30 Sep 2006 20:59:28
gp
What would YOU do if you were Phil?

Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....

...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
Complete and utter burn-out...

Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.


...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
more than 3 majors...



30 Sep 2006 21:11:36
pete z
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


gp wrote:
> Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
> ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
> ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> more than 3 majors...


If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
giving me the talent
at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
beautiful woman, have
beautiful kids. He'll never be as great as Tiger, and he knows it.
After the first 50 million,
the two majors, guaranteeing his entry in the hall of fame, maybe he's
coasting, but so what?



30 Sep 2006 22:30:12
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


pete z wrote:

> If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
> giving me the talent
> at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
> beautiful woman, have
> beautiful kids.

Ah, yes, the truly important things in life: talent in sports,
acquistion of money and the collection of beautiful things...I don't
think that's God's department, I think you knee down and thank that
other guy



30 Sep 2006 22:44:00
Jack Thompson
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


bungalow_st...@yahoo.com wrote:
> pete z wrote:
>
> > If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
> > giving me the talent
> > at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
> > beautiful woman, have
> > beautiful kids.
>
> Ah, yes, the truly important things in life: talent in sports,
> acquistion of money and the collection of beautiful things...

...OR having a family that you love and being able to support them (and
then some) with a profession you enjoy. Yes, I'd say that's important.

> think that's God's department, I think you knee down and thank that
> other guy

Dave Pelz?



01 Oct 2006 01:55:48
Joe Snow
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


<bungalow_steve@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1159680612.109884.31130@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> pete z wrote:
>
>> If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
>> giving me the talent
>> at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
>> beautiful woman, have
>> beautiful kids.
>
> Ah, yes, the truly important things in life: talent in sports,
> acquistion of money and the collection of beautiful things...I don't
> think that's God's department, I think you knee down and thank that
> other guy
>
WOW - well said!!!




01 Oct 2006 06:08:09
Chris Bellomy
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

If I were Phil, I'd probably hit driver into the grandstands
on the 72nd hole of the US Open... which would require talent
and stupidity that I don't have. Though at least I can aspire
to the stupidity.

--
Chris Bellomy
C-List Charter Member
http://clist.org/


01 Oct 2006 06:30:07
Larry Bud
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


bungalow_steve@yahoo.com wrote:
> pete z wrote:
>
> > If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
> > giving me the talent
> > at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
> > beautiful woman, have
> > beautiful kids.
>
> Ah, yes, the truly important things in life: talent in sports,
> acquistion of money and the collection of beautiful things...I don't
> think that's God's department, I think you knee down and thank that
> other guy

Ridiculous. He didn't kill anybody for it.



01 Oct 2006 10:27:30
Big_Fan
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


Chris Bellomy wrote:
> If I were Phil, I'd probably hit driver into the grandstands
> on the 72nd hole of the US Open... which would require talent
> and stupidity that I don't have. Though at least I can aspire
> to the stupidity.
>
> --
> Chris Bellomy
> C-List Charter Member
> http://clist.org/

That reminds me of something over the years I've thought about. If you
ever wanted to be famous, a name every person would know. Not famous
like Phil or even Tiger.....You're leading the Masters or US Open. All
you have to do is finish to win. You line up your three footer on the
72nd hole, then look at the cameras and the people around the green,
give a few comments about something important (or whatever your soapbox
is), pick up your ball and walk off of the green. You think that
wouldn't be the front page and lead story everywhere?

I certainly wouldn't have the guts to do it in that situation, but some
might.



01 Oct 2006 21:47:24
David
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On 30 Sep 2006 20:59:28 -0700, "gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net > wrote:

>Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
>...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
>Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
>nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
>plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
>Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
>nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
>as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
>Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
>the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
>...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
>been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
>a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
>is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
>instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
>more than 3 majors...

I think that Phil is doing what is right for him and his family. He
has enough money and Winged Foot destroyed him mentally. If I were
Phil, I think that I would seriuosly considering retiring permanently
from the game and enjoy the rest of my life. He has dealt with enough
press-ggod and bad--and has no financial worries for himeslf, or his
family, for the next thousand years.

Some of the greatest in the game retired at their peaks, and Phil
following suit would surely not put any blemishes on what most would
consider to be a great career.

David



01 Oct 2006 14:48:23
annika1980
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


Big_Fan wrote:
> That reminds me of something over the years I've thought about. If you
> ever wanted to be famous, a name every person would know. Not famous
> like Phil or even Tiger.....You're leading the Masters or US Open. All
> you have to do is finish to win. You line up your three footer on the
> 72nd hole, then look at the cameras and the people around the green,
> give a few comments about something important (or whatever your soapbox
> is), pick up your ball and walk off of the green. You think that
> wouldn't be the front page and lead story everywhere?
>
> I certainly wouldn't have the guts to do it in that situation, but some
> might.

Mac O'Grady once said that if he ever had the lead going up #18 at
Augusta they'd remember that one forever. He never did say what he'd
do, however. Perhaps he'd play the hole left-handed (which he could and
still make 5), or maybe streak the fairway or blow his brains out all
over the 18th green.

But wouldn't it be cool one time if Tiger Woods settled over the
winning putt at a Major, then stood back up, looked at the camera and
yelled, "Hey, George Bush .... get us out of IRAQ!"

Maybe this is a way that Phil could make himself look good. Hold a
press conference and announce that he will not ever play the tour again
while US soldiers are dying in Iraq.
Or choose some other cause, like maybe quitting golf until the
Tennessee Titans win a football game .... assuming he could hold out
that long.



01 Oct 2006 18:13:14
Ben Hogan's Ghost
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

If I were Phil I'd tell you to get a life.

The Hawk

"gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net > wrote in message
news:1159675168.797007.278530@c28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
> ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
> ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> more than 3 majors...
>




01 Oct 2006 15:14:55
pete z
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


bungalow_steve@yahoo.com wrote:
> pete z wrote:
>
> > If I were Phil I'd get down on my knees every night and thank God for
> > giving me the talent
> > at playing a game I love, and still make many millions, marry a
> > beautiful woman, have
> > beautiful kids.
>
> Ah, yes, the truly important things in life: talent in sports,
> acquistion of money and the collection of beautiful things...I don't
> think that's God's department, I think you knee down and thank that
> other guy

A great family is a collection of "things". You have a twisted mind.



01 Oct 2006 16:09:57
Big_Fan
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


> Or choose some other cause, like maybe quitting golf until the
> Tennessee Titans win a football game .... assuming he could hold out
> that long.

Yes, it was a good day for the Dallas Cowboys. It countered a bad day
(but not unexpected) for the Boilers.



01 Oct 2006 16:11:48
Big_Fan
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


Ben Hogan's Ghost wrote:
> If I were Phil I'd tell you to get a life.

If I met Phil, I'd tell him to get a life. All this talk about family
and how he knows the important things in life. Every year I see talk
about Phil knowing the three-deep rosters of every NFL team in the
league. I can happily say that I do not know that.



01 Oct 2006 18:26:55
annika1980
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


> If I met Phil, I'd tell him to get a life. All this talk about family
> and how he knows the important things in life. Every year I see talk
> about Phil knowing the three-deep rosters of every NFL team in the
> league. I can happily say that I do not know that.

We don't really know anything about the Mickelsons' life other than the
image they try to project. Trust me, those celebrations on the 18th
green with Amy and the kids are heavily orchestrated. Amy has never met
a television camera she didn't like.
She knows exactly when the camera is going to be on. That's when she
grabs the kids from the nanny and heads out to greet Phil just like the
perfect family. Ever notice the bruises on those yard apes? Something
ain't right there, that's all I'm sayin.



02 Oct 2006 02:05:42
The poster formerly known as C
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

"annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1159752415.814835.134620@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
>
>> If I met Phil, I'd tell him to get a life. All this talk about family
>> and how he knows the important things in life. Every year I see talk
>> about Phil knowing the three-deep rosters of every NFL team in the
>> league. I can happily say that I do not know that.
>
> We don't really know anything about the Mickelsons' life other than the
> image they try to project. Trust me, those celebrations on the 18th
> green with Amy and the kids are heavily orchestrated. Amy has never met
> a television camera she didn't like.
>
> She knows exactly when the camera is going to be on.

Like maybe they'd be on after he, being the last player, makes the final put
to win the tournament? She must be one crafty lady.

>That's when she grabs the kids from the nanny and heads out to greet Phil
>just like the perfect family.

Yep, pretty much perfect.

>Ever notice the bruises on those yard apes?

Nope.

>Something ain't right there, that's all I'm sayin.

She wouldn't pose for you, huh?




01 Oct 2006 19:23:42
annika1980
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan wrote:
>
> >Something ain't right there, that's all I'm sayin.
>
> She wouldn't pose for you, huh?

Not only that, she's so stupid she didn't even know what a MILF was.



01 Oct 2006 19:53:40
Tim
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


gp wrote:
> Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
> ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
> ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> more than 3 majors...

Phil and Tiger both had major disappointments at the U S Open. Tiger
missed the cut in a major for the first time as a pro, and Phil doubled
the 72nd hole to lose.

Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
wounds.

Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
possesses the physical skills.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Tim



01 Oct 2006 23:34:03
pete z
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


Tim wrote:
> gp wrote:
> > Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
> >
> > ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> > Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> > nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> > plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> > Complete and utter burn-out...
> >
> > Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> > nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> > as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> > Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> > the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
> >
> >
> > ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> > been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> > a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> > is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> > instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> > more than 3 majors...
>
> Phil and Tiger both had major disappointments at the U S Open. Tiger
> missed the cut in a major for the first time as a pro, and Phil doubled
> the 72nd hole to lose.
>
> Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
> one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
> Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
> wounds.
>
> Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
> career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
> 2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
> possesses the physical skills.
>
> I hope he proves me wrong.
>
> Tim

Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?



02 Oct 2006 00:17:13
Tim
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


pete z wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > gp wrote:
> > > Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
> > >
> > > ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> > > Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> > > nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> > > plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> > > Complete and utter burn-out...
> > >
> > > Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> > > nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> > > as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> > > Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> > > the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
> > >
> > >
> > > ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> > > been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> > > a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> > > is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> > > instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> > > more than 3 majors...
> >
> > Phil and Tiger both had major disappointments at the U S Open. Tiger
> > missed the cut in a major for the first time as a pro, and Phil doubled
> > the 72nd hole to lose.
> >
> > Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
> > one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
> > Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
> > wounds.
> >
> > Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
> > career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
> > 2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
> > possesses the physical skills.
> >
> > I hope he proves me wrong.
> >
> > Tim
>
> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?

The players I consider truly great are those who rose to the occasion
against the best in the game. In my lifetime, Snead, Hogan, Palmer,
Trevino, Player, Nicklaus, Norman (the unluckiest player to have ever
drawn breath), and Tiger. Mickelson doesn't come close. True, he is a
very good player, and a very successful player. True, he belongs in
the hall of fame. But so far, he hasn't come close to the calibre of
those mentioned above.

I genuinely hope he does in the future. He has the native ability to be
truly great, but, sadly, he has not shown that this year. His
performance since the U S Open is abysmal, and his abandonment of the
remainder of the season doesn't speak well of his competitive spirit.

Tim



02 Oct 2006 00:26:00
Jack Thompson
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


pete z wrote:

>
> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors,

Three.



02 Oct 2006 08:47:05
The poster formerly known as C
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

"Tim" <delaney.timothy@comcast.net > wrote in message
news:1159773433.496185.287980@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
>> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
>> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
>> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
>> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?
>
> The players I consider truly great are those who rose to the occasion
> against the best in the game. In my lifetime, Snead, Hogan, Palmer,
> Trevino, Player, Nicklaus, Norman (the unluckiest player to have ever
> drawn breath), and Tiger. Mickelson doesn't come close.

He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was red
hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to win
it.




02 Oct 2006 02:20:16
Tim
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan wrote:
> "Tim" <delaney.timothy@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1159773433.496185.287980@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
> >> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
> >> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
> >> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
> >> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?
> >
> > The players I consider truly great are those who rose to the occasion
> > against the best in the game. In my lifetime, Snead, Hogan, Palmer,
> > Trevino, Player, Nicklaus, Norman (the unluckiest player to have ever
> > drawn breath), and Tiger. Mickelson doesn't come close.
>
> He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was red
> hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to win
> it.

Nine holes -- or even one tournament -- doesn't make a player great. I
don't question Phil's ability; I question his competitive fire. A
single bad hole has ruined the last half of the 2006 season for him,
and for his fans. He has just given up -- not the sign of a really
great player.

Nicklaus had a phenomenal number of runner-up finishes in majors. For
him, all of these were losses, but he never lost his desire to win.
Phil had a fine 71 holes at the U S Open, and let one bad swing spoil
what could have been a great season.

Phil Mickelson has the swing of a great player, but not the mental
toughness. And that's what separates him from Snead, Hogan, Palmer,
etc.

Tim



02 Oct 2006 05:01:28
Big_Fan
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


pete z wrote:
> Tim wrote:
> > gp wrote:
> > > Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
> > >
> > > ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> > > Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> > > nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> > > plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> > > Complete and utter burn-out...
> > >
> > > Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> > > nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> > > as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> > > Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> > > the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
> > >
> > >
> > > ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> > > been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> > > a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> > > is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> > > instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> > > more than 3 majors...
> >
> > Phil and Tiger both had major disappointments at the U S Open. Tiger
> > missed the cut in a major for the first time as a pro, and Phil doubled
> > the 72nd hole to lose.
> >
> > Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
> > one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
> > Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
> > wounds.
> >
> > Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
> > career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
> > 2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
> > possesses the physical skills.
> >
> > I hope he proves me wrong.
> >
> > Tim
>
> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?

There's a diference between being a HOF player and being great. Tiger,
Jack, Ben, Bobby, Harry, for example, are great. Phil will never be
considered one of the greatest players of all time.



02 Oct 2006 05:13:32
Simon
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


gp wrote:

> Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
> ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
> Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
> nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
> plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
> Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
> nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
> as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
> Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
> the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
> ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
> been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
> a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
> is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
> instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
> more than 3 majors...

Do you think Tiger has made it easier for the other players to settle
for a comfortable life and not strive to be the very best? Would it
make a difference to the approach of Phil (and others) if they knew
they really had a chance to be no 1, the best player of their
generation and dominate the game for years? With Tiger around, they are
just battling for 2nd place.



02 Oct 2006 08:46:25
John van der Pflum
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On 30 Sep 2006 20:59:28 -0700, "gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net > wrote:

>Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>
>...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
>Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now, his
>nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying to
>plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
>Complete and utter burn-out...
>
> Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
>nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
>as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
>Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
>the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>
>
>...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al have
>been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone with
>a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy who
>is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
>instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've won
>more than 3 majors...

I'd probably play an event or two through the end of the year and do a
lot of staying home with my kids.
--

jvdp
Myke Plough-in-skee is not mentioned in this thread.
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com/files/OH_2006_make_a_putt.avi
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com


02 Oct 2006 08:48:04
John van der Pflum
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On 1 Oct 2006 14:48:23 -0700, "annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com > wrote:

>
>Big_Fan wrote:
>> That reminds me of something over the years I've thought about. If you
>> ever wanted to be famous, a name every person would know. Not famous
>> like Phil or even Tiger.....You're leading the Masters or US Open. All
>> you have to do is finish to win. You line up your three footer on the
>> 72nd hole, then look at the cameras and the people around the green,
>> give a few comments about something important (or whatever your soapbox
>> is), pick up your ball and walk off of the green. You think that
>> wouldn't be the front page and lead story everywhere?
>>
>> I certainly wouldn't have the guts to do it in that situation, but some
>> might.
>
>Mac O'Grady once said that if he ever had the lead going up #18 at
>Augusta they'd remember that one forever. He never did say what he'd
>do, however. Perhaps he'd play the hole left-handed (which he could and
>still make 5), or maybe streak the fairway or blow his brains out all
>over the 18th green.
>
>But wouldn't it be cool one time if Tiger Woods settled over the
>winning putt at a Major, then stood back up, looked at the camera and
>yelled, "Hey, George Bush .... get us out of IRAQ!"
>
>Maybe this is a way that Phil could make himself look good. Hold a
>press conference and announce that he will not ever play the tour again
>while US soldiers are dying in Iraq.
>Or choose some other cause, like maybe quitting golf until the
>Tennessee Titans win a football game .... assuming he could hold out
>that long.

I hear David Shula and Bruce Coslet are looking at applying for Jeff
Fisher's job.
--

jvdp
Myke Plough-in-skee is not mentioned in this thread.
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com/files/OH_2006_make_a_putt.avi
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com


02 Oct 2006 13:53:54
MichaelJP
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

"The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan" <nospam@nospam.net > wrote in
message news:dm4Ug.16862$DU3.9567@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> "Tim" <delaney.timothy@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:1159773433.496185.287980@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
>>> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
>>> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
>>> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
>>> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?
>>
>> The players I consider truly great are those who rose to the occasion
>> against the best in the game. In my lifetime, Snead, Hogan, Palmer,
>> Trevino, Player, Nicklaus, Norman (the unluckiest player to have ever
>> drawn breath), and Tiger. Mickelson doesn't come close.
>
> He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was red
> hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to win
> it.

What was Mickelson on that afternoon in Georgia? Smiling, relaxed, playing
brilliantly... a shame he can't summon up that mental state more often...




02 Oct 2006 13:00:00
Howard Brazee
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On 1 Oct 2006 19:53:40 -0700, "Tim" <delaney.timothy@comcast.net >
wrote:

>Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
>one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
>Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
>wounds.

They have different motivations. Tiger works best under pressure,
Phil works best when he's happy.

>Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
>career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
>2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
>possesses the physical skills.

For various values of "great".


02 Oct 2006 13:01:25
The poster formerly known as C
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

"Big_Fan" <bigpufan@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1159790488.574012.123800@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> pete z wrote:
>> Tim wrote:
>> > gp wrote:
>> > > Getting back to Phil and his decision to "put his family first".....
>> > >
>> > > ...here's my theory. Phil's NOT a pussy, per se, and not afraid of
>> > > Tiger, but I think his game is going through rough times right now,
>> > > his
>> > > nervous system was severely damaged at Wing Foot, he kept on trying
>> > > to
>> > > plug away at the last 2 majors only to come up short.... the result??
>> > > Complete and utter burn-out...
>> > >
>> > > Phil does not want to face El Tigre head-on given the state of his
>> > > nerves and the state of his game. If Phil had the same form and game
>> > > as he did back in April, I'm POSITIVE he'd be going to the Grand
>> > > Slam.....Phil is burned out, and will probably come back next year to
>> > > the Bob Hope recharged and re-energized.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ...as far as him putting his family first. As Johnny Miller et al
>> > > have
>> > > been saying about American golf and the modern PGA Tour, everyone
>> > > with
>> > > a decent career makes MILLIONS, and Phil seems like the kind of guy
>> > > who
>> > > is happy with HIS millions and would rather have a happy family life
>> > > instead of having his name up there with the all time greats who've
>> > > won
>> > > more than 3 majors...
>> >
>> > Phil and Tiger both had major disappointments at the U S Open. Tiger
>> > missed the cut in a major for the first time as a pro, and Phil doubled
>> > the 72nd hole to lose.
>> >
>> > Tiger got pissed at his poor play, and answered the call by putting on
>> > one of the most amazing winning streaks in the history of the game.
>> > Phil simply fell apart, and then ran away from it all to lick his
>> > wounds.
>> >
>> > Phil has had, and will no doubt continue to have, a very successful
>> > career: Better than most. (Where have I heard that phrase?) But Phil's
>> > 2006 season tells me that he will never be truly great, even though he
>> > possesses the physical skills.
>> >
>> > I hope he proves me wrong.
>> >
>> > Tim
>>
>> Phil will never be truly great? He has won 2 majors, 29 tournaments.
>> 39 million career earninings. Currently ranked 2nd in the world. Tom
>> Kite won 1 major, 15 tournaments, and is in the hall of fame. I think
>> Phil will be in the hall of fame. What do you consider being truly
>> great? He won 2 this year. How many have won 2, except Tiger?
>
> There's a diference between being a HOF player and being great. Tiger,
> Jack, Ben, Bobby, Harry, for example, are great. Phil will never be
> considered one of the greatest players of all time.

He may win another 3 majors before his career is over. Or maybe even more.
It'd be hard to say he wasn't one of the greats if he finished his career
with, say, 45 wins and 6 majors. I don't know if he will do that, but if he
does, it'd put him in the GREAT category (IMO of course).




02 Oct 2006 08:37:45
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


MichaelJP wrote:
> "The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote

> > He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was red
> > hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to win
> > it.
>
> What was Mickelson on that afternoon in Georgia? Smiling, relaxed, playing
> brilliantly... a shame he can't summon up that mental state more often...

Yeah, maybe all he really needs is to be paired with his best
friend for the last 18 holes in a major championship so
the pressure can be relieved.

Phil Mickelson is a great athlete.

But if there is one thing American sports fans view as
a character flaw, it is choking when the pressure is greatest.

Phil is the most renowned choker in the history of golf, even
worse than Bobby Clampett at the British Open in 82,

All he has to do to erase that image is go head to head with
Tiger Woods over the last nine in a major, and win. Suppose
Phil and Tiger are tied with 9 holes left to play, and the title
is between Phil and Tiger. Anyone want to lay odds?

I bet Tiger wins 9 times out of 10, at least.

-PA



02 Oct 2006 12:46:23
John van der Pflum
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On 2 Oct 2006 08:37:45 -0700, blakestah@gmail.com wrote:

>
>MichaelJP wrote:
>> "The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote
>
>> > He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was red
>> > hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to win
>> > it.
>>
>> What was Mickelson on that afternoon in Georgia? Smiling, relaxed, playing
>> brilliantly... a shame he can't summon up that mental state more often...
>
>Yeah, maybe all he really needs is to be paired with his best
>friend for the last 18 holes in a major championship so
>the pressure can be relieved.
>
>Phil Mickelson is a great athlete.
>
>But if there is one thing American sports fans view as
>a character flaw, it is choking when the pressure is greatest.
>
>Phil is the most renowned choker in the history of golf, even
>worse than Bobby Clampett at the British Open in 82,

I don't know about that. Jean Van De Velde is right up there too.
Though, I suppose Phil's is more ugly because of his past victories
and was supposedly able to handle the pressure. Van De Velde was on a
stage he'd never seen before.

>
>All he has to do to erase that image is go head to head with
>Tiger Woods over the last nine in a major, and win. Suppose
>Phil and Tiger are tied with 9 holes left to play, and the title
>is between Phil and Tiger. Anyone want to lay odds?
>
>I bet Tiger wins 9 times out of 10, at least.

I'd have to agree. Tiger just knows how to close the deal.

--

jvdp
Myke Plough-in-skee is not mentioned in this thread.
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com/files/OH_2006_make_a_putt.avi
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com


02 Oct 2006 09:07:26
FredK
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


"David" <dgold1958@yahoo.de > wrote in message
news:kk60i2huvjqjubttn106fed19m6pbdfips@4ax.com...
> On 30 Sep 2006 20:59:28 -0700, "gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>

>
> I think that Phil is doing what is right for him and his family. He
> has enough money and Winged Foot destroyed him mentally. If I were
> Phil, I think that I would seriuosly considering retiring permanently
> from the game and enjoy the rest of my life. He has dealt with enough
> press-ggod and bad--and has no financial worries for himeslf, or his
> family, for the next thousand years.
>
> Some of the greatest in the game retired at their peaks, and Phil
> following suit would surely not put any blemishes on what most would
> consider to be a great career.
>

On the 72nd hole of the US Open, Phil was poised to finally achieve
"greatness". Instead he stumbled again, like he has in the past. Then
Tiger caught fire once again. Now instead of this being the year Phil broke
out of the pack, while Tiger continued to fade - Phil is another footnote in
another breakout year for Tiger. Another year, the same old story. Even
during Tigers "slump" it was Vijay who stepped it up a notch to overshadow
Phil.

I agree that Phil is completely demoralized. His withdrawal is less to do
with more family time, and more to do with licking wounds. In fact, I agree
that at this point he may well be thinking of retiring from golf. He
doesn't need the money. But his chances of ever being considered one of the
"greats" of the game have dwindled. What's left for him to achieve in golf?
Strive to become Tigers "Watson"? I don't think being a footnote to Tiger
when the history books are written is something that he can deal with. He
was "supposed" to achieve greatness.

The question is - will 3 or 4 months off recharge him with the feeling that
he still *can* emerge and go toe-to-toe with Tiger and win for a sustained
time? Or has his spirit been completely crushed? Especially with the
rekindled dominance of Tiger since the Open.






02 Oct 2006 20:24:34
rich
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


"FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com > wrote in message
news:45210f0f@usenet01.boi.hp.com...

>What's left for him to achieve in golf?
> Strive to become Tigers "Watson"? I don't think being a footnote to Tiger
> when the history books are written is something that he can deal with. He
> was "supposed" to achieve greatness.

I hope you mean Watson in the sense of Sherlock Holmes. Or Alexander Graham
Bell. Cause I've watched Tom Watson. I've cheered for Tom Watson. And
Phil is no Tom Watson and never will be.

Rich




02 Oct 2006 15:56:59
Jack Thompson
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


John van der Pflum wrote:
> On 2 Oct 2006 08:37:45 -0700, blakestah@gmail.com wrote:
>

> >
> >Phil is the most renowned choker in the history of golf, even
> >worse than Bobby Clampett at the British Open in 82,
>
> I don't know about that. Jean Van De Velde is right up there too.
> Though, I suppose Phil's is more ugly because of his past victories
> and was supposedly able to handle the pressure. Van De Velde was on a
> stage he'd never seen before.
>

What he did goes beyond choking. Need another word for it.

Being French, perhaps Jerry Lewis took over his body for that last hole.



03 Oct 2006 00:49:33
Howard Brazee
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:07:26 -0400, "FredK"
<fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com > wrote:

>I agree that Phil is completely demoralized. His withdrawal is less to do
>with more family time, and more to do with licking wounds. In fact, I agree
>that at this point he may well be thinking of retiring from golf. He
>doesn't need the money. But his chances of ever being considered one of the
>"greats" of the game have dwindled. What's left for him to achieve in golf?

Most stars have a hard time giving up the spotlight. And Phil loves
the spotlight.


03 Oct 2006 01:59:49
The poster formerly known as C
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

<blakestah@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1159803465.334337.136440@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> MichaelJP wrote:
>> "The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote
>
>> > He rose to the occasion when he won the masters 2 years ago. Els was
>> > red
>> > hot and Phil's back 9 at Augusta was magnificent including the put to
>> > win
>> > it.
>>
>> What was Mickelson on that afternoon in Georgia? Smiling, relaxed,
>> playing
>> brilliantly... a shame he can't summon up that mental state more often...
>
> Yeah, maybe all he really needs is to be paired with his best
> friend for the last 18 holes in a major championship so
> the pressure can be relieved.
>
> Phil Mickelson is a great athlete.
>
> But if there is one thing American sports fans view as
> a character flaw, it is choking when the pressure is greatest.
>
> Phil is the most renowned choker in the history of golf, even
> worse than Bobby Clampett at the British Open in 82,
>
> All he has to do to erase that image is go head to head with
> Tiger Woods over the last nine in a major, and win. Suppose
> Phil and Tiger are tied with 9 holes left to play, and the title
> is between Phil and Tiger. Anyone want to lay odds?
>
> I bet Tiger wins 9 times out of 10, at least.
>
> -PA


Phil badly misplayed the 18th, but I cannot say that pressure was what
caused it. He stuck with driver and that was a bad decision. He did not
have control of that club all day, only hitting 2 fairways. Yet it did not
seem to be pressure that made him miss the other 12 fairways as he
constantly got up-and-down. So missing 18, IMHO, was not pressure, but it
was a bad choice to once again go with driver when he needed to get in the
fairway.

As far as the rest of the season, who know? Maybe he played poorly because
he was demoralize or perhaps it was vice-versa.




02 Oct 2006 22:27:32
sjh
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


The poster formerly known as Colleyville Alan wrote:
> Phil badly misplayed the 18th, but I cannot say that pressure was what
> caused it. He stuck with driver and that was a bad decision. He did not
> have control of that club all day, only hitting 2 fairways.

I may be out of my depth here, but I think the 2nd shot was the
mistake. If I had to guess, I would think that a pro golfer knows how
the hole sets up for him and will use the club that he used on
Saturday, Friday, ...., the last time the Championship was there etc.
Even I don't think that negative, and those guys are 2000 "Rotella"
light years ahead of club golfers. I think he made a physical error
off the tee, and a huge mental error on the 2nd shot. If he punched
out, he might have gotten up and down or at least forced a playoff.



02 Oct 2006 17:14:13
FredK
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


"rich" <dummy@nothere.com > wrote in message
news:6AeUg.23247$gF3.16668@trnddc02...
>
> "FredK" <fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com> wrote in message
> news:45210f0f@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> >What's left for him to achieve in golf?
> > Strive to become Tigers "Watson"? I don't think being a footnote to
Tiger
> > when the history books are written is something that he can deal with.
He
> > was "supposed" to achieve greatness.
>
> I hope you mean Watson in the sense of Sherlock Holmes. Or Alexander
Graham
> Bell. Cause I've watched Tom Watson. I've cheered for Tom Watson. And
> Phil is no Tom Watson and never will be.

No, he isn't. But that was the Watson I meant. Tom Watson is forever
doomed to be a Nicklaus footnote. You won't read golf histories where there
is list of "greats" where Tom's name stands alone - because he was
overshadowed by Jack. He'll always be known as one of Jacks "great rivals".
In 2050, he will be virtually unknown. He is known today because there are
still many people alive that remember the era.

Phil isn't quite at the level of Watson... and my point is - that's about as
good as it will ever get for Phil in the history book. To eventually work
his way *up* to being considered the "main" rival to the "great" Tiger
Woods. On the other hand, in 2050 everybody will still know Tigers name -
and some 12 year old girl will be trying to break his records.





03 Oct 2006 00:38:05
Jack Thompson
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?


Simon wrote:

>
> Do you think Tiger has made it easier for the other players to settle
> for a comfortable life and not strive to be the very best? Would it
> make a difference to the approach of Phil (and others) if they knew
> they really had a chance to be no 1, the best player of their
> generation and dominate the game for years? With Tiger around, they are
> just battling for 2nd place.

Phil was never going to be the best player of his generation. But if he
pars 18, he certainly had a good argument for being #1 at that moment
with three straight majors. And especially with Tiger missing the cut.
Although I'm guessing Tiger still would've held the official #1
ranking.

But even if he did par, Tiger would've come back stronger than ever in
the British and PGA and erase any doubts on who was the best. Even with
that momentum that Phil potentially had, pair them up over the weekend
and all of Phil's major preparation goes out the window.



03 Oct 2006 11:29:56
David
Re: What would YOU do if you were Phil?

On Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:07:26 -0400, "FredK"
<fred.nospam@nospam.dec.com > wrote:

>
>"David" <dgold1958@yahoo.de> wrote in message
>news:kk60i2huvjqjubttn106fed19m6pbdfips@4ax.com...
>> On 30 Sep 2006 20:59:28 -0700, "gp" <gopher70@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> I think that Phil is doing what is right for him and his family. He
>> has enough money and Winged Foot destroyed him mentally. If I were
>> Phil, I think that I would seriuosly considering retiring permanently
>> from the game and enjoy the rest of my life. He has dealt with enough
>> press-ggod and bad--and has no financial worries for himeslf, or his
>> family, for the next thousand years.
>>
>> Some of the greatest in the game retired at their peaks, and Phil
>> following suit would surely not put any blemishes on what most would
>> consider to be a great career.
>>
>
>On the 72nd hole of the US Open, Phil was poised to finally achieve
>"greatness". Instead he stumbled again, like he has in the past. Then
>Tiger caught fire once again. Now instead of this being the year Phil broke
>out of the pack, while Tiger continued to fade - Phil is another footnote in
>another breakout year for Tiger. Another year, the same old story. Even
>during Tigers "slump" it was Vijay who stepped it up a notch to overshadow
>Phil.
>
>I agree that Phil is completely demoralized. His withdrawal is less to do
>with more family time, and more to do with licking wounds. In fact, I agree
>that at this point he may well be thinking of retiring from golf. He
>doesn't need the money. But his chances of ever being considered one of the
>"greats" of the game have dwindled. What's left for him to achieve in golf?
>Strive to become Tigers "Watson"? I don't think being a footnote to Tiger
>when the history books are written is something that he can deal with. He
>was "supposed" to achieve greatness.

Phil is #18 on the list for tour victories and has three majors to
his credit--he could have probably had 10, if he palyed with his head.
To me, that qualifies as a great career. If he were to keep playing,
he could conceivably crack the top ten. He would only need ten more
victories and he still has a lot of golfing years ahead of him.

>The question is - will 3 or 4 months off recharge him with the feeling that
>he still *can* emerge and go toe-to-toe with Tiger and win for a sustained
>time? Or has his spirit been completely crushed? Especially with the
>rekindled dominance of Tiger since the Open.

Personally, I think his spirit has been crushed. Also, I cannot
imagine that he has any desire to play the champion's tour, so,
quitting now would be a great move on his part.

I believe that he really does want to spend the time with his
family. He deserves it and his family does, as well. It is possible
that the break will do him good, but he will not know until he gets
out and plays next year.

David