16 Sep 2005 10:39:24
Bobby
puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

im thinking of puting an ls1 car engine in my boat. the only thing i
can think of that will have to be changed is the cam because my exhaust
is under water.

Is this possible?



16 Sep 2005 16:28:34
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

none of your electronics are marine approved. your efi is probably
different, I know that the computer is different. By the time that you get
done, you will have been money ahead just buying a marine engine.


"Bobby" <sweper427@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1126892364.772661.313340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> im thinking of puting an ls1 car engine in my boat. the only thing i
> can think of that will have to be changed is the cam because my exhaust
> is under water.
>
> Is this possible?
>




16 Sep 2005 14:38:37
Bobby
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

as far as the computer goes any time a computer controlled engine is
removed and put in to something else a custom computer program is
needed. i can get that for about 350.00.

there might be a point about the electronics but this is a lake boat.
it will stay dryer under the engine cowl than the one in my camaro does
under the hood. but that is something to consider.



17 Sep 2005 00:06:56
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On 16 Sep 2005 14:38:37 -0700, "Bobby" <sweper427@hotmail.com > wrote:

>as far as the computer goes any time a computer controlled engine is
>removed and put in to something else a custom computer program is
>needed. i can get that for about 350.00.
>
>there might be a point about the electronics but this is a lake boat.
>it will stay dryer under the engine cowl than the one in my camaro does
>under the hood. but that is something to consider.

Marinizing is not the same as waterproofing. You need intrinsically
safe electrical components like starters, or, as Piglet would say
"Here comes the big Kerpowee". Kaboom.


17 Sep 2005 02:34:08
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

As Tom said, water isn't what I was talking about. You have a closed
compartment for the engine in a boat, and open in a car. all the boat
things are set to stop sparks because gas fumes can sit in the bilgh.
Alternator, starter, and Dist. to name a few.

as far as the computer, I'm aware of what you can and can't do. The simple
fact is that reprograming a boat computer is NOT like doing a car. No one
has the "secret" down. You may have to do it 3 or 4 times to get it right.
Unless someone has done the EXACT same one in the same boat, the odds are
that the 1st tiome, they aren't gonna be right. and remember, the computer
fom your car in most cases is NOT going to work with what the boat has to
do, so you are going to be just reprogramming, you are gonna be buying a new
one.

Your cam as you know is way wrong. You don't usually cruise your car at
3500 rpm. Your car injectors are wrong, (and the computer controls them)


If you were asking me about converting a car CARB engine over, I'd say you
were going be a lot better off. when you start messing with the EFI and the
computer you start talking BIG BIG dollars. My 509 with a simple Holley on
it makes 632 HP, and starts like it has EFI on it. It started life as a 502
Mercruiser EFI motor. We threw the efi in the trash, because it would have
cost of thousands of dollars to make the same HP with it as the carb. I
don't boat in the cold weather, so starting is never an issue.


"Bobby" <sweper427@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1126906717.159915.150120@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> as far as the computer goes any time a computer controlled engine is
> removed and put in to something else a custom computer program is
> needed. i can get that for about 350.00.
>
> there might be a point about the electronics but this is a lake boat.
> it will stay dryer under the engine cowl than the one in my camaro does
> under the hood. but that is something to consider.
>




17 Sep 2005 14:34:46
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On Sat, 17 Sep 2005 02:34:08 -0400, "Doug Meredith"
<changethecomtonetzonefive@adelphia.com > wrote:

>As Tom said, water isn't what I was talking about. You have a closed
>compartment for the engine in a boat, and open in a car. all the boat
>things are set to stop sparks because gas fumes can sit in the bilgh.
>Alternator, starter, and Dist. to name a few.
....

There's also the closed cooling system of the LS1 to contend with -
you'll need a heat exchanger and if you want a shower you'll need a
special one from Heatercraft.


Overall I bet you'll spend 1500 bucks minimum to convert.


17 Sep 2005 19:13:23
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat


"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com > wrote in message
news:v9aoi1pm9f5lg6439gsp978nc4g4c0v3rn@4ax.com...
> There's also the closed cooling system of the LS1 to contend with -
> you'll need a heat exchanger and if you want a shower you'll need a
> special one from Heatercraft.
>
>
> Overall I bet you'll spend 1500 bucks minimum to convert.


Marine exhaust alone is gonna cost $1000. Marine Dist. ~ $350 New cam,
$300, etc etc etc.




28 Sep 2005 06:20:14
bert
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

Tom Ruta wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2005 14:38:37 -0700, "Bobby" <sweper427@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >as far as the computer goes any time a computer controlled engine is
> >removed and put in to something else a custom computer program is
> >needed. i can get that for about 350.00.
> >
> >there might be a point about the electronics but this is a lake boat.
> >it will stay dryer under the engine cowl than the one in my camaro does
> >under the hood. but that is something to consider.
>
> Marinizing is not the same as waterproofing. You need intrinsically
> safe electrical components like starters, or, as Piglet would say
> "Here comes the big Kerpowee". Kaboom.

No, the starter, starter relay ignition coil, dist. etc. are not
intrinsically safe devices. The fuel system is something you need to be
concerned about.



28 Sep 2005 23:29:16
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat


"bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1127913614.542734.21000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> No, the starter, starter relay ignition coil, dist. etc. are not
> intrinsically safe devices. The fuel system is something you need to be
> concerned about.


Thats what Tom said. On the "basic" efi system, there is no difference
between the boat version and the car version.




28 Sep 2005 21:35:05
bert
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
engine compartment.



29 Sep 2005 13:24:31
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On 28 Sep 2005 21:35:05 -0700, "bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote:

>No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
>safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
>a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
>system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
>engine compartment.

By intrinsically safe, I was not referring to Class 1 - Div 1 devices
but to specially modified (ie. screened) components. If you wanna
bolt on a run of the mill component to your boat engine, go ahead. I
prefer to use CG approved "safe" devices.


29 Sep 2005 13:29:12
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On 28 Sep 2005 21:35:05 -0700, "bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote:

>No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
>safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
>a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
>system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
>engine compartment.



29 Sep 2005 13:29:49
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

And BTW, the ignition protection is based on SAEJ1171 & ISO8846
marine specifications. That is NOT what you have in a car starter.

On 28 Sep 2005 21:35:05 -0700, "bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote:

>No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
>safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
>a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
>system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
>engine compartment.



30 Sep 2005 06:08:20
Patman
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

An LS1 starter is actually a fully sealed unit.

Kincaid marine in Australia make a full marinising kit for the LS1 / GEN 3,
branded as Rolco.

Pat

"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com > wrote in message
news:42rnj196kkiffmqal5kv3dishvdjb4dhvg@4ax.com...
> And BTW, the ignition protection is based on SAEJ1171 & ISO8846
> marine specifications. That is NOT what you have in a car starter.
>
> On 28 Sep 2005 21:35:05 -0700, "bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
>>safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
>>a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
>>system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
>>engine compartment.
>




29 Sep 2005 15:06:07
bert
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

No dis agreement about using the correct devices, just they are not
intrinsically safe. BTW Class 1 Div 1, Div 2 or Class 1 Zone 1, Zone 2
do not have to be intrinsically safe. That is just one acceptable means
of protection in areas with tose classifications.



30 Sep 2005 00:10:25
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On 29 Sep 2005 15:06:07 -0700, "bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote:

>No dis agreement about using the correct devices, just they are not
>intrinsically safe. BTW Class 1 Div 1, Div 2 or Class 1 Zone 1, Zone 2
>do not have to be intrinsically safe. That is just one acceptable means
>of protection in areas with tose classifications.


Uhh... no. Class 1 - Div 1 IS intrinsically safe. I've spec'ed those
devices for gas plants. Of course if you are arguing that
intrinsically safe devices are not necessarily DIv/C1 then you are
correct.


30 Sep 2005 00:12:29
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:08:20 +1000, "Patman" <patsproule@oz.com.au >
wrote:

>An LS1 starter is actually a fully sealed unit.

I did not know that. But does that mean it is the same one in a
marine app? Or is a special marinized starter need to meet CG regs?


30 Sep 2005 01:35:42
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat


"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com > wrote in message
news:dk0pj118172c8ninpiqnu7br31a4nl88ve@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:08:20 +1000, "Patman" <patsproule@oz.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>>An LS1 starter is actually a fully sealed unit.
>
> I did not know that. But does that mean it is the same one in a
> marine app? Or is a special marinized starter need to meet CG regs?

Current "car" starters, at least GM ar ethe same as marine. I doubt that
they have a USCG sticker on them, but there is no difference, No sparks,
totally sealed.




30 Sep 2005 01:46:33
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat


"bert" <bertneish@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1127968505.197267.47520@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> No he said you need intrinsically safe devices in a boat. Intrinsically
> safe means the device can operate in an explosive atmosphere and not be
> a source of ignition. You do not have these in your boat. The fuel
> system is designed to contain vapors and a blower is used to purge the
> engine compartment.


any times you get gas fumes, and a spark, its not good. However, Marine
electronics are sealed so that if you get fumes, you should not have a
problem. The blower is run to make sure that if something failed (all
mechanical things fail sometimes) that you have a chance to not explode the
boat.

The original poster was asking about a car engine in a boat. Taking the
mechanics out of it, at the very least you would need a marine alternator,
dist, and starter. These are the 3 main pieces that can cause sparks. If
yo run a carb, you should have a marine one, as it has special seals on the
shafts, and "J" tubes, to keep the fuel in the carb, and not in the bilge.
If you are running EFI, its a sealed system to start with, and to the best
of my knowledge, its no different between the two (again, taking the
mechanics out of it)


If you are stupid, and don't do the right things, you can cause any boat
motor to end up with fumes and make nasty noises. If you use the right
parts, run your blower, you are 99.99% safe. Before I start my engine, I
ALWAYS lift the hatch. I check for fuel smell. No fumes, its good to go.


On all of these things, if nothing fails, you have an intrinsically safe
situation. Key worn "nothing fails"




30 Sep 2005 12:09:56
Tom Ruta
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:35:42 -0400, "Doug Meredith"
<changethecomtonetzonefive@adelphia.com > wrote:

>
>"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com> wrote in message
>news:dk0pj118172c8ninpiqnu7br31a4nl88ve@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:08:20 +1000, "Patman" <patsproule@oz.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>An LS1 starter is actually a fully sealed unit.
>>
>> I did not know that. But does that mean it is the same one in a
>> marine app? Or is a special marinized starter need to meet CG regs?
>
>Current "car" starters, at least GM ar ethe same as marine. I doubt that
>they have a USCG sticker on them, but there is no difference, No sparks,
>totally sealed.
>

Doh! I was thinking "alternator" and typed "starter."



30 Sep 2005 23:21:41
Doug Meredith
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat


"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com > wrote in message
news:hoaqj19ucv7696mgsmtgs9enefgc8ahv7l@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:35:42 -0400, "Doug Meredith"
> <changethecomtonetzonefive@adelphia.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Tom Ruta" <rutat@cadvision.com> wrote in message
>>news:dk0pj118172c8ninpiqnu7br31a4nl88ve@4ax.com...
>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:08:20 +1000, "Patman" <patsproule@oz.com.au>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>An LS1 starter is actually a fully sealed unit.
>>>
>>> I did not know that. But does that mean it is the same one in a
>>> marine app? Or is a special marinized starter need to meet CG regs?
>>
>>Current "car" starters, at least GM ar ethe same as marine. I doubt that
>>they have a USCG sticker on them, but there is no difference, No sparks,
>>totally sealed.
>>
>
> Doh! I was thinking "alternator" and typed "starter."


Yea right. and I was thinking I had hair and didn't <LOL >




01 Oct 2005 20:04:25
bert
Re: puting an ls1 out of a car in my boat

Well not exactly, the following types of protection are allowed in
Class 1 Div 1 areas classified using the division system, Intrinsically
safe, explosion proof or purged/pressurized (type X or Y) so spec'ing
IS devices is not the only solution and Class 1 div 1 does not mean
intrinsically safe. This is a common mis-understanding.
In Canada we adopted the Zone system in the 1998 edition of the CEC
whic allows the use of other methods as well.
Want to learn more go sign up for the workshop we are hosting at
http://www.ieee.ca/safetyworkshop05/My old boss and chair of the CEC
section 18 hazardous location committe is making a presentation
Hazardous Area Classification - Methods, OH&S,
Common Mistakes.
We find many gas plants in western Canada that have had incorrect
equipment specified or classified incorrectly.
This is way of the marine topic and since this is beginning to feel
like my job and I can't believe I wasted my time typing that, See ya
later.