29 Jan 2005 00:59:37
Grumman-581
Canada Tank Valves

Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US does?
Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a replacement
valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be
rather overpriced...




29 Jan 2005 09:47:27
Rudy Benner
Re: Canada Tank Valves

Yes. Same as US.

"Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net > wrote in message
news:xAGKd.18969$vJ5.1304@fe07.lga...
> Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US
> does?
> Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a replacement
> valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be
> rather overpriced...
>
>




29 Jan 2005 19:12:31
Firewalker
Re: Canada Tank Valves


We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still live
in igloos.

It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.


"Rudy Benner" <bennerREMOVE@personainternet.com > wrote in message
news:10vn8gm3k0l3f44@corp.supernews.com...
> Yes. Same as US.
>
> "Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:xAGKd.18969$vJ5.1304@fe07.lga...
>> Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US
>> does?
>> Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a
>> replacement
>> valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be
>> rather overpriced...
>>
>>
>
>




29 Jan 2005 19:50:11
Cam
Re: Canada Tank Valves

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:12:31 GMT, "Firewalker"
<firewalker2222@hotmail.com > wroat:

>
>We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still live
>in igloos.
>
>It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
>Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.
>
>
>"Rudy Benner" <bennerREMOVE@personainternet.com> wrote in message
>news:10vn8gm3k0l3f44@corp.supernews.com...
>> Yes. Same as US.
>>
>> "Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net> wrote in message
>> news:xAGKd.18969$vJ5.1304@fe07.lga...
>>> Does Canada use the same threads on their SCUBA tank valves as the US
>>> does?
>>> Or do they use the M25-2 thread like Europe? I need to find a
>>> replacement
>>> valve for one of my Spiro tanks and shipping from Europe appears to be
>>> rather overpriced...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Hey Firewalker, don't be a jerk. It was a fair question. We use the
metric system like Europe does. It could have been possible that we
use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking which standard we use is hardly
an insult to your igloo.

Cam


29 Jan 2005 14:09:32
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Firewalker" wrote ...
> We also have running water

But that is only during the warm months when your igloos are melting, right?
<grin >

> It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
> Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.

Awh, come on now, is it so odd that someone wouldn't know which valve thread
was being used in Canada? You use the metric system, right? Your
temperatures are quoted in Celcius and your distances in kilometers... There
was definitely a chance that perhaps you were using the M25x2 threads on
tanks instead of the 3/4"-14 NPSM threads... Hell, most divers probably
don't even know what type threads are on their valves...




29 Jan 2005 14:19:46
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Cam" wrote ...
> It could have been possible that we
> use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking
> which standard we use is hardly
> an insult to your igloo.

Correct... Asking if it was required that all regulators in Canada be
certified for ice diving and tanks have polar bear exclusion devices on them
might be though... <grin >

Strange that Canada would embrace the metric system in apparently everything
else and still have tanks that were in English units... I guess it's kind of
like working on American cars these days... It's not good enough to have a
full set of SAE wrenches, you sometimes come across metric bolts also... And
for everything else, there's always the adjustable end wrench or a pair of
vise grips... <grin >




29 Jan 2005 20:31:40
Cam
Re: Canada Tank Valves

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 14:19:46 -0600, "Grumman-581"
<grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net > wroat:

>"Cam" wrote ...
>> It could have been possible that we
>> use Euro tank fittings as well. Asking
>> which standard we use is hardly
>> an insult to your igloo.
>
>Correct... Asking if it was required that all regulators in Canada be
>certified for ice diving and tanks have polar bear exclusion devices on them
>might be though... <grin>
>
>Strange that Canada would embrace the metric system in apparently everything
>else and still have tanks that were in English units... I guess it's kind of
>like working on American cars these days... It's not good enough to have a
>full set of SAE wrenches, you sometimes come across metric bolts also... And
>for everything else, there's always the adjustable end wrench or a pair of
>vise grips... <grin>
>

Just last week I needed a pair of metric vise grips to adjust my
muffler bearings.


29 Jan 2005 16:47:20
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Cam" wrote ...
> Just last week I needed a pair of metric vise grips to adjust my
> muffler bearings.

Awh, hell, those are *easy* to find... Try finding a squeegee sharpener...




30 Jan 2005 15:57:00
Dag Deberitz
Re: Canada Tank Valves


"Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net > wrote in message
news:g9SKd.23163$C87.16510@fe07.lga...
> "Firewalker" wrote ...
>> We also have running water
>
> But that is only during the warm months when your igloos are melting,
> right?
> <grin>
>
>> It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
>> Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.
>
> Awh, come on now, is it so odd that someone wouldn't know which valve
> thread
> was being used in Canada? You use the metric system, right? Your
> temperatures are quoted in Celcius and your distances in kilometers...
> There
> was definitely a chance that perhaps you were using the M25x2 threads on
> tanks instead of the 3/4"-14 NPSM threads... Hell, most divers probably
> don't even know what type threads are on their valves...
>
>

- And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several
accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into
R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle if
the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above.
--
Best regards
Divepartner Diving School & rubber dinghy workshop
Dag Deberitz
dagbritzDELETE@online.no
Stavern - Norway

Dive-o-phone": (+47) 922 35777
Visit my albums containing diving, travelling cats & others:
http://community.webshots.com/user/busdiver_/
Concerning older faulty aluminium alloys in diving tanks:
http://www.scubabomb.freeservers.com/Scubadag.htm
!/
(@ @)
----oOO-(_)-OOo------------OOOO0000oooo...._([;]@-[=<
All evt. enclosures and the mailbody itself are scanned with the latest
update of Trend Micro(Tm) PC-cillin(Tm) Internet Security11




30 Jan 2005 12:29:42
Patrick
Re: Canada Tank Valves


"Firewalker" <firewalker2222@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:zeRKd.77293$Qb.48755@edtnps89...
>
> We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still
> live in igloos.
>
> It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
> Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.

Soooooooooo........the blocks on your igloos are cubic yards or cubic
meters??




30 Jan 2005 10:13:38
Greg Mossman
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Dag Deberitz" <dagbritzDELETE@online.no.INVALID > wrote in message
news:1B6Ld.6663$IW4.142491@news2.e.nsc.no...

> - And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several
> accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into
> R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle
> if the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above.

That's why we always use a separate igloo for filling tanks. In case of an
accident, the flying valve bounces harmlessly from ice block to ice block.




31 Jan 2005 00:07:07
Dillon Pyron
Re: Canada Tank Valves

Thus spake "Patrick" <josemanuda@hotmail.com > :

>
>"Firewalker" <firewalker2222@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:zeRKd.77293$Qb.48755@edtnps89...
>>
>> We also have running water, shopping malls, and only a few of us still
>> live in igloos.
>>
>> It's always amazing to realize how little (most) Americans know about
>> Canada, and the rest of the world. Sad, really.
>
>Soooooooooo........the blocks on your igloos are cubic yards or cubic
>meters??
>

You measure volume in liters. Or litres, as the Brits are want to
say.

--
dillon

"When the French are against it, you know we can't
be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman


01 Feb 2005 03:36:10
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Dag Deberitz" wrote ...
> - And the result of not knowing this have been the cause of several
> accidents during the last years of people that have put M25x2 valves into
> R3/4" thread-bottles (it is possible) but the valve will leave the bottle
if
> the tank pressure exceeds 180BAR's and above.

Good enough for the old low pressure steel 72s, I guess then... <grin >

I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very
nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems
that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned
close to each other... Of course, the 3/4"-14 valves will not even start to
screw into the M25 cylinder... So, technically, the M25 cylinder *could* be
tapped out to accept the 3/4"-14 valve, but since that would be decreasing
the neck thickness on the tank (ever so slightly), one would have to wonder
if this might unacceptably weaken it... Personally, I'm not all that crazy
about that idea... Even less crazy about it than just putting an adapter in
each of the tanks and using normal 3/4"-14 valves...

Any of you Euro rec.scuba readers know of a Spiro 200 or 232 bar modular
valve (preferrably with the knob on the right when facing the valve opening)
for sale? The isolation bar would also be nice to have... Here's a photo of
my valve... I have one good one and one dented one, but they're both
lefthanded valves like in the photo...

http://webpages.charter.net/grumman581/spiro-valve-before-shipment.jpg

One thing that I noticed is that the Spiro valve is marked as 200 bar, but
the tanks are marked as 230 bar...






01 Feb 2005 12:34:43
Matthias Voss
Re: Canada Tank Valves

Grumman-581 wrote:

> I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very
> nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems
> that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned
> close to each other...

Yep.
Unfortunate for some, it will/can bind up to a pressure of 150 bar.




> Any of you Euro rec.scuba readers know of a Spiro 200 or 232 bar modular
> valve (preferrably with the knob on the right when facing the valve opening)
> for sale? The isolation bar would also be nice to have... Here's a photo of
> my valve... I have one good one and one dented one, but they're both
> lefthanded valves like in the photo...
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/grumman581/spiro-valve-before-shipment.jpg


They come in lefthand and righthand, one has lefthand threads, one
righthand ones to the isolation bar. These should be M16x1 threads, old
ones with one, newer ones with 2 barrel O-rings on each side.


> One thing that I noticed is that the Spiro valve is marked as 200 bar, but
> the tanks are marked as 230 bar...

Don't worry...

So you need these valve/manifold with metric or BSP threads?

Matthias



01 Feb 2005 04:11:33
pugetsounddiver@gmail.com
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net > wrote in message
news:naILd.5585$eu5.4151@fe07.lga...

> I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit
very
> nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it
seems
> that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty
damned
> close to each other... Of course, the 3/4"-14 valves will not even
start to
> screw into the M25 cylinder... So, technically, the M25 cylinder
*could* be
> tapped out to accept the 3/4"-14 valve, but since that would be
decreasing
> the neck thickness on the tank (ever so slightly), one would have to
wonder
> if this might unacceptably weaken it... Personally, I'm not all that
crazy
> about that idea... Even less crazy about it than just putting an
adapter in
> each of the tanks and using normal 3/4"-14 valves...

You scare the shit out of me when you talk like that.

I'll send you dimensions for both when I get home from work, or post
them here if you like.

See if you can catch me at around 10:00 my time, or I'll try and call
your cell, if the madness is at a low rumble today and I manage to
remember.



01 Feb 2005 07:58:53
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

<pugetsounddiver@gmail.com > wrote ...
> You scare the shit out of me when you talk like that.

I'm just pointing out the various theoretical options even if they are ones
that I would not consider... It helps prevent people asking if I had
considered a particular option that I might have already considered and
dismissed...

As far as the adapter goes, I've actually seen an old steel tank that had an
adapter in it that converted it to something for a normal valve... I seem to
remember that it was a 1959 stamped tank and the adapter looked like it
converted from a tapered thread to a straight pipe thread like we use on
tanks these days... I seriously doubt that this adapter was removed that
often... Actually, the adapter was brass / bronze...

The adapter that I had made for the hydro test probably added an inch to the
height of the tank neck... It would work, but the debris tube would not be
able to be used since the hole in the adapter is at the center and the hole
in the valve for the debris tube is off-center... I'm just not all that
crazy about adding another O-ring into the system as a possible (although
probably highly unlikely) failure point...

> I'll send you dimensions for both when I get home from work, or post
> them here if you like.

Yeah, it would be interesting to see how close the threads on the two valves
really are... I just screwed them in finger tight -- just to the point where
the slightest bit of resistance was being felt... I didn't want to damage
the threads of either the old steel-72 or the FedEx damaged valve since it
was going to have to go back into the steel-120 until I can find a
replacement valve...

> See if you can catch me at around 10:00 my time, or I'll try and call
> your cell, if the madness is at a low rumble today and I manage to
> remember.

Thanks to a project and paper that Kaitlyn had due for school today, I've
been up all night acting as editor for her paper... It was *supposed* to
have been a fairly short paper -- she wrote a fuckin' book! My sleep
schedule is now totally fucked... I trying to decide if I should just try to
stay awake for the rest of the day or crash out before I walk into a wall...
Right now, I don't think I'll be up for another 4 hours though...




01 Feb 2005 16:41:02
mike gray
Re: Canada Tank Valves

Grumman-581 wrote:

>
> As far as the adapter goes, I've actually seen an old steel tank that had an
> adapter in it that converted it to something for a normal valve... I seem to
> remember that it was a 1959 stamped tank and the adapter looked like it
> converted from a tapered thread to a straight pipe thread like we use on
> tanks these days... I seriously doubt that this adapter was removed that
> often... Actually, the adapter was brass / bronze...

I don't know the proper thread designations, but the war surplus
high pressure tanks came in 38 cf, 60 cf, or 90 cf, all at 1800
psi. The 90s were used with a plumberís fitting, I think to
reduce the one inch straight thread to a half-inch tapered
thread, same as the Aqua Lung J or K valve. Is that right?

The smaller tanks were usually doubled with a manifold
connecting the original valves.

m


01 Feb 2005 15:01:37
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"mike gray" wrote ...
> I don't know the proper thread designations, but the war surplus
> high pressure tanks came in 38 cf, 60 cf, or 90 cf, all at 1800
> psi. The 90s were used with a plumberís fitting, I think to
> reduce the one inch straight thread to a half-inch tapered
> thread, same as the Aqua Lung J or K valve. Is that right?

1800 psi sounds about right... I remember noticing that it was a bit less
than the service pressure rating on my steel-72s... I have no idea what the
actual threads were though... I just saw it and thought that it was an
interesting bit of dive history... I believe the tank was still in hydro...




01 Feb 2005 21:43:00
Al Wells
Re: Canada Tank Valves

In article <naILd.5585$eu5.4151@fe07.lga >, grumman581-YYYY-
MM@charter.net says...
> I checked it out after you posted this and yeah, the M25x2 will fit very
> nicely into the 3/4"-14 tanks... The threads don't even bind, so it seems
> that the thread pitch between the M25x2 and the 3/4"x14 are pretty damned
> close to each other...

The owner of a dive shop in cave country was seriously injured filling a
M25X2 tank with a 3/4" NPSM valve in it in 1996. y'all need to be
careful with this stuff...


01 Feb 2005 15:54:23
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Al Wells" wrote ...
> The owner of a dive shop in cave country was seriously injured filling a
> M25X2 tank with a 3/4" NPSM valve in it in 1996.

You sure it wasn't the other way around? When I tried it out the other day,
the M25x2 valve would fit nicely into the 3/4"-14 tank, but the 3/4"-14
valve would not even start screwing into the M25x2 tank...

> y'all need to be careful with this stuff...

Agreed... No one is proposing actually doing this on filled tanks, it's just
a discussion of the similarity of the threads... A 1 lb or so object
propelled by 2000+ psi could do some damage...I wouldn't want to be standing
over the tank during that fill...





01 Feb 2005 23:05:23
Al Wells
Re: Canada Tank Valves

In article <P_SLd.12$uc6.1@fe07.lga >, grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net
says...
> You sure it wasn't the other way around? When I tried it out the other day,
> the M25x2 valve would fit nicely into the 3/4"-14 tank, but the 3/4"-14
> valve would not even start screwing into the M25x2 tank...

Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and 3/4" threads



01 Feb 2005 18:49:23
Grumman-581
Re: Canada Tank Valves

"Al Wells" wrote ...
> Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and
> 3/4" threads

Yep, a dangerous combination one way, a total non-issue the other way... The
3/4"-14 valve will not even start in the M25 tank neck... Can't even get a
single thread to catch, so I would have to call it a non-issue...




01 Feb 2005 17:14:04
Scott
Re: Canada Tank Valves


"Grumman-581" <grumman581-YYYY-MM@charter.net > wrote in message
news:VyVLd.62$vP.10@fe07.lga...
> "Al Wells" wrote ...
> > Probably was, I only remember it involved the M25 and
> > 3/4" threads
>
> Yep, a dangerous combination one way, a total non-issue the other way...
The
> 3/4"-14 valve will not even start in the M25 tank neck... Can't even get a
> single thread to catch, so I would have to call it a non-issue...

Fuck.

I spaced getting the thread specs.

Tomorrow.

Maybe.