31 Mar 2008 08:20:27
Raja
Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Lindsay Davenport
James Blake
Ivan Lendl
Maria Sharapova (early)
Mary Pierce

Any one else you could think of?


31 Mar 2008 08:24:40
fearsomeforehand
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 11:20=A0am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Lindsay Davenport
> James Blake
> Ivan Lendl
> Maria Sharapova (early)
> Mary Pierce
>
> Any one else you could think of?

Andre Agassi


31 Mar 2008 08:55:39
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Mecir.


31 Mar 2008 09:44:03
fearsomeforehand
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 11:55=A0am, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
> Mecir.

also Monica Seles and David Nalbandian.


31 Mar 2008 09:56:08
Rodjk #613
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Lindsay Davenport
> James Blake
> Ivan Lendl
> Maria Sharapova (early)
> Mary Pierce
>
> Any one else you could think of?

Connors.

Rodjk #613


31 Mar 2008 19:01:22
Don Rivella
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Raja wrote:
> Lindsay Davenport
> James Blake
> Ivan Lendl
> Maria Sharapova (early)
> Mary Pierce
>
> Any one else you could think of?

When Petr Korda was on, he probably hit the ball cleaner than any of the
above.


31 Mar 2008 17:31:16
Javier =?iso-8859-1?q?Gonz=E1l
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

Don Rivella wrote:

> Raja wrote:
>> Lindsay Davenport
>> James Blake
>> Ivan Lendl
>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>> Mary Pierce
>>
>> Any one else you could think of?
>
> When Petr Korda was on, he probably hit the ball cleaner than any of the
> above.

On steroids? ;)


31 Mar 2008 18:03:19
Vari L. Cinicke
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Rodjk #613 wrote:
> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lindsay Davenport
>> James Blake
>> Ivan Lendl
>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>> Mary Pierce
>>
>> Any one else you could think of?
>
> Connors.
>
> Rodjk #613

Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?

Bizarre, IMHO!

--
Cheers,

vc


31 Mar 2008 11:42:41
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Lindsay Davenport
> >> James Blake
> >> Ivan Lendl
> >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >> Mary Pierce
> >>
> >> Any one else you could think of?
> >
> > Connors.
> >
> > Rodjk #613
>
> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?

Flat hitting lends itself to clean hitting because one is going
(relatively) straight thru
the ball rather than brushing up or down-and-thru to varying degrees.
More direct
contact for (probably) a longer period. But you know that..

>
> Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc


31 Mar 2008 12:20:48
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 1:42=A0pm, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Lindsay Davenport
> > >> James Blake
> > >> Ivan Lendl
> > >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > >> Mary Pierce
>
> > >> Any one else you could think of?
>
> > > Connors.
>
> > > Rodjk #613
>
> > Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that=

> > matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> > think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> Flat hitting lends itself to clean hitting because one is going
> (relatively) straight thru
> the ball rather than brushing up or down-and-thru to varying degrees.
> More direct
> contact for (probably) a longer period. =A0But you know that..

Yes. And clean hitters usually like the faster surfaces like carpet,
fast hard court etc. The topspinning moonball clowns like Nadal prefer
clay.

>
>
>
>
>
> > Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
>
> > vc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



31 Mar 2008 12:38:14
number_six
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 7:55=A0am, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
> Mecir.

And to a degree, Kucera and Hrbaty. It's the Slovak style.


31 Mar 2008 12:41:24
Rodjk #613
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Lindsay Davenport
> >> James Blake
> >> Ivan Lendl
> >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >> Mary Pierce
>
> >> Any one else you could think of?
>
> > Connors.
>
> > Rodjk #613
>
> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc

Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
is...well, strange.

Rodjk #613


01 Apr 2008 07:12:18
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>> James Blake
>>> Ivan Lendl
>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>> Mary Pierce
>>>
>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>
>> Connors.
>>
>> Rodjk #613
>
> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> Bizarre, IMHO!
>



lol - Fedfuckers exposed.

Mission accomplished ; )



01 Apr 2008 07:29:00
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Rodjk #613 wrote:
> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>> James Blake
>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>> Connors.
>>> Rodjk #613
>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>>
>> Bizarre, IMHO!
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> vc
>
> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> is...well, strange.
>
> Rodjk #613



...& where's Sampras?

Clearly a troll post.



31 Mar 2008 20:54:34
Vari L. Cinicke
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Carey wrote:
>
> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>> James Blake
>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>>
>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>> Connors.
>>>
>>> Rodjk #613
>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> Flat hitting lends itself to clean hitting because one is going
> (relatively) straight thru
> the ball rather than brushing up or down-and-thru to varying degrees.
> More direct
> contact for (probably) a longer period. But you know that..
>

What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
contacted well above the level of the net.

Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.

The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.

--
Cheers,

vc


31 Mar 2008 14:04:43
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 2:41=A0pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Lindsay Davenport
> > >> James Blake
> > >> Ivan Lendl
> > >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > >> Mary Pierce
>
> > >> Any one else you could think of?
>
> > > Connors.
>
> > > Rodjk #613
>
> > Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that=

> > matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> > think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> > Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> > --
> > Cheers,
>
> > vc
>
> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> it inside-out...but to =A0consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> is...well, strange.
>
> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
YEC final between Becker and him.


31 Mar 2008 14:06:13
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 3:54=A0pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Carey wrote:
>
> > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> >> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Lindsay Davenport
> >>>> James Blake
> >>>> Ivan Lendl
> >>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >>>> Mary Pierce
>
> >>>> Any one else you could think of?
> >>> Connors.
>
> >>> Rodjk #613
> >> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for tha=
t
> >> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> >> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> > Flat hitting lends itself to clean hitting because one is going
> > (relatively) straight thru
> > the ball rather than brushing up or down-and-thru to varying degrees.
> > More direct
> > contact for (probably) a longer period. =A0But you know that..
>
> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin.

There can be truly flat shots without any top spin at all. I have
until now never hit topspin my whole life. I either chip it, slice it
or hit flat. I despise topspin.

>Truly flat
> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



31 Mar 2008 14:17:04
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> Carey wrote:
> >
> > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> >> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Lindsay Davenport
> >>>> James Blake
> >>>> Ivan Lendl
> >>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >>>> Mary Pierce
> >>>>
> >>>> Any one else you could think of?
> >>> Connors.
> >>>
> >>> Rodjk #613
> >> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> >> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> >> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
> >
> > Flat hitting lends itself to clean hitting because one is going
> > (relatively) straight thru
> > the ball rather than brushing up or down-and-thru to varying degrees.
> > More direct
> > contact for (probably) a longer period. But you know that..
> >
>
> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc
Of course "flat" strokes have some topspin.. that's why I said
*relatively*.
As for contact period, that's an interesting question. My opinion was
based on
the ball and racket being in more-or-less the same plane for the
longest time
with the flatter stroke, but with today's string's and (say) Nadal's
technique,
I dunno..


31 Mar 2008 14:24:38
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Rodjk #613 wrote:
> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Lindsay Davenport
> > >> James Blake
> > >> Ivan Lendl
> > >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > >> Mary Pierce
> >
> > >> Any one else you could think of?
> >
> > > Connors.
> >
> > > Rodjk #613
> >
> > Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> > matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> > think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
> >
> > Bizarre, IMHO!
> >
> > --
> > Cheers,
> >
> > vc
>
> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> is...well, strange.
>
> Rodjk #613

Agree. Lendl was probably the first to hit with heavy top and huge
power.


31 Mar 2008 14:30:59
Rodjk #613
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Lindsay Davenport
> > > >> James Blake
> > > >> Ivan Lendl
> > > >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > > >> Mary Pierce
>
> > > >> Any one else you could think of?
>
> > > > Connors.
>
> > > > Rodjk #613
>
> > > Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
> > > matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
> > > think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> > > Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > vc
>
> > Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> > Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> > it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> > is...well, strange.
>
> > Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
> YEC final between Becker and him.

I saw those matches at the time.
Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.

Rodjk #613


31 Mar 2008 14:33:48
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 4:30=A0pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> > > > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > > > On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Lindsay Davenport
> > > > >> James Blake
> > > > >> Ivan Lendl
> > > > >> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > > > >> Mary Pierce
>
> > > > >> Any one else you could think of?
>
> > > > > Connors.
>
> > > > > Rodjk #613
>
> > > > Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for =
that
> > > > matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan woul=
d
> > > > think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>
> > > > Bizarre, IMHO!
>
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > vc
>
> > > Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> > > Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> > > it inside-out...but to =A0consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> > > is...well, strange.
>
> > > Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
> > YEC final between Becker and him.
>
> I saw those matches at the time.

You need to see them again.
> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>
> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

He did but he could hit both topspin and flat.


31 Mar 2008 23:00:08
Vari L. Cinicke
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Rodjk #613 wrote:
> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>>>> James Blake
>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>>>> Connors.
>>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for that
>>>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
>>>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
>>>> --
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> vc
>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
>>> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
>>> it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
>>> is...well, strange.
>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
>> YEC final between Becker and him.
>
> I saw those matches at the time.
> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>
> Rodjk #613

We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power. You
will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really fast with
tons of UEs.

--
Cheers,

vc


31 Mar 2008 16:10:35
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 6:00=A0pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net > wrote:
> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
> >>>>>> James Blake
> >>>>>> Ivan Lendl
> >>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >>>>>> Mary Pierce
> >>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
> >>>>> Connors.
> >>>>> Rodjk #613
> >>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for t=
hat
> >>>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would=

> >>>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
> >>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> vc
> >>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> >>> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
> >>> it inside-out...but to =A0consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
> >>> is...well, strange.
> >>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
> >> YEC final between Becker and him.
>
> > I saw those matches at the time.
> > Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>
> > Rodjk #613
>
> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power. You
> will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really fast with
> tons of UEs.

If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does, you
can forget about hitting flat strokes.

>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> vc- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -



31 Mar 2008 18:04:17
TennisGuy
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:54:34 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"


>What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
>hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
>contacted well above the level of the net.
>
>Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
>The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
>compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.


Well-stated.

If you are at the back of the court, chances are, unless you are 7
feet tall, you will hit a groundstroke with topspin or slice.

It's just plain physics, not tennis genius.

If you hit a flat stroke with any degree of power from the back of the
court, it will usually fly out of the court.

If you hit a flat stroke from the back of the court that's really
soft, sure you can get it in the court, but it will be a sitter for
your opponent.

Hence, a long time ago tennis players learned that if you hit the ball
with some topspin or slice, you can still get power/depth AND have the
ball land inside the court! What a great revelation that was for the
game of tennis.

.
.
.
*** The Sig below is automatically inserted by Teranews.
I do not endorse their products. ***

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



31 Mar 2008 19:58:46
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Raja wrote:
> On Mar 31, 6:00=EF=BF=BDpm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote=
:
> > Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > > On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> > >>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> > >>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
> > >>>>>> James Blake
> > >>>>>> Ivan Lendl
> > >>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> > >>>>>> Mary Pierce
> > >>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
> > >>>>> Connors.
> > >>>>> Rodjk #613
> > >>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for=
that
> > >>>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan wou=
ld
> > >>>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
> > >>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Cheers,
> > >>>> vc
> > >>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
> > >>> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for=

> > >>> it inside-out...but to =EF=BF=BDconsider Lendl as a flat ball hitter=

> > >>> is...well, strange.
> > >>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
> > >>> - Show quoted text -
> > >> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988=

> > >> YEC final between Becker and him.
> >
> > > I saw those matches at the time.
> > > Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
> >
> > > Rodjk #613
> >
> > We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power. You
> > will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really fast with
> > tons of UEs.
>
> If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
> ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does, you
> can forget about hitting flat strokes.
>
Assuming you are at the baseline, it takes a certain amount of 'lift'
to get the ball
to the other baseline, whether hit hard or softly, FH or BH. The lift
can come from
underspin or topspin. This assumes you are not simply moonballing.
=46rom what I have seen, Ken Rosewall and Jimmy Connors needed less lift
than
other players. Rosewall used minimal underspin; Connors would use
topspin,
underspin, and sidespin to keep the ball in court. If you can do what
they did, I certainly applaud you.


01 Apr 2008 14:50:16
DavidW
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

Carey wrote:
> Raja wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 6:00?pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>>>>>>> James Blake
>>>>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>>>>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>>>>>>> Connors.
>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice
>>>>>>> for that matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of
>>>>>>> tennis fan would think that top spin and slice are bullshit
>>>>>>> strokes?
>>>>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> vc
>>>>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that
>>>>>> group? Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially
>>>>>> when going for it inside-out...but to ?consider Lendl as a flat
>>>>>> ball hitter is...well, strange.
>>>>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch
>>>>> 1985/86/1988 YEC final between Becker and him.
>>>
>>>> I saw those matches at the time.
>>>> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>>>
>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>
>>> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power.
>>> You will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really
>>> fast with tons of UEs.
>>
>> If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
>> ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does,
>> you can forget about hitting flat strokes.
>>
> Assuming you are at the baseline, it takes a certain amount of 'lift'
> to get the ball
> to the other baseline, whether hit hard or softly, FH or BH. The lift
> can come from
> underspin or topspin.

Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes from having to
hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get it over the net.

> This assumes you are not simply moonballing.
> From what I have seen, Ken Rosewall and Jimmy Connors needed less lift
> than
> other players. Rosewall used minimal underspin; Connors would use
> topspin,
> underspin, and sidespin to keep the ball in court. If you can do what
> they did, I certainly applaud you.

Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You have much
less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it over the net and then
have it land in, and we often see backhand slices with hardly any power skim
over the net but float long.




31 Mar 2008 21:03:32
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



DavidW wrote:
> Carey wrote:
> > Raja wrote:
> >> On Mar 31, 6:00?pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>>> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
> >>>>>>>>> James Blake
> >>>>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
> >>>>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >>>>>>>>> Mary Pierce
> >>>>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
> >>>>>>>> Connors.
> >>>>>>>> Rodjk #613
> >>>>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice
> >>>>>>> for that matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of
> >>>>>>> tennis fan would think that top spin and slice are bullshit
> >>>>>>> strokes?
> >>>>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>> vc
> >>>>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that
> >>>>>> group? Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially
> >>>>>> when going for it inside-out...but to ?consider Lendl as a flat
> >>>>>> ball hitter is...well, strange.
> >>>>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch
> >>>>> 1985/86/1988 YEC final between Becker and him.
> >>>
> >>>> I saw those matches at the time.
> >>>> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
> >>>
> >>>> Rodjk #613
> >>>
> >>> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power.
> >>> You will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really
> >>> fast with tons of UEs.
> >>
> >> If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
> >> ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does,
> >> you can forget about hitting flat strokes.
> >>
> > Assuming you are at the baseline, it takes a certain amount of 'lift'
> > to get the ball
> > to the other baseline, whether hit hard or softly, FH or BH. The lift
> > can come from
> > underspin or topspin.
>
> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes from having to
> hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get it over the net.

> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid trajectory,
when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)

Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
factors enter:
the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
was
as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
not
use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...

>
> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You have much
> less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it over the net and then
> have it land in, and we often see backhand slices with hardly any power skim
> over the net but float long.



01 Apr 2008 15:26:14
DavidW
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

Carey wrote:
> DavidW wrote:
>> Carey wrote:
>>> Raja wrote:
>>>> On Mar 31, 6:00?pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>>>>>>>>> James Blake
>>>>>>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>>>>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>>>>>>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>>>>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>>>>>>>>> Connors.
>>>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>>>>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or
>>>>>>>>> slice for that matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what
>>>>>>>>> manner of tennis fan would think that top spin and slice are
>>>>>>>>> bullshit strokes?
>>>>>>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> vc
>>>>>>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that
>>>>>>>> group? Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially
>>>>>>>> when going for it inside-out...but to ?consider Lendl as a flat
>>>>>>>> ball hitter is...well, strange.
>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>>>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch
>>>>>>> 1985/86/1988 YEC final between Becker and him.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw those matches at the time.
>>>>>> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>>>
>>>>> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power.
>>>>> You will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really
>>>>> fast with tons of UEs.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
>>>> ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does,
>>>> you can forget about hitting flat strokes.
>>>>
>>> Assuming you are at the baseline, it takes a certain amount of
>>> 'lift' to get the ball
>>> to the other baseline, whether hit hard or softly, FH or BH. The
>>> lift can come from
>>> underspin or topspin.
>>
>> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes
>> from having to hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get
>> it over the net.
>
>> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid
>> trajectory,
> when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)

Well, the ball is on the way up in early and mid trajectory but not because of
the topspin, which is pulling the ball down from the moment you strike it.

> Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
> factors enter:
> the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
> was
> as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
> not
> use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...

I never said it was impotent. My response was confined to the physics of keeping
it in the court.

>
>>
>> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You
>> have much less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it
>> over the net and then have it land in, and we often see backhand
>> slices with hardly any power skim over the net but float long.




31 Mar 2008 21:41:30
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



DavidW wrote:
> Carey wrote:
> > DavidW wrote:
> >> Carey wrote:
> >>> Raja wrote:
> >>>> On Mar 31, 6:00?pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
> >>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>>>>> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
> >>>>>>>>>>> James Blake
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
> >>>>>>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Mary Pierce
> >>>>>>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
> >>>>>>>>>> Connors.
> >>>>>>>>>> Rodjk #613
> >>>>>>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or
> >>>>>>>>> slice for that matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what
> >>>>>>>>> manner of tennis fan would think that top spin and slice are
> >>>>>>>>> bullshit strokes?
> >>>>>>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>>>> vc
> >>>>>>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that
> >>>>>>>> group? Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially
> >>>>>>>> when going for it inside-out...but to ?consider Lendl as a flat
> >>>>>>>> ball hitter is...well, strange.
> >>>>>>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>>>>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch
> >>>>>>> 1985/86/1988 YEC final between Becker and him.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I saw those matches at the time.
> >>>>>> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Rodjk #613
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power.
> >>>>> You will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really
> >>>>> fast with tons of UEs.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you have a smaller racket headl like Lendl had and precision the
> >>>> ball wont fly. OTOH if you have a monster racket like Serena does,
> >>>> you can forget about hitting flat strokes.
> >>>>
> >>> Assuming you are at the baseline, it takes a certain amount of
> >>> 'lift' to get the ball
> >>> to the other baseline, whether hit hard or softly, FH or BH. The
> >>> lift can come from
> >>> underspin or topspin.
> >>
> >> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes
> >> from having to hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get
> >> it over the net.
> >
> >> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid
> >> trajectory,
> > when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)
>
> Well, the ball is on the way up in early and mid trajectory but not because of
> the topspin, which is pulling the ball down from the moment you strike it.
>
> > Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
> > factors enter:
> > the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
> > was
> > as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
> > not
> > use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...
>
> I never said it was impotent. My response was confined to the physics of keeping
> it in the court.
>
> >
> >>
> >> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You
> >> have much less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it
> >> over the net and then have it land in, and we often see backhand
> >> slices with hardly any power skim over the net but float long.

What do you think is lifting the ball up? God? The topspin, depending
on how you look at it, is *both*
lifting the ball up and pulling it down into the court. Maybe you are
a physicist- I am not-
but I think that's an adequate explanation of the forces at work. You
are 'right', but perhaps
it's a distinction without a difference? I guess you could say the
trajectory is 'letting'
the ball over the net and the spin is pulling it down into court. At
least you're interesting
to think with..


01 Apr 2008 16:04:27
DavidW
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

Carey wrote:
> DavidW wrote:
>> Carey wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes
>>>> from having to hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get
>>>> it over the net.
>>>
>>>> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid
>>>> trajectory,
>>> when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)
>>
>> Well, the ball is on the way up in early and mid trajectory but not
>> because of the topspin, which is pulling the ball down from the
>> moment you strike it.
>>
>>> Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
>>> factors enter:
>>> the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
>>> was
>>> as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
>>> not
>>> use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...
>>
>> I never said it was impotent. My response was confined to the
>> physics of keeping it in the court.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You
>>>> have much less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it
>>>> over the net and then have it land in, and we often see backhand
>>>> slices with hardly any power skim over the net but float long.
>
> What do you think is lifting the ball up?

Entirely the "up" component of the angle at which you hit the ball.

> God? The topspin, depending
> on how you look at it, is *both*
> lifting the ball up and pulling it down into the court. Maybe you are
> a physicist- I am not-
> but I think that's an adequate explanation of the forces at work.

No, I'm not a physicist, just a nobody from a backwards country at the arse-end
of the world.

> You
> are 'right', but perhaps
> it's a distinction without a difference? I guess you could say the
> trajectory is 'letting'
> the ball over the net and the spin is pulling it down into court. At
> least you're interesting
> to think with..

Thanks. As I see it, without spin you only have gravity to pull the back into
court. With topspin you have gravity as well as the air pulling it down. It
takes time for gravity alone to overcome the upward trajectory to a point where
the ball heads back down, and less time for gravity and topspin to do that
together. At every point in the ball's flight (except the point of contact) a
topspun ball would be lower than a ball with no spin hit from the same position
at the same angle and speed.




31 Mar 2008 22:16:24
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



DavidW wrote:
> Carey wrote:
> > DavidW wrote:
> >> Carey wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes
> >>>> from having to hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get
> >>>> it over the net.
> >>>
> >>>> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid
> >>>> trajectory,
> >>> when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)
> >>
> >> Well, the ball is on the way up in early and mid trajectory but not
> >> because of the topspin, which is pulling the ball down from the
> >> moment you strike it.
> >>
> >>> Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
> >>> factors enter:
> >>> the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
> >>> was
> >>> as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
> >>> not
> >>> use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...
> >>
> >> I never said it was impotent. My response was confined to the
> >> physics of keeping it in the court.
> >>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You
> >>>> have much less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it
> >>>> over the net and then have it land in, and we often see backhand
> >>>> slices with hardly any power skim over the net but float long.
> >
> > What do you think is lifting the ball up?
>
> Entirely the "up" component of the angle at which you hit the ball.
>
> > God? The topspin, depending
> > on how you look at it, is *both*
> > lifting the ball up and pulling it down into the court. Maybe you are
> > a physicist- I am not-
> > but I think that's an adequate explanation of the forces at work.
>
> No, I'm not a physicist, just a nobody from a backwards country at the arse-end
> of the world.
>
> > You
> > are 'right', but perhaps
> > it's a distinction without a difference? I guess you could say the
> > trajectory is 'letting'
> > the ball over the net and the spin is pulling it down into court. At
> > least you're interesting
> > to think with..
>
> Thanks. As I see it, without spin you only have gravity to pull the back into
> court. With topspin you have gravity as well as the air pulling it down. It
> takes time for gravity alone to overcome the upward trajectory to a point where
> the ball heads back down, and less time for gravity and topspin to do that
> together. At every point in the ball's flight (except the point of contact) a
> topspun ball would be lower than a ball with no spin hit from the same position
> at the same angle and speed.


31 Mar 2008 22:24:24
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Carey wrote:
> DavidW wrote:
> > Carey wrote:
> > > DavidW wrote:
> > >> Carey wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Strictly speaking you don't get lift from topspin. The lift comes
> > >>>> from having to hit a topspin shot higher than a flatter shot to get
> > >>>> it over the net.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Yes, you certainly *do get lift* from topspin- in early and mid
> > >>>> trajectory,
> > >>> when you're trying to get the ball over the dang net. :-)
> > >>
> > >> Well, the ball is on the way up in early and mid trajectory but not
> > >> because of the topspin, which is pulling the ball down from the
> > >> moment you strike it.
> > >>
> > >>> Agree that you have less margin for error w/ underspin, but other
> > >>> factors enter:
> > >>> the ball stays low and skids to opponent, to name one. If underspin
> > >>> was
> > >>> as impotent as you seem to suggest, s/v and all--court players would
> > >>> not
> > >>> use it as the attacking shot it is, in good hands...
> > >>
> > >> I never said it was impotent. My response was confined to the
> > >> physics of keeping it in the court.
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Underspin will just make it more likely to float out of court. You
> > >>>> have much less margin of error with it than topspin to both get it
> > >>>> over the net and then have it land in, and we often see backhand
> > >>>> slices with hardly any power skim over the net but float long.
> > >
> > > What do you think is lifting the ball up?
> >
> > Entirely the "up" component of the angle at which you hit the ball.
> >
> > > God? The topspin, depending
> > > on how you look at it, is *both*
> > > lifting the ball up and pulling it down into the court. Maybe you are
> > > a physicist- I am not-
> > > but I think that's an adequate explanation of the forces at work.
> >
> > No, I'm not a physicist, just a nobody from a backwards country at the arse-end
> > of the world.
> >
> > > You
> > > are 'right', but perhaps
> > > it's a distinction without a difference? I guess you could say the
> > > trajectory is 'letting'
> > > the ball over the net and the spin is pulling it down into court. At
> > > least you're interesting
> > > to think with..
> >
> > Thanks. As I see it, without spin you only have gravity to pull the back into
> > court. With topspin you have gravity as well as the air pulling it down. It
> > takes time for gravity alone to overcome the upward trajectory to a point where
> > the ball heads back down, and less time for gravity and topspin to do that
> > together. At every point in the ball's flight (except the point of contact) a
> > topspun ball would be lower than a ball with no spin hit from the same position
> > at the same angle and speed.

Yeah, you're right- that's what actually happens. I like my
explanation better though. :-)


01 Apr 2008 19:27:00
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Vari L. Cinicke wrote: >>
>
> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>


I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.

Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?





01 Apr 2008 19:45:11
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Vari L. Cinicke wrote:
> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>> On Mar 31, 4:04 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Mar 31, 2:41 pm, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 1:03 pm, "Vari L. Cinicke" <cini...@netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>> Rodjk #613 wrote:
>>>>>> On Mar 31, 10:20 am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lindsay Davenport
>>>>>>> James Blake
>>>>>>> Ivan Lendl
>>>>>>> Maria Sharapova (early)
>>>>>>> Mary Pierce
>>>>>>> Any one else you could think of?
>>>>>> Connors.
>>>>>> Rodjk #613
>>>>> Why does anyone think that clean hitting and top spin (or slice for
>>>>> that
>>>>> matter) are mutually exclusive? Also, what manner of tennis fan would
>>>>> think that top spin and slice are bullshit strokes?
>>>>> Bizarre, IMHO!
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> vc
>>>> Even more bizarre to me; why would he include Lendl in that group?
>>>> Ok, Lendl was known to flatten out his FH, especially when going for
>>>> it inside-out...but to consider Lendl as a flat ball hitter
>>>> is...well, strange.
>>>> Rodjk #613- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> You have never seen Lendl play on carpet have you. Watch 1985/86/1988
>>> YEC final between Becker and him.
>>
>> I saw those matches at the time.
>> Lendl had huge power, and lots of topspin.
>>
>> Rodjk #613
>
> We all know what will happen if you hit flat and with huge power. You
> will have a few spectacular winners and lose the match really fast with
> tons of UEs.
>


...either that or win 14 slams, 7 Wimbledons, 6 yrs No.1 etc.

Good insight.



01 Apr 2008 03:38:33
Carey
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat



Whisper wrote:
> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
> >
> > What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> > hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> > contacted well above the level of the net.
> >
> > Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
> >
> > The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> > compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
> >
>
>
> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>
> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?

So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
saw Sappras play.


01 Apr 2008 22:16:19
john
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)


"number_six" <cyberiade@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:7c51fcd8-3a01-4d1b-84c1-e90639ee107c@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 31, 7:55 am, ulys...@mscomm.com wrote:
> Mecir.

And to a degree, Kucera and Hrbaty. It's the Slovak style.

Hantuchova also has pretty flat strokes on both forehand and backhand wings




01 Apr 2008 11:24:19
Dave Hazelwood
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 03:38:33 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>
>
>Whisper wrote:
>> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
>> >
>> > What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
>> > hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
>> > contacted well above the level of the net.
>> >
>> > Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>> >
>> > The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
>> > compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>> >
>>
>>
>> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
>> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>>
>> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>
>So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
>saw Sappras play.

Not tennis but he has "played" with him a lot at his house. Remember
his "threesomes" with Pete and Bridget ?

Actually Bridget was there just to lend some credibility to Whispers
attraction to Pete, if you get my drift.


01 Apr 2008 22:47:50
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Carey wrote:
>
> Whisper wrote:
>> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
>>> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
>>> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
>>> contacted well above the level of the net.
>>>
>>> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>>>
>>> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
>>> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>>>
>>
>> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
>> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>>
>> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>
> So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
> saw Sappras play.



lol - are you serious?



01 Apr 2008 05:00:08
Rodjk #613
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Apr 1, 6:47 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au > wrote:
> Carey wrote:
>
> > Whisper wrote:
> >> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
> >>> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> >>> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> >>> contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> >>> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> >>> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> >>> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>
> >> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
> >> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>
> >> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>
> > So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
> > saw Sappras play.
>
> lol - are you serious?

Yes, he is serious. Did you ever actually see Sampras play?
Like Lendl, he could flatten out his shots when he went for winners,
but he hit topspin strokes.

Are you just trolling again, or are you really this dense?

Rodjk #613


01 Apr 2008 23:11:30
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Rodjk #613 wrote:
> On Apr 1, 6:47 am, Whisper <beaver...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> Carey wrote:
>>
>>> Whisper wrote:
>>>> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
>>>>> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
>>>>> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
>>>>> contacted well above the level of the net.
>>>>> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>>>>> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
>>>>> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>>>> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
>>>> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>>>> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>>> So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
>>> saw Sappras play.
>> lol - are you serious?
>
> Yes, he is serious. Did you ever actually see Sampras play?
> Like Lendl, he could flatten out his shots when he went for winners,
> but he hit topspin strokes.
>
> Are you just trolling again, or are you really this dense?
>
> Rodjk #613


Compared to current players Sampras hit flat as a tack.



01 Apr 2008 07:30:52
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 5:04=A0pm, TennisGuy <Ten...@Somewhere.com > wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:54:34 GMT, "Vari L. Cinicke"
>
> >What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> >hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> >contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> >Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> >The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> >compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>
> =A0 Well-stated.
>
> If you are at the back of the court, chances are, unless you are 7
> feet tall, you will hit a groundstroke with topspin or slice.
>
> It's just plain physics, not tennis genius.
>
> If you hit a flat stroke with any degree of power from the back of the
> court, it will usually fly out of the court.

Not necessarily if you can control it. Truly gifted players like
Lendl, Davenport can do that. But it is highly risky.

I have never used topspin my whole life and hit so many winners (some
of which are blinders). I dont think I even know how to hit topspin.

>
> If you hit a flat stroke from the back of the court that's really
> soft,

If it is a flat stroke it cannot be soft. Unless you call a chip or a
block as a flat stokes. To me flat strokes are primarily hit for
hitting winners. I dont know what your definition is.

>sure you can get it in the court, but it will be a sitter for
> your opponent.
>
> Hence, a long time ago tennis players learned that if you hit the ball
> with some topspin or slice, you can still get power/depth AND have the
> ball land inside the court! =A0What a great revelation that was for the
> game of tennis.
>
> .
> .
> .
> *** =A0The Sig below is automatically inserted by Teranews.
> I do not endorse their products. ***
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com



01 Apr 2008 07:32:05
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Apr 1, 5:38=A0am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Whisper wrote:
> > Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
>
> > > What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
> > > hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
> > > contacted well above the level of the net.
>
> > > Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>
> > > The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
> > > compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>
> > I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he=

> > managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>
> > Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>
> So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
> saw Sappras play.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sampras had a lot of top spin on the backhand. And his forehand was
only ocassionally flat.


01 Apr 2008 16:25:07
TennisGuy
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat strokes)

On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT), Raja <zepfloyes@gmail.com >
wrote:


>If it is a flat stroke it cannot be soft. Unless you call a chip or a
>block as a flat stokes. To me flat strokes are primarily hit for
>hitting winners. I dont know what your definition is.


My definition of a flat stroke is simple. A shot that has no spin on
the ball.

A flat stroke can be hard (high velocity) or soft (low velocity).
Chipping a ball will result in ball spin and therefore a chip shot
cannot be a flat shot.

You can hit a soft flat stroke by blocking a shot back or hitting
'softly' (pushing) a ball that has lost most of its forward momentum
and is basically just sitting there.

.
.
.
*** The Sig below is automatically inserted by Teranews.
I do not endorse their products. ***

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com



01 Apr 2008 13:29:14
Raja
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Apr 1, 3:25=A0pm, TennisGuy <Ten...@Somewhere.com > wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT), Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >If it is a flat stroke it cannot be soft. Unless you call a chip or a
> >block as a flat stokes. To me flat strokes are primarily hit for
> >hitting winners. I dont know what your definition is.
>
> =A0 My definition of a flat stroke is simple. A shot that has no spin on
> the ball.
>
> A flat stroke can be hard (high velocity) or soft (low velocity).
> Chipping a ball will result in ball spin and therefore a chip shot
> cannot be a flat shot.
>
> You can hit a soft flat stroke by blocking a shot back or hitting
> 'softly' (pushing) a ball that has lost most of its forward momentum
> and is basically just sitting there.
>
Okay I wasnt talking about the block then. Block is primarily a
defensive shot. I am talking about the attacking flat shot. the one
that clears the net by inches and makes it impossible for the opponent
to run it down.

> .
> .
> .
> *** =A0The Sig below is automatically inserted by Teranews.
> I do not endorse their products. ***
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com



01 Apr 2008 14:51:16
Robert Pickton
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 5:20 pm, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Lindsay Davenport
> James Blake
> Ivan Lendl
> Maria Sharapova (early)
> Mary Pierce
>
> Any one else you could think of?

Korda


01 Apr 2008 17:46:09
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

On Mar 31, 8:20=A0am, Raja <zepflo...@gmail.com > wrote:
> Lindsay Davenport
> James Blake
> Ivan Lendl
> Maria Sharapova (early)
> Mary Pierce
>
> Any one else you could think of?

Davydenko....


02 Apr 2008 17:38:12
Whisper
Re: Cleanest hitters (not topspin or slice bullshit, just plain flat

Raja wrote:
> On Apr 1, 5:38 am, Carey <carey_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Whisper wrote:
>>> Vari L. Cinicke wrote:>>
>>>> What people call flat hitting is shots with some top spin. Truly flat
>>>> hitting doesn't allow one to hit with decent power unless the ball is
>>>> contacted well above the level of the net.
>>>> Contact times are probably longest on Nadalesque topspin shots.
>>>> The cleaner hit on relatively flat shots comes with a price in
>>>> compromising power and control, a potent combination to give up.
>>> I doubt anyone would describe Sampras as an excessive topspinner, yet he
>>> managed to produce crushing power just fine with flat strokes.
>>> Aww whatsa matter Vari - upset that Fed can't do it?
>> So the Lisper thinks SupperSappras had "flat strokes"? Doubt he ever
>> saw Sappras play.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Sampras had a lot of top spin on the backhand. And his forehand was
> only ocassionally flat.


Moron