30 Dec 2005 03:14:34
Scott
Waxing makes skis slower!

Has anyone seen the article in The Economist (Dec 17th, p79)? Some
researcher in Sweden did a study that says glide wax only traps dirt
and makes your skis go slower for "runs more than a couple of hundred
metres".

That will certainly require a rebuttal from the wax manufacturers.

Scott



30 Dec 2005 12:28:10
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

Dec 17th is Sweden's April 1st.



30 Dec 2005 19:07:18
Mike
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!



<revyakin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1135974490.440544.324100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Dec 17th is Sweden's April 1st.


You serious?? (About the April 1st line)





30 Dec 2005 19:38:07
Scott
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

I doubt that a mag like The Economist would publish a prank report,
although I will admit that editors or reputable magazines have been
fooled before.



30 Dec 2005 22:29:19
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

Mike, ask Nordic people in this newsgroup :)



31 Dec 2005 07:41:01
FrontRunner
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

The author of the article has come up missing. Went out for a ski and never
returned. The Norwegian police have raided Swix headquarters looking for
evidence. Incriminating E Mails have been impounded. How do you say
"Senator I have no recollection of those events" in Norwegian.

The FrontRunner
Also known as the one armed bandit due to a shoulder problem. How long
until the Birkie?

"Scott" <boultoncreek@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1136000287.839945.24680@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I doubt that a mag like The Economist would publish a prank report,
> although I will admit that editors or reputable magazines have been
> fooled before.
>




31 Dec 2005 13:21:08
klh
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------060108050305020804040201
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

here is the search results on the economist. to go further, one must
subscribe,
http://www.economist.com/index.html

> Ski wax is redundant
> Dec 14th 2005
> From Ski wax print edition
>
> THIS season, like every previous one, recreational and racing skiers
> alike will apply wax to their skis in the hope of schussing that
> little bit faster. They will do so after assessing the air's
> temperature, its humidity and the prevailing snow conditions, so as to
> determine exactly which wax they should use. Not any old wax will do....




Scott wrote:

>Has anyone seen the article in The Economist (Dec 17th, p79)? Some
>researcher in Sweden did a study that says glide wax only traps dirt
>and makes your skis go slower for "runs more than a couple of hundred
>metres".
>
>That will certainly require a rebuttal from the wax manufacturers.
>
>Scott
>
>
>

--------------060108050305020804040201
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" >
<html >
<head >
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type" >
<title ></title>
</head >
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" >
here is the search results on the economist. to go further, one must
subscribe,<br >
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.economist.com/index.html"color=#0000FF> >http://www.economist.com/index.html</a><br>
<blockquote type="cite" ><font face="verdana, geneva, arial, sans serif"
size="+1" ><b> Ski wax is redundant</b><br clear="all">
</font ><big><font color="#999999"
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Geneva, sans-serif" size="-2" ><big>
Dec 14th 2005 <br >
From </big ></font></big><font face="verdana, geneva, arial, sans serif"
size="+1" ><b> Ski wax</b></font><big><font color="#999999"
face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Geneva, sans-serif" size="-2" ><big>
print edition</big ></font></big><br>
<font face="verdana, geneva, arial, sans serif" size="-1" ><br>
</font ><font face="verdana, geneva, arial, sans serif" size="-1"><b><font
face="verdana,geneva,arial,sans serif" size="-1" >THIS
season, like every previous one, recreational and racing skiers alike
will apply wax to their skis in the hope of schussing that little bit
faster. They will do so after assessing the air's temperature, its
humidity and the prevailing snow conditions, so as to determine exactly
which wax they should use. Not any old wax will do.<b >…</b></font></b></font></blockquote>
<br >
<br >
<br >
Scott wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid1135941274.526295.82670@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com"
type="cite" >
<pre wrap="" >Has anyone seen the article in The Economist (Dec 17th, p79)? Some
researcher in Sweden did a study that says glide wax only traps dirt
and makes your skis go slower for "runs more than a couple of hundred
metres".

That will certainly require a rebuttal from the wax manufacturers.

Scott

</pre >
</blockquote >
</body >
</html >

--------------060108050305020804040201--


31 Dec 2005 06:17:01
grip@sm.luth.se
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!


Scott wrote:
> I doubt that a mag like The Economist would publish a prank report,
> although I will admit that editors or reputable magazines have been
> fooled before.
Correct. It's no prank and april fool's day is April 1st in Sweden. I
haven't seen the article in the Economist, but different Swedish media
has reported about it. It's the result of two years' of research at a
Swedish university, published in a Licentate thesis by Leonid Kuzmin

In Sweden, a Licentiate thesis is something that you write half-way
between Master of Science and Ph.D. degree. Compared to a Ph.D.
thesis, there is not the same high requirements for having it reviewed
vy and defended "against" experts in the field.

Interesting results, anyway.

You find more about his results and ski-preparation-tips (in English)
here:
http://www.expertsvar.nu/publicIndex.asp?page=10&PRID=5785&lang=2

I don't know if the thesis is written in English, but you have his
e-mail address on the above web page so if you're interested you can
ask him if he has more detailed material (or the entre thesis in
English).

/ Niklas



31 Dec 2005 10:51:48
George Cleveland
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

On 30 Dec 2005 03:14:34 -0800, "Scott" <boultoncreek@hotmail.com >
wrote:

>Has anyone seen the article in The Economist (Dec 17th, p79)? Some
>researcher in Sweden did a study that says glide wax only traps dirt
>and makes your skis go slower for "runs more than a couple of hundred
>metres".
>
>That will certainly require a rebuttal from the wax manufacturers.
>
>Scott


The interesting thing to me is the possibility that the current
running surfaces are designed for (or at least contain the properties
for) absorbing glide wax. I wonder if there aren't other running
surface materials that have been rejected in the past as being
impervious to glide wax absorption that may now be reconsidered for
ski bases.


g.c.


31 Dec 2005 14:59:28
zekeskar@yahoo.com
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

Wasn't this already discussed on this forum? I'll check the archives
when I have the chance, but tidbits that come to my mind are - what
temps/conditions were involved, what methodology, repeatable? etc. etc.
-zeke

Scott wrote:
> Has anyone seen the article in The Economist (Dec 17th, p79)? Some
> researcher in Sweden did a study that says glide wax only traps dirt
> and makes your skis go slower for "runs more than a couple of hundred
> metres".
>
> That will certainly require a rebuttal from the wax manufacturers.
>
> Scott



01 Jan 2006 14:31:55
Scott
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

I've been off the ng for the summer and only just got back on. It's
quite possible I missed the discussion, just as I missed the article
when it came out. I only came across it when I was going through back
issues trying to catch up on my reading. Let me know if you find the
archived discussion.

-Scott.



01 Jan 2006 19:45:21
zekeskar@yahoo.com
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!


Scott wrote:
> I've been off the ng for the summer and only just got back on. It's
> quite possible I missed the discussion, just as I missed the article
> when it came out. I only came across it when I was going through back
> issues trying to catch up on my reading. Let me know if you find the
> archived discussion.
>
> -Scott.

There's a discussion called "Should All Skis be Waxless?", around
mid-Dec. Interesting stuff for sure. -zeke



02 Jan 2006 04:49:36
Scott
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

For anyone who didn't see the original thread (like me), here is a link
to an article about this guy's report:

http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html



09 Jan 2006 17:29:46
Onno61
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!


Scott wrote:
> For anyone who didn't see the original thread (like me), here is a link
> to an article about this guy's report:
>
> http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html

And here's the link to the economist article. I googled it and was able
to read the article without subscribing.
http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5300005&no_na_tran=1

COULD this be true???

Onno



11 Jan 2006 23:57:37
Anders
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!


Erik Kiaer wrote:

> The current Norwegian waxing boss Terje Langli finds it interesting, as
> does a former Norwegian team waxer Geir Tufto (currently under contract
> with the Swedish team). They both say that in very wet conditions,
> scraping is the best approach.

BTW according to some, leaving a suitable pair out for the summer - to
dry up or to oxidize, depending on which theory you subscribe to -
produces the fastest skis (which you naturally don't wax) for those
conditions...


Anders



12 Jan 2006 19:01:09
lasr
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 02:29:46 +0100, Onno61 <ooerlema@hamilton.edu > wrote:

>
> Scott wrote:
>> For anyone who didn't see the original thread (like me), here is a link
>> to an article about this guy's report:
>>
>> http://www.sighs.com/srn/000814.html
>
> And here's the link to the economist article. I googled it and was able
> to read the article without subscribing.
> http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5300005&no_na_tran=1
>
> COULD this be true???
>
> Onno
>
And here is Leonid Kuzmin's study:
http://toolbox.n3sport.no/Downloads/64098/docs/No_wax_phd.pdf

LASR


13 Jan 2006 08:45:48
Chris Crawford
Re: Waxing makes skis slower!

Wow, that was a pretty sobering article. Somehow it makes me feel
relieved because in my own experience the waxing black arts seemed
overly complicated, expensive, and never yielded consistent results. I
think this means the end of waxing for me. I'd like to see the wax
proponents counter with some scientific, objective, peer reviewed
results but I've never seen any until now. So now I;m feeling panicky
about my structured bases, what should I do???? Maybe just get out
there and ski and not worry about it? But just in case I need to
indulge by guilty panic can anyone point me to a good article on how to
accomplish this HSS steel scraping - I may try it on a piar of skis.

The weakest point of the article for me was the lack of testing in
really cold snow in which the crystals are hard and sharp.

Waxing products kind of remind me of the bike world in which, in order
to reinvent themselves and sell new products, the frame makers are
always coming out with new gimmicks like "carbon chainstays on
tintanium bikes to increase road compliancy while decreasing flame
flex". Of couse, the road cycling world is one in which you will never
see double-blind, randomized tests of frames because once you control
for tires, air pressure, seat, and rider geometry, no one would ever be
able to tell the difference between most bikes.

Regards,
Chris Crawford