30 Aug 2006 18:53:42
Tyler
Erging and Music

First I'd like to say the people in this group know an extrodinary
amount about rowing. Being in the U.S. sometimes it is hard to follow
all the things that are going on across the sea, but I still see an
amazing amount of knowledge in all the posts. With that said...

What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
training with music can distract you?

Thanks,

Tyler :)

p.s. I tried searching the group for similar topics, but only found
what kinds of music people listen to.



31 Aug 2006 00:25:36
Rob Collings
Re: Erging and Music

Tyler wrote:

> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
> other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
> training with music can distract you?

I always erg to music - otherwise I'd die from boredom.

>From http://www.rowperfect.com.au/training_ideas.html(although they
don't cite their source):

Music
A recent study showed that power output in athletes involved in aerobic
exercise may increase by up to 7% when music is included in a training
session. Imagine a supplement which could achieve a similar improvement
- it would sell better than hotcakes! Experience tells me that figure
is correct, and I would encourage anyone to include music in almost any
session, particularly for longer pieces. Personal experience tells me
that live recordings work well - but we are all different, and you
should use whichever music you enjoy - if you actually enjoy it at
all.



31 Aug 2006 02:16:06
Stamps
Re: Erging and Music

Rob Collings wrote:
> A recent study showed that power output in athletes involved in aerobic
> exercise may increase by up to 7% when music is included in a training
> session

I used to always ensure I had some music, but found that within 5
minutes I no longer heard it, and would get to the end of the piece and
wonder what I had been listening to. When I was training for the
marathon I would use my ipod, and apart from the batteries failing
before the end of my runs (ipod mini, hopeless), again it could have
been anything. I seem incapable of active listening while exercising,
anyone else find this? Anyway, would you get the reported performance
benefits just by having it on even if you aren't 'listening'? Is this
why my erg times are getting worse - I had thought it was due to the
gradually reducing amount of training I was putting in!

Stamps



31 Aug 2006 03:03:23
david.henderson@aea.be
Re: Erging and Music

Is this the definitive source?
http://www.rowingservice.com/ergingtomusic05.doc

Dave H


Tyler wrote:
> First I'd like to say the people in this group know an extrodinary
> amount about rowing. Being in the U.S. sometimes it is hard to follow
> all the things that are going on across the sea, but I still see an
> amazing amount of knowledge in all the posts. With that said...
>
> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
> other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
> training with music can distract you?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tyler :)
>
> p.s. I tried searching the group for similar topics, but only found
> what kinds of music people listen to.



31 Aug 2006 03:39:08
simonk
Re: Erging and Music

Tyler wrote:

> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing.

Suggest to him that as long as you get the scores you need, it's none
of his business?

FWIW I don't tend to use an iPod because the earphones get sweaty and
horrible, but I like having a radio turned on nearby. Has to be turned
up loud, of course

--
simonk



31 Aug 2006 13:32:19
Jeremy Fagan
Re: Erging and Music

Rob Collings wrote:
> Tyler wrote:
>
>
>>What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
>>had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
>>the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
>>other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
>>training with music can distract you?
>
>
> I always erg to music - otherwise I'd die from boredom.
>
>>From http://www.rowperfect.com.au/training_ideas.html(although they
> don't cite their source):
>
> Music
> A recent study showed that power output in athletes involved in aerobic
> exercise may increase by up to 7% when music is included in a training
> session. Imagine a supplement which could achieve a similar improvement
> - it would sell better than hotcakes! Experience tells me that figure
> is correct, and I would encourage anyone to include music in almost any
> session, particularly for longer pieces. Personal experience tells me
> that live recordings work well - but we are all different, and you
> should use whichever music you enjoy - if you actually enjoy it at
> all.
>

There was an article in Peak Performance No. 228 about music and video
as ergogenic aids, arguing that music can have positive effects - one of
which was that it may distract you, but since it's mostly pain that it
distracts you from, the distraction can actually help. It can also
stimulate / calm you before competition, help with rhythm (if you can
find music at the right rating..), and may increase positive mood.

One important point it brought out, though, was that music is highly
individualised - you can't really use the same music for a large group
of people and expect it to have the same effect on them all. My doubles
partner and I would be found sitting apart from each other before some
races, with him listening to Kaiser Chiefs and Gorillaz, and me
listening to Verdi's Requiem..

Jeremy


31 Aug 2006 05:36:58
donal.casey@gmail.com
Re: Erging and Music

v dangerous to run with an ipod...a friend of mine was doing this and
inadvertantly crossed road and was hit by car travelling at
50mph..lucky to be simply tossed 30 yards and not killed..not even any
broken bones..think its a bit safer on an ergo though personally I find
them too noisy to enjoy listening to music

Donal
Stamps wrote:
> Rob Collings wrote:
> > A recent study showed that power output in athletes involved in aerobic
> > exercise may increase by up to 7% when music is included in a training
> > session
>
> I used to always ensure I had some music, but found that within 5
> minutes I no longer heard it, and would get to the end of the piece and
> wonder what I had been listening to. When I was training for the
> marathon I would use my ipod, and apart from the batteries failing
> before the end of my runs (ipod mini, hopeless), again it could have
> been anything. I seem incapable of active listening while exercising,
> anyone else find this? Anyway, would you get the reported performance
> benefits just by having it on even if you aren't 'listening'? Is this
> why my erg times are getting worse - I had thought it was due to the
> gradually reducing amount of training I was putting in!
>
> Stamps



31 Aug 2006 13:03:06
Joseph Meehan
Re: Erging and Music

Tyler wrote:
> First I'd like to say the people in this group know an extrodinary
> amount about rowing. Being in the U.S. sometimes it is hard to follow
> all the things that are going on across the sea, but I still see an
> amazing amount of knowledge in all the posts. With that said...
>
> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus
> on the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just
> wondering other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that
> shows doing training with music can distract you?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tyler :)
>
> p.s. I tried searching the group for similar topics, but only found
> what kinds of music people listen to.

I guess there are pros and cons. I often watch TV and sometimes listen
to music. I erg mostly to build and maintain muscle tone and strength. I
try and watch myself to make sure I am not falling into bad form, but I am
not really working on technique. I do that on the water. Then again I am
not a racer. I don't mind if I am a little off the cutting edge.

I row for fun and exercise.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit




31 Aug 2006 07:17:01
Rob
Re: Erging and Music

"A little off the cutting edge." I like that.

Ten or so years ago I read that there are runners who "associate" with
their running and those who "dissociate." IE think about the running
or look at the scenery. The better runners think about the running.
Of course this is a correlation, not a cause and effect relationship.

The idea that music or drumbeats can improve performance seems a bit
far out to me in the sense of the cause being the sound itself. It
doesn't seem scientific to me; where's the control group? What I mean
is: might it just be that the sound causes an increase in
concentration level or effort level that might be achieved in any of a
number of ways?

Compare one quad doing a test race piece with another doing the same
piece on the same water--but being chased (silently but visibly) by a
great white shark!!

Rob Slocum



31 Aug 2006 07:20:56
Rob Collings
Re: Erging and Music

Rob wrote:

> Compare one quad doing a test race piece with another doing the same
> piece on the same water--but being chased (silently but visibly) by a
> great white shark!!

Change that to "great white swan" and I'm sure that there's plenty of
data about.

Rob.



31 Aug 2006 08:59:58
J Flory
Re: Erging and Music


simonk wrote:
> FWIW I don't tend to use an iPod because the earphones get sweaty and
> horrible, but I like having a radio turned on nearby.
> simonk

Try these: http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er6i.aspx

(1) don't get sweaty
(2) spectacular sound
(3) block out ambient noise very effectively (but as noted above don't
use them where you DO need to hear sounds around you for safety
reasons!)

Expensive but oh so worth it.

Bought them one day after enduring 45 minutes of idle chit-chat from
three people on machines right next to me. Couldn't drown these three
out with the standard earbuds. Now I use the iPod at the gym when
doing weights or using aerobic machines, including ergs. Perfect for
blocking out the gym's TV's (CNN!) and general chatter, and for music
to motivate me.

At home I erg to TV, something just interesting enough to keep me going
but not so interesting I forget to try to maintain good form. Law &
Order works well. On the erg I'm trying to improve my aerobic
conditioning, usually not technique, but still don't want to learn bad
form which might carry over onto the water (or lead to injury).



31 Aug 2006 09:53:03
meshmonkey
Re: Erging and Music

I would suggest it's all a personal choice. Whatever floats your boat
so to speak.

With respect to increase in output, I'm not sure this would be
applicable to duration ergs performed in a set HR zone. In this
training mode (generally the longest ergs) staying in the target zone
rather than the "scores on the doors" is more important.

There are obviously some downsides to music - radio's can become
annoying (no control of output), and even CD's can stick (I've heard a
story of a 90min group erg done to a stuck CD because nobody had the
balls to get off and nudge it!).

As a coach, I must admit that I don't care much for athletes who
request music during tests, as I think in this situation it is
important to see the athlete perform without "influence".

For long training ergs, my own preference is to try and recreate
conditions in a boat as best as possible. To this end I've recorded a
series of coxswains and play their commentary through a vintage
cassette deck (to get the crackles) and place a pair of wellington
boots over the speaker. I also employ a chap to sit behind me grumbling
about various things and at regular intervals he throws a bucket of
cold water over me whilst yelling "cut your wash gonzo". I've tried
getting him to give some technical tips through a megaphone, but this
wasn't too successful as it was much easier on the erg to stop and
thump him than if he'd been in a coaching launch.



31 Aug 2006 13:04:31
boatie
Re: Erging and Music


meshmonkey wrote:
>[snip]
>
> For long training ergs, my own preference is to try and recreate
> conditions in a boat as best as possible. To this end I've recorded a
> series of coxswains and play their commentary through a vintage
> cassette deck (to get the crackles) and place a pair of wellington
> boots over the speaker. I also employ a chap to sit behind me grumbling
> about various things and at regular intervals he throws a bucket of
> cold water over me whilst yelling "cut your wash gonzo". I've tried
> getting him to give some technical tips through a megaphone, but this
> wasn't too successful as it was much easier on the erg to stop and
> thump him than if he'd been in a coaching launch.

Fantastic. I must learn to visualise better while on the water and the
erg!

This morning (on the water) it was a powerboat driver who didn't know
about speed limits and was muttering about missing the tide at the half
lock when it was still coming in. A canny double dodged and dived in
front on him trying to prevent him overtaking.... then the verbal
started. If only I'd known that I could have recreated the whole thing
in the comfort of my own garage! ;-)



31 Aug 2006 13:23:16
KC
Re: Erging and Music


Joseph Meehan wrote:

> I row for fun and exercise.

What kind of weirdo freek are you???

-KC



31 Aug 2006 21:30:26
Henry Law
Re: Erging and Music

Tyler wrote:
> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
> other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
> training with music can distract you?

I think this varies by individual. Personally I cannot ignore music -
there's always some part of my brain that is listening to it (and
therefore crying out in pain when it's pub muzak) no matter what else is
going on. And accordingly I find I can't erg to music: it distracts me
and before I know where I am I'm doing UT2 when I'm supposed to be going
all out.

Perhaps I could learn, I suppose.

--

Henry Law < >< Manchester, England


31 Aug 2006 16:49:31
Tyler
Re: Erging and Music

As expected a multitude of many differenent answers. Just what I
wanted, thanks so much. I guess it really does depend on personal
preference. It's hard to focus during 60+ minute pieces.

Does anyone think that training with music and then racing without it
may have an adverse affect. I always lift before rowing, because I
have read that it makes you much better for a race when you don't lift
and then row.

Do you think the opposite could be true for this situation?

Tyler



31 Aug 2006 16:42:40
Mike Sullivan
Re: Erging and Music


"Jeremy Fagan" <fagangroups@mac.com > wrote in message
news:i8idnYstAKZJS2vZRVnyqQ@pipex.net...
> Rob Collings wrote:

snip

> races, with him listening to Kaiser Chiefs and Gorillaz, and me listening
> to Verdi's Requiem..

I can understand the Dies Irae section but
what happens to your erg rhythm when you
get to the Lacrimosa part or Agnus Dei?


I hate music while exercising. When I get back
into real coaching I'm going to piss off some
ppl I bet....





31 Aug 2006 17:31:58
Re: Erging and Music

Like everyone else who's responded, it's a purely personal opinion, but
for an ergo I'm as happy listening to speech as music - for a long one
a 90-minute radio play, or even a commentary on a football match I
wouldn't otherwise even bother looking up the result for.
Having said that, I'm known for having the ergo-room radio tuned to
Classic FM, on the grounds that the pieces tend to last longer so time
seems to pass quicker. Whatever floats your unfloatable ergo, I
suppose.
On the other hand, I've never taken any sort of sound source while
running, cycling or rowing OTW. Never felt the need.


Tyler wrote:
> First I'd like to say the people in this group know an extrodinary
> amount about rowing. Being in the U.S. sometimes it is hard to follow
> all the things that are going on across the sea, but I still see an
> amazing amount of knowledge in all the posts. With that said...
>
> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
> other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
> training with music can distract you?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tyler :)
>
> p.s. I tried searching the group for similar topics, but only found
> what kinds of music people listen to.



01 Sep 2006 02:24:12
J Flory
Re: Erging and Music


Tyler wrote:
> As expected a multitude of many differenent answers. Just what I
> wanted, thanks so much. I guess it really does depend on personal
> preference. It's hard to focus during 60+ minute pieces.
>
> Does anyone think that training with music and then racing without it
> may have an adverse affect. I always lift before rowing, because I
> have read that it makes you much better for a race when you don't lift
> and then row.
>
> Do you think the opposite could be true for this situation?
>
> Tyler

For a musical break from erg-ing, commandeer treadmills and try this:

http://www.fugufish.org/frog/?p=38



01 Sep 2006 23:07:06
Jeremy Fagan
Re: Erging and Music

Mike Sullivan wrote:
> "Jeremy Fagan" <fagangroups@mac.com> wrote in message
> news:i8idnYstAKZJS2vZRVnyqQ@pipex.net...
>
>>Rob Collings wrote:
>
>
> snip
>
>
>>races, with him listening to Kaiser Chiefs and Gorillaz, and me listening
>>to Verdi's Requiem..
>
>
> I can understand the Dies Irae section but
> what happens to your erg rhythm when you
> get to the Lacrimosa part or Agnus Dei?
>
>
You go back and listen to the Dies Irae again.. I don't tend to listen
to much while rowing or erging - probably just the radio on in the gym.

Jeremy


02 Sep 2006 13:48:21
bill
Re: Erging and Music


Tyler wrote:
> First I'd like to say the people in this group know an extrodinary
> amount about rowing. Being in the U.S. sometimes it is hard to follow
> all the things that are going on across the sea, but I still see an
> amazing amount of knowledge in all the posts. With that said...
>
> What is everyone's opinion on listening to music while erging. I have
> had a coach that will not allow it because he says you need to focus on
> the rowing. I sort of agree with this, however I was just wondering
> other's opinion. Does anyone know of any reason/proof that shows doing
> training with music can distract you?
>
When I was a busy hockey kid, sometimes during warm-up at a game, music
would come on. I distinctly remember the rush that came over me ther
first time this happened. Of course it was "Hit Me With Your Best
Shot" for obvious reasons.

But then either as a result of that or just an awareness came to me
that sometimes I'd be playing my own inner soundtrack when exercising.
This was quite distinctly helpful in my summer bicycle racing in time
trials. I got pretty good at them and started winning money at 15. I
can't say it was the music in my head but it certainly made me feel
more motivated. Then I got too interested in sailing and girls and that
was the end of bike racing for a while.

I never rode with a walkman though as it seemed a Bad Idea for safety's
sake.

BTW Liberace doesn't work very well. And Shostakovitch is too
depressing. And girls like music too:-)



02 Sep 2006 13:53:34
bill
Re: Erging and Music


KC wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
> > I row for fun and exercise.
>
> What kind of weirdo freek are you???
>
Hahaha I get it ;-)