08 May 2007 11:28:34
R*A*J*A*
Sabatini > Clijsters

Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.

Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
though.
Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
chickened out.

Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
#1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.

I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
lead against Serena once at AO, though.



08 May 2007 12:07:48
Calimero
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 8:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> Both were weak on clay and best on HC.

Winning percentage Sabatini
clay: 79.6 %
HC: 76.5 %

Thanks.

Max



08 May 2007 12:22:17
R*A*J*A*
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 2:07 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On May 8, 8:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > Both were weak on clay and best on HC.
>
> Winning percentage Sabatini
> clay: 79.6 %
> HC: 76.5 %
>
> Thanks.
>
> Max

that is pretty close.. and Sabatini didnt do as well in FO as in USO.





08 May 2007 12:26:48
Calimero
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 9:22 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 8, 2:07 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > On May 8, 8:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > > Both were weak on clay and best on HC.
>
> > Winning percentage Sabatini
> > clay: 79.6 %
> > HC: 76.5 %
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Max
>
> that is pretty close.. and Sabatini didnt do as well in FO as in USO.

That is not close.
Clay was Sabby best surface. Who says otherwise doesn't know anything
about tennis.

Max



08 May 2007 12:28:56
R*A*J*A*
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 2:26 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On May 8, 9:22 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 2:07 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > On May 8, 8:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > > > Both were weak on clay and best on HC.
>
> > > Winning percentage Sabatini
> > > clay: 79.6 %
> > > HC: 76.5 %
>
> > > Thanks.
>
> > > Max
>
> > that is pretty close.. and Sabatini didnt do as well in FO as in USO.
>
> That is not close.
> Clay was Sabby best surface. Who says otherwise doesn't know anything
> about tennis.

gimme a break up of the titles she won. I am not gonna give up this
soon.
>
> Max- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -




08 May 2007 12:36:53
nemanja
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 2:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
> though.

Weak on clay? You've got to be joking. 15 of her 27 singles titles
came on clay. 42 singles wins at Roland Garros vs. 21 at the US Open.
Plus her biggest title after the Open was Rome (3 or 4 times).

> Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
> chickened out.

I'd say they both fought to the best of their abilities but came up
against superior opponents. They both had some injury problems as well
that had a negative impact on their title counts.

> Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
> #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.

Sabatini was on more than one occasion in 1991 within a match of no.1
(in fact, during the 1991 Wimbledon final, she was mere points away).
She missed it, but not by much.

Nemanja



08 May 2007 12:39:37
R*A*J*A*
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 2:36 pm, nemanja <nemanja.dundjero...@discreet.com > wrote:
> On May 8, 2:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
> > though.
>
> Weak on clay? You've got to be joking. 15 of her 27 singles titles
> came on clay. 42 singles wins at Roland Garros vs. 21 at the US Open.
> Plus her biggest title after the Open was Rome (3 or 4 times).


Okay I am convinced. I accept my mistake. But I suspect her success in
Rome was due to the fact that Steffi didnt play there.

>
> > Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
> > chickened out.
>
> I'd say they both fought to the best of their abilities but came up
> against superior opponents.

Sabatini choked away 1991 W final and 1992 FO semi final.

>They both had some injury problems as well
> that had a negative impact on their title counts.
>
> > Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
> > #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>
> Sabatini was on more than one occasion in 1991 within a match of no.1
> (in fact, during the 1991 Wimbledon final, she was mere points away).
> She missed it, but not by much.

true.
>
> Nemanja




09 May 2007 01:02:15
Sakari Lund
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepfloyes@gmail.com > wrote:

>Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
>Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
>though.
>Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
>chickened out.

Sabatini retired pretty young also.

>Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
>#1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>
>I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
>She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
>against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
>such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
>lead against Serena once at AO, though.

Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
many times Sabatini was in the final.

But obviously pretty equal careers.


08 May 2007 15:16:07
R*A*J*A*
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 5:02 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com > wrote:
> On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> >Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
> >though.
> >Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
> >chickened out.
>
> Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>
> >Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
> >#1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>
> >I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
> >She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
> >against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
> >such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
> >lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>
> Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
> erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
> many times Sabatini was in the final.
>
> But obviously pretty equal careers.

Sabatini was in 1988 US Open final too and took a set of Graf which
was a huge achievement for that year. She also was the only one to
beat her the whole year.

Also lets not forget Sabatini beat Graf 11 times more than any other
player. How many times did Clijsters beat Henin?



09 May 2007 01:36:42
Sakari Lund
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On 8 May 2007 15:16:07 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepfloyes@gmail.com > wrote:

>On May 8, 5:02 pm, Sakari Lund <sakari.l...@welho.com> wrote:
>> On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>>
>> >Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
>> >though.
>> >Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
>> >chickened out.
>>
>> Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>>
>> >Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
>> >#1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>>
>> >I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
>> >She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
>> >against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
>> >such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
>> >lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>>
>> Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
>> erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
>> many times Sabatini was in the final.
>>
>> But obviously pretty equal careers.
>
>Sabatini was in 1988 US Open final too and took a set of Graf which
>was a huge achievement for that year. She also was the only one to
>beat her the whole year.
>
>Also lets not forget Sabatini beat Graf 11 times more than any other
>player. How many times did Clijsters beat Henin?

10 times. Thanks for reminding me to check the final head-to-head. On
the WTA Tour (so excluding two ITF events when Kim was 15) it is
10-10. It was 10-7 to Kim until Justine won the last three. Kim used
to beat Justine routinely earlier, except in slam finals... She won
the first two matches in slams 01 FO and 02 AO (6-2,6-3). Also 6-2,6-1
at YEC 02.



08 May 2007 16:19:41
Voice of Reason
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 8, 3:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On May 8, 2:26 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 8, 9:22 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 8, 2:07 pm, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 8, 8:28 pm, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > > > > Both were weak on clay and best on HC.
>
> > > > Winning percentage Sabatini
> > > > clay: 79.6 %
> > > > HC: 76.5 %
>
> > > > Thanks.
>
> > > > Max
>
> > > that is pretty close.. and Sabatini didnt do as well in FO as in USO.
>
> > That is not close.
> > Clay was Sabby best surface. Who says otherwise doesn't know anything
> > about tennis.
>
> gimme a break up of the titles she won. I am not gonna give up this
> soon.
>
>
>
> > Max- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -

GIYF



09 May 2007 00:34:06
samn
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On 8 May, 20:39, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:

> Okay I am convinced. I accept my mistake.
> But I suspect her success in
> Rome was due to the fact that Steffi didnt play there.

Sabatini didn't have to play Graf to prove a point in Rome. In both
1991 and 1992 Sabatini beat the world #1 and reigning French Open
champion, Seles, in the Italian Open final. In '91 Seles got a 6-3 6-2
shellacking, and she fared somewhat better the following year, losing
6-4 7-5.

Besides, Sabatini beat Graf four times on clay (Amelia Island in 1988,
1989, 1991, and 1992) and often gave the German a very tough time on
the surface (USCC '86, Hilton Head '87, French semis '87, Berlin F '93)



09 May 2007 00:36:57
samn
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On 8 May, 23:16, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:

> Sabatini was in 1988 US Open final too and took a set of Graf which
> was a huge achievement for that year. She also was the only one to
> beat her the whole year.

Sabatini was the only player to have beaten Graf in 1988 prior to the
US Open. Graf went on to have one more loss that year - to Pam Shriver
in the semifinals of the Virginia Slims Championships at Madison
Square Garden.



09 May 2007 18:32:21
Whisper
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

Sakari Lund wrote:
> On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepfloyes@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>>
>> Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
>> though.
>> Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
>> chickened out.
>
> Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>
>> Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
>> #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>>
>> I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
>> She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
>> against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
>> such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
>> lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>
> Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
> erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
> many times Sabatini was in the final.
>
> But obviously pretty equal careers.


It's kinda shocking to think Sabby only made 2 slam finals.


09 May 2007 18:34:20
Whisper
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

R*A*J*A* wrote:
>>
>> But obviously pretty equal careers.
>
> Sabatini was in 1988 US Open final too and took a set of Graf which
> was a huge achievement for that year. She also was the only one to
> beat her the whole year.
>
> Also lets not forget Sabatini beat Graf 11 times more than any other
> player. How many times did Clijsters beat Henin?
>


About 9?



09 May 2007 01:52:17
Calimero
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 9, 10:32 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Sakari Lund wrote:
> > On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> >> Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
> >> though.
> >> Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
> >> chickened out.
>
> > Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>
> >> Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
> >> #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>
> >> I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
> >> She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
> >> against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
> >> such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
> >> lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>
> > Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
> > erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
> > many times Sabatini was in the final.
>
> > But obviously pretty equal careers.
>
> It's kinda shocking to think Sabby only made 2 slam finals.

She made 3.
USOs 88 & 90, Wim 91.

Max



09 May 2007 18:57:37
Whisper
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

Calimero wrote:
> On May 9, 10:32 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> Sakari Lund wrote:
>>> On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>>>> Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
>>>> though.
>>>> Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
>>>> chickened out.
>>> Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>>>> Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
>>>> #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>>>> I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
>>>> She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
>>>> against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
>>>> such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
>>>> lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>>> Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
>>> erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
>>> many times Sabatini was in the final.
>>> But obviously pretty equal careers.
>> It's kinda shocking to think Sabby only made 2 slam finals.
>
> She made 3.
> USOs 88 & 90, Wim 91.
>
> Max
>


Of course. How could I forget the Grand Slam final.


09 May 2007 02:04:50
fearsomeforehand
Re: Sabatini > Clijsters

On May 9, 4:52 am, Calimero <calimero...@gmx.de > wrote:
> On May 9, 10:32 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sakari Lund wrote:
> > > On 8 May 2007 11:28:34 -0700, R*A*J*A* <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Both won 1 USO and 2 YECs.
>
> > >> Both were weak on clay and best on HC. Sabatini was good on grass
> > >> though.
> > >> Both were chokers. But Sabatini fought until the end. Clijsters
> > >> chickened out.
>
> > > Sabatini retired pretty young also.
>
> > >> Sabatini never got to #1 courtesy Steffi and Monica. Clijsters got to
> > >> #1 but didnt last long. I dont think that would make her seem better.
>
> > >> I would say Sabatini should have won more slams with a bit of luck.
> > >> She also gave extremely tough fight in FO 1992 against Seles and
> > >> against Steffi in Wimbeldon 91. Clijsters never came close to giving
> > >> such fights to the sistas or Henin. She did pathetically blow a 5-1
> > >> lead against Serena once at AO, though.
>
> > > Sabatini never was as close to winning another slam as Kim was (12-10
> > > erd set). Beat Henin at SF in the same slam, BTW. I don't remember how
> > > many times Sabatini was in the final.
>
> > > But obviously pretty equal careers.
>
> > It's kinda shocking to think Sabby only made 2 slam finals.
>
> She made 3.
> USOs 88 & 90, Wim 91.
>
> Max- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

funnily enough, she never made a French Open final..on what I consider
her best surface. She came close twice, I think? Once against Steffi
(1987) and once against Seles (1992). I did not see the 1987 semi..but
the way Seles clawed her way back was frighteningly good.