25 Feb 2004 23:43:25
Wargamer Scott
Suggestions for new fans?


Greetings,

Could someone make a recommendation to help this budding baseball fan
out? My friends and I are starting to really get in to baseball and were
looking for two opinions:

First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there? I've
heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is the
most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be appreciated
too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
until the season begins)
:-)

Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!


Condemned to the Games,
S.D. Tortorice
=======================================================
"The nearest way to glory---a short cut as it were---is to strive to be
what you wish to be thought to be."---Socrates, quoted in Cicero, De
Officius




25 Feb 2004 23:56:25
Jeffrey Lichtman
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
> looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
> into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

I've been waiting for someone to ask this. My book, Baseball for
Rookies, is for beginning fans. You can read about it at
baseball-for-rookies.com.

--
- Jeff Lichtman
Author, Baseball for Rookies
http://baseball-for-rookies.com/



26 Feb 2004 03:12:15
M. Zaiem Beg
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Wargamer Scott wrote:

- > First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there? I've
- >heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is the
- >most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be appreciated
- >too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
- >until the season begins)
- > :-)

High Heat Baseball is a very good game. It is also fairly realistic. Much
more so than the EA Sports games.

- > Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
- >looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
- >into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

If you want a good idea of the culture, read _Ball Four_ by Jim Bouton.
It's well-written and it's a very, very funny book.

--
M. Zaiem Beg zbeg@iglou.com




26 Feb 2004 11:35:47
David
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

If you want agood PC then then you can't get any better Diamond Mind. it
rates every player who played in the big leagues. You can play head to head
over the internet, with Version 9. It's not like High Heat, as in it's not a
graphics game. it's far more accurate than High Heat. plus there are lots of
expansions for Greatest teams, greatest players,a nd you don't need to buy a
new game every year unlike HH, you just get the season disk.


"M. Zaiem Beg" <zbeg@iglou.com > wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.33.0402260305480.27491-100000@shell1...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Wargamer Scott wrote:
>
> -> First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there?
I've
> ->heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is
the
> ->most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be
appreciated
> ->too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
> ->until the season begins)
> -> :-)
>
> High Heat Baseball is a very good game. It is also fairly realistic. Much
> more so than the EA Sports games.
>
> -> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
> ->looking for something that captures the essence of the game without
going
> ->into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.
>
> If you want a good idea of the culture, read _Ball Four_ by Jim Bouton.
> It's well-written and it's a very, very funny book.
>
> --
> M. Zaiem Beg zbeg@iglou.com
>
>




26 Feb 2004 11:54:05
Mpoconnor7
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

> First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there? I've
>heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others?

Statis Pro is my favorite Basball board game. It was made by Avalon Hill, and
is out of print although you can pick up a copy on Ebay fairly cheaply, and
there are people on Ebay who have created cards for every player in every
season in Baseball history, so if there is a particular season you're looking
for you can find it.



>
> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
>looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
>into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

I would try to find some of the books of Roger Angell; they're probably out of
print although I'm sure you can find them on Ebay.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".


26 Feb 2004 16:13:45
Roger Moore
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

"Wargamer Scott" <wargamerscott@peoplepcnospam.com > writes:

> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
>looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
>into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

I think that you might profit quite a bit by reading a good quality "how
to play" type book. While it might seem like it's not the greatest thing
for a beginning fan, I've found that they really enhance my ability to
enjoy the game. If you have a good idea of what the players are supposed
to be doing- who is supposed to be where at when and what they're supposed
to be doing there- it provides a lot more focus to your watching. Instead
of just sitting there waiting for something to happen, you can start to
anticipate what things are likely to happen. You'll know where the action
is likely to be in advance, which is a great aid for getting the most out
of a game.

--
Roger Moore | Master of Meaningless Trivia | (raj@alumni.caltech.edu)
I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the
people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by
violent and sudden usurpations. -- James Madison


26 Feb 2004 16:34:39
Tom MacIntyre
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:43:25 -0500, "Wargamer Scott"
<wargamerscott@peoplepcnospam.com > wrote:

>
>Greetings,
>
> Could someone make a recommendation to help this budding baseball fan
>out? My friends and I are starting to really get in to baseball and were
>looking for two opinions:
>
> First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there? I've
>heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is the
>most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be appreciated
>too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
>until the season begins)
> :-)
>
> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
>looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
>into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated!
>

For an eye-opener, after you have a grasp on the game, read "The
Science of Hitting" by Ted Williams.

Tom


26 Feb 2004 14:05:13
Richard R. Hershberger
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

"M. Zaiem Beg" <zbeg@iglou.com > wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.33.0402260305480.27491-100000@shell1>...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Wargamer Scott wrote:

> -> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
> ->looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
> ->into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.
>
> If you want a good idea of the culture, read _Ball Four_ by Jim Bouton.
> It's well-written and it's a very, very funny book.

I know that I am in the minority here, but I didn't care for it. I
only got around to reading it a year or so ago, and doubtless part of
the problem I had with it is that it is something of a period piece.
But I found Bouton's recurring theme of how much smarter he was than
everyone around him to be tedious (even if it was true). I don't deny
that it was groundbreaking in its day and should be in the baseball
canon for that reason, but I don't think that it is what I would hand
to a new fan.

It would be lovely at this point to offer a better suggestion, but
alas I am drawing a blank. For what it is worth, the book Jeff
Lichtman pitched upthread looks appropriate. I may pick up a copy to
lend to new fans. But my best suggestion is to hook up with a
knowledgeable fan and attend games together.

Richard R. Hershberger


26 Feb 2004 22:42:34
Shawn Morris
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

Wargamer Scott wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> Could someone make a recommendation to help this budding baseball fan
> out? My friends and I are starting to really get in to baseball and were
> looking for two opinions:
>
> First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there? I've
> heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is the
> most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be appreciated
> too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
> until the season begins)
> :-)

Wizards of the Coast makes MLB showdown which is a collectible card
game(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=showdown/mlb). MVP Baseball
from EA sports looks to be the best PC title this spring. Diamond Mind
baseball is the best of the statistical PC titles and allows you to
replay pretty much any season in history.

>
> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
> looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
> into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.

The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743227220/qid=1077835058/sr=2-2/ref=sr_2_2/103-5920471-1479826

Tim McCarver's Baseball for Brain Surgeons and Other Fans :
Understanding and Interpreting the Game So You Can Watch It Like a Pro
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375753400/qid=1077835100/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5920471-1479826?v=glance&s=books

McCarver is not the foremost expert on baseball and in fact he can be
annoying while doing commentary on Fox, but this book covers most
aspects of the game and gives you insight into baseball strategy.

>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated!
>
>
> Condemned to the Games,
> S.D. Tortorice
> =======================================================
> "The nearest way to glory---a short cut as it were---is to strive to be
> what you wish to be thought to be."---Socrates, quoted in Cicero, De
> Officius
>
>


26 Feb 2004 23:45:21
Tom MacIntyre
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

On 26 Feb 2004 14:05:13 -0800, rrhersh@acme.com (Richard R.
Hershberger) wrote:

>"M. Zaiem Beg" <zbeg@iglou.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.33.0402260305480.27491-100000@shell1>...
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Wargamer Scott wrote:
>
>> -> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
>> ->looking for something that captures the essence of the game without going
>> ->into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.
>>
>> If you want a good idea of the culture, read _Ball Four_ by Jim Bouton.
>> It's well-written and it's a very, very funny book.
>
>I know that I am in the minority here, but I didn't care for it. I
>only got around to reading it a year or so ago, and doubtless part of
>the problem I had with it is that it is something of a period piece.
>But I found Bouton's recurring theme of how much smarter he was than
>everyone around him to be tedious (even if it was true). I don't deny
>that it was groundbreaking in its day and should be in the baseball
>canon for that reason, but I don't think that it is what I would hand
>to a new fan.
>
>It would be lovely at this point to offer a better suggestion, but
>alas I am drawing a blank. For what it is worth, the book Jeff
>Lichtman pitched upthread looks appropriate. I may pick up a copy to
>lend to new fans. But my best suggestion is to hook up with a
>knowledgeable fan and attend games together.
>
>Richard R. Hershberger

Is there a book entitled "Good Enough to Dream"? Something tells me
that it's a baseball book, and a good one.

Tom


26 Feb 2004 21:28:21
M. Zaiem Beg
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004, David wrote:

- >If you want agood PC then then you can't get any better Diamond Mind. it
- >rates every player who played in the big leagues. You can play head to head
- >over the internet, with Version 9. It's not like High Heat, as in it's not a
- >graphics game. it's far more accurate than High Heat. plus there are lots of
- >expansions for Greatest teams, greatest players,a nd you don't need to buy a
- >new game every year unlike HH, you just get the season disk.

But is Diamond Mind the best game for a newbie to baseball entirely? The
nice thing about High Heat is that you can get a good idea of how
different pitches move and how different hits and swings of the bat affect
trajectory in different ways. You also get a pretty decent understanding
of how defense works. You're not going to get that in a sim like Diamond
Mind.

- >
- >"M. Zaiem Beg" <zbeg@iglou.com> wrote in message
- >news:Pine.GSO.4.33.0402260305480.27491-100000@shell1...
- >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004, Wargamer Scott wrote:
- >>
- >> -> First, what are some of the better baseball board games out there?
- >I've
- >> ->heard of Stratomatic and ABPA (sp?), but are there any others? Which is
- >the
- >> ->most popular at the moment? PC game recommendations would be
- >appreciated
- >> ->too (we are looking for some good head-to-head games to keep us occupied
- >> ->until the season begins)
- >> -> :-)
- >>
- >> High Heat Baseball is a very good game. It is also fairly realistic. Much
- >> more so than the EA Sports games.
- >>
- >> -> Second, what is a good book for a new baseball fan to read? We are
- >> ->looking for something that captures the essence of the game without
- >going
- >> ->into too much detail that only a hardcore fan might appreciate.
- >>
- >> If you want a good idea of the culture, read _Ball Four_ by Jim Bouton.
- >> It's well-written and it's a very, very funny book.
- >>
- >> --
- >> M. Zaiem Beg zbeg@iglou.com
- >>
- >>
- >
- >
- >

--
M. Zaiem Beg zbeg@iglou.com




28 Feb 2004 19:10:15
Wargamer Scott
Re: Suggestions for new fans?

I just wanted to thank everyone who replied! I got a lot of good book
titles to check out of the library! Thanks!

As for games, I think my friends and I might go with APBA Baseball.
It looks good. I did check out Strat-o-matic, which I heard a lot
about, but I wasn't particulary impressed with their website. The
APBA site seemed much more enthusiastic about their product and
provided a better idea of what their game involves. Any opinions?

As for PC games, I will check out the recommended titles. I once did
play High Heat Baseball 2001. While the graphics were great, the game
cheated like a swindler which sort of ruined it for me. And didn't
3DO go out of business? If they did, I guess that leaves the new EA
game. BTW: I like strategy baseball games the best, where you are
more focused on picking the players and pitches, and then watching the
game as it unfolds. I have since downloaded Strategic Baseball, a
freeware product. It is nice, but a bit too rough around the edges
for me. A high-end version of that would be really great (which
HH2001 was sort of like).

Again, thanks for all the help!