30 Jul 2006 17:15:52
Manco
Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

When will just say no to the Zionist entity?




30 Jul 2006 10:29:26
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Manco wrote:
> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?


Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?

Max


--
"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly
seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the
new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just
'anti-Zionist'! ...
When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
it."
(Martin Luther King)



30 Jul 2006 17:31:21
Manco
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> Manco wrote:
>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>
>
> Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?
>
> Max

Ah so you bathe in the blood of babes. Nice.




30 Jul 2006 17:32:35
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Manco wrote:
> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>

it's an election year in the united states so it won't be this year.

my opinion of the racist zionist regime is that they are, in many ways,
like their former allies the former apartheid regime in south africa:

- the zionist regime seeks to establish a bogus palestinian
"homeland" that will be dependent on the zionist regime;

- the zionist regime is building an apartheid wall to steal
even more palestinian land than they have already stolen
(you don't even have to go back to 1947, 1967 will do) and
to ensure cantonization of the bogus palestinian "homeland"
so that it is not a contiguous land area. among the
attrocities (beyond those which even the corporate media
in the united states can't prevent from being seen by the
public) is the theft of water resources, so the bogus
palestinian homeland will not only be noncontiguous, and
economically dependent on the racist zionist regime, but
they will also not even control water resources in the
region;

- the zionist regime forces a breakup of palestinian families
living in israel by refusing to allow husbands and wives to
live together;

- the racist zionist regime has laws such that an israeli jew
who marries a palestinian loses israli citizenship.

if you listen to some of the arguments made by american politicians to
justify support of the racist zionist regime, and substitute the word
"communism" for each instance where they use the word "terrorism" you
would see that the language that they are using is very similar to that
used in the past to justify support of the apartheid regime in south
africa.

i think that the current situation in palestine/israel is similar to the
situation that existed about 40 years ago in apartheid south afica. at
the time, many (if not most) believed that apartheid would be perpetual.

i doubt that we will have to wait 40 more years for justice in the
middle east - something will give one way or the other.


30 Jul 2006 10:44:54
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Manco wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > Manco wrote:
> >> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >
> >
> > Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?
> >
> > Max
>
> Ah so you bathe in the blood of babes. Nice.


Come on, tell us what about the Qana attack was a "war crime".
Which law, which section, which paragraph?
Come on, Dumbo!!


Max


--
"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly
seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the
new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just
'anti-Zionist'! ...
When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
it."
(Martin Luther King)



30 Jul 2006 17:52:29
Manco
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> Manco wrote:
>> Calimero wrote:
>>> Manco wrote:
>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>
>>>
>>> Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?
>>>
>>> Max
>>
>> Ah so you bathe in the blood of babes. Nice.
>
>
> Come on, tell us what about the Qana attack was a "war crime".
> Which law, which section, which paragraph?
> Come on, Dumbo!!
>
>
> Max

Continue to bathe in the blood of babes for your Zionist friends Asshole!!!!




30 Jul 2006 13:10:55
wkhedr
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Nations are learning that they are better off having what it takes to
defend themselves instead of believing in the peace talk!

Weakness does not bring peace, balance of power does.


jingus wrote:
> Manco wrote:
> > When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >
>
> it's an election year in the united states so it won't be this year.
>
> my opinion of the racist zionist regime is that they are, in many ways,
> like their former allies the former apartheid regime in south africa:
>
> - the zionist regime seeks to establish a bogus palestinian
> "homeland" that will be dependent on the zionist regime;
>
> - the zionist regime is building an apartheid wall to steal
> even more palestinian land than they have already stolen
> (you don't even have to go back to 1947, 1967 will do) and
> to ensure cantonization of the bogus palestinian "homeland"
> so that it is not a contiguous land area. among the
> attrocities (beyond those which even the corporate media
> in the united states can't prevent from being seen by the
> public) is the theft of water resources, so the bogus
> palestinian homeland will not only be noncontiguous, and
> economically dependent on the racist zionist regime, but
> they will also not even control water resources in the
> region;
>
> - the zionist regime forces a breakup of palestinian families
> living in israel by refusing to allow husbands and wives to
> live together;
>
> - the racist zionist regime has laws such that an israeli jew
> who marries a palestinian loses israli citizenship.
>
> if you listen to some of the arguments made by american politicians to
> justify support of the racist zionist regime, and substitute the word
> "communism" for each instance where they use the word "terrorism" you
> would see that the language that they are using is very similar to that
> used in the past to justify support of the apartheid regime in south
> africa.
>
> i think that the current situation in palestine/israel is similar to the
> situation that existed about 40 years ago in apartheid south afica. at
> the time, many (if not most) believed that apartheid would be perpetual.
>
> i doubt that we will have to wait 40 more years for justice in the
> middle east - something will give one way or the other.



30 Jul 2006 13:14:48
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Manco wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > Manco wrote:
> >> Calimero wrote:
> >>> Manco wrote:
> >>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?
> >>>
> >>> Max
> >>
> >> Ah so you bathe in the blood of babes. Nice.
> >
> >
> > Come on, tell us what about the Qana attack was a "war crime".
> > Which law, which section, which paragraph?
> > Come on, Dumbo!!
> >
> >
> > Max
>
> Continue to bathe in the blood of babes for your Zionist friends Asshole!!!!


No answer is an answer as well, Naziboy ....

Max


--
"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly
seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the
new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just
'anti-Zionist'! ...
When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
it."
(Martin Luther King)



30 Jul 2006 22:15:13
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com > a écrit dans le message de news:
cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>
Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview




30 Jul 2006 21:16:14
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote in message
news:1154281494.829053.38140@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> Manco wrote:
>> Calimero wrote:
>> > Manco wrote:
>> >> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>> >
>> >
>> > Why do you think this was a "war crime", Dumbo?
>> >
>> > Max
>>
>> Ah so you bathe in the blood of babes. Nice.
>
>
> Come on, tell us what about the Qana attack was a "war crime".
> Which law, which section, which paragraph?
> Come on, Dumbo!!
>
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-un.htm
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-nurem.htm
http://deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm





30 Jul 2006 20:40:29
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

wkhedr wrote:
> Nations are learning that they are better off having what it takes to
> defend themselves instead of believing in the peace talk!
>
> Weakness does not bring peace, balance of power does.
>

that's absolutely correct, the problem is that you create a powderkeg
situation that could explode into a wider conflict - much as happened
in 1914...

without doubt, the united nations is becoming a modern day equivalent
to the league of nations. what is all the more dangerous is the sense
of there being a single superpower. whether it was the nazi's,
napoleon, or the ancient roman empire, history is littered with
examples of how dangeous it is for countries to begin to believe in
their own military invincibility; it invariably results in the
the superpower feeling that there is no point in having a supposedly
invincible army unless it's used to advance the nation's interests
internationally, by force. this invariable ends up in a wider conflict;
the scale seems to get wider with each conflict: world war 2 was fought
on a wider scale than world war 1, for example.


30 Jul 2006 23:30:53
Manco
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

RB wrote:
> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>
> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview

Indeed. Israel = Nazis.... 'Nuff said.




30 Jul 2006 23:42:00
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Manco wrote:
> RB wrote:
>
>>"Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>
>>>When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>
>>
>>Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>
>
> Indeed. Israel = Nazis.... 'Nuff said.
>

shit like this almost makes you wish that hitler would have fried them
all.


30 Jul 2006 21:50:02
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> Manco wrote:

> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> it."
> (Martin Luther King)

the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
waste of time and money.



--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


30 Jul 2006 20:50:38
Breeder
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


stephenj wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > Manco wrote:
>
> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> > it."
> > (Martin Luther King)
>
> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
> israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
> efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
> waste of time and money.<<

Make a note of it, Gerbilos. You said something smart and I'm praising
you;)



30 Jul 2006 23:39:58
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Breeder wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>Calimero wrote:
>>
>>>Manco wrote:
>>
>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>it."
>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>
>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
>>israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
>>efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
>>waste of time and money.<<
>
>
> Make a note of it, Gerbilos.

--
breeder, do you like bacon with your hairy hidden handed huge erection?
Or did i bang your sister or girlfriend? rofl!


31 Jul 2006 12:31:19
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:50:02 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net > wrote:

>Calimero wrote:
>> Manco wrote:
>
>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>> it."
>> (Martin Luther King)
>
>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
>israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
>efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
>waste of time and money.


Tell it to Bush !!!


31 Jul 2006 05:44:54
Wayne
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


stephenj wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > Manco wrote:
>
> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> > it."
> > (Martin Luther King)
>
> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.

that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?



31 Jul 2006 12:56:31
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com > wrote:

>
>stephenj wrote:
>> Calimero wrote:
>> > Manco wrote:
>>
>> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>> > it."
>> > (Martin Luther King)
>>
>> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>
>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?


ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.

it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.

it failed.

nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.

the american people are too busy to care.

p.s.

Bush has no real foreign policy. never has and never will.


31 Jul 2006 08:04:44
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Wayne wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>Calimero wrote:
>>
>>>Manco wrote:
>>
>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>it."
>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>
>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>
>
> that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy.

it would be a repudiation of US policy in that region for at least the
past 50 yrs.

--
people invoke Natural Law when they wish to get
their way without having to argue for it.

- Jeremy Bentham


31 Jul 2006 17:10:17
One
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

stephenj <sjek@cox.net > wrote in news:udezg.14436$PO.1243@dukeread03:

> Calimero wrote:
>> Manco wrote:
>
>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>> it."
>> (Martin Luther King)
>
> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
> israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
> efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
> waste of time and money.

it's not about helping the people of the region it's about oil


31 Jul 2006 09:00:59
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:50:02 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >Calimero wrote:
> >> Manco wrote:
> >
> >> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> >> it."
> >> (Martin Luther King)
> >
> >the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely. propping up
> >israel and various arab regimes and constantly involving ourselves in
> >efforts to create "lasting peace in the middle east" has been a colossal
> >waste of time and money.
>
>
> Tell it to Bush !!!

There were certain Americans in the early 40ies who hoped Hitler would
finish the Jews once and for all. Their hopes were dashed.
Won't be different this time ....

Max



31 Jul 2006 09:05:44
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >stephenj wrote:
> >> Calimero wrote:
> >> > Manco wrote:
> >>
> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> >> > it."
> >> > (Martin Luther King)
> >>
> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >
> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>
>
> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>
> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>
> it failed.

LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
you'll always be the loser ....


>
> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.

Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.

>
> the american people are too busy to care.
>
> p.s.
>
> Bush has no real foreign policy. never has and never will.

He has. He is a revolutionary by trying to spread democracy. Which
causes a lot of enemies of course, understandably.

Max



31 Jul 2006 09:07:45
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


stephenj wrote:
> Wayne wrote:
> > stephenj wrote:
> >
> >>Calimero wrote:
> >>
> >>>Manco wrote:
> >>
> >>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> >>>it."
> >>>(Martin Luther King)
> >>
> >>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >
> >
> > that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy.
>
> it would be a repudiation of US policy in that region for at least the
> past 50 yrs.


It would result in a Islamist state from Morocco to Irak. Armed with
the A-bomb.
London, Berlin, L.A. and NYC would pay the price someday ....

Max



31 Jul 2006 12:28:24
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>Wayne wrote:
>>
>>>stephenj wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Calimero wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Manco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>>>it."
>>>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>>>
>>>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>>
>>>
>>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy.
>>
>>it would be a repudiation of US policy in that region for at least the
>>past 50 yrs.

> It would result in a Islamist state from Morocco to Irak.

if that's what the people over there want, it's not my business.

> Armed with
> the A-bomb.
> London, Berlin, L.A. and NYC would pay the price someday ....

not sure. there's probably a positive correlation between our meddling
there and some arabs wanting to use an a-bomb on LA.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


31 Jul 2006 21:14:10
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > a écrit dans le message de news:
1154362065.532078.304230@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> stephenj wrote:
>> Wayne wrote:
>> > stephenj wrote:
>> >
>> >>Calimero wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Manco wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>> >>>it."
>> >>>(Martin Luther King)
>> >>
>> >>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >
>> >
>> > that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy.
>>
>> it would be a repudiation of US policy in that region for at least the
>> past 50 yrs.
>
>
> It would result in a Islamist state from Morocco to Irak. Armed with
> the A-bomb.
> London, Berlin, L.A. and NYC would pay the price someday ....
>
> Max
>
Your way, making people afraid reminds me what Bush and Blair said before
attacking Iraq. Bush said Saddam has a huge quantity of weapons of mass
destruction. Blair said Saddam has weapons that can reach London. We all
know what was the result.

About the A-bomb, Israel has it already not the Arabs.

Qana children reminds me Jews children killed by Nazi, Israel replaces the
Nazi now!




31 Jul 2006 13:03:20
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Good post. The only difference may be that apartheid was way less
oppressive than the brutal, bloody Zionist war of occupation. Israelis
are intent on ethnic cleansing and genocide of Arabs beginning with the
Palestinians whose land they've stolen already.


jingus wrote:
> Manco wrote:
> > When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >
>
> it's an election year in the united states so it won't be this year.
>
> my opinion of the racist zionist regime is that they are, in many ways,
> like their former allies the former apartheid regime in south africa:
>
> - the zionist regime seeks to establish a bogus palestinian
> "homeland" that will be dependent on the zionist regime;
>
> - the zionist regime is building an apartheid wall to steal
> even more palestinian land than they have already stolen
> (you don't even have to go back to 1947, 1967 will do) and
> to ensure cantonization of the bogus palestinian "homeland"
> so that it is not a contiguous land area. among the
> attrocities (beyond those which even the corporate media
> in the united states can't prevent from being seen by the
> public) is the theft of water resources, so the bogus
> palestinian homeland will not only be noncontiguous, and
> economically dependent on the racist zionist regime, but
> they will also not even control water resources in the
> region;
>
> - the zionist regime forces a breakup of palestinian families
> living in israel by refusing to allow husbands and wives to
> live together;
>
> - the racist zionist regime has laws such that an israeli jew
> who marries a palestinian loses israli citizenship.
>
> if you listen to some of the arguments made by american politicians to
> justify support of the racist zionist regime, and substitute the word
> "communism" for each instance where they use the word "terrorism" you
> would see that the language that they are using is very similar to that
> used in the past to justify support of the apartheid regime in south
> africa.
>
> i think that the current situation in palestine/israel is similar to the
> situation that existed about 40 years ago in apartheid south afica. at
> the time, many (if not most) believed that apartheid would be perpetual.
>
> i doubt that we will have to wait 40 more years for justice in the
> middle east - something will give one way or the other.



31 Jul 2006 15:15:06
Heinrich Galland
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

In article <a9vrc21phrcn1knv496pjn8e4qelg6ra4g@4ax.com >, Dave Hazelwood
<the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com > wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >stephenj wrote:
> >> Calimero wrote:
> >> > Manco wrote:
> >>
> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> >> > it."
> >> > (Martin Luther King)
> >>
> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >
> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>
>
> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>
> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>
> it failed.
>
> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>
> the american people are too busy to care.
>
> p.s.
>
> Bush has no real foreign policy. never has and never will.


Can you name any President that has had a real foreign policy. The
last I remember was Wilson, and then only in the first term!!


31 Jul 2006 15:42:28
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Heinrich Galland wrote:
> In article <a9vrc21phrcn1knv496pjn8e4qelg6ra4g@4ax.com>, Dave Hazelwood
> <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
> > On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >stephenj wrote:
> > >> Calimero wrote:
> > >> > Manco wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> > >> > it."
> > >> > (Martin Luther King)
> > >>
> > >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> > >
> > >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> > >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
> >
> >
> > ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
> >
> > it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
> >
> > it failed.
> >
> > nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
> >
> > the american people are too busy to care.
> >
> > p.s.
> >
> > Bush has no real foreign policy. never has and never will.
>
>
> Can you name any President that has had a real foreign policy. The
> last I remember was Wilson, and then only in the first term!!


Nixon.


Max



31 Jul 2006 15:43:55
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


bbbbbbe2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> Good post. The only difference may be that apartheid was way less
> oppressive than the brutal, bloody Zionist war of occupation. Israelis
> are intent on ethnic cleansing and genocide of Arabs beginning with the
> Palestinians whose land they've stolen already.


"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek
new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new
masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!
...
When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
it."
(Martin Luther King)



31 Jul 2006 17:52:58
Darkfalz
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Wayne wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> > Calimero wrote:
> > > Manco wrote:
> >
> > > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> > > it."
> > > (Martin Luther King)
> >
> > the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>
> that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?

Israel attacked Gaza and Lebanon for decmoractically electing people
they don't like.

So Israel is waging a war on arab democracy.



31 Jul 2006 17:56:21
Fan
Re: Nazi Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> bbbbbbe2000@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Good post. The only difference may be that apartheid was way less
> > oppressive than the brutal, bloody Zionist war of occupation. Israelis
> > are intent on ethnic cleansing and genocide of Arabs beginning with the
> > Palestinians whose land they've stolen already.
>
>
> "The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
> times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
> of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly seek
> new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the new
> masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just 'anti-Zionist'!
> ...
> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> it."
> (Martin Luther King)

The JewNazi murders your children, blows up your home and steals your
land and when you object - you are an anti-Semite.

Is it any wonder that more and more people despise these heartless baby
killers?



01 Aug 2006 01:45:03
olushola
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

> it's not about helping the people of the region it's about oil

and don't forget about water which is far more important than oil




01 Aug 2006 01:51:23
olushola
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about it."
> (Martin Luther King)

Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
bust the American apartheid system.

I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of purpose. They have transformed a desert into
an oasis and built a modern infrastructure. What I don't admire is how they have allowed the Zionists (aka
neocons/neonazi) to hijack their future. They got some very bad kharma to deal with. I hope they can wake up and
begin to use their powere and influence in a "righteous" manner.






01 Aug 2006 01:43:13
olushola
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

> Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>

This is not true. The number of deaths from the sanctions and the first gulf war far exceeded what Saddam did. Also
the impact of the DUI on the environment is something else to consider. What do you think America would do if a
group within America rose up to wage war to topple the Bush regime? The Shiites did that (persuaded by Bush), so
all their blood is on Bush's hand. Now Bush understands exactly what Saddam was up against from these Iranian
allies. Iraq was one of the most progressive Arab nations where women enjoyed freedoms, and where the whisky and
the sexy was available. Saddam just did not want that Islamic stuff in his country. But guess what, Bush has to
deal with it now.




01 Aug 2006 13:35:31
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote in message
news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>> >> > about
>> >> > it."
>> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >>
>> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >
>> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>>
>>
>> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>>
>> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>>
>> it failed.
>
> LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
> Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
> you'll always be the loser ....
>
>
>>
>> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>
> Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.

complete lies.

How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
NIL
How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?
NIL

Get you facts right.






01 Aug 2006 13:30:14
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:51:23 GMT, "olushola"
<olushola@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:

>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about it."
>> (Martin Luther King)
>
>Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
>bust the American apartheid system.
>
>I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of purpose. They have transformed a desert into
>an oasis and built a modern infrastructure. What I don't admire is how they have allowed the Zionists (aka
>neocons/neonazi) to hijack their future. They got some very bad kharma to deal with. I hope they can wake up and
>begin to use their powere and influence in a "righteous" manner.
>
>
>


I agree with this. I like the Jewish people a lot and have many as
close friends but I do not like what "Israel" is doing or has done
politically.

Just as an American, I like the average American who is good at heart
while at the same time despising the current American government.

I separate governments from the governed.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


01 Aug 2006 15:20:54
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com > wrote in message
news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>
> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>
> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or Israel?
They certainly didn't make it to UK TV




01 Aug 2006 15:28:54
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com > wrote in message
news:a9vrc21phrcn1knv496pjn8e4qelg6ra4g@4ax.com...
> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>stephenj wrote:
>>> Calimero wrote:
>>> > Manco wrote:
>>>
>>> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>> > it."
>>> > (Martin Luther King)
>>>
>>> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>
>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>
>
> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>
> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>
> it failed.
>
> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>
> the american people are too busy to care.
>
> p.s.
>
> Bush has no real foreign policy. never has and never will.

Bush (and his neocon fantatics) has transformed the virtual universal
sympathy after 9/11; to now making the USA the most hated nation on the
planet.
That's some achievement in well under 5 years.
Some legacy.

The worrying thing is that some still support him, plus he has a couple more
years left in office.






01 Aug 2006 10:51:34
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


JP wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >stephenj wrote:
> >> >> Calimero wrote:
> >> >> > Manco wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
> >> >> > about
> >> >> > it."
> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
> >> >>
> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >> >
> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
> >>
> >>
> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
> >>
> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
> >>
> >> it failed.
> >
> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
> > you'll always be the loser ....
> >
> >
> >>
> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
> >
> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>
> complete lies.
>
> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
> NIL

How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?

Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:


"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
2002)


Lies of course ....


Max



01 Aug 2006 13:33:42
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> JP wrote:
>
>>"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>>news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>stephenj wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Calimero wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Manco wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>it."
>>>>>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>>>>
>>>>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>>>>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>>>>
>>>>it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>>>>
>>>>it failed.
>>>
>>>LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>>>Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>>>you'll always be the loser ....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>>>
>>>Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>>>the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>
>>complete lies.
>>
>>How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>>NIL
>
>
> How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>
> Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:

excellent post.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


01 Aug 2006 23:16:44
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On 1 Aug 2006 10:51:34 -0700, "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote:

>
>JP wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>> >> >> > about
>> >> >> > it."
>> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >> >
>> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>> >>
>> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>> >>
>> >> it failed.
>> >
>> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>> > you'll always be the loser ....
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>> >
>> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>
>> complete lies.
>>
>> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>> NIL
>
>How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>
>Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>
>
>"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>2002)
>
>
>Lies of course ....
>
>
>Max


You think Bush does not do those same things ?

Think again. Teflect on Abu Graib, Gitmo, the Renditions, his Gulags,
and his dispensing himself from the law. Couple that with the secret
spying on phone calles, etc and you have no fucking idea what he is
capable of except he smells a lot like Hitler and Stalin never mind
Saddam.


01 Aug 2006 23:19:33
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com > wrote:

>
>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>
>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>
>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or Israel?
>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>


Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.


01 Aug 2006 19:17:24
Fan
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2006 10:51:34 -0700, "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> >
> >JP wrote:
> >> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
> >> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> >> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >stephenj wrote:
> >> >> >> Calimero wrote:
> >> >> >> > Manco wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
> >> >> >> > about
> >> >> >> > it."
> >> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> >> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
> >> >>
> >> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
> >> >>
> >> >> it failed.
> >> >
> >> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
> >> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
> >> > you'll always be the loser ....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
> >> >
> >> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> >> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
> >>
> >> complete lies.
> >>
> >> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
> >> NIL
> >
> >How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
> >
> >Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
> >
> >
> >"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
> >confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
> >will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
> >her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
> >will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
> >the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
> >regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
> >comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
> >vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
> >execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
> >of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
> >This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
> >criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
> >Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
> >the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
> >rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
> >man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
> >her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
> >rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
> >employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
> >excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
> >mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
> >husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
> >used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
> >fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
> >villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
> >and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
> >POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
> >the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
> >(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
> >2002)
> >
> >
> >Lies of course ....
> >
> >
> >Max
>
>
> You think Bush does not do those same things ?

It is hard to believe the things that go on in my name. These are
difficult and trying times for Americans of conscience. Americans do
not take delight in talking about the horrible things our current
government does. We hope that these abuses and our national nightmare
will stop after the next two elections.

Dr. Steven Miles wrote a book "Oath Betrayed" about the role of medical
personal in the torture of terrorist suspects. Most of this was exposed
by US soldiers who were repulsed by these things but not a single
medical professional complained.

America sunk very low these past few years and we can thank the
JewNazis for that. Mel Gibson was right when he spoke out but he did
not have the back bone to stick with it when the JewNazi Media got
after him.



>
> Think again. Teflect on Abu Graib, Gitmo, the Renditions, his Gulags,
> and his dispensing himself from the law. Couple that with the secret
> spying on phone calles, etc and you have no fucking idea what he is
> capable of except he smells a lot like Hitler and Stalin never mind
> Saddam.



02 Aug 2006 02:51:26
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

olushola wrote:
>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about it."
>>(Martin Luther King)
>
> Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
> bust the American apartheid system.
>

plus, this was a 1960's view of zionism, which i suspect is very
different from the current view. in the 1960's, the jewish holocaust
was a more recent event, so attempts to manipulate it to justify the
zionist state had more emotional resonance.


> I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of purpose. They have transformed a desert into
> an oasis and built a modern infrastructure.
>

by the way, that transformation takes place thanks to at least $10
billion a year of *your* tax dollars. without extensive american
subsidies israel would not be viable. for this, and the hijacking of
american interests you can thank the israel lobby, most notably (but not
exclusively) AIPAC.


02 Aug 2006 02:52:24
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

olushola wrote:
>>it's not about helping the people of the region it's about oil
>
> and don't forget about water which is far more important than oil
>

we don't get water from the middle east; water is a regional issues with
no global importance.


02 Aug 2006 02:53:11
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Heinrich Galland wrote:
>
> Can you name any President that has had a real foreign policy. The
> last I remember was Wilson, and then only in the first term!!
>

wilson, who had the worst foreign policy until george w. bush.


01 Aug 2006 21:24:24
drew
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Calimero wrote:

>
> Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>
>
> "This is a regime that will do....terrible things, etcetera... (snip stuff we've heard a thousand times before)

This could all be true but let's make no mistake. You can level this
kind of charge upon any state and some of it will always be true.

You're being sold this stuff and you are swallowing it like a baby
sucking on a teat. Who the hell knows what kind of hell goes on in
jail cells everywhere on earth. I know cops in my own country and some
of them are capable of all sorts of inhuman behaviour so it probably
happens everywhere, even in the so-called free world.

You have to make people hate the enemy, no matter what. If they commit
atrocities like rape, infanticide, sadistic beatings, they will be
hated more. Is it some kind of coincidence that you get this
information when your country is at war with such demons? Think about
it.



02 Aug 2006 01:56:33
Bink B
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Fan wrote:
Americans do
> not take delight in talking about the horrible things our current
> government does. We hope that these abuses and our national nightmare
> will stop after the next two elections.

Where did the "we" come from? That's way off base.

> America sunk very low these past few years and we can thank the
> JewNazis for that. Mel Gibson was right when he spoke out but he did
> not have the back bone to stick with it when the JewNazi Media got
> after him.

What a warped sicko you must be.


02 Aug 2006 11:03:44
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote in message
news:1154454694.262646.285650@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> JP wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>> >> >> > about
>> >> >> > it."
>> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >> >
>> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>> >>
>> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>> >>
>> >> it failed.
>> >
>> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>> > you'll always be the loser ....
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>> >
>> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>
>> complete lies.
>>
>> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>> NIL
>
> How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>
> Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>
>
> "This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
> confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
> will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
> her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
> will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
> the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
> regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
> comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
> vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
> execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
> of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
> This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
> criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
> Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
> the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
> rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
> man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
> her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
> rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
> employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
> excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
> mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
> husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
> used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
> fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
> villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
> and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
> POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
> the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
> (Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
> 2002)
>
>
> Lies of course ....
>
No just totally irrelvant .
The pretext for invasion of Iraq was a built on an utterly false premise.
But it is a typical ploy used by many to justify the unjustifable.
Too wrongs never make a right.



> Max
Translation of your answer
You cannot or refuse to answer the questions I posed.
I'll try again
How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?

So do you now accept that the invasion created the terrorists?

I'll give you another question.

Since you know want to agrue that human rights are a legitamiate basis for
illegal invasion, Do Allied forces go into every country where there are
human rights abuses?If they did they, would end up invading themselves.

Ask yourself the wider question why invade Iraq and not Rwanda?

Some of us can see between the lies, smokescreen and mirrors, of Bush and
poodle Blair.




02 Aug 2006 10:08:31
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:03:44 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com > wrote:

>
>"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>news:1154454694.262646.285650@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> JP wrote:
>>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>>> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >stephenj wrote:
>>> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>>> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>>> >> >> > about
>>> >> >> > it."
>>> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>>> >>
>>> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>>> >>
>>> >> it failed.
>>> >
>>> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>>> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>>> > you'll always be the loser ....
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>>> >
>>> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>>> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>>
>>> complete lies.
>>>
>>> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>>> NIL
>>
>> How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>>
>> Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>>
>>
>> "This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>> confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>> will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>> her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>> will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>> the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>> regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>> comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>> vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>> execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>> of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>> This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>> criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>> Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>> the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>> rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>> man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>> her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>> rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>> employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>> excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>> mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>> husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>> used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>> fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>> villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>> and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>> POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>> the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>> (Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>> 2002)
>>
>>
>> Lies of course ....
>>
>No just totally irrelvant .
>The pretext for invasion of Iraq was a built on an utterly false premise.
>But it is a typical ploy used by many to justify the unjustifable.
>Too wrongs never make a right.
>
>
>
>> Max
>Translation of your answer
>You cannot or refuse to answer the questions I posed.
>I'll try again
>How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?
>
>So do you now accept that the invasion created the terrorists?
>
>I'll give you another question.
>
>Since you know want to agrue that human rights are a legitamiate basis for
>illegal invasion, Do Allied forces go into every country where there are
>human rights abuses?If they did they, would end up invading themselves.
>
>Ask yourself the wider question why invade Iraq and not Rwanda?
>
>Some of us can see between the lies, smokescreen and mirrors, of Bush and
>poodle Blair.
>


amen


02 Aug 2006 11:30:06
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com > wrote in message
news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>>
>>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>>
>>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
>>Israel?
>>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>>
>
>
> Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
> globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
> pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.

Yes I agree.
The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.

You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
organisations as Terrorists.
Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out of
an opposition to an invasion.
They should be called a resistance organisation.

Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
uprising, -terrorists.
Again how many of these were there before the illegal invasion.
Bush has created a whole wave of anti-american feeling, with his dumb
foreign policy.




02 Aug 2006 13:27:08
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"JP" <noone@noone.com > a écrit dans le message de news:
L8edneP7zpeJ_lLZRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
>
> "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
> news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>
>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>
>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
> I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
> Israel?
> They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>
I ask if those killed children were Israelis, what would the media do or
show or comment???




02 Aug 2006 12:36:34
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:27:08 +0200, "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com > wrote:

>
>"JP" <noone@noone.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>L8edneP7zpeJ_lLZRVnyrQ@pipex.net...
>>
>> "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>> news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>>
>>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>>
>>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>> I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
>> Israel?
>> They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>>
>I ask if those killed children were Israelis, what would the media do or
>show or comment???
>

They would scream MURDER !!!!

Whether you are a terrorist or a freedom fighter depends on what side
you are on and what cause you support. NOT what you do.

To many, Bush is a terrorist, a torturer, a man out to "exterminate" a
Religion....i.e. Muslims. Well, unless they conform and allow US
companies to rape and dominate their economy that is.

Bush is just another Adolf who happens to have the upper hand at the
moment.

It won't last.


02 Aug 2006 08:28:58
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


JP wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:1154454694.262646.285650@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > JP wrote:
> >> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
> >> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> >> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >stephenj wrote:
> >> >> >> Calimero wrote:
> >> >> >> > Manco wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
> >> >> >> > about
> >> >> >> > it."
> >> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
> >> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
> >> >>
> >> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
> >> >>
> >> >> it failed.
> >> >
> >> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
> >> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
> >> > you'll always be the loser ....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
> >> >
> >> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> >> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
> >>
> >> complete lies.
> >>
> >> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
> >> NIL
> >
> > How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
> >
> > Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
> >
> >
> > "This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
> > confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
> > will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
> > her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
> > will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
> > the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
> > regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
> > comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
> > vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
> > execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
> > of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
> > This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
> > criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
> > Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
> > the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
> > rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
> > man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
> > her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
> > rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
> > employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
> > excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
> > mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
> > husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
> > used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
> > fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
> > villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
> > and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
> > POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
> > the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
> > (Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
> > 2002)
> >
> >
> > Lies of course ....
> >
> No just totally irrelvant .


Says who?


> The pretext for invasion of Iraq was a built on an utterly false premise.


There were a lot of reasons for the invasion. With "false premise" do
you mean?

> But it is a typical ploy used by many to justify the unjustifable.


To topple a butcher regime like Saddam's is "unjustifiable"?
Please elaborate ....


> Too wrongs never make a right.


Erm, which was the "second" wrong (Saddam being the first)?

>
>
>
> > Max
> Translation of your answer
> You cannot or refuse to answer the questions I posed.

Of course I can.

> I'll try again
> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?

Quite a lot.
The secret police and the military killed about 1 million Iraqis (not
even counting all the Iranians and Kuwaitis).

> How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?

About 1 million.

>
> So do you now accept that the invasion created the terrorists?


Only some Islamist zealots. The huge Saddamist faction existed already
before the invasion - they were Saddams secret police and military.


>
> I'll give you another question.

Bring it on!

>
> Since you know want to agrue that human rights are a legitamiate basis for
> illegal invasion,

What do you mean by "illegal"?

> Do Allied forces go into every country where there are
> human rights abuses?

Of course not. Sometimes the human right abuses are minor one.
Sometimes it is too dangerous to invade. Sometimes there is no
strategic interest.
So we have to make a priority list.


> If they did they, would end up invading themselves.

Why this?

>
> Ask yourself the wider question why invade Iraq and not Rwanda?


I would have advocated an Rwanda invasion. Don't know why Clinton
didn't do it. Busy getting his cock sucked maybe?
But perhaps lack of strategic interest.List of priorities.
>
> Some of us can see between the lies, smokescreen and mirrors, of Bush and
> poodle Blair.

I will never understand the moral fabric of someone who wished Saddam
had still his job.
Never ever.
Sorry.

Max



02 Aug 2006 08:32:57
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


JP wrote:
> "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
> >>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
> >>>
> >>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a =E9crit dans le message de new=
s:
> >>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
> >>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >>>>
> >>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> >>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
> >>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
> >>Israel?
> >>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
> >>
> >
> >
> > Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
> > globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
> > pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
>
> Yes I agree.
> The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
>
> You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
> organisations as Terrorists.
> Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out of
> an opposition to an invasion.
> They should be called a resistance organisation.

Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
"terrorism".
Nothing else.

>
> Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
> uprising, -terrorists.

Blowing up by-standers at a market place is "terrorism".
What is so difficult to understand there, asshole?

Max



02 Aug 2006 14:57:26
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> JP wrote:

> Blowing up by-standers at a market place is "terrorism".

no doubt.

but don't let motivations trump outcomes. i'd rather be an israeli
civilian targetted with a missile by hezbollah that misses me by 10
miles than a lebanese civilian blasted into 100 pieces by an israeli
missile that was targetted at a military installation but hit me by mistake.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


02 Aug 2006 13:29:46
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


stephenj wrote:
> Calimero wrote:
> > JP wrote:
>
> > Blowing up by-standers at a market place is "terrorism".
>
> no doubt.
>
> but don't let motivations trump outcomes. i'd rather be an israeli
> civilian targetted with a missile by hezbollah that misses me by 10
> miles than ...

... a car crash dead?

Max



02 Aug 2006 22:42:19
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > a écrit dans le message de news:
1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

JP wrote:
> "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
> >>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
> >>>
> >>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> >>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
> >>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> >>>>
> >>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> >>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
> >>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
> >>Israel?
> >>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
> >>
> >
> >
> > Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
> > globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
> > pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
>
> Yes I agree.
> The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
>
> You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
> organisations as Terrorists.
> Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out of
> an opposition to an invasion.
> They should be called a resistance organisation.

> Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
> "terrorism".
> Nothing else.


Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than soldiers?

Israel is occupier and they are occupied. All Arab countries are ready to
sign peace with Israel if they get back THEIR occupied land, but Israel
prefers land.

Israel state is a TERRORIST state!!




02 Aug 2006 14:11:00
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


RB wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a =E9crit dans le message de news:
> 1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> JP wrote:
> > "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> > news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
> > > On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
> > >>>
> > >>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a =E9crit dans le message de n=
ews:
> > >>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
> > >>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> > >>>>
> > >>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> > >>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
> > >>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
> > >>Israel?
> > >>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
> > > globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
> > > pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
> >
> > Yes I agree.
> > The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
> >
> > You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
> > organisations as Terrorists.
> > Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out=
of
> > an opposition to an invasion.
> > They should be called a resistance organisation.
>
> > Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
> > "terrorism".
> > Nothing else.
>
>
> Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
> themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than soldie=
rs?
>
> Israel is occupier and they are occupied.

Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.

> All Arab countries are ready to
> sign peace with Israel ...

Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are not. They want to throw the Jews
into the sea.
They say so unequivocally.

Hitler said the same in "Mein Kampf". Not many believed him .....

Max



02 Aug 2006 22:22:35
olushola
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Always follow the money as the results are seldom wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/e6lhr






02 Aug 2006 22:24:21
olushola
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

> Whether you are a terrorist or a freedom fighter depends on what side
> you are on and what cause you support. NOT what you do.
>

It depends on your military and economic capability.




03 Aug 2006 00:52:38
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > a écrit dans le message de news:
1154553060.843199.294540@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

RB wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> JP wrote:
> > "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
> > news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
> > > On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
> > >>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
> > >>>
> > >>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de
> > >>> news:
> > >>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
> > >>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
> > >>>>
> > >>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
> > >>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
> > >>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
> > >>Israel?
> > >>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
> > > globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
> > > pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
> >
> > Yes I agree.
> > The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
> >
> > You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
> > organisations as Terrorists.
> > Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out
> > of
> > an opposition to an invasion.
> > They should be called a resistance organisation.
>
> > Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
> > "terrorism".
> > Nothing else.
>
>
> Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
> themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than
> soldiers?
>
> Israel is occupier and they are occupied.

Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.

> All Arab countries are ready to
> sign peace with Israel ...

> Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are not. They want to throw the Jews
> into the sea.

Hezbollah and Hamas are not countries, they are created by Israel as a
result of the occupation. Syria was very close to sign peace with Israel
before assassinating Rabin by an extremist Jew. Iran is not an Arabic
country and has no borders with Israel.

"Throwing Jews into the sea" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!

Peace is possible and can be successful, we have already seen the case with
Egypt and Jordan.

During the period of negotiations between Arafat and Rabin arranged by
Clinton, there was no terrorism because there was a little hope for the
Palestinians to have a little state.

Israel needs a strong leader who dares to accept giving land for peace, the
only possible formula, as Rabin was.

Shamir, Sharon, and the new Olmert (same shit) are terrorists, Arabs and
Israelis have no peace with them.





02 Aug 2006 18:53:43
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>Calimero wrote:
>>
>>>JP wrote:
>>
>>>Blowing up by-standers at a market place is "terrorism".
>>
>>no doubt.
>>
>>but don't let motivations trump outcomes. i'd rather be an israeli
>>civilian targetted with a missile by hezbollah that misses me by 10
>>miles than ...
>
>
> ... a car crash dead?

that too.

--
Fraulein forehand, undone by Seles's ability to hit winners fore and aft
at the German Open, was espied at Roland Garros using a two-fisted backhand
presumably,to keep up in the arms race. In the head war between the
two young women, Seles may have won the final then and there.

- Sports Illustrated, May 1990


02 Aug 2006 17:10:51
Habib
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


RB wrote:
> > Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
> > themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than
> > soldiers?

Yes. They have the option of sending their suicide bombers at Israeli
military installations and representatives. They don't. They send them
to pizzerias and discotecs. Give them F16s and, judging by all past
evidence, they will use them to raze suburbuan neighborhoods, not army
bases.

> > Israel is occupier and they are occupied.

Through their own actions.


> Hezbollah and Hamas are not countries,

You're right, but, at least with the former, they are supported by, and
participate in, the government. Inexcusable.

> they are created by Israel as a
> result of the occupation. Syria was very close to sign peace with Israel
> before assassinating Rabin by an extremist Jew. Iran is not an Arabic
> country and has no borders with Israel.

Iran isn't Arabic, but it's still pretty Islamic, and their leadership
at the moment is just this side of crazy.

> "Throwing Jews into the sea" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!

It's only old music to people unfamiliar with the conflict, who don't
realize that this old music is still being repeated by new instruments.

> Peace is possible and can be successful, we have already seen the case with
> Egypt and Jordan.

Egypt and Jordan cracked down heavily on extremist groups, if Syria and
Lebanon do the same they'll be able to sign a peace treaty and become
friends, too. Up to this point, however, neither of them has done this.
Lebanon even has a UN resolution stating it must carry out just such
actions, and it still hasn't lifted a finger.

> During the period of negotiations between Arafat and Rabin arranged by
> Clinton, there was no terrorism because there was a little hope for the
> Palestinians to have a little state.

There was still some, but yes, you are right in that it was relatively
peaceful. A similar thing can be said for negotiations in the late 90s.
Then Arafat went apeshit, rejected a number of proposals and has his
people start the 2nd Intifadah - which is when the proverbial excrement
made contact with the fan.

> Israel needs a strong leader who dares to accept giving land for peace, the
> only possible formula, as Rabin was.
>
> Shamir, Sharon, and the new Olmert (same shit) are terrorists, Arabs and
> Israelis have no peace with them.

Sharon gave them land. Have you not kept up with current events?



02 Aug 2006 17:28:39
Habib
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


JP wrote:
> Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
> uprising, -terrorists.

Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
nothing if not terrorism.



03 Aug 2006 01:06:21
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:24:21 GMT, "olushola"
<olushola@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:

>> Whether you are a terrorist or a freedom fighter depends on what side
>> you are on and what cause you support. NOT what you do.
>>
>
>It depends on your military and economic capability.
>


correct.


02 Aug 2006 20:21:17
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Habib wrote:
> JP wrote:
>
>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>uprising, -terrorists.
>
>
> Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
> about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
> there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
> nothing if not terrorism.

well said.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


03 Aug 2006 02:32:47
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net > wrote:

>Habib wrote:
>> JP wrote:
>>
>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>
>>
>> Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>> about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>> there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>> nothing if not terrorism.
>
>well said.


They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
Israel.

Remember how dismayed the Redcoats were when American
revolutionaries hid and shot at them from behind trees ? Unfair !

I am sure if the USA was "invaded" and your neighbor was aiding
and abetting the invader you would shoot him as well. If not you
would be a "traitor" right ?


02 Aug 2006 23:41:24
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Habib wrote:
>>
>>>JP wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>>
>>>
>>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>nothing if not terrorism.
>>
>>well said.
>
>
>
> They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
> attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
> teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
> Israel.

true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
right to attack civilians. it doesn't.

> Remember how dismayed the Redcoats were when American
> revolutionaries hid and shot at them from behind trees ? Unfair !

who is saying it's "unfair" to use guerilla tactics against the israeli
military? the issue is targetting of civilians.

> I am sure if the USA was "invaded" and your neighbor was aiding
> and abetting the invader you would shoot him as well. If not you
> would be a "traitor" right ?

depends on the level of aid. if my neighbor picked up a gun and joined
the other side, i'd shoot him. if he and his wife were acting as spies,
passing info to the invaders, i'd shoot them.

but if he was fighting for the other side and his wife's "aid" took the
form of feeding him dinner like she always has, then she's a civilian
and would be off limits. otherwise, there are no civilians. if his 4 yr
old kid sends him a box of cookies that could be defined as "aiding and
abetting", etc.

granted, there is some truth in what you imply. "civilians" do indeed
often perform vital tasks - like feeding and clothing armed combatants,
providing them with emotional and material support, etc. Yet a line
should be drawn somewhere and it's not hard to define it.

Also, iirc in israel most adults, male and female, are military
reservists until their mid-40s. so a plausible case can be made that
any israeli adult up to about age 45 is a legit military target, even if
they aren't actually mustered and are doing civilian jobs.

but the terrorists often target and kill those who can't plausibly be
classified as anything but civilians - old folks, children, etc. so
there's no escaping condemnation for those acts.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


03 Aug 2006 05:55:56
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:41:24 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net > wrote:

>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Habib wrote:
>>>
>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>>nothing if not terrorism.
>>>
>>>well said.
>>
>>
>>
>> They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
>> attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
>> teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
>> Israel.
>
>true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>right to attack civilians. it doesn't.

Who has killed more civilians in Iraq ? The freedom fighters or GW
Bush ?

Who has killed more civilians in the middle East Israel or
Hezbollah ?

I rest my case.

And, don't give me any shit about collateral damage. When you throw a
bomb off a roof and it kills innocents below you can't claim ignorance
!

>
>> Remember how dismayed the Redcoats were when American
>> revolutionaries hid and shot at them from behind trees ? Unfair !
>
>who is saying it's "unfair" to use guerilla tactics against the israeli
>military? the issue is targetting of civilians.

Oh I see if you kill 100,000 of them but are not targeting them then
its ok ? Gimme a break !

>
>> I am sure if the USA was "invaded" and your neighbor was aiding
>> and abetting the invader you would shoot him as well. If not you
>> would be a "traitor" right ?
>
>depends on the level of aid. if my neighbor picked up a gun and joined
>the other side, i'd shoot him. if he and his wife were acting as spies,
>passing info to the invaders, i'd shoot them.
>
>but if he was fighting for the other side and his wife's "aid" took the
>form of feeding him dinner like she always has, then she's a civilian
>and would be off limits. otherwise, there are no civilians. if his 4 yr
>old kid sends him a box of cookies that could be defined as "aiding and
>abetting", etc.
>
>granted, there is some truth in what you imply. "civilians" do indeed
>often perform vital tasks - like feeding and clothing armed combatants,
>providing them with emotional and material support, etc. Yet a line
>should be drawn somewhere and it's not hard to define it.
>
>Also, iirc in israel most adults, male and female, are military
>reservists until their mid-40s. so a plausible case can be made that
>any israeli adult up to about age 45 is a legit military target, even if
>they aren't actually mustered and are doing civilian jobs.
>
>but the terrorists often target and kill those who can't plausibly be
>classified as anything but civilians - old folks, children, etc. so
>there's no escaping condemnation for those acts.


Then the USA would never shoot down an airliner with civilians
if it's target was the White House ?

Oh wait, we did that before in the Gulf !

Oh wait it was an "Iranian" airliner flying in broad daylight on
schedule in known commercial airspace.

Nevermind it was shot down by the most sophisticated warship in the US
navy. Hell, they can't tell the difference between an F-14 and a
Airbus !

Oh wait, Iranian's are not civilians they are all terrorists I forgot.

Oh wait wait, we called that a tragic accident ! Even after we called
the Russians "barbaric" for shooting down a civilian airliner in the
dead of night flying with no lights over a top secret military base
saying there is NEVER EVER a reason to shoot down a civilian airliner.

Now, we would do it ourselves in a heartbeat.

Times change. Civilians are now tools of war.

And we are no different than those we call terrorists when it comes to
killing them. In fact, we are better at it and the only concern we
show about it are "words". "Words" made to pacify the public but
in reality we simply don't give a shit.

Then, there was the USS Liberty....don't get me started.


02 Aug 2006 22:56:14
Bink B
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

RB wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
> 1154553060.843199.294540@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> RB wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> 1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> JP wrote:
>>> "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>> news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>>>>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de
>>>>>> news:
>>>>>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>>>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>>>>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>>>>> I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
>>>>> Israel?
>>>>> They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
>>>> globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
>>>> pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
>>> Yes I agree.
>>> The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
>>>
>>> You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
>>> organisations as Terrorists.
>>> Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out
>>> of
>>> an opposition to an invasion.
>>> They should be called a resistance organisation.
>>> Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
>>> "terrorism".
>>> Nothing else.
>>
>> Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
>> themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than
>> soldiers?
>>
>> Israel is occupier and they are occupied.
>
> Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
> Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.
>
>> All Arab countries are ready to
>> sign peace with Israel ...
>
>> Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are not. They want to throw the Jews
>> into the sea.
>
> Hezbollah and Hamas are not countries, they are created by Israel as a
> result of the occupation. Syria was very close to sign peace with Israel
> before assassinating Rabin by an extremist Jew. Iran is not an Arabic
> country and has no borders with Israel.
>
> "Throwing Jews into the sea" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
>
> Peace is possible and can be successful, we have already seen the case with
> Egypt and Jordan.
>
> During the period of negotiations between Arafat and Rabin arranged by
> Clinton, there was no terrorism because there was a little hope for the
> Palestinians to have a little state.
>
> Israel needs a strong leader who dares to accept giving land for peace, the
> only possible formula, as Rabin was.

How many times does Israel have to give up land? They left Lebanon and
Gaza and they offered almost all the West Bank. If every country that
ever won a war gave up all the land they garnered the world map would
look awfully strange. I say Jordan and Egypt should offer some land for
the Palestinians? They can afford a lot more of it than Israel.

"Land For Peace" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
B


03 Aug 2006 06:07:17
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:56:14 -0700, Bink B <dungwad@disney.com > wrote:

>RB wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> 1154553060.843199.294540@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> RB wrote:
>>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> 1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> JP wrote:
>>>> "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>>>>>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de
>>>>>>> news:
>>>>>>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>>>>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>>>>>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>>>>>> I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
>>>>>> Israel?
>>>>>> They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
>>>>> globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
>>>>> pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
>>>> Yes I agree.
>>>> The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
>>>>
>>>> You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
>>>> organisations as Terrorists.
>>>> Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out
>>>> of
>>>> an opposition to an invasion.
>>>> They should be called a resistance organisation.
>>>> Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
>>>> "terrorism".
>>>> Nothing else.
>>>
>>> Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
>>> themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than
>>> soldiers?
>>>
>>> Israel is occupier and they are occupied.
>>
>> Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
>> Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.
>>
>>> All Arab countries are ready to
>>> sign peace with Israel ...
>>
>>> Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are not. They want to throw the Jews
>>> into the sea.
>>
>> Hezbollah and Hamas are not countries, they are created by Israel as a
>> result of the occupation. Syria was very close to sign peace with Israel
>> before assassinating Rabin by an extremist Jew. Iran is not an Arabic
>> country and has no borders with Israel.
>>
>> "Throwing Jews into the sea" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
>>
>> Peace is possible and can be successful, we have already seen the case with
>> Egypt and Jordan.
>>
>> During the period of negotiations between Arafat and Rabin arranged by
>> Clinton, there was no terrorism because there was a little hope for the
>> Palestinians to have a little state.
>>
>> Israel needs a strong leader who dares to accept giving land for peace, the
>> only possible formula, as Rabin was.
>
>How many times does Israel have to give up land? They left Lebanon and
>Gaza and they offered almost all the West Bank. If every country that
>ever won a war gave up all the land they garnered the world map would
>look awfully strange. I say Jordan and Egypt should offer some land for
>the Palestinians? They can afford a lot more of it than Israel.
>
>"Land For Peace" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
>B


I suspect the more land Jordan/Egypt gave them the more Israel would
then find excuses to expropriate it and build settlements on it.

Security you know !


02 Aug 2006 23:01:22
Bink B
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

stephenj wrote:
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Habib wrote:
>>>
>>>> JP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>> uprising, -terrorists.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>> about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>> there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>> nothing if not terrorism.
>>>
>>> well said.
>>
>>
>>
>> They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
>> attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
>> teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
>> Israel.
>
> true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
> weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
> right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>
>> Remember how dismayed the Redcoats were when American
>> revolutionaries hid and shot at them from behind trees ? Unfair !
>
> who is saying it's "unfair" to use guerilla tactics against the israeli
> military? the issue is targetting of civilians.
>
>> I am sure if the USA was "invaded" and your neighbor was aiding
>> and abetting the invader you would shoot him as well. If not you
>> would be a "traitor" right ?
>
> depends on the level of aid. if my neighbor picked up a gun and joined
> the other side, i'd shoot him. if he and his wife were acting as spies,
> passing info to the invaders, i'd shoot them.
>
> but if he was fighting for the other side and his wife's "aid" took the
> form of feeding him dinner like she always has, then she's a civilian
> and would be off limits. otherwise, there are no civilians. if his 4 yr
> old kid sends him a box of cookies that could be defined as "aiding and
> abetting", etc.
>
> granted, there is some truth in what you imply. "civilians" do indeed
> often perform vital tasks - like feeding and clothing armed combatants,
> providing them with emotional and material support, etc. Yet a line
> should be drawn somewhere and it's not hard to define it.
>
> Also, iirc in israel most adults, male and female, are military
> reservists until their mid-40s. so a plausible case can be made that
> any israeli adult up to about age 45 is a legit military target, even if
> they aren't actually mustered and are doing civilian jobs.

I believe in California you are a member of the California Militia until
you are 45... but only males.
R


03 Aug 2006 00:35:19
Bink B
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 22:56:14 -0700, Bink B <dungwad@disney.com> wrote:
>
>> RB wrote:
>>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>> 1154553060.843199.294540@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> RB wrote:
>>>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:
>>>> 1154532777.379563.282060@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>> JP wrote:
>>>>> "Dave Hazelwood" <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:r7ovc2983ntp6a1sgpb8vvmvephcvo0k0h@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>>>>>>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de
>>>>>>>> news:
>>>>>>>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>>>>>>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>>>>>>>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>>>>>>> I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or
>>>>>>> Israel?
>>>>>>> They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. The Rupert Murdoch's of the world who now own the "free press"
>>>>>> globally (Laws were changed to allow it by the way) are in Bush's
>>>>>> pocket and visa versa. A real threat to truth and our liberty.
>>>>> Yes I agree.
>>>>> The worrying thing is how many people are so manipulated by the media.
>>>>>
>>>>> You've only got to look at how quickly the media/politicians promotes
>>>>> organisations as Terrorists.
>>>>> Just look at the creation and history of Hezbollah. It was created out
>>>>> of
>>>>> an opposition to an invasion.
>>>>> They should be called a resistance organisation.
>>>>> Blowing up school buses and discos never ever is "resistance". It's
>>>>> "terrorism".
>>>>> Nothing else.
>>>> Give them F16, they will not Blow up schools buses, they resist scarifying
>>>> themselves. Do you think they prefer killing civilians rather than
>>>> soldiers?
>>>>
>>>> Israel is occupier and they are occupied.
>>> Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
>>> Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.
>>>
>>>> All Arab countries are ready to
>>>> sign peace with Israel ...
>>>> Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran are not. They want to throw the Jews
>>>> into the sea.
>>> Hezbollah and Hamas are not countries, they are created by Israel as a
>>> result of the occupation. Syria was very close to sign peace with Israel
>>> before assassinating Rabin by an extremist Jew. Iran is not an Arabic
>>> country and has no borders with Israel.
>>>
>>> "Throwing Jews into the sea" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
>>>
>>> Peace is possible and can be successful, we have already seen the case with
>>> Egypt and Jordan.
>>>
>>> During the period of negotiations between Arafat and Rabin arranged by
>>> Clinton, there was no terrorism because there was a little hope for the
>>> Palestinians to have a little state.
>>>
>>> Israel needs a strong leader who dares to accept giving land for peace, the
>>> only possible formula, as Rabin was.
>> How many times does Israel have to give up land? They left Lebanon and
>> Gaza and they offered almost all the West Bank. If every country that
>> ever won a war gave up all the land they garnered the world map would
>> look awfully strange. I say Jordan and Egypt should offer some land for
>> the Palestinians? They can afford a lot more of it than Israel.
>>
>> "Land For Peace" is an old music, try to find some thing new!!!
>> B
>
>
> I suspect the more land Jordan/Egypt gave them the more Israel would
> then find excuses to expropriate it and build settlements on it.

Jordan and Egypt haven't given Israel a reason to, but I'm postive the
Palestinians surely would.

It would be interesting to see if Jordan and Egypt would do their part
of the land give-away.
B


03 Aug 2006 09:29:50
JP
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote in message
news:1154532538.164843.194390@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
> JP wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> news:1154454694.262646.285650@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > JP wrote:
>> >> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> >> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> >> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no
>> >> >> >> > mistake
>> >> >> >> > about
>> >> >> >> > it."
>> >> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> it failed.
>> >> >
>> >> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>> >> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies
>> >> > motives
>> >> > you'll always be the loser ....
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>> >> >
>> >> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> >> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>> >>
>> >> complete lies.
>> >>
>> >> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>> >> NIL
>> >
>> > How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>> >
>> > Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>> >
>> >
>> > "This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>> > confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>> > will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>> > her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>> > will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>> > the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>> > regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>> > comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>> > vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>> > execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>> > of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>> > This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>> > criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>> > Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>> > the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>> > rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>> > man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>> > her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>> > rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>> > employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>> > excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>> > mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>> > husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>> > used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>> > fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>> > villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>> > and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>> > POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>> > the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>> > (Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>> > 2002)
>> >
>> >
>> > Lies of course ....
>> >
>> No just totally irrelvant .
>
>
> Says who?
>
>
>> The pretext for invasion of Iraq was a built on an utterly false premise.
>
>
> There were a lot of reasons for the invasion. With "false premise" do
> you mean?
>
>> But it is a typical ploy used by many to justify the unjustifable.
>
>
> To topple a butcher regime like Saddam's is "unjustifiable"?
> Please elaborate ....
>
>
>> Too wrongs never make a right.
>
>
> Erm, which was the "second" wrong (Saddam being the first)?
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Max
>> Translation of your answer
>> You cannot or refuse to answer the questions I posed.
>
> Of course I can.
>
>> I'll try again
>> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>
> Quite a lot.
> The secret police and the military killed about 1 million Iraqis (not
> even counting all the Iranians and Kuwaitis).
>
Oh really.
How many is Saddam on trial for?
We found the bodies in Rwanda so we could count, so just where is ther
evidence for 5% of the population being killed?

>> How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?
>
> About 1 million.
Really.
and your evidence.
The whole of the US armed forces is 1.4 million, so I think the world may
have noticed if a million of them got killed.

Try again!

>>
>> So do you now accept that the invasion created the terrorists?
>
>
> Only some Islamist zealots. The huge Saddamist faction existed already
> before the invasion - they were Saddams secret police and military.
>
So what is the difference between the Saddam military and Israeli Military
(Who reven today are slaughtering women and children with indiscriminate
bombing), by that definition they are both terrorists?

The point I was making was that Saddams forces were not a threat to anyone
prior to invasion.
Now Bush and his misguided neocons have ignited a tinder box, which no one
knows where it will end.

>>
>> I'll give you another question.
>
> Bring it on!
>
>>
>> Since you know want to agrue that human rights are a legitamiate basis
>> for
>> illegal invasion,
>
> What do you mean by "illegal"?

As in against international law.
A concept I realise that from your lack of understanding of the war crime at
Qana is way above you.

>> Do Allied forces go into every country where there are
>> human rights abuses?
>
> Of course not. Sometimes the human right abuses are minor one.
> Sometimes it is too dangerous to invade. Sometimes there is no
> strategic interest.
> So we have to make a priority list.

Strategic interest hey!
No wonder you have the inconsitstant morals of a sewer.
So whose next to have a taste of USA type liberation?
China, North Korea, Iran,

>> If they did they, would end up invading themselves.
>
> Why this?
>
>>
>> Ask yourself the wider question why invade Iraq and not Rwanda?
>
>
> I would have advocated an Rwanda invasion. Don't know why Clinton
> didn't do it. Busy getting his cock sucked maybe?
> But perhaps lack of strategic interest.List of priorities.


>> Some of us can see between the lies, smokescreen and mirrors, of Bush and
>> poodle Blair.
>
> I will never understand the moral fabric of someone who wished Saddam
> had still his job.
> Never ever.
> Sorry.
>
> Max
>




03 Aug 2006 07:03:42
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:41:24 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Habib wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>>>nothing if not terrorism.
>>>>
>>>>well said.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
>>>attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
>>>teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
>>>Israel.
>>
>>true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>>weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>>right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>
>
> Who has killed more civilians in Iraq ?

why didn't you reply to the point made? oh wait a minute ...


03 Aug 2006 12:36:47
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 07:03:42 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net > wrote:

>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:41:24 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Habib wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>>>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>>>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>>>>nothing if not terrorism.
>>>>>
>>>>>well said.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
>>>>attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
>>>>teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
>>>>Israel.
>>>
>>>true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>>>weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>>>right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>>
>>
>> Who has killed more civilians in Iraq ?
>
>why didn't you reply to the point made? oh wait a minute ...


Ok, what gives Bush the right to kill civilians in Iraq ?

Because he decided to illegally invade the country in spite of the
people of Iraq NOT wanting him too ?

Because he "thought" they wanted him to ?

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

100,000 innocents DEAD because BUSH thought they wanted him
to kill them !

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

It is time we stayed the hell out of "other" peoples countries.

Didn't we learn that fucking lesson in Nam ?

Guess not.

Oh, I see Bushies cronies wanted the OIL.


03 Aug 2006 06:38:58
wkhedr
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

You can shoot, shoot and shoot, who cares how many you kill as long as
you stole the house from them, you can label them terrorists, people
believe you and support you and give you more weapons!!


stephenj wrote:
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> > On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Habib wrote:
> >>
> >>>JP wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
> >>>>uprising, -terrorists.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
> >>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
> >>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
> >>>nothing if not terrorism.
> >>
> >>well said.
> >
> >
> >
> > They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
> > attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
> > teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
> > Israel.
>
> true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
> weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
> right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>
> > Remember how dismayed the Redcoats were when American
> > revolutionaries hid and shot at them from behind trees ? Unfair !
>
> who is saying it's "unfair" to use guerilla tactics against the israeli
> military? the issue is targetting of civilians.
>
> > I am sure if the USA was "invaded" and your neighbor was aiding
> > and abetting the invader you would shoot him as well. If not you
> > would be a "traitor" right ?
>
> depends on the level of aid. if my neighbor picked up a gun and joined
> the other side, i'd shoot him. if he and his wife were acting as spies,
> passing info to the invaders, i'd shoot them.
>
> but if he was fighting for the other side and his wife's "aid" took the
> form of feeding him dinner like she always has, then she's a civilian
> and would be off limits. otherwise, there are no civilians. if his 4 yr
> old kid sends him a box of cookies that could be defined as "aiding and
> abetting", etc.
>
> granted, there is some truth in what you imply. "civilians" do indeed
> often perform vital tasks - like feeding and clothing armed combatants,
> providing them with emotional and material support, etc. Yet a line
> should be drawn somewhere and it's not hard to define it.
>
> Also, iirc in israel most adults, male and female, are military
> reservists until their mid-40s. so a plausible case can be made that
> any israeli adult up to about age 45 is a legit military target, even if
> they aren't actually mustered and are doing civilian jobs.
>
> but the terrorists often target and kill those who can't plausibly be
> classified as anything but civilians - old folks, children, etc. so
> there's no escaping condemnation for those acts.
>
>
> --
> "when i visited Aden before collectivization,
> all the markets were full of fish product. After
> collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."
>
> - Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official



03 Aug 2006 17:58:26
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


"wkhedr" <wkhedr@my-deja.com > a écrit dans le message de news:
1154612338.066723.99350@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> You can shoot, shoot and shoot, who cares how many you kill as long as
> you stole the house from them, you can label them terrorists, people
> believe you and support you and give you more weapons!!
>
>

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND 100% CORRECT.

Nobody dares to condemn the crimes in Lebanon. Even the UN could not condemn
the war crime in Qana. Nobody dares to criticize Israel. You can criticize
God, but not Israel. The occupier is shown by the media as the victim, and
the poor, occupied, humiliated, killed, and massacred is shown as the
terrorist.

It is very easy to understand how the media works, ANY resistance to the
Israeli occupation in the region is terrorism. Remember Mandela was
considered by the apartheid regim as terrorist, By the way Israel was a
sincere friend of the apartheid regime. Normal, they think and work the same
way.

Can people resist to the brainwash of the media, can they be free, very
difficult. We always hear from one side. All we know about Palestinians,
they are terrorist violent and kill innocent people. Do we see the images of
Palestinians children killed or the Lebanese children kill?




03 Aug 2006 11:38:26
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 07:03:42 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:41:24 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 20:21:17 -0500, stephenj <sjek@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Habib wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Look what the Israeli aoplogist on this thread calls the Iraqs
>>>>>>>>uprising, -terrorists.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Because that's what they are. They target civilians and try to bring
>>>>>>>about change through fear. If they are attacking the American soldiers
>>>>>>>there, that's one thing, but blowing up iraqi civs by the dozens is
>>>>>>>nothing if not terrorism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>well said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>They can't attack American soldiers just like the Palestinians can't
>>>>>attack Israeli soldiers so they attack civilians, Arm them to the
>>>>>teeth like we have Israel and they will then fight like the USA and
>>>>>Israel.
>>>>
>>>>true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>>>>weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>>>>right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>>>
>>>
>>>Who has killed more civilians in Iraq ?
>>
>>why didn't you reply to the point made? oh wait a minute ...

> Ok, what gives Bush the right to kill civilians in Iraq ?

You said "ok", then followed it up with more irrelevant drivel.

Address the point i made about targetting civilians or give it up.



--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


03 Aug 2006 09:54:39
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


JP wrote:
<the usual Nazi drivel >

> > I will never understand the moral fabric of someone who wished Saddam
> > had still his job.
> > Never ever.
> > Sorry.

Indeed ...

Max



03 Aug 2006 12:53:02
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!-Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew

Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew
Tim Wise, ZNet
September 5, 2001



So it's official. The U.S. has withdrawn from the World Conference on
Racism, being held in Durban, South Africa.

Though the cynical and historically observant might suspect that this
decision was merely in keeping with our longstanding unwillingness to
deal with the legacy of racism on a global scale, the official reason
is more circumscribed. Namely, the mid-conference pullout was intended
to register displeasure at various delegates who are pushing
resolutions condemning Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and Zionism
itself: the ideology of Jewish nationalism that led to the founding of
Israel in 1948. As the conference speeds towards a no doubt
controversial conclusion, perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask just
what all the fuss is about?

Although one can argue with the claim made by some that Zionism and
racism are synonymous -- especially given the amorphous definition of
"race" which makes such a position forever and always a matter of
semantics -- it is difficult to deny that Zionism, in practice if not
theory, amounts to ethnic chauvinism, colonial ethnocentrism, and
national oppression.

For saying this, I can expect to be called everything but a child of
God by many in the Jewish community. "Self-hating" will be the term of
choice for most, I suspect: the typical Pavlovian response to one who
is Jewish, as I am, and yet dares to criticize Israel or the ideology
underlying its national existence.

"Anti-Semite" will be the other label offered me, despite the fact
that Zionism has led to the oppression of Semitic peoples -- namely
the mostly Semitic Palestinians -- and is also rooted in a deep
antipathy even for Jews. Though Zionism proclaims itself a movement of
a strong and proud people, in fact it is an ideology that has been
brimming with self-hatred from the beginning. Indeed, early Zionists
believed, as a key premise of the movement, that Jews were responsible
for the oppression we had faced over the years, and that such
oppression was inevitable and impossible to overcome, thus, the need
for our own country.

Having never read the words of Theodore Herzl -- the founder of modern
Zionism -- or other Zionist leaders, most will find this claim hard to
believe. But before attacking me, perhaps they should ask who it was
that said anti-Semitism, "is an understandable reaction to Jewish
defects," or that, "each country can only absorb a limited number of
Jews, if she doesn't want disorders in her stomach. Germany has
already too many Jews."

While one might be inclined to attribute either or both statements to
Adolph Hitler, as they are surely worthy of his venomous pen, they are
actually comments made by Herzl and Chaim Weizmann, eventual president
of Israel, and -- at the time he made the second statement -- head of
the World Zionist Organization. So in the pantheon of self-hating
Jews, it appears criticism, for Zionists, should perhaps begin at
home.

Going back to my days in Hebrew school, I never understood the
dialysis-machine-like bond that most of my peers felt for Israel. On
the one hand, we were told God had given that land to our people, as
part of His covenant with Abraham. This we knew because Scripture told
us so. But this never carried much weight with me. After all, many
Christians -- with whom I had more than a passing acquaintance growing
up in the South -- were all-too-willing to point out that the
Scriptures also said (in their opinions) that I was going to hell,
Abraham notwithstanding.

As such, accepting Zionism because of what God did or didn't say
seemed dicey from the get-go. What's more, this was the same God who
ostensibly told the ancient Hebrews never to wear clothes woven with
two different fabrics, and who insisted we burn the entrails of
animals we consume on an alter to create a pleasing smell. Having been
known to sport a wrinkle-free poly-cotton blend, and having not the
fortitude to disembowel my supper and incinerate its lower intestines,
I had long since resolved to withhold judgment on what God did and
didn't want, until such time as the Almighty decided to whisper said
desires in my ear personally. The Rabbi's word wasn't going to cut it.

On the other hand, we were told we needed a homeland so as to prevent
another Holocaust. Only a strong, independent Jewish state could
provide the kind of unity and protection required of a people who had
suffered so much, and had lost six million souls to the Nazi terror.

Yet this too seemed suspect to me. After all, one could argue that
getting all the Jews together in one place -- especially a piece of
real estate as small as Palestine -- would be a Jew-hater's dream come
true. It would make finishing the job Hitler started that much easier.
Better, it seemed then and still does, to have vibrant Jewish
communities throughout the world, than to put all our dreidels in one
basket, by pulling up stakes and heading to a place where others
already lived, hoping they wouldn't mind too terribly if we kicked
them out of their homes.

In the final analysis, accepting Israel as a Jewish state for Biblical
reasons made no more sense to me than to accept a self-identified
Christian or Islamic nation: two configurations that understandably
raise fears of theocracy in the heart of any Jew. And to in-gather the
Jews to Israel for the sake of safety made no sense whatsoever. The
only logic to Zionism then, seemed to be the "logic" of raw power:
that of the settler, or colonizer. We wanted the land, and getting it
would provide an ally for European and American foreign and economic
policy. So with pressure applied and force unleashed, it became ours.

Nearly 800,000 Palestinians would be displaced so as to allow for the
creation of Israel: around 600,000 of whom, according to internal
documents of the Israeli Defense Force, were expelled forcibly from
their homes. At the time, these Palestinians, most of whose families
had been living on the land for centuries, constituted two-thirds of
the population and owned 90% of the land. Though some Zionists claim
Palestine was a largely uninhabited wilderness prior to Jewish
arrival, early settlers were far more honest. As Ahad Ha'am
acknowledged in 1891:

"We ... are used to believing that Israel is almost totally desolate.
But ... this is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult
to find fields that are not sowed."

Indeed, the large presence of Palestinians led many Zionists to openly
advocate their removal. The head of the Jewish Agency's colonization
department stated: "there is no room for both peoples together in this
country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to
neighboring countries, to transfer all of them: not one village, not
one tribe, should be left."

Herzl himself conceded that Zionism was "something colonial,"
indicating again that we were not discovering or founding anything. We
were taking it, and for reasons we would never accept from others. As
Shimon Peres -- seen as one of the most peace-loving Israeli leaders
in memory -- said in 1985: "The Bible is the decisive document in
determining the fate of our land." Such is the stuff of fanaticism,
and we would say as much were a fundamentalist Christian to make the
same statement about the fate of the U.S., or anywhere else for that
matter.

That most Jews have never examined the founding principles of this
ideology to which they cleave is unfortunate. For if they were to do
so, they might be shocked at how anti-Jewish Zionism really is. Time
and again, Zionists have even collaborated with open Jew-haters for
the sake of political power.

Consider Herzl: a man who believed Jews were to blame for
anti-Semitism, and thus, only by fleeing for Palestine could we be
safe. In The Jewish State, he wrote:

"Every nation in whose midst Jews live is, either covertly or openly,
anti-Semitic ... its immediate cause is our excessive production of
mediocre intellects, who cannot find an outlet downwards or upwards.
When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat. When we rise,
there also rises our terrible power of the purse."

He went on to say, "The Jews are carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism
into England; they have already introduced it into America." Were a
non-Jew to suggest that Jews were to blame for anti-Semitism, our
community would be rightly outraged. But the same words from the
father of Zionism pass without comment.

Worse still, early in Hitler's reign the Zionist Federation of Germany
wrote the new Chancellor, noting their willingness to "adapt our
community to these new structures" (namely, the Nuremberg Laws that
limited Jewish freedom), as they "give the Jewish minority ... its own
cultural life, its own national life."

Far from resisting Nazi genocide, some Zionists collaborated with it.
When the British devised a plan to allow thousands of German Jewish
children to enter the U.K. and be saved from the Holocaust, David
Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel's first Prime Minister balked,
explaining:

"If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in
Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by
transporting them to (Israel) then I would opt for the second
alternative."

Later, Israeli Zionists would again make alliances with anti-Jewish
extremists. In the 1970's, Israel hosted South African Prime Minister
John Vorster, and cultivated economic and military ties with the
apartheid state, even though Vorster had been locked up as a Nazi
collaborator during World War II. And Israel supplied military aid to
the Galtieri regime in Argentina, even while the Generals were known
to harbor ex-Nazis in the country, and had targeted Argentine Jews for
torture and death.

Indeed, the argument that Zionism is racism finds some support in
statements of Zionists themselves, many of whom have long concurred
with the Hitlerian doctrine that Judaism is a racial identity as much
as a religious and cultural one. In 1934, German Zionist Joachim
Prinz, who would later head the American Jewish Congress, noted:

"We want assimilation to be replaced by a new law: the declaration of
belonging to the Jewish nation and Jewish race. A state built upon the
principle of the purity of nation and race can only be honored and
respected by a Jew who declares his belonging to his own kind."

Years later, David Ben-Gurion acknowledged that Israeli leader
Menachem Begin could be branded racist, but that doing so would
require one to "put on trial the entire Zionist movement, which is
founded on the principle of a purely Jewish entity in Palestine."

Laws granting special privileges to Jewish immigrants from anywhere in
the world, over Palestinians whose families had been on the land for
generations, and measures that set aside most land for exclusive
Jewish ownership and use, are but two examples of discriminatory
legislation underlying the Zionist experiment. As the International
Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
makes clear, racial discrimination is:

"any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
color, descent, or national and ethnic origin which has the purpose or
effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental
freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other
field of public life."

Given this internationally recognized definition, we ought not be
surprised that at a World Conference on Racism, some might suggest
that the policies of our people in the land of Palestine had earned a
place on the agenda. As such, we should take this opportunity to begin
an honest dialogue, not only with Palestinians, but also with
ourselves. Neither the chauvinism so integral to Zionism, nor the
ironic self-hatred that has gone along with it are becoming of a
strong and vital people. Just as a dialysis machine is no substitute
for a healthy and functioning kidney, neither is Zionism an adequate
substitute for a healthy and vibrant Judaism. Surely it is not for
this ignoble end, that six million died.

Tim Wise is an antiracist activist, writer and lecturer.




On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:30:14 GMT, Dave Hazelwood
<the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com > wrote:

>On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:51:23 GMT, "olushola"
><olushola@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about it."
>>> (Martin Luther King)
>>
>>Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
>>bust the American apartheid system.
>>
>>I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of purpose. They have transformed a desert into
>>an oasis and built a modern infrastructure. What I don't admire is how they have allowed the Zionists (aka
>>neocons/neonazi) to hijack their future. They got some very bad kharma to deal with. I hope they can wake up and
>>begin to use their powere and influence in a "righteous" manner.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>I agree with this. I like the Jewish people a lot and have many as
>close friends but I do not like what "Israel" is doing or has done
>politically.
>
>Just as an American, I like the average American who is good at heart
>while at the same time despising the current American government.
>
>I separate governments from the governed.
>
>Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


03 Aug 2006 20:09:25
RB
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!-Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew

Thank you for informing

"IAM...IAAM" <fullfillment@charter.net > a écrit dans le message de news:
std4d295otcti37lc4uvug74oqfcg4sp0d@4ax.com...
> Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew
> Tim Wise, ZNet
> September 5, 2001
>
>
>
> So it's official. The U.S. has withdrawn from the World Conference on
> Racism, being held in Durban, South Africa.
>
> Though the cynical and historically observant might suspect that this
> decision was merely in keeping with our longstanding unwillingness to
> deal with the legacy of racism on a global scale, the official reason
> is more circumscribed. Namely, the mid-conference pullout was intended
> to register displeasure at various delegates who are pushing
> resolutions condemning Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and Zionism
> itself: the ideology of Jewish nationalism that led to the founding of
> Israel in 1948. As the conference speeds towards a no doubt
> controversial conclusion, perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask just
> what all the fuss is about?
>
> Although one can argue with the claim made by some that Zionism and
> racism are synonymous -- especially given the amorphous definition of
> "race" which makes such a position forever and always a matter of
> semantics -- it is difficult to deny that Zionism, in practice if not
> theory, amounts to ethnic chauvinism, colonial ethnocentrism, and
> national oppression.
>
> For saying this, I can expect to be called everything but a child of
> God by many in the Jewish community. "Self-hating" will be the term of
> choice for most, I suspect: the typical Pavlovian response to one who
> is Jewish, as I am, and yet dares to criticize Israel or the ideology
> underlying its national existence.
>
> "Anti-Semite" will be the other label offered me, despite the fact
> that Zionism has led to the oppression of Semitic peoples -- namely
> the mostly Semitic Palestinians -- and is also rooted in a deep
> antipathy even for Jews. Though Zionism proclaims itself a movement of
> a strong and proud people, in fact it is an ideology that has been
> brimming with self-hatred from the beginning. Indeed, early Zionists
> believed, as a key premise of the movement, that Jews were responsible
> for the oppression we had faced over the years, and that such
> oppression was inevitable and impossible to overcome, thus, the need
> for our own country.
>
> Having never read the words of Theodore Herzl -- the founder of modern
> Zionism -- or other Zionist leaders, most will find this claim hard to
> believe. But before attacking me, perhaps they should ask who it was
> that said anti-Semitism, "is an understandable reaction to Jewish
> defects," or that, "each country can only absorb a limited number of
> Jews, if she doesn't want disorders in her stomach. Germany has
> already too many Jews."
>
> While one might be inclined to attribute either or both statements to
> Adolph Hitler, as they are surely worthy of his venomous pen, they are
> actually comments made by Herzl and Chaim Weizmann, eventual president
> of Israel, and -- at the time he made the second statement -- head of
> the World Zionist Organization. So in the pantheon of self-hating
> Jews, it appears criticism, for Zionists, should perhaps begin at
> home.
>
> Going back to my days in Hebrew school, I never understood the
> dialysis-machine-like bond that most of my peers felt for Israel. On
> the one hand, we were told God had given that land to our people, as
> part of His covenant with Abraham. This we knew because Scripture told
> us so. But this never carried much weight with me. After all, many
> Christians -- with whom I had more than a passing acquaintance growing
> up in the South -- were all-too-willing to point out that the
> Scriptures also said (in their opinions) that I was going to hell,
> Abraham notwithstanding.
>
> As such, accepting Zionism because of what God did or didn't say
> seemed dicey from the get-go. What's more, this was the same God who
> ostensibly told the ancient Hebrews never to wear clothes woven with
> two different fabrics, and who insisted we burn the entrails of
> animals we consume on an alter to create a pleasing smell. Having been
> known to sport a wrinkle-free poly-cotton blend, and having not the
> fortitude to disembowel my supper and incinerate its lower intestines,
> I had long since resolved to withhold judgment on what God did and
> didn't want, until such time as the Almighty decided to whisper said
> desires in my ear personally. The Rabbi's word wasn't going to cut it.
>
> On the other hand, we were told we needed a homeland so as to prevent
> another Holocaust. Only a strong, independent Jewish state could
> provide the kind of unity and protection required of a people who had
> suffered so much, and had lost six million souls to the Nazi terror.
>
> Yet this too seemed suspect to me. After all, one could argue that
> getting all the Jews together in one place -- especially a piece of
> real estate as small as Palestine -- would be a Jew-hater's dream come
> true. It would make finishing the job Hitler started that much easier.
> Better, it seemed then and still does, to have vibrant Jewish
> communities throughout the world, than to put all our dreidels in one
> basket, by pulling up stakes and heading to a place where others
> already lived, hoping they wouldn't mind too terribly if we kicked
> them out of their homes.
>
> In the final analysis, accepting Israel as a Jewish state for Biblical
> reasons made no more sense to me than to accept a self-identified
> Christian or Islamic nation: two configurations that understandably
> raise fears of theocracy in the heart of any Jew. And to in-gather the
> Jews to Israel for the sake of safety made no sense whatsoever. The
> only logic to Zionism then, seemed to be the "logic" of raw power:
> that of the settler, or colonizer. We wanted the land, and getting it
> would provide an ally for European and American foreign and economic
> policy. So with pressure applied and force unleashed, it became ours.
>
> Nearly 800,000 Palestinians would be displaced so as to allow for the
> creation of Israel: around 600,000 of whom, according to internal
> documents of the Israeli Defense Force, were expelled forcibly from
> their homes. At the time, these Palestinians, most of whose families
> had been living on the land for centuries, constituted two-thirds of
> the population and owned 90% of the land. Though some Zionists claim
> Palestine was a largely uninhabited wilderness prior to Jewish
> arrival, early settlers were far more honest. As Ahad Ha'am
> acknowledged in 1891:
>
> "We ... are used to believing that Israel is almost totally desolate.
> But ... this is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult
> to find fields that are not sowed."
>
> Indeed, the large presence of Palestinians led many Zionists to openly
> advocate their removal. The head of the Jewish Agency's colonization
> department stated: "there is no room for both peoples together in this
> country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to
> neighboring countries, to transfer all of them: not one village, not
> one tribe, should be left."
>
> Herzl himself conceded that Zionism was "something colonial,"
> indicating again that we were not discovering or founding anything. We
> were taking it, and for reasons we would never accept from others. As
> Shimon Peres -- seen as one of the most peace-loving Israeli leaders
> in memory -- said in 1985: "The Bible is the decisive document in
> determining the fate of our land." Such is the stuff of fanaticism,
> and we would say as much were a fundamentalist Christian to make the
> same statement about the fate of the U.S., or anywhere else for that
> matter.
>
> That most Jews have never examined the founding principles of this
> ideology to which they cleave is unfortunate. For if they were to do
> so, they might be shocked at how anti-Jewish Zionism really is. Time
> and again, Zionists have even collaborated with open Jew-haters for
> the sake of political power.
>
> Consider Herzl: a man who believed Jews were to blame for
> anti-Semitism, and thus, only by fleeing for Palestine could we be
> safe. In The Jewish State, he wrote:
>
> "Every nation in whose midst Jews live is, either covertly or openly,
> anti-Semitic ... its immediate cause is our excessive production of
> mediocre intellects, who cannot find an outlet downwards or upwards.
> When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat. When we rise,
> there also rises our terrible power of the purse."
>
> He went on to say, "The Jews are carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism
> into England; they have already introduced it into America." Were a
> non-Jew to suggest that Jews were to blame for anti-Semitism, our
> community would be rightly outraged. But the same words from the
> father of Zionism pass without comment.
>
> Worse still, early in Hitler's reign the Zionist Federation of Germany
> wrote the new Chancellor, noting their willingness to "adapt our
> community to these new structures" (namely, the Nuremberg Laws that
> limited Jewish freedom), as they "give the Jewish minority ... its own
> cultural life, its own national life."
>
> Far from resisting Nazi genocide, some Zionists collaborated with it.
> When the British devised a plan to allow thousands of German Jewish
> children to enter the U.K. and be saved from the Holocaust, David
> Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel's first Prime Minister balked,
> explaining:
>
> "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in
> Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by
> transporting them to (Israel) then I would opt for the second
> alternative."
>
> Later, Israeli Zionists would again make alliances with anti-Jewish
> extremists. In the 1970's, Israel hosted South African Prime Minister
> John Vorster, and cultivated economic and military ties with the
> apartheid state, even though Vorster had been locked up as a Nazi
> collaborator during World War II. And Israel supplied military aid to
> the Galtieri regime in Argentina, even while the Generals were known
> to harbor ex-Nazis in the country, and had targeted Argentine Jews for
> torture and death.
>
> Indeed, the argument that Zionism is racism finds some support in
> statements of Zionists themselves, many of whom have long concurred
> with the Hitlerian doctrine that Judaism is a racial identity as much
> as a religious and cultural one. In 1934, German Zionist Joachim
> Prinz, who would later head the American Jewish Congress, noted:
>
> "We want assimilation to be replaced by a new law: the declaration of
> belonging to the Jewish nation and Jewish race. A state built upon the
> principle of the purity of nation and race can only be honored and
> respected by a Jew who declares his belonging to his own kind."
>
> Years later, David Ben-Gurion acknowledged that Israeli leader
> Menachem Begin could be branded racist, but that doing so would
> require one to "put on trial the entire Zionist movement, which is
> founded on the principle of a purely Jewish entity in Palestine."
>
> Laws granting special privileges to Jewish immigrants from anywhere in
> the world, over Palestinians whose families had been on the land for
> generations, and measures that set aside most land for exclusive
> Jewish ownership and use, are but two examples of discriminatory
> legislation underlying the Zionist experiment. As the International
> Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
> makes clear, racial discrimination is:
>
> "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
> color, descent, or national and ethnic origin which has the purpose or
> effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
> exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental
> freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other
> field of public life."
>
> Given this internationally recognized definition, we ought not be
> surprised that at a World Conference on Racism, some might suggest
> that the policies of our people in the land of Palestine had earned a
> place on the agenda. As such, we should take this opportunity to begin
> an honest dialogue, not only with Palestinians, but also with
> ourselves. Neither the chauvinism so integral to Zionism, nor the
> ironic self-hatred that has gone along with it are becoming of a
> strong and vital people. Just as a dialysis machine is no substitute
> for a healthy and functioning kidney, neither is Zionism an adequate
> substitute for a healthy and vibrant Judaism. Surely it is not for
> this ignoble end, that six million died.
>
> Tim Wise is an antiracist activist, writer and lecturer.
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:30:14 GMT, Dave Hazelwood
> <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:51:23 GMT, "olushola"
>><olushola@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>> it."
>>>> (Martin Luther King)
>>>
>>>Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew
>>>and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
>>>bust the American apartheid system.
>>>
>>>I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of
>>>purpose. They have transformed a desert into
>>>an oasis and built a modern infrastructure. What I don't admire is how
>>>they have allowed the Zionists (aka
>>>neocons/neonazi) to hijack their future. They got some very bad kharma to
>>>deal with. I hope they can wake up and
>>>begin to use their powere and influence in a "righteous" manner.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>I agree with this. I like the Jewish people a lot and have many as
>>close friends but I do not like what "Israel" is doing or has done
>>politically.
>>
>>Just as an American, I like the average American who is good at heart
>>while at the same time despising the current American government.
>>
>>I separate governments from the governed.
>>
>>Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.




03 Aug 2006 13:16:24
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Imhotep (in peace)

Once again I will trot out this amazing information from the Red
Cross. I guess these folks who keep repeating these same lies look
away whenever someone posts something that shoots down the malarkey
they are spewing out.

Remember this, the Red Cross is not near as biased as the media. They
don't get large sums of money to report one side of the story, or the
other. They go to ground zero and try to help the injured.

So it is much more likely that the information will be more accurate
than anything my homeboy Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and Holmes, Buchanan,
Kerry, or Kennedy have to say about Iraq.

US SANCTIONS ON IRAQ FROM 1991 TO 2000 HARMED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
INNOCENT BABIES AND CHILDREN:
www.redcross.org/news/archives/2000/2-7-00.html


The greatest danger of American culture; is the rich and powerful's
belief in the necessity of roguery, deception, thieving,
and extreme violence as a means of human uplift.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_big_picture

US SANCTIONS ON IRAQ FROM 1991 TO 2000 HARMED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
INNOCENT BABIES AND CHILDREN:
www.redcross.org/news/archives/2000/2-7-00.html

American Global Roguery
www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/feb98herman.htm

Baby killing Pictures in Iraq: www.marchforjustice.com

Whites United to seek reparations for African Americans
www.reparationsthecure.org/



The mind is the most beautiful organ on the human body. Stop feeding
it garbage. Garbage in, garbage comes out.

Read this article carefully, and unless you can show me another
article from Truthout, or the Red Cross that shows these facts to be
incorrect than you need to stop saying ignorant stuff like "Apartheid
was less of a bad thing than the Jews attacking Lebanon. Whoever said
that, is also a dingbat. Hundreds of thousands of people, perhaps
millions died as a result of the century of Apartheid in South Africa.

If you really want to learn some facts, instead of putting toxic mud
in your head, read these two incredible books on African that I
finished a couple of months ago. Both were written by white men by the
way.

Africa, A biography of The continent John Reader
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/067973869X/sr=8-1/qid=1154628106/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9231789-4362269?ie=UTF8

Africa in World history, from Prehistory to the Present:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2W3AVIN5R5&isbn=0130929077&itm=1

Take your time and read these two books. They were very difficult for
me because like most Americans, I don't know much about Africa. So the
names of the leaders, and other people who were important in Africa
were hard for me to pronounce and remember. Once you finish the first
book, then the second one is like reading a comic book. It becomes
easier and easier and more interesting. You will now know where ACCRA
is, where Monrovia is, where Addis Ababa is, where Mogadishu is on
the map and what the people do there.

After all this is where the ancestors of ALL modern humans originated.
That means you carry the genetic makeup of many of these black people
in your genes whether you want to admit it or not.

I have found Africa to be a fascinating read. It is one of the fastest
growing places in the world. The average investment there is paying
about 30% return per annum, as compared to the average one in
Amerikkka paying about 6 to 10% if you're lucky.

Now that tidbit won't mean anything to people who only want a good
job, but to investors that one sentence speaks volumes. I know where
all of my money is going. :-) If you hate black people so much that
you would even give up being rich just to continue hating on them,
then you just go on and do that. I know where the smart money is
going.

Shlala Gashle (go safely)

Knowledge





On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:43:13 GMT, "olushola"
<olushola@tampabay.rr.com > wrote:

>> Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>
>
>This is not true. The number of deaths from the sanctions and the first gulf war far exceeded what Saddam did. Also
>the impact of the DUI on the environment is something else to consider. What do you think America would do if a
>group within America rose up to wage war to topple the Bush regime? The Shiites did that (persuaded by Bush), so
>all their blood is on Bush's hand. Now Bush understands exactly what Saddam was up against from these Iranian
>allies. Iraq was one of the most progressive Arab nations where women enjoyed freedoms, and where the whisky and
>the sexy was available. Saddam just did not want that Islamic stuff in his country. But guess what, Bush has to
>deal with it now.
>


03 Aug 2006 13:20:44
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

I shared this news service that allows us to see the evil that
Amerikkka and Israel is perpetrating there, with you all last week.
Here it is again

You no longer need to rely on the narrow one-sided 'Middle East'
reporting of corporate media, ie; CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, NPR and
others. Visit LinkTV for news from the Direct perspectives of Lebanon,
Iran, Syria, Israel, etc.
* Requires QuickTime Player

Television without borders!

http://www.linktv.com/


www.marchforjustice.com







On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 15:20:54 +0100, "JP" <noone@noone.com > wrote:

>
>"RB" <RB@hotmirl.com> wrote in message
>news:mr8zg.236$Ct1.41@nntpserver.swip.net...
>>
>> "Manco" <manco_dollars@net2blah.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>> cP5zg.2000$8v.1621@trnddc05...
>>> When will just say no to the Zionist entity?
>>>
>> Out of 54 people killed, 37 were children.
>> Click to see: http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/51546/overview
>I wonder if any of the horrendous images got shown on TV's in USA or Israel?
>They certainly didn't make it to UK TV
>


03 Aug 2006 13:27:11
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Show me the link where you found this information please.
I'm sure you must be smart enough to realize that America, England,
and Israel always demonize, and make the leader a savage so they can
justify being the first to attack and begin the slaughter.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I would like to see the article that
convince you that that happened?

Dave also gave you the straight story about the horrible things our
people has done to others.

Have you ever bothered to read the information at this link?

BTW, What did Noriega ever do to us that justified our attacking one
of the most beautiful black countries killing several thousand mostly
black civilians, and kidnapping their president??
Don't you think that was wrong?

American Global Roguery
www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/feb98herman.htm

Reading critically is fundamental to being considered a wise, ethical,
and moral person.



On 1 Aug 2006 10:51:34 -0700, "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de > wrote:

>
>JP wrote:
>> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>> >> >> > about
>> >> >> > it."
>> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >> >
>> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>> >>
>> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>> >>
>> >> it failed.
>> >
>> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>> > you'll always be the loser ....
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>> >
>> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>
>> complete lies.
>>
>> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>> NIL
>
>How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>
>Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>
>
>"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>2002)
>
>
>Lies of course ....
>
>
>Max


03 Aug 2006 12:03:29
Habib
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

IAM...IAAM wrote:
> Show me the link where you found this information please.

He cites the book and author at the end of the passage, why not go
check out a local library. You know what those are, right?

> I'm sure you must be smart enough to realize that America, England,
> and Israel always demonize, and make the leader a savage so they can
> justify being the first to attack and begin the slaughter.

I'm sure you must be smart enough to realize that every country and
ethnic group does this, and most to a far greater extent than America,
England and Israel. When was the last time someone started a war by
saying, "Well, this guy is a real nice person and I have no problems
with him whatsoever, so...let's invade his country and rape his women.
Comon, it'll be fun."

On the other hand, maybe you're not.

> Reading critically is fundamental to being considered a wise, ethical,
> and moral person.

Ironic!



03 Aug 2006 14:13:31
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

JP wrote:
> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:1154532538.164843.194390@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
>>JP wrote:
>>
>>>"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>>>news:1154454694.262646.285650@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>JP wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>stephenj wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Calimero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Manco wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no
>>>>>>>>>>mistake
>>>>>>>>>>about
>>>>>>>>>>it."
>>>>>>>>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>>>>>>>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it failed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>>>>>>Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies
>>>>>>motives
>>>>>>you'll always be the loser ....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>>>>>>the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>>>>>
>>>>>complete lies.
>>>>>
>>>>>How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>>>>>NIL
>>>>
>>>>How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>>>>
>>>>Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>>>>confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>>>>will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>>>>her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>>>>will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>>>>the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>>>>regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>>>>comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>>>>vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>>>>execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>>>>of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>>>>This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>>>>criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>>>>Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>>>>the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>>>>rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>>>>man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>>>>her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>>>>rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>>>>employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>>>>excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>>>>mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>>>>husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>>>>used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>>>>fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>>>>villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>>>>and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>>>>POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>>>>the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>>>>(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>>>>2002)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Lies of course ....
>>>>
>>>
>>>No just totally irrelvant .
>>
>>
>>Says who?
>>
>>
>>
>>>The pretext for invasion of Iraq was a built on an utterly false premise.
>>
>>
>>There were a lot of reasons for the invasion. With "false premise" do
>>you mean?
>>
>>
>>>But it is a typical ploy used by many to justify the unjustifable.
>>
>>
>>To topple a butcher regime like Saddam's is "unjustifiable"?
>>Please elaborate ....
>>
>>
>>
>>>Too wrongs never make a right.
>>
>>
>>Erm, which was the "second" wrong (Saddam being the first)?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Max
>>>
>>>Translation of your answer
>>>You cannot or refuse to answer the questions I posed.
>>
>>Of course I can.
>>
>>
>>>I'll try again
>>>How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>>
>>Quite a lot.
>>The secret police and the military killed about 1 million Iraqis (not
>>even counting all the Iranians and Kuwaitis).
>>
>
> Oh really.
> How many is Saddam on trial for?
> We found the bodies in Rwanda so we could count, so just where is ther
> evidence for 5% of the population being killed?
>
>
>>>How many Allied forces did they kill before the illegal invasion?
>>
>>About 1 million.
>
> Really.
> and your evidence.
> The whole of the US armed forces is 1.4 million, so I think the world may
> have noticed if a million of them got killed.
>
> Try again!
>
>
>>>So do you now accept that the invasion created the terrorists?
>>
>>
>>Only some Islamist zealots. The huge Saddamist faction existed already
>>before the invasion - they were Saddams secret police and military.
>>
>
> So what is the difference between the Saddam military and Israeli Military
> (Who reven today are slaughtering women and children with indiscriminate
> bombing), by that definition they are both terrorists?
>
> The point I was making was that Saddams forces were not a threat to anyone
> prior to invasion.
> Now Bush and his misguided neocons have ignited a tinder box, which no one
> knows where it will end.
>
>
>>>I'll give you another question.
>>
>>Bring it on!
>>
>>
>>>Since you know want to agrue that human rights are a legitamiate basis
>>>for
>>>illegal invasion,
>>
>>What do you mean by "illegal"?
>
>
> As in against international law.
> A concept I realise that from your lack of understanding of the war crime at
> Qana is way above you.
>
>
>>>Do Allied forces go into every country where there are
>>>human rights abuses?
>>
>>Of course not. Sometimes the human right abuses are minor one.
>>Sometimes it is too dangerous to invade. Sometimes there is no
>>strategic interest.
>>So we have to make a priority list.
>
>
> Strategic interest hey!
> No wonder you have the inconsitstant morals of a sewer.
> So whose next to have a taste of USA type liberation?
> China, North Korea, Iran,
>
>
>>>If they did they, would end up invading themselves.
>>
>>Why this?
>>
>>
>>>Ask yourself the wider question why invade Iraq and not Rwanda?
>>
>>
>>I would have advocated an Rwanda invasion. Don't know why Clinton
>>didn't do it. Busy getting his cock sucked maybe?
>>But perhaps lack of strategic interest.List of priorities.
>
>
>
>>>Some of us can see between the lies, smokescreen and mirrors, of Bush and
>>>poodle Blair.
>>
>>I will never understand the moral fabric of someone who wished Saddam
>>had still his job.

not just moral fabric - intellectual fabric.

--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


03 Aug 2006 12:58:39
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


Dave Hazelwood wrote:

> ....
> I agree with this. I like the Jewish people a lot and have many as
> close friends but ....


Those words gives me a chill .....

We have heard this a million times after WW2 from Germans.
Like Jewish people.
Had many friends.
But ...

EXACTLY the same words.
Exactly.

Max



03 Aug 2006 19:26:25
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

I don't like Mel Gibson personally because of the enormous lies he
perpetrated in his movie "The Passion of The Christ"

Yet had he changed his rant to say that "Jews are the manipulators of
MOST of the skullduggery that goes on in the Middle East, I believe he
would have been more accurate.

America is the one who foments dissension and overthrows governments
around the world.

TBR is now talking about picking the next president of Cuba.
What the hell right do we have to do that? :-(
Cuba has been a peaceful neighbor for over 40 years and will probably
continue to do so if we leave them alone.
Of course the changelings who run our gubbermint certainly don't
intend to do that.

On 1 Aug 2006 19:17:24 -0700, "Fan" <graf_plus_knife@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> On 1 Aug 2006 10:51:34 -0700, "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >JP wrote:
>> >> "Calimero" <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote in message
>> >> news:1154361944.342367.209400@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>> >> >> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >stephenj wrote:
>> >> >> >> Calimero wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Manco wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake
>> >> >> >> > about
>> >> >> >> > it."
>> >> >> >> > (Martin Luther King)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>> >> >> >happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> it failed.
>> >> >
>> >> > LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
>> >> > Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
>> >> > you'll always be the loser ....
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>> >> >
>> >> > Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
>> >> > the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>> >>
>> >> complete lies.
>> >>
>> >> How many 'terrorists' as you call them, were there under Saddam?
>> >> NIL
>> >
>> >How many "terrorists" were there under Hitler in Germany?
>> >
>> >Something for you about Saddam's Iraq:
>> >
>> >
>> >"This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force
>> >confessions from their parents and grandparents. This is a regime that
>> >will crush all of the bones in the feet of a two-year-old-girl to force
>> >her mother to divulge her father's whereabouts. This is a regime that
>> >will hold a nursing baby at arm's length from its mother and allow
>> >the child to starve to death to force the mother to confess. This is a
>> >regime that will burn a person's limbs off to force him to confess or
>> >comply. This is a regime that will slowly lower its victims into huge
>> >vats of acid, either to break their will or simply as a means of
>> >execution. This is a regime that applies electric shocks to the bodies
>> >of its victims, particularly their genitals, with great creativity.
>> >This is a regime that in [the year] 2000 decreed that the crime of
>> >criticizing the regime (which can be as harmless as suggesting that
>> >Saddam's clothing does not match) would be punished by cutting out
>> >the offender's tongue. This is a regime that practices systematic
>> >rape against its female victims. This is a regime that will drag in a
>> >man's wife, daughter, or other female relative and repeatedly rape
>> >her in front of him. This is a regime that will force a white-hot metal
>> >rod into a person's anus or other orifices. This is a regime that
>> >employs thalium poisoning, widely considered one of the most
>> >excruciating ways to die. This is a regime that will behead a young
>> >mother in the street in front of her house and children because her
>> >husband was suspected of opposing the regime. This is a regime that
>> >used chemical warfare on its own Kurdish citizens - not just on the
>> >fifteen thousand killed and maimed at Halabja but on scores of other
>> >villages all across Kurdistan. This is a regime that tested chemical
>> >and biological warfare agents on Iranian prisoners of war, using the
>> >POWs in controlled experiments to determine the best ways to disperse
>> >the agents to inflict the greatest damage."
>> >(Kenneth M. Pollack, The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq,
>> >2002)
>> >
>> >
>> >Lies of course ....
>> >
>> >
>> >Max
>>
>>
>> You think Bush does not do those same things ?
>
>It is hard to believe the things that go on in my name. These are
>difficult and trying times for Americans of conscience. Americans do
>not take delight in talking about the horrible things our current
>government does. We hope that these abuses and our national nightmare
>will stop after the next two elections.
>
>Dr. Steven Miles wrote a book "Oath Betrayed" about the role of medical
>personal in the torture of terrorist suspects. Most of this was exposed
>by US soldiers who were repulsed by these things but not a single
>medical professional complained.
>
>America sunk very low these past few years and we can thank the
>JewNazis for that. Mel Gibson was right when he spoke out but he did
>not have the back bone to stick with it when the JewNazi Media got
>after him.
>
>
>
>>
>> Think again. Teflect on Abu Graib, Gitmo, the Renditions, his Gulags,
>> and his dispensing himself from the law. Couple that with the secret
>> spying on phone calles, etc and you have no fucking idea what he is
>> capable of except he smells a lot like Hitler and Stalin never mind
>> Saddam.


04 Aug 2006 00:51:16
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Dave Hazelwood wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>
> it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>

there were many reasons for attacking iraq. toppling saddam hussein
was seen as a key objective in the interest of maintaining the zionist
regime as stated in the 1996 paper "a clean break, a new strategy for
securing the realm", by an israeli think tank group headed by richard
pearle:

http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

to cite a few lines from the paper:

Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation
with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even
rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam
Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic
objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s
regional ambitions.

i repeat, this paper was written *ten* years ago.

other bush administration officials in this study group included
douglas feith and david wurmser.

one of the problems facing the united states is that there are several
people, in places on influence in government, who hold dual united
states and israeli citizenship (although you can't be sure because this
information is held confidential) who get their allegiences mixed up so
as to believe that what is good for the zionist regime is good for the
united states.

as former senator fritz hollings once said, there is no middle eastern
foreign policy in the U.S. senate other than what AIPAC gives them.


> the american people are too busy to care.
>

the american people don't see the cost to them; only a small percentage
of the population has anyone militarily involved and bush is funding the
war through debt - and by funding the war through "emergency"
appropriations, the debt doesn't even show up in the budget deficit
figures.


04 Aug 2006 00:55:57
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> Dave Hazelwood wrote:
>
>>On 31 Jul 2006 05:44:54 -0700, "Wayne" <waynetv50@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>stephenj wrote:
>>>
>>>>Calimero wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Manco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>>>it."
>>>>>(Martin Luther King)
>>>>
>>>>the USA should just get out of the middle east entirely.
>>>
>>>that would be an admission of failure of Bush foreign policy. what
>>>happened to establishing democracy and spreading freedom?
>>
>>
>>ahem. it was a ruse from the getgo.
>>
>>it was a perceived opportunity to "steal" oil for Bushes crony's.
>>
>>it failed.
>
>
> LOL, this "oil for Bush's cronies is the most retarded explanation.
> Bush is you enemy obviously. Without understanding your enemies motives
> you'll always be the loser ....
>
>
>
>>nevermind the hundreds of thousand innocent lives it cost.
>
>
> Saddam murdered far more people than were killed by Allied forces in
> the war and in the subsequent daily fight against the terrorists.
>

many people have distributed half-truths about the number of people
killed by saddam hussein. from what i can tell, most of the people who
were killed were killed as a result of the iran-iraq war. that little
fact is typically left out.

just like people say that hussein paid money to the families of suicide
bombers in israel. what they fail to mention is that the zionist regime
routinely destroyed the houses of the families of suicide bombers,
leaving them homeless and without possessions (a violation of
international law, but these are arabs, so nobody really cares). what
hussein did was to give money to help families for whom the zionist
regime destroyed everything they owned. another "minor" fact that is
often overlooked...


03 Aug 2006 19:58:52
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!-Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew

Well RB,

I don't really do that much; just try and share the undisputed truth
with those whom I feel would benefit from it.

If people are ever going to learn to value, respect, and appreciate
one for the other, the truth has to be told and behavior changed as a
result of it.

Thank you very much for your kind words. I don't get those very often.
:-)

In peace

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 20:09:25 +0200, "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com > wrote:

>Thank you for informing
>
>"IAM...IAAM" <fullfillment@charter.net> a écrit dans le message de news:
>std4d295otcti37lc4uvug74oqfcg4sp0d@4ax.com...
>> Reflections on Zionism from a Dissident Jew
>> Tim Wise, ZNet
>> September 5, 2001
>>
>>
>>
>> So it's official. The U.S. has withdrawn from the World Conference on
>> Racism, being held in Durban, South Africa.
>>
>> Though the cynical and historically observant might suspect that this
>> decision was merely in keeping with our longstanding unwillingness to
>> deal with the legacy of racism on a global scale, the official reason
>> is more circumscribed. Namely, the mid-conference pullout was intended
>> to register displeasure at various delegates who are pushing
>> resolutions condemning Israeli treatment of Palestinians, and Zionism
>> itself: the ideology of Jewish nationalism that led to the founding of
>> Israel in 1948. As the conference speeds towards a no doubt
>> controversial conclusion, perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask just
>> what all the fuss is about?
>>
>> Although one can argue with the claim made by some that Zionism and
>> racism are synonymous -- especially given the amorphous definition of
>> "race" which makes such a position forever and always a matter of
>> semantics -- it is difficult to deny that Zionism, in practice if not
>> theory, amounts to ethnic chauvinism, colonial ethnocentrism, and
>> national oppression.
>>
>> For saying this, I can expect to be called everything but a child of
>> God by many in the Jewish community. "Self-hating" will be the term of
>> choice for most, I suspect: the typical Pavlovian response to one who
>> is Jewish, as I am, and yet dares to criticize Israel or the ideology
>> underlying its national existence.
>>
>> "Anti-Semite" will be the other label offered me, despite the fact
>> that Zionism has led to the oppression of Semitic peoples -- namely
>> the mostly Semitic Palestinians -- and is also rooted in a deep
>> antipathy even for Jews. Though Zionism proclaims itself a movement of
>> a strong and proud people, in fact it is an ideology that has been
>> brimming with self-hatred from the beginning. Indeed, early Zionists
>> believed, as a key premise of the movement, that Jews were responsible
>> for the oppression we had faced over the years, and that such
>> oppression was inevitable and impossible to overcome, thus, the need
>> for our own country.
>>
>> Having never read the words of Theodore Herzl -- the founder of modern
>> Zionism -- or other Zionist leaders, most will find this claim hard to
>> believe. But before attacking me, perhaps they should ask who it was
>> that said anti-Semitism, "is an understandable reaction to Jewish
>> defects," or that, "each country can only absorb a limited number of
>> Jews, if she doesn't want disorders in her stomach. Germany has
>> already too many Jews."
>>
>> While one might be inclined to attribute either or both statements to
>> Adolph Hitler, as they are surely worthy of his venomous pen, they are
>> actually comments made by Herzl and Chaim Weizmann, eventual president
>> of Israel, and -- at the time he made the second statement -- head of
>> the World Zionist Organization. So in the pantheon of self-hating
>> Jews, it appears criticism, for Zionists, should perhaps begin at
>> home.
>>
>> Going back to my days in Hebrew school, I never understood the
>> dialysis-machine-like bond that most of my peers felt for Israel. On
>> the one hand, we were told God had given that land to our people, as
>> part of His covenant with Abraham. This we knew because Scripture told
>> us so. But this never carried much weight with me. After all, many
>> Christians -- with whom I had more than a passing acquaintance growing
>> up in the South -- were all-too-willing to point out that the
>> Scriptures also said (in their opinions) that I was going to hell,
>> Abraham notwithstanding.
>>
>> As such, accepting Zionism because of what God did or didn't say
>> seemed dicey from the get-go. What's more, this was the same God who
>> ostensibly told the ancient Hebrews never to wear clothes woven with
>> two different fabrics, and who insisted we burn the entrails of
>> animals we consume on an alter to create a pleasing smell. Having been
>> known to sport a wrinkle-free poly-cotton blend, and having not the
>> fortitude to disembowel my supper and incinerate its lower intestines,
>> I had long since resolved to withhold judgment on what God did and
>> didn't want, until such time as the Almighty decided to whisper said
>> desires in my ear personally. The Rabbi's word wasn't going to cut it.
>>
>> On the other hand, we were told we needed a homeland so as to prevent
>> another Holocaust. Only a strong, independent Jewish state could
>> provide the kind of unity and protection required of a people who had
>> suffered so much, and had lost six million souls to the Nazi terror.
>>
>> Yet this too seemed suspect to me. After all, one could argue that
>> getting all the Jews together in one place -- especially a piece of
>> real estate as small as Palestine -- would be a Jew-hater's dream come
>> true. It would make finishing the job Hitler started that much easier.
>> Better, it seemed then and still does, to have vibrant Jewish
>> communities throughout the world, than to put all our dreidels in one
>> basket, by pulling up stakes and heading to a place where others
>> already lived, hoping they wouldn't mind too terribly if we kicked
>> them out of their homes.
>>
>> In the final analysis, accepting Israel as a Jewish state for Biblical
>> reasons made no more sense to me than to accept a self-identified
>> Christian or Islamic nation: two configurations that understandably
>> raise fears of theocracy in the heart of any Jew. And to in-gather the
>> Jews to Israel for the sake of safety made no sense whatsoever. The
>> only logic to Zionism then, seemed to be the "logic" of raw power:
>> that of the settler, or colonizer. We wanted the land, and getting it
>> would provide an ally for European and American foreign and economic
>> policy. So with pressure applied and force unleashed, it became ours.
>>
>> Nearly 800,000 Palestinians would be displaced so as to allow for the
>> creation of Israel: around 600,000 of whom, according to internal
>> documents of the Israeli Defense Force, were expelled forcibly from
>> their homes. At the time, these Palestinians, most of whose families
>> had been living on the land for centuries, constituted two-thirds of
>> the population and owned 90% of the land. Though some Zionists claim
>> Palestine was a largely uninhabited wilderness prior to Jewish
>> arrival, early settlers were far more honest. As Ahad Ha'am
>> acknowledged in 1891:
>>
>> "We ... are used to believing that Israel is almost totally desolate.
>> But ... this is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult
>> to find fields that are not sowed."
>>
>> Indeed, the large presence of Palestinians led many Zionists to openly
>> advocate their removal. The head of the Jewish Agency's colonization
>> department stated: "there is no room for both peoples together in this
>> country. There is no other way than to transfer the Arabs from here to
>> neighboring countries, to transfer all of them: not one village, not
>> one tribe, should be left."
>>
>> Herzl himself conceded that Zionism was "something colonial,"
>> indicating again that we were not discovering or founding anything. We
>> were taking it, and for reasons we would never accept from others. As
>> Shimon Peres -- seen as one of the most peace-loving Israeli leaders
>> in memory -- said in 1985: "The Bible is the decisive document in
>> determining the fate of our land." Such is the stuff of fanaticism,
>> and we would say as much were a fundamentalist Christian to make the
>> same statement about the fate of the U.S., or anywhere else for that
>> matter.
>>
>> That most Jews have never examined the founding principles of this
>> ideology to which they cleave is unfortunate. For if they were to do
>> so, they might be shocked at how anti-Jewish Zionism really is. Time
>> and again, Zionists have even collaborated with open Jew-haters for
>> the sake of political power.
>>
>> Consider Herzl: a man who believed Jews were to blame for
>> anti-Semitism, and thus, only by fleeing for Palestine could we be
>> safe. In The Jewish State, he wrote:
>>
>> "Every nation in whose midst Jews live is, either covertly or openly,
>> anti-Semitic ... its immediate cause is our excessive production of
>> mediocre intellects, who cannot find an outlet downwards or upwards.
>> When we sink, we become a revolutionary proletariat. When we rise,
>> there also rises our terrible power of the purse."
>>
>> He went on to say, "The Jews are carrying the seeds of anti-Semitism
>> into England; they have already introduced it into America." Were a
>> non-Jew to suggest that Jews were to blame for anti-Semitism, our
>> community would be rightly outraged. But the same words from the
>> father of Zionism pass without comment.
>>
>> Worse still, early in Hitler's reign the Zionist Federation of Germany
>> wrote the new Chancellor, noting their willingness to "adapt our
>> community to these new structures" (namely, the Nuremberg Laws that
>> limited Jewish freedom), as they "give the Jewish minority ... its own
>> cultural life, its own national life."
>>
>> Far from resisting Nazi genocide, some Zionists collaborated with it.
>> When the British devised a plan to allow thousands of German Jewish
>> children to enter the U.K. and be saved from the Holocaust, David
>> Ben-Gurion, who would become Israel's first Prime Minister balked,
>> explaining:
>>
>> "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in
>> Germany by bringing them over to England, and only half of them by
>> transporting them to (Israel) then I would opt for the second
>> alternative."
>>
>> Later, Israeli Zionists would again make alliances with anti-Jewish
>> extremists. In the 1970's, Israel hosted South African Prime Minister
>> John Vorster, and cultivated economic and military ties with the
>> apartheid state, even though Vorster had been locked up as a Nazi
>> collaborator during World War II. And Israel supplied military aid to
>> the Galtieri regime in Argentina, even while the Generals were known
>> to harbor ex-Nazis in the country, and had targeted Argentine Jews for
>> torture and death.
>>
>> Indeed, the argument that Zionism is racism finds some support in
>> statements of Zionists themselves, many of whom have long concurred
>> with the Hitlerian doctrine that Judaism is a racial identity as much
>> as a religious and cultural one. In 1934, German Zionist Joachim
>> Prinz, who would later head the American Jewish Congress, noted:
>>
>> "We want assimilation to be replaced by a new law: the declaration of
>> belonging to the Jewish nation and Jewish race. A state built upon the
>> principle of the purity of nation and race can only be honored and
>> respected by a Jew who declares his belonging to his own kind."
>>
>> Years later, David Ben-Gurion acknowledged that Israeli leader
>> Menachem Begin could be branded racist, but that doing so would
>> require one to "put on trial the entire Zionist movement, which is
>> founded on the principle of a purely Jewish entity in Palestine."
>>
>> Laws granting special privileges to Jewish immigrants from anywhere in
>> the world, over Palestinians whose families had been on the land for
>> generations, and measures that set aside most land for exclusive
>> Jewish ownership and use, are but two examples of discriminatory
>> legislation underlying the Zionist experiment. As the International
>> Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination
>> makes clear, racial discrimination is:
>>
>> "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race,
>> color, descent, or national and ethnic origin which has the purpose or
>> effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or
>> exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental
>> freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other
>> field of public life."
>>
>> Given this internationally recognized definition, we ought not be
>> surprised that at a World Conference on Racism, some might suggest
>> that the policies of our people in the land of Palestine had earned a
>> place on the agenda. As such, we should take this opportunity to begin
>> an honest dialogue, not only with Palestinians, but also with
>> ourselves. Neither the chauvinism so integral to Zionism, nor the
>> ironic self-hatred that has gone along with it are becoming of a
>> strong and vital people. Just as a dialysis machine is no substitute
>> for a healthy and functioning kidney, neither is Zionism an adequate
>> substitute for a healthy and vibrant Judaism. Surely it is not for
>> this ignoble end, that six million died.
>>
>> Tim Wise is an antiracist activist, writer and lecturer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:30:14 GMT, Dave Hazelwood
>> <the_big_kahuna@mailcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 01:51:23 GMT, "olushola"
>>><olushola@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
>>>>> it."
>>>>> (Martin Luther King)
>>>>
>>>>Although I admire King, he clearly could not differentiate between a Jew
>>>>and a Zionist. He needed Jewish support to
>>>>bust the American apartheid system.
>>>>
>>>>I admire the Jews for their strong sense of survivalism and unity of
>>>>purpose. They have transformed a desert into
>>>>an oasis and built a modern infrastructure. What I don't admire is how
>>>>they have allowed the Zionists (aka
>>>>neocons/neonazi) to hijack their future. They got some very bad kharma to
>>>>deal with. I hope they can wake up and
>>>>begin to use their powere and influence in a "righteous" manner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree with this. I like the Jewish people a lot and have many as
>>>close friends but I do not like what "Israel" is doing or has done
>>>politically.
>>>
>>>Just as an American, I like the average American who is good at heart
>>>while at the same time despising the current American government.
>>>
>>>I separate governments from the governed.
>>>
>>>Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>


04 Aug 2006 01:09:02
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
>
> Israel had retreated from Lebanon (in 2000) and Gaza (2006). Those
> Islamofascists understood this as sign of weakness.
>

this is nonsense. the zionist state continued to expand jewish
settlements in the west bank (presumably in violation of international
law, so it's ironic when israel accuses hezbollah of being in
violation); the zionist state continued to kidnap palestinian civilians
(holding some 9,000 at present including 2 more who were kidnapped
right before hamas responded by kidnapping a soldier of the zionist
regime); the zionist state continued to engage in an assassination
campaign against palestinians during what was supposedly a "cease fire"
with hamas (the often featured dropping 500 lb bombs in the middle of
a crowd an then hearing the zionist regime claim that they didn't
"intentionally" kill civilians).

there was no withdrawal by the racist zionist regime, and there was no
cease fire.


> Hitler said the same in "Mein Kampf". Not many believed him .....
>

i'd say it's time for the leaders of the zionist regime to start wearing
their brown shirts in public.


04 Aug 2006 01:14:40
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

stephenj wrote:
>
> true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
> weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
> right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>

the zionist regime isn't militarily weak, yet they are killing civilians
almost exclusively. they have even admitted that their objective was to
use collective punishment to get the civilian populations to turn
against hamas and hezbollah.


04 Aug 2006 08:24:58
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

jingus wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
>
>>
>> true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>> weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>> right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>>
>
> the zionist regime ......... even admitted that their objective was to
> use collective punishment to get the civilian populations to turn
> against hamas and hezbollah.

good point - israel, via their "collective punishment" regime, does
admit to targetting civilians.


--
the Roosevelt administration .. has used the war to justify
restrictions of Congressional power, and the assumption of
dictatorial procedures on the part of the President and his
appointees.

- Charles A. Lindbergh, 9/11/41


04 Aug 2006 10:06:42
Calimero
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!


jingus wrote:
> stephenj wrote:
> >
> > true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
> > weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
> > right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
> >
>
> the zionist regime .... have even admitted that their objective was to
> use collective punishment to get the civilian populations to turn
> against hamas and hezbollah.

Hardcore Nazi fantasies ...

Max


--
"The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly
seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the
new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just
'anti-Zionist'! ...
When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
it."
(Martin Luther King)



04 Aug 2006 12:58:03
IAM...IAAM
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Well said RB,

I hope by now you have had the time to read Tim Wise's excellent post
about "Zionism" and what it really is. He made it clear why no one
dares criticize this tiny tiny tiny tiny, country called Israel and
the people who make the decisions called Zionists.

http://home.mindspring.com/~fontenelles/wise1.htm



On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 17:58:26 +0200, "RB" <RB@hotmirl.com > wrote:

>
>"wkhedr" <wkhedr@my-deja.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
>1154612338.066723.99350@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> You can shoot, shoot and shoot, who cares how many you kill as long as
>> you stole the house from them, you can label them terrorists, people
>> believe you and support you and give you more weapons!!
>>
>>
>
>THIS IS ABSOLUTELY AND 100% CORRECT.
>
>Nobody dares to condemn the crimes in Lebanon. Even the UN could not condemn
>the war crime in Qana. Nobody dares to criticize Israel. You can criticize
>God, but not Israel. The occupier is shown by the media as the victim, and
>the poor, occupied, humiliated, killed, and massacred is shown as the
>terrorist.
>
>It is very easy to understand how the media works, ANY resistance to the
>Israeli occupation in the region is terrorism. Remember Mandela was
>considered by the apartheid regim as terrorist, By the way Israel was a
>sincere friend of the apartheid regime. Normal, they think and work the same
>way.
>
>Can people resist to the brainwash of the media, can they be free, very
>difficult. We always hear from one side. All we know about Palestinians,
>they are terrorist violent and kill innocent people. Do we see the images of
>Palestinians children killed or the Lebanese children kill?
>


04 Aug 2006 15:27:48
stephenj
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
> jingus wrote:
>
>>stephenj wrote:
>>
>>>true, but that's not the issue. it doesn't follow that if you are too
>>>weak to attack a country's main military force that this gives you the
>>>right to attack civilians. it doesn't.
>>>
>>
>>the zionist regime .... have even admitted that their objective was to
>>use collective punishment to get the civilian populations to turn
>>against hamas and hezbollah.
>
>
> Hardcore Nazi fantasies ...

remember, israel does have a stated policy of "collective punishment" re
palestinian terrorists.


--
"when i visited Aden before collectivization,
all the markets were full of fish product. After
collectivization, the fish immediately disappeared."

- Aleksandr Vassiliev, Soviet KGB official


04 Aug 2006 22:27:43
jingus
Re: Israel commits worst-ever war crime in Qana!!!!

Calimero wrote:
>
> "The anti-Semite rejoices at any opportunity to vent his malice. The
> times have made it unpopular, in the West, to proclaim openly a hatred
> of the Jews. This being the case, the anti-Semite must constantly
> seek new forms and forums for his poison. How he must revel in the
> new masquerrade! He does not hate the Jews, he is just
> 'anti-Zionist'! ...
> When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews -- make no mistake about
> it."
> (Martin Luther King)
>

of course, had king known that the racist zionist regime was a supporter
of the racist aparthed regime in south africa, i suspect that he would
have changed his views.