25 Jul 2005 06:43:26
Lightweights or shorties?

Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
weight limit?

Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
know that you either qualify or you don't?



25 Jul 2005 15:24:53
Alistair Potts
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

What about a hot day vs. a cold day (seriously). Or, big hair vs. no
hair. Or, compression of the skin under your heels. And compression of
the spine. What constitutes 'standing up straight'?

It's not going to make much difference to most, but for those within a
few millimeters of the chosen height (like me), we could be legal one
day and not the next.

A


c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
> weight limit?
>
> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
> know that you either qualify or you don't?
>


25 Jul 2005 15:28:31
Stuart Jones
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
> weight limit?
>
> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
> know that you either qualify or you don't?


I've been saying that for ages now. Lwt just isn't healthy for the vast
majority of competitors. And those that are naturally lwt tend to be
a bit shorter anyway. Add to that some of the top top lwt crews really
aren't that far off top hwt crews, it proves that if you're tall enough,
and good enough, you'll probably make it anyway.

It might also increase participation - shorter rugby-player-shaped types
might be able to take an active interest, and given the average height
in the UK for men is still only about 5'10", it'd open up a whole new
playing field.


25 Jul 2005 15:23:45
Carl Douglas
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk writes
>Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
>crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
>shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
>dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
>think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
>weight limit?
>
>Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
>and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
>know that you either qualify or you don't?
>

Just a case of cutting them down to size at the start of the season - is
that the idea?

Joking apart, is it true (as I heard today from a client who was there)
that a woman LWt competitor in Cardiff this weekend had to be carted off
in an ambulance after a sweat row? The
celery-stick-&-chicken-breast-only diet is a great way to turn good
middleweight rowers into terminal anorexics. It is also a form of
self-deception and cheating on oneself. The consequences of undue
weight loss on women rowers were openly discussed at the 1993 St Paul's
School coaching conference, resulting a number of rather quiet &
pale-faced coaches. I would have hoped that the necessary lessons had
been learned, but I am far from sure that the coaching hierarchies are
giving adequate consideration to what constitutes the minimum healthy
weight for competition of every lightweight athlete.

Cheers -
Carl
--
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URLs: www.carldouglas.co.uk (boats) & www.aerowing.co.uk (riggers)



25 Jul 2005 17:18:58
Christopher Anton
Re: Lightweights or shorties?


"Alistair Potts" <alistair.potts+rsr@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:42e4f635$0$25245$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> What about a hot day vs. a cold day (seriously). Or, big hair vs. no hair.
> Or, compression of the skin under your heels. And compression of the
> spine. What constitutes 'standing up straight'?
>
Well I didn't say it was perfect but problems can be overcome and you'd only
need to do it once at the start of the season and get a certifcate for that
season. It's far easier organising a callibrated height stick than making
sure you've got properly calibrated scales - the one's in Cardiff for
instance were 500g out the day before but had settled down on the day and
were reading OK.

Also it doesn't seduce people into making unhealthy decisions. You're either
under 1.85m or not (or whatever the limit would be) whereas if you're 80kg
or even heavier and fail to make a national team you might dedice to go
lightweight whether it's healthy for you OR NOT - see alexorig's pic on
faces of rsr for proof of the latter.




26 Jul 2005 10:34:59
Nick Bailey
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

After seeing Alex beat himself up for a year I came out firmly against
the concept of lightweight rowing - that's not to say that I don't have
an enormous respect for anyone that puts themselves forwards for any
sort of competition, but it does seem to encourage all the problems
mentioned. On the run-up to Nat Champs I spent many hours in the company
of a chap trying to get his weight down to the magical 70kg, and as well
as the obsession with calories and weight he had to content with fairly
severe mood swings as his glucose level fluctuated.

I think the problem with any sort of classification is that it is
arbitrary - I remember trying to lose a few 100g for a judo weigh-in
when I was about 10, just to get to the lower weight category! Any form
of arbitrary division is always going to cause problems for those on the
boundary, and of course the problem with a physical measurement which is
actually Dependant on training is going to compound the problems. Height
would be no less contentious and actually not terribly constructive -
we'd end up with lots of 5'9 prop-forwards propelling reinforced
Empachers with intimidating gearing and us weedy 5'10 (and above) chaps
may have no-where to go.

Realistically, lightweight rowing isn't going to disappear. At one point
we weren't sure if Lightweights were going to make it to Athens but they
did and imagine they will to Beijing too. The problem in this, as in
other safety issues, seems to be the lack of education. My lightweight
was existing on rice-cakes and tea, and recently had lunch composed of
two bottles of glucose and 6 low-fat lemon slices. It is clear that he
had really no idea how to regulate his diet in a larger sense, probably
because his coach hadn't made the effort. We successfully fed him on
brown pasta which kept him in a good mood for a good 4 hours and didn't
cause him to eat any more rice cakes during that period.

So, what is the accepted wisdom? Various lightweights (well, usually the
female ones that actually make an effort to understand this stuff) have
discussed a form of low GI diet, whereby one just eats foods that are
'slow release', avoiding the snack-eating and glucose spikes that lead
to the depression and moodiness experienced by many borderline
lightweights. But then you have to reconcile this with occasion
high-energy activities, ie. your evening outing.

It would be nice to have some sort of reference for this to help
lightweights both make the initial decision and succeed in balancing
their training and life. If anyone wants to compile some sort of
relatively definitive source I'd be happy to make it available.

Nick


...Sorry for the website outage yesterday afternoon...

-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------


26 Jul 2005 06:01:49
Re: Lightweights or shorties?



I quite agree that very tall, average build rowers who are not
particularly heavy or naturally lightweight should probably not be
forced into, or try to be, lightweight rowers. However, there are
some, I speak only of the one I know, who are 6' 3" bean poles for whom
being lightweight is second nature.
As others were doing sweat runs at the National Championships this
year, he was eating chocolate covered cereals bars before weigh in and
was still under the 72.5kg maximum. Very little effort had to be put
into feeding him so he made weight so making the magical 70kg would not
have been a problem had he been in a crew boat.
The maxim at out club has always been you only race at lightweight if
you can beat or compete well against heavyweights. If more people lived
by this maxim, there would probably be fewer anorexic looking
lightweights around.
Kathryn



26 Jul 2005 06:19:11
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

Nick Bailey wrote:
> After seeing Alex beat himself up for a year I came out firmly against
> the concept of lightweight rowing - that's not to say that I don't have
> an enormous respect for anyone that puts themselves forwards for any
> sort of competition, but it does seem to encourage all the problems
> mentioned. On the run-up to Nat Champs I spent many hours in the company
> of a chap trying to get his weight down to the magical 70kg, and as well
> as the obsession with calories and weight he had to content with fairly
> severe mood swings as his glucose level fluctuated.

some people just aren't meant to be lightweights; the question you need
to ask yourself when thinking about it is whether you will get better
percentages of PGMT at lightweight on weight or as a heavyweight, not
whether you can just somehow get to lightweight.

and just because some people diet stupidly and suffer doesn't mean that
no-one should diet to make weight. it amazes me that people will spend
20+ hours a week rowing, travelling to and from the river, etc in
search of small physiological and technical improvements, but will not
spend an afternoon finding a decent diet which could easily be worth 10
seconds and a few weeks of normal life instead of constant hunger and
glucose mood swings.

Peter



26 Jul 2005 14:24:42
mpruscoe
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

petersr1088@hotmail.com wrote:
> some people just aren't meant to be lightweights; the question you need
> to ask yourself when thinking about it is whether you will get better
> percentages of PGMT at lightweight on weight or as a heavyweight, not
> whether you can just somehow get to lightweight.

You can't use PGM like that without also considering the depth of the
event, i.e. the number of people competing and how good they are.


26 Jul 2005 14:47:02
Nick Bailey
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

> spend an afternoon finding a decent diet which could easily be worth 10
> seconds and a few weeks of normal life instead of constant hunger and
> glucose mood swings.

I agree completely. Anyone who trains to any extend modulates their
eating habits to affect their physiology, weight or body mass.
Lightweights seem to get trapped by the need to crash down to weight, of
course many are natural but it is a natural consequence of any arbitrary
limit that the best in the field are often the ones right on the borderline.

There just doesn't seem to be the educational support for lightweight
rowers specifically, I'd like to find a decent way to help my friend
achieve his aims but do it in a controlled and safe way so that he was
able to live a life not determined completely by his weight around
competition time. Lightweight rowers who have now moved on would
probably have some very valuable comments to make, as would anyone with
some training in nutrition specifically dealing with weight control.

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------


26 Jul 2005 10:58:38
Andrew
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
> weight limit?

To compete at the top level in sumo wrestling one needs to be above a
certain height. A story I heard (whilst suggesting that height not
weight should be used in rowing to some Japanese rowers) was that one
wrestler who was slightly below height had a cone built onto the top of
his head so he qualified. It would seem to me that height restrictions
could lead to an interesting industry in making people shorter.

Does anyone know how much ones height changes during the day?

Do any other sports use height as a criteria rather than weight?

Andrew

P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
chocolate bars during weigh in.



26 Jul 2005 14:34:26
Re: Lightweights or shorties?



Andrew wrote:
> > Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
> > crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
> > shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
> > dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
> > think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
> > weight limit?
>
> To compete at the top level in sumo wrestling one needs to be above a
> certain height. A story I heard (whilst suggesting that height not
> weight should be used in rowing to some Japanese rowers) was that one
> wrestler who was slightly below height had a cone built onto the top of
> his head so he qualified. It would seem to me that height restrictions
> could lead to an interesting industry in making people shorter.
>
> Does anyone know how much ones height changes during the day?
>
> Do any other sports use height as a criteria rather than weight?
>
> Andrew
>
> P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
> rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
> oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
> chocolate bars during weigh in.

We contemplated this and the Team Doctor said it would significantly
increase the uptake of fluids in what is a restricted time. However it
was decided that the sight of athletes with IV drips on their arms
would cause suspicion and if done away from public view but spotted
would look very dodgy. However in theory it is faster, more efficient
and for those who struggle to digest/absorb isotonic drinks it is much
better.



26 Jul 2005 22:07:50
Christopher Anton
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

"Andrew" <ajweaver1@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1122400718.746892.290360@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
> rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
> oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
> chocolate bars during weigh in.

Don't try it it's banned by the rules

Rule 24 - Lightweights

...Any rower who has been re-hydrated intravenously between the weigh-in and
the respective race shall not be allowed to start.




26 Jul 2005 22:09:25
Christopher Anton
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

<anton2468@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1122413666.104269.51850@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> We contemplated this and the Team Doctor said it would significantly
> increase the uptake of fluids in what is a restricted time.

If I were you I'd get a Team Doctor who's less ignorant of the rules. I hope
he's not so bad on banned substances as well.




27 Jul 2005 00:17:38
Adriaan
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

anton2468@aol.com wrote:

>>P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
>>rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
>>oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
>>chocolate bars during weigh in.
>
>
> We contemplated this and the Team Doctor said it would significantly
> increase the uptake of fluids in what is a restricted time. However it
> was decided that the sight of athletes with IV drips on their arms
> would cause suspicion and if done away from public view but spotted
> would look very dodgy. However in theory it is faster, more efficient
> and for those who struggle to digest/absorb isotonic drinks it is much
> better.

(un?)Fortunately FISA forbids this.

From the FISA rulebook:

Bye-Law to Rule 23:
Any athlete who has been re-hydrated intravenously between the
weigh-in and the respective race shall not be allowed to start.


I don't know about national rules, don't remember any mentioning of IV
in the Dutch rules.


--
Adriaan


26 Jul 2005 18:32:26
Re: Lightweights or shorties?



Adriaan wrote:
> anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>
> >>P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
> >>rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
> >>oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
> >>chocolate bars during weigh in.
> >
> >
> > We contemplated this and the Team Doctor said it would significantly
> > increase the uptake of fluids in what is a restricted time. However it
> > was decided that the sight of athletes with IV drips on their arms
> > would cause suspicion and if done away from public view but spotted
> > would look very dodgy. However in theory it is faster, more efficient
> > and for those who struggle to digest/absorb isotonic drinks it is much
> > better.
>
> (un?)Fortunately FISA forbids this.
>
> From the FISA rulebook:
>
> Bye-Law to Rule 23:
> Any athlete who has been re-hydrated intravenously between the
> weigh-in and the respective race shall not be allowed to start.
>
>
> I don't know about national rules, don't remember any mentioning of IV
> in the Dutch rules.
>
>
> --
> Adriaan

HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in. Mind u the idea
was dismissed before we looked too closely. TDF cyclists sleep with a
drip between races. But who knows whats dripping



27 Jul 2005 08:01:05
Ali Williams
Re: Lightweights or shorties?


>
> HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in. Mind u the idea
> was dismissed before we looked too closely. TDF cyclists sleep with a
> drip between races. But who knows whats dripping
>

Yes, but that when they caught Festina for EPO use as they were using IV
drips to increase the water content of the blood and avoid detection of
their over-high red blood cell count.


27 Jul 2005 09:52:01
chris harrison
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in. Mind u the idea
> was dismissed before we looked too closely. TDF cyclists sleep with a
> drip between races. But who knows whats dripping
>

It could be nothing special (quite normal for ultra long distance
events), in order to mask other effects (e.g. EPO) or your own,
pre-stored stuff (cf. Tyler Hamilton).

It's one of the borderline cases - while banned in the rules, there's no
reason for this, aside from it being *potentially* nefarious. IV drops
are more efficient than by mouth - yet it's illegal. You can ingest
dodgy supplements, yet water bottles are not banned.


27 Jul 2005 01:51:59
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

>
> HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in. Mind u the idea
> was dismissed before we looked too closely. TDF cyclists sleep with a
> drip between races. But who knows whats dripping

Not sure. As A3aan has quoted it from bye law to rule 23 and I've
listed it as a substantive part of rule 24 it suggests that A's quote
is from the rules from the last Olympiad and it came in around about
2000ish.

I'm sure DB had copies of the old rules feretted away somewhere and may
be able to provide the answer.



27 Jul 2005 09:54:49
mpruscoe
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>>HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in. Mind u the idea
>>was dismissed before we looked too closely. TDF cyclists sleep with a
>>drip between races. But who knows whats dripping
>
>
> Not sure. As A3aan has quoted it from bye law to rule 23 and I've
> listed it as a substantive part of rule 24 it suggests that A's quote
> is from the rules from the last Olympiad and it came in around about
> 2000ish.
>
> I'm sure DB had copies of the old rules feretted away somewhere and may
> be able to provide the answer.
>
A quick check on google suggests that it was introduced since 2001.

www.fisa.org/documents/word07_000126.PDF


27 Jul 2005 11:10:04
Ewoud Dronkert
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:52:01 +0100, chris harrison wrote:
> or your own, pre-stored stuff (cf. Tyler Hamilton).

Hamilton got busted for showing two distinct RBC populations. The test is
highly controversial, though (which Hamilton was not able to make stick
with the board of arbitration). Believers in the test (a right choice of
words, seeing as there was no false positive rate investigation preceding
its official implementation) take Hamilton's teammate Perez' simultaneous
positive test as indication for their "switched bag theory".

--
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27 Jul 2005 12:25:54
Nick Bailey
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and training
knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of reference
material for lightweight rowers? If I don't get any response from here I
will mention this mini-project to Robin Williams the next time I see him
(he's now taken over the GB Lightweights) and also see if there's anyone
on the GB support staff that might be willing contribute.

(It seems to me that all this talk of crash weight loss and IV fluids is
all very gung-ho but doesn't offer the sort of proper support that will
enable serious borderline-weight athletes to understand how to compete
properly and sustain training over an extended period. I imagine FISA's
main reason for banning IV fluids is that they would not want to imply
that crash weight loss is acceptable, and remember that your weigh-in
weight is at least morally supposed to be your race weight. I'm sure
specifically skilled medical staff could dramatically reduce and restore
weight but that is clearly even less good for the reputation of the sport.)

Nick


-------------------------
http://www.rowdata.co.uk
Advanced Rowing Equipment
07946 526135
-------------------------



c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
> weight limit?
>
> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
> know that you either qualify or you don't?
>


27 Jul 2005 04:48:54
Anne Rogers
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

that's an excellent idea, nobody medical is going to recommend ways of
losing weight you don't need to lose, but if there were some standard
guidelines available, it would definitely help club rowers who want to
row lightweight, might be useful to have some info for coxes too.

Anne (who needs to lose weight)



27 Jul 2005 12:49:35
mpruscoe
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

Nick Bailey wrote:
> Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and training
> knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of reference
> material for lightweight rowers? If I don't get any response from here I
> will mention this mini-project to Robin Williams the next time I see him
> (he's now taken over the GB Lightweights) and also see if there's anyone
> on the GB support staff that might be willing contribute.
>
> (It seems to me that all this talk of crash weight loss and IV fluids is
> all very gung-ho but doesn't offer the sort of proper support that will
> enable serious borderline-weight athletes to understand how to compete
> properly and sustain training over an extended period. I imagine FISA's
> main reason for banning IV fluids is that they would not want to imply
> that crash weight loss is acceptable, and remember that your weigh-in
> weight is at least morally supposed to be your race weight. I'm sure
> specifically skilled medical staff could dramatically reduce and restore
> weight but that is clearly even less good for the reputation of the sport.)
>
> Nick
>
>
> -------------------------
> http://www.rowdata.co.uk
> Advanced Rowing Equipment
> 07946 526135
> -------------------------
>
>
>
> c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
>> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
>> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
>> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
>> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
>> weight limit?
>>
>> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
>> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
>> know that you either qualify or you don't?
>>

http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.php?article=towey_oconnor


27 Jul 2005 13:00:18
Nick Bailey
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

That link is a good start but the conclusion seems to be that small
amounts of high-energy foods are a good thing, whereas one of the
problems is control of glucose levels. They also advocate just not
eating much in the two days before a race, presumably leading to 2 days
of effectively famine. There must be a better way that leads to better
overall control of weight rather than just preparing your body weight
for specific races.

Nick


mpruscoe wrote:
> Nick Bailey wrote:
>
>> Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and
>> training knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of
>> reference material for lightweight rowers? If I don't get any response
>> from here I will mention this mini-project to Robin Williams the next
>> time I see him (he's now taken over the GB Lightweights) and also see
>> if there's anyone on the GB support staff that might be willing
>> contribute.
>>
>> (It seems to me that all this talk of crash weight loss and IV fluids
>> is all very gung-ho but doesn't offer the sort of proper support that
>> will enable serious borderline-weight athletes to understand how to
>> compete properly and sustain training over an extended period. I
>> imagine FISA's main reason for banning IV fluids is that they would
>> not want to imply that crash weight loss is acceptable, and remember
>> that your weigh-in weight is at least morally supposed to be your race
>> weight. I'm sure specifically skilled medical staff could dramatically
>> reduce and restore weight but that is clearly even less good for the
>> reputation of the sport.)
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> -------------------------
>> http://www.rowdata.co.uk
>> Advanced Rowing Equipment
>> 07946 526135
>> -------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
>>> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
>>> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
>>> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
>>> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
>>> weight limit?
>>>
>>> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
>>> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
>>> know that you either qualify or you don't?
>>>
>
> http://www.concept2.co.uk/guide/guide.php?article=towey_oconnor


27 Jul 2005 14:30:33
Jay L
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

No us natural lightweights (I I've just broken through 72kg's) don't
want the heavy guys to cross over!!! :) just kidding, would still be
interesting to see what science thinks about it...

Nick Bailey wrote:
> Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and training
> knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of reference
> material for lightweight rowers? If I don't get any response from here I
> will mention this mini-project to Robin Williams the next time I see him
> (he's now taken over the GB Lightweights) and also see if there's anyone
> on the GB support staff that might be willing contribute.
>
> (It seems to me that all this talk of crash weight loss and IV fluids is
> all very gung-ho but doesn't offer the sort of proper support that will
> enable serious borderline-weight athletes to understand how to compete
> properly and sustain training over an extended period. I imagine FISA's
> main reason for banning IV fluids is that they would not want to imply
> that crash weight loss is acceptable, and remember that your weigh-in
> weight is at least morally supposed to be your race weight. I'm sure
> specifically skilled medical staff could dramatically reduce and restore
> weight but that is clearly even less good for the reputation of the sport.)
>
> Nick
>
>
> -------------------------
> http://www.rowdata.co.uk
> Advanced Rowing Equipment
> 07946 526135
> -------------------------
>
>
>
> c.anton@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Having yet again drawn the short straw and having to get up at the
>> crack of dawn in Cardiff to weigh lightweights at the EUSA regatta and
>> shared vicariously in the anxious test weighings, sweat runs,
>> dehydration, and stuffing of the face thereafter does anyone else
>> think it would be a better idea to have a height limit rather than a
>> weight limit?
>>
>> Easy to do, need only be done once - say at the start of each season,
>> and nobody will feel pressurised into dangerous eating habits - you
>> know that you either qualify or you don't?
>>


28 Jul 2005 07:20:59
David Biddulph
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

<anton2468@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1122427945.931235.9830@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Adriaan wrote:
>> anton2468@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> >>P.S. Do any of those lightweights foolish enough to sweat down,
>> >>rehydrage with IV fluids? Might be more entertaining to start filling
>> >>oneself with fluids that way after weighing in, that munching on
>> >>chocolate bars during weigh in.

>> > We contemplated this and the Team Doctor said it would significantly
>> > increase the uptake of fluids in what is a restricted time. However it
>> > was decided that the sight of athletes with IV drips on their arms
>> > would cause suspicion and if done away from public view but spotted
>> > would look very dodgy. However in theory it is faster, more efficient
>> > and for those who struggle to digest/absorb isotonic drinks it is much
>> > better.

>> (un?)Fortunately FISA forbids this.
>>
>> From the FISA rulebook:
>>
>> Bye-Law to Rule 23:
>> Any athlete who has been re-hydrated intravenously between the
>> weigh-in and the respective race shall not be allowed to start.
>>
>> I don't know about national rules, don't remember any mentioning of IV
>> in the Dutch rules.

> HMMM this was in 98. I wonder when the rule came in.

That change to the FISA rulebook was dated February 2003.

[As Christopher has pointed out, the bit that was previously a bye-law to
rule 23 in the 2003 & 2004 versions of the rules is now part of rule 24 in
the 2005 version.]
--
David Biddulph
Rowing web pages at http://www.biddulph.org.uk/
and http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/david_biddulph/




29 Jul 2005 16:48:47
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

The climbers among cyclists have gotten much better
at weight control than rowers. People like Chris
Carmichael will be happy to coach you in nutrition
over the internet for $$$.

The rules seem to be:
1. Eat enough carbs to avoid burning muscle.
2. Eat enough protein to keep muscle from wasting.
3. Replenish ASAP after each exercise; if exercise
goes on long enough, replenish water&carbs during
exercise.
4. Since you're already replenished after exercise, you
probably don't have to eat very much the rest of the time
if you're still close on weight -- perhaps small amounts
of protein to adhere to #2 above.
3. Very little room for fats (even veg fats) -- even less
for rowers than for cyclists who can burn fat on long rides.
4. Insulin is your friend -- it causes muscles to store
carbs/glycogen (but also to store fat if you eat fat).
5. Buy a blood glucose tester -- quite cheap -- so
you can correlate your blood glucose with how (lousy)
you feel.
6. Burn fat (if nec) with LSD (long slow distance)
workouts (row,cycle,jog); keep heart rate very low
(<110bpm).

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:25:54 +0100, Nick Bailey
<nick@REMOVETHISBITrowdata.co.uk > wrote:

>Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and training
>knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of reference
>material for lightweight rowers?


30 Jul 2005 23:58:05
Jeremy Fagan
Re: Lightweights or shorties?

Nick Bailey wrote:
> Serious question - is there anyone out there with nutrition and training
> knowledge who would be willing to contribute to some sort of reference
> material for lightweight rowers? If I don't get any response from here I
> will mention this mini-project to Robin Williams the next time I see him
> (he's now taken over the GB Lightweights) and also see if there's anyone
> on the GB support staff that might be willing contribute.

He'll have read the very interesting article on hydration and
rehydration in a recent edition of Peak Performance. Basically, two
factors in fluid uptake - stomach emptying rate, and uptake in the small
intestine. Conclusion was (if I remember) that weak electrolytic drink
was best for fast hydration.

Plenty of standard stuff on diet around that is useful. Low residue
diets for a day or two before the weigh-in are useful as well - and are
not harmful.

I managed the weigh in at Nat Champs this year with a (very useful) warm
up on the Rowperfects before hand, and then drinking slightly weak
Electrolytic drink after the weigh in (around 1.5 litres of the stuff).
Eating would have affected the uptake of fluid and glucose in the drink.

Felt absolutely fine racing both days. I have raced dehydrated in the
past, and know what it feels like, so I'm convinced that I had
rehydrated effectively all that I needed to (and my pee was clear all
weekend!)

>
> (It seems to me that all this talk of crash weight loss and IV fluids is
> all very gung-ho but doesn't offer the sort of proper support that will
> enable serious borderline-weight athletes to understand how to compete
> properly and sustain training over an extended period. I imagine FISA's
> main reason for banning IV fluids is that they would not want to imply
> that crash weight loss is acceptable, and remember that your weigh-in
> weight is at least morally supposed to be your race weight.

If that was the case, the weigh-in would be when you collect your race
number...

Jeremy