 'em with the cams in, but based on your comments and glenn's i
might have to try camless one of these days, or perhaps bottom cam
only. i'll definitely be looking to demo the new freeride if possible
when i'm out in the gorge a month from now too. if i get a chance to
actually do a/b testing between infinity and freeride then i'll
definitely post back with comments.



23 Jun 2007 10:54:10
wind.sh@dow
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:23:05 -0000, grayson <grayson.king@gmail.com >
wrote:

>
>wind.sh@dow: the freeride has the higher foot.

Thanks, makes sense. On a smaller sail, I am less likely to want cams
more likely to want a high foot.


24 Jun 2007 00:55:24
Glenn Woodell
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 09:52:06 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid >
wrote:

>Have you had an opportunity to sail an Infinity back-to-back with
>a FreeRide of similar size?

No. I have only seen a Freeride and never sailed one.

>Given your comment on the power aspect, I'd pose another
>question: how does the power of a camless Infinity compare to the
>power of a fully-cammed Infinity? I posed this to someone a
>long time ago and their feeling was 10% diff max.

I don't remember any extra power with the cams nor would I expect
there to be any, If there is enough wind to get you planing then there
is enough wind to hold the shape in the sail with some to spare.

Generally speaking, cams do not give you more power (maybe if the
winds are really light) but they do help the battens hold their shape
and they do a marvelous job of that. With the Infinity, I use the cam
only on the longest batten and it does a great job as you already
know.

Glenn


24 Jun 2007 00:57:19
Glenn Woodell
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 10:54:10 -0500, "wind.sh@dow" <just lurking >
wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:23:05 -0000, grayson <grayson.king@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>wind.sh@dow: the freeride has the higher foot.
>
>Thanks, makes sense. On a smaller sail, I am less likely to want cams
>more likely to want a high foot.

Which is why my 6.5 is an Infinity (biggest sail) and my smaller sails
(5.2 and 4.2) are SE Waves.

Glenn


25 Jun 2007 23:28:40
brett
Re: Ezzy 6.5: Infinity vs FreeRide Tradeoffs?

I've used both the 2006 Infinity and 2007 FreeRide in size 8.5, on the same
mast, a Reflex 6000, though not on the same day. I did not notice a big
power difference between the sails, but if anything the FreeRide felt a
little fuller. The Infinity with both cams in was more locked in, and felt
better going high, and especially deep down wind. Less difference on a beam
reach. No quirks to rigging either. Not my favorite sails, but simple and
powerful for sure. User friendly for the most part.