27 Feb 2006 12:21:20
Marcello
Bode Apologists...why?

The guy is an awesome talent that doesn't seem to know how to handle the
media well. I don't think anyone is talking negatively about his abilities,
it is all about what he has said and done that has given some light into his
attitude that people have a problem with. My question is why are so many
people in here so defensive about Bode as though he can do no wrong?

Are the apologists suggesting he hasn't said some dumb things that give
light into his attitude toward things, or are the apologists of the position
that Bode is not saying what he believes to the public (or is not smart
enough to know how he is coming off in the public eye)?




27 Feb 2006 20:58:57
lal_truckee
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Marcello wrote:
> The guy is an awesome talent that doesn't seem to know how to handle the
> media well. I don't think anyone is talking negatively about his abilities,
> it is all about what he has said and done that has given some light into his
> attitude that people have a problem with. My question is why are so many
> people in here so defensive about Bode as though he can do no wrong?

Because the stuff you and other's are crowing about, Bode didn't say or
do. It's invented and repeated by people (yes, you) who clearly haven't
gone to the source. It a negative bandwagon created by people who first
unrealistically overhyped a guy then tear the same guy down for being
normally human.

Just a single example. Some jackass reporter asks Miller if he's going
to win 5 gold medals, and Bode points out that that's not realistic,
it's not even possible, and (with a grin) says what would he do with 5
medals anyway - there's no wall space to hang them. And that goofball
moron reporter writes that Bode doesn't care whether he wins medals. And
others reporters repeat the phony report as if Miller said he didn't
care. And some equally goofball "every four years" internet posters post
the reporter's invented story as if it's word's from Miller's mouth.

It's irritating enough to cause a counter reaction among people who
actually follow ski racing; but it shouldn't. We're used to trolls.

> Are the apologists suggesting he hasn't said some dumb things that give
> light into his attitude toward things, or are the apologists of the position
> that Bode is not saying what he believes to the public (or is not smart
> enough to know how he is coming off in the public eye)?

His only problem is he's willing to talk to reporters. He shouldn't talk
to American reporters, period. Stick with Alpine country reporters,
where he can assume the reporter is a skier, and probably raced when he
was younger, so the report will have at least some small clue.


27 Feb 2006 13:19:07
Marty
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Hi Marcello,

I do believe that Bode said what he said to further prove to himself
what he thought true about the media and his "fans".

I do believe that he did the best that he could at the Olympics and
there are many that would have defined their career with what he did
do.

I don't think that he could have done any better if he had just stayed
in his bus and read the bible at night.

I know that he is one of the most exciting and best male ski racers to
have ever graced the slopes of the White Circus.

I know that his style and equipment choice, many times mocked and
frowned upon, are now copied because they are so fast.

I know that he has brought much new attention to Ski Racing in the US.

Maybe I'm sick and twisted, but I think I get him and his message and I
like both.

I cannot deny his ability as a ski racer and I really, really
appreciate that.

There are ski racers that are exciting and popular ONLY because of the
medals that they have won. Bode is so much more than that.

He started the bus thing.

He chose ski racing over snowboarding.

He had "For Rent" on the front of his helmet at one time.

Barilla is really good pasta.

Playboy playmates dig him.

He cut his hand really bad on glass while skateboarding.

He loves to play with the media's head and they don't have a fucking
clue when he is playing them, which makes it twice as fun.

He used to race Fischer.

He used to race Rossignol and after yet another equipment failure
during a WC race, he said something really funny about it to a
reporter. Something like, "they're a great binding when they're
working right."

He's honest.

He likes a good beer.

He makes me think.

I wonder what the other WC ski racers think of him.

He has more fans in Austria than he does in his own country.

I hope his brother recovers 100%.

I think he'd make an AWESOME ski racing coach.

He won that made for TV sports thing a few years ago.
--
Marty



27 Feb 2006 13:38:51
CliffB
Re: Bode Apologists...why?


Marty wrote:
> Hi Marcello,
>
> I do believe that Bode said what he said to further prove to himself
> what he thought true about the media and his "fans".
>
........
>
> He has more fans in Austria than he does in his own country.
>


Of course they do; he rolled over and helped make possible the Austrian
sweep of the slalom.



27 Feb 2006 21:45:38
Alex Heney
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:21:20 -0800, "Marcello" <marcello@nospam.com >
wrote:

>The guy is an awesome talent that doesn't seem to know how to handle the
>media well.

Yep. No argument there.

> I don't think anyone is talking negatively about his abilities,
>it is all about what he has said and done that has given some light into his
>attitude that people have a problem with. My question is why are so many
>people in here so defensive about Bode as though he can do no wrong?
>

I don't think anybody has said, or even implied, that he "can do no
wrong".

It's just that those detracting him are going way OTT with it.

Those who expected him to come home with several gold medals had way
unrealistic expectations.

A large majority of the competitors at the Olympics came home with no
medals at all, including most of the US ski team. So why is it only
Bode who is getting castigated?

If he deserves castigation for not living up to expectations, so do
the others. Personally, I don't think any of them deserve it.

Except *perhaps* Lindsey Jacobellis, for losing the gold due to
showing off. But even that, although it was a stupid thing to do,
does not deserve the level of criticism that Bode is getting.

>Are the apologists suggesting he hasn't said some dumb things that give
>light into his attitude toward things, or are the apologists of the position
>that Bode is not saying what he believes to the public (or is not smart
>enough to know how he is coming off in the public eye)?
>

I don't think so.

They are just saying he doesn't deserve the type of criticism he is
getting. The people who are saying he shouldn't have been there - Who
else is there, that is doing better than him on the world cup circuit,
but wasn't in the team? - Answer - Nobody.

Criticise him for what he has said, for being (at least) naive, fair
enough.

But criticising his performance just shows a lack of understanding of
ski racing.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Get the facts first - you can distort them later!
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom


27 Feb 2006 13:50:20
Marcello
Re: Bode Apologists...why?


"lal_truckee" <lal_truckee@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:lKJMf.40943$H71.12899@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> Marcello wrote:
>> The guy is an awesome talent that doesn't seem to know how to handle the
>> media well. I don't think anyone is talking negatively about his
>> abilities, it is all about what he has said and done that has given some
>> light into his attitude that people have a problem with. My question is
>> why are so many people in here so defensive about Bode as though he can
>> do no wrong?
>
> Because the stuff you and other's are crowing about, Bode didn't say or
> do. It's invented and repeated by people (yes, you) who clearly haven't
> gone to the source. It a negative bandwagon created by people who first
> unrealistically overhyped a guy then tear the same guy down for being
> normally human.


Except that a lot of what he said was in TV interviews as well.




27 Feb 2006 22:21:00
lal_truckee
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Alex Heney wrote:
>
> Except *perhaps* Lindsey Jacobellis, for losing the gold due to
> showing off.

She's going to be remembered.
Like Jim Thorpe, who had all his medals rescinded for being poor and
earning eating money.
Or Karl Schranz who was disqualified by Brundage for using his choice of
skis.

It's hard to make a unique name for yourself, and she surely did.


27 Feb 2006 14:32:30
Marcello
Re: Bode Apologists...why?


"Alex Heney" <me8@privacy.net > wrote in message
news:n0s602d37p0vunc42msluc74g82m8j4buo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 12:21:20 -0800, "Marcello" <marcello@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>The guy is an awesome talent that doesn't seem to know how to handle the
>>media well.
>
> Yep. No argument there.
>
>> I don't think anyone is talking negatively about his abilities,
>>it is all about what he has said and done that has given some light into
>>his
>>attitude that people have a problem with. My question is why are so many
>>people in here so defensive about Bode as though he can do no wrong?
>>
>
> I don't think anybody has said, or even implied, that he "can do no
> wrong".
>
> It's just that those detracting him are going way OTT with it.
>
> Those who expected him to come home with several gold medals had way
> unrealistic expectations.

It was not about failed expectations. There is no shame in having high
expectations and failing, it happens every Olympics. What is seen as
shameful is his total disinterest in actually putting for 100%. He seems
proud that his way is to not give his all so he can have a good time
partying. This is not the Olympic Spirit. This is why some suggest it
would have been better to see a lesser quality skier who actually cared
about the competition. You can argue that this may not have been what he
was trying to present, and that the perception might not be true, but the
fact is the backlash is a result of this perception.


>
> A large majority of the competitors at the Olympics came home with no
> medals at all, including most of the US ski team. So why is it only
> Bode who is getting castigated?

Because the large majority didn't leave with the impression that they gave
less than 100%.


>
> If he deserves castigation for not living up to expectations, so do
> the others. Personally, I don't think any of them deserve it.

The only expectation he deserves it for is the expectation that he would
give it his all. Maybe he did, but this is not the impression he gave to
the public.

>
> Except *perhaps* Lindsey Jacobellis, for losing the gold due to
> showing off. But even that, although it was a stupid thing to do,
> does not deserve the level of criticism that Bode is getting.

She got her share of criticism. She also later took full responsibility for
her actions.


>
>>Are the apologists suggesting he hasn't said some dumb things that give
>>light into his attitude toward things, or are the apologists of the
>>position
>>that Bode is not saying what he believes to the public (or is not smart
>>enough to know how he is coming off in the public eye)?
>>
>
> I don't think so.
>
> They are just saying he doesn't deserve the type of criticism he is
> getting. The people who are saying he shouldn't have been there - Who
> else is there, that is doing better than him on the world cup circuit,
> but wasn't in the team? - Answer - Nobody.

It would seem most would rather see a lesser athlete who doesn't feel the
need to split his focus between the actual competition and the social scene.








27 Feb 2006 23:21:32
Alex Heney
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 22:21:00 GMT, lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com >
wrote:

>Alex Heney wrote:
>>
>> Except *perhaps* Lindsey Jacobellis, for losing the gold due to
>> showing off.
>
>She's going to be remembered.
>Like Jim Thorpe, who had all his medals rescinded for being poor and
>earning eating money.
>Or Karl Schranz who was disqualified by Brundage for using his choice of
>skis.
>
>It's hard to make a unique name for yourself, and she surely did.

True.

It will be a "what happened next" question on sports quizzes for many
years :-)
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
What do batteries run on?
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom


28 Feb 2006 00:10:25
lal_truckee
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Marcello wrote:
> What is seen as
> shameful is his total disinterest in actually putting for 100%.

I remain amused by your expertise. Now you can judge whether a racer is
"putting for [out?] 100% ?" Whether a racer is "interested?"

I saw a guy taking nightmarish chances in the DHs, and in the SG trying
to continue and win when any of us would have hit the surface
(deliberately) and tried to protect our knees. I saw a guy charging the
SLs going for a win and not just a top 10, and looking extremely
dejected and disappointed when he hooked. I saw from Bode Miller some of
the best, most complete, and most intense skiing offered in any forum. I
saw such an extreme effort come up short time and again, and then saw
the guy pull himself together and go right out in the next race and give
everything he's got all over again.

Do you have any kind of idea how close to knee shattering that recovery
attempt in the SG was? Not 100%? Ghod, that's dumb.

Maybe we're back to this: Have you raced? Do you know enough to judge
effort?

I'm getting tired of talking to proud know-nothings. And the weather is
getting colder, so the snow level is coming down. I'm going back out in
a day or so and ski powder the rest of the week. And when the powder
beats me down or I beat it down, I'm going to pull myself together and
give the crud 100% And if you know skiing you'll be able to see it in my
eyes. Or you can wait for a bad reporter filling his column inches with
false information to tell you how to feel about it. Come on out and have
some 100% ski fun.


27 Feb 2006 16:29:03
The Real Bev
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Listen to some 12-year-old girls arguing about whether Brad should marry
Angelina. Listen to them support their positions. Then listen to a couple of
middle-aged women arguing about something that happened on As The World Turns.
Then listen to yourselves...

Is it any wonder that the US news media concentrates on stories about
celebrities, even making them up if it's a slow day?

Jeez, guys, get a grip!

--
Cheers,
Bev
_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_|-_
Too many freaks, not enough circuses.


27 Feb 2006 16:28:53
Marcello
Re: Bode Apologists...why?


"lal_truckee" <lal_truckee@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:RxMMf.61448$PL5.25028@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Marcello wrote:
>> What is seen as shameful is his total disinterest in actually putting for
>> 100%.
>
> I remain amused by your expertise. Now you can judge whether a racer is
> "putting for [out?] 100% ?" Whether a racer is "interested?"



If you are going to clip out select parts of what I said to use them
completely out of context than shall we assume you are merely trying to
argue for the sake of arguing??? I specifically said...

"...and that the perception might not be true, but the fact is the
backlash is a result of this perception..."

which clearly implies to anyone with intelligence that I am not suggesting
that he didn't give 100%, just that the current perception is that he
didn't. SO, you either didn't have enough intelligence to comprehend the
obvious here or you are deliberately taking parts of my message out of
context to bolster your weak opinion. Either way, sad. I am sure you will
clip this part out as well.



> I saw a guy taking nightmarish chances in the DHs, and in the SG trying to
> continue and win when any of us would have hit the surface (deliberately)
> and tried to protect our knees. I saw a guy charging the SLs going for a
> win and not just a top 10, and looking extremely dejected and disappointed
> when he hooked. I saw from Bode Miller some of the best, most complete,
> and most intense skiing offered in any forum. I saw such an extreme effort
> come up short time and again, and then saw the guy pull himself together
> and go right out in the next race and give everything he's got all over
> again.

So your perception is different. Fine. You are missing the point that we
are talking about the public's perception due to his apparently poor media
skills.


>
> Do you have any kind of idea how close to knee shattering that recovery
> attempt in the SG was? Not 100%? Ghod, that's dumb.
>
> Maybe we're back to this: Have you raced? Do you know enough to judge
> effort?
>
> I'm getting tired of talking to proud know-nothings. And the weather is
> getting colder, so the snow level is coming down. I'm going back out in a
> day or so and ski powder the rest of the week. And when the powder beats
> me down or I beat it down, I'm going to pull myself together and give the
> crud 100% And if you know skiing you'll be able to see it in my eyes. Or
> you can wait for a bad reporter filling his column inches with false
> information to tell you how to feel about it. Come on out and have some
> 100% ski fun.


You should be getting tired of talking altogether since you have steered so
far off the topic. No one, especially me, is questioning his ability or his
effort, I merely commented on the public's current perception, and how he
has handled the media attention. Let me know if you want to get back on
track and talk about the subject at hand.




27 Feb 2006 16:43:52
Marty
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

I think Angelina should marry Bode. Seriously, I do. It would be
great for the sport. Kind of like the Lance and Sheryl fling. That
was good for cycling here in the US.
--
Marty



28 Feb 2006 00:44:11
lal_truckee
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Marcello wrote:
> I am not suggesting
> that he didn't give 100%, just that the current perception is that he
> didn't.

And yet you're the most vociferous poster here promoting that false
perception as fact. If you're not saying what you're saying, what are
you saying? Do you remember?

Go skiing, reinvigorate your perception.

And Bev - we're like, not totally like, "Listen to some 12-year-old
girls arguing about whether Brad should marry Angelina." We've got all
the words spelled correctly - even the big ones. Another category
altogether - whether it's a higher category is a separate question.


27 Feb 2006 17:06:51
The Real Bev
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Marty wrote:

> I think Angelina should marry Bode. Seriously, I do. It would be
> great for the sport. Kind of like the Lance and Sheryl fling. That
> was good for cycling here in the US.

Oh really? Then why did my saddle give me a blister on my ass? Two, actually...

--
Cheers,
Bev
O_________________________________________________O
"John Wayne toilet paper -- It's rough, it's tough,
and it don't take no crap from nobody."


27 Feb 2006 17:08:50
The Real Bev
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

lal_truckee wrote:

> Marcello wrote:
>> I am not suggesting
>> that he didn't give 100%, just that the current perception is that he
>> didn't.
>
> And yet you're the most vociferous poster here promoting that false
> perception as fact. If you're not saying what you're saying, what are
> you saying? Do you remember?
>
> Go skiing, reinvigorate your perception.
>
> And Bev - we're like, not totally like, "Listen to some 12-year-old
> girls arguing about whether Brad should marry Angelina." We've got all
> the words spelled correctly - even the big ones. Another category
> altogether - whether it's a higher category is a separate question.

Big deal. I spelled all the words correctly when I was 7. 6 too, probably, I
just wasn't paying attention.

--
Cheers,
Bev
O_________________________________________________O
"John Wayne toilet paper -- It's rough, it's tough,
and it don't take no crap from nobody."


28 Feb 2006 01:16:50
lal_truckee
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

The Real Bev wrote:
>
> Big deal. I spelled all the words correctly when I was 7. 6 too,
> probably, I just wasn't paying attention.
>
Well, it's a big deel to me...


27 Feb 2006 17:19:00
Marty
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

>> I think Angelina should marry Bode. Seriously, I do. It would be
>> great for the sport. Kind of like the Lance and Sheryl fling. That
>> was good for cycling here in the US.

> Oh really? Then why did my saddle give me a blister on my ass? Two, actually...

Assuming that Lance and Sheryl inspired you to ride many miles and you
got blisters from that, then I'd invest in a better pair of shorts and
some chamy creme and I'd keep riding. Maybe get a better saddle too?

If you were not riding and your saddle gave you blisters, well.....
you're not using it correctly.
--
Marty



27 Feb 2006 17:22:12
Marcello
Re: Bode Apologists...why?


"lal_truckee" <lal_truckee@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:v1NMf.61461$PL5.42424@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Marcello wrote:
>> I am not suggesting that he didn't give 100%, just that the current
>> perception is that he didn't.
>
> And yet you're the most vociferous poster here promoting that false
> perception as fact. If you're not saying what you're saying, what are you
> saying? Do you remember?
>

So the fact that I started the thread with, "The guy is an awesome
talent..." is seen by you as vociferous and promoting "false perception" by
you. Ok then.




28 Feb 2006 04:09:59
Mary Malmros
Re: Bode Apologists...why?



Marcello wrote:

> "lal_truckee" <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:RxMMf.61448$PL5.25028@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
[snip]
>>I saw a guy taking nightmarish chances in the DHs, and in the SG trying to
>>continue and win when any of us would have hit the surface (deliberately)
>>and tried to protect our knees. I saw a guy charging the SLs going for a
>>win and not just a top 10, and looking extremely dejected and disappointed
>>when he hooked. I saw from Bode Miller some of the best, most complete,
>>and most intense skiing offered in any forum. I saw such an extreme effort
>>come up short time and again, and then saw the guy pull himself together
>>and go right out in the next race and give everything he's got all over
>>again.
>
>
> So your perception is different. Fine. You are missing the point that we
> are talking about the public's perception due to his apparently poor media
> skills.

We are? I thought we were talking about _our_ perception. Since when
did this become rec.skiing.alpine.madison.avenue?

I understand what you're trying to say: that there are a lot of
dumbasses out there who don't know a ski from a fence slat who _may_
have this negative perception of Bode Miller. But so what? If he'd won
a handful of medals, they still would forget him in two weeks. They did
it after SLC; they never knew it when he was crowned the King of St.
Moritz; and they never knew it when he won the overall or discipline
titles. So why talk about Joe Sixpack's "perception" on a skiing
newsgroup? Here, of all places, we ought to be able to appreciate what
_really_ happened.



28 Feb 2006 04:11:01
Mary Malmros
Re: Bode Apologists...why?



The Real Bev wrote:

> Marty wrote:
>
>> I think Angelina should marry Bode. Seriously, I do. It would be
>> great for the sport. Kind of like the Lance and Sheryl fling. That
>> was good for cycling here in the US.
>
>
> Oh really? Then why did my saddle give me a blister on my ass? Two,
> actually...

Uhhhh, wrong saddle? What are you using?



27 Feb 2006 20:26:49
The Real Bev
Re: Bode Apologists...why?

Mary Malmros wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>> Marty wrote:
>>
>>> I think Angelina should marry Bode. Seriously, I do. It would be
>>> great for the sport. Kind of like the Lance and Sheryl fling. That
>>> was good for cycling here in the US.
>>
>> Oh really? Then why did my saddle give me a blister on my ass? Two,
>> actually...
>
> Uhhhh, wrong saddle? What are you using?

A Terry clone. Good saddle, I just happened to be wearing undies with thick
elastic in the legs. The no-undies rule is NOT appropriate for women no
matter what they say. When I got the first one I rotated the seat away from
it, which gave me the second one :-(

TMI?

--
Cheers, Bev
===============================================================
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely and in a
well preserved body, but to skid in sideways, totally worn out,
and shouting HOLY SHIT!!! WHAT A RIDE!!!