24 May 2006 09:27:28
fprintf
Back to the future... longboards

Ok, so many of us have ditched our longboards over the years and as
usual anything that went *way* out of style is now coming back into
style. It happens in fashion, e.g. Bell Bottom jeans, hiphugger shorts
(mmmmm, nice!) or bushy hair (yuck, these kids look like my awful 8th
grade picture!).

Just look at the recent issue of Windsurfing magazine... they are
gushing about the performance of the old Mistral and IMCO boards! I
haven't even touched one of those in years. And the online review of
the Kona at http://www.windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=42144seems
also to gush with praise. I'd bet there are a lot of those old racing
boards in attics and basements around the country that are available
for really cheap money. But why'd we dump them in teh first place?

Here are my reasons:
- heavy. Once you have carried a 20 lb. windsurf board, anything over
30 lbs seems like it is molded in lead.
- slow. Yes, in a 5 mph wind they may be faster than anything else but
who wants to sail when it isn't windy? That's what they made mountain
bikes and remote control airplanes for... entertainment for the
windless.
- rarely used. A corollary to the previous bullet. Once I learned to
shortboard I never pulled it down from the rafters.
- did I say heavy? Getting those boards down from the roof rack was
hard work!

So what are the reasons to consider picking one up, either cheap used
or a new Kona?
- they may be slightly lighter than they used to be. I doubt if they
are any higher tech, though, since the last years of those boards were
pretty decent construction wise.
- work. I used to be able to leave work whenever the forecast was right
or the flag on the flagpole outside my window was straight out. Not
anymore. So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
means low probability of >15 knot breezes.
- family. The kids are now older and wanting to learn how to sail. No
longer are they content to sit on the beach and watch.

Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
fad. .



24 May 2006 09:30:55
fprintf
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Guess I should use the "Preview" mode when posting via Google.

"So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
means low probability of >15 knot breezes"

replace "said" with sail.

:-)



24 May 2006 11:08:30
Craig Goudie
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Well, a long skinny board isn't going to be as learner friendly for new
sailors, so
that's not the market. And they certainly won't replace short boards, so
that's not the market.

It looks to me like the niche they are trying to exploit is the Waterman
market. Guys who want to be on the
water in wind from 0mph (surfing longboard or paddleboard) to 5mph longboard
sailing, to 12-25mph short board sailing.

Will the new longboards replace any of the above. Maybe the 5 MPH longboard
stuff like the Prodigy, other wise, nope.

It'd have to get going a lot stronger than it is just to become a fad, but
"new" stuff is always going to get reports,
not necessarily because it's better, just because it's "newer".

My .02

-Craig

"fprintf" <stuart.a.hall@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1148488048.696068.240890@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
>
> Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
> fad. .
>




24 May 2006 10:40:14
Dan Weiss
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
going upwind. Modern raceboards and FW certainly can be less of a
workout, but the Superlight never seems to reach any limit in terms of
VMG. The limit seems to be technique. It's also a lot of fun as a
play board and will even surf a small wave with the centerboard fully
retracted.

The feeling is very different than anything other than boards of the
same era. Very light, easy to maneuver and responsive to sailor input
without being too finicky. It won't win many races that include a long
downwind, but the really good longboards (like the Superlight) still
remain as much fun as they were back in the old days. Retractible fin,
included.

-Dan



24 May 2006 10:40:21
Dan Weiss
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
going upwind. Modern raceboards and FW certainly can be less of a
workout, but the Superlight never seems to reach any limit in terms of
VMG. The limit seems to be technique. It's also a lot of fun as a
play board and will even surf a small wave with the centerboard fully
retracted.

The feeling is very different than anything other than boards of the
same era. Very light, easy to maneuver and responsive to sailor input
without being too finicky. It won't win many races that include a long
downwind, but the really good longboards (like the Superlight) still
remain as much fun as they were back in the old days. Retractable fin,
included.

-Dan



24 May 2006 10:40:30
m--newsguy
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Not me, nor many of my friends. I think the break occurs between
those people who enjoy nonplaning sailing, and those who say it isn't
worth their time. I sail a mid 80's Superlight, my best sailing buddy
has a Pandera AND some early 80's relic the origins of which we don't
know, and another friend of mine just put a lot of money into his
Superlight when the old springloaded finbox broke.

There have been supporters of longboard sailing throughout the 90's and
00's...they've just not been that numerous. It's exciting to see
manufacturers looking to develop modern equipment for this type of
sailing.

fprintf wrote:
> Ok, so many of us have ditched our longboards over the years and as
> usual anything that went *way* out of style is now coming back into
> style. It happens in fashion, e.g. Bell Bottom jeans, hiphugger shorts
> (mmmmm, nice!) or bushy hair (yuck, these kids look like my awful 8th
> grade picture!).
>
> Just look at the recent issue of Windsurfing magazine... they are
> gushing about the performance of the old Mistral and IMCO boards! I
> haven't even touched one of those in years. And the online review of
> the Kona at http://www.windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=42144seems
> also to gush with praise. I'd bet there are a lot of those old racing
> boards in attics and basements around the country that are available
> for really cheap money. But why'd we dump them in teh first place?
>
> Here are my reasons:
> - heavy. Once you have carried a 20 lb. windsurf board, anything over
> 30 lbs seems like it is molded in lead.
> - slow. Yes, in a 5 mph wind they may be faster than anything else but
> who wants to sail when it isn't windy? That's what they made mountain
> bikes and remote control airplanes for... entertainment for the
> windless.
> - rarely used. A corollary to the previous bullet. Once I learned to
> shortboard I never pulled it down from the rafters.
> - did I say heavy? Getting those boards down from the roof rack was
> hard work!
>
> So what are the reasons to consider picking one up, either cheap used
> or a new Kona?
> - they may be slightly lighter than they used to be. I doubt if they
> are any higher tech, though, since the last years of those boards were
> pretty decent construction wise.
> - work. I used to be able to leave work whenever the forecast was right
> or the flag on the flagpole outside my window was straight out. Not
> anymore. So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
> means low probability of >15 knot breezes.
> - family. The kids are now older and wanting to learn how to sail. No
> longer are they content to sit on the beach and watch.
>
> Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
> fad. .



24 May 2006 14:18:47
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I agree, the Superlight never went out of style in the wind range
where it works best. I may not have the latest gear and I certainly
don't enjoy world-class or even consistent wind, but I can stick a
soft sail on the Superlight mast, clamp on a boom and be sailing in
about 8 minutes. It's great for those Wednesday night sailboat races.

On 24 May 2006 10:40:30 -0700, "m--newsguy" <mtvnewsguy@aol.com >
wrote:

>Not me, nor many of my friends. I think the break occurs between
>those people who enjoy nonplaning sailing, and those who say it isn't
>worth their time. I sail a mid 80's Superlight, my best sailing buddy
>has a Pandera AND some early 80's relic the origins of which we don't
>know, and another friend of mine just put a lot of money into his
>Superlight when the old springloaded finbox broke.
>
>There have been supporters of longboard sailing throughout the 90's and
>00's...they've just not been that numerous. It's exciting to see
>manufacturers looking to develop modern equipment for this type of
>sailing.


24 May 2006 12:30:16
johnspeth@yahoo.com
Re: Back to the future... longboards

> Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
> fad. .

Don't knock it if you haven't experienced a good longboard day. With
the right sail, fin, and skill, it doesn't take much wind to get going
fast while planing. It's not shortboard sailing but it has it's own
kind of thrill. It's a different facet of our sport.

I occasionally sail the gorge on longboard days. And I'm not always
alone. I've been doing it for 10 years.

Look at it like this: If you've got nothing to do, the wind is light,
you're longboard equipped, and you want to sail, the answer is obvious
on what you'll do.

JJS



24 May 2006 19:33:54
Steven Slaby
Re: Back to the future... longboards

"Dan Weiss" (dwus484@comcast.net) writes:
> I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
> including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
> it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
> going upwind.

It may have been discussed before but the number of recreational sailors
far outweighs racers so I would assume the fun factor would be much more
important than upwind capabilities for most people.

In 8-12 knots with a wide recreational board and a big sail I would be
planing and having a lot more fun than if I was on a traditional longboard
like the superlight (I have a Mistral Bermuda at the cottage).

That being said, I just saw the RSX board for the first time on the water
this past weekend and while I haven't ridden one it looks like it would be
lots of fun; daggerboard for sub-planing conditions, width to get planing
and having fun in light winds!

Steve.





24 May 2006 12:39:23
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Just this week I saw a stock Windsurfer One Design on a van headed
north past the house up to a local vacation spot. ;-)

In light air, there's just nothing more fun than a one design or a
Superlight, (etc.)



24 May 2006 13:26:11
Zephyr
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Hmm,

My only experience with a long board was with the very first board I
owned, a mistral malibu ( does that qualify)
The guy before me removed the centerboard, and glassed over the
opening, and had a dinky little football fin on the back.
I tried to sail it for 1.5 years before some yahoo's stole it, in the
time I owned it I never once ever got planing on it.
I did notice on 2 occasions that I did go faster than someone else,
both in very non - planing conditions, and the other person was using
what was then a brand new "Go"
I learned to sail on that board, and it was nothing but hard work. It
was very heavy, however, it did stand up to the abuse I put it thru
with constant mast / boom slams.
I never even thought that you could plane one something that big and
heavy with such a small fin.


Dave



24 May 2006 13:43:40
Lucky
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I've had so many fun days on my one design. If you really know how to
sail a long board (put the thing on a rail and hang on) they are as fun
as as shortboarding (to me). As someone already mentioned, it's a
different thrill...and personally I love it.



24 May 2006 23:15:06
Wolfgang Soergel
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Steven Slaby wrote:
> "Dan Weiss" (dwus484@comcast.net) writes:
>
>>I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
>>including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
>>it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
>>going upwind.
>
>
> It may have been discussed before but the number of recreational sailors
> far outweighs racers so I would assume the fun factor would be much more
> important than upwind capabilities for most people.
>
> In 8-12 knots with a wide recreational board and a big sail I would be
> planing and having a lot more fun than if I was on a traditional longboard
> like the superlight (I have a Mistral Bermuda at the cottage).

Having just again sailed big(ger) recreational and semi-race gear again
after some time at a demo event some weeks ago (North sails between 8.0
and 9.0, from no-cam to a the Warp2006 race sail and different slalom
and medium sized freerace boards from F2 and Fanatic (Hawks,
Eliminators, SX130) i think i have to disagree to some extend: To me,
marathon runner type @64kg / 140 lbs, these rigs were just plain heavy
and awkward to handle. Sure, there was a miniscule planing advantage
compared to my own gear but for me it was a reassurance that I do not
need something like that for my conditions (which means basically always
gusty: At times not enough to plane for anything, at times enough to
plane for anything...).

Realizing that my gear also won't be everyones choice (relatively small
freestyle board, 6.4 freestyle sail with superlight mast and booms -
shorter than what would be needed for larger sails of course and thus
lighter - as big gear) i can see that for some people a board which can
be efficienmtly sailed with relatively small riggs would be appealing.
Both, from a cost perspective (no need for extra long mast and booms)
and a weight/handling perspective. Contra might be that lugging around a
longboard is no fun but the same holds for Formula boards. For me
neither would work since i couldn't store them in the basement....

Wolfgang

> That being said, I just saw the RSX board for the first time on the water
> this past weekend and while I haven't ridden one it looks like it would be
> lots of fun; daggerboard for sub-planing conditions, width to get planing
> and having fun in light winds!
>


24 May 2006 17:25:30
Ellen Faller
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I've got my original Mistral Superlight, and I agree about all its
virtues. But the one big problem was its weight. I could not use it
alone, or without help. That drove me to invest in, and progress on a
Mistral Ventura. At least I could get that on my car by myself! But even
that was tough to tote around on land.
Much as I love that board, I'm not using it again until I can afford to
hire a board caddy/rigger.
Ellen



Dan Weiss wrote:
> I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
> including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
> it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
> going upwind. Modern raceboards and FW certainly can be less of a
> workout, but the Superlight never seems to reach any limit in terms of
> VMG. The limit seems to be technique. It's also a lot of fun as a
> play board and will even surf a small wave with the centerboard fully
> retracted.
>
> The feeling is very different than anything other than boards of the
> same era. Very light, easy to maneuver and responsive to sailor input
> without being too finicky. It won't win many races that include a long
> downwind, but the really good longboards (like the Superlight) still
> remain as much fun as they were back in the old days. Retractable fin,
> included.
>
> -Dan
>


24 May 2006 17:30:55
Re: Back to the future... longboards


Ellen Faller wrote:
> I've got my original Mistral Superlight, and I agree about all its
> virtues. But the one big problem was its weight. I could not use it
> alone, or without help. That drove me to invest in, and progress on a
> Mistral Ventura. At least I could get that on my car by myself! But even
> that was tough to tote around on land.
> Much as I love that board, I'm not using it again until I can afford to
> hire a board caddy/rigger.
> Ellen
>
>
>
> Dan Weiss wrote:
> > I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
> > including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
> > it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
> > going upwind. Modern raceboards and FW certainly can be less of a
> > workout, but the Superlight never seems to reach any limit in terms of
> > VMG. The limit seems to be technique. It's also a lot of fun as a
> > play board and will even surf a small wave with the centerboard fully
> > retracted.
> >
> > The feeling is very different than anything other than boards of the
> > same era. Very light, easy to maneuver and responsive to sailor input
> > without being too finicky. It won't win many races that include a long
> > downwind, but the really good longboards (like the Superlight) still
> > remain as much fun as they were back in the old days. Retractable fin,
> > included.
> >
> > -Dan

> >A lot of sailors are thinking that the Kona is just some old style long board with some new surfboard graphics. This board is very different than anything that was built before. The board is a bit wider than a traditional longboard so stability is improved. What really separates this board is the duck tail. This allows this board to act like a traditional longboard in non planning conditions only with improved turning. This improvement in turning is due to the fin being set further forward. Once the board is planning it rides on a much shorter length which allows it to go faster than traditional long boards. The other huge plus to this design is the center of lateral resistence is self adjusting. Once the board is planning the duck tail rises up and then the dagger is kicked up the center of effort moves forward so there is no need for an adjustable mast track. Another huge benefit of this tail design is that once it is planning on the fin it has very good upwind ability compared to a traditional long board. Off a plane it feels a lot like an old super light on a plane it feels like a modern free ride board. This is the first time I have sailed a board that was a lot of fun on a plane as well as off a plane. When you combine the benefits of being able to use it for stand up paddeling light wind freestyle, surf sailing and a future one design class you can see why a lot of people are excited by it. By the way this will be the best selling board in the Exocet line in the USA market.



24 May 2006 17:35:04
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Hello

>A lot of sailors are thinking that the Kona is just some old style
long board with some new surfboard graphics. This board is very
different than anything that was built before. The board is a bit wider
than a traditional longboard so stability is improved. What really
separates this board is the duck tail. This allows this board to act
like a traditional longboard in non planning conditions only with
improved turning. This improvement in turning is due to the fin being
set further forward. Once the board is planning it rides on a much
shorter length which allows it to go faster than traditional long
boards. The other huge plus to this design is the center of lateral
resistence is self adjusting. Once the board is planning the duck tail
rises up and then the dagger is kicked up the center of effort moves
forward so there is no need for an adjustable mast track. Another huge
benefit of this tail design is that once it is planning on the fin it
has very good upwind ability compared to a traditional long board. Off
a plane it feels a lot like an old super light on a plane it feels like
a modern free ride board. This is the first time I have sailed a board
that was a lot of fun on a plane as well as off a plane. When you
combine the benefits of being able to use it for stand up paddeling
light wind freestyle, surf sailing and a future one design class you
can see why a lot of people are excited by it. By the way this will be
the best selling board in the Exocet line in the USA market.

Best Regards:
Steve Gottlieb
Exocet



24 May 2006 20:47:24
Glenn Woodell
Re: Back to the future... longboards

We have quite a few sailors in my area who still go to the old long
boards in the light winds. And our regattas have plenty of them on the
race course.

Glenn

On 24 May 2006 09:27:28 -0700, "fprintf" <stuart.a.hall@gmail.com >
wrote:

>Ok, so many of us have ditched our longboards over the years and as
>usual anything that went *way* out of style is now coming back into
>style. It happens in fashion, e.g. Bell Bottom jeans, hiphugger shorts
>(mmmmm, nice!) or bushy hair (yuck, these kids look like my awful 8th
>grade picture!).
>
>Just look at the recent issue of Windsurfing magazine... they are
>gushing about the performance of the old Mistral and IMCO boards! I
>haven't even touched one of those in years. And the online review of
>the Kona at http://www.windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=42144seems
>also to gush with praise. I'd bet there are a lot of those old racing
>boards in attics and basements around the country that are available
>for really cheap money. But why'd we dump them in teh first place?
>
>Here are my reasons:
>- heavy. Once you have carried a 20 lb. windsurf board, anything over
>30 lbs seems like it is molded in lead.
>- slow. Yes, in a 5 mph wind they may be faster than anything else but
>who wants to sail when it isn't windy? That's what they made mountain
>bikes and remote control airplanes for... entertainment for the
>windless.
>- rarely used. A corollary to the previous bullet. Once I learned to
>shortboard I never pulled it down from the rafters.
>- did I say heavy? Getting those boards down from the roof rack was
>hard work!
>
>So what are the reasons to consider picking one up, either cheap used
>or a new Kona?
>- they may be slightly lighter than they used to be. I doubt if they
>are any higher tech, though, since the last years of those boards were
>pretty decent construction wise.
>- work. I used to be able to leave work whenever the forecast was right
>or the flag on the flagpole outside my window was straight out. Not
>anymore. So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
>means low probability of >15 knot breezes.
>- family. The kids are now older and wanting to learn how to sail. No
>longer are they content to sit on the beach and watch.
>
>Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
>fad. .



24 May 2006 20:49:42
Glenn Woodell
Re: Back to the future... longboards

On 24 May 2006 19:33:54 GMT, an492@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Steven Slaby)
wrote:

>"Dan Weiss" (dwus484@comcast.net) writes:
>> I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
>> including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
>> it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
>> going upwind.
>
>It may have been discussed before but the number of recreational sailors
>far outweighs racers so I would assume the fun factor would be much more
>important than upwind capabilities for most people.
>
>In 8-12 knots with a wide recreational board and a big sail I would be
>planing and having a lot more fun than if I was on a traditional longboard
>like the superlight (I have a Mistral Bermuda at the cottage).

One thing some may have missed though is the ability to basically sail
anywhere one wants with its upwind abliity. One of our locals reularly
kicks butt against the sailboats out on their weekly series.

Glenn

>That being said, I just saw the RSX board for the first time on the water
>this past weekend and while I haven't ridden one it looks like it would be
>lots of fun; daggerboard for sub-planing conditions, width to get planing
>and having fun in light winds!
>
>Steve.
>
>



24 May 2006 20:53:27
Glenn Woodell
Re: Back to the future... longboards

On 24 May 2006 10:40:30 -0700, "m--newsguy" <mtvnewsguy@aol.com >
wrote:

>Not me, nor many of my friends. I think the break occurs between
>those people who enjoy nonplaning sailing, and those who say it isn't
>worth their time. I sail a mid 80's Superlight, my best sailing buddy
>has a Pandera AND some early 80's relic the origins of which we don't
>know, and another friend of mine just put a lot of money into his
>Superlight when the old springloaded finbox broke.
>
>There have been supporters of longboard sailing throughout the 90's and
>00's...they've just not been that numerous. It's exciting to see
>manufacturers looking to develop modern equipment for this type of
>sailing.

One of our locals, the one I mentioned racing against sailboats, was
one of those behind the push for Ezzy to come out with an Infinity in
7.5 so he could race on his longboard in the 7.5 meter limited class.

Glenn


24 May 2006 21:00:56
(PeteCresswell)
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Per sailaero@aol.com:
>Once the board is planning the duck tail
>rises up and then the dagger is kicked up

Kicked up by the operator, rite?
--
PeteCresswell


25 May 2006 10:21:38
Steven Slaby
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Glenn Woodell (letsrig@!!cox!!.net) writes:
>>"Dan Weiss" (dwus484@comcast.net) writes:
>>> I own an old Mistral Superlight with a variety of original sails,
>>> including the "Regatta" sail. In two words, it rips. In five words,
>>> it rips within its element. 8-12 knots and it is still hard to beat
>>> going upwind.
>>
>>It may have been discussed before but the number of recreational sailors
>>far outweighs racers so I would assume the fun factor would be much more
>>important than upwind capabilities for most people.
>>
>>In 8-12 knots with a wide recreational board and a big sail I would be
>>planing and having a lot more fun than if I was on a traditional longboard
>>like the superlight (I have a Mistral Bermuda at the cottage).
>
> One thing some may have missed though is the ability to basically sail
> anywhere one wants with its upwind abliity. One of our locals reularly
> kicks butt against the sailboats out on their weekly series.

If the wind is enough to plane consistently, a wide lightwind board can do
the same thing swapping faster speed (more fun) for less upwind pointing
ability than longboards with daggerboards. I've zipped around the course
while sailboats were racing each other and I was able to match or beat
them depending on how consistent the winds were.

Weekly windsurfing race nights in light winds you see the Formula contingent
blasting along while the longboards go slow and steady pointing really
high. If the conditions are consistent for planing on the Formula boards,
then they are first to the finish line. I'd trade some pointing ability
for increased speed any day!

Steve.



25 May 2006 06:26:49
Patrick Jordan
Re: Back to the future... longboards


sailaero@aol.com wrote:
> Hello
>
> >A lot of sailors are thinking that the Kona is just some old style
> long board with some new surfboard graphics. This board is very
> different than anything that was built before. The board is a bit wider
> than a traditional longboard so stability is improved. What really
> separates this board is the duck tail. This allows this board to act
> like a traditional longboard in non planning conditions only with
> improved turning. This improvement in turning is due to the fin being
> set further forward. Once the board is planning it rides on a much
> shorter length which allows it to go faster than traditional long
> boards. The other huge plus to this design is the center of lateral
> resistence is self adjusting. Once the board is planning the duck tail
> rises up and then the dagger is kicked up the center of effort moves
> forward so there is no need for an adjustable mast track. Another huge
> benefit of this tail design is that once it is planning on the fin it
> has very good upwind ability compared to a traditional long board. Off
> a plane it feels a lot like an old super light on a plane it feels like
> a modern free ride board. This is the first time I have sailed a board
> that was a lot of fun on a plane as well as off a plane. When you
> combine the benefits of being able to use it for stand up paddeling
> light wind freestyle, surf sailing and a future one design class you
> can see why a lot of people are excited by it. By the way this will be
> the best selling board in the Exocet line in the USA market.
>
> Best Regards:
> Steve Gottlieb
> Exocet

If this is going to be a popular board with watermen meaning people
who surf/paddleboard in addition to windsurf the big question is how
does it handle on the wave? The ducktail is pretty untested in the
surfing world. Saying that the concept is great. Schlog into the lineup
and get some wave time riding longboard style waves. Just one bit of
advice. Don't go to the local longboard spot and piss all the paddle
surfers off. Its a big ocean and there are plenty of breaks where this
could work that are deserted.



25 May 2006 07:12:36
Dan Weiss
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Great point's Steve! Those of us who started on the old longboards
always have affection for their versatility, both racing and FUN. The
Kona looks really great, and I'm glad to see you have a probably
classic on your hands. You might even be back to making soft sails!

-Dan
sailaero@aol.com wrote:
> Hello
>
> >A lot of sailors are thinking that the Kona is just some old style
> long board with some new surfboard graphics. This board is very
> different than anything that was built before. The board is a bit wider
> than a traditional longboard so stability is improved. What really
> separates this board is the duck tail. This allows this board to act
> like a traditional longboard in non planning conditions only with
> improved turning. This improvement in turning is due to the fin being
> set further forward. Once the board is planning it rides on a much
> shorter length which allows it to go faster than traditional long
> boards. The other huge plus to this design is the center of lateral
> resistence is self adjusting. Once the board is planning the duck tail
> rises up and then the dagger is kicked up the center of effort moves
> forward so there is no need for an adjustable mast track. Another huge
> benefit of this tail design is that once it is planning on the fin it
> has very good upwind ability compared to a traditional long board. Off
> a plane it feels a lot like an old super light on a plane it feels like
> a modern free ride board. This is the first time I have sailed a board
> that was a lot of fun on a plane as well as off a plane. When you
> combine the benefits of being able to use it for stand up paddeling
> light wind freestyle, surf sailing and a future one design class you
> can see why a lot of people are excited by it. By the way this will be
> the best selling board in the Exocet line in the USA market.
>
> Best Regards:
> Steve Gottlieb
> Exocet



25 May 2006 08:06:04
Jeff
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Patrick
I've been riding a duct tail F2 Chili freestyle board in small waves
and have been amazed at how well it works. The flat bottom surface gets
it up to speed and then the rail as it angles up to the highest point
of the duct tail acts like wave rocker to make the turns work. Not sure
the Konas tail does this but I like the concept of two edges.

P.S. I have a 12 foot Softop Surftech longboard I've been stand up
paddling around. I installed a mast track in it but I have not tried
sailing it yet. Maybe this weekend if the surf is small enough.
Jeff



25 May 2006 10:21:14
LeeD
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Couple Equipe1's to be had for 10 bucks each at CalSailingClub in
Berkeley, one with race dagger, the other stock, all components
working. 195 liters and hard rails.
Took one out couple months ago with 6.4 Racefoil (1987 Gaastra) and
had fun, doing all the old time stuff and planing solidly daggerdown in
9mph, dagger up deep downwind in 16mph.
Great skill to still have, weighed them at 33 lbs for the one I rode,
35 for the other one with the big dagger, but both seemed in watertight
condition with no repairs and original flimsy finbox. Nice Mistral
made the track to accept redplate Mistral or single bolt modern twist
bases.
Really fun almost staying with the local lightwind rider who used 7.7
and Isonic...off the wind and going for top speed.



25 May 2006 11:16:59
Re: Back to the future... longboards


sailaero@aol.com wrote:
[snip]
> This board is very
> different than anything that was built before.
[snip]
> This is the first time I have sailed a board
> that was a lot of fun on a plane as well as off a plane.
[snip]
> this will be
> the best selling board in the Exocet line in the USA market.
>

Steve,
you seem to be genuinely stoked on this thing. If you really want to
prime the pump, and you think the concept can deliver the goods, I'd
recommend having Exocet provide something like 50 demo units and have
them at spots with lots of people every weekend, not just for things
like windfest. If you're right, then the resulting sales should easily
pay for it, plus you'd have rolled up the market before any of the
competitors had a chance to come out with me-too products. Plus, if the
Kona really does deliver, then you'd have single-handedly stoked the
revival of windsurfing as a mass sport in the US. What do you say?

/Andreas



25 May 2006 18:46:42
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Hello

Yes Iam genuinely stoked about this board. I see it being sucessful on
so many levels. For my own use it is really nice to fill that 5 to 10
range with something that is fun to sail in the surf. I would love to
supply 50 demo units but right now we can not keep up with the demand
for this product. There are already a lot of them in demo fleets
through the Exocet dealer network. Right now the first shipment is sold
out and the next one will be sold out before it lands in four weeks. We
will be actively pushing the one design concept with this board once
more boards become available. Look for charter boards at the races this
fall.

Best Regards:
Steve
Exocet



25 May 2006 18:56:27
Re: Back to the future... longboards

For those that have some doubts about the speed on the Kona. This just
in


Breaking news :

Patrice Belb=E9oc'h finished 16th of a fleet counting 600 riders (!) at
"Le DEFI" one of the biggest speed crossing event held at Gruissan in
the south of France. Amazingly, Patrice rode the KONA faster than many
of the best french and european windsurfers using the latest slalom
boards...



25 May 2006 22:02:52
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Are you saying that he was faster on a 30 lb. board than comparable
sailors on <18 lb. boards? Is that faster over a time span or faster
as in top speed?

On 25 May 2006 18:56:27 -0700, sailaero@aol.com wrote:

>For those that have some doubts about the speed on the Kona. This just
>in
>
>
>Breaking news :
>
>Patrice Belb?'h finished 16th of a fleet counting 600 riders (!) at
>"Le DEFI" one of the biggest speed crossing event held at Gruissan in
>the south of France. Amazingly, Patrice rode the KONA faster than many
>of the best french and european windsurfl



25 May 2006 22:17:52
LeeD
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Couple dings...
Patrice was a top 5 WorldCup racer.
Long distance races, speed in lulls counts as much as speed in the
gusts.
Longboards can make up some ground in light stuff dagger down, then
bear off when planing winds come back.
Couple months ago, I was able to almost stay with a 7.7 Severne and
Isonic 105 using a 1988 Equipe, 1987 Gaastra Racefoil 6.4. He got me,
but just barely in top speed heading slightly downwind. Maybe he gained
50' in a one mile reach.
That Equipe was 33 lbs.
Longboards are not necessarily slow, and I was using an 11" TA
Pointer, considered too short a fin for reaching and deep downwinding.



26 May 2006 11:03:07
Steve Pretti
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I love sailing my Phoenix 340 - not quite a long board, but it can point
pretty high, and it planes like a short board. I wish there was a high
performance centerboard for it, then i think it could be somewhat compeitive
with full length longboards.

"fprintf" <stuart.a.hall@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1148488048.696068.240890@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok, so many of us have ditched our longboards over the years and as
> usual anything that went *way* out of style is now coming back into
> style. It happens in fashion, e.g. Bell Bottom jeans, hiphugger shorts
> (mmmmm, nice!) or bushy hair (yuck, these kids look like my awful 8th
> grade picture!).
>
> Just look at the recent issue of Windsurfing magazine... they are
> gushing about the performance of the old Mistral and IMCO boards! I
> haven't even touched one of those in years. And the online review of
> the Kona at http://www.windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=42144seems
> also to gush with praise. I'd bet there are a lot of those old racing
> boards in attics and basements around the country that are available
> for really cheap money. But why'd we dump them in teh first place?
>
> Here are my reasons:
> - heavy. Once you have carried a 20 lb. windsurf board, anything over
> 30 lbs seems like it is molded in lead.
> - slow. Yes, in a 5 mph wind they may be faster than anything else but
> who wants to sail when it isn't windy? That's what they made mountain
> bikes and remote control airplanes for... entertainment for the
> windless.
> - rarely used. A corollary to the previous bullet. Once I learned to
> shortboard I never pulled it down from the rafters.
> - did I say heavy? Getting those boards down from the roof rack was
> hard work!
>
> So what are the reasons to consider picking one up, either cheap used
> or a new Kona?
> - they may be slightly lighter than they used to be. I doubt if they
> are any higher tech, though, since the last years of those boards were
> pretty decent construction wise.
> - work. I used to be able to leave work whenever the forecast was right
> or the flag on the flagpole outside my window was straight out. Not
> anymore. So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
> means low probability of >15 knot breezes.
> - family. The kids are now older and wanting to learn how to sail. No
> longer are they content to sit on the beach and watch.
>
> Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
> fad. .
>




26 May 2006 11:07:24
Steve Pretti
Re: Back to the future... longboards

The fin thing is interesting - my Phoenix 340 works well with a 14" Rainbow
light speed in all conditions when combined with different centerboard
angles. I thought it would be too short.

"LeeD" <domsports@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1148620672.483469.91080@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Couple dings...
> Patrice was a top 5 WorldCup racer.
> Long distance races, speed in lulls counts as much as speed in the
> gusts.
> Longboards can make up some ground in light stuff dagger down, then
> bear off when planing winds come back.
> Couple months ago, I was able to almost stay with a 7.7 Severne and
> Isonic 105 using a 1988 Equipe, 1987 Gaastra Racefoil 6.4. He got me,
> but just barely in top speed heading slightly downwind. Maybe he gained
> 50' in a one mile reach.
> That Equipe was 33 lbs.
> Longboards are not necessarily slow, and I was using an 11" TA
> Pointer, considered too short a fin for reaching and deep downwinding.
>




26 May 2006 09:55:47
LeeD
Re: Back to the future... longboards

You should consider making your own.
In the old daze, lots of guys made their own bigger daggers for
racing.
Low tech, marine ply blank, shape to foil, glass over, by the
adjuster pins from the company or make them out of lexan rod.
High tech, use foam blank, carbon fiber and glass with epoxy resin.



26 May 2006 10:31:35
LeeD
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I gave up on all my pointer A box fins about 15 years ago, as PB,
Tuttle, Trim, Conic, and Meritex predominated for go fast boards since
then.
There are TWO Equippes sitting around unused, with straps and ready
to sail. I just grabbed my biggest non wave A box fin, and used it.
On my old 26 lbs Equippe, like back in '87 thru '90, I always used a
12.5 custom Lovell or Parton pointer, but that went away back in the
mid 90's.
Never used bigger, as working in shops that sold Mistral, F2, and
Fanatic, I've seen tons of broken stock boxes with bigger fins.
Couple Oneill Classics, I was in the top 12 down past Harding, but
once stopped to rescue the Fanatic rep, and once broke my mast just
before TI.



26 May 2006 14:15:31
BatFrog
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Railing in light wind is a blast! I think a lot of sailors that
went on the short boards never took the time to learn how
to really rail a longboard. On an Equipe you can even
rail it on a reach with the centerboard halfway down and
get into the back straps 8^) That is a wild ride but it
does take some practice!

BF



26 May 2006 20:25:15
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Yeah, I love that. Someone mentioned the Pandera, that board was like
a little Equipe.

On 26 May 2006 14:15:31 -0700, "BatFrog" <t.whicker@mindspring.com >
wrote:

>Railing in light wind is a blast! I think a lot of sailors that
>went on the short boards

never took the time to learn how
>to really rail a longboard. On an Equipe you can even
>rail it on a reach with the centerboard halfway down and
>get into the back straps 8^) That is a wild ride but it
>does take some practice!
>
>BF



27 May 2006 06:52:25
m
Re: Back to the future... longboards - clear out my garage... Manchester NH! Free Equipe II!

Yeah, this brings us all back to simpler times... Talking of taking up
space in the garage...

I bought my Equipe II in '95 when Mr Feehan and I used to put around
Fairfield, CT... I moved to the Gorge and never had space on the roof to
cart it around... We moved back to New England, and I haven't sailed a bit.
We have now decided to return to the Gorge, and am now clearing out the
garage.

I love the memories of that board. But if anyone in New England want to
pick up an Equipe II (never used in 9 years) with a Neil Pryde Race 8.3 and
7.5 sail, and 500 carbon mast... let me know. It's a package deal. No
splitting up the parts you need... all you can carry for zero dollars.

Mark Frost




27 May 2006 19:01:55
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards - clear out my garage... Manchester NH! Free Equipe II!

What, no free shipping? That's a great deal for somebody.

On Sat, 27 May 2006 06:52:25 -0400, "m" <m@f.com > wrote:

>Yeah, this brings us all back to simpler times... Talking of taking up
>space in the garage...
>
>I bought my Equipe II in '95 when Mr Feehan and I used to put around
>Fairfield, CT... I moved to the Gorge and never had space on the roof to
>cart it around... We moved back to New England, and I haven't sailed a bit.
>We have now decided to return to the Gorge, and am now clearing out the
>garage.
>
>I love the memories of that board. But if anyone in New England want to
>pick up an Equipe II (never used in 9 years) with a Neil Pryde Race 8.3 and
>7.5 sail, and 500 carbon mast... let me know. It's a package deal. No
>splitting up the parts you need... all you can carry for zero dollars.
>
>Mark Frost
>



28 May 2006 04:24:51
Michael Casso
Re: Back to the future... longboards - clear out my garage... Manchester NH! Free Equipe II!

Hi Mark: That's a very generous offer. I might not have been
successful in e-mailing you directly. I have been looking for a used
Equipe II for a while. I have an Equipe I which I regularly race in
New England, but a higher volume longboard would suit me better. In
fact, tomorrow I'll be going to the Memorial Day Regatta at Lake
Quanapowitt in Wakefield, MA. I'd be very interested in buying the
equipment you listed. Would it be possible to come by to see the gear
either before or after the race? -- Michael Casso (Falmouth, MA)
michael_casso@yahoo.com



28 May 2006 13:26:21
Steve Pretti
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I might try it, could be a good first-time shaping project.

"LeeD" <domsports@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1148662547.823880.132730@j55g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You should consider making your own.
> In the old daze, lots of guys made their own bigger daggers for
> racing.
> Low tech, marine ply blank, shape to foil, glass over, by the
> adjuster pins from the company or make them out of lexan rod.
> High tech, use foam blank, carbon fiber and glass with epoxy resin.
>




29 May 2006 07:02:34
m--newsguy
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Took my Superlight out for a spin on Saturday...4-6 knots of wind...put
up a 5.5 and had a very peaceful cruise along the shoreline for half an
hour. More like boating than windsurfing, but it was very enjoyable.



29 May 2006 17:30:08
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Jerry,
He used a 7.2 in 20-25 kts. My guess would be that the board has good
top speed, it doesn't sound like it was the kind of slog plane slog
type of event that would handicap slalom boards.
http://www.exocet-original.com/kona%2Dwindsurfing/forum/read.asp?ID=9
Ray


Jerry McEwen wrote:
> Are you saying that he was faster on a 30 lb. board than comparable
> sailors on <18 lb. boards? Is that faster over a time span or faster
> as in top speed?
>
> On 25 May 2006 18:56:27 -0700, sailaero@aol.com wrote:
>
> >For those that have some doubts about the speed on the Kona. This just
> >in
> >
> >
> >Breaking news :
> >
> >Patrice Belb?'h finished 16th of a fleet counting 600 riders (!) at
> >"Le DEFI" one of the biggest speed crossing event held at Gruissan in
> >the south of France. Amazingly, Patrice rode the KONA faster than many
> >of the best french and european windsurfl



01 Jun 2006 19:47:33
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I love that in the winter when the trees are bare except for
evergreens. Just put along, watch for birds and fish. Very peaceful.

On 29 May 2006 07:02:34 -0700, "m--newsguy" <mtvnewsguy@aol.com >
wrote:

>Took my Superlight out for a spin on Saturday...4-6 knots of wind...put
>up a 5.5 and had a very peaceful cruise along the shoreline for half an
>hour. More like boating than windsurfing, but it was very enjoyable.



01 Jun 2006 22:28:59
Jerry McEwen
Re: Back to the future... longboards

On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:47:33 -0500, Jerry McEwen <homeydontpl@ythat >
wrote:

>I love that in the winter when the trees are bare except for
>evergreens. Just PUTT along, watch for birds and fish. Very peaceful.
>
>On 29 May 2006 07:02:34 -0700, "m--newsguy" <mtvnewsguy@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Took my Superlight out for a spin on Saturday...4-6 knots of wind...put
>>up a 5.5 and had a very peaceful cruise along the shoreline for half an
>>hour. More like boating than windsurfing, but it was very enjoyable.



01 Jun 2006 21:13:11
Sarasota Jack
Re: Back to the future... longboards

Steve Pretti wrote:
> I love sailing my Phoenix 340 - not quite a long board, but it can point
> pretty high, and it planes like a short board. I wish there was a high
> performance centerboard for it, then i think it could be somewhat compeitive
> with full length longboards.

Wow! A longboard Thread!

Steve, One of my bud's made an oversize CB for his IMCO and did make a
noticeable improvement in its upwind ability. So you probably can make
a difference. I think the bigger problem is the lack of waterline
length. Sub-planing, it is pretty hard to make up for a lack of it.
The 340 does a pretty good job of being an all around board though.

I recently loaned a couple of the rapidly improving, but fairly newby
locals my "backup" Equipe II. They were amazed at how effortlessly it
moved through the water. I can never understand the folks that will
slog around on their shortboards (which is still much better than
sitting on the beach) for ever, because a longboard is "too heavy".
I find this particularly amusing since Grammie Jane (my wife) can
schlep her Prodigy to the water by herself, but the same weight board
is too heavy for a younger and stronger guy! I kind of suspect "image"
has a lot to do with some folks preference. :-)

If you need a lower wind limit so you can keep your flying or
mountainbiking skills up, I can understand. I have even (gasp!)
occasionally worked on the house or a car because there wasn't much
wind. Having "true" light wind equipment does cause havoc with
non-windsurfing activities.... I am still tickled to see a renewed
interest in longboards.

Sarasota Jack
(Defender of the longboard)



> "fprintf" <stuart.a.hall@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1148488048.696068.240890@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Ok, so many of us have ditched our longboards over the years and as
> > usual anything that went *way* out of style is now coming back into
> > style. It happens in fashion, e.g. Bell Bottom jeans, hiphugger shorts
> > (mmmmm, nice!) or bushy hair (yuck, these kids look like my awful 8th
> > grade picture!).
> >
> > Just look at the recent issue of Windsurfing magazine... they are
> > gushing about the performance of the old Mistral and IMCO boards! I
> > haven't even touched one of those in years. And the online review of
> > the Kona at http://www.windsurfingmag.com/article.jsp?ID=42144seems
> > also to gush with praise. I'd bet there are a lot of those old racing
> > boards in attics and basements around the country that are available
> > for really cheap money. But why'd we dump them in teh first place?
> >
> > Here are my reasons:
> > - heavy. Once you have carried a 20 lb. windsurf board, anything over
> > 30 lbs seems like it is molded in lead.
> > - slow. Yes, in a 5 mph wind they may be faster than anything else but
> > who wants to sail when it isn't windy? That's what they made mountain
> > bikes and remote control airplanes for... entertainment for the
> > windless.
> > - rarely used. A corollary to the previous bullet. Once I learned to
> > shortboard I never pulled it down from the rafters.
> > - did I say heavy? Getting those boards down from the roof rack was
> > hard work!
> >
> > So what are the reasons to consider picking one up, either cheap used
> > or a new Kona?
> > - they may be slightly lighter than they used to be. I doubt if they
> > are any higher tech, though, since the last years of those boards were
> > pretty decent construction wise.
> > - work. I used to be able to leave work whenever the forecast was right
> > or the flag on the flagpole outside my window was straight out. Not
> > anymore. So I need to said on the weekends during the summer, which
> > means low probability of >15 knot breezes.
> > - family. The kids are now older and wanting to learn how to sail. No
> > longer are they content to sit on the beach and watch.
> >
> > Hopefully a resurgence in longboard interest will not be a short lived
> > fad. .
> >



02 Jun 2006 09:50:55
LeeD
Re: Back to the future... longboards

I agree.
Longboards are still fun, and require more different kinds of skills
than just blasting back and forth on a reach with a shortboard.
That said, an Equipe just doesn't fit in my plans quite yet, even
thos it's fun to sail and decently fast.
I figure, an 8 Spectro with dagger down would plane upwind in around
10mph breezes, and dagger up downwind in maybe 16.
Geez, my lightwind slalom board (60cm, 14lbs, 276cms, 127 liters) is
just about the same in bottom end....and blow doors when it reaches
over 14mph.



03 Jun 2006 06:37:45
Re: Back to the future... longboards


Sarasota Jack wrote:
> Wow! A longboard Thread!

Jack,
Glad to hear from you again. We are also glad that longboards are
resurging in a form that appears to be more user friendly. Just say
it's a lesson learned.
Ray