23 Nov 2004 13:03:42
Johanna Ehrmann
proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=27717

They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
Waltz 8, adding power change of edge pulls to Silver, moving the Slide
Chassee pattern to Gold and dumping the Novice move from Gold.

And some stuff about grandfathering of moves tests from the standard
track.

These would still need to be approved by the Governing Council, and
wouldn't go into effect til Sept. '05.

Johanna


23 Nov 2004 18:50:38
Fiona McQuarrie
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Johanna Ehrmann <johanna@herworkplace.com > wrote:
: http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=27717

: They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
: Waltz 8, adding power change of edge pulls to Silver, moving the Slide
: Chassee pattern to Gold and dumping the Novice move from Gold.

I don't know about the other suggestions, but the alternating 3s seem to
be a really big problem for a lot of people doing Pre-Bronze MITF. This
change would seem to be a good idea that might encourage more people to
try the MITF tests.

Fiona


23 Nov 2004 16:01:22
GordonSk8erBoi
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Johanna Ehrmann <johanna@herworkplace.com > wrote in message news:<231120041303420859%johanna@herworkplace.com>...
> http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=27717
>
> They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
> Waltz 8, adding power change of edge pulls to Silver, moving the Slide
> Chassee pattern to Gold and dumping the Novice move from Gold.
>
> And some stuff about grandfathering of moves tests from the standard
> track.
>
> These would still need to be approved by the Governing Council, and
> wouldn't go into effect til Sept. '05.

Dang! This will probably be too late for me. I was hoping to test
APB in May... Although I guess this means if I don't have the
alternating 3s by May, I can wait 'til September when I won't need
them...

Of course, I'll still need to learn 'em anyway, and this might not
pass.

Gordon Zaft
GordonSk8erBoi@yahoo.com
http://sk8rboi.blogspot.com


24 Nov 2004 01:57:13
Isiafs5
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

>They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
>Waltz 8,

This is just plain silly. Water down, water down, water down.

It seems to me that a skating test should expect people to learn how to skate.

I will NEVER test the adult track.


Sling Skate

My recommended reading for body fat control:
http://www.geocities.com/~slopitch/drsquat/fredzig.htm












24 Nov 2004 09:16:26
Joanna Tsang Ramberg
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Keep in mind also that there is also an option for those who took the
MITF test on the standard track to transfer over to the Adult track.

So...if you wanna do standard track instead, go right ahead and do
it!!!

I still am not clear on the AB Moves test what is considered to be
a demonstration of "strength and flow" vs. "power." I thought they were
one and the same! :-P

Cheers,
Joanna

Isiafs5 wrote:
>
> >They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
> >Waltz 8,
>
> This is just plain silly. Water down, water down, water down.
>
> It seems to me that a skating test should expect people to learn how to skate.
>
> I will NEVER test the adult track.
>
> Sling Skate
>
> My recommended reading for body fat control:
> http://www.geocities.com/~slopitch/drsquat/fredzig.htm

--

Reply to me at "jramberg" at <that email site at Microsoft >
Don't want no scrubs (or SPAM!!!) :-)


24 Nov 2004 11:51:28
Mrs Redboots
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Isiafs5 wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24 Nov 2004:

>>They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
>>Waltz 8,
>
>This is just plain silly. Water down, water down, water down.
>
>It seems to me that a skating test should expect people to learn how to skate.
>
>I will NEVER test the adult track.
>
Water down? The alternating 3s are MUCH easier!!!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004




24 Nov 2004 07:34:07
Renata
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Are we talking about the same moves here? It took me all of couple
weeks to do nice waltz 8, but over a year to get to a point where I can
see that I will (eventually) be able to master alt 3s.

--Renata

Mrs Redboots wrote:

> Water down? The alternating 3s are MUCH easier!!!



24 Nov 2004 17:12:46
William Schneider
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

<<It took me all of couple
weeks to do nice waltz 8, but over a year to get to a point where I can
see that I will (eventually) be able to master alt 3s. >>

I agree with this. I found the alternating threes devilishly difficult. I
got through the test OK but those were the hardest part about Pre-Bronze.
Waltz 8's didn't require the "contortion" at the line but still needed a
good check after the three to get around the rest of the pattern.

There are two other adults at my local rink preparing for the Adult PB test,
and they are encountering the same frustration that I did with the alt-3's.
One of the skaters will probably take advantage of the new rules, but the
other skater is within a couple of months of being ready for her PB test -
alt-3's and all. Personally I think they belong a level higher than where
they are now to prevent adult skater burnout before mastering their first
moves test -- which after all, is an encouragement test.

Lately I've been working the Inside Slide Chassee pattern from Adult Silver
and LOVE doing it. I hope I can pass Silver moves before that goes to Gold.

Bill Schneider




24 Nov 2004 18:00:32
Mrs Redboots
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Renata wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24 Nov 2004:

>Are we talking about the same moves here? It took me all of couple
>weeks to do nice waltz 8, but over a year to get to a point where I can
>see that I will (eventually) be able to master alt 3s.
>
Oh, they are much, much easier - especially as you only have to do a
width of them! We have to do a whole *lap*.....
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004




24 Nov 2004 10:43:34
GordonSk8erBoi
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Mrs Redboots <Mrs_Redboots@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote in message news:<8DqUbZDAXHpBFwg1@amsmyth.demon.co.uk>...
> Water down? The alternating 3s are MUCH easier!!!

You have GOT to be kidding, or mistaken, or something. For one thing
the Waltz-8 only requires FO3s. The alternating 3s require both FO3
and FI3s, AND that nasty BI Choctaw.

If this rule change takes effect, FI3s will not be tested until adult
silver.

Gordon Zaft
GordonSk8erBoi@yahoo.com
http://sk8rboi.blogspot.com


24 Nov 2004 19:07:12
Mrs Redboots
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

GordonSk8erBoi wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24
Nov 2004:

>Mrs Redboots <Mrs_Redboots@amsmyth.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>message news:<8DqUbZDAXHpBFwg1@amsmyth.demon.co.uk>...
>> Water down? The alternating 3s are MUCH easier!!!
>
> You have GOT to be kidding, or mistaken, or something. For one thing
>the Waltz-8 only requires FO3s. The alternating 3s require both FO3
>and FI3s, AND that nasty BI Choctaw.

Surely it is only a step to forwards, not a choctaw?
>
> If this rule change takes effect, FI3s will not be tested until adult
>silver.
>
We don't have Adult tests, and our FI3s are a level higher than our
FO3s, but I still can't do a waltz 8 to save my life (not that I have to
in this country - it's totally unknown here, either as a figure or as a
field move), and I can do (relatively) respectable alternating 3s.
Especially FO ones. But you guys don't know you're born only having to
do them across the rink - when you have to do a whole lap.... I could
probably pass a test where I was only required to do them across the
width, but I certainly couldn't if I had to do a whole length!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004




24 Nov 2004 14:21:14
GordonSk8erBoi
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Mrs Redboots <Mrs_Redboots@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote in message news:<wLiXZLIgvNpBFwB1@amsmyth.demon.co.uk>...
> GordonSk8erBoi wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24
> Nov 2004:
>
> >Mrs Redboots <Mrs_Redboots@amsmyth.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> >message news:<8DqUbZDAXHpBFwg1@amsmyth.demon.co.uk>...
> >> Water down? The alternating 3s are MUCH easier!!!
> >
> > You have GOT to be kidding, or mistaken, or something. For one thing
> >the Waltz-8 only requires FO3s. The alternating 3s require both FO3
> >and FI3s, AND that nasty BI Choctaw.
>
> Surely it is only a step to forwards, not a choctaw?

It's a back choctaw, which is a step forward, but in my (and others',
I think) experience the step forward from a BI edge to FO edge (i.e.
BI choctaw) is the hardest, and in some ways is harder than the
preceding 3.

A choctaw is a turn on two feet that changes edge. Forward or
backward it's still a choctaw, though I know many people just call
them all a "step forward" as you do.
> >
> > If this rule change takes effect, FI3s will not be tested until adult
> >silver.
> >
> We don't have Adult tests, and our FI3s are a level higher than our
> FO3s, but I still can't do a waltz 8 to save my life (not that I have to
> in this country - it's totally unknown here, either as a figure or as a
> field move), and I can do (relatively) respectable alternating 3s.
> Especially FO ones. But you guys don't know you're born only having to
> do them across the rink - when you have to do a whole lap.... I could
> probably pass a test where I was only required to do them across the
> width, but I certainly couldn't if I had to do a whole length!

Wow. I guess I just can't understand how you can do alternating 3s
and not a Waltz 8. Just to clarify for everyone, the alternating 3
pattern I'm talking about is 4-6 lobes down the width of the ice,
across the ice doing FO3s and then back the width of the ice doing
FI3s. And of course changing feet for every lobe. So for example it
would be RFO3 -- > RBI choctaw --> LFO3 -->LBI choctaw etc. across the
rink, then coming back, say LFI3 -- > LBO choctaw --> RFI3 --> RBO
choctaw. To me that's a lot harder then a waltz 8, since that's
basically, say, LFO3 -- > step to RBO --> RBO mohawk, then at the
circle step to RFO, RFO3 -- > step to LBO --> LBO mohawk.

I guess maybe it's just different strokes for different folks, or
what you're used to, or whatever. Or is the alternating 3s you're
talking about different? When I told a friend (who just passed her
APB moves test a few months ago) about the proposed change, the very
first thing she said was how she'd spent a YEAR working on those
alternating 3s.

Gordon Zaft
GordonSk8erBoi@yahoo.com
http://sk8rboi.blogspot.com


24 Nov 2004 22:37:12
William Schneider
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

There might be some confusion about the move as it is performed in this
country compared to your requirements. Echoing many others here, it seems
strange to me that you find the waltz eight pattern more difficult than the
alternating-3's. It's possible, of course.

I've uploaded a diagram of the USFSA alternating forward 3-turn pattern to
my humble web server (please stay running!!). You can compare it to your
concept of the move to see if there's any difference.

http://www-schneider.viscom.ohiou.edu/skating/images/alt-3s.jpg


Bill Schneider




24 Nov 2004 16:50:21
e-skater
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

isiafs5@aol.com (Isiafs5) wrote in message news:<20041123205713.21510.00001032@mb-m11.aol.com >...
> >They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
> >Waltz 8,
>
> This is just plain silly. Water down, water down, water down.
>
> It seems to me that a skating test should expect people to learn how to skate.
>
> I will NEVER test the adult track.
>
>
> Sling Skate
>
Can't say that I blame you. I do feel it's where I belong, as haven't
skated all my life and don't feel capable of "doing what the kids do".

While I think that the APB change is a good one, as Waltz 8 is closer,
in my opinion, to the other elements on the test, the one thing I
don't like is the elimination of the "P" word......"strength and
flow"? Ok, those are good qualities, but every judge I have heard
talk about "adult skating" complaints there is no power and little
speed. So, take "power" out as any part of a focus criteria for a
test element? Hmmmmm


25 Nov 2004 03:13:24
skaternum
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Obviously you've never tested moves in the field at all. Those 3s are
tough, especially for wide-hipped adult female skaters with back problems.
:-) Having them at *pre-bronze* was ridiculous. Skaters were
bottlenecking at *pre-bronze* fercryingoutloud. What kind of encouragement
test is that?

skaternum

"Isiafs5" <isiafs5@aol.com > wrote in message
news:20041123205713.21510.00001032@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
> >Waltz 8,
>
> This is just plain silly. Water down, water down, water down.
>
> It seems to me that a skating test should expect people to learn how to
skate.
>
> I will NEVER test the adult track.
>
>




25 Nov 2004 03:21:20
skaternum
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

> While I think that the APB change is a good one, as Waltz 8 is closer,
> in my opinion, to the other elements on the test, the one thing I
> don't like is the elimination of the "P" word......"strength and
> flow"? Ok, those are good qualities, but every judge I have heard
> talk about "adult skating" complaints there is no power and little
> speed. So, take "power" out as any part of a focus criteria for a
> test element? Hmmmmm

So what is so wrong about acknowledging that adults simply don't have the
power that younger skaters do? If we're not going to gear the tests towards
adult skaters and their bodies, why bother to have adult tests at all? I
think it's perfectly reasonable to expect an adult to exhibit strength and
flow, but unreasonable to expect power. We're not all a bunch of 25 year
olds. Some people will be taking these tests at 40, 50, 60. There's no
shame in acknowledging that our bodies change as we get older, and there's
no shame in designing a test structure to address that. That's why the
whole adult skating track was created! Skaters who feel they're too "easy"
are welcome to test standard track.

skaternum




25 Nov 2004 08:30:17
Mrs Redboots
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

GordonSk8erBoi wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24
Nov 2004:

> Wow. I guess I just can't understand how you can do alternating 3s
>and not a Waltz 8. Just to clarify for everyone, the alternating 3
>pattern I'm talking about is 4-6 lobes down the width of the ice,
>across the ice doing FO3s and then back the width of the ice doing
>FI3s. And of course changing feet for every lobe. So for example it
>would be RFO3 --> RBI choctaw --> LFO3 -->LBI choctaw etc. across the
>rink, then coming back, say LFI3 --> LBO choctaw --> RFI3 --> RBO
>choctaw. To me that's a lot harder then a waltz 8, since that's
>basically, say, LFO3 --> step to RBO --> RBO mohawk, then at the
>circle step to RFO, RFO3 --> step to LBO --> LBO mohawk.
>
Well, here it's RFO3, step to LFO3, step to RFO3, which may or may not
be different. For the Moves test you have to do them down the length of
the rink, then run or do crossovers round the end, then back down the
other length. The inside 3 ones have a back crossover, but it doesn't
make them any easier, as each lobe - both lobes of the 3 and both edges
of the crossover - have to be roughly the same size. I am not sure
whether it is in the same level test or not.

But the waltz 3 is a totally unknown quantity. I have, when encouraged
by visiting American friends, tried to do it - yeurch. It's impossible!
Would take years to get it to a good passing standard.....

And yes, you would expect to take at least a year to master alternating
3s, to say nothing of the other moves required. Husband has his test
papers in for his Level 3 Dance Moves - should test on Tuesday, do think
of him - which is only 2 laps of the rink, back cross-rolls and back
cross-cuts, and he's been working on them for at least 18 months. If
not 2 years. I worked for my Level 2, although I didn't actually have
to test it, first, so I am behind him, and I know it's going to be at
least another year before I'm ready to test Level 3!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004




25 Nov 2004 08:32:14
Mrs Redboots
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

William Schneider wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Wed, 24
Nov 2004:

>There might be some confusion about the move as it is performed in this
>country compared to your requirements. Echoing many others here, it seems
>strange to me that you find the waltz eight pattern more difficult than the
>alternating-3's. It's possible, of course.
>
>I've uploaded a diagram of the USFSA alternating forward 3-turn pattern to
>my humble web server (please stay running!!). You can compare it to your
>concept of the move to see if there's any difference.
>
>http://www-schneider.viscom.ohiou.edu/skating/images/alt-3s.jpg
>
I think your alternating 3s are probably easier than ours, as you only
have to do them across the rink. Try sustaining them for a whole lap of
outside and then of inside ones!

And, as I said, the waltz 8 is unknown here, but I have tried it -
impossible! Whereas I can do alternating FO3s, although not to passing
standard, and find them a *lot* easier!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 22 November 2004




25 Nov 2004 10:24:46
Renata
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US



Mrs Redboots wrote:

>
> But the waltz 3 is a totally unknown quantity. I have, when encouraged
> by visiting American friends, tried to do it - yeurch. It's impossible!
> Would take years to get it to a good passing standard.....

The passing standard on these is very low, actually. You do not even
have to come back exactly to the center to pass this move! As long as
you can somewhat do a FO 3-turn, hold the BI edge for a second or so,
and neatly step to BO edge and then to FO (again, neatly) with even
cadence - you pass it. The girl I skate with, IMHO, has quite weak
waltz 8, but coach says they are passing quality for pre-pre test here
(regular track). Without warm-up my RFO 3 also sucks, I'd fall out of
BI edge if I'd have to hold it longer, but again - for this move, what I
have is enough.

>
> And yes, you would expect to take at least a year to master alternating
> 3s, to say nothing of the other moves required.

The sad thing in my case is that I skated 5 years as a child (with 15
years break afterward), and actually vaquely remember doing figures that
involve 3-turns, and it still took me a year to get to the point where I
can at least see that I WILL get the alt-3s to standard track test
quality, without toe tapping, brief 2-footing or crossover before the
step forward (I think the former two are allowed on adult test). I do
them quite nicely with toe-tap or crossover :)

--Renata



25 Nov 2004 10:45:10
e-skater
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

"skaternum" <skaternum@nospam.nc.rr.com > wrote in message news:<Qccpd.753$Mu3.239085@twister.southeast.rr.com>...

> So what is so wrong about acknowledging that adults simply don't have the
> power that younger skaters do? If we're not going to gear the tests towards
> adult skaters and their bodies, why bother to have adult tests at all? I
> think it's perfectly reasonable to expect an adult to exhibit strength and
> flow, but unreasonable to expect power. We're not all a bunch of 25 year
> olds. Some people will be taking these tests at 40, 50, 60. There's no
> shame in acknowledging that our bodies change as we get older, and there's
> no shame in designing a test structure to address that. That's why the
> whole adult skating track was created! Skaters who feel they're too "easy"
> are welcome to test standard track.
>
> skaternum

>So what is so wrong about acknowledging that adults simply don't have
the
>power that younger skaters do?

Here the answer: The above question assumes that power comes from
brute force
rather than technique.

>Some people will be taking these tests at 40, 50, 60.

Fitness is still possible at these ages.


Sling Skate


Skatermum, I *do* see your point, and I concur that regular track is
the option for skaters who find adult track too easy, or "not real
testing" (I've heard that one, too). I think most adults (especially,
in my opinion, those like me, who began as older adults) do not have
the power of the whiz kids. However, see Sling's reponse. I agree.
It does not mean adults *cannot* display power. If I can get notes
about "good power" on some moves, trust me, ANYONE CAN. I am not a
great skater!

On the flip side, my coach has seen a 70+ skater who has failed Adult
Gold many times because the judges expect power out of her.
So.......should this skater be passed, even though they did not,
apparently in the judge's eyes, meet the test standard? Or not? I
think these are complex questions, and when it comes to Adult Track,
it appears that nothing is easy. Perhaps, if this change in wording
to "strength and flow" happens, skaters such as this one will pass
their tests.

On the day I tested AB MITF, I watched many regular track MITF tests.
While I have chosen adult track, as I think it is most reasonable for
many reasons ----I have to say I wondered, when I watched some of the
kids testing similar moves AND NOT DOING THEM CORRECTLY, yet not
getting "dinged" the way I did on, say, back perimeter xovers by one
judge. It was the only mark my coach did not agree with. Do the judges
sometimes expect more out of an adult(?).

If there is such a language change with respect to adults, let us hope
that judges actually apply "adult standards" to our tests. And that
that carries over to our competitions. While I have seen adults win
on flow over jumps, almost always the "flow" skater has significant
speed and power for an adult. Not that they skate like kids. Just
that they have good speed and power for an adult, and compared to
others in their competition group.

All in all, although it would definitely be harder for me to *ever*
test AS MITF, I would not be unhappy if "power" stayed in. I think
that Adult Track tests are generally easier than regular track. But
I'm glad adult track is an option. I did not find AB MITF easy. I
chose it because I started skating at 47, and along with having a
regular life, I don't wish to expend the sort of energy I'd have to to
even *try* to pass regular track tests beyond say, preliminary or
pre-juvenile. If that makes me less of a skater to some, I could care
less!

BUT -- one of my goals in skating is to continually improve my power
and speed. I'm a goal-oriented person, and once I see I "don't have
to anymore", I wonder if I will have enough drive just to seek it on
my own, as opposed to knowing I'd have to have it for testing. Just my
opinion, don't mean to be at odds with anyone here.


25 Nov 2004 11:16:27
B.Russell Paradox
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Mrs Redboots wrote:

MR >And, as I said, the waltz 8 is unknown here, but I have tried it -
MR >impossible! Whereas I can do alternating FO3s, although not to passing
MR >standard, and find them a *lot* easier!

To paraphrase a well known expression, the devil is in the "passing
standards". Doing alternating threes (as in LFO3, step, RFO3, etc) is not
terribly hard -BUT- doing them exactly as prescribed and keeping to the
pattern is.
I tested those in the regular USFSA track and I was surprised how
long it took me to get such an "easy" move to passing standard. The waltz
8 was a piece of cake in comparison.

Ana
--
Maintainer of the Recreational Skating FAQ (http://home.pacbell.net/anamga)



25 Nov 2004 19:48:22
Fiona McQuarrie
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

skaternum <skaternum@nospam.nc.rr.com > wrote:

: So what is so wrong about acknowledging that adults simply don't have the
: power that younger skaters do? If we're not going to gear the tests towards
: adult skaters and their bodies, why bother to have adult tests at all? I
: think it's perfectly reasonable to expect an adult to exhibit strength and
: flow, but unreasonable to expect power. We're not all a bunch of 25 year
: olds. Some people will be taking these tests at 40, 50, 60. There's no
: shame in acknowledging that our bodies change as we get older, and there's
: no shame in designing a test structure to address that. That's why the
: whole adult skating track was created! Skaters who feel they're too "easy"
: are welcome to test standard track.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but on the other hand the moves do
have to be done with some "push" and strength, rather than doing the moves
correctly in terms of edges, timing, etc. but wobbling through them. I
don't think (or I would hope, anyway) that if "power" were one of the
judging criterion judges would not be expecting the same level of
"power" from a
60-year-old as they would from a 20-year-old.

Fiona



26 Nov 2004 22:33:52
junior4
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US


> I've uploaded a diagram of the USFSA alternating forward 3-turn pattern to
> my humble web server (please stay running!!). You can compare it to your
> concept of the move to see if there's any difference.
>
> http://www-schneider.viscom.ohiou.edu/skating/images/alt-3s.jpg
>
>
> Bill Schneider

Thanks Bill.
I'm currently polishing my Canadian waltzing 3's for the a preliminary
skills test in January (regular track, the only one there is), and they
are an outside, step to inside, step move, on BIG lobes down the ice.
You do only four 3-turns to complete one length of the ice, with a step
inbetween to change feet basically, no two foot skating anywhere, it's
RFO,RFI, RFO, RFI, then RFI across the end, then LFO, LFI, LFO, LFI,
with LFO across the end, and then a couple of arabesques to the centre
to finis. The turns favour ccw skaters (I'm not) don't you notice, with
the end turns being RFI and LFO. They are kind of fun once you get
the hang of them, and if you place the 3 on the lobe properly and CHECK
IT, the step forward from the outside 3 isn't all that bad.

From what I read here about other countries, it is a basic requirement
to have control of all forward 3 turns to pass a preliminary-type
level. That is perfectly sensible. Everything in skating involves a 3
turn of one sort or another. I looked at the proposed pattern that
USFSA is considering, (inside 3, outside 3 on one lobe, steps on the
other lobe) and I don't know if it would show that the skater has
control of their turns. I'm going to try it out at tomorrow morning's
skate and report back.

Jr.


30 Nov 2004 16:52:07
Marizel
Re: proposed changes to adult skating rules in US

Johanna Ehrmann <johanna@herworkplace.com > wrote in message news:<231120041303420859%johanna@herworkplace.com>...
> http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=27717
>
> They're suggesting replacing the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze with the
> Waltz 8, adding power change of edge pulls to Silver, moving the Slide
> Chassee pattern to Gold and dumping the Novice move from Gold.


I think that instead of just applying patches to the Adult MITF they
should really sit down and rethink the whole sequence. There's not
really any coherence to the design of them.

And it's not a just a case of needing them watered down--it's more
like the Adult Moves are beefed up relative to the corresponding
numbered Standard test, and are even at a considerably higher level
than their own corresponding Freestyle test. For example, in order to
be able to test the Pre-Bronze Freestyle test with say a farily low
level waltz jump, half flip and stork spin, a skater has to get
through the dreaded alternating 3-turns.

Some other examples of the cobbled together nature of the Adult Track:

At the Pre-Bronze level, there are forward and backward crossovers in
both the Moves and Freestyle tests.

The Adult Pre-Bronze through Gold Freestyle tests mostly correspond
fairly evenly with the Pre-Pre through Juvenile Freestyle, with
Pre-Bronze a bit easier than Pre-Pre, and then a gradual movement till
Gold seems very similar to Juvenile. But the first Adult Moves test
contains elements from the first *two* Standard tests, and this
continues throughout.

The Pre-Bronze Freestyle, for instance, is easier than the
Pre-Preliminary Freestyle. However, the Pre-Bronze Moves includes
elements from both Pre-Preliminary and Preliminary Moves, and if the
option to crossover from Standard Moves passes, you'd have to pass
Preliminary Moves in the Standard track to be able to cross over to
Pre-Bronze Freestyle in the Adult track.

Skaters who pass Adult Gold Freestyle are allowed to cross over to the
Standard track at that point into Intermediate Moves. However, Adult
Gold Moves already contains 4 Intermediate and even one Novice move.
And again, the proposed crossover from Standard will be from Standard
Intermediate Moves to Gold Freestyle (though Gold Freestyle
requirements correspond to Juvenile). See the two citations below:

Understanding Grandfathering and How the Adult and Standard Tracks Are
Related
http://www.usfsa.org/Shell.asp?sid=18954
"you can't compare the juvenile moves in the field test with the adult
gold moves in the field test (even though both the juvenile and adult
gold levels precede the intermediate level)."

Fall 2004 Board of Directors Report of Action
http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=27717
"Proposal A: If the skater passed the standard intermediate MIF,
she/he would not be required to take the adult gold MIF before being
allowed to take the adult gold FS or pair test"

This is why I think the whole thing should just be redone in a way
that makes sense. I'm not sure what this proposed new 3-turn pattern
is supposed to prove either--doing the turns on a half lobe? Seems
kind of like the power 3 pattern on the crossover lobe, but with both
inside and outside 3s on the 3-turn lobe. Why not just swap the power
3s from Bronze with the alternating 3s in Pre-Bronze and have done
with it? I think people would have a better chance of mastering the
power 3s for the first test.

If you want to look further at the way the tracks compare, I've posted
a side by side comparison chart of Adult and Standard Moves and
Frestyle at:
http://myweb.wvnet.edu/~marizel/AdultMovesComparison.htm

By the way, I have no personal ax to grind on this, as I passed
Pre-Bronze Free before the Moves were required, then passed Pre-Pre
Moves, and am now struggling with the nasty alternating 3s in hopes of
passing Preliminary Moves. I just think it's cruel to expect them of
first-test skaters. I know that you're supposed to be allowed to put
your foot down in Pre-Bronze, but if you're going to learn them that
way, what's the point?

Just my $.02,
Mary