23 Nov 2004 23:58:35
mrjamaREM@aol.com
Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.

In case you haven't noticed, the ACC just had one of soon to be many
power ratings busters last night when Miami lost to South Carolina
State at home by 10. This is the kind of loss in the past that had me
wringing my hands wondering why anyone would want this school in its
conference. No tradition, empty arenas, and an administration that
spends more money on the football player toilets than the b-ball team.
And this crappy loss comes early even for Miami.

The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
past two years. I *may* give the nod to the ACC this year, even with
Miami and VaTech. But the jury is still out, early returns have not
been impressive. But next year, when the Big East adds the Big Four,
these conference arguments are OVER dude. The Big East will be the
best hands down.

As for Miami and VaTech, I give ACC fans the same comment I give them
regarding Thanksgiving dinner. Enjoy!

Jama


24 Nov 2004 10:24:41
Harry Everhart
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

> As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
> taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.

I think you need a dose of reality. Just as when FSU entered the ACC -
the new conference attracted football players to all schools - and now
the ACC football has equalized. The high tide is lifting all boats.
Same thing will happen in ACC basketball. Miami - BC - VT are not
basketball powers now - but players will come there just to be able to
play Duke - UNC - Wake - Maryland. Also - the ACC - divides football
money and basketball money among all members equally - giving the
schools the money they need to have facilities that attract players.
The Big East will become the new Conference USA - not ready for prime
time. As an ACC fan - we thank the Big East for giving us three of their
best teams and some excellent TV and recruiting markets. After all - if
like you say the move was so good for both the ACC and the Big East -
why did you guys go kicking and screaming into the courts to try to stop
it? You acted like some fellow whose wife left him and he fights her in
court to come back.


24 Nov 2004 10:48:01
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"mrjamaREM@aol.com" <mrjama@aol.com > wrote

> The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
> past two years.

Nice troll.

--Tedward




24 Nov 2004 11:08:29
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"Harry Everhart" <harry@everhart.com > wrote:

> > As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
> > taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.
>
> I think you need a dose of reality. Just as when FSU entered the ACC -
> the new conference attracted football players to all schools - and now
> the ACC football has equalized. The high tide is lifting all boats.

"Paging Coach Roof...Mr. Roof to the courtesy phone please...
Paging Coach Roof..."

Rising tides apparently don't lift shipwrecks in the Wake of the
Hurricanes.

--Tedward

New salad dressing: honey-sarcasm




24 Nov 2004 12:21:28
jaybyrd
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this



mrjamaREM@aol.com wrote:
> As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
> taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the ACC just had one of soon to be many
> power ratings busters last night when Miami lost to South Carolina
> State at home by 10. This is the kind of loss in the past that had me
> wringing my hands wondering why anyone would want this school in its
> conference. No tradition, empty arenas, and an administration that
> spends more money on the football player toilets than the b-ball team.
> And this crappy loss comes early even for Miami.
>

Obviously football >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
basketball


PP PP
PP PP PP tt tt
PP PP PP tt tt
PP PP tttttt ttttttt
PP PP ii ttt ttt
PP ii ii it tt tt tt tt
PP iii iii ttt tt



24 Nov 2004 13:32:03
mrjamaREM@aol.com
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"Edward M. Kennedy" <nospam@baconburger.com > wrote in message news:<co2afr$eh4$1@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu>...
> "mrjamaREM@aol.com" <mrjama@aol.com> wrote
>
> > The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
> > past two years.
>
> Nice troll.
>
> --Tedward

Troll?
The Big East has the last two National Champions, and has always been
considered one of the best conferences.

Note that I said "arguably", meaning you could (and many people have)
make a valid argument on something that is an opinion. For example,
the ACC folks always like to point out that the "worst" team in the
ACC is better than the worst team in the Big East. Well, that's true.
But you could also line them up side-by-side, in which case the Big
East was better. Or you can go by power ratings (ACC), or by who won
the National Championship (Big East), or tourney performance
(basically a tie), or tourney performance weighted by seed (Big East),
or draft picks, or players in the NBA. Whatever.

Point is, after this year, Big East basketball is king. You have two
conferences that are basically even, one takes a big step back, one
takes a big step forward.

Enjoy the tailgating, I hope it was worth it.

Jama


24 Nov 2004 13:45:06
mrjamaREM@aol.com
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

Harry Everhart <harry@everhart.com > wrote in message news:<harry-E9475A.10244124112004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>...
> > As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
> > taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.
>
> I think you need a dose of reality. Just as when FSU entered the ACC -
> the new conference attracted football players to all schools - and now
> the ACC football has equalized. The high tide is lifting all boats.
> Same thing will happen in ACC basketball. Miami - BC - VT are not
> basketball powers now - but players will come there just to be able to
> play Duke - UNC - Wake - Maryland. Also - the ACC - divides football
> money and basketball money among all members equally - giving the
> schools the money they need to have facilities that attract players.
> The Big East will become the new Conference USA - not ready for prime
> time. As an ACC fan - we thank the Big East for giving us three of their
> best teams and some excellent TV and recruiting markets. After all - if
> like you say the move was so good for both the ACC and the Big East -
> why did you guys go kicking and screaming into the courts to try to stop
> it? You acted like some fellow whose wife left him and he fights her in
> court to come back.

NewsFlash!
The best ACC basketball season FSU ever had was its FIRST in the ACC.
Since then its been all downhill. What rising tide? The argument
makes no sense. FSU basketball has never gotten better, why should
Miami and VaTech? If anything, they will focus more on football, as
will most other ACC teams, since that is clearly the most important
sport in the conference by far.

Losing the three teams (Miami, VaTech, and BC) to the ACC hurts BE
football big time (sort of - the BE is still a BCS league, and will
remain so), but the only tickle felt by BBall is BC, and thats ONLY
because of rivalries. BC is an average program, getting to the NCAAs
once every 3 years and hoping to get out of the 1st round. Heck, at
least Providence beats UConn once in a while.

Meanwhile, BE basketball gets much better, and ACC basketball gets
worse.

I assume your Conf USA comment refers to football. True enough. Oh
well, I guess its a bummer if you care about college football.

But for basketball fans, this is the best.

Jama


24 Nov 2004 22:38:24
George W. Harris
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

mrjama@aol.com (mrjamaREM@aol.com) wrote:

:"Edward M. Kennedy" <nospam@baconburger.com > wrote in message news:<co2afr$eh4$1@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu>...
: > "mrjamaREM@aol.com" <mrjama@aol.com> wrote
: >
: > > The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
: > > past two years.
: >
: > Nice troll.
: >
: > --Tedward
:
:Troll?

That's right, Ted, OneWeirdMamaJama
isn't a troll. His stupidity isn't deliberate, it's natural.

:Jama

--
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV!

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'.


24 Nov 2004 17:41:43
Harry Everhart
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

> The best ACC basketball season FSU ever had was its FIRST in the ACC.
> Since then its been all downhill. What rising tide? The argument
> makes no sense. FSU basketball has never gotten better, why should
> Miami and VaTech? If anything, they will focus more on football, as
> will most other ACC teams, since that is clearly the most important
> sport in the conference by far. -Jama-

One can select several outliers and try to project them as the norm. Of
course that is foolish. Truly - if the Big East was so happy to lose
Miami - VT - BC - why did they throw such a hissy fit - even file
lawsuits? Reason - because the teams will be sorely missed. Replacing
them with Dayton - Cincinnati - or any other second tier programs does
not change it. You choose FSU basketball as an example. I think the FSU
fans are very happy being in the ACC. We get to see lots of good games
here - and enjoy the extra money that being in the ACC provides. FSU
fans enjoyed FSU rutsing thru a weak schedule - and many of them are
having a hard time dealing with a stronger ACC now. Adding Miami - VT -
and BC to an already difficult football schedule with OOC games with
Miami and Florida every year - makes undefeated seasons a thing of the
past.
The 12 schools seems to be very happy with their new league except maybe
for Duke and UNC because they have lost a bit of influence in a 12
member conference that will treat football and basketball equally. I
agree that all of this has been done for the money of a conference
football playoff game. If all of this helps toward the goal of a
football playoff system - it will be worth it.
As an FSU fan - I am happy with the new ACC for both sports. I wish they
would have brought Syracuse along too. :-) It will be fun traveling
Boston and Blacksburg.
Harry


24 Nov 2004 23:12:15
Donnie Barnes
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

On Wed, 24 Nov, mrjamaREM@aol.com wrote:
> Meanwhile, BE basketball gets much better, and ACC basketball gets
> worse.

Look at the top 25 and let me know about that "worse" part.

You refer to the BE having the last two national champions as a metric of
which conference is best and then also try to claim that because some
bottom feeders were added to the ACC in basketball that the conference
somehow got "worse."

Look at the state of the top half of the league, though. Gary Williams has
proven he can win an NC. Skip Prosser has Wake at number one in the
country right now, but they've *been* solid top ten for a while (with no
damned sign of getting worse). Duke is Duke. UNC is going to be UNC again
(some would even say they are there, pretty much). Hewitt has taken GT to
current elite status. What's better is that they seem to have staying
power, unlike many Cremins teams.

It's all in how you measure the "best league." Please define a metric.
Most likely to win the NC? Highest average top to bottom finish? Best top
half of the conference? You might win the highest average, but I doubt
you'd get the nod on most likely to produce this year's NC, nor best top
half of the conference. You can probably pick some other metrics that you
would have a good shot at, though. *shrug*


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.


24 Nov 2004 23:43:17
George W. Harris
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

Donnie Barnes <djbSPAMSUCKS@donniebarnes.com > wrote:

:It's all in how you measure the "best league." Please define a metric.

WeirdMamaJama uses whatever metric makes the
Big East look good. Five years ago he was arguing that
you should just ignore all the bottom feeders.

--
"If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce, they
taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does." -Groucho Marx

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'


24 Nov 2004 18:37:40
Pauli G
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

> One can select several outliers and try to project them as the norm. Of
> course that is foolish. Truly - if the Big East was so happy to lose
> Miami - VT - BC - why did they throw such a hissy fit - even file
> lawsuits? Reason - because the teams will be sorely missed. Replacing
> them with Dayton - Cincinnati - or any other second tier programs does
> not change it. You choose FSU basketball as an example. I think the FSU
> fans are very happy being in the ACC. We get to see lots of good games
> here - and enjoy the extra money that being in the ACC provides. FSU
> fans enjoyed FSU rutsing thru a weak schedule - and many of them are
> having a hard time dealing with a stronger ACC now. Adding Miami - VT -
> and BC to an already difficult football schedule with OOC games with
> Miami and Florida every year - makes undefeated seasons a thing of the
> past.
> The 12 schools seems to be very happy with their new league except maybe
> for Duke and UNC because they have lost a bit of influence in a 12
> member conference that will treat football and basketball equally. I
> agree that all of this has been done for the money of a conference
> football playoff game. If all of this helps toward the goal of a
> football playoff system - it will be worth it.
> As an FSU fan - I am happy with the new ACC for both sports. I wish they
> would have brought Syracuse along too. :-) It will be fun traveling
> Boston and Blacksburg.
> Harry

The Big East launched the lawsuits based on projected football-related
losses in revenue. Believe me, if you have seen the basketball
programs that VA Tech and Miami have put together, then you know that
the Big East would not use that as a reason for a lawsuit. The Big
East football conference was seriously hurt by the defections, and
that's why those three schools will be missed. It was
football-related and only football. As far as BC goes, the ACC has
adopted a middle-of-the-road basketball program, nothing special.

I'm still trying to figure out how a smallish northeastern urban
catholic university fits into tobacco road, and it will certainly be
fun to see them waste much of the revenue in travel costs for the
*other* sports to travel south (closest stop is Maryland). But in
the end, the ACC effectively killed classic ACC basketball with the
new teams, but got a potentially great football conference. The Big
East basketball conference will continue to be good, and the football
side of things will be a mess until the football schools split off
from the catholic non-football schools and form an all-sports
conference (which I hope they do ASAP).


25 Nov 2004 03:29:52
Charlie Board
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

Harry Everhart wrote:
>>As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
>>taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.
>
>
> I think you need a dose of reality. Just as when FSU entered the ACC -
> the new conference attracted football players to all schools - and now
> the ACC football has equalized. The high tide is lifting all boats.
> Same thing will happen in ACC basketball. Miami - BC - VT are not
> basketball powers now - but players will come there just to be able to
> play Duke - UNC - Wake - Maryland.

Clemson wants to know where their players are.



24 Nov 2004 22:52:40
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"Pauli G" <rioroad@hotmail.com > wrote

> I'm still trying to figure out how a smallish northeastern urban
> catholic university fits into tobacco road

You just described Duke if you replace catholic with Presbyterian.
Actually that's not really true anymore but we do have a religious
college called Divinity.

Wake is small too. It isn't the quantity, or even the quality. It is
the quantity of the quality that matters. Okayfine, I admit BC deserves
to be here mostly because of the headache powder, but still...

--Tedward




24 Nov 2004 22:56:26
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this


"mrjamaREM@aol.com" <mrjama@aol.com > wrote in message news:f42b1981.0411241332.55f74fa5@posting.google.com...
> "Edward M. Kennedy" <nospam@baconburger.com> wrote in message news:<co2afr$eh4$1@gargoyle.oit.duke.edu>...
> > "mrjamaREM@aol.com" <mrjama@aol.com> wrote
> >
> > > The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
> > > past two years.
> >
> > Nice troll.
> >
> > --Tedward
>
> Troll?
> The Big East has the last two National Champions, and has always been
> considered one of the best conferences.
>
> Note that I said "arguably", meaning you could (and many people have)
> make a valid argument on something that is an opinion. For example,
> the ACC folks always like to point out that the "worst" team in the
> ACC is better than the worst team in the Big East. Well, that's true.
> But you could also line them up side-by-side, in which case the Big
> East was better. Or you can go by power ratings (ACC), or by who won
> the National Championship (Big East), or tourney performance
> (basically a tie), or tourney performance weighted by seed (Big East),
> or draft picks, or players in the NBA. Whatever.

The only argument you have is that Cherry picking
is second only to goats in your diet.

If you allow stupid arguments from a historical troll
or moron, then you are "arguably" correct.

--Tedward




25 Nov 2004 04:03:43
George W. Harris
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"Edward M. Kennedy" <nospam@baconburger.com > wrote:

:"Pauli G" <rioroad@hotmail.com > wrote
:
: > I'm still trying to figure out how a smallish northeastern urban
: > catholic university fits into tobacco road
:
:You just described Duke if you replace catholic with Presbyterian.

So long as you subsequently replace
Presbyterian with Methodist.

:--Tedward
:

--
"Intelligence is too complex to capture in a single number." -Alfred Binet

George W. Harris For actual email address, replace each 'u' with an 'i'


24 Nov 2004 23:06:39
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"Donnie Barnes" <djbSPAMSUCKS@donniebarnes.com > wrote:

> > Meanwhile, BE basketball gets much better, and ACC basketball gets
> > worse.
>
> Look at the top 25 and let me know about that "worse" part.

This year he has no point because the ACC is SO FRICKING AWESOM
that we can handle the new frosh miasma and virgin blech
without losing our DOMINATE. Over time, however, he is
most unfortunately correct -- we will rue the day.

> you refer to the BE E having the last two national champions as a metric of
> which conference is best and then also try to claim that because some
> bottom feeders were added to the ACC in basketball that the conference
> somehow got "worse."

He also neglected to mention OOC record, an ACC area
of DOMINATE over the years. All power ratings favored
the ACC over many years. The Beast needs to Cherry
Pick.

Tedward




24 Nov 2004 20:55:04
Pauli G
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

mrjama@aol.com (mrjamaREM@aol.com) wrote in message news:<f42b1981.0411232358.4ab64c4f@posting.google.com >...
> As a Big East fan, I just wanted to once again thank the ACC for
> taking Miami and VaTech off our hands.
>
> In case you haven't noticed, the ACC just had one of soon to be many
> power ratings busters last night when Miami lost to South Carolina
> State at home by 10. This is the kind of loss in the past that had me
> wringing my hands wondering why anyone would want this school in its
> conference. No tradition, empty arenas, and an administration that
> spends more money on the football player toilets than the b-ball team.
> And this crappy loss comes early even for Miami.
>
> The Big East has been arguably the best conference in basketball the
> past two years. I *may* give the nod to the ACC this year, even with
> Miami and VaTech. But the jury is still out, early returns have not
> been impressive. But next year, when the Big East adds the Big Four,
> these conference arguments are OVER dude. The Big East will be the
> best hands down.
>
> As for Miami and VaTech, I give ACC fans the same comment I give them
> regarding Thanksgiving dinner. Enjoy!
>

Please do not feed the ACC homers.


25 Nov 2004 00:24:38
Edward M. Kennedy
Re: Thankyou ACC , I was waiting for this

"George W. Harris" <gharrus@mundsprung.com > wrote:

> :> I'm still trying to figure out how a smallish northeastern urban
> :> catholic university fits into tobacco road
> :
> :You just described Duke if you replace catholic with Presbyterian.
>
> So long as you subsequently replace
> Presbyterian with Methodist.

I sit corrected. I care that little.

--Tedward