26 Jul 2005 19:48:10
New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Let's see if I can get flamed for spamming so horribly. It's a bit hard
to get the word out to the rowing community, I apologize for bothering
anyone. I would like to show off a newly launched site for GPS based
coxswain amplifiers - www.in2rowing.com. I've been building this little
contraption for awhile! We got a test unit of the In2 in a boat a few
weeks ago and our team coxswains love it - well, after they figured out
how to use it! It's basically a CoxBox melded with a SpeedCoach
injected with some additional features. No impeller! Nothing to break
off in transit. Very loud system, long charge life, etc.

I welcome any criticism or thoughts!
Regards,
-Nathan



26 Jul 2005 23:46:36
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

I think this it is exelent that you have used the same plugs as NK. It
makes so much senes for clubs to be able to interchange speaker
systems. I tried to get http://www.wardcox.com/to do this, but they
felt that they *had* to be different.



27 Jul 2005 11:11:32
Neil Wallace
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
> Let's see if I can get flamed for spamming so horribly. It's a bit
> hard to get the word out to the rowing community, I apologize for
> bothering anyone. I would like to show off a newly launched site for
> GPS based coxswain amplifiers - www.in2rowing.com. I've been building
> this little contraption for awhile! We got a test unit of the In2 in
> a boat a few weeks ago and our team coxswains love it - well, after
> they figured out how to use it! It's basically a CoxBox melded with a
> SpeedCoach injected with some additional features. No impeller!
> Nothing to break off in transit. Very loud system, long charge life,
> etc.
>
> I welcome any criticism or thoughts!
> Regards,
> -Nathan

Looks interesting.
I can't help but wonder if you are a little premature in hitting the market
with it yet though.... the first field test was 2 weeks ago?

So tell us more, and how about jazzing up the website a little.......
The pdf manual is good, but how many people will download it?
How about including a few of those screenshot photos on your main page, and
adding a couple of reviews from the coxswains you mention?

BTW - some people like the impellor system because it gives boat speed
relative to water.... very useful for training purposes, but I'm with you on
the GPS superiority.





27 Jul 2005 11:27:35
Nick Bailey
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD Pro
before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have the
choice of either GPS or Impeller.

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------


seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
> Let's see if I can get flamed for spamming so horribly. It's a bit hard
> to get the word out to the rowing community, I apologize for bothering
> anyone. I would like to show off a newly launched site for GPS based
> coxswain amplifiers - www.in2rowing.com. I've been building this little
> contraption for awhile! We got a test unit of the In2 in a boat a few
> weeks ago and our team coxswains love it - well, after they figured out
> how to use it! It's basically a CoxBox melded with a SpeedCoach
> injected with some additional features. No impeller! Nothing to break
> off in transit. Very loud system, long charge life, etc.
>
> I welcome any criticism or thoughts!
> Regards,
> -Nathan
>


27 Jul 2005 11:29:33
Nick Bailey
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD Pro
before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have the
choice of either GPS or Impeller as well as Ratio & Rate. The same speed
unit will also work with the RD Solo.

This information has not yet been released on the website but will be
available once we've got some decent pictures and screenshots.

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------


seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
> Let's see if I can get flamed for spamming so horribly. It's a bit hard
> to get the word out to the rowing community, I apologize for bothering
> anyone. I would like to show off a newly launched site for GPS based
> coxswain amplifiers - www.in2rowing.com. I've been building this little
> contraption for awhile! We got a test unit of the In2 in a boat a few
> weeks ago and our team coxswains love it - well, after they figured out
> how to use it! It's basically a CoxBox melded with a SpeedCoach
> injected with some additional features. No impeller! Nothing to break
> off in transit. Very loud system, long charge life, etc.
>
> I welcome any criticism or thoughts!
> Regards,
> -Nathan
>


27 Jul 2005 13:34:48
Neil Wallace
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Nick Bailey wrote:
> Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD
> Pro before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have
> the choice of either GPS or Impeller as well as Ratio & Rate. The
> same speed unit will also work with the RD Solo.

Hi Nick,

How about having both impellor and GPS?

That way coxy will be able to plot proof that he/she was "in the stream" at
all times in a head race.

or not.

oooooh the responsibility.




27 Jul 2005 13:36:58
mpruscoe
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Neil Wallace wrote:
> Nick Bailey wrote:
>
>>Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD
>>Pro before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have
>>the choice of either GPS or Impeller as well as Ratio & Rate. The
>>same speed unit will also work with the RD Solo.
>
>
> Hi Nick,
>
> How about having both impellor and GPS?
>
> That way coxy will be able to plot proof that he/she was "in the stream" at
> all times in a head race.
>
> or not.
>
> oooooh the responsibility.
>

It would certainly give the cox the opportunity to weave backwards and
forwards across the river looking for the stream :)


27 Jul 2005 13:37:48
mpruscoe
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

mpruscoe wrote:
> Neil Wallace wrote:
>
>> Nick Bailey wrote:
>>
>>> Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD
>>> Pro before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have
>>> the choice of either GPS or Impeller as well as Ratio & Rate. The
>>> same speed unit will also work with the RD Solo.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>
>> How about having both impellor and GPS?
>>
>> That way coxy will be able to plot proof that he/she was "in the
>> stream" at all times in a head race.
>>
>> or not.
>>
>> oooooh the responsibility.
>
>
> It would certainly give the cox the opportunity to weave backwards and
> forwards across the river looking for the stream :)

...or from side to side :)


27 Jul 2005 13:52:51
Nick Bailey
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

At last, an excuse to weave from side to side!

Impeller and GPS would be possible for a data logging system but I
really doubt that people would use it. It also assumes that you've got
your impeller set up properly, and I suspect 99% of rowers with
impellers don't calibrate them on a daily basis ;)

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------



mpruscoe wrote:
> mpruscoe wrote:
>
>> Neil Wallace wrote:
>>
>>> Nick Bailey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD
>>>> Pro before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have
>>>> the choice of either GPS or Impeller as well as Ratio & Rate. The
>>>> same speed unit will also work with the RD Solo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> How about having both impellor and GPS?
>>>
>>> That way coxy will be able to plot proof that he/she was "in the
>>> stream" at all times in a head race.
>>>
>>> or not.
>>>
>>> oooooh the responsibility.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would certainly give the cox the opportunity to weave backwards and
>> forwards across the river looking for the stream :)
>
>
> ...or from side to side :)


27 Jul 2005 13:52:38
Jon Anderson
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Nick Bailey wrote:
> At last, an excuse to weave from side to side!
>
> Impeller and GPS would be possible for a data logging system but I
> really doubt that people would use it. It also assumes that you've got
> your impeller set up properly, and I suspect 99% of rowers with
> impellers don't calibrate them on a daily basis ;)

How often would the coxbox log the data from the impeller?

Jon
--
Durge: jon@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: accounts@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/

[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]


27 Jul 2005 06:58:45
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains



Jon Anderson wrote:
> Nick Bailey wrote:
> > At last, an excuse to weave from side to side!
> >
> > Impeller and GPS would be possible for a data logging system but I
> > really doubt that people would use it. It also assumes that you've got
> > your impeller set up properly, and I suspect 99% of rowers with
> > impellers don't calibrate them on a daily basis ;)
>
> How often would the coxbox log the data from the impeller?
>
> Jon
> --
> Durge: jon@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
> OnStream: accounts@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/
>
> [ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]



27 Jul 2005 15:23:33
Nick Bailey
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Just to clarify - the RD Pro and RD Solo can currently store a total
5000 records composed of Rate, Ratio, Timer, Stroke Count & Speed. Both
can be told to store a record either every stroke or every 10 seconds.

The RD Pro and RD Solo display speed from the impeller at the end of
every stroke or GPS Speed module over a user programmable period of
time. The Impeller Speed module features a user programmable speed
compensation factor.

Note that the GPS Speed module will be available around October and the
Impeller Speed module at some time after this.

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------



Jon Anderson wrote:
> Nick Bailey wrote:
>
>> At last, an excuse to weave from side to side!
>>
>> Impeller and GPS would be possible for a data logging system but I
>> really doubt that people would use it. It also assumes that you've got
>> your impeller set up properly, and I suspect 99% of rowers with
>> impellers don't calibrate them on a daily basis ;)
>
>
> How often would the coxbox log the data from the impeller?
>
> Jon


27 Jul 2005 09:24:42
rowerz
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Eh, That GPS feature will not give accurate results. I tried using GPS
to monitor bicycle speed and the measured distances and instantaneous
speeds were way off the mark. Even +-5 seconds over an averaged out
six/seven minute race is not good enough for high performance rowing.
Is it speed over ground or speed through water that is measured?
What actual performance paramaters did anyone manage to get using this
system?


Nick Bailey wrote:
> Just for reference, a GPS Speed module will be available for the RD Pro
> before October 2005. An impeller module will follow so users have the
> choice of either GPS or Impeller.
>
> Nick
>
>
> -------------------------
> http://www.rowdata.co.uk
> Advanced Rowing Equipment
> 07946 526135
> -------------------------
>
>
> seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
> > Let's see if I can get flamed for spamming so horribly. It's a bit hard
> > to get the word out to the rowing community, I apologize for bothering
> > anyone. I would like to show off a newly launched site for GPS based
> > coxswain amplifiers - www.in2rowing.com. I've been building this little
> > contraption for awhile! We got a test unit of the In2 in a boat a few
> > weeks ago and our team coxswains love it - well, after they figured out
> > how to use it! It's basically a CoxBox melded with a SpeedCoach
> > injected with some additional features. No impeller! Nothing to break
> > off in transit. Very loud system, long charge life, etc.
> >
> > I welcome any criticism or thoughts!
> > Regards,
> > -Nathan
> >



27 Jul 2005 18:36:08
simonk
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

"mpruscoe" <mpruscoe@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:dc7v6q$ed9$2@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> mpruscoe wrote:
>> Neil Wallace wrote:

>>> Hi Nick,
>>>
>>> How about having both impellor and GPS?
>>>
>>> That way coxy will be able to plot proof that he/she was "in the stream"
>>> at all times in a head race.
>>>
>>> or not.
>>>
>>> oooooh the responsibility.
>>
>>
>> It would certainly give the cox the opportunity to weave backwards and
>> forwards across the river looking for the stream :)
>
> ...or from side to side :)

We'd then just be a couple of servomotors away from replacing the cox with a
small shell script ...

--
simonk




27 Jul 2005 23:39:04
Jon Anderson
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

simonk wrote:
> We'd then just be a couple of servomotors away from replacing the cox with a
> small shell script ...

$ for i in swerve crash bang; do echo $i; done
swerve
crash
bang

You'd never notice the difference.

Jon
--
Durge: jon@durge.org http://users.durge.org/~jon/
OnStream: accounts@rowing.org.uk http://www.rowing.org.uk/

[ All views expressed are personal unless otherwise stated ]


27 Jul 2005 19:13:53
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

As much as I hate to admit it, NK is king in our part of the world
(North America). It would be foolish to expect teams to drop another
$150 rewiring per boat. I personal hate these connectors. Way outdated,
there are much better alternatives. But I think even NK is locked into
them now!

garyvdm@gmail.com wrote:
> I think this it is exelent that you have used the same plugs as NK. It
> makes so much senes for clubs to be able to interchange speaker
> systems. I tried to get http://www.wardcox.com/to do this, but they
> felt that they *had* to be different.



27 Jul 2005 19:23:30
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Premature - but of course ;) There's only one way to start, and that's
to just do it. I know what goes into these units and how well they
work. Only in time will the new wear off and people will get comfy with
the idea.

I'm not a web guru, but I'll try to get more pictures on the site!
Thanks for the feedback!

Our team dropped the $ for a speed coach only to loose the impeller
after three practices. I was initally impressed by the
engineering/magneto connection. But was then putoff when we couldn't
get the thing to function. GPS = nothing to break.

(Impeller vs GPS argument) Eventually I think it boils down to how fast
can I get from point a to point b? Impeller will give you numbers, I
just think GPS is more accurate.



27 Jul 2005 19:35:26
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Great questions! Speed over the earth's surface is measured - in 3D
(rowing should be very nearly flat). We are NOT timing boats. We are
giving instantaneous speed to the coxswain. We lost medal contention in
the Head of the Charles by 6 seconds (or ~0.6%) - I know all about
closeness and timing of races.

You are correct. The overall error can be disappointing but this is a
common math problem. If you integrate over time, even very minute error
becomes large. The receivers we use are some of the newest and most
accurate on the market. I think I'll have to breakout a radar gun to
get the level of calibration you ask for :) Currently, we depend
entirely on the GPS engine itself. I've seen tracking of 8 satellites,
with 6 and 7 common. These engines are buried into everything from
Onstar to personal locators. The technology is pretty mature, but in
the end - you're right. We need to verify every centimeter of speed.
This would of course be a really good experiment with some sort of a
known (radar gun) and the Speedcoach and an In2...



28 Jul 2005 10:57:58
Ewoud Dronkert
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:39:04 +0100, Jon Anderson wrote:
> simonk wrote:
>> We'd then just be a couple of servomotors away from replacing the cox
>> with a small shell script ...
>
> $ for i in swerve crash bang; do echo $i; done
> swerve
> crash
> bang

How do you propose to handle all the context-free grammar? Does cdsh
support bisons? I believe the standard install does include a gawk.

--
Firefox Browser - Rediscover the web - http://getffox.com/
Thunderbird E-mail and Newsgroups - http://gettbird.com/


28 Jul 2005 10:16:19
chris harrison
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:39:04 +0100, Jon Anderson wrote:
>
>>simonk wrote:
>>
>>>We'd then just be a couple of servomotors away from replacing the cox
>>>with a small shell script ...
>>
>>$ for i in swerve crash bang; do echo $i; done
>>swerve
>>crash
>>bang
>
>
> How do you propose to handle all the context-free grammar? Does cdsh
> support bisons? I believe the standard install does include a gawk.
>

more or less, I think he sed.



28 Jul 2005 10:48:58
mpruscoe
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
> Great questions! Speed over the earth's surface is measured - in 3D
> (rowing should be very nearly flat). We are NOT timing boats. We are
> giving instantaneous speed to the coxswain. We lost medal contention in
> the Head of the Charles by 6 seconds (or ~0.6%) - I know all about
> closeness and timing of races.
>
> You are correct. The overall error can be disappointing but this is a
> common math problem. If you integrate over time, even very minute error
> becomes large. The receivers we use are some of the newest and most
> accurate on the market. I think I'll have to breakout a radar gun to
> get the level of calibration you ask for :) Currently, we depend
> entirely on the GPS engine itself. I've seen tracking of 8 satellites,
> with 6 and 7 common. These engines are buried into everything from
> Onstar to personal locators. The technology is pretty mature, but in
> the end - you're right. We need to verify every centimeter of speed.
> This would of course be a really good experiment with some sort of a
> known (radar gun) and the Speedcoach and an In2...
>
I haven't heard anything recently about the Australian Rover system that
was supposedly going to use GPS coupled with an accelerometer, although
while looking I did find this:

Developing Prototype Multisensor GPS Rower Monitoring and Coaching
Systems for Olympics

http://geodesia.ufsc.br/Geodesia-online/arquivo/FIG/2004%20Atenas/papers/ts29/TS29_2_Zhang_et_al.pdf


28 Jul 2005 16:34:38
Walter Martindale
Re: New GPS Amplifier for Coxswains

mpruscoe wrote:
> seidle@in2rowing.com wrote:
>
>> Great questions! Speed over the earth's surface is measured - in 3D
>> (rowing should be very nearly flat). We are NOT timing boats. We are
>> giving instantaneous speed to the coxswain. We lost medal contention in
>> the Head of the Charles by 6 seconds (or ~0.6%) - I know all about
>> closeness and timing of races.
>>
>> You are correct. The overall error can be disappointing but this is a
>> common math problem. If you integrate over time, even very minute error
>> becomes large. The receivers we use are some of the newest and most
>> accurate on the market. I think I'll have to breakout a radar gun to
>> get the level of calibration you ask for :) Currently, we depend
>> entirely on the GPS engine itself. I've seen tracking of 8 satellites,
>> with 6 and 7 common. These engines are buried into everything from
>> Onstar to personal locators. The technology is pretty mature, but in
>> the end - you're right. We need to verify every centimeter of speed.
>> This would of course be a really good experiment with some sort of a
>> known (radar gun) and the Speedcoach and an In2...
>>
> I haven't heard anything recently about the Australian Rover system that
> was supposedly going to use GPS coupled with an accelerometer, although
> while looking I did find this:
>
> Developing Prototype Multisensor GPS Rower Monitoring and Coaching
> Systems for Olympics
>
> http://geodesia.ufsc.br/Geodesia-online/arquivo/FIG/2004%20Atenas/papers/ts29/TS29_2_Zhang_et_al.pdf
>
We own a Rover and are barely getting familiar with it. We're waiting
for them to meld NTSC capable codec into Logan software so we can synch
up our video with the velocity curves.
Walter