30 Dec 2005 10:09:43
s_knight8
Walker wearing out welcome

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051230&Category=SPORTS0
403&ArtNo=512300437&SectionCat=&Template=printart
notebook
Walker wearing out welcome
December 30, 2005

One of the dozens of rumors involving Pacers forward Ron Artest is a trade
to Miami for Antoine Walker. It's unlikely because the Pacers wouldn't
want Walker's long-term contract, but from all the booing going on at the
Heat's home games, it sounds like Miami's fans would approve such a deal.
Walker was booed Tuesday while hitting 2-of-10 shots and committing four
turnovers against Milwaukee, and was cheered when he was sent to the bench
for Udonis Haslem. Walker had no reaction to the fan reaction.
"I'm going to be here until (coach and team president Pat Riley) decides
to move me, so you're going to have deal with me," he said. "But trying to
boo me or stuff like that, that doesn't bother me. I played in Boston, so
I've seen the worst." First year is the toughest





30 Dec 2005 10:52:32
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


s_knight8 wrote:
> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051230&Category=SPORTS0
> 403&ArtNo=512300437&SectionCat=&Template=printart
> notebook
> Walker wearing out welcome
> December 30, 2005
>
> One of the dozens of rumors involving Pacers forward Ron Artest is a trade
> to Miami for Antoine Walker. It's unlikely because the Pacers wouldn't
> want Walker's long-term contract, but from all the booing going on at the
> Heat's home games, it sounds like Miami's fans would approve such a deal.
> Walker was booed Tuesday while hitting 2-of-10 shots and committing four
> turnovers against Milwaukee, and was cheered when he was sent to the bench
> for Udonis Haslem. Walker had no reaction to the fan reaction.
> "I'm going to be here until (coach and team president Pat Riley) decides
> to move me, so you're going to have deal with me," he said. "But trying to
> boo me or stuff like that, that doesn't bother me. I played in Boston, so
> I've seen the worst." First year is the toughest

Miami fans must be smarter than Boston fans...there were guys here who
wanted to see the Celtics *re-sign* this joker after last season.

And 'I played in Boston, so I've seen the worst'? Fuck you AW...you
got a lot more love here than you deserved. If I had been in charge
you would have been buried UNDER the Fleet, or the Shawmut, or the TD
North, or whatever the hell its called this week (memo - I absolutely
and positively REFUSE to attach the word 'Garden' to this building.
Never. Its never going to happen. Not with any qualifier, like a
corporate name, or the word 'new' or anything. In fact, if they
planted a rose garden in front...I would call it a rose grouping, or a
rose gathering place, just to avoid using the word Garden in
conjunction with this place.)

(One more side rant...may I just be thankful that the 'Jungle', which
was used a couple of years ago in the playoffs, never caught on. The
cheerleaders, Lucky, the Jumbotron, all of these knocked off about 10
years from my life, if they had succeeded in calling the building the
'Jungle'...which may be the worst attempt at marketing EVER...I think I
would have died right there on the spot)



30 Dec 2005 13:52:24
Robert Chin
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:dp3ijn$oeb@dispatch.concentric.net...
> http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051230&Category=SPORTS0
> 403&ArtNo=512300437&SectionCat=&Template=printart
> notebook
> Walker wearing out welcome
> December 30, 2005
>
> One of the dozens of rumors involving Pacers forward Ron Artest is a trade
> to Miami for Antoine Walker. It's unlikely because the Pacers wouldn't
> want Walker's long-term contract, but from all the booing going on at the
> Heat's home games, it sounds like Miami's fans would approve such a deal.
> Walker was booed Tuesday while hitting 2-of-10 shots and committing four
> turnovers against Milwaukee, and was cheered when he was sent to the bench
> for Udonis Haslem. Walker had no reaction to the fan reaction.
> "I'm going to be here until (coach and team president Pat Riley) decides
> to move me, so you're going to have deal with me," he said. "But trying to
> boo me or stuff like that, that doesn't bother me. I played in Boston, so
> I've seen the worst." First year is the toughest

After seeing what has happened to Walker in his NBA travels, you have to
wonder if the same fate awaits Pierce. I honestly don't think it would be
that bad for Pierce. While he did have some "skills", Walker was vastly
overrated as a player. Worst of all, he just didn't "get it".

Pierce can do two things very well. He can shoot and he can rebound. There
will be a place for a guy like him in the league, but because he has that
huge contract, that place is stuck here in boston until Danny can unload
him.




30 Dec 2005 16:47:49
Robert Chin
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"smacdo" <not_your_grandfathers_email@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1135968752.402247.303800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Miami fans must be smarter than Boston fans...there were guys here who
> wanted to see the Celtics *re-sign* this joker after last season.

Yeah, but there are dummies in every city... Boston is no different.

> And 'I played in Boston, so I've seen the worst'? Fuck you AW...you
> got a lot more love here than you deserved.

It's always been about him. Just like PP is all about PP and not the C's.

> If I had been in charge
> you would have been buried UNDER the Fleet, or the Shawmut, or the TD
> North, or whatever the hell its called this week (memo - I absolutely
> and positively REFUSE to attach the word 'Garden' to this building.
> Never. Its never going to happen. Not with any qualifier, like a
> corporate name, or the word 'new' or anything. In fact, if they
> planted a rose garden in front...I would call it a rose grouping, or a
> rose gathering place, just to avoid using the word Garden in
> conjunction with this place.)

Who can we thank for that? Gaston? He bascially ran the franchise into the
ground. If I have anyone complaint about the new owners, it's that they
didn't go out and find or build a new home for the C's to play in. They
should be borrowing ideas from the Robert Kraft or the Indiana Pacers if
they want to maximize their income. As long as they play in Jacobs
building, they are going to be hosed.

> (One more side rant...may I just be thankful that the 'Jungle', which
> was used a couple of years ago in the playoffs, never caught on. The
> cheerleaders, Lucky, the Jumbotron, all of these knocked off about 10
> years from my life, if they had succeeded in calling the building the
> 'Jungle'...which may be the worst attempt at marketing EVER...I think I
> would have died right there on the spot)

Amen. That was stupid. Seems like the marketing department for the C's is
overrun by a bunch of...*GASP*... marketing types who think every idea they
have is a good one. Wouldn't need a marketing department if the "product"
is right.




31 Dec 2005 00:18:24
Bucky
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

> Walker wearing out welcome

I'm surprised it took this long. I couldn't understand why the Heat
would want Walker.



01 Jan 2006 19:23:32
Jack Dotson
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


"Bucky" <uw_badgers@email.com > wrote in message
news:1136017104.312883.222400@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Walker wearing out welcome
>
> I'm surprised it took this long. I couldn't understand why the Heat
> would want Walker.

I got to see Walker for the first time with the Heat when they played the
Piston's last week. Game was close, maybe even tied, with a couple of
minutes left. Walker had a turn over on three straight possessions. Once
he made a bad pass that was stolen, the other two he tried to drive into
heavy traffic and got his shot blocked. All three resulted in points at the
other end and this is the point where the Piston's blew the game wide open.

Anyone else notice this? I was just so thankful he wasn't still doing this
to the Celtics, but I also had to wonder how long Riley would put up with
it. He did play decent defense, but it just seems like he always makes a
mistake at the most crucial point of the game.

I wont go back into my rant about Pierce. I'm trusting the Danny is fully
aware and is show casing him for a block buster trade.




02 Jan 2006 08:23:05
Chris
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

Jack Dotson wrote:

> Anyone else notice this? I was just so thankful he wasn't still doing this
> to the Celtics

I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
combined before he got there and this year after he left?

It's much better without him, right?



02 Jan 2006 19:01:46
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
>
> I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
> combined before he got there and this year after he left?
>
> It's much better without him, right?

Ah yes...Tifer chimes in. Unfortunately, I had yesterday in the
pool...so I guess I lose, and you show some restraint I didn't think
you were capable of.

PS - perhaps you could talk about why Walker, who is sooooooo good,
keeps getting shipped around from team to team. Winning teams, losing
teams, it doesn't matter...no one wants him for more than a year or
so...then he is on the move.



02 Jan 2006 22:19:24
Robert Chin
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"Chris" <chris.tifer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136218985.673305.223560@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Jack Dotson wrote:
>
>> Anyone else notice this? I was just so thankful he wasn't still doing
>> this
>> to the Celtics
>
> I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
> combined before he got there and this year after he left?
>
> It's much better without him, right?

What was the C's record with Walker from 1996-2003? Any idea?

Try 234-308. That's why we're happy he's gone.




02 Jan 2006 20:43:57
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Robert Chin wrote:
>
> What was the C's record with Walker from 1996-2003? Any idea?
>
> Try 234-308. That's why we're happy he's gone.

Dont forget that previous to his leaving the first time...

His FG% went down 3 straight years (including his last two at sub-40%)
His 3P% went down 2 straight years
His FT% went down to 61% in his last year
His FTA went down 3 straight years
His 3PA per year were about double what they were in his first three
years (per year).
His RPG went down 2 straight years
His APG went down 2 straight years
His Steals/game went down 2 straight years
His Blocks/game went down 2 straight years
His TO were up in his last year, and were over 3 a game for his last 4
years
His PPG went down 2 straight years
His total offensive rebounds went down 3 straight years
His offensive rebounds per game went down EVERY year of his career

And Tifer, before you start with your crap about him being a leader in
the playoffs...take a look at his playoff numbers vs. his career
averages. They are *remarkably* similar in every single statistical
category.



03 Jan 2006 00:01:50
Robert Chin
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"smacdo" <not_your_grandfathers_email@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136263437.201649.64000@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> And Tifer, before you start with your crap about him being a leader in
> the playoffs...take a look at his playoff numbers vs. his career
> averages. They are *remarkably* similar in every single statistical
> category.

Walker's crappy play led the C's out of the playoffs last May.




03 Jan 2006 19:03:29
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
>
> I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
> combined before he got there and this year after he left?
>
> It's much better without him, right?

Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.



05 Jan 2006 15:55:24
Skeptic
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


"smacdo" <not_your_grandfathers_email@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136343809.183276.256130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chris wrote:
>>
>> I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
>> combined before he got there and this year after he left?
>>
>> It's much better without him, right?
>
> Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
> have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.

Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question is
this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but he's
a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
better..... lol.....




05 Jan 2006 08:08:28
Chris
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


smacdo wrote:

> Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
> have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.

Hmmm, is this 2 posts where you mention me and responding? Get a new
schtick.



05 Jan 2006 08:09:20
Chris
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

> Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question is
> this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but he's
> a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
> better..... lol.....

Do records lie? All these years of getting better talent and where are
the C's? 13-18?

Where were they BEFORE the great talent acquisitions?



05 Jan 2006 08:34:06
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
> smacdo wrote:
>
> > Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
> > have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.
>
> Hmmm, is this 2 posts where you mention me and responding? Get a new
> schtick.

I didn't think you would have an answer to all that Walker bashing.
Face it, friend...you were wrong about Antoine. Hey, it happens...



05 Jan 2006 08:36:23
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

Chris wrote:
> > Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question is
> > this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but he's
> > a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
> > better..... lol.....
>
> Do records lie? All these years of getting better talent and where are
> the C's? 13-18?
>
> Where were they BEFORE the great talent acquisitions?

C'mon Tif...you are smarter than this. If this is all you have as a
retort...then I guess we can finally lay the issue to rest...because
you are all out of good, solid arguments.

PS - you were asked a question earlier regarding the Celtics record
overall with Walker...since you want to talk about records...



05 Jan 2006 11:52:35
Robert Chin
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"Chris" <chris.tifer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136477360.768812.75210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question
>> is
>> this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but
>> he's
>> a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
>> better..... lol.....
>
> Do records lie? All these years of getting better talent and where are
> the C's? 13-18?
>
> Where were they BEFORE the great talent acquisitions?

In the Walker Years, from 1996 - 2003, the C's were 234-308. Thanks to his
impact, the C's were 15-67 in the Great Walker's first season. How funny,
in 2003-2004, during Walker's first season away from the C's, they were 36 -
46. Not quite 15 - 67 is it? It's funny, but he C's didn't break .500
until season 5 of the Walker years. Somehome, I don't think that the
CURRENT group of Celtics will have to wait THAT long to break .500.

Why don't you go away until the next 542 games have been played and then
we'll compare.




05 Jan 2006 22:23:45
Skeptic
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


"Chris" <chris.tifer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136477360.768812.75210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question
>> is
>> this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but
>> he's
>> a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
>> better..... lol.....
>
> Do records lie? All these years of getting better talent and where are
> the C's? 13-18?
>
> Where were they BEFORE the great talent acquisitions?

When? Their record has been all over the place during Walker's time here.
Records do not lie... we went from a terrible team (Walker's first few
years) to a mediocre one. That's where we still are, unfortunately. Do you
think Walker is hardly playing down in Miami because Riley finds him to be a
great attribute? Open your eyes.




05 Jan 2006 23:00:50
Cole Younger
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"Chris" <chris.tifer@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136477308.498009.72190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> smacdo wrote:
>
>> Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
>> have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.
>
> Hmmm, is this 2 posts where you mention me and responding? Get a new
> schtick.

All your grammar are belong to us.





05 Jan 2006 23:00:53
Cole Younger
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

"smacdo" <not_your_grandfathers_email@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136478983.379941.314500@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Chris wrote:
>> > Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question
>> > is
>> > this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but
>> > he's
>> > a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
>> > better..... lol.....
>>
>> Do records lie? All these years of getting better talent and where are
>> the C's? 13-18?
>>
>> Where were they BEFORE the great talent acquisitions?
>
> C'mon Tif...you are smarter than this.

By now, there's some doubt about that.




06 Jan 2006 17:55:12
Granville Waiters' Ghost
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

In article <Ljbvf.466846$084.452831@attbi_s22 >,
"Skeptic" <bcs002b@yahoo.com > wrote:

> Walker was booed in Boston, Dallas, and now in Miami. My only question is
> this - was he actually in Atlanta long enough to be booed? Yeah, but he's
> a quality player and clearly the kind of player that makes a team team
> better..... lol.....


They don't have enough fans in Atlanta to make an audible boo. It's
just kind of disgruntled murmur.


06 Jan 2006 11:38:53
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
> smacdo wrote:
>
> > Well, day one passes with no answer from Tifer...gee...who knew? I
> > have 7 days in the NG pool...c'mon Tif...don't let me down.
>
> Hmmm, is this 2 posts where you mention me and responding? Get a new
> schtick.

Still no reply about Walker, Tif? Geez...for someone who is so sure
that he is a *great* NBA player...surely it can't be taking you this
long to come up with some type of argument...

I think that we are seeing Tif (quietly) admit he is wrong. This is a
big day for you buddy...



12 Jan 2006 17:44:22
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


smacdo wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
> > combined before he got there and this year after he left?
> >
> > It's much better without him, right?
>
> Ah yes...Tifer chimes in. Unfortunately, I had yesterday in the
> pool...so I guess I lose, and you show some restraint I didn't think
> you were capable of.
>
> PS - perhaps you could talk about why Walker, who is sooooooo good,
> keeps getting shipped around from team to team. Winning teams, losing
> teams, it doesn't matter...no one wants him for more than a year or
> so...then he is on the move.

Yoo-hoo...paging Mr. Chris Tifer...you have some questions to answer
here...



13 Jan 2006 08:14:25
tygeerpawz
Re: Walker wearing out welcome

On 12 Jan 2006 17:44:22 -0800, "smacdo"
<not_your_grandfathers_email@hotmail.com > wrote:

>
>smacdo wrote:
>> Chris wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm curious: What was the C's record with Walker last year? What was it
>> > combined before he got there and this year after he left?
>> >
>> > It's much better without him, right?
>>
>> Ah yes...Tifer chimes in. Unfortunately, I had yesterday in the
>> pool...so I guess I lose, and you show some restraint I didn't think
>> you were capable of.
>>
>> PS - perhaps you could talk about why Walker, who is sooooooo good,
>> keeps getting shipped around from team to team. Winning teams, losing
>> teams, it doesn't matter...no one wants him for more than a year or
>> so...then he is on the move.
>
>Yoo-hoo...paging Mr. Chris Tifer...you have some questions to answer
>here...


If AW chucks up threes in the woods, and there is nobody around to
hear, does it still make a sound as it clanks off the rim? Do the
trees boo? I hope a bear would mistake his "shimmy" for a mating
dance. At least the bear can put something in a hole.


16 Jan 2006 19:30:45
Chris
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Robert Chin wrote:
> In the Walker Years, from 1996 - 2003, the C's were 234-308. Thanks to his
> impact, the C's were 15-67 in the Great Walker's first season. How funny,
> in 2003-2004, during Walker's first season away from the C's, they were 36 -
> 46. Not quite 15 - 67 is it? It's funny, but he C's didn't break .500
> until season 5 of the Walker years. Somehome, I don't think that the
> CURRENT group of Celtics will have to wait THAT long to break .500.
>
> Why don't you go away until the next 542 games have been played and then
> we'll compare.

Are you comparing the abundantly talented roster now with the one from
Walker's first years? Yeah, the shitty squad now is actually 2 times
better than Walker's first couple years.

What you compare is Walker's last year with him, to their first year
without.

How does that measure up, double-Chin?

What about the season where he wasn't there, and then got traded to the
C's again?

Were they slightly better with him?

That's a more fair assessment of his value.

Not what their record was when he was a rookie and the most talented
person on the roster -- the only talent on the roster.



16 Jan 2006 19:33:41
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
>
> What about the season where he wasn't there, and then got traded to the
> C's again?

Talk about why Dallas, Atlanta, and Boston (for a second time) couldn't
get him off their roster fast enough. Then explain his 'effect' on
Miami and his role on the team...

Then we might be getting somewhere.



17 Jan 2006 03:43:10
Chris
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


smacdo wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> >
> > What about the season where he wasn't there, and then got traded to the
> > C's again?
>
> Talk about why Dallas, Atlanta, and Boston (for a second time) couldn't
> get him off their roster fast enough. Then explain his 'effect' on
> Miami and his role on the team...
>
> Then we might be getting somewhere.

First, you talk about the win/loss record.

Stop trying to turn it on me. If you can't come up with any good
responses about their record, then you must be a broken old man.



18 Jan 2006 06:31:26
smacdo
Re: Walker wearing out welcome


Chris wrote:
>
> First, you talk about the win/loss record.
>
> Stop trying to turn it on me. If you can't come up with any good
> responses about their record, then you must be a broken old man.

I came up with all kinds of points...you are the one who has nothing.
When you can respond to the things I brought up (his performance,
contract, taking time from young guys, rep in the league, constant
moving lately, inability to get a role on a contender) then let me
know.

Tif, you haven't come up with one shred of a basketball conversation
here...and with all of the things I brought up I think you show the
lack of depth in your point by continuing to ram home the record of the
Celts in 37 games...

So I guess this conversation is over?