31 Oct 2005 11:31:57
Sean Byrne
Wasps v Toulouse


Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...

Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?

Later,
Sean


31 Oct 2005 03:48:10
simon s-b
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


Sean Byrne wrote:
> Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
> a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
> Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
> dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>
> Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
> progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>
> Later,
> Sean

If Ellisalde had hit their goals Wasps were well gone. Personally
though - on this decision I'd have gone for another scrum. They looked
to have Toulouse there, who kept playing silly buggers as an out, and I
think it could have been a couple more then a penalty try. It was
already something like the 6th minute of injury time and I reckon Hart
flapped due to the time. You'll never beat them in France mate - 4 from
4 is too big an ask I reckon.



31 Oct 2005 03:50:39
Ben L
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


Sean Byrne wrote:
> Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
> a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
> Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
> dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...

It wasn't a cracker, and Wasps looked very short of invention behind
the scrum. Dawson had a shocker, and passed poorly to King all day.

Lots of aimless kicking from both sides.

The common view is that Wasps were lucky - because Elissalde missed a
few kicks, but Toulouse had their rub of the green too. Two missed drop
goals from Wasps, a missed kick from V-G and a distinctly iffy first
try from Toulouse, courtesy of a quick tap in front of the mark and
Brennan holding back Lewsey. Well taken, though, in fairness.

>
> Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
> progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?

They had looked pretty ordinary all game. Odds are that they wouldn't
have scored. The Toulouse defence was pretty good.

Toulouse collapsed a scrum on the five metre line, and Wasps could have
gone for a pushover, but by this point Dallaglio was off for Rees and
Toulouse could have pulled a few tricks.

>
> Later,
> Sean



31 Oct 2005 12:28:56
Sean Byrne
Re: Wasps v Toulouse

simon s-b wrote:
> Sean Byrne wrote:
>
>>Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
>>a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
>>Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
>>dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>>
>>Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
>>progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>>
>>Later,
>>Sean
>
>
> If Ellisalde had hit their goals Wasps were well gone. Personally
> though - on this decision I'd have gone for another scrum. They looked
> to have Toulouse there, who kept playing silly buggers as an out, and I
> think it could have been a couple more then a penalty try. It was
> already something like the 6th minute of injury time and I reckon Hart
> flapped due to the time.

Cheers.

> You'll never beat them in France mate - 4 from
> 4 is too big an ask I reckon.

Yeah I think so too... that was probably as good a chance as we were
going to get to grab points off them, my instinct would have been to
gamble for the win.

Later,
Sean
>


31 Oct 2005 08:03:06
William A. T. Clark
Re: Wasps v Toulouse

In article <dk4v16$ogj$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk >,
Sean Byrne <byrne_sean_spamtrap@hotmail.com > wrote:

> Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
> a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
> Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
> dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>
> Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
> progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>
> Later,
> Sean

Yes, it was dire. A total lack of invention or incision in midfield,
especially from Wasps. I think that S12 backs would have made far more
out of the possession that either of these two, and therein lies the
difference that I think will be reflected in the Autumn Tour
internationals.

William Clark


31 Oct 2005 13:07:22
Sean Byrne
Re: Wasps v Toulouse

Ben L wrote:
> Sean Byrne wrote:
>
>>Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
>>a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
>>Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
>>dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>
>
> It wasn't a cracker, and Wasps looked very short of invention behind
> the scrum. Dawson had a shocker, and passed poorly to King all day.
>
> Lots of aimless kicking from both sides.

Sounds similar to the snore-fest that was the Leicester game on Saturday
then.


>
> The common view is that Wasps were lucky - because Elissalde missed a
> few kicks, but Toulouse had their rub of the green too. Two missed drop
> goals from Wasps, a missed kick from V-G and a distinctly iffy first
> try from Toulouse, courtesy of a quick tap in front of the mark and
> Brennan holding back Lewsey. Well taken, though, in fairness.
>
>
>>Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
>>progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>
>
> They had looked pretty ordinary all game. Odds are that they wouldn't
> have scored. The Toulouse defence was pretty good.
>
> Toulouse collapsed a scrum on the five metre line, and Wasps could have
> gone for a pushover, but by this point Dallaglio was off for Rees and
> Toulouse could have pulled a few tricks.
>

Thanks Ben.

Later,
Sean


31 Oct 2005 14:15:32
didgerman
Re: Wasps v Toulouse

Sean Byrne wrote:
> simon s-b wrote:
>> Sean Byrne wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
>>> a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
>>> Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
>>> dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>>>
>>> Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
>>> progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible
>>> decision?
>>>
>>> Later,
>>> Sean
>>
>>
>> If Ellisalde had hit their goals Wasps were well gone. Personally
>> though - on this decision I'd have gone for another scrum. They looked
>> to have Toulouse there, who kept playing silly buggers as an out, and I
>> think it could have been a couple more then a penalty try. It was
>> already something like the 6th minute of injury time and I reckon Hart
>> flapped due to the time.
>
> Cheers.
>
>> You'll never beat them in France mate - 4 from
>> 4 is too big an ask I reckon.
>
> Yeah I think so too... that was probably as good a chance as we were
> going to get to grab points off them, my instinct would have been to
> gamble for the win.
>
> Later,
> Sean
>>

I think Dally especially has learnt the hard way that you have to come
away with something to stay in the competition. Which is pretty much
what he said after the game.


31 Oct 2005 16:51:57
Ali Day
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


"simon s-b" <simon.stovin-bradford@cern.ch > wrote in message
news:1130759290.438122.225060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Sean Byrne wrote:
>> Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
>> a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
>> Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
>> dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>>
>> Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
>> progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>>
>> Later,
>> Sean
>
> If Ellisalde had hit their goals Wasps were well gone. Personally
> though - on this decision I'd have gone for another scrum.

I had to admit I swore loudly at the TV, when they opted for the penalty
kick. Where's the will to win in that, a draw in that group does them F-all
good. The fact that they'd pushed the scrum back almost five metres to have
been awarded a penalty, the commentator then said that if the scrum broke up
again in that way it would have been all over for the game. To me if a scrum
breaks up more than a couple of times on the line, serious case for a
penalty try, which is what I would have gone for. A bit hazy here, but can
the ref finish the match on a penalty, with the aggrieved team not getting
the option?

Dawson's step and telegraphing his pass got him scragged on at least four
occasions from the back of the breakdown / scrum, any speed he had is gone
methinks.




31 Oct 2005 17:01:02
Sean Byrne
Re: Wasps v Toulouse

Ali Day wrote:
> "simon s-b" <simon.stovin-bradford@cern.ch> wrote in message
> news:1130759290.438122.225060@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Sean Byrne wrote:
>>
>>>Didn't get to see the game yesterday as traded Sunday at the movies for
>>>a rugby marathon on Saturday, but did anyone in here see the above?
>>>Seems to have been little comment on the decision to go for goal in the
>>>dying stages to secure the draw rather than go for the win...
>>>
>>>Huge call given that it leaves Wasps needing to win four from four to
>>>progress. Were they likely to score a try or was it a sensible decision?
>>>
>>>Later,
>>>Sean
>>
>>If Ellisalde had hit their goals Wasps were well gone. Personally
>>though - on this decision I'd have gone for another scrum.
>
>
> I had to admit I swore loudly at the TV, when they opted for the penalty
> kick. Where's the will to win in that, a draw in that group does them F-all
> good. The fact that they'd pushed the scrum back almost five metres to have
> been awarded a penalty, the commentator then said that if the scrum broke up
> again in that way it would have been all over for the game. To me if a scrum
> breaks up more than a couple of times on the line, serious case for a
> penalty try, which is what I would have gone for. A bit hazy here, but can
> the ref finish the match on a penalty, with the aggrieved team not getting
> the option?

No... 5.7 (e)

If time expires and the ball is not dead, or an awarded scrum or
line-out has not been completed the referee allows play to continue
until the next time that the ball becomes dead. If time expires and a
mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play
to continue.

>
> Dawson's step and telegraphing his pass got him scragged on at least four
> occasions from the back of the breakdown / scrum, any speed he had is gone
> methinks.
>

Ellis had a bit of a shocker on Saturday too. His form seems to have
taken a couple of large steps backwards from last season.

Later,
Sean


31 Oct 2005 10:06:13
Ben L
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


simon s-b wrote:
<snip >
>It was
> already something like the 6th minute of injury time and I reckon Hart
> flapped due to the time. You'll never beat them in France mate - 4 from
> 4 is too big an ask I reckon.

Apparently word came from the bench to go for the sticks.



01 Nov 2005 00:20:52
Ben L
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


Sean Byrne wrote:
<snip >

> Sounds similar to the snore-fest that was the Leicester game on Saturday
> then.

Not quite - the game was more interesting than that. Toulouse had one
well taken try, albeit with a bit of funny business, and another
corker.

Wasps also got down to the Toulouse line and had O'Connor collared just
before the line.

With two teams with less organised defences, this match would have been
more open.

More of a forwards game given that defence on both sides was pretty
good. In particular, Wasps got the nudge on in the scrums (no, really),
and had two superb rolling mauls.

In the final few minutes of the match, Toulouse were camped on the
Wasps try line and Sackey managed to break away, only just losing out
in a footrace to Nyanga when Sackey had chipped ahead. Then came two
five metre scrums and the does he/doesn't he kick decision. A bit of
high drama.

Wasps need to sort out their distribution: because of Dawson's poor
form, King found no space and mostly Abbott and Lewsey got caught in
possession. Oh to have Richards back, perhaps.



01 Nov 2005 01:05:47
Brent Hadley
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


Ben L wrote:

> Wasps need to sort out their distribution: because of Dawson's poor
> form, King found no space and mostly Abbott and Lewsey got caught in
> possession. Oh to have Richards back, perhaps.

Why did they let him leave? Hardly a move looking to the future.

Cheers

Brent



01 Nov 2005 02:39:47
Ben L
Re: Wasps v Toulouse


Brent Hadley wrote:
> Ben L wrote:
>
> > Wasps need to sort out their distribution: because of Dawson's poor
> > form, King found no space and mostly Abbott and Lewsey got caught in
> > possession. Oh to have Richards back, perhaps.
>
> Why did they let him leave? Hardly a move looking to the future.

I'm guessing he will have wanted to be the first choice scrum half and
not take a Healey-esque role as a utility back and support to the main
scrum half. Perhaps they refused to offer that to him.

Why? Mystifying. Personal/training issues we can't see in his match
performances? Geech's loyalty to Dawson as a big match player?

They let Biljon go, too, which wasn't a great move either.