29 Jan 2005 09:26:14
LK
Challenging goals by coach

Last week I'm told that I am skating in our club show in May despite
my low-level skating skills. Yesterday our adults group coach is
"pushing, not picking" on me to learn sachet, which I can't even
spell,canasta pattern, swing rolls, crossovers, etc., etc., when I
barely can do swizzle pumps with my left foot let alone any of the
others. (Just had my skates sharpened and the left one seems to
scrape rather than skate. I'm to have the sharpening checked.)

And I got partnered with a tall male coach--I'm the only one he hadn't
skated with--who attempted to teach me all this ice dancing step stuff
in once around 1/3 of the ice. --I tried to get out of partner
skating but I wasn't given a choice by my group coach. Every other
woman had a great time with him.

This poor Russian-born and trained male coach, after my utter oblivion
to the step pattern he tried showing me, settled for trying to show me
forward crossovers, constantly stopping and correcting my posture and
my feet. I am dreadfully afraid of losing my balance and knocking
someone over. (I was knocked over myself back in October by a hockey
outfitted 6 year-old skating backward skating and not looking where it
was going.) So most of the partner time was worrying about my balance
and pulling someone down with me. So I finally get some of the XO
right. (I get very self-centered after a while. OK if he's going to
hold me up I really commit to the movement.)

He says I'm doing better and I didn't realize we were stopping. So
committed to the movement I'm making the stroke, put one foot in front
and I realize he's not coming along with me. --I'm thinking of him as
balancing me not as a partnership of dancing. He's still holding my
left hand which prevents my upper body from going forward. So I'm
leaning backward. I'm going down. I'm surprised and laughing.
Somehow he manages to grab my right hand which is reaching forward for
balance and I feel like I'm lowered to the ice. I'm sitting there in
a near yoga position, both arms in a V with him towering over me still
holding both hands.

I can't get up because I'm laughing so hard. The rest of the adult
group come over to us and congratulate us on such a flamboyant ending.
I force myself to stop laughing so I can get up. They are talking
about how I was smiling as I went down.

I didn't even say "Thank you" to him. I wish all falls were easy
landings like that. I laughing and so pleased that I remained
smiling and didn't knock him over. Very self-centered.

The adult group coach comes over and checking out I'm all right, she
asked "But you had fun didn't you." And I'm "E-e-e-h." She says
"Wasn't that fun? The skating with someone?" I said, " It was....all
right. I guess. But not really." It wasn't fun. It was work. It
reinforced that I"ve far to go before I can do crossovers. All these
weight shifts and positions of feet and arms.

I don't think he enjoyed it either. He's skated with every woman in
our group, who are all much better skaters. Even with the brand new
adult skater, I am certain I'm the only one of this group who has
fallen with him.

I've never been interested in pairs skating and I don't really enjoy
watching it that much. The idea of ice dancing with someone...maybe as
a simple social thing on occasions but I don't know. Plus the fact I
haven't danced, period, with a decent partner since I was 19.

I do my own stunts and I do them alone no one else gets hurt.

If I'm converted I'll let you all know.

LK



29 Jan 2005 15:01:57
Mrs Redboots
Re: Challenging goals by coach

LK wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 29 Jan 2005:

>Last week I'm told that I am skating in our club show in May despite
>my low-level skating skills. Yesterday our adults group coach is
>"pushing, not picking" on me to learn sachet, which I can't even
>spell,

ChassÚs, is the word I think you're looking for.

>canasta pattern, swing rolls, crossovers, etc., etc., when I
>barely can do swizzle pumps with my left foot let alone any of the
>others. (Just had my skates sharpened and the left one seems to
>scrape rather than skate. I'm to have the sharpening checked.)
>
I bet you aren't as bad as you think you are, you know.

I remember the first time I danced with a partner. I'd done loads of
patterns of the dance - a prelim Foxtrot (which you don't have in the
USA - it's just a crossover into a swing roll into a crossover the other
way into a swing roll, for UK free skaters it's the same as the first
Prelim field move, only you do it all round the rink and don't do
crossovers round the end), and then when it came to doing it with a
partner, I fell all over my own two feet, couldn't get the timing right
to save my life, and ended up apologising profusely to all and
sundry.... Mind you, I loathe that dance - it's one that's easy enough
to do badly, and, like all of them, extremely hard to do well.

So I know exactly what you must have felt like. Honestly, I bet the
others got off the ice feeling the same!

Don't give up on dance, even if you dance solo - it's really quite a
different discipline to free skating, but totally complementary.
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos




29 Jan 2005 15:52:40
LK
Re: Challenging goals by coach

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 15:01:57 +0000, Mrs Redboots
<Annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote:

>LK wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 29 Jan 2005:
>
>>Last week I'm told that I am skating in our club show in May despite
>>my low-level skating skills. Yesterday our adults group coach is
>>"pushing, not picking" on me to learn sachet, which I can't even
>>spell,
>
>ChassÚs, is the word I think you're looking for.
>
>>canasta pattern, swing rolls, crossovers, etc., etc., when I
>>barely can do swizzle pumps with my left foot let alone any of the
>>others. (Just had my skates sharpened and the left one seems to
>>scrape rather than skate. I'm to have the sharpening checked.)
>>
>I bet you aren't as bad as you think you are, you know.

I first set foot upon ice in September. December the skating director
didn't want me walking on the ice in sneakers for set changes because
my balance wasn't good enough. The adults' coach has always seen me
differently than the skating director. I don't mind the "pushing" but
I confused about what I'm supposed to be doing. And I kind of need to
know what to do with the whole body and just feet. I push myself to
try complete the movements with arms and grace.

I need, I want a good solid center. This is my first week of
practicing balancing movement off ice. I bought additional ice time
so I'm working up to doing about 4-1/2 hours a week including 2
lessons from the 2 hours including lessons I've been doing.

Exercising at home with stretches and belly dance. Plus I just
started a class to learn American Sign Language. I've a lot of body
and mental processing going on.

>I remember the first time I danced with a partner. I'd done loads of
>patterns of the dance - a prelim Foxtrot (which you don't have in the
>USA - it's just a crossover into a swing roll into a crossover the other
>way into a swing roll, for UK free skaters it's the same as the first
>Prelim field move, only you do it all round the rink and don't do
>crossovers round the end), and then when it came to doing it with a
>partner, I fell all over my own two feet, couldn't get the timing right
>to save my life, and ended up apologising profusely to all and
>sundry.... Mind you, I loathe that dance - it's one that's easy enough
>to do badly, and, like all of them, extremely hard to do well.
>
>So I know exactly what you must have felt like. Honestly, I bet the
>others got off the ice feeling the same!

No. They didn't. They all loved it and said it was great and how easy
it was. And he was all smiling with them and how much he enjoyed it.
(They'd been practicing these for steps solo for weeks. Some of the
steps they were practicing back in September. The basic 3 adults do
have this tendency to stand and socialize during the practice time and
even during the lesson practice time. I try to get mine in before I
get on the ice and keep it to just a minute or 2 on the ice then get
to work. ...I think that is why the adults' coach believes I can
catch up. I think I can at least lessen the gap by mid-April)


>Don't give up on dance, even if you dance solo - it's really quite a
>different discipline to free skating, but totally complementary.

How is it a different discipline in your view?

LK



30 Jan 2005 05:11:06
Kay
Re: Challenging goals by coach


"LK" <fountainmdomeb5@yahoo.com > wrote
> And I got partnered with a tall male coach--I'm the only one he hadn't
> skated with--who attempted to teach me all this ice dancing step stuff
> in once around 1/3 of the ice. --I tried to get out of partner
> skating but I wasn't given a choice by my group coach.

Is your goal to dance w/ a partner? If so, it is a good idea to get started
w/ it early. He probably was able to help you do xovers by giving you the
support you need to do the moves correctly while having someone to hang on
to. Kind of like a human jump harness. If you are not interested in partner
skating or doing a show, tell your instructor.

Kay
www.skatejournal.com





30 Jan 2005 15:44:17
Mrs Redboots
Re: Challenging goals by coach

LK wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 29 Jan 2005:

I had said:

>>Don't give up on dance, even if you dance solo - it's really quite a
>>different discipline to free skating, but totally complementary.
>
>How is it a different discipline in your view?
>
Different focus. In free skating, it's all about the elements - the
jumps, spins and footwork - and the training is designed to work on
those. Dance is more about edges, flow, posture, extension....

It seems to me that free skaters have a wider variety of turns, and more
speed across the ice (at the lower levels, this is), and dancers have
much better edges and flow.

Also, free skaters can find a style and rhythm that suits them and stick
with it throughout their careers - dancers, from the word go, have to be
able to dance in very different styles - foxtrot, blues, waltz, tango,
samba, etc.....
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos




30 Jan 2005 12:04:25
LK
Re: Challenging goals by coach

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 05:11:06 -0500, "Kay"
<kayskate.nospam@optonline.net > wrote:

>
>"LK" <fountainmdomeb5@yahoo.com> wrote
>> And I got partnered with a tall male coach--I'm the only one he hadn't
>> skated with--who attempted to teach me all this ice dancing step stuff
>> in once around 1/3 of the ice. --I tried to get out of partner
>> skating but I wasn't given a choice by my group coach.
>
>Is your goal to dance w/ a partner? If so, it is a good idea to get started
>w/ it early. He probably was able to help you do xovers by giving you the
>support you need to do the moves correctly while having someone to hang on
>to. Kind of like a human jump harness. If you are not interested in partner
>skating or doing a show, tell your instructor.
>
>Kay
>www.skatejournal.com
>
>

I'm happy to do the show. I was amazed and pleased. I just wasn't
expecting to perform so soon.

Group instructor is offering us as possible potential partners, I
guess.

(Deep breath.) I want to create my own choreography. I want true
freedom in free style to express mood and the music and changeable to
feeling, circumstance, and ability. I can't do that with a partner
unless it is a social dance, even then that is constricted. I'd like
to perform with a troupe and solo. I'm not totally against having
someone deciding moves for me for a troupe performance. I'd like to
choreograph for others (for shows not competition). Who knows what I
can achieve.

...Yesterday morning I was compelled to move and start ice
choreography to John Denver's "Rocky Mountain High" that I could
almost skate. Living room dance to ice.

I do find myself slightly rebelling behind closed lips at group
lessons because I want to practice more on something that I know I
need to work on. I've been shown so many steps and left on my own a
lot because I was the newbie. Plus work schedules have given us 4
different coaches in the past 2 group sessions. That's big reason I
chose a young coach I can talk to so I can make use of my style of
learning and practice. I know me and I know my body.

I think I have some leftover issues that I also don't really trust a
man to be there. The circumstances of Friday's fall kind of
reinforces that.

I know it is not fair but I have felt unsettled since that happened.

Practicing solo and working on my belly dancing--which is really
starting to coming along-- is all helping me get through the unsettled
feeling.

I really feel ambivalent whole the whole thing. How much is old
issues personal baggage, how much is my skating skills, and how much
is "artistic" temperament. I definitely feel _different_ because the
3 other women, more experienced skaters, really enjoyed it. I haven't
talked to the absolute beginner and I need to because I don't want her
to feel left out of the adult group. She was part of my spectator
"fan club" who is now taking lessons herself. That male coach been
her "harness" for 4 weeks now. I had a female coach who held my hand
for my first 15 minutes and said I was doing well enough.


These feelings are incredibly distracting. Ble-uck!

LK



30 Jan 2005 20:38:38
The Walsh Family
Re: Challenging goals by coach

I think its great that you stick up for your own feelings without being
overly pressured by the group. Comfort comes with experience and confidence
in your own ability. I still get the yips when I'm too close to the boards
or my coach, but not other skaters anymore (my coach likes to grab odd bits
of clothing when I'm not looking trying to align this stack of out of kilter
body parts).
Lyle


>
> I do my own stunts and I do them alone no one else gets hurt.
>
> If I'm converted I'll let you all know.
>
> LK





03 Feb 2005 10:36:52
LK
Ice dancing compared to free skating (Was: Re: Challenging goals by coach

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:44:17 +0000, Mrs Redboots
<Annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk > wrote:

>LK wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Sat, 29 Jan 2005:
>
>I had said:
>
>>>Don't give up on dance, even if you dance solo - it's really quite a
>>>different discipline to free skating, but totally complementary.
>>
>>How is it a different discipline in your view?
>>
>Different focus. In free skating, it's all about the elements - the
>jumps, spins and footwork - and the training is designed to work on
>those. Dance is more about edges, flow, posture, extension....

Any videos or ice dancers to look for that are good examples of this?


Not sure I understand the difference between footwork and edges.

I got daughter (8) started with my adult group coach to work on basic
stroking and school figures because when she gets bored she likes to
trace the hockey lines and symbols in the ice. --I think she does it
for fun and to compensate for when it gets too noisy for her.

>
>It seems to me that free skaters have a wider variety of turns, and more
>speed across the ice (at the lower levels, this is), and dancers have
>much better edges and flow.
>
>Also, free skaters can find a style and rhythm that suits them and stick
>with it throughout their careers - dancers, from the word go, have to be
>able to dance in very different styles - foxtrot, blues, waltz, tango,
>samba, etc.....

When I first read this part my reaction was, "You're kidding!" Then I
mused on it for a couple days. Last night I put on "Scott Hamilton
and Friends with Michael Feinstein" on a suspicion.

-- I don't like the program. The editing is not great. You are
missing the moves of the skaters, too often. So much of the skating
is done in ignorance of the music being played & sung. I found myself
knowing there was going to be a jump or a spin, _not_ because of the
movements leading to it, not because it would be appropriate to this
music of Gershwin or Berlin, but because of the time the skater on the
ice.

A strong impression that several of the choreographies could have been
juggled around and it would not have mattered.

Put aside the fact that I think one could tap-dance to "Afternoon of a
Faun" for creative experiment.

I don't want to get into that kind of rut. (Of course, I'm talking as
if I have a lifetime of health and strength ahead of me.) Jeeze, I
can't even keep up, keep time in my belly dance class. I start
improvising. Fortunately, my dance teacher has that as a goal of the
class.

A semi-side note there could be a sport of "Jump skating" where jumps
pre-dominate, moves only connect the jumps, and music is unnecessary.
like in elevators (lifts). ..Or am I behind the times.

LK

My dance teacher told us of a skit during a hafla (dance gathering)
where they dressed old coats and hair nets and glasses with canes and
hobbled around until they found a magic lamp. The genie granted
their wish to dance. Discarding their canes and coats they became
supple dancers.





03 Feb 2005 16:01:09
Mrs Redboots
Re: Ice dancing compared to free skating (Was: Re: Challenging goals by coach

LK wrote to rec.sport.skating.ice.recreational on Thu, 3 Feb 2005:

>Any videos or ice dancers to look for that are good examples of this?
>
I don't know how much skating you get on television where you are, but
if they televised your National Championships, you will have the
difference between the ice dancers and the free skaters. I believe the
European Championships have yet to be televised in the USA.

Failing that, get hold of the Dubova video someone was recommending in
another thread.

>
>Not sure I understand the difference between footwork and edges.
>
Footwork is an all-embracing term including edges, turns, and other
moves such as swing rolls & cross rolls & so on. All free skating and
free/original dance programmes have to include a "step sequence" or
"footwork sequence" which is just that - steps rather than jumps, spins
or anything else.

>I got daughter (8) started with my adult group coach to work on basic
>stroking and school figures because when she gets bored she likes to
>trace the hockey lines and symbols in the ice. --I think she does it
>for fun and to compensate for when it gets too noisy for her.
>
I'm sure she will love it.

[Snip]
>A strong impression that several of the choreographies could have been
>juggled around and it would not have mattered.
>
The very best free skaters are those who skate *to* their music, not in
spite of it! If you could put some other music on and the programme
would lose nothing, you are not watching a great skater! My husband's
coach has a skater who is doing a routine to something with a very
pronounced rhythm, but at the moment she is only in time with the music
about half the time, and it looks very odd - she will get there, it's
still a work in progress, but I think she's chosen a very difficult
piece for herself.

Whereas for dancers, the rhythm is paramount - the compulsory dances are
usually danced to one of a selection of 6 tunes, and one of the major
faults is not being on the beat. For original dance, your routine *has*
to be in a certain rhythm or combination of rhythms (this year was
Foxtrot/Quickstep and one other, and you could choose 2 out of 3; next
year it will be Latin). So you only have a free choice of the type of
music you use in the free dance - whereas the free skaters get a choice
of music all the way through, both short and long programmes.

>Put aside the fact that I think one could tap-dance to "Afternoon of a
>Faun" for creative experiment.
>
:-) Might be fun, at that..

>I don't want to get into that kind of rut. (Of course, I'm talking as
>if I have a lifetime of health and strength ahead of me.) Jeeze, I
>can't even keep up, keep time in my belly dance class. I start
>improvising. Fortunately, my dance teacher has that as a goal of the
>class.
>
You'll be surprised how much fitter you get, just with the regular
exercise.

>A semi-side note there could be a sport of "Jump skating" where jumps
>pre-dominate, moves only connect the jumps, and music is unnecessary.
>like in elevators (lifts). ..Or am I behind the times.
>
Some skaters seem to skate as though there already was this!
--
"Mrs Redboots" mailto:annabel@amsmyth.demon.co.uk
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos