29 Dec 2005 10:16:27
s_knight8
Poof! Steph disappears

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix294568477dec29,0,45
26718.story?coll=ny-knicks-print


ORLANDO, Fla. -- One game after being benched for most of the fourth quarter
in a loss to the Nets, Stephon Marbury seemingly took himself out of the
Knicks' offense. Was it a coincidence or cause and effect?

Knicks coach Larry Brown sounded mystified by Marbury's failure to get his
normal share of shots, points and assists. But Marbury said he was content
to let Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford carry the offense while he tried to
play the traditional point-guard role in the Knicks' 105-95 loss to Orlando
last night at TD Waterhouse Centre.

Curry came off the bench to score 29 points, shoot 10-for-17 and grab nine
rebounds in 25 minutes until he was forced to leave the game because of a
recurring left calf strain with 6:07 left and the Knicks trailing 94-82.
Crawford, who replaced injured Quentin Richardson (back spasms), added 24
points.

But it wasn't enough because the Knicks' defensive effort was so bad. They
allowed the Magic (11-15) to shoot 52.8 percent, gave up 23 points on 18
turnovers, were outscored 20-7 on the fast break and had zero steals to 14
for the Magic. Ordinarily, Marbury would be more involved in the offense,
especially in the late stages. But he took only three shots in the first
three quarters and finished with five points on 0-for-7 shooting while
totaling a mere three assists and no steals.

"I think he just didn't want to shoot the ball," Brown said. "I thought he'd
have 15 to 20 assists [if he wasn't shooting]. It's just one of those
nights. Maybe he didn't feel like he was on."

Asked if Marbury deferred too much to Curry, Brown said, "I don't know. I
know he was 0-for-7 with three assists in 41 minutes. That's tough. But he
tried to guard. It's just one of those things."

This isn't the first time Marbury has struggled to find his place in Brown's
offense, but the coach sounded puzzled as to why Marbury wasn't more
aggressive in finding his shot.

"You know, he's got the ball all the time," Brown said. "I ran probably as
much stuff for him tonight as I have at any time. It's just one of those
nights. Maybe he didn't feel like he had it. But we got three assists and no
steals."

After a postgame briefing from the public relations department, a bemused
Marbury looked at the crowd of reporters waiting for him and said, "Uh-oh,
something must have happened." Then, he wrote off his performance as a poor
shooting night. "Tonight, I was just trying to do everything that coach
wanted me to do as far as running the team," Marbury said.

After trailing by 16 points early in the fourth, the Knicks (7-20) got
within six points at 101-95 but no closer after Marbury missed the second of
two foul shots with 1:32 to play. But without Curry, who reinjured his calf
on an alley-oop dunk near the end of the third quarter, and Richardson, who
did not play in the second half, they fell short, losing for the ninth time
in their past 10 games.

For much of the second half, Brown played a three-guard lineup in which
Marbury had to cover 6-7 small forward Grant Hill, who led the Magic with 26
points. Steve Francis added 17 points, and Tony Battie had 13 points and 10
rebounds.

If a few calls had gone his way, Marbury said he might have gotten to the
foul line more, but that didn't happen.

"For me, the game is not about getting numbers," Marbury said. "I think a
lot of people get that confused and mixed up. The biggest thing for me is to
go out and play as hard as I can to win. As a team, we were going well. I've
got to try to get them going being the point guard."






29 Dec 2005 15:40:56
Glenn Greenstein
Re: Poof! Steph disappears


"s_knight8" <s_knight8nospam@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:dp0ukb$oec@dispatch.concentric.net...
> http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix294568477dec29,0,45
> 26718.story?coll=ny-knicks-print
>
>
> ORLANDO, Fla. -- One game after being benched for most of the fourth
> quarter
> in a loss to the Nets, Stephon Marbury seemingly took himself out of the
> Knicks' offense. Was it a coincidence or cause and effect?
>
> Knicks coach Larry Brown sounded mystified by Marbury's failure to get his
> normal share of shots, points and assists. But Marbury said he was content
> to let Eddy Curry and Jamal Crawford carry the offense while he tried to
> play the traditional point-guard role in the Knicks' 105-95 loss to
> Orlando
> last night at TD Waterhouse Centre.
>
> Curry came off the bench to score 29 points, shoot 10-for-17 and grab nine
> rebounds in 25 minutes until he was forced to leave the game because of a
> recurring left calf strain with 6:07 left and the Knicks trailing 94-82.
> Crawford, who replaced injured Quentin Richardson (back spasms), added 24
> points.
>
> But it wasn't enough because the Knicks' defensive effort was so bad. They
> allowed the Magic (11-15) to shoot 52.8 percent, gave up 23 points on 18
> turnovers, were outscored 20-7 on the fast break and had zero steals to 14
> for the Magic. Ordinarily, Marbury would be more involved in the offense,
> especially in the late stages. But he took only three shots in the first
> three quarters and finished with five points on 0-for-7 shooting while
> totaling a mere three assists and no steals.
>
> "I think he just didn't want to shoot the ball," Brown said. "I thought
> he'd
> have 15 to 20 assists [if he wasn't shooting]. It's just one of those
> nights. Maybe he didn't feel like he was on."
>
> Asked if Marbury deferred too much to Curry, Brown said, "I don't know. I
> know he was 0-for-7 with three assists in 41 minutes. That's tough. But he
> tried to guard. It's just one of those things."
>
> This isn't the first time Marbury has struggled to find his place in
> Brown's
> offense, but the coach sounded puzzled as to why Marbury wasn't more
> aggressive in finding his shot.
>
> "You know, he's got the ball all the time," Brown said. "I ran probably as
> much stuff for him tonight as I have at any time. It's just one of those
> nights. Maybe he didn't feel like he had it. But we got three assists and
> no
> steals."
>
> After a postgame briefing from the public relations department, a bemused
> Marbury looked at the crowd of reporters waiting for him and said, "Uh-oh,
> something must have happened." Then, he wrote off his performance as a
> poor
> shooting night. "Tonight, I was just trying to do everything that coach
> wanted me to do as far as running the team," Marbury said.
>
> After trailing by 16 points early in the fourth, the Knicks (7-20) got
> within six points at 101-95 but no closer after Marbury missed the second
> of
> two foul shots with 1:32 to play. But without Curry, who reinjured his
> calf
> on an alley-oop dunk near the end of the third quarter, and Richardson,
> who
> did not play in the second half, they fell short, losing for the ninth
> time
> in their past 10 games.
>
> For much of the second half, Brown played a three-guard lineup in which
> Marbury had to cover 6-7 small forward Grant Hill, who led the Magic with
> 26
> points. Steve Francis added 17 points, and Tony Battie had 13 points and
> 10
> rebounds.
>
> If a few calls had gone his way, Marbury said he might have gotten to the
> foul line more, but that didn't happen.
>
> "For me, the game is not about getting numbers," Marbury said. "I think a
> lot of people get that confused and mixed up. The biggest thing for me is
> to
> go out and play as hard as I can to win. As a team, we were going well.
> I've
> got to try to get them going being the point guard."
>
>
I think this a giant scream to Zeke from Steph to get me the F#*K out of
here.
>




29 Dec 2005 07:44:24
Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

No one wants Turdbury. Even if they offered him to the Lakers for a box
of Sunkist oranges, I'd say no.



29 Dec 2005 17:46:29
Glenn Greenstein
Re: Poof! Steph disappears


"Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!!" <rsfccarbomb@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1135871063.990025.63930@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> No one wants Turdbury. Even if they offered him to the Lakers for a box
> of Sunkist oranges, I'd say no.

They would never take Steph, that is for certain. Kobe and Steph would
probably need there own locker rooms.




29 Dec 2005 10:43:29
Dave McNulla
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

phil jackson could work with him. phil is the master.

dave



30 Dec 2005 17:07:16
Mr Black
Re: Poof! Steph disappears


"Dave McNulla" <mcnulla@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1135881808.908822.317130@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...


> phil jackson could work with him. phil is the master when surrounded with
enough star power to win a ring, otherwise he is nothing.
>
> dave

Fixed your post.

MrB




30 Dec 2005 11:36:03
Dave McNulla
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

really, now, my post was supposed to sarcastic. but since you bring it
up, how many championships were won by teams that didn't have enough
stars to win a ring? even the seattle supersonics had gus williams and
jack sikma, even the pistons have rasheed wallace and rip hamilton.

while you are at it, how many teams that were surrounded by enough star
power to win a ring didn't win one? that will take some time just to
list the cream of the crop.

dave



31 Dec 2005 11:32:01
Mr Black
Re: Poof! Steph disappears


"Dave McNulla" <mcnulla@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1135971363.735423.37800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> really, now, my post was supposed to sarcastic. but since you bring it
> up, how many championships were won by teams that didn't have enough
> stars to win a ring? even the seattle supersonics had gus williams and
> jack sikma, even the pistons have rasheed wallace and rip hamilton.

Not to take anything away from Sheed & Rip or Sikma & Williams, but are any
of those tandems really of the same calibre as the superstars that Phil has
had at his disposal over the years? Shaq & Kobe, Jordan & Pippen....

MrB




30 Dec 2005 21:07:19
Nate Smith
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

Mr Black wrote:
> "Dave McNulla" <mcnulla@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1135971363.735423.37800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>>really, now, my post was supposed to sarcastic. but since you bring it
>>up, how many championships were won by teams that didn't have enough
>>stars to win a ring? even the seattle supersonics had gus williams and
>>jack sikma, even the pistons have rasheed wallace and rip hamilton.
>
>
> Not to take anything away from Sheed & Rip or Sikma & Williams, but are any
> of those tandems really of the same calibre as the superstars that Phil has
> had at his disposal over the years? Shaq & Kobe, Jordan & Pippen....
>
> MrB


huh????
ben wallace is probably Detroit's most important player.

a guy like rip hamilton is easily replaced. billups is
more important than rip. sheed is certainly important!
they have a tough starting 5.

the real anomaly is the 75 GS warriors with rick barry and
his supporting cast. overachieving against the loaded
60-win washington team.

jordan & pippen are also something of an anomaly.

all other multiple-title-winning teams had a dominant center.



- nate


31 Dec 2005 22:39:25
Gary S. Simon
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

In article <43b5d17e$0$18197$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au >,
"Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au > wrote:


> the superstars that Phil has
> had at his disposal over the years? Shaq & Kobe, Jordan & Pippen


In addition to Phil Jackson's success in encouraging his inherited
superstars (Jordan and O'Neal) to succeed _with_ their teammates (rather
than in spite of them), don't ignore the role Jackson played in
developing his "second stars".

What were Scottie Pippen's NBA credentials before Jackson took over
as his head coach? Doug Collins had Michael Joardan doing most of the
ball-handling for the 1988-89 Bulls. Jackson helped Pippen become a
"point forward", and mature into a great two-way player.

And Kobe Bryant wasn't regarded as a top-notch defender before
Jackson became _his_ head coach. Almost immediately thereafter, Bryant
was a top-ranked defensive player.


01 Jan 2006 10:27:16
Mr Black
Re: Poof! Steph disappears


"Gary S. Simon" <garscosi@thisisatypo.pipeline.com > wrote in message
news:garscosi-E84F79.17395231122005@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <43b5d17e$0$18197$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
> "Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> In addition to Phil Jackson's success in encouraging his inherited
> superstars (Jordan and O'Neal) to succeed _with_ their teammates (rather
> than in spite of them), don't ignore the role Jackson played in
> developing his "second stars".
>
> What were Scottie Pippen's NBA credentials before Jackson took over
> as his head coach? Doug Collins had Michael Joardan doing most of the
> ball-handling for the 1988-89 Bulls. Jackson helped Pippen become a
> "point forward", and mature into a great two-way player.
>
> And Kobe Bryant wasn't regarded as a top-notch defender before
> Jackson became _his_ head coach. Almost immediately thereafter, Bryant
> was a top-ranked defensive player.

You can't be serious? Scottie and Kobe were/are top flight players, Phil did
not bring the greatness out of them, they were both always destined for it
due to the talent they possess. I think you are giving the aen master
wayyyyyyyyyyy to much credit.

MrB




31 Dec 2005 23:49:31
Dave McNulla
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

"Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au > wrote in message
news:43b713ce$0$17707$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Gary S. Simon" <garscosi@thisisatypo.pipeline.com> wrote in message
> news:garscosi-E84F79.17395231122005@news1.west.earthlink.net...
>> In article <43b5d17e$0$18197$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
>> "Mr Black" <mr_black@ REMOVE SPAMBLOCK optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> In addition to Phil Jackson's success in encouraging his inherited
>> superstars (Jordan and O'Neal) to succeed _with_ their teammates (rather
>> than in spite of them), don't ignore the role Jackson played in
>> developing his "second stars".
>>
>> What were Scottie Pippen's NBA credentials before Jackson took over
>> as his head coach? Doug Collins had Michael Joardan doing most of the
>> ball-handling for the 1988-89 Bulls. Jackson helped Pippen become a
>> "point forward", and mature into a great two-way player.
>>
>> And Kobe Bryant wasn't regarded as a top-notch defender before
>> Jackson became _his_ head coach. Almost immediately thereafter, Bryant
>> was a top-ranked defensive player.
>
> You can't be serious? Scottie and Kobe were/are top flight players, Phil
> did
> not bring the greatness out of them, they were both always destined for it
> due to the talent they possess. I think you are giving the aen master
> wayyyyyyyyyyy to much credit.

you aren't giving him enough credit. your only take is that nobody else had
stars that good. that's because he's a better coach. phil won nine
championships. as in five more than pat freaking riley. seven more than
chuck daly. eight more than red holzman, bill fitch, larry brown, and billy
cunningham.

there is only one guy in jackson's league as coach, and he doesn't coach
anymore.

dave




02 Jan 2006 20:08:35
Gary S. Simon
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

In article <RPLtf.3228$ZA5.2468@fed1read05 >,
"Dave McNulla" <mcnulla@hotmail.com > wrote:

> phil won nine championships. . . .
> eight more than red holzman


seven (if anyone is counting).

Jackson (rightfully, IMO) gives a lot of credit to Holzman


02 Jan 2006 23:14:08
Dave McNulla
Re: Poof! Steph disappears

"Gary S. Simon" <garscosi@thisisatypo.pipeline.com > wrote in message
news:garscosi-7660FB.15090602012006@news1.west.earthlink.net...
> In article <RPLtf.3228$ZA5.2468@fed1read05>,
> "Dave McNulla" <mcnulla@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> phil won nine championships. . . .
>> eight more than red holzman
>
>
> seven (if anyone is counting).
>
> Jackson (rightfully, IMO) gives a lot of credit to Holzman

my bad. i recently started watching the nba in 78, and all i've ever heard
about is the 'willis reed' game that was dominated by clyde frazier.

jackson is right to give him credit, the knicks had a real team game from
what i hear. but that doesn't mean jackson didn't surpass red. i hear
popovich give brown credit even though pop has more nba championships (brown
had 1 nba, 1 aba, and 1 ncaa, iirc).

dave