31 Oct 2004 03:52:31
mike gray
Boynton Dive Report

Captain Lynn is back at the helm of Splashdown.

Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).

No hurricane damage but a lot of the growth has been swept off the upper
portions of the wreck. Lots of bluebells coming back, though. Resident
jewfish checked out all the divers. Dan V. had my bugging gear, so I
also had to catch a bug for him. Some spectacular Spondylus down inside,
time for a collecting trip. Played with a large Ophioderma and a giant
carrier shell. The prop still turns by hand after all these years.

Second dive was Delray ledge, the usual morays, nurses, turkles, bugs.
Looking like it could be a big octopus season, finding a lot of middens
lately. Delray is at the southern end of the system and was far less
affected by the hurricanes than the northern end. No trash, all the
gorgonions, soft sponges, sea fans lush and in place.

Side note: The Lake Worth fishing pier was totalled and now lies atop
the wreck of the pier blown down in the 1946 (?) hurricane. According to
Volker, Lake Worth is not interested in rebuilding it and he has
suggested to officials that is should be left as a shore dive/snorkel
spot. I think it's about 20' deep at the end. Should be well stocked
with lost fishing tackle and giant bugs. No one has ever dove there, too
many fisherdudes throwing chum and dangling sharp things in the water.
Stay tuned for further developments.

m



31 Oct 2004 12:43:25
Dave
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > wrote in message
news:3kZgd.46944$OD2.21191@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Captain Lynn is back at the helm of Splashdown.
>
> Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).
>
> No hurricane damage but a lot of the growth has been swept off the upper
> portions of the wreck. Lots of bluebells coming back, though. Resident
> jewfish checked out all the divers. Dan V. had my bugging gear, so I
> also had to catch a bug for him. Some spectacular Spondylus down inside,
> time for a collecting trip. Played with a large Ophioderma and a giant
> carrier shell. The prop still turns by hand after all these years.
>
> Second dive was Delray ledge, the usual morays, nurses, turkles, bugs.
> Looking like it could be a big octopus season, finding a lot of middens
> lately. Delray is at the southern end of the system and was far less
> affected by the hurricanes than the northern end. No trash, all the
> gorgonions, soft sponges, sea fans lush and in place.
>
> Side note: The Lake Worth fishing pier was totalled and now lies atop
> the wreck of the pier blown down in the 1946 (?) hurricane. According to
> Volker, Lake Worth is not interested in rebuilding it and he has
> suggested to officials that is should be left as a shore dive/snorkel
> spot. I think it's about 20' deep at the end. Should be well stocked
> with lost fishing tackle and giant bugs. No one has ever dove there, too
> many fisherdudes throwing chum and dangling sharp things in the water.
> Stay tuned for further developments.
>
>
Let me know if you plan on exploring it. I'm there!

Limey.




31 Oct 2004 08:49:16
H. Huntzinger
Re: Boynton Dive Report

mike gray <scrubadub@att.net > wrote:

Nice report, Mike.

> Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).

FWIW, what does the water temp get down to in the February timeframe?


-hh


31 Oct 2004 16:26:46
mike gray
Re: Boynton Dive Report

H. Huntzinger wrote:

> mike gray <scrubadub@att.net> wrote:
>
> Nice report, Mike.
>
>> Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).
>
> FWIW, what does the water temp get down to in the February timeframe?

About 73 degrees, too cold for human divers. We use ROVs with hi-tech
surface supply warmers to keep the electronics working.

m



31 Oct 2004 11:30:10
Rudy Benner
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > wrote in message
news:an8hd.48671$OD2.14102@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> H. Huntzinger wrote:
>
>> mike gray <scrubadub@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Nice report, Mike.
>>
>>> Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).
>>
>> FWIW, what does the water temp get down to in the February timeframe?
>
> About 73 degrees, too cold for human divers. We use ROVs with hi-tech
> surface supply warmers to keep the electronics working.
>
> m
>

73, just right for a shorty.




31 Oct 2004 16:53:57
Al Wells
Re: Boynton Dive Report

In article <an8hd.48671$OD2.14102@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
scrubadub@att.net says...
> About 73 degrees, too cold for human divers. We use ROVs with hi-tech
> surface supply warmers to keep the electronics working.

Damn, that's drysuit water.


31 Oct 2004 12:18:26
Rudy Benner
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"Al Wells" <al.wells@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:MPG.1beee29bafe17c2e98970f@news.verizon.net...
> In article <an8hd.48671$OD2.14102@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> scrubadub@att.net says...
>> About 73 degrees, too cold for human divers. We use ROVs with hi-tech
>> surface supply warmers to keep the electronics working.
>
> Damn, that's drysuit water.

A couple of years ago, I showed up at Gilboa, suited up in my shorty and
everyone thought I was nuts. I saw a lot of drysuits there and a few
wetsuits. Everyone was using hoods and gloves too. I was just fine, except
down at the Tubes.

Anything over 80 is ok for T shirt and shorts.

R.




31 Oct 2004 18:36:05
markz
Re: Boynton Dive Report

Hm, before I read your complete report, one quick question. 79 degrees cold
as hell? If my converters dont deceive me, that is 26 degrees celsius. Are
you being sarcastic, did you make a mistake when writing the temperature or
do we live in different planets? Where I have dived so far, I am lucky if
the sea is at 20 degrees celsius xD
markzzz


"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > escribió en el mensaje
news:3kZgd.46944$OD2.21191@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Captain Lynn is back at the helm of Splashdown.
>
> Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).
>
> No hurricane damage but a lot of the growth has been swept off the upper
> portions of the wreck. Lots of bluebells coming back, though. Resident
> jewfish checked out all the divers. Dan V. had my bugging gear, so I
> also had to catch a bug for him. Some spectacular Spondylus down inside,
> time for a collecting trip. Played with a large Ophioderma and a giant
> carrier shell. The prop still turns by hand after all these years.
>
> Second dive was Delray ledge, the usual morays, nurses, turkles, bugs.
> Looking like it could be a big octopus season, finding a lot of middens
> lately. Delray is at the southern end of the system and was far less
> affected by the hurricanes than the northern end. No trash, all the
> gorgonions, soft sponges, sea fans lush and in place.
>
> Side note: The Lake Worth fishing pier was totalled and now lies atop
> the wreck of the pier blown down in the 1946 (?) hurricane. According to
> Volker, Lake Worth is not interested in rebuilding it and he has
> suggested to officials that is should be left as a shore dive/snorkel
> spot. I think it's about 20' deep at the end. Should be well stocked
> with lost fishing tackle and giant bugs. No one has ever dove there, too
> many fisherdudes throwing chum and dangling sharp things in the water.
> Stay tuned for further developments.
>
> m
>




31 Oct 2004 19:51:30
mike gray
Re: Boynton Dive Report

markz wrote:
> Hm, before I read your complete report, one quick question. 79 degrees cold
> as hell? If my converters dont deceive me, that is 26 degrees celsius. Are
> you being sarcastic, did you make a mistake when writing the temperature or
> do we live in different planets? Where I have dived so far, I am lucky if
> the sea is at 20 degrees celsius xD

Moi? Sarcastic?

I have done extensive research on the question and have yet to find a
confirmed report of any diver surviving immersion in less than 67
degreees F.

m



31 Oct 2004 22:28:10
TonyP
Re: Boynton Dive Report

mike gray wrote:

> markz wrote:
>
>> Hm, before I read your complete report, one quick question. 79 degrees
>> cold as hell? If my converters dont deceive me, that is 26 degrees
>> celsius. Are you being sarcastic, did you make a mistake when writing
>> the temperature or do we live in different planets? Where I have dived
>> so far, I am lucky if the sea is at 20 degrees celsius xD

> Moi? Sarcastic?
>
> I have done extensive research on the question and have yet to find a
> confirmed report of any diver surviving immersion in less than 67
> degreees F.

Dove wetsuit (7mm Oneill) for several years in the diving in the
LI/NY/NJ wreck valley area. Been in water 45 degrees. It was "ok", but
it was real tough putting back on the frozen wetsuit for another dive.
But then, I was younger and dive dry now. Water temp 40 degrees.



01 Nov 2004 02:03:02
Curtis
Re: Boynton Dive Report

"mike gray" wrote

> markz wrote:
>> Hm, before I read your complete report, one quick question. 79 degrees
>> cold as hell? If my converters dont deceive me, that is 26 degrees
>> celsius. Are you being sarcastic, did you make a mistake when writing the
>> temperature or do we live in different planets? Where I have dived so
>> far, I am lucky if the sea is at 20 degrees celsius xD
>
> Moi? Sarcastic?

> I have done extensive research on the question and have yet to find a
> confirmed report of any diver surviving immersion in less than 67 degreees
> F.

&

> FWIW, what does the water temp get down to in the February timeframe?

About 73 degrees, too cold for human divers. We use ROVs with hi-tech
surface supply warmers to keep the electronics working.


Hmmmmm, well put me in for 2 tee shirt & swim shorts dives, unpadded
ALBP, well over an hour in the water each time, swimming in the shadow zone,
water temp 73 deg. :-P

Curtis




31 Oct 2004 17:41:47
Greg Mossman
Re: Boynton Dive Report

"TonyP" <arpierre@optonline.net > wrote in message
news:_Fdhd.266$6z2.136174@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...

> Dove wetsuit (7mm Oneill) for several years in the diving in the LI/NY/NJ
> wreck valley area. Been in water 45 degrees. It was "ok", but it was real
> tough putting back on the frozen wetsuit for another dive. But then, I was
> younger and dive dry now. Water temp 40 degrees.

I apologize to you Tony. Here I was insensitively calling you a moron when
you're clearly just disabled, having suffered brain damage from extensive
immersion in cold water and resultant frostbite to the medulla oblangata.
From now on I shall now refer to you as 'mentally challenged'.

Did you see the light at the end of the tunnel when you were frozen?




01 Nov 2004 02:34:40
Grumman-581
Re: Boynton Dive Report

"Greg Mossman" wrote ...
> I apologize to you Tony. Here I was insensitively calling you a moron
when
> you're clearly just disabled, having suffered brain damage from extensive
> immersion in cold water and resultant frostbite to the medulla oblangata.
> From now on I shall now refer to you as 'mentally challenged'.

Damn Tony... I didn't know that you had become a democrat... <snicker >




01 Nov 2004 10:52:32
markz
Re: Boynton Dive Report

wow, you guys are lucky. Here in Spain, in the mediterranean (not the
atlantic where it's even colder), in summer you can expect a constant 70
degrees F on the surface and a minimum of 60 when you are 20 metres under.
Last weekend when I went diving, we had about 65 on the surface, and reached
25 metres underwater, where the temperature was 57 degrees F. In the first
dive I only used the full body part of my cressi Lontra (5mm), and I
F$&**ing froze. On the rest of them I used also the other one on top (called
shorty here, I'm not sure in english), and I was fine... Still, diving at
the temperature you describe seems like paradise to me!
markzzz


"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > escribió en el mensaje
news:6nbhd.49282$OD2.41818@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> markz wrote:
>> Hm, before I read your complete report, one quick question. 79 degrees
>> cold
>> as hell? If my converters dont deceive me, that is 26 degrees celsius.
>> Are
>> you being sarcastic, did you make a mistake when writing the temperature
>> or
>> do we live in different planets? Where I have dived so far, I am lucky if
>> the sea is at 20 degrees celsius xD
>
> Moi? Sarcastic?
>
> I have done extensive research on the question and have yet to find a
> confirmed report of any diver surviving immersion in less than 67
> degreees F.
>
> m
>




01 Nov 2004 09:03:52
bullshark
Re: Boynton Dive Report

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:52:31 GMT, mike gray <scrubadub@att.net > wrote:

>Captain Lynn is back at the helm of Splashdown.
>
>Dove the Bud, no current, great viz, but cold as hell (79 degrees!).
>
>No hurricane damage but a lot of the growth has been swept off the upper

Saturday we dove Grouper hole outside, then did Table tops proper for the
first time since the hurricanes. We've dived every weekend since the 'canes, but didn't
get around to Tables tops till now. Predictably, Tabletops and it's cross-current strands have
caught everything on the reef that was ever loose.

Sunday we dived with Captain Lynn on the Splashdown and went to Horseshoe and
Casino. In another post mike, you said Horseshoe was filled in. Whoever told you that
was sorely mistaken. If anything, I think it has been scoured out and deepened slightly.
This is also generally true for the 100 meters or so of the inside ledge to the South of
Horseshoe. The deep water gorgonians that were so lush are mostly gone. This is most
apparent on the North arm. There are lots of stalks and stumps left, and they appear to
be growing, so it will come back. The shoals of grunts and snappers that were typical there
still are, but not quite the way they were. All in all, I expected much worse and was pleasantly
surprised. Horseshoe is a great dive.

Too bad about the water temperatures. We and everyone else had solid 82's all weekend.
Maybe you should get rid of that crappy hockey puck and get something that works.

Captain Lynn is still the best boat driver anywhere. Her drops are on the money, and
for pickups, you just snooze on the surface until you hear the (recently rebuilt) motors
and the dive platform will be at arms length.

The shelling in both areas is fantastic. If anyone ever wanted Lettered Olives, the
Western "edge" of Horseshoe (the mouth) is positively awash with them. Big ones,
little ones, fat ones skinny ones, they are legion. Along with them are all kinds of other
fancy shells, tulips and spindles and whelks...all kinds of stuff. We just didn't have
enough time or buoyancy to get them all.

safe diving,

bullshark


01 Nov 2004 14:17:48
mike gray
Re: Boynton Dive Report

bullshark wrote:

> Sunday we dived with Captain Lynn on the Splashdown and went to Horseshoe and
> Casino. In another post mike, you said Horseshoe was filled in. Whoever told you that
> was sorely mistaken. If anything, I think it has been scoured out and deepened slightly.
> This is also generally true for the 100 meters or so of the inside ledge to the South of
> Horseshoe. The deep water gorgonians that were so lush are mostly gone. This is most
> apparent on the North arm. There are lots of stalks and stumps left, and they appear to
> be growing, so it will come back. The shoals of grunts and snappers that were typical there
> still are, but not quite the way they were. All in all, I expected much worse and was pleasantly
> surprised. Horseshoe is a great dive.

Glad to hear that. My comments on Horseshoe were second hand.

> Too bad about the water temperatures. We and everyone else had solid 82's all weekend.
> Maybe you should get rid of that crappy hockey puck and get something that works.

An optimistic gauge doesn't make me any warmer.

m




01 Nov 2004 18:10:07
David Gintz
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"mike gray" <scrubadub@att.net > wrote in message
news:gArhd.52362$OD2.39262@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> bullshark wrote:
>
>> Sunday we dived with Captain Lynn on the Splashdown and went to Horseshoe
>> and
>> Casino. In another post mike, you said Horseshoe was filled in. Whoever
>> told you that
>> was sorely mistaken. If anything, I think it has been scoured out and
>> deepened slightly.
>> This is also generally true for the 100 meters or so of the inside ledge
>> to the South of
>> Horseshoe. The deep water gorgonians that were so lush are mostly gone.
>> This is most apparent on the North arm. There are lots of stalks and
>> stumps left, and they appear to be growing, so it will come back. The
>> shoals of grunts and snappers that were typical there still are, but not
>> quite the way they were. All in all, I expected much worse and was
>> pleasantly surprised. Horseshoe is a great dive.
>
> Glad to hear that. My comments on Horseshoe were second hand.
>
>> Too bad about the water temperatures. We and everyone else had solid 82's
>> all weekend.
>> Maybe you should get rid of that crappy hockey puck and get something
>> that works.
>
> An optimistic gauge doesn't make me any warmer.
>
> m
>
>

Glad to hear that Lynn is doing well and that the diving is still good down
there. With our local water moving below the 50 degree mark, I'm beginning
to think of making a trip down there to dive with you folks.

- David




02 Nov 2004 01:04:05
TonyP
Re: Boynton Dive Report

Greg Mossman wrote:

> "TonyP" <arpierre@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:_Fdhd.266$6z2.136174@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...

>>Dove wetsuit (7mm Oneill) for several years in the diving in the LI/NY/NJ
>>wreck valley area. Been in water 45 degrees. It was "ok", but it was real
>>tough putting back on the frozen wetsuit for another dive. But then, I was
>>younger and dive dry now. Water temp 40 degrees.

> I apologize to you Tony. Here I was insensitively calling you a moron when
> you're clearly just disabled, having suffered brain damage from extensive
> immersion in cold water and resultant frostbite to the medulla oblangata.
> From now on I shall now refer to you as 'mentally challenged'.

It wasn't really THAT cold. I am a cool/cold weather person. I hate
temps from mid 70's and above. Anything in the 90's is anguish. My brain
functions are fine. Look, I have soundly beaten you at every turn. So,
even IF my cognitive functions weren't 100%, they are more than able to
handle you. What you meant to say is that when you engage in a
conversation with me, YOU are mentally challenged, but, decidely
woefully inadequate.

> Did you see the light at the end of the tunnel when you were frozen?

No... but the heater on the boat sure looked good.
>



02 Nov 2004 01:13:33
TonyP
Re: Boynton Dive Report

Grumman-581 wrote:

> "Greg Mossman" wrote ...
>
>>I apologize to you Tony. Here I was insensitively calling you a moron
>
> when
>
>>you're clearly just disabled, having suffered brain damage from extensive
>>immersion in cold water and resultant frostbite to the medulla oblangata.
>>From now on I shall now refer to you as 'mentally challenged'.
>
>
> Damn Tony... I didn't know that you had become a democrat... <snicker>

Yeah... once, way back when, I was. Even voted for George McGovern. I
thought the dems were for us pot smoking anti war people. You know,
legalize the "stuff". But then, I grew up and became responsible and
turned conservative. I am an idependent. I have voted for dems and
repubs. Living in Queens, I voted for Floyd Flake (D-Queens). He did a
lot of good in the community that you can actually see. Of course, he is
a Reverend of Allen A.M.E. church in Jamaica, Queens. Even Bubba has
stopped by to speak. I thought Carter would be a good President. Was I
wrong on that one. Ed Koch was good for NY. After that, voted Republican
for President (even Bob Dole over Clinton). Now, voting for Bush.
I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that belives
in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
running the show.



01 Nov 2004 20:39:36
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"TonyP" <arpierre@hooptonline.net > wrote in message
news:1bBhd.7961$6z2.3932426@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Now, voting for Bush.
> I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that belives
> in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
> running the show.
>
Please follow this and explain.

We know that no military unit can stand up to a nuclear blast.
While bush chose to go after an already beaten Iraq, his Pakistani allys
supplied Korea and Iran with nuclear technology that is possibly and
probably now turned into weaponry.
How can you possibly say he has strengthened our military?




02 Nov 2004 03:23:46
Lee Bell
Re: Boynton Dive Report

<keysclub@bellsouth.net > wrote

>> Now, voting for Bush.
>> I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that belives
>> in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
>> running the show.

> How can you possibly say he has strengthened our military?

He didn't say he strengthened anything. He said it would be weak if Kerry
were running the show.




01 Nov 2004 23:43:33
Re: Boynton Dive Report


"Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com > wrote in message
news:65Dhd.16699$ta5.859@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> <keysclub@bellsouth.net> wrote
>
> >> Now, voting for Bush.
> >> I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that
belives
> >> in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
> >> running the show.
>
> > How can you possibly say he has strengthened our military?
>
> He didn't say he strengthened anything. He said it would be weak if Kerry
> were running the show.
>
All bush has shown is that he was willing to sacrifice Americans and a few
planes and buildings.
Then he showed the world that, as a people, after ages of civilized
enlightenment we could be conned into accepting the bombing of innocent
woman and children in the name of Christ.
All he has shown the world is our weakness, not what really makes America
strong and great..




02 Nov 2004 09:52:33
Lee Bell
Re: Boynton Dive Report

<keysclub@bellsouth.net > wrote

>> He didn't say he strengthened anything. He said it would be weak if
>> Kerry
>> were running the show.

> All bush has shown is that he was willing to sacrifice Americans and a few
> planes and buildings.

All Kerry has shown is . . .

> Then he showed the world that, as a people, after ages of civilized
> enlightenment we could be conned into accepting the bombing of innocent
> woman and children in the name of Christ.

I think you're confused as to who is doing what. It is the Islamic
extremests that declared a holy war, not the Christians and, lest we confuse
things, Christians are only one part of what makes America great. The most
significant problem with terrorist attacks on the US is that they are tied
to a religion and, for that reason, are something we can't effectively
counter.

Lee




02 Nov 2004 06:02:08
H. Huntzinger
Re: Boynton Dive Report

"David Gintz" <d_gintzREMOVEALLUNDERSCORES@adel_ph_iaDOT_net > wrote:

> Glad to hear that Lynn is doing well and that the diving is still good down
> there. With our local water moving below the 50 degree mark, I'm beginning
> to think of making a trip down there to dive with you folks.

That's kind of the direction I was thinking of too. I've given away two
free tickets to my brother because I couldn't use them, but maybe in the
Feb/March timeframe. 70F is generally tolerable for a short time in a
1/4" Farmer John, as I can't take the ROV in checked baggage.

-hh


02 Nov 2004 14:36:10
mike gray
Re: Boynton Dive Report

H. Huntzinger wrote:
> "David Gintz" <d_gintzREMOVEALLUNDERSCORES@adel_ph_iaDOT_net> wrote:
>
>> Glad to hear that Lynn is doing well and that the diving is still good down
>> there. With our local water moving below the 50 degree mark, I'm beginning
>> to think of making a trip down there to dive with you folks.
>
> That's kind of the direction I was thinking of too. I've given away two
> free tickets to my brother because I couldn't use them, but maybe in the
> Feb/March timeframe. 70F is generally tolerable for a short time in a
> 1/4" Farmer John, as I can't take the ROV in checked baggage.
>
> -hh

Generally - viz is best that time of year but the weather is least
predictable. March or April, the temp will bottom out about 67 degrees,
but you'll see 63 below the thermoclines.

m



02 Nov 2004 21:35:26
Al Wells
Re: Boynton Dive Report

In article <uXMhd.825612$Gx4.547762@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net >,
scrubadub@att.net says...
> Generally - viz is best that time of year but the weather is least
> predictable. March or April, the temp will bottom out about 67 degrees,
> but you'll see 63 below the thermoclines.

I've seen 53 in June on the deeper wrecks, but in the 80's on top.


02 Nov 2004 17:42:28
Grumman-581
Re: Boynton Dive Report

"Al Wells" wrote ...
> I've seen 53 in June on the deeper wrecks, but in the 80's on top.

Lake Travis -- Heatstroke at the surface, hypothermia at around 60 ft...




03 Nov 2004 00:22:27
TonyP
Re: Boynton Dive Report

keysclub@bellsouth.net wrote:

> "TonyP" <arpierre@hooptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1bBhd.7961$6z2.3932426@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Now, voting for Bush.
>
>>I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that belives
>>in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
>>running the show.

> Please follow this and explain.

Ok...

> We know that no military unit can stand up to a nuclear blast.

True.

> While bush chose to go after an already beaten Iraq, his Pakistani allys
> supplied Korea and Iran with nuclear technology that is possibly and
> probably now turned into weaponry.

And able to deliver it how.

> How can you possibly say he has strengthened our military?

Did I say that? Or, are you trying to say I said something that I didn't
say to further your argument.

As you said "please follow this..."
>>I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that lives
>>in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
>>running the show.



03 Nov 2004 00:24:09
TonyP
Re: Boynton Dive Report

keysclub@bellsouth.net wrote:

> "Lee Bell" <leebell@ix.remove.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:65Dhd.16699$ta5.859@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>><keysclub@bellsouth.net> wrote
>>>>Now, voting for Bush.
>>>>I do have a list of complaints about him, but I am a person that believes
>>>>in a strong military, not a weak one we would have had if Kerry were
>>>>running the show.

>>>How can you possibly say he has strengthened our military?

>>He didn't say he strengthened anything. He said it would be weak if Kerry
>>were running the show.

True. Considering we do have Kerry's voting record.

> All bush has shown is that he was willing to sacrifice Americans and a few
> planes and buildings.
> Then he showed the world that, as a people, after ages of civilized
> enlightenment we could be conned into accepting the bombing of innocent
> woman and children in the name of Christ.

So, this is a Christian holy war now?

> All he has shown the world is our weakness, not what really makes America
> strong and great..

And what really makes America strong and great.