20 Feb 2006 01:12:24
Jacko
Bird flu and rowing

Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
us?



20 Feb 2006 09:17:53
H.Atkinson
Re: Bird flu and rowing

I have heard that it will still be OK to row as long as the club has access
to anti-bacterial wash once people are off the water. However I personally
think that the impact could be a lot greater.

"Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk > wrote in message
news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
> bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
> rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
> has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
> jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
> us?
>




20 Feb 2006 10:22:18
simonk
Re: Bird flu and rowing

"Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk > wrote in message
news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...


> Could there be a knee jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any
> ideas? Can they stop us?

The recent "glorifying terrorism" debate suggests that the current HMG are
more interested in using laws to "send out a message" than to have a
practical effect. So, yes.

--
simonk




20 Feb 2006 02:38:17
donal.casey@gmail.com
Re: Bird flu and rowing

Im not so sure that it wont be problemattic - During the mad cow
disease outbreak in the uk most of the area that I live in was out of
bounds - including the rowing club as its in a country park - for the
best part of 6 months.

Regards

Donal

H.Atkinson wrote:
> I have heard that it will still be OK to row as long as the club has access
> to anti-bacterial wash once people are off the water. However I personally
> think that the impact could be a lot greater.
>
> "Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
> > bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
> > rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
> > has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
> > jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
> > us?
> >



20 Feb 2006 04:01:32
Phil
Re: Bird flu and rowing


donal.casey@gmail.com wrote:
> Im not so sure that it wont be problemattic - During the mad cow
> disease outbreak in the uk


Foot-and-mouth , surely? We were one of a handful of places still
rowing - Bristol Harbour.

If we have an avian 'flu outbreak, will they stop people going
outdoors? Everywhere? I don't see how. Perhaps they might get rid of
the swans though.

Phil.



20 Feb 2006 04:08:47
donal.casey@gmail.com
Re: Bird flu and rowing

Yep Phil- foot and mouth

Its not so bad for people in towns but in the countryside its quite
tricky. You couldnt go running etc and there are only so many ergos you
can do and remain sane....

Ive just got back from France and there news programs were taking it
pretty seriously and showing what looked like similarly draconian
measures for keeping human contact away from wild fowl.

Swans are perhaps obvious birds at risk but of course it extends to
ducks herons moor hens kingfishers buzzards - all of which are in their
abundance on our little stretch of river..

Donal
Phil wrote:
> donal.casey@gmail.com wrote:
> > Im not so sure that it wont be problemattic - During the mad cow
> > disease outbreak in the uk
>
>
> Foot-and-mouth , surely? We were one of a handful of places still
> rowing - Bristol Harbour.
>
> If we have an avian 'flu outbreak, will they stop people going
> outdoors? Everywhere? I don't see how. Perhaps they might get rid of
> the swans though.
>
> Phil.



20 Feb 2006 12:47:11
Alistair Potts
Re: Bird flu and rowing

donal.casey@gmail.com wrote:
> Yep Phil- foot and mouth
>
> Its not so bad for people in towns but in the countryside its quite
> tricky. You couldnt go running etc and there are only so many ergos you
> can do and remain sane....

Quite right. Just ask the poor cows.


20 Feb 2006 05:01:30
donal.casey@gmail.com
Re: Bird flu and rowing

sorry I dont have a weeja board handy - perhaps you are better at comms
with deceased bovines?



20 Feb 2006 13:42:36
Andy McKenzie
Re: Bird flu and rowing

"H.Atkinson" <H.Atkinson@lboro.ac.uk > wrote in message
news:dtc1g2$fqk$1@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk...
>I have heard that it will still be OK to row as long as the club has access
>to anti-bacterial wash once people are off the water. However I personally
>think that the impact could be a lot greater.
>
> "Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
>> bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
>> rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
>> has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
>> jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
>> us?
>>
Just being pedantic, but isn't flu a virus? anti bacterial handwashes are
not going to be a great help (not sure what you are meant to wash anyway -
the rower or the swan?)

Andy




20 Feb 2006 06:01:43
donal.casey@gmail.com
Re: Bird flu and rowing

sorry I dont have a weeja board handy - perhaps you are better at comms
with deceased bovines?



20 Feb 2006 08:03:32
Rookie
Re: Bird flu and rowing


Andy McKenzie wrote:
> "H.Atkinson" <H.Atkinson@lboro.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:dtc1g2$fqk$1@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk...
> >I have heard that it will still be OK to row as long as the club has access
> >to anti-bacterial wash once people are off the water. However I personally
> >think that the impact could be a lot greater.
> >
> > "Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >> Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
> >> bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
> >> rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
> >> has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
> >> jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
> >> us?
> >>
> Just being pedantic, but isn't flu a virus? anti bacterial handwashes are
> not going to be a great help (not sure what you are meant to wash anyway -
> the rower or the swan?)
>
> Andy

Depends whether the point is to contain the virus or to make it look as
if everything possible is being done to protect the public. Of course,
trying to sponge down an angry swan isn't going to protect anybody...



20 Feb 2006 08:28:28
Re: Bird flu and rowing


Jacko wrote:
> Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
> bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
> rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
> has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
> jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
> us?

Bird flu will not be like madcow

Once it is here and sure enough it's a matter of weeks if not days if
it's not here already, it will be here to stay.......

So get used to it.



20 Feb 2006 16:45:40
Rachel Quarrell
Re: Bird flu and rowing

Viruses vary vastly. (ooh love the alliteration).

Some (eg FMD, the common cold) are robust and can survive in the
environment for days, either in water droplets, faeces, on the surfaces of
plants/animals, or a variety. Others (eg HIV) are fragile little
organisms which shrivel quickly when they leave the nice warm interior of
their host. Although bird flu seems to need direct contact between bird
and human to transmit, this does include contact with bird faecal
material, which we know there is plenty of in our lovely rivers. It's
possible the water environment will be hostile to the virus, but not
certain (it wasn't to FMD).

Annoyingly, the WHO's latest evidence is that H5N1 is not only capable of
surviving for ages in the environment, but particularly in bird faeces.
So get those dock-protection mechanisms going now, or yes, we will
probably be banned from river access. See
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/for more.
I think the WHO's quoted H5N1 survival rates (up to six days at an
environmental temperature of 37 deg C) suggest this virus may not even be
wiped out in the summer, as FMD was. Grr.

Antibacterials will do nothing, though if a virus can survive for a while
outside a host, merely wiping/cleaning is useful. Surface disinfectants,
including the quaternary charged-residue types, are ideal. They can't
lead to cell mutation, since they stick to and disrupt the cell wall of
the virus/bacterium and completely kill it. As long as enough
disinfectant is used, they're highly effective, and they're useful on both
types of organism. Please please don't use 'antibacterial' products,
other than for specific known bacterial infections. They just increase
the incidence of MRSA and other resistant strains. Triclosan, the active
ingredient of Microban(R) products, is an enzyme inhibitor with a
mechanism of action not massively different from that of antibiotics,
which does open the option of creating resistance. Stick to the
old-fashioned disinfectant products (in the UK, Dettol etc) to protect
yourself against anything from winter 'flu to FMD/H5N1. And stay away
from the birds and their sh1t.

RQ.



On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Andy McKenzie wrote:

> "H.Atkinson" <H.Atkinson@lboro.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:dtc1g2$fqk$1@sun-cc204.lut.ac.uk...
> >I have heard that it will still be OK to row as long as the club has access
> >to anti-bacterial wash once people are off the water. However I personally
> >think that the impact could be a lot greater.
> >
> > "Jacko" <amy.jackson@mdc.org.uk> wrote in message
> > news:1140426743.950765.229370@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >> Sorry if this has been done before, but with it looking likely that
> >> bird flu is coming to the UK, what do you reckon the impact will be on
> >> rowing (if any), given the significant amount of contact one usually
> >> has with wild birds on banks and landing stages? Could there be a knee
> >> jerk reaction from any of the authorities? Any ideas? Can they stop
> >> us?
> >>
> Just being pedantic, but isn't flu a virus? anti bacterial handwashes are
> not going to be a great help (not sure what you are meant to wash anyway -
> the rower or the swan?)
>
> Andy
>
>
>


20 Feb 2006 09:51:56
stan
Re: Bird flu and rowing

<Veterinary Pedantry >

Mad Cow= BSE
A prion disease, transmitted by consuming (infected) changed prions,
presumed to have originated in scrapie which was arround for about 20
years before jumping species. Appears related to varient CJD- possible
risk to human health. Also reported cases of prion like disease in
mink.
Government action in UK was to instigated 30month rule where anything
over 30months not allowed to enter food chain. There are various
allergations relating to BSE and it's various misdiagnosis in other
countries eg hypomagnesiaemia or grass staggers but they are all cae
not proven.
Prions are proteins found in the CNS.It is unknown how they are
transfered without being digested this obvious flaw didn't stop Stanley
Prusiner (sp?) becoming a Noble lauriate.

Foot and Mouth:
Picornavirus.
All species of cloven-hoofed animals are susceptible and the disease is
extremely contagious. There are direct losses due to deaths in young
animals, loss of milk, loss of meat and a decrease in productive
performance.
Disease is endemic in large parts of the world.
Uk outbreak was mismanged due to Government image makers and spin
doctors getting in the way of Veterinary plans. Most of the
recommendations from the inquery after the last outbreak were ignored.
In favour of mass culls and attempts to ring fence the disease. The
computer model used by the governments chief scientist (not a vet) was
not appropriate to FMD and I think though would need to check
references that it was actually based on a human disease model.
One case in humans reported in the UK in 1966
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1293094.stm
Movement restrictions though an arse especially for rowing were
necessary.

Bird Flu-
60ish lethal human cases worldwide since 2002, less than a 50%
mortality rate.
I would politely suggest that crossing the road is probably more
dangerous.
However- as we are overdue a 'flu epidemic there is much mass media
Hysteria about it.
Rachels excellent post below covers most of the relevant information.

I felt the need to post this as there has been sooooo much sloppy
reporting of this in the uk media eg:
Describing tamiflu TM (oseltamivir phosphate- antiviral drug) as a
vaccine.
and this
http://www.wddty.co.uk/cms/files/WDDTY162qxd.pdf
is fantastically new age.
I let the always sensible members of RSR to make up their own minds
regarding how they prepare for bird flu rather than descending into a
homeopathy debate.
But please- try to be a bit more accurate when discribing which animal
disease you're describing.

cheers s



20 Feb 2006 09:57:47
stan
Re: Bird flu and rowing

oops typo:
scrapie was around for over 200years prior to first documented case of
BSE



20 Feb 2006 10:17:08
jmh
Re: Bird flu and rowing

Rachel Quarrell wrote:
> Viruses vary vastly. (ooh love the alliteration).
>
> <snip excellent post from Rachel>

> <snip>

If you do happen to see several dead birds together, please get in
touch with Defra to report it (details on www.defra.gov.uk ) and don't
go over to pick them up or take a closer look. Individual dead birds
are less of a worry as H5N1 is very contagious and infectious between
birds so you're likely to see more than just one casualty.

There is an emergency plan in place which will swing into action when
it becomes necessary, but this is a disease which is transmitted by
close contact between human and birds, rather than eing airborne as
with FMD. As long as you maintain good personal hygiene and have a
good hot shower using plenty of soap once you are off the water, you
should not really be at risk. As with anything else, try to avoid
sticking your fingers into your mouth, nose or eyes or drinking from a
water bottle that has been sloshing around in the inch of water in the
bottom of the boat.

If your club is afflicted by quanities of bird sh1t at launching points
do your best to avoid it and if necessary, get a bit medieval about
control measures. Birds are pretty bright and don't like being
regularly shooed away by the business end of a broom and hosepipe. It
is however illegal to get terminal with them unless you have the
correct certification.

Mainly though, don't panic.
Judith



20 Feb 2006 11:23:28
Re: Bird flu and rowing


stan wrote:
> <Veterinary Pedantry>
>
> Mad Cow= BSE
> A prion disease, transmitted by consuming (infected) changed prions,
> presumed to have originated in scrapie which was arround for about 20
> years before jumping species. Appears related to varient CJD- possible
> risk to human health. Also reported cases of prion like disease in
> mink.
> Government action in UK was to instigated 30month rule where anything
> over 30months not allowed to enter food chain. There are various
> allergations relating to BSE and it's various misdiagnosis in other
> countries eg hypomagnesiaemia or grass staggers but they are all cae
> not proven.
> Prions are proteins found in the CNS.It is unknown how they are
> transfered without being digested this obvious flaw didn't stop Stanley
> Prusiner (sp?) becoming a Noble lauriate.
>
> Foot and Mouth:
> Picornavirus.
> All species of cloven-hoofed animals are susceptible and the disease is
> extremely contagious. There are direct losses due to deaths in young
> animals, loss of milk, loss of meat and a decrease in productive
> performance.
> Disease is endemic in large parts of the world.
> Uk outbreak was mismanged due to Government image makers and spin
> doctors getting in the way of Veterinary plans. Most of the
> recommendations from the inquery after the last outbreak were ignored.
> In favour of mass culls and attempts to ring fence the disease. The
> computer model used by the governments chief scientist (not a vet) was
> not appropriate to FMD and I think though would need to check
> references that it was actually based on a human disease model.
> One case in humans reported in the UK in 1966
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1293094.stm
> Movement restrictions though an arse especially for rowing were
> necessary.
>
> Bird Flu-
> 60ish lethal human cases worldwide since 2002, less than a 50%
> mortality rate.
> I would politely suggest that crossing the road is probably more
> dangerous.
> However- as we are overdue a 'flu epidemic there is much mass media
> Hysteria about it.
> Rachels excellent post below covers most of the relevant information.
>
> I felt the need to post this as there has been sooooo much sloppy
> reporting of this in the uk media eg:
> Describing tamiflu TM (oseltamivir phosphate- antiviral drug) as a
> vaccine.
> and this
> http://www.wddty.co.uk/cms/files/WDDTY162qxd.pdf
> is fantastically new age.
> I let the always sensible members of RSR to make up their own minds
> regarding how they prepare for bird flu rather than descending into a
> homeopathy debate.
> But please- try to be a bit more accurate when discribing which animal
> disease you're describing.
>
> cheers s

Were you refering to me Stan? I just said that when it arrives it will
not leave. I did not compare it to other diseases.

I agree with your view on hysteria.