30 Jul 2006 12:55:13
ianandhelena
pre-marathon eating

if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!




30 Jul 2006 05:40:42
Al Bundy
Re: pre-marathon eating


ianandhelena wrote:
> if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
> would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!

I would eat dinner early the previous day and have breakfast AFTER the
marathon. It's just not cool to be taking a crap on the run.



30 Jul 2006 11:08:46
Re: pre-marathon eating

I have been there and done that. I would just not eat, or eat a very
light, well tested small snack on getting up. I have run 56 marthons
(2:34 in another era). I always like coffee. Everything should be
preteested. You are always more nervouseon race day and don't digest as
well also.
ianandhelena wrote:
> if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
> would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!



31 Jul 2006 05:00:24
Dan Stumpus
Re: pre-marathon eating


"ianandhelena" <xx > wrote

> if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
> would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!

Like Dale, I've run high 2:30s (in a prior era) with nothing more than a cup
of coffee for breakfast.

However, it seems that current knowledge says it's good to recharge your
liver's store of starch after the all-night fast. From what I've read, the
starch stored in the liver maintains your blood sugar level.

These days, I have 200 calories of mostly carbs no less than 2 hours before
a race (or 300 calories 3 hours before, etc), without problems. Of course,
you need to test this on shorter races and your long runs to make sure it
works for you. I run ultras, and these tend to start early (6:00 to 7:00)
around here, so yes, I do get up at 3:30 and eat a light breakfast.

-- Dan




31 Jul 2006 11:08:48
Doug Freese
Re: pre-marathon eating


"Dan Stumpus" <dstumpus_NOSP@mindspring.com > wrote in message
news:I7gzg.366$xp2.75@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>I run ultras, and these tend to start early (6:00 to 7:00) around here,
>so yes, I do get up at 3:30 and eat a light breakfast.

I eat a full blown pancakes, eggs, bacon/sausage about a hour before. No
way I can eat light before an ultra. I want oodles of calories in my
system.

As for a marathon, it's a personal experiment. I never had a problem
eating before albeit lighter then an ultra and never had needed a potty
stop. The obvious answer try it in a long training run.

-Doug




31 Jul 2006 10:48:43
Re: pre-marathon eating


ianandhelena wrote:
> if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
> would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!

When I do long runs (13 miles or longer) I have a bowl of cereal about
15-30 minutes before I leave.

For a 6 am marathon I'd probably be up around 5am (assuming I'm able to
exit where I'm staying and be at the start within 5 minutes).
Breakfast would be some sort of energy bar and something like
"Ultrafuel". The night before would be an extra big serving of
spaghetti and meatballs.

Andy



31 Jul 2006 16:24:54
rick++
Re: pre-marathon eating


ianandhelena wrote:
> if you were to take part in a marathon that started at 6 am, how/what/when
> would you have breakfast-i'm trying to avoid waking up at 3.30 am!

Practice eating on a couple of early runs before hand. You could have
surprises like
cramps or the runs if you dont know your body.



01 Aug 2006 04:50:02
Dan Stumpus
Re: pre-marathon eating


"Doug Freese" <dfreese@hvc.rr.com > wrote

> I eat a full blown pancakes, eggs, bacon/sausage about a hour before. No
> way I can eat light before an ultra. I want oodles of calories in my
> system.

Ack! I can literally hardly move after a meal. I mean like 2-3
minutes/mile slower than usual, and my heartrate won't get above
120...Apparently my bod says: You're digesting now, and that's that. Same
effect 4 hours after a big lunch, too.

I had a 1/2 peanut butter & jelly sandwich at mile 30 of a 50 miler once,
and I even had to walk the downhills for about an hour, and my heartrate was
like 115, and didn't want to get going...so I'm sensitive to how much food
is in me. 100 calories (with no more than 20% fat) every hour or so is no
problem, though.

If I were doing a 100, there's probably no problem, since 14 min/mile gets
you to 24 hours. That would let me warm up slowly and avoid the rush. But
12 minute miles at the beginning of a 50k (my typical race) will set me back
too much...




01 Aug 2006 09:46:40
Doug Freese
Re: pre-marathon eating


"Dan Stumpus" <dstumpus_NOSP@mindspring.com > wrote in message
news:_3Bzg.832$xp2.85@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Ack! I can literally hardly move after a meal. I mean like 2-3
> minutes/mile slower than usual, and my heartrate won't get above
> 120...Apparently my bod says: You're digesting now, and that's that.
> Same effect 4 hours after a big lunch, too.

First off, I intentionally start out slower for the first 3-4 miles but
it has nothing to do with the food but my method of easing into the race
while my system is adjusting. We know how inefficient out bodies are in
the first few miles and most of us do not do a warm up run before and
ultra. I have been eating like this for mucho years and as strange as it
sounds, it becomes a training method for my longer races. I also do this
with my training runs but prefer a few Egg Mcmuffins and an Oj from
Micky D's. With a pre-race breakfast, I hardly need to eat in a 50k. I
can get by with a few fig newtons or even cookies. So while those that
ate only a small pre-race meal in the beginning are walking to eat later
in the race, I'm cruising along. For 50 mile I have to eat a little
more during the race

> If I were doing a 100, there's probably no problem, since 14 min/mile
> gets you to 24 hours.

If 24 is a goal then fine to a point. My 100 a few weeks ago was
horrendously hot and yes I just snuck under 24. Until this race my times
are 20 and 21 hours which is a hair faster. If you did decide to jump up
to a 100, which I don't think is on your to-do list, you would need to
figure out how to consistenly eat or you DNF or walk every inch of the
last 30-40 and work on a 30 hour finish. Sooo, if you wanted to do a 100
AND a respectable time, you would have to overcome the food issue.

The 100 motto for most- eat much and eat early. What you haven't
experienced, or only a little, with the "shorter" ;) distances is
stomach problems. I would bet 80% or more experience severe stomach
issues in a 100 and nothing but nothing will go down and you have to
survive on what is already in your system plus the few calories you get
from a sport drink and that assumes the sport drink goes down and your
not relegated to water or water and coke.

> That would let me warm up slowly and avoid the rush. But 12 minute
> miles at the beginning of a 50k (my typical race) will set me back too
> much...

But I find I make that up significantly by not having to chomp on much
food later in the race when I'm working the pace.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to eat but just to offer my view of
how I skin the cat. As always, it's not a tactic to try for the first
time race day. ;)

-Doug




01 Aug 2006 07:21:35
Charlie Pendejo
Re: pre-marathon eating

Doug Freese wrote:
> We know how inefficient out bodies are in the first
> few miles and most of us do not do a warm up run
> before an ultra.

Except for DK, father of the easy 175 mile warmup jog.



01 Aug 2006 16:25:53
The Trailrunner
Re: pre-marathon eating



Doug Freese wrote:

> The 100 motto for most- eat much and eat early. What you haven't
> experienced, or only a little, with the "shorter" ;) distances is
> stomach problems. I would bet 80% or more experience severe stomach
> issues in a 100 and nothing but nothing will go down and you have to
> survive on what is already in your system plus the few calories you get
> from a sport drink and that assumes the sport drink goes down and your
> not relegated to water or water and coke.

And that is EXACTLY why it can't be assumed that a fast marathoner could
make the leap to a fast 100 miler. In fact, I would argue that just the
opposite *might* be true because at some point running too fast prevents
one from being able to digest/process the calories needed to sustain
that effort. The question is at what point/pace does that happen and
would that point for the Kenyans be faster than say Jurek who has
obviously found the balance of how fast he can run and still process.

--
- The Trailrunner

Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

Trails of the Diablo Valley
*Running - Hiking - Nature*
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/



01 Aug 2006 10:15:06
Re: pre-marathon eating


> And that is EXACTLY why it can't be assumed that a fast marathoner could
> make the leap to a fast 100 miler. In fact, I would argue that just the
> opposite *might* be true because at some point running too fast prevents
> one from being able to digest/process the calories needed to sustain
> that effort.

What you call "fast" and what would blow away the ultra runners might
not be fast at all to some marathoners.

>The question is at what point/pace does that happen and
> would that point for the Kenyans be faster than say Jurek

What's with the impulse to resort to the Kenyans? Monetary incentive
in place and Stefano Baldini would destroy all 50 mile and 100 records.
The Japanese would do that same thing.

It's not like it would take the Kenyans to show the Ultra crowd how
mediorce their fields and events are. Paula Radcliffe and Deena
Drossin....if they wanted to train for a 50 miler or 100 miler I have
no doubt would destroy the current crop out there. Let's be real.

In '05 Jurek won at age 31. The 2nd place finisher? 48 yr old, Third
place
finsher? 43 yr old, 4th place 46 yr old, 5th place 43 yr old, 6th
place 53, 7th place 48 yr old.

Jurek is a 31 year old competing against Masters for crissakes. He
has no competition. Understand that. I think he's a genius for seeing
the low fruit & easy pickings and taking it over.

The funny thing about this ng and the fringe ultra crowd here is they
never consider that the Kenyans might possibly be more suited to run
100 miles than 26.2 Ever think of that? Of course not....you want to
claim some mystical special-ness about the ultra runner..blah blah
blah...when at the end of the day it's basically old guys with time.



01 Aug 2006 18:45:08
Doug Freese
Re: pre-marathon eating


<lanceandrew@aol.com > wrote in message
news:1154452506.839301.244780@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> What's with the impulse to resort to the Kenyans? Monetary incentive
> in place and Stefano Baldini would destroy all 50 mile and 100
> records.
> The Japanese would do that same thing.
>
> It's not like it would take the Kenyans to show the Ultra crowd how
> mediorce their fields and events are. Paula Radcliffe and Deena
> Drossin....if they wanted to train for a 50 miler or 100 miler I have
> no doubt would destroy the current crop out there. Let's be real.

Nice troll but it's the same old crap based on YOUR opinion and no fact.
You are resorting to pure speed and as Trailman and myself have been
trying to tell you, but you seem to be deaf or trolling, speed can be a
hindrance and not allways a benefit. As usual you have no inkling of
what you say. I'd love to watch you fold up like a cheap umbrella in a
windstorm on a little pass ass 30K Escarpment and THEN you might see the
light.

-DF