29 Oct 2004 13:36:15
Simone Ritchie
Baseliners historically more versatile than serve volleyers

Considering clay as slow, HC/grass (AO,USO, FO) as fast.

Here is a list of champions who won on both surfaces multiple times.

The best among men.

1. Bjorn Borg - 5 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
2. Ivan Lendl - 3 on both fast (USO) and slow (FO)
3. Mats Wilander - 3 on both fast (AO) and slow (FO)
4. Rod Laver - 2 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
5. Rene Lacoste - 2 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
6. Henri Cochet - 2 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
7. Roy Emerson - 2 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
8. Ken Rosewall - 2 on both fast (USO) and slow (FO)
9. Jean Borotra - 2 on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
10. Jim Courier - 2 on both fast (AO) and slow (FO)

Apart from Emerson and Laver all others are baseliners. So baseliners
are more versatile than serve volleyers through out the history of
tennis.

It should also be noted that Laver only won 1 FO in Open Era. And
Emerson won both FO as a amatuer era. If we discount amateur
achievements, then the *ONLY* time a serve volleyer won in a slow
surface as well as a fast surface in his career was Rod Laver (1969).

Lets look at the women.

1. Steffi Graf - 6 times on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
2. Suzanne Lenglen - 6 times on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
3. Margaret Smith - 5 times on both fast (USO) and slow (FO)
4. Chris Evert - 5 times on both fast (AO+Wim) and slow (FO)
5. Helen Wills - 4 times on both fast (Wim) and slow (FO)
6. Monica Seles - 3 times on both fast (AO) and slow (FO)
7. Maureen Connolly - 2 times on both fast (AO+Wim) and slow (FO)
8. Martina Navratilova - 2 times on both fast (AO+Wim) and slow (FO)
9. Margaret duPont - 2 time on both fast (USO) and slow (FO)

Again only 2 serve volleyers, Margaret Smith and Martina Navratilova.
And Martina Navratilova once won when Chris Evert got upset in semis
and once when Chris Evert was playing with wooden racket and she was
playing with graphite racket.

So the only 2 *real* versatile serve volleyers of all time are Rod
Laver and Margaret Smith.


30 Oct 2004 19:12:32
samn
Re: Baseliners historically more versatile than serve volleyers

srbabe2000@yahoo.com (Simone Ritchie) wrote in
news:376ed7b2.0410291236.6e0944cd@posting.google.com:

> Again only 2 serve volleyers, Margaret Smith and Martina Navratilova.
> And Martina Navratilova once won when Chris Evert got upset in semis
> and once when Chris Evert was playing with wooden racket and she was
> playing with graphite racket.

Actually, Evert switched to a graphite racquet at the start of 1984
*before* Navratilova whipped her 6-3 6-1 in the French final. It is
possible, however, that it took Evert a while to adjust to her new racquet
because she fared progressively better against her arch rival.

FO: Navratilova d. Evert 6-3 6-1
W: Navratilova d. Evert 7-6 6-2
USO: Navratilova d. Evert 4-6 6-4 6-4
FO (1985): Evert d. Navratilova 6-3 6-7 7-5

___________________________

samn <at > techie <dot> com


31 Oct 2004 21:45:16
Edwardo
Re: Baseliners historically more versatile than serve volleyers


"Simone Ritchie" <srbabe2000@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:376ed7b2.0410291236.6e0944cd@posting.google.com...

> Considering clay as slow, HC/grass (AO,USO, FO) as fast.

Which is such a generalisation that it renders your stats meaningless.




01 Nov 2004 06:42:34
A.J. Rivett
Re: Baseliners historically more versatile than serve volleyers

>
> Apart from Emerson and Laver all others are baseliners. So baseliners
> are more versatile than serve volleyers through out the history of
> tennis.
>

To be fair, there haven't been many serve-volleyers in recent years.
Hardly any female players use this style of play. There are just too
few even on the men's side to make generalizations about their play.
In recent years only Becker, McEnroe and Edberg were classic
serve-volleyers. Sampras was more serve the bomb and put away the
junk return although if you want to call him a serve-volleyer, go
ahead.

I haven't seen one guy who depends heavily on his serve have a really
long career like Connors or Agassi. Must have something to do with
the perfect timing and foot speed that such a game requires. Lose
even a fraction of this and it's end of career. It was really
noticeable with Edberg and I think with Sampras also. Even with his
end of career USO win, Sampras didn't win anything else for the last 2
years of his career and he retired at 31. Becker and McEnroe also had
their salad day while really young.


01 Nov 2004 08:39:54
Rowdy Rocky
Re: Baseliners historically more versatile than serve volleyers

"Edwardo" <edster@hotmail.comNOT > wrote in message news:<41855ceb$1@news1.homechoice.co.uk>...
> "Simone Ritchie" <srbabe2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:376ed7b2.0410291236.6e0944cd@posting.google.com...
>
> > Considering clay as slow, HC/grass (AO,USO, FO) as fast.
>
> Which is such a generalisation that it renders your stats meaningless.

Any tennis literate knows grass is fast and clay is slow. There is no
generalization here.